/diy/ - Do It Yourself

What kind of shitty ass 3rd world country still uses tiles?

>>1445942
shithole countries

>>1445933
Tell your cuck friend to stop being a dumbass cuck and get stainless steel roofing panels

>>1445942
>>1445945
This is in the states. Your choices of slanted roofing for longevity are, in order of longest lasting first (assuming proper care is being done for the roofing.)

1: Slate (Peach Bottom being the best of all slates)
2: Terracotta Tiles
3: Glass
4: Metal
5: Thatch
6: Wood Shake
7: Asphalt

No wonder that contractors want you to use asphalt roofing.

>>1445948
It is okay, he ended up suing for damages.

>>1445942
still?
besides flat roofs there is no reason not to use tiles and its the goto method in every 1st world country

>>1445949
Sounds like your "friend" is full of shit, how did he prove to the court that the tiles weren't already broken? Did the faggot just happened to have a picture of the three tiles beforehand? Even if he did, no one is stupid enough to waste their time and god knows how many fucking $$$ in legal fees over three fucking ceramic tiles. Your friend is a cuck, fuck him

>>1445953
The fact there was no wear, grime, or other indication of it being broke for a long time. It was really obvious the breaks were fresh. The main thing was that he did have photos of him walking directly on the tiles. Things like this get settled out of court by lawyers anyway.

>>1445942
>>1445945
Americucks are funny since they pretend to be first world while building their houses out of wood sticks covered by drywall.

t.Actual first worlder who lives in a house made out of cinderblocks.

>>1445988
>Cindercucks
>First World

You aren't any better than the mutts yourself cuck

>>1445942
literally all of them, even the US does it, it's just that the US doesn't fasten theirs down

>>1445996
What's your house even made of?
Oh wait, you don't even have one. Keep on renting cucklord.

>>1445998
>you can't own property in places outside of the US
>houses weren't routinely made of stone or concrete even in the earlier-settled parts of the US

>>1445988
Poured concrete and steel, like it was meant to be done faggot

>>1446001
>gets triggered and insists someone must be renting if they say their house is made of cinderblocks

>lives in a "house" made out of poured concrete and steel, which is almost exclusively reserved for high-rises

the only one here living in a project or tenement is you m8

>>1446001
Nice larping faggot.

>>1445988
Slovakia isn't a first world country furendo

OP here.

Would /pol/ shits please fuck off.

>>1445949

Asphalt will still last 20+ years. Longer then some people own homes so it is a fine choice.

>>1446002
Are you fucking retarded?

>>1446004
Stay mad faggot

>>1446014
All the rest last longer.

>fine choice

Shit commercialism attitude.

>>1446012
You're a nigger.

>>1446000
>>you can't own property in places outside of the US
This is true.

>>1446012
t. cuckboi

>Family friend hires one of those siding/gutters/windows/doors scam places to put up some gutters.
>Lifetime Warranty
>Calls because gutter needs repair
>No answer
>Wife calls
>No answer
>Emails
>No answer
>Tell him I want to try something
>Call them
>"Hey, this is Anon, you guys did our gutters about 3 years back. We just love the job you did. We're having a little issue and need to get it fixed. While you are out, we would like a quote on getting the whole siding redone and a new patio door!"
>Calls back in like 3 minutes
>We'll have our guy out there today to quote out the new stuff.
>"Is he the one who will be fixing our gutters too?"
>No that is a different guy, I'll try to get him out there as soon as I can
>"Okay, well we have (larger competitor) coming out in a few days for a quote and they said they would be able to get the gutter fixed for free just for getting a quote from them."
>Let me see if I can get someone out there sooner
>I can get my best guy out there tomorrow to get it fixed and quote you.
>"Sounds great!"
>Guy arrives and it's me and family friend there
>Let me qet a quote started for you here and then we can see if I have time to fix your gutters
>"Actually fix those first my wife is on her way home and will be another 30 minutes due to traffic, she controls the pocket book!"
>Goes and fixes the gutters, and almost falls off the fucking ladder
>Okay lets get that quote going!
>"Oh, we actually already hired (competitor) we signed an agreement about 5 days after our second call to you that you never returned"
>guy gets visibly mad and says he's going to charge us for the labor and makes vague threats to us.

Real piece of shit "company". I'm also pretty sure that the guy who showed up was the owner and one of like 3 employees for the company.

>>1446173
just taking the time to appreciate this greentext. Nice story anon

>>1445933
It literally takes 2 mins to replace 3 tiles. And they shouldn't break that easy if he's stepping on them correctly.

>>1445933
>>doesn't use roof jacks and boards or ladder jacks and boards
>>actually walks directly on the tiles
Who the fuck uses boards on roofs? Never seen a tradie do this AND that sounds more dangerous than walking directly on the tyres.

You need to step on them in the correct manner too, or you will crack them.

>>1445933
this was my electrical box. it was a good old asbestos lined box from the 50s. i guess a bunch of circuits got added over the years.
>painters masking tape

>>1446000
>you can't own property in places outside of the US
Neither can you own property in the US. You just get title to the land granted from the state.

>>1446245
My mate rented a place with a fuse box like that.

>>1445942
>implying they dont last forever
personally i'd rather a metal roof
>ceramic
>longer lasting than laminated metal
a properly installed sheet roof that is maintained will last forever. pic related. we use "colorbond", it's the only choice in australia. it's several layers of steel, zinc, plastic and colored plastic laminate over the top. you never see it rusting. pic related is a test site.

>>1446248
man rentals here often still have the old fuses, no ground wires and shit held onto the box with electrical tape

>>1446252
What's worse is that a co-tenant got electrocuted by it. He was ok though.

>>1446249
clay tiles have a lifespan of 100+/- years, I dunno about you but I don't plan on getting a second roof, and I think they look better than metal

>>1446263
yeah they last forever, as much as stone last forever except they are fragile, lichen grows on them and eats them and they shift requiring you to shift tiles every so often as they block your valleys and gutters or shed chunks into them.sheet metal is as simple as just removing some roofing screws and lifting a panel up there. tiles are fucking heavy.

>>1446263
The tiles might last but good luck with the dry rot

>>1446249
>personally i'd rather a metal roof

Bad isolation it feels like you are in a pan under it, sure you can ad McIsolator but there is no need for it with organic materials like Tiles.

>>1445942
>What kind of shitty ass 3rd world country still uses tiles?

Nonburgers who know what they are doing.

>>1446014
>Asphalt will still last 20+ years. Longer then some people own homes so it is a fine choice.

Amerifat McContractor detected.
Its alaways better to go for long lasting since you can get better ROI by resale without doing stupid repairs of inferior technology that you shouldnt even have used the first place.

>>1445949
>1: Slate (Peach Bottom being the best of all slates)
>2: Terracotta Tiles

Im not familiar with slate, is it a different compound than Terracotta? more durable?

>>1446380
>ever not installing shit-tons of insulation regardless of roofing material

>>1446271
>tiles are fucking heavy.

which isnt a problem if your house isnt built via McConstructor method (Straya included, your framed houses are also crap)

>>1446381
>>ever not installing shit-tons of insulation regardless of roofing material

how else are McContractors going to make buck? just sell foam for every shitty cardboard wall you have + McMoisture blocked! Buy now and get one for just 99.99$/m2

>>1446230
3 tiles were obvious. Because someone walked all over the roof, the entire roof needed to be inspected by a professional. A lot more tiles were broken than just the 3 obvious ones. I think it was just under $2k in damages.

>>1446244
Sure thing, Cletus.

>>1446271
Glazed tiles have a layer of glass over them. Lichen and moss may grow on debris stuck to the tiles, but it can't harm the tiles.

>tiles are fucking heavy

That is what keeps them on the roof.

>>1446380
Slate is a type of flat stone. Slateroofing is amazing. Peach Bottom slate can last 100s of years. Other slates can last 75-150 years depending on how soft it is.

>>1446383
My neighbor built a McMansion. I watched it go up. IT looked like your image, only x 3 stories, 2 basement levels, and 100 more rooms. Oh, and the kicker was that they covered all that OSB with plastic wrap and 1 layer of brick.

Speaking of slate and tile. Contractors here drive around looking for houses with those then get the owners to switch to asphalt shingles. So, some roofer walking around on your slate or tiles is probably TRYING to break them on purpose in order to convince you to switch to "more durable" asphalt shingles. I know this because I worked for some roofers. They even had a guy with a hammer at the dumpster bashing up every tile or piece of slate so that no one could use it again. One of my bosses even said, "That fucking shit is really bad for business."

I've helped work with, repair, and install a few slate roofs. They are fucking awesome to work with, if you have the proper tools and knowledge. Though the slate is fucking heavy and can CUT YOU DEEP if you are an idiot. I've had to rip out Johnny DIYer's shit work and Billy Hick's contract disaster work on slate when the fuckers thought it was a good idea to caulk up the slate to fix leaks. One contractor guy, who installs metal roofing, said that when he repairs a slate roof he makes sure to, "face nail," because that causes those sections to wear out faster.

Working with contractors for the first half of my life really made me have a monumentally bad opinion of them.

>>1446390
>Slate is a type of flat stone. Slateroofing is amazing.

Thanks for pointing my to slate, so far its mostly used in NE, here in Croatia, its mostly terracota, very affordable also.

>>1446390
>Oh, and the kicker was that they covered all that OSB with plastic wrap and 1 layer of brick.

DISGUSTING and worst of all ultra labour intensive and lifespan of 10-20 years max + its cancer inducing (if glued plywood wasnt enough cancer inducing already). This all adds up to the plastic level of natural breathability of the house so you must also install a HVAC system, fancy that!

The level of total overbuilt type stupidity in american constructing I just cant understand, its a total scam (Im not saying this as some antiyank snob btw)

pic rel - local stone roofing and terracota. Stone roof is old and crappy but still serves a purpouse, look up house on the right, newer terracota tiles are glued with cement to prevent damage of strong coastal winds (house can handle the aditional weigh since stone masterrace)

>>1446394
>They even had a guy with a hammer at the dumpster bashing up every tile or piece of slate so that no one could use it again. One of my bosses even said, "That fucking shit is really bad for business."

there is so much scum in those contractors types. You can reuse a slate tile for at least 200 years.

>I've helped work with, repair, and install a few slate roofs. They are fucking awesome to work with, if you have the proper tools and knowledge.

+healthier for you to install
+you dont need special falmer tool to install that dark shit on pinewood

what is your opinion on putting cement with terracota tiles? In coastal croatia, people do that to ending tiles to prevent them being thrown around by heavy winds.

more shortlasting DOGSHIT

stone tiles, very durable, no roof framing needed

>he didn't use wooden shingles
The absolute state of modern roofing.

>>1446397
>what is your opinion on putting cement with terracota tiles?

In places where hurricane storms are a problem, I think wire was the better method, but I'm only familiar with only hanging. I one such system is, "storm lock", which uses wiring and hooks. I'd only ever use it in an area where there was in fact a huge problem with bad storms. I can see people using mortar to help the tiles hold on. I mean the options are a bit limited in bad storm areas. It just means more work when repairing leaks and such, but the roof is more apt to remain on during a storm.

>there is so much scum in those contractors types

I've only known 1 contractor who was on the up-n-up and not an ass trying to scam people. That is Joseph Jenkins. His company does slate roofs. I'm not sure if he still does the work himself, probably does. I saw him in the 1990s.

>>1446394
wtf is that guy on the pic doing, putting TAR on slate tiles? WHY?

>>1446411
>I've only known 1 contractor who was on the up-n-up and not an ass trying to scam people. That is Joseph Jenkins. His company does slate roofs.

are slate roofs installed differently than terracota? Terra has those notches that hook on beams shile Slate looks flat, does it need to be predrilled?

>>1446423
Slate requires that you knock out the holes using a special spiked hammer. You can't drill them or the hole shape is incorrect. They need that cone shape hole for the nails to be recessed into. Otherwise, the head of the nail will rub against the slate above it and cause leaks and/or breaks. While this image shows lots of tools for slate roofing, you really only need the slate ripper and the hammer for working the slate. The slate ripper is also used as the slate cutter. Ladder hooks and roof jacking is also required. Never ever walk on the slate, because it is fucking slick as snot and you'll break them which can also make you fall.

Seems Joe Jenkins has a youtube channel with lots of info on correct ways of doing slate and showing what mistakes are often made.

>>1446420
Ignorance or villainy.

>>1445988
>building you buildings out of stone
Metal is the best construction material, the only problem is signal absorption, and that can be solved by using the necessary equipment.

>>1446443
Thank you, this was very usefull info, Jenkins seems like an honest boss and guy who knows his trade.
so slate can only be installed to solid wood pannels? can in be installed on concrete roofs? Seems like a pretty complex job, that is why people prefer terra tiles.

>>1446448
>solid wood pannels

It should be on solid wood slats, not panels. Roofing is originally intended to be an open shell that protects from rain and sun heat. It needs high airflow to carry away ambient moisture and heat. More modern roofs that have enclosed attics with insulated roofing need to have wooden slats installed on the panels in order to install the slate, "properly". Slate is a really old building material and you shouldn't be mixing it with "modern" technologies since they don't mesh well together. Even using nails that are too long can cause water problems in areas with frost.

>>1446471
>More modern roofs that have enclosed attics with insulated roofing need to have wooden slats installed on the panels in order to install the slate, "properly".

that is what I was thinking since Ive saw few slate instalation on "modern" roofs - I tought it was about having a falt surface, but I guess they were working around that problem, not with it.

how was this >>1446397 slate (or granite?) roof installed, wooden slats? Is there a reason why tiles arent installed on steel slats other than speed of creating a roof?

>>1446471
>Roofing is originally intended to be an open shell that protects from rain and sun heat. It needs high airflow to carry away ambient moisture and heat.

this is universal. every good construction system is design that way - to sort of "work with the opossing elements" like stone foundations with gravel without concrete, insted of "musling them out" by methods such as McConcrete slab with McRebar

>>1445942
Fuck all wrong with tiles, you ignorant cunt.

>>1446249

Australia does love its tin.

But it's noisy when it rains. Concrete and clay tiles don't make a peep.

>>1446501
>how was this >>1446397 slate (or granite?) roof installed, wooden slats?

Yeah, most likely slats.

>why tiles arent installed on steel slats other than speed of creating a roof?

Cost more than likely. The some hurricane roofing systems for tile uses steel.

FYI, the roofing in your image are Scandinavian sod roof that uses sod and birch bark traditionally. Those last about 30 years in most places, but can last much longer in good conditions. They don't use any type of fastener to hold the birch bark in place on the sheathing boards.

>>1446514
Yeah, slate doesn't make noise either. It is like a dead zone during storms.

>>1446519
>The some hurricane roofing systems for tile uses steel.

steel roof frames with tiles or steel roof frames with tin?

>Those last about 30 years in most places, but can last much longer in good conditions. They don't use any type of fastener to hold the birch bark in place on the sheathing boards.

Ive never seen one IRL, why is that? Cheap, relativly reliable but noone uses it?

>>1446525
>steel roof frames with tiles or steel roof frames with tin?

http://www.storm-locktilefasteners.com/

>>1446525
>but noone uses it?

Modern versions are called a, "green roof." You'd see it more in Norway and places with high concentrations of Eco-friendly people.

>>1446531
>http://www.storm-locktilefasteners.com/

interesting system, but the plain ol bit of concrete on the ending tile to conect it with the roof is superior (if possible) like here>>1446396. Or simply adding a "step" from the roof for the last tile not to hang over the edge like pic rel

The hook system pressures the tile and the slats and adds complexity but I see how it might come in handy.

>>1445953
This. Imagine suing someone for 3$ worth of clay tiles

>>1446617
See: >>1446390

There are a lot of bad contractors out there that give us a bad name. However, there are so many customers that are straight up dickheads. Usually people from the middle east. I've never had a problem with a white customer. There are no blacks here so I don't know what they're like. But the middle easterners are constantly looking for some bullshit to use as a means of knocking the price down and they are ruthless with it. Wont back down worth a shit until you physically intimidate them, which I don't like to do.

That said, I take pride in my work. Once in a while a customer will point out some really minor bullshit and I'll usually fix it up as long as it's fairly reasonable request (i.e if I put in a bunch of new drywall and butt it up to existing drywall that looks like trash compared to the new stuff because the last guy that put it on couldn't mud for shit, I'll do a skim coat over the old stuff even though it wasn't in the contract).

>>1445988
Uhh...mate the houses are framed with sticks but have brick covering it, as well as poured concrete reinforced with iron rebar among other things. It's not as good as europe but I think the meme's are going to your head.

>>1446702
>blame the customer redirection /pol/ post

This is why you are shit.

>>1446394
What the hell is this guy doing? I'd normally be triggered that he has no safety gear but I hope he fucking falls and is crippled for the rest of his goddam life. FUCK

>>1446531
what do one of these bad boys cost compared to steel roof?

>>1446713
Yo have no fucking idea what you're talking about, mate. Getting into this business is what caused me to realize there are in fact differences in races and cultures. You've clearly you've never done residential contract work. Not all middle easterners are like this, hindus are pretty chill. It's the muslims really that get all fucky. Every god damn time they'll insist something was in the contract that we didn't do or something wasn't in the contract that we did do (not paying for it, not in contract my friend) then you show them the contract they fucking signed and they try to act like I forged the shit. I have all kinds of examples.

>>1446731
Keep this shit in /pol/ where it belongs.

>>1446702
>>1446731
>thread about bad contractors
>triggered contractor posts about customers and /pol/ shit in thread instead

Booo

>>1446736
>noticing patterns makes me a /pol/tard

naw, mate.

>>1446739
The point I was making is that sometimes the shit stories you hear about are just shit customers looking to scam. There are plenty of shit contractors, though. I'll give you that.

>>1446736
>>1446731
he's right. it's not race, it's culture. Middle easterners and native chinese are FAR more likely to try and get free work, wiggle out of paying, scam you or just dick you around. Jews and hindus are much more passive aggressive, if they feel like you fucked them, they will report your next jobsite, leave bad reviews, talk mad shit about you.

Rich people are BY FAR THE WORST customers of all. they never read the contract, never hear the word no, entitled as fuck (had a guy ask me to get him a soda- I'm an audio installer), have zero respect for you, will blatantly disrespect everyone around them and can and will throw lawyers at you until they get bored.

>>1446747
>>1446742
This thread is about bad contractors.

>>>/pol/

>>1446394
>hey even had a guy with a hammer at the dumpster bashing up every tile or piece of slate so that no one could use it again. One of my bosses even said, "That fucking shit is really bad for business."

That fucking retard was lighting money on fire. Slate goes for $2-300/square, if he stockpiled those tiles and resold them he would have walked away with an easy extra $6k per job

>>1446761
>found the muslim jewing contractors

>>1446845
The hammer guy would get fired if he tried that. The boss wouldn't do that because it is money down the drain in the future.

>>1446747
I work for a utility company
The infrastructure in rich neighborhoods is the shittiest. The people are always shits to you. They block our access to easement physically and legally, and even when you work directly for them, theyvare still shits to you.

>>1446249

>you never see it rusting.

Why would it rust if you don't even know what rain looks like?

>>1446887
kek

>>1446506

>by methods such as McConcrete slab with McRebar

While I understand the aim of your statement.

It is much easier to lift some tracks to regrade a sleeper base than it is to lift a house to rectify some settling.

>>1446173
Lmfao!! Nice play anon!!

>>1446851
because they are all retard tier trash. Hell, you could probably recycle the broken slate for more than the cost of a dumpster. idiots like that deserve to die poor and stupid.

I have to call a roofing company tomorrow for an estimate from storm damage. I basically go to yelp and call people with 50 or more good reviews. Are there better ways to find good people?

I’m avoiding the door to door storm chaser guys

>>1446710
>the houses are framed with sticks but have brick covering it, as well as poured concrete reinforced with iron rebar among other things

that is the joke, you COVER pine framing with brick instead of making it a foundational wall.
McConcrete + McRebar2000 is a horrible foundation. Only reason they do it is because its faster for them than making proper foundation with stone or just gravel - its not even more expensive in the end.

>>1446897
>It is much easier to lift some tracks to regrade a sleeper base than it is to lift a house to rectify some settling.

yes, but that is not the reason they use gravel, if they used concrete, it would brake under trains weight - gravel absorbes pressure with a light flex - possibly even makes train ride softer.

>>1446710
>>1446897
Earth moves constatnly and McConcrete breakes (since McConcrete can resist pressure, but not stretching), McRebar gets wet with time and enhances braking of McConcrete.
stone foundations are "flexible" and cant get wet since alpha male masterrace that is why they last so long.

>>1446958
>>1446957
That is the trick with longevity

all materials need to have similar physical property's
for example a house from bricks with lime mortar is going to last forever because lime mortar and bricks have similar stretch and flex.
now that house gets repaired with cement mortar because its faster and cheaper and the repaired wall is going to get many cracks because concrete is much harder than lime and harder than the bricks.

same with timber construction houses which wood survived the rain for more years than the USA is old get a new coat of paint.
the people use new latex waterproof extra chemical paint and the wooden beams are compost after 20 years.

why? because MC Paint is going to get a small crack and traps moisture behind it and because its water tight it can never leave the wood until your house collapses.

>>1446984
>That is the trick with longevity
>all materials need to have similar physical property's

exactly, but historically all materials used used to have a simialr degree of flex - bricks, stone foundation, wooden beams, steel beams, tile roofs...all of them are either flexible or MODAL, in the end all act flexible on impact and allow for modal repairs (similar to PC vs android with integrated batery repairs).
Mind you that McMansions arent the only McConstruction system, brutalism is also a version of McConstruction that has only a slightly longer lifespan compared to cheap wood framing - Croatia is full of those abominations full of concrete that look like crap after 30 years, sure, more fireproof etc, but not much different than a McMansion.

>the people use new latex waterproof extra chemical paint and the wooden beams are compost after 20 years.

many such cases. Sad!
What is the best way to treat wood - beeswax/natural wood resin? How did they used to do it?
Similar effect is with wood making when you combine wood and screws insted of mortise tenon systems - screws stress the wood to much and destroy it. If done properly, there is no reason why a wooden roof or floor wouldnt last a few centuries.

>>1446993
>What is the best way to treat wood - beeswax/natural wood resin? How did they used to do it?

You don't treat them. You select the proper type of wood then allow it to breath while keeping water off it.

>>1447015
>You don't treat them. You select the proper type of wood then allow it to breath while keeping water off it.

mind=blown.

I always thought they need some natural lacquer or smth as do people do for furniture. Another issue is that qualtiy wood is hard to find so people lacquer it by default, this is the first time someone suggested to me a nontreatment of wood

>>1447015
>while keeping water off it.

another question, how did they used to build war ships out of wood then, they must have gotten some kind of treatment

>>1447049
Treatment with saltwater

>>1447059
>saltwater

that stuff rots steel for breakfast, even stone isnt immune to it. They must have picked their wood wiser or smth

>>1447025
Treated wood normally rots. The only exception is when there is a water leak that isn't taken fixed. The treated wood will outlast the untreated wood in that scenario.

>>1447049
>ships

Hot pitch, but that was mostly for sealing the cracks. Interior wood uses boiled linseed oil, but not the outside. Again, proper wood selection is key, "teak, totara and some cedars." Still there's tons of methods all over history. It is completely different when you have wood sitting in water 24/7 instead of under a dry roof 24/7. Ships still get rebuilt. A roof only needs rebuilt if a storm peels roofing off or causes a leak you haven't noticed for 6+ months.

>>1447082
>It is completely different when you have wood sitting in water 24/7 instead of under a dry roof 24/7.

True, but for snowy weater I think ocasional treatment is advisable. Dick Proenneke used to treat his wooded tools with Shellac, but nothing is still better than waterproof poly based paint

>>1447049
I think the larger worry was ship worms and barnacles.

At least with some British ships of the line a lot of em had a copper sheeting on the water line and were generally painted.

>>1447085
>tool handles

Are not wood resting under dry roofs.

>>1447172
>Are not wood resting under dry roofs.

Proenneke put Shellac on his walking snow skis made out of wood

>>1445933
when people complain about contractors - you mean anyone who would be working on my roof, right? They are all contractors.

>>1447211
I think you misunderstand. You keep referencing other uses for wood when those uses are incomparable to the discussion of wood used to support roofing. Coating on skis, made of wood, help reduce friction and wear on the skis.

>>1445988
So I assume you build your houses out of fucking titanium?

>>1445933
This happened because you have weak / light weight tiles.
We don't even touch roofs if the tile weight is below 9 lbs, and if the roof was built / reroofed in the last 100 years, this isn't a problem.

Houses in america are held to pretty specific engineering standards, in fact having tiles that crack easily could be illegal depending on how picky the local fire department is

>>1447676
>Houses in america are held to pretty specific engineering standards

This is utter bullshit. Oh wait, I forgot, contractors lobbied for those "standards" so that the houses would need repair sooner than traditional building methods and materials. LOL LOL LOL

>>1447678
[citation needed]
and
>he doesn't know how to engineer
Even Massachusetts requires 3d models of attics to run simulations / tests on, and prefab trusses are stupidly strong. Combine that with some proper curved tiles and your golden for a hundred years or more before you have to dish out a $1000 for a new roof (which isn't a lot of shekels here).

>b-but look at my stone house!!
Do euros know about seismic categories?

>>1447676
>Houses in america are held to pretty specific engineering standards

ayy lmao, african mudhut is actually technologically superior (by thermal and durability variables) to McConstruction

>>1447681
>>b-but look at my stone house!!
>Do euros know about seismic categories?

stone is good for earthquakes, especially stone foundations

>>1446993
>If done properly, there is no reason why a wooden roof or floor wouldnt last a few centuries.

Quick, name some woods that can withstand full sun and rain exposure for a few centuries

>>1447063
>even stone isnt immune to it.

Fun fact, roman concrete gains density in sea water

>>1446984
>why? because MC Paint is going to get a small crack and traps moisture behind it and because its water tight it can never leave the wood until your house collapses.

FYI paints and coatings can be water proof but vapor permeable. But yeah, if its not vapor permeable it will not dry.

>>1447804
Petrified Wood

>>1447806
>roman concrete gains density in sea water

redpill me on Roman Concrete, why dont we still use it if its so superior?

>>1447804
>name some woods that can withstand full sun and rain exposure for a few centuries

Slate roof over timber!

>>1447824
>redpill me on Roman Concrete, why dont we still use it if its so superior?

The recipe was lost and was only recently reverse engineered. I'm sure concrete researchers know how to make a godly mix but it may not be economic and it's hard to justify building anything to last thousands of years. Hell even national monuments and memorials might only be relevant for hundreds.

>Slate roof over timber!
So what we would call a "slate roof" and not a "wood roof".

>>1447824
>roman concrete
because it requires a supply of volcanic ash and Portland cement is easier to obtain

>>1447804
>Quick, name some woods that can withstand full sun and rain exposure for a few centuries
>>1447819
>>1447832
>So what we would call a "slate roof" and not a "wood roof".

the answer is Shou Sugi Ban - burnt wood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfdV031I_F0

>>1447835
>because it requires a supply of volcanic ash and Portland cement is easier to obtain

it breaks my heart knowing that historical stone buildings are probably repaired by basic cement leading to destruction of masonry

>>1447804
Whatever they use for the gates in Japanese shrines

>>1447837
>the answer is Shou Sugi Ban - burnt wood

80-100 years, and that may describe floors and walls protected with overhang

>>1447837
>the answer is Shou Sugi Ban - burnt wood
Soft wood with a layer of porous as shit char on it lasting centuries on an exposed surface? Weeaboo fucking fantasy.
>it breaks my heart knowing that historical stone buildings are probably repaired by basic cement leading to destruction of masonry
They could just use fly ash instead.

>>1447804

800 years good enough for you, newfag?

>>1447882

pic for ants fails. try again big guy.

>>1447886

>>1447891

american grillers lol. check out this motor

>>1447886

Urnes stave church built out of treated pine 1130 AD, stupid

>>1447893
>american grillers

they were the peak of humanity, after the greeks maybe

>>1447894

I don't know what you mean. probably not american. discarded.

>>1447894
>Urnes stave church built out of treated pine 1130 AD, stupid

ok, I think I get it. the pic for ants was really old. ok, apology for you and your tiny pic

>>1447886
>>1447889
HNGHHH!

Those stone houses are nice, but Im more interested in wood,brick,mud (?) combo of that street pic. What is that kind of build called? How is the isolation compared to stone, that isnt a good isolator?

>>1447894
>Urnes stave church built out of treated pine

pre-burnt pine?

>>1447025
>>1447015
>>1446993
i think for mortise tenon you have to diverse were the wood is used

in the inside it was either left natural eg under a roof. or painted with with wash to match it to white walls

outside a big key was to keep water off the wood.

and im not sure if it was for rain protections but many houses here have their timbers painted red brown blue etc.
which was ideally done with boiled linseed oil containing pigment.

sadly nowadays many houses get mistreated with acyl or latex paint because its cheep, dries fast, needs one coat, etc
no painting contractor wants to send a week painting a wall letting the linseed oil dry and adding multiple layers.

>>1447085
>but nothing is still better than waterproof poly based paint
and what happens to the moisture inside the wood and entering through cuts and lithe micro cracks

>>1447898
these are called Half-timbering.
the filling is either Brick or Stone, Wooden stakes with clay and straw, or woven branches covered in clay.

insulation seems to be as bad as stone its probably faster warm but also faster cold again after the fire is out, than stone.

the problem is that modern insulation is a death sentence for half timber houses, beams 500years old rot and crumble after 20years if there insulated.

noways there are more and more company that provide "old" solutions again like clay infused with insulating material.
pic one of the oldest half timber framing in Germany build 1266 at this time America was not even discovered.

>>1448129
also look at this fat fuck sometimes i wonder how they managed to build such things.

>>1447804
so my town had a wooden bridge wich was constructed by the Romans
wooden beams found underwater in the 1970 showed to be cut in 85 yes 85AD

and said bridge build in 85AD lasted until around 1300 when it was destroyed by ice. which means that its timbers lasted over 1200years.


just think of it the people in the early middle age that used this bridge daily and maintained it probably didn't knew who the Romans even were.

Timber they found deepening the river where the bride was located. without that bridge this city wouldn't probably exist.

>>1448129
>the problem is that modern insulation is a death sentence for half timber houses, beams 500years old rot and crumble after 20years if there insulated.

its funny how complex creating houses becomes once the bar is raised at it lasting half a millenia, on the other hand, I dont think that
modern isolation can even last more than 50 years, God know what happens to it from all the moisture after that span.

>noways there are more and more company that provide "old" solutions again like clay infused with insulating material.

I like this, do you have any pic of modern+old solution, that are free of that disgusting and cancer inducing polyester/poly foam etc.

will a double wall - stone out, clay inside work good for isolation?

>>1448117
>and im not sure if it was for rain protections but many houses here have their timbers painted red brown blue etc.

I doubt that was for functionality

>>1448120
>and what happens to the moisture inside the wood and entering through cuts and lithe micro cracks

it creates a vacum at first and then its all good since air cant get it (overbuilt system like McRebar), problem is that all OverbuiltTM isnt intelligent solution since you only need a small crack for water and then microbes to enter and start rotting it - then the OverbuiltTM closed system works agaisnt you since water cant get out.

All good construction is intelligent, kind of judo design - embracing the stress of the earth and elements insted of attacking it head on.

>>1448131
>also look at this fat fuck sometimes i wonder how they managed to build such things.

totally mental! stone foundations and 1st floor stone without McConcrete but only masonry + wood and clay for other is the solution for long lasting

>>1447898
>>1448129
German here. They're called "Fachwerkhaus" (single) or (Fachwerkhäuser" (plural) which translates roughly into "Truss House".

Because they're houses made with trusses. It's a beautiful language really.

>>1448136
>just think of it the people in the early middle age that used this bridge daily and maintained it probably didn't knew who the Romans even were.

its totally crazy how wrong we are doing so many things.
Modern methods have their place (not everything has to last long), but you see in simple design of furniture how bad we understand material properties - pic rel drawer has no screws so steel crews cant rot it from the inside, that is why it can last for 100-200 years.

>>1448161
>They're called "Fachwerkhaus"

It would be so cool to make modern designed houses with those old school last a millenia methods insted of using cancerous isolation.

>>1447839
High density wood and paint. That thing has been repainted thousands of times by now.

>>1447681
>Even Massachusetts requires 3d models of attics to run simulations / tests on

Maybe in one of the cities. I know a few people that have houses built who didn't need to jump through such hoops.

>>1448163
>It would be so cool to make modern designed houses with those old school last a millenia methods insted of using cancerous isolation.

Or we just use modern science to make something better. Just because we design for short lifespan doesn't mean that's all we can do.

We can make modern porous mineral insulation without making it out of fibre (which forces you to either make it biodegradable or cancerous). We generally don't bother because biodegradable fibre works well enough for the design life and is far superior in insulation to anything old school.

>>1447839
Don't the monks actually tear these down and rebuild them regularly as part of tradition?

>>1447085
If you know so much about dick you should know he didn't treat the wood in his shack? The closest you get was him closing the end grain of timber so it would dry slower. But that was before building and was cut off when he finished the building.

>>1448192
Nope, that specific one is from the mid 16th century.

>>1448187
Are you not describing mineral wool?

>>1448129
>the problem is that modern insulation is a death sentence for half timber houses, beams 500years old rot and crumble after 20years if there insulated.

Yeah it's so sad. Drove by a torn down house yesterday, guy told me it was built in 1998. Amazed it lasted so long. I wish I could see houses built in the 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s. Oh wait those are all common and insulated because you're a fucking retard.

Rotting happens when you fuck with vapor barriers, which has only become a problem since spray foam insulated has made air tightness possible and builders are taking it to extremes.

>>1446173
Phew anon, you've got balls of steel.

This thread is giving me nightmares....how could people be so crooked and fucked up?

Don't they have families and shit? Don't they have a conscious?

Yuck!

>>1448216
Shit, we missed one. Someone fuel up the Enola Gay, it's time to finish the job.

>>1448251
It's actually right outside Hiroshima so you tried and failed mate..

>>1448235
>This thread is giving me nightmares....how could people be so crooked and fucked up?

contractors are lightweight scammers, real scam is the entirety of modern construction - from architects, builders, to the idiots that support it by buying such unfunctional and shortlasting crap

>>1448163
>drawer has no screws
How is the handle attached?

>>1448598
Probably a nut and bolt

>>1448598
Dovetail joint

>>1448607
JB weld

>>1448598
Super Glue

>>1445933
>storm comes by
>blows off a few asphalt tiles
>gonna be 600 for some dude to come out and fix them

Should I just do this shit myself?

>>1449040
yes

>>1448226
Mineral wool is fibrous, that's why it fucks you up (silicosis and cancer) if it's not biosoluble.

>>1446958
>constatnly
>breakes
>braking
retard detected

>>1448216
>>1448174
I hear Japanese planes are super sharp and if you plane wood with it, it'll result in a surface so smooth that it'll actually repel water.
Don't know if they managed to achieve planes that damn sharp by the 16th century though.

>>1446958
>he doesn't live in a desert and has to worry about moisture

>>1446396
Our weather is far worse than europe. You can't live without AC in most states here.

>>1446396
>This all adds up to the plastic level of natural breathability of the house so you must also install a HVAC system, fancy that!

I knew building envelopes were a scam to make us live comfortably grrr

Currently seeking a contractor to install ~800 sq of vinyl siding as well as soffits, fascia, etc. before winter...currently have t-111 siding.

After reading this entire thread, im still not sure, what should i be looking out for?

Also, since yall seem so up on materials science, please shit all over vinyl siding as a concept. Thanks.

>>1446958
>when they lay a thick plastic membrane then just lay the rebar ontop of it and pour in the concrete

>>1449736
you're better off paying a renderer to just install cementboard and hit it with a shotcrete gun or at least get cementboard weatherboard. vinyl is terrible. cannot be refinished. so idk its ok if you just want to replace your cladding in 10 years

>>1449736

it works but you're fucked if it wasn't installed properly, you'll never know about the rot until your wall falls in, and replacing it is a bitch if it's older than 10 years, since nobody will have the same colors.

beats the living shit out of your hardboard gimp crap siding for sure.

>>1449738
>when they don't do anything and pour 4 inches of concrete on dirt

>>1449736
Vinyl is offensive but if its what you can afford you're gonna go with it

I'd youtube how to install that shit and make sure it's being done right

Other than that maybe you should consider doing a housewrap like tyvek or a competitor when you have the house naked. Would a house wrap be better than just doing better siding? Don't know.

>>1446118
Technically you don't really own property in the US either.. I don't feel like getting into the legal mumbo jumbo but if you really read into laws and such. The US government has so many loopholes and bullshit that they technically own the citizens here too.

>>1446249
metal roofs are more popular in the northeast and midwest because of the snow. keep in mind america has every possible climate, so different roofs are needed in different areas.

>>1449429
aight, thanks

>>1449684
>>1449714
>Our weather is far worse than europe. You can't live without AC in most states here.

look up thicc walled dalmatian stone house and hot summers (or those native american houses), trick is to have a thicc wall and terracota on top (plastered roof is horrible for anything other than waterproofness) - its so cool in the summer you dont even need an AC. Money saver in the end.

>>1449736
>Also, since yall seem so up on materials science, please shit all over vinyl siding as a concept. Thanks.

You have to do smth, so do vinyl siding. You have the house you are, you cant change it completly, but if McContractors were thinking in advance, you wouldnt have to make investments so often.

Also, I have no idea about vinyl siding, It doesnt sound cheap, how long does it last? Have you considered shou sugi burnt wood fasade?

>>1447063
Wooden pegs and copper/brass nails were used. On ship's where they cheaped out and used iron/steel fastenings, 'iron rot' sets in.

>>1449830
>Also, I have no idea about vinyl siding, It doesnt sound cheap, how long does it last?

It lasts a long time and never needs to be painted so you save many thousands of dollars in the long run. Pressure wash it every five or ten years. The only downside to vinyl siding is that it looks like cheap plastic. Around here (NC), there are some upper class developments that are 100 % vinyl siding, so the stigma is going away, sorta.

>>1446008
Nazdar

>>1445942
>What kind of shitty ass 3rd world country still uses tiles?
Countries who, unlike USA, have historical buildings, and countries who have people who know what style is.

>>1449830
>look up thicc walled dalmatian stone house and hot summers (or those native american houses), trick is to have a thicc wall and terracota on top (plastered roof is horrible for anything other than waterproofness) - its so cool in the summer you dont even need an AC.

I didn't even have to get to "McContractors" to know who you are, because no one else says shit this retarded

Stone has good thermal mass. That means it can absorb a lot of sunlight before getting hot. There's still one problem though.

The air is still hot and convects into your house. Your primitive air ventilated house can never be cooler than any outdoor shaded area. Just because primitive cultures survived in this climate without AC doesn't mean their dwelling temperatures were comfortable. You would shit yourself and leave if you ever felt an American desert.

>>1449854
>there are some upper class developments that are 100 % vinyl siding, so the stigma is going away, sorta.

We all know it, America has a tolerance culture and eventually every debasement is accepted. Surprised we don't have trailer mansions yet.

>>1450342
not him, but american deserts also get cold as fuck at night at which point all the heat built up in that thermal mass is dank af. in fact if there is any place where such a dwelling would be appropriate it would be there. contrast this to say the southeast where it doesn't get cold at night just more humid. such a dwelling would be terrible.

>>1450343
Never heard of double wides?

>>1450343
>trailer mansions

we have those. They're pretty awesome for about 20 years.

>>1450367
>American deserts also get cold as fuck at night

>Storms forming Thursday afternoon over Gila County east of metropolitan Phoenix were expected to move west overnight, but no storms were expected to make it to Phoenix.
>A "very warm" low temperature of 95 degrees is expected overnight, Wilson said.

You need to qualify that statement, because where I'm from they used to sleep under wet blankets at night to stay cool.

So while deserts do get cold at night due to the lack of moisture in the air, there are times where it just plain sucks to live in the desert. eg: July August

>>1450342
>>1450367
>not him, but american deserts also get cold as fuck at night at which point all the heat built up in that thermal mass is dank af.

finally somehow who gets the McConstruction skeme.

Another thing with thicc stone walls, you often build the house in a way that its build INTO ground - on a slope or deep basement, so the deep foundations get cooler and with that big thermal mass the whole stone house (speaking about areas that get 38 celsius in summer), with alpine house its different - upper floors are never stone but wood so it isolates the cooler basement.

AC + expensive plastering is overengeneering and underthinking. AC has a place in every house, but if you depend on it to cool the house smth is not right.

>>1450547
oh shit, I posted a veneer wall!

here, is that a slate roof?

>>1450547
>finally somehow who gets

87 at midnight, 83 degrees at 5 am the coolest it will ever be, and the high never broke 100 because it's partly cloudy

>Another thing with thicc stone walls, you often build the house in a way that its build INTO ground

Ground is cooler than summer air and warmer than winter air for any type of house. The thermal and moisture performance would be even better if you used a modern insulated concrete or block walls instead of trying to use thermal mass to heat your house on winter nights and buffer the sun on summer days. When you use very little electricity you can just net zero with solar panels.

>with alpine house its different - upper floors are never stone but wood so it isolates the cooler basement.

Why have you tangentially leaped to wood houses now? Oh yeah, because you can't shut your whore mouth when men are talking. A log cabin has an R value of about 8. This is a fucking terrible idea. Not only are logs good enough to survive the moisture expensive, heating costs will continue to buttfuck you forever. Also why would anyone want an antique basement that allows cold air under the house.

We have modern wall systems that will survive a heated indoor swimming pool at a ski resort. There isn't a poor punishing condition on planet earth than warm moist air vs cold moist air

https://buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-055-in-the-deep-end

>AC + expensive plastering is overengeneering and underthinking.

Never say expensive again ever. You're not allowed because you don't understand that energy and scarce natural materials have a high cost. Your place is in the kitchen.

>plastering

You don't know what this words means. Stop using it.

>AC has a place in every house

Expensive in homes with low R-value, useless in homes with a high air exchange rate

>but if you depend on it to cool the house smth is not right.

No everything is fine except you're still posting in building threads.

>>1450585
Tok kek rekt

>>1450547
>AC is overengineering
>3 foot thick stone walls isn't

shut the fuck up lol

>>1450585
>A log cabin has an R value of about 8. This is a fucking terrible idea.

and what is stopping your spraying that cancerous shit on the walls of a log cabin to increase thermal properties? you already do that with a mcmansion so why cant you do it with a log house.

Last time I checked people lived in log houses in Alaska and didnt complain, but suddenly you need a McContractor to destroy the wood with shitty isolation.

>Not only are logs good enough to survive the moisture expensive,

why shouldnt logs survive moisture? if you allow it to breather by not putting idiot laquer it can go up to 1000 years.

>heating costs will continue to buttfuck you forever. Also why would anyone want an antique basement that allows cold air under the house.

to have a basement, to have a long lasting house with deep foundations, to build smth long lasting instead of a McMansion.

>wat? a wooden building with stone underneath?
>no McSlabbing and stands still for centuries? It must have some hidden McRebar
>no way that thing can survive without McWaterproof laque
>how do you mean it doesnt have tar flamed all over the roof? how else would it survived more than 20 years?
>Its probaly built in a mild climate to survive all the elements

>>1446411
Holy fuck I rember that, it's Warsaw, Ochota Rakowiec. I live next block. :0

>>1445949

>Cedar shakes lasting longer than asphalt

Maybe if you live in the desert...

>>1450668
>and what is stopping your spraying that cancerous shit on the walls of a log cabin to increase thermal properties? you already do that with a mcmansion so why cant you do it with a log house.

I don't know if directly spraying insulation directly on logs is a good idea or best practice. But the point of your question is probably what's wrong with insulating existing log cabins. There's two answers.

1) Nothing
2) You'll complain about it and say it's going to rot the wood

>but suddenly you need a McContractor to destroy the wood with shitty isolation.

Right on time

Also I was criticizing log cabins as new construction because that's the retarded idea you advocate all the time.

>why shouldnt logs survive moisture?

Most logs won't. You need the right type of tree, then you need old growth with lots of heartwood. You also need money to grow on these trees.

>if you allow it to breather by not putting idiot laquer it can go up to 1000 years.

Yes I totally forgot wood can survive in freeze thaw conditions for 1000 years if you don't apply a particular wood finish no one has ever put on a log cabin.

>to have a basement, to have a long lasting house with deep foundations, to build smth long lasting instead of a McMansion.

This is almost a haiku

>>1445933
>Need new siding.
>Go to commercial builder supply store and ask counter guys for advice on who would be fair contractor.
>Give us the name of a fireman that does this work on the side.
>Sounds good .jpg
>Sign 15,000 buck contract after he says he will oversee everything.
>Fireman sends out a work crew of guys he hired in front of home depot.
>They have the tools and ladders to do the work but could care less of craftsmanship.
>Studs what studs? They use air tools and the pattern down the outside walls look like snakes where they hit or miss anchoring in the Hardy planks.
>They tell me the contract does not include house wrap so i go out and buy it for them to use.
>I come back three days latter and only 10 feet of a roll was even used and most of the siding is done.
>Call up fireman and the next day he shows up with a bunch of firehouse buddies.
>he lies and says they used his house wrap but there is none on site.
>He and his buddies do one wall of the house and they miss more studs then the guys off the street, using my house wrap.
>The guys off the street do the roof also and use 2 nails per 4 nail shingle but I did not notice that until after we paid him.
>I used 2 thousand nails myself so the shingles would not fall off in a strong wind.
>firemen can be dicks.

>>1451664
>Forgot there is more...roof leaks into 2000 dining room table where they left exposed nails on the roof vents.
>8 years latter the hardy plank siding is rotting away where it butts up against the roofing with out the required gap to keep it from rotting.
>fuck me,.

>Worked alongside the same plumbing company on multiple projects and with two separate companies as an electrician myself.
>Pulte job and Im at first company
>plumbers are doing pressure check during our rough
>they plug for the kitch sink pops
>floods first floor until they come out and plug it
>pops again
>call them again
>pops again
>call them again
>popped three times in one day, different plumber replaced the plug each time

>go to new company
>same plumbers, like i said earlier
>doing pressure check
>plug pops, pours probably 300 gallons of water directly onto my foremans battery bag
>bag has about $4,000 in milwaukee batteries, mostly 9.0s and 6.0s
>still havent replaced batteries despite saying they would

>>1451683

Actualy, come to think of it....the first company I worked at was a bad contractor

>be november in chicagoland area
>building house
>company couldnt afford to buy service on time
>service is set late
>comed doesnt hook it up cause we were late and missed the slot
>no power for the entire rough
>3-4 inches of standing water in the basement of a brand new house because sump pump cant be live cause aint no power
>not even worth it to pump out with generator
>literally piping in 3 inches of standing water
>cant bend any pipe on the floor cause water getting in pipe, but also the way water bends light plays tricks on the eyes

This wasnt the only time this happened. I distinctly remember a house Pulte sold that had standing water in the basement for 3 months. Niggas was PAINTING THE UPSTAIRS AND THERE WAS WATER IN THE BASEMENT

>>1451690

>be building ryan homes
>faggots dont even do plywood for exterior walls in jurisdictions that dont require them too
>literally use that particle fiber board shit thats kind of like thick cardboard as an exterior wall
>all the trades accidentally poking holes in it the entire time

Also

>be at shitty company
>Toll Brothers job
>carpenters leave TGIs out in the rain then sun then rain then more sun then just a shot of rain to let everyone know their pros
>basement TGIs start growing black mold
>Toll Brothers sold a brand new house that already had black mold
>driving nail straps with my hammer and literally knocking mold onto my face

>>1451695

>be me
>be like 2nd month apprentice
>all the green and cheap guys get called to a job to dig a trench
>owner rents a backhoe
>used backhoe to dig nearby trench
>while digging that trench, he hits sprinkler
>floods trench
>we have to make live terminations from pedestal in knee deep water
>trench 1 dug and terminated
>owners sends 7 guys to dig trench 2 by hand while he fills trench 1 with the backhoe

>>1451705

>doing more gay pulte shit
>company hired new foreman
>A-card journeyman (qualified to work on any specialty according to the IBEW
>as we all know, resi commercial and industrial all have their quirks
>dude fucks up the layout of every recessed can light in the house
>douchebag construction manager didnt notice any of it until after drywall was up
>$8,000 in drywall backcharges

>>1450906
Kek, fucking double rekt. It's weird how bepis finally got rid of his trip code isn't it

To have a basement
To have a long lasting house with deep foundations
To build smth long lasting instead of a McMansion

>>1451710
>>1451705
>>1451695
These are pretty atrocious. Curious about the mold. I'm assuming there are different types of "black mold" right? I can't imagine company allowing themselves to be responsible for house with dangerous mold being sold. I mean I know someone whose family had black mold, and it really f'd them up. Husband went blind. None of them can eat wheat or sugar, or the mold starts growing again in their systems. Oh I guess that counts as a bad contractor story too - just not mine.

>contractor fixes pipe in wall
>slow leak somehow
>entire family sick
>contractor company folds - no one left to sue
>owner moves over seas or something

>>1448163

>morties and tennon

>>1448630
>Dovetail joint

>>1448630
>Dovetail joint


Am i the only one seeing this?
Are they only pretending?

>>1450367
>>1450424
Ya, this. High desert here and in the extreme winter/summer there ain't no thermal battery/heat sink benefit around these parts either.

>>1451813
new mexico?

>>1446390
>they covered all that OSB with plastic wrap and 1 layer of brick

canadian brickie here, it’s sad to see how these houses are slapped together. They charge 600, 700 up to a million for pressboard joists, brick veneer and less than a car width between houses.

>>1451864
>>they covered all that OSB with plastic wrap and 1 layer of brick

What else would you put? 25 layers of plastic and 4 layers of brick?

>>1451664
Mate. Never go for the firemen. Go for people who do this as their main business, not a side thing. People whose continued income solely depends on their quality work.

>>1451842
Nah, not that high. South CA. About a thousand meters up. Week before last we had daytime highs of 108°F and nighttime lows of 89°F. Relief came by way of walking out front onto my "putting green" of a lawn with a frosty forty ouncer.
In der vintah, we get lows down b/w 10°F and 20°F for a couple weeks late Jan./early Feb. Could be clear all day and the neither the slab nor the roof is contributing much. Gotta huge array on the south facing pitches, too.

>>1446380
Thats disgusting

>>1446173
I'm going to do this if I ever find myself or a family member or friend in a similar situation?

>>1445942
They're pretty common in greater Yuropooria

>>1446957
you're so dumb it hurts.

>>1451779

Idk that much about the mold. But it was black. And it was mold. And they sold the house. Only alternative is to rip out every TGI. Thats $$$$$$$. Toll Bros would have lost money on the house

If theres one thing I recommend to anyone buying a new construction home, dont go with a national builder.

>>1451886
I'd agree if I didn't do tree removal as sidework with a guy I work with. His main job is autobody and he does it dam well (though I critique it like he's garbage) and he takes that ethic everywhere. Our sidework is done on time at cost and the million other things you want but idk about because I'm a basic laborer for him but we have more repeat customers than not.
Honesty I think firemen are a bit lazy. There for you when you really do need it and all honor to them for it but the couple I met in my township are dumb as a brick.

>>1451918
I'd live where you live in a second if it weren't for the commiefornia politics

>>1451864
I'm interested to know what was veneer used in the 30's 40's for the second story on a Canadian house south Ontario. Mime is built in 37, first floor brick and second floor is stucco, what would it have actually been then? Wood siding? I like the generous cavity I have between the outside wall and inside wall, I think it is there to help the brick breathe.

>>1452377
Oh ya.
>contractor story
>need door work done
>see kijiji add for local guy
>arrange time and date for him to come look and quote, says he lives 5mins away
>follow up and day of to confirm meetup
>"yup!"
>"OK I'm on my way now, see you in a few!"
>15min later, 30mins, 1 hour later...
>never showed up, send a text asking if today still works and a call to see what's up.

Never heard from again, what the hell..

>>1446731
hit the nail of the head, 95% of Muslim customers I deal with will argue and try and barter over petty shit. If I invoice I am forever chasing up payment and if I get paid in cash I get short changed, its a complete lack of respect for non Muslims

Well, this is a fucking trainwreck of a thread.

>>1447681
>new roof
>$1000

mate

>>1452451
I put in a new roof under my deck and it cost less then 300.00 US of course it was less then a hundred sq feet.

>>1452441
I work for myself doing HVAC. I find out that about 50% of Mideastern people complain. The other 50% are my very best customers. It is a culture thing to fight on the invoice. They expect you to overcharge and the bitching is to bring it to a reasonable price. I never over charge so the bitching is a pain in the ass.

>>1452465
yeah, your avg residential roof is 17-30 sq (100 square feet)

>>1445949
>glass roofing
Kek. Asphalt shingle roofs last 30+ years bub.

>>1452441
teach them the white mans way. just ask them specifically what they feel is unfair about the itemised invoice. throw around the As-Salaam-Alaikum. this phrase is used to embarrass a muslim who is trying to cheat you.

>>1452467
>>1452441
They treat muslims the same way desu. Again it's just cultural. You wanna see white people do this shit? Deal with the very poor - like street kids or homeless, or go to swap meets - you'll see subcultures where constant negotiation is a part of life. Personally, the fucking worst? CEO of a startup. I've never seen people who are so willing to walk away from what they legitimately owe you.

>sign contract for work
>perform work
>client signs off
>check never shows up
>its on the way
>check never shows up
>"well were not happy with your work, we'll pay you 50%"
>uhm you signed a contract, and you signed off on the work
>"sorry - that's just how it is"
>lawyer up
>still won't pay
>soon as you actually hit them with paperwork
>willing to pay now ( and of course now you owe your lawyer money - but their lawyer was just some golf buddy )

I figure this works with tons of people who aren't familiar / comfortable with suing someone.

You know who the worst was? Some fuck from a non-profit, multi-millionaire - fucked me over on a piddly $5k. Tried to tell me that I agreed to get paid "After they showed enough revenue"

nah bro.

>>1449787
>you don't own anything in the US not even yourself
>I'm not gonna provide evidence tho

>>1453529
>uhm you signed a contract, and you signed off on the work
What happens if a customer refuses to sign off on contracted work? Let's say the work is perfect so there's no dispute there.

>>1445933
>at worksite
>crew of masons working same site
>moving something one guy fell out of a truck bed & broke his nose
>they put him in the passenger seat & leave for a hospital
>they make a left turn out
>the guy falls out again

they had 2 guys fall off 5’ scaffolding the month before, i know one was fucking around.

>>1445933
>hire contractor to install a fan exhaust for the kitchen
>say he'll build straight up
>straight up just so happens to be where the ventilation is
>he was already given the plans
>was dumb enough to even mention that
>tell him to just do it around it instead of being an idiot

Other than that, I didn't really have any bad experience. Well ok, I did have my sewage pipe destroyed by they covered the costs on that one.

>>1445949
>considers asphalt tiling the worst
>tiles which last last 20 to 50+ years
>potentially recyclable
>can self install easily
>is incredibly cost efficient
>no leaks if properly installed
>kinda hard to damage come to think of it, unless someone is going at your roof with a knife or a medium sized tree falls on it
>you can actually stand on it

>trying to shill for slate, glass, and a bunch of shit you can't physically stand on without risk of shattering something
t.shingle merchant

>>1445942
European, Canadian, Australian and USA? Tiles are great you twat.

>>1447889
That looks like Castle Combe village in Wiltshire

>Be me, little guy contractor
>get an entire house to remodel
>CS it will be fun, we're great to work for
>4 weeks in, working by myself
>Cx start showing up every fucking evening
>Cx bitches about beer cans
>Cx wonders why shit isn't done
>CS she used to be a project manager
>Cx already paid me half
>Cx can't back out now
look boys, I'm there every day crushing this shit, but everyone honestly under estimates how long shit take. not ever fits the first try especially when cx orders material. I had to custom over 50% of shit. And you know what? A ton of shit has been done. I told them 2 months, it's been one, and I'm at my halfway point. I don't start drinking until 4pm, but that's only when I'm working until 7pm that night. Fuck you customer, you don't live there.

This old fucking bird actually told me
>"I used to be a project manager, and you would never have made it on my team."
I kekd heartily. I almost took off my tool belt and handed it to her.

>>1453806
So how many piss bottles did you leave in her walls before she confronted you, and how many more are you going to leave now?

>>1453806
>I used to be a dubious authority

Why would anyone think this will make people listen to them. I bet you finish on time and on budget and she finds some reason to bitch

>>1453870
way of the road

>>1445933
>all the apartment/mommys basement dwellers that don't understand why your friend sued

At a point its not about the money, its about making sure this idiot knows hes a fucking idiot, making sure he causes a huge problem for his boss, and also getting your money back.

If you let some dude come by, step all over your nice shit, lie straight to your face, make you pay him for doing whatever 'work' he did, including breaking your shit, and then try to bill you for him to come repair the shit he himself broke, you're a fucking cuckold I don't care how you want to justify it.

>>1451683
Is it not standard practice to pressure check with air like the plumbers around here do ?

>>1453658
That is an interesting point. I'll have to review the contract ( and it always depends on whose contract gets signed ) . In mine - they have 10 days to provide feedback/approval. If at that time they haven't responded - we give them a formal 5 day notice, that if they haven't provided feedback in 5 days, work is deemed approved. We rarely use this - mostly it is just a soft threat to get the ball rolling.. eg: client's project manager can go to their boss and say "hey faggots, hurry it up, or else". I've only used this clause twice for real. ( had own company for about 10 years now ).

Now, they could provide an endless list of changes, minor shit, or whatever. At that point we'd have to decide if these were "new changes" or part of the original job or not, and that honestly, can get a bit messy. I've never had to go down that path - we either agree to the changes, or tell client the updated cost, and that has always worked out. I've never had to legally test the portions of the contract that deal with that.

On the flip side, our vendor contract ( the one I provide to freelancers, etc ) is total fucking bullshit and biased as fuck. If you really dig into it, I don't think I ever have to accept their work.

And the contracts that my corporate clients make me sign are fucking ridiculous. Like, they can fuck me over 100 different ways, and even discussing the contract with someone is a violation of my NDA, and blah blah blah. But I mean, if you wanna work with Amazon, or who fucking ever, that's just how they roll. See right there? suggesting I did work with amazon? violation of my contract I'm sure. If I had one. which I can't comment on.

>>1454640
reported
to Amazon
they know

>>1454640
Shit. You know how to enforce contracts? I've been working for my dad for 10 years now, just a small 2 bay garage for auto repairs and we hit the road to do Glasswork for body shops and shit. We have no issues with the glass customers since they're businesses or owners of antique cars that couldn't find anyone else capable so they know they'll need us again, but repair work is shit. Granted the shop pulls in enough cash to deal with it, but we've got about 10k in work we did that went completely unpaid. We tried going to court but the officials said it'll cost us a lot of money and they won't be locked into paying that money with threat of law enforcement so we basically write up the bill with crossed fingers that they'll pay for it.
We have trouble collecting from mostly contractors and to a lesser extent niggers

That said, we do oporate on a heavily trust run model where if your broke you get your car back no problems and we'll set up a payment plan. I think that's a lot of our issue because in my jurisdiction we have the right to keep the car until paid in full but at the same time there's a lot of customers we've gathered over the years that use payment plan method that I really like dealing with. Always on time with payment, never question our work, some don't even want us to call with an estimate baring repairs that essentially total the vehicle, and even tip every now and again. I like that model since it helps those people, helps us, except when a scumbag decides he'll use us for a 1 time repair and never talk to us again.

>>1454713
What? Your lawyer sucks. Go tosmall claims court. Get judgement against them for work done, or the max for your jurisdiction. Sell judgemet todebt collection agency after they d0nt pay yooub

>>1452276
Ya, life's all about tradeoffs and that is one I roll with. Not that it doesn't get tiresome and all too frequently find myself moping and pouting and going on about how I'mma finally get the fuck on... BUT them clowns in Sacto can eat a fat yak dick cos I ain't goin nowhere.
It sounds corny af but this place is akin to my sanctuary. Since before I moved here, just heading this way always put me into a meditative-like mindset.
>>1452444
>trips o truth
people of the world
join in
the love train
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQvmCzILBfE
>>1453527
>this phrase is used to embarrass a muslim who is trying to cheat you.
wat?
>>1453529
>the fucking worst?
>CEO of a startup
Can most definitely confirm.
>>1449787
>>1453644
This can be said of every nation state. Seems anon has not arrived at that fork in the rabbit hole yet.
>>1453658
An outright refusal is a rarity, but would accelerate real time into legal representatives filing paperwork in the respective jurisdiction followed closely by face time with arbiters quickly resulting in an answer as to who needs to seek out a better legal team.
>>1454640
>contracts that my corporate clients make me sign are fucking ridiculous
WORD

Looks like Australia to me

>>1447824
LOL counter-strike map. What was it, de_cbble?

>>1447794
This. American houses are - pic related.

>>1447824
The raw materials for portland cement are much more abundant than Pozzolans.

>>1446740
Be an hero with your fellow /pol/yps

>>1454697
You'll never catch me, coppers

>>1454713
>Shit. You know how to enforce contracts?
>we've got about 10k in work we did that went completely unpaid.
My dad is a criminal defense lawyer, and he's the same way - it's not worth it to track people down, and then won't have the money anyway. Have you tried calling collection agencies? I'm assuming you have a lot of $1000 here, $2000 here kind of debt? Or is it single clients that run up $10k bills?

Lawyers take 1/3. And people always try and negotiate down debt. So I've found way to jack up costs on people. I do a lot of "Rush charge: 50%" then credit them immediately on the bill - clients see me giving them "discounts" - which makes them happy. But if someone ends up not paying, I'm including those rush charges in the amount I ask for. No idea if it's legal or not. probably should update my contract to explain that discounts are null and void if client has not paid blah blah blah. It gives me a bit more leverage in the "pay me or else phase". I also charge interest up the ass. like max legal amount compounded monthly. Sometimes I'll even make up charges once it is clear they aren't going to pay. Suddenly their $8,000 they owe looks like $15,000. It sounds goofy, but my clients always have the money. They just don't want to part with it. They pull that Trump style shit ( I'll pay you half - if you have to fight me in court, It'll take years blah blah blah ). When they start getting calls from lawyers and understand they really did sign a contract that has them dead to rights, and that shit is compounding on them monthly - they cave. And it gives me room to be generous and back down to my original quote "if they pay by monday".

>>1447824
>redpill me on Roman Concrete, why dont we still use it if its so superior?

Uses aluminum instead of portland cement. You can get it, but it's mostly reserved for building dams, nuclear power plants, and other hard targets.

>>1448160
a lot of concrete gets made with cheap gypsum, or calcium filler. soaks up water and holds it, rusts out the rebar in just a few years. a lot of buildings have come down because of that cancer.

>>1446383
What is the alternative? What should be used for sheathing? Roof and/or walls, is plywood really better. Pressure treated plywood? Genuinely curious. I'm using fiber-cement siding so I thought that would adequately protect the sheathing for 100 years.

>>1446263
so what about snow and ice what could someone use that lives north use (canada)

>>1456420
you understand. clay tile works in mexico, but it's shit where the temperature changes seasonally.

clay shrinks and expands with temperature,
if clay is wet, and freezes it shatters. clay garden pots crack, clay tile comes loose off concrete floors and walls

clay is fine in mexico where it's always 100 degrees but not in the north

metal roof with thick butyl joints, anti fungal asphalt, or Cedar are best in cold

>>1456446
yes that was what i was asking about i figured there was a good reason no one uses tile or terracotta in canada and i know this is expensive but copper roofs are they any good

since this seems like roofing general right now... how many years you think these tiles have left?

>>1456566
They are due for replacement already.

>>1456571
What happens if I don't replace them? This is like the worst patch, 90% of the roof looks more like this

>>1456573
>What happens if I don't replace them?
Weather gets in, the wood under it rots pretty quickly and you need to replace that part of the structure.

>>1456573
the bad patch looks like storm damage,
too late now probably but it could have been covered by insurance.
the bad shingles need to be replaced asap, leaks will do more and more damage

>>1456615
interesting. I've gotten 2 quotes on the roof since the storm - I didn't realize that was storm damage. I thought they were talking about replacing just the obviously missing ones.

>>1456815
and now that I think about it - I don't think they were planning on replacing that. How do I convince them it was storm damage?

Proper tiles shouldn't break when you walk on them.

>>1457212
properly installed tile. aint nobody got time for that. tile roofers just drop a scoop of mud and slap a tile on it. they don't mortar the tile according to the book. most roofers can't even read a book

>>1447898
It's not burnt, it's tarred.

t. Norwegian

>>1446514
>noisy when it rains.

i have a friend with a metal roof surrounded by oak trees. holy crap is it loud, acorns falling on the house from 75 ft up, BANG BANG BANG all day and night

>>1448136
these timbers were probably from a 2000yr old growth tree aswell nothing today will last like that unless it's from like an old redwood or cedar

>>1449666
damn didnt know satan knew bout those weaboo planes

>>1456373
Yeah, some even smaller bills than that from different people. I'm actually lookin at our list of deadbeats in front of us, lot of em are bar Flys. 8 in total.
I haven't talked to debt collectors but I guess that's a way to go. They buy our debt and we can forget about it, right?

>>1453644
Top kek underage b& or room temp iq. This should be common knowledge by now.
>the sky is blue

>POST PROOOF WAHH

>>1446727
More up front. Arguably offset over time from lower heating and cooling bills.

>>1445949

>diy telling me cedar shingles or a fucking thatch roof will last longer than asphalt.

I hope no one takes this board seriously.

>>1460175
>He hasn't driven on that cedar road thats 100 years old and going strong

>>1446514
>not liking the sound of a summer storm come rolling in and falling asleep to lullaby of rain on the roof

>>1459752
they pay pennies on the dollars probably? I'm not sure.

what about small claims court?

>>1460214
As far as I understand it, it doesn't really help except that if we win the case we can claim it as an asset. They won't be arrested for not paying or anything like that.

>>1456446
No one uses tile in Canada because it isn't used traditionally. In Norway and Sweden tile is used a bunch. You also rarely have freezing weather and wet weather at the same time.

>>1449860
ahoj.

ale ja som niekto iny ako ten komu odpovedas

>>1460314
You get a judgement in court and then its worth a lot more to the collection company you sell it to because they can garnish wages or put a lien on his property; instead of just asking nicely/not so nicely.

>>1446380
is it wrong to enjoy that image?

What to do if the estimate is 12,000 and you have literally nothing but are inventive. What are the honest to god options that won't make the situation worse. The eval was done 7 times.

>>1445933
>tfw I was a bad contractor

My worst fuck up is dropping a bag of weed in a clients house and then their dog ate it. Luckily they were pretty cool and laughed about it but god damn I still kick myself for that shit.

My boss was a real goon and we did a lot of shitty work. We were ace at gutters and always did that well but always had people complaining when we did windows.

>>1446506
Railroad gravel is called ballast. I learned this from a porn game.

>>1460350
Shit, sweet, I'll let my dad and grandma know. Thanks buddy, maybe I'll get a raise for bullshitin on the internet kek.
>that'll never happen my dad's secretly Jewish and my gf makes more than me to walk dogs at a vet

>>1445942
average UK street on average sunny day

>>1460747
i want to ride that train.

>>1448385

Are you that Croat anon who posts McConstruction hate threads on pol?

Whats your take on concrete blends like 50% lime mortar and 50% Portland concrete?

>>1460350
call some collection agencies and ask them, instead of just believing shit you read on the internet.

>>1461410
Hey, i heard thst from a lawyer on the radio!

And yes, they want you to have a judgement against the guy that owes you a debt.

Which involves something like 90 days of asking nice, with good records, another notice to pay or quit with records of that, tgen small claims court, like i said, unless its enough over that it would be worth it to bring him to court , but then you need a lawyer and he'll take as much of your money as the agency will take

PC's
>>1446702
>>1446731
>>1446747
>>1446742

NPC's
>>1446736
>>1446761
>>1446713

>>1456420
they have clay tiles in canada too, they are fired and dont absorb moisture at any real rate.
lots of houses in my area have them and have for the last 30 years with zero issue

>>1445949
Slates look fucking ugly. Metal has some real nice aesthetics if you trade off some of its efficiency.

>>1445949
contractors don't push asphalt, they love to do more expensive shit.

>>1446617
He wouldn't have sued him if he would have given him his money to replace the tiles.

It sounds like you're a cuck because you like it when other men destroy your property and refuse to pay for it.
Did bullies take your $3 of lunch money when you were in school?

>>1446761
>>1446736
>You should talk about bad contractors in a fucking political board.

I know where you belong.

>>1446514
>But it's noisy when it rains. Concrete and clay tiles don't make a peep.

The noise is one of tin's biggest advantages. I've yet to meet someone who doesn't love the noise of rain on a tin roof.

>>1464340
You haven't met me and I have no skin in this argument however I do hate the noise sometimes. Emphasis on sometimes. Most, it's white noise that lulz me to bed.
(my grandmother has tin roof or whatever I know nothing about roofing)

>>1446506
>>1446897
>>1446957

Railroads use graded stone for ballast because it's a fuckton cheaper than a reinforced concrete base. Who is going to pour a 10-foot-deep concrete base for miles and miles?

>>1446246
Exactly. You lease it and the payments are called “property taxes”. Fail to make payments and “your” property is reposessed.

>>1446249
>never see it rusting
“See? We tested in a desert and it didn’t rust!”

>>1464926
concrete doesnt shed water very well and railroads form dams in flood planes. the bedding also needs to be able to shift a bit for these faggots to straighten them. well, rail tampers. but grinders look cooler.

>>1445996
>pozzolanic cement is a sign of poverty
wew, are you posting from the bronze age?