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/diy/ - Do It Yourself


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1280880 No.1280880 [Reply] [Original]

This is the technology board, so why not a thread about this?

Here is the scenario:
>2000 people are sent through a time machine to the dino days to study things
>they can't bring anything but themselves, not even the clothes on their back
>they need to build everything from scratch when they arrive
(this creates an alternate timeline, does not interfere with ours)

How long would it take for them to create:
>steel
>guns
>electricity
>lightbulbs
>cameras
>cars
>computers
and eventually, a time machine back home

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEl-Y1NvBVI

>> No.1280881

>>1280880
really depends on 2000 people sent back. if they're all millennials, never.

>> No.1280882

>>1280881
DAE millennials are incompetent??? XDDDDD

>> No.1280883

>>1280881
the best, most knowledgeable people humanity has to offer
(and obviously the most fit, to fight off the dinos)

>> No.1280884 [DELETED] 

>>1280881
This
If they are millenials they all starve to death withn a few weeks.
If they are all black people they stay forever primitive.
If they are all non-millenial germanic whites, they develop computers in less than 100 years.

>> No.1280885

They wont make into 30 days why even care?

>> No.1280886

>>1280880
One of the few good channels on youtube.

>> No.1280887

>>1280886
Too bad in his newest he's just repeting what he already did

>> No.1280888

>>1280880
if it creates an alternate timeline, what's the point of sending them back to 'study things'?
we won't get any of the information they get

>> No.1280889

>>1280887
Yeah he should stop building furnaces.

>> No.1280890

>>1280884
>germanic whites
>100 years
Yeah, like, germans had an ancient civilization, culture, developed sciences, drama, literature, music, e.t.c..
And they obviously create it again....
What's next? Nigs launching satellites?

>> No.1280891

>implying this won't turn into some lord of the flies shit

>> No.1280892

>>1280886
Agreed

>> No.1280893
File: 19 KB, 903x480, 10356317_10152569669624497_1367830035916258914_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1280893

>2000 people in prime physical condition naked in the jungle

>> No.1280894
File: 47 KB, 300x400, varg_vikernes-sol_austan_mani_vestan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1280894

Hopefully they won't made the same mistakes and stay forever in the bronze age, living in tribal cultures, the ideal for the human race.

>> No.1280895

Assuming we could survive most than just minutes, to primitive environment conditions, then
I bet we are competent enough to organize and manage to get resources and shelter in matter of hours, days to achieve a stable source of resources and protection, months to develop a fully serviced village with artisan industry, few years to achieve a manufacture industry based on basic technology, motor powered vehicles and basic telecommunication and electricity infrastructures, in 100 years maybe reach a post industrial rev. level and electronics.
But this is also assuming people aren't a dumb selfish monkeys when working together in threatening scenarios.
So most likely it will end in resource wars and massacre.

>> No.1280896

>>1280884
Germanics were still living in huts and beating each other to death with clubs when great civilizations had come *and gone* in Persia and India. Euros (incl burgers) are overrated. No wonder Blacks are winning out over them these days.

>> No.1280897

>>>/out/

>> No.1280898

>>1280896
And they went from living in huts to space travel faster than anyone else.

>> No.1280899

>>1280888
Is a one way trip, they get to study things for them, not for us

>> No.1280900

>>1280896
>living on easy mode instead of harsh climates

>> No.1280901

>>1280898
Standing on the shoulders of giants of science isn't that hard 2bh

>> No.1280902

>>63432120
Varg is one of the purest and most intelligent whites

>> No.1280903

>>1280880
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEl-Y1NvBVI
>dino days

Youd die. Thats it. You werent meant to live in a biome that has animals three times your size with huge sharp things all over them.

>> No.1280904

>>1280902
>Most intelligent
Fucking lol. You're probably right but for the wrong reasons.

>> No.1280905

>>1280901
Even easier to not acknowledge those giants and tout superiority over other peoples for your own "accomplishments."

>> No.1280906

>>1280880
I like the question a lot. OP. for this reason. We do not yet know how to build a time machine. The answer, therefore, is NEVER! Because those people do not have either the technical knowledge nor the time to discover that knowledge. they would be dead before they discover the answer. We may all think we are very very smart compared to the smartest cavemen that ever lived but let me tell you, the only difference between most people alive in 2017 compared to those who lived in 1717 is that we use computers, have a more liberal attitude and carry smartphones. There are very few other differences. We are no nearer now to building a time machine than we were 10,000 years ago. The reason being that we have neither the technical capability nor the science to enable that

>> No.1280907

>>1280880
>a time machine back home

Thousands of generations would have died by the time you get to building cameras, they ain't coming back.

>> No.1280908

>>1280882
>butthurt

>>1280883
if you hand pick each person to ensure all bases were covered, most of that wouldn't take too long. good computers and cameras would take the longest. it all depends on finding the right resources, extracting them and refining them. with dinos running around and other environmental dangers.. it would take many years, decades even and if you lose the wrong person, you very well could be fucked.

>> No.1280909
File: 150 KB, 976x596, proto-indo-european-language-spread-map[2].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1280909

>>1280896

>> No.1280910

>>1280880
they'll die anyway, just like the dinos

>> No.1280911

>>1280880
What about sort the 2000 people as anons from /g, /b, /pol, /k, /lit, you name it. Which composition would bring any hope of success? /k would take care of security, /g is quite hopeless in the beginning, maybe /sci would make it instead. What else?

>> No.1280912

>>1280908
lel, you can send back the entire staff of Nikon and related companies all the way from Nikon engineers, factory workers, to the miners that pull raw earth out of the ground, and they still wouldn't be able to build the simplest digital camera within their lifetimes.

Allow them to bring some books on the subjects, then maybe.

>> No.1280913

>>1280880
>"How long would it take for them to create"
>implying all of the they knew won't be lost by the second or third generation and they won't be starting from square zero
Modern individuals posses knowledge from a very narrow and specific domain. Most of it would be useless for them in that scenario desu. People that lived in tribes or nomads that had to depend on survival had a vast knowledge of many things. They didn't have one specific job until more organized societies emerged.
I think the real question is if they would be able to organize themselves in some sort of a society and how that society would look like. Would there be public education? Seems obvious to us, but what if they were so desperate they couldn't afford it? What if some group or a despot introduced slavery? Without a functioning society passing modern knowledge down would be probably impossible. And even then we should expect it would be very degraded and limited at best, not to mention losing all the domain specific information. But if they managed to pass down reading and writing skills that would be more than good enough.
Actually, we don't even have to guess how it would work out. It already happened many times in history. Take ancient grece as an example. They developed an advanced society that had no match until renaissance. People knew and were able to do things back then that make modern people rub their eyes in disbelief. But as soon as their society has fallen, all of it was lost. Or rather frozen for many years until sophisticated enough societies emerged that were able to embrace their lost knowledge. It's like that thing people say about industrial revolution: it wasn't a steam engine that introduced the age of steam, it was the age of steam that made steam engine possible. Ironically, steam engines were known to ancient greeks.

>> No.1280914

You don't need a time machine, just go to Africa

>> No.1280915

>>1280880
>steel
if they are aware of where they will arrive then pretty much instantly (6 months) using geography records if not then they would need to figure out their location relative to a historical ore deposit but iron tools would be cast in clay before steel production happens
>guns
shortly after the first metal tools are cast but before full steel production is underway (3 months) assuming the correct location to historically contain all the elements of gunpowder was crossmatched with ore
>electricity
full scale power production would not happen for years but crude hand cranks and lodestone/magnet generators could be made within 1 month given the correct starting location
>lightbulbs
pretty much within a week if you land near copper and sand since its just glass blowing, your failure rate would be super high and you'd lack electricity to power them
>cameras
2-5 years minimum it is just glass but accurate measuring tools would take time
>cars
no less than 10 years since you need to reverse engineer every part and tool that goes into one
>computers
depends on what you mean by computer lots of ancient gear mechanisms are computers but silicon processors would depend more on the colony thriving beyond its initial 2000 but no less than 25 years
>a time machine
how the fuck am I supposed to know? the secret to time travel could very well be lathering mayonnaise on your ass under the 5th full moon of a year while rubbing your tummy and patting your head

>> No.1280916

>>1280913
this

>> No.1280917

It's actually easy to guess what would happen, because:
>they can't bring anything but themselves, not even the clothes on their back
Yeah, good luck with that if all they had were ancient crops. Most of them would die of hunger in year one even if they worked their asses off on some shabby plantations.
Hunting is quite fucking hard and requires skill which none of them would have and it takes even more time. And you can only support a bunch of people that way.
Primitive people spent almost all of their time, from dusk till dawn, looking for food only to gather enough to barely survive. And they knew their stuff, unlike the people you want to send back in time.

>> No.1280918

Information of modern shit is almost useless in such a time. Knowing how a CPU is fabricated is useless if you don't know what berries will poison you and what leaves will be toxic.

>> No.1280919

hopefully they won't reinvent loot boxes and YouTube

>> No.1280920

>>1280896
>great civilizations had come *and gone* in Persia and India.
hey, a nog can run also.

>> No.1280921

You mean how long until they're all dead?
They'd be dead long before they create modern technology.

>> No.1280922

>>1280918
A CPU, sure, because even when you understand it it still takes really advanced machinery to actually build even full-sized working transistors. Other more recent understandings, classical mechanics for example, would be instantly applicable to varying degrees of utility and it could be interesting to see what they'd produce with the lack of infrastructure.

>> No.1280923

>>1280880
Due to the small sample of population, at least, 300-500 years. You are taking basic comodities at face value in your current time. The people sent would fight for survival as everybody else, they just would be more successful.

>> No.1280924

>>1280920
Would you like to try that again? Try to form a coherent sentence this time.

>> No.1280925

>>1280880
2000? Within 6 months half will be dead. And if you send them back in winter, they will be dead in 2 weeks.

So, you already halved your population.

Mining metal is a tragedy. First you need to find it. how long would it take? Years just for this? Probably you can do fine up to copper, but with iron? You are fucked. You can have 10000 slaves, but if you don't know where to search there is nothing you can do. To get most of metals you need trading. That's a super duper bummer.

But even if you know where to search, and you know how to mine, you still have to mine. And then do the smelt. AND BOY, you have NO idea how much energy it takes to work metal until you try yourself. You need A BUNCH, really a BUNCH of people designed only for chopping down threes. And...btw... who is going to plow the fields in the meantime? the most easy mines to access are in mountain regions.... THERE IS NOT FOOD IN MOUNTAIN REGIONS. STOP. This is is, you live on the mountains in the pre industrial era, you starve to death.

2000 people are nothing, it's simply too much work and odds just to get to iron.

>> No.1280926

>>1280918
>Knowing how a CPU is fabricated is useless
Sure thing but imagine everyone having understanding of electricity and radio

>> No.1280927

>>1280925
Why would they need iron immediately? Surely agriculture would be the primary focus on arrival, starting with more primitive tools.

>> No.1280928

>>1280927
You people have some serious issues understanding the time and the energy involved in doing even the most basic stuff.

To "do agriculture" you need a field. I don't know where you live in, but if you live in Europe (and not so many places, apart China, India, some part of middle east), fields exist because modern generations have inherited them from the previous ones... and the chain goes back to the Roman "centuriation" for most of Central Europe (apart Italy). The Romans managed to create fields out of forests and swamps with HUNDRED OF THOUSANDS of slaves, over the course of CENTURIES.
You know how south America gained massive amounts of farmland? With mechanized farming within the most recent centuries.

Even winning farmland from Nature is a fucking enterprise.

Oh.... btw... what are you going to plant in the field (which you don't have? You think you can make any useful domestic species out of while plants in one generation of people?

You guys should take a shovel (and pickax... i bet you don't even know what's it's purpose, you will know if you try), and try digging 1 cubic meter of soil. Tell me how much it takes then report back.

>> No.1280929

>>1280884
You mean med master race, Germanic snow niggers didn't invent shit.

>> No.1280930

>>1280928
Jesus my typing is shit and somehow autocorrection is even worse. Read through the typos of my autism, please.

>> No.1280931

Interesting scenario OP.

I'd think the first and most pressing priority, after they've found a safe place to live and have met basic necessities, would be the manufacture of decent quality PAPER so that they can write down everything they know about everything. This will tie up everyone for years, maybe the whole first generation.

After that priorities would presumably be finding sources of iron ore and coal. Once you have steam power everything is on autopilot.

>> No.1280932

>>1280928
Yeah, and that's really the question: How much would our modern understanding accelerate the course of technology? I dunno if you're making the assumption that the people would have to achieve it all within their collective lifetime.

Though if you were to say it's a very broad question that's insanely difficult to answer, then I'd agree.

>> No.1280933

>>1280903
Not true the abbos dealt with 20ft lizards and carnivorous kaaangaroos just set it all on fire senpai. Burn down an entire forest and build a fortified city center. I reckon ancient roman machines of ear would more than suffice to stave off any dino attacks.

>> No.1280934

>>1280915
this is all WILDLY optimistic.

Showing up naked, I'd be impressed if they ended up with a light-bulb within anyone's lifetime.

>> No.1280935

>>1280933
>Machines of war*

>> No.1280936

>>1280932
I used to be into alt-history forums, and the general consensus is that nothing could have happened much before it actually did.

All these "what if they had AK-47s in the Civil War?" type scenarios fall apart when you realize an AK-47 would have been impossible to produce, even if you had every last detail of how they were made, because of all the contingent technologies involved.

If you can name anything, at least in the past 200 years, that was invented/discovered more than a few years later than it would have been possible (given required contingent technology) I'd like to hear it.

p.s. re: OP's scenario, they'll be forced to be hunter-gatherers because there won't be any domesticated, high-yeild crops around (since those take centuries to breed into existence). Given a virgin planet they could do this pretty well, but it may require them to migrate a lot.

>> No.1280937

>>1280936
Ballista's? Longbows? Javelin's/spears. Forget ak47s and m16 what about medieval gear? Surely that could be produced an utilized.

>> No.1280938

>>1280936
What about the voltaic pile? I mean no doubt they couldn't build our modern technology in any reasonable time frame, but I'd like to think they could apply the principles in some way to make things more efficient.

>> No.1280939

>>1280880
Assuming they are not retards, they could make steel pretty fast.
It might not be a priority, so lets say 2 years after arrival.
Guns require very good manufacturing, so it will take very long compared to that.
Electricity is easier, if we assume 2 years to make steel, it would take a while to make the tools you need and electricity, but if there is 2000 people ~2.5 years.
lightbulbs might take 3 years.
cameras and computers require very precise manufacturing and they are not very useful until that is up and running.
Cars can be made relatively easy but I think fuel is a bigger problem.
It shouldn't take a month to make an animal driven cart.
You could probably get all that done with ~ 200 people, but I suspect you took 2000 people so there would be people to breed and people to teach the next generation.

>> No.1280940

>>1280938
And what would be the utility that thing? What would you "power"?

>> No.1280941

>>1280915
Crude tools, yes, but anything more advance than that I highly doubt there's enough of the right combination of talent and expertise among that small group of 2000 people. A lot of people nowadays think they know a lot about tech, but what they really know are just the end products, not processes involved in making them.

>> No.1280942

>>1280938
I'm sure you could have had a pretty powerful medieval battery, but what could you do with it?

Perhaps weld I guess, although that might require advanced materials beyond their capability.

>> No.1280943

>>1280940
Well I assume you'd start with fire to save the trouble. How precise does a brushed motor need to be? I really don't know. The point is if these ideas are available in that scenario, they would presumably be trying to find new ways to apply them that we just hadn't considered because we were already past that.

>> No.1280944

>>1280939
You're nuts.

Explain to me how you make useful amounts of electricity in 2 years with any number of people from scratch? You need lots of quality copper and iron at the minimum, plus all the stuff to shape/work it. That's the work of decades.

Also you're never going to have a (tungsten) light bulb without a huge and sophisticated mine. Under a century would be impressive.

>> No.1280945

>>1280937
>Ballista's?

Not even that, there was a show where a group of people attempted to build a large ballista using authentic materials, but end result was a weapon that couldn't even fire a bolt more than fifty feet.

>> No.1280946
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1280946

>>1280880
How many condoms dose he need not to impregnate the girl with triplets?

>> No.1280947

>>1280944
I have made generators before, obviously high quality cobber and making a wire is what will take a lot of time.
But I don't see why getting a metal production up and running would not be of high priority, and once you have that, you can make a wire.
As for lightbulbs, I have only done primitive versions with a pencil, but I am sure there are ways to make one, I am not an expert in that field.

>> No.1280948
File: 53 KB, 720x540, -pol-janitor.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1280948

>>1280944
>the first bulbs were made with tungsten.

>> No.1280949

>>1280947
You'll need hard metal for bearings (plus good luck making bearings that won't wear out / blow up).

Low-friction bearings are probably the least-appreciated but one of the most crucial modern technologies.

>> No.1280950

>>1280949
It depends on what the priorities are.
When you make a hinge, you take a warm piece of metal, hammer an oversized nail through it to make a hole, and then you can use a smaller rod than the hole.
It will have a lot of friction, but if you put it under a large force like a water stream, you can make decent power rather fast.
Getting from 0 to usable takes a lot of time.
Getting from usable to where we are today will take longer, but if you keep your priorities straight, you can make a lot of things really fast.

>> No.1280951

>>1280950
I don't imagine any kind of electrical generator/motor is possible without low-friction tight-tolerance bearings.

Sure, you can (and people did) water-wheels and such with even plain wooden bearings if you're constantly greasing, but electricity, steam, and internal combustion are totally out without quality bearings, which essentially means you have advanced metalurgy.

>> No.1280952
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1280952

>>1280890
Hey, brainlet, germanic is not the same as german, you massive retardo

>> No.1280953

>>1280946
Just the one he made from the stomach of a hog he killed in the forest and the used it entirely.

>> No.1280954

>>1280880
I'd argue never.
2000 people is way too small.
Part of the reason technology advances is because you need a shitload of lower class people doing your peasant work and manual labor, otherwise your scientists and engineers have no time to sit around inventing things because they're too worried about starving or freezing to death.

>> No.1280955
File: 67 KB, 275x447, Arno_Breker-Bereitschaft__Readiness___1939.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1280955

>>1280911
/b/tards would die off quite fast

/r9k/robots would mostly die off, but a select few off them may overcome and if they do, excel magnificently

/pol/lacks will probably do best, as they are inventive, aware, cohesive

/k/ and /lit/ would probably do okay
/g/ers will quite possibly do great

>> No.1280956
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1280956

>>1280925
you are literal shit for brains

>> No.1280957

>>1280880
Anyone saying this could actually be accomplished needs to rethink what the immediate concerns of 2000 people would be. They have absolutely nothing. Number 1 and 2 immediate concerns are shelter and food. Unless you send back a group of people with the specific knowledge to farm, build houses, fight off wild animals, etc, they wouldn't last very long. You'd also need people who can treat injuries and deliver babies. You wouldn't be able to send many scientists and engineers, nowhere near the amount you need to invent any of that. Especially considering those engineers would need another very big group of people producing the materials they need.

Also, you'd probably have a fair share of people fighting over food/land/women/whatever. You need to maintain order, so you need to draft laws/deeds/marriage certificates, you need some form of justice system/police. You need a way to prove ownership of things, a type of currency or established barter system.

I could go on and on, point is, there is a metric fuckton of time and people needed to build something close to resembling a civilization, much less a modern one. You couldn't do it with 2000 people. You probably couldn't do it with 1 million unless you sent them back with specific tools and hand picked them in advance and designed a well thought out plan for them.

>> No.1280958

>>1280881
Probably smart Gen Xs and MAYBE some late baby boomers and early millenials

>> No.1280959

>>1280880
>steel
finding steel wouldn't be difficult, making steel quater as good as it is now would take years and years of research. think about it, finest medieval swords were easily breaking on impact, proper reliable swords like sabres are from 17th ceuntry

>guns
crossbow would probably be one of the first things they would make after figuring out proper material for chord. for proper guns, gunpowder might not be all that difficult to obtain (is it hard to find sulfur?), but those would be heavy single shot weapons because of low quality steel

>electricity
easy to generate, find to make use of. society needs years to start utilizing it, why would you waste your resources on power plant when you can just use candles

>lightbulbs
no reason to rush it

>modern shit
generations. transistor might not be that hard to re-invent, transistor measured in microns would need all of the modern technology to make


basically, halfway the process old modern people would die, new people wouldn't have enough knowledge or willpower to go forward, best case scenario would be late medieval society of people smart enough to read and write slowly inventing things based on books and other knowledge left by original travelers. which wouldn't be bad at all, with right mindset they would move forward super fast, knowing basic concepts like usage of pressure, other physics, or pieces of modern chemistry

>> No.1280960

Yes, I fucking want a general about this.

Really have been a lot into knowledge/tech rediscovery lately

>> No.1280961

>>1280884
>If they are all non-millenial germanic whites, they develop computers in less than 100 years.
optimistic, buddy

>> No.1280962

>>1280880
There is one problem: Humans need a sample about ten times the size to survive long-term (incest issues)

>> No.1280963

>>1280898
>>1280896
Like he said, also you would not image how comfy life is in a hut. They only needed military technology back then (which they had).

There is a story about how the gauls did not accept writing because they said that with writing the mind would degenerate.

In the end they were right. And with most science it is the same. This is why they were still living in huts (and after that were able to overrun the whole avanced roman empire full of degenerates)

>> No.1280964
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1280964

>>1280890
>>1280952

>> No.1280965

>>1280887
>>1280889
Tbh, that was also historically the most difficult technique to master

The hotter the furnace, the more you can create. And what can you create without furnices?

On other notes, he should soon start smithing and then the next stage is carpentry. After carpentry follows simple machines. With simple machines he can make complex cloth. Guy will be running around in roman tunics in a few years

>> No.1280966

>>1280959
>>1280880
>>1280915
You millennials are completely naive about the amount of infrastructure and prior work behind modern amenities, and the sheer amount of physical labor and time required to bootstrap many technologies.

Take steel. Assuming that you don't have to worry about food, clothing, shelter, disease, wild animals, and you have all of the materials close by in easy to access form like you're in some kind of cooking show, then with the right knowledge maybe you can make a small chunk of crucible steel in a month. Take away the Convenience Store of Raw Materials and it'll take decades to travel around and find all of the raw materials, mine and process them, while still assuming all of the other things and that your pioneering are immortal so they won't die in a mining accident.

>> No.1280967

>>1280962
Not true.

Lots of parts of the world (the New World, Australia) probably weren't settled at first by more than a couple hundred people at most.

>> No.1280968

>>1280967
This is speculative evidence. We have recent evidence with the amish where this is NOT working out

>> No.1280969

>>1280967
>>1280968
The original settlers might have comprised a small number of people, but more came eventually. Also there were many "waves" of colonization, some failed altogether and others were only partially successful and were eventually "reinforced" by other groups. In the end, the people we think of as the first inhabitants of any place started a mix of many groups until they finally got the hang of things and homogenized.

>> No.1280970

>>1280969
People can survive as small isolated communities for LONG periods of time.

See: Tasmanian aboriginals, Andamanese

>> No.1280971

>>1280970
Even if you are right, to this there comes another key point: Races

Multiculturalism actually hurts the survivability of people, so the sample size needs to be increased the more diverse it is (there is a whole range of possible genetic complications from interbreeding. We can have this in a medical society, but not in the wilderness when most plant effects have to rediscovered as they have been forgotten already)

>> No.1280972

>>1280933
>Humans going back in time to eradicate the dinosaurs with simple machines and claim the throne of the most powerful species that has ever existed
Is this our endgame?

>> No.1280973

>>1280972
We are already the most powerful species (on earth) ever x49508485348058348

>> No.1280974

It's interesting to consider how helpless and useless humans are without our numbers and millennia of cultural advancement.

>> No.1280975

>>1280973
We won't know for sure until we fight the dinosaurs in an epic battle desu

All of this reminds me of this comparison of how if we would live in a fantasy world, we would be the orcs

>> No.1280976
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1280976

>>1280975
There it is

>> No.1280977

I like how much of a drooling amoebas most of people ITT are to think that cars are in any way relevant in such scenario

They're one of the shittiest mode of transport possible because they require a massive amounts of resources to be spent on infrastructure.

You need human-propelled personal transportation like a bicycle and railway for everything else for maximum efficiency

>> No.1280978
File: 36 KB, 248x249, chuckle.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1280978

>>1280914

>> No.1280979

>>1280915
>shortly after the first metal tools are cast but before full steel production is underway (3 months) assuming the correct location to historically contain all the elements of gunpowder was crossmatched with ore
gunpower is pretty fucking simple, you can literally make it out of urine and some sundries

>> No.1280980

>>1280903

What, like woolly mammoths?

>> No.1280981

>>1280951
it's impressive how a fucking metal sphere is so important

>> No.1280982

>>1280981
Someone should write one of those pop history/science books just about bearings. I'd read it.

>> No.1280983
File: 488 KB, 1024x920, Taq-e_Bostan_-_High-relief_of_Ardeshir_II_investiture.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1280983

>>1280880
>2000 people are sent through a time machine to the dino days to study things
>because of racial/sex/religious quotas only a few them are white/asian men
>They advance technology super fast in a short amount of time
>get lynched by mudslimes and robbed by niggers
>humanity devolves back to apes

>> No.1280984

>>1280974
You mean, because of it.

We are so much dumber than the people of the past when you objectively look at it.
The greeks were right when they thought that the culture will always degenerate and the older generation always HAD TO BE smarter than the younger one

>> No.1280985

>>1280890
>Yeah, like, germans had an ancient civilization, culture, developed sciences, drama, literature, music, e.t.c..

They did.

>> No.1280986

>>1280882
you can't even explain how memory works in a computer

>> No.1280987

>>1280984
>We are so much dumber than the people of the past when you objectively look at it.
How many ancient Greek peasants have you objectively looked at for comparison?

>> No.1280988

>>1280985
Name one ancient German philosopher

>> No.1280989

>>1280987
I have to admit I don't have greeks, but romans.
Roman literacy was very high. They also had "wax-books", a recyclable versionof modern notice blocks and used it like we do today. Literacy was probably even higher than today desu (but that is probably due to niggers and turks).

Also, one simple argument: What is intelligence? Intelligence is at the minimum the ability to survive. Send an old germanic and a modern man into the wilds for 4 months. Who do you think will come back? Who will be smarter then and did not turn insane? Who could retain his focus in the end because his brain could handle MORE than the other one?

>> No.1280990

>>1280988
Arminius :^) Yes, what he did was make and follow a philosophy. Also, they did not have writing because they rejected it (degenerates the mind and memory), but their stories still tell of many of their advances, spiritual and technical

>> No.1280991

>>1280985
Practically everything we know about ancient germans comes from a Roma text that was written by someone that didn't even traveled to Germania and was meant more like a critique of Roman society by juxtaposing it against the noble savages it tried to picture the barbarians as. You're literally reading ancient sjw idealizations of a (for Rome) foreign culture that was mixing with the author's.

>> No.1280992

>>1280989
Send an old germanic into a modern day city and he'll end up in jail or under a bridge. Different timeline with different survival requirements.

>> No.1280993

>>1280989
Who's more likely to survive in the wilds, Isaac Newton or some niggers and turks?

>> No.1280994

>>1280992
He would quickly find manual work, buy a little forest and build his own hut and life there desu

>> No.1280995

>>1280955
what about /a/?

>> No.1280996

>>1280994
Bullshit.
Modern day criminals and thugs are more suited to ancient life than your average office worker. It doesn't mean they're smarter. If you threw some old germanic shepherd or warrior into modern society he would either end up doing bottom of the barrel menial work or he'd get arrested for assault and battery in short order.

>> No.1280997

>>1280994
This is some fetishism level idiocy.

>> No.1280998

>>1280944
You could just mine lead and pyrite (pyrite to synthesize sulfuric acid) to make lead acid batteries. You can also create electricity just by having a height difference via atmospheric electricity.

>>1280951
You could use a low friction surface like glasses to make a bushing.

Regardless it would too steep of a curve and the past of most resistance. Necessity is the mother of invention so the first things that need to be "reinvented" are fundamental tools for firestarting, hunting, agriculture, and shelter building, in itself even with prior knowledge will take on the order of anywhere from a few months to several years to have established enough tools and quarry enough resources to start emerging from the stone age. However, even this is bottlenecked by location. Plopping 2000 people out in the Gobi is not going to as pleasant as placing people along the fertile crescent.

To manufacture a CPU, you can forget it. It would take a century to calibrate the Czochralski process alone to start to cut the wafers.

>> No.1280999

>>1280996
>>1280997
How about you guys read a little into the topic before assuming we are so civilised today and assuming everyone before us was a violent savage?

Not everything was like it was during christianity. People could read (yes, also the germans with their runes), people had democracy/democratic monarchy, people had no problem working for the roman empire and integrating into their city-life.

There is absolutely NO reason an old germanic would not learn very fast how things are being done around here, be disgusted by it almost immediatly but still be aware of the consquences (he would probably see it similar as life as a slave back then, because there too you could buy yourself out), work the most menial task possible to get money and get his own piece of land and a few animals as soon as he can. From then on he is in his own domain.

>> No.1281000

>>1280999
Additionally, with menial I mean manual labour you can learn fast. Guess a muscular man like that would not have a lot of problems getting money with his strength, would he?

>> No.1281001

>>1280999
This is a guess, but I would expect anyone coming from 2000 years ago into the modern day to be way too awestruck by the structures and facilities we have to feel disgusted by a guy wearing stupid glasses in a Starbucks.

>> No.1281002

>>1280957
You don't really need money in a 2000 size population. In a population that small, all resources can be shared and distributed mostly equally.
>Hurr durr communism

No, it's just how a small population society in a hostile environment functions. When the pioneers came to America they functioned by sharing and dividing resources. Once the population increased and food and shelter were abundant the "communist" sharing of resources breaks down and is no longer feasible. It only works while the environment is hostile, food and shelter aren't guaranteed, and the population is small.

>> No.1281003

>>1280996
Your old germanic warrior would probably do just fine in modern society using his awesome mead-brewing skills. He could sell microbrewed mead to local bars at high prices.

>> No.1281004

>>1281003
>He could sell microbrewed mead to local bars at high prices
I could see this happening.

>> No.1281005

>>1281001
Probably, but most likely they will shake their heads the moment they realise all the nature is gone (since they worshipped nature so much) and at the next moment see how unhappy the people are to how he is used to.

Also, I did rethink my scenario a bit. To learn, he would actually need a guide (of course, all granted he already speaks modern german). So he would probably shove some guy aside rudly and get arrested for a few months, realising that for something he did he got arrested (for him probably captured and forced into slavery), and then people start caring for him (prison comrades) and will most likely tell him a few things on how things are going.

It all makes a lot of sense and is very realistic actually if you think about it.

>> No.1281006

>>1281002
>In a population that small, all resources can be shared and distributed mostly equally.

It didn't work for the pilgrims at Plymonth Rock.

>> No.1281007

>>1281005
>>1281001
See, disgusted from the quality of life.
Loud cars, bad air, huge amounts of unhappy people.
Everything just concrete.

Did you ever see Heidi? There is one episode where she is in the city and when she is on the highest tower she starts to cry because as far as she looks there is only stone and no nature. This is probably how he would feel very soon. How any human could actually do that. (And desu, then he will probably directly link that to the reason people are unhappy, and maybe he is right)

>> No.1281008

>>1280880
2000 defenseless people would probably die off in a few generations or marginally survive and evolve into a different species

>> No.1281010

>>1281006
What did you mean by this?

>> No.1281011

Fucking nigger mods moving this from /g/

>>>/g/63439342

>> No.1281012

>>1280977
>You need human-propelled personal transportation like a bicycle and railway for everything else for maximum efficiency

Bicycles only work well on paved roads. Railways aren't practical for small societies.

>> No.1281013

>>1281011
Just means more scrutiny.

>> No.1281021

>>1281010
http://www.heritage.org/markets-and-finance/commentary/pilgrims-beat-communism-free-market

>> No.1281024

>>1280880
>animals are relatively massive so low place in the food chain, humans have to live in caves or treetops to stay safe from predators
>no crops to plant or animals to raise, so most of the energy would go to getting food by hunting/gathering (assuming even that's sustainable)

only these 2 factors are enough to determine that no matter how intelligent or physically strong these 2000 people are, they will probably die off really quick.

add to this that eventually they will have to deal with sickness and internal disputes, and there's no way in hell that they'll make it, unless maybe they somehow find some isolated island with warm weather and small fauna

>> No.1281025

>>1281021
Well it sounds like they established their colony and had food and shelter secured. That's pretty much when you ditch communism. You only use it when initially arriving to a hostile area until you have everything secured and are ready to boom.

>> No.1281063

>>1280880
only 2000 in a single settlement?
they will be raped repeatedly by wild life and vanish

>> No.1281174

>>1280958
don't know what generation the people at NASA were at the time but sending spacecraft into space without ever using a computer is pretty badass.

i talked to some engineer at my previous job.
he told me stories about when he was a child.
learning how to make a pipe bomb.
learning how to make a civil war style canon.
these people learned through trial and error.
it's not like they learned how to create a pipe bomb by using a step by step tutorial.

he still had all his fingers so he was a quick learner.

>> No.1281200

>>1280880
A long long long fucking time because of how ultra specialized everything in the modern day must actually be, AKA generations upon generations, and that's assuming they can record everything they themselves know for the next generations after them to work towards.
>>1280939
Guns are stupid easy to make. A pipe, powder, and an object to propel. Piss in hay, collect the crystals. Mix with charcoal, you now have primitive black powder.

>> No.1281201

>>1280911
/k/, /diy/, /out/, /g/, perhaps /sci/ and /fit/ would do okay. /k/ would immediately make primitive boom sticks, and probably enslave everyone else.

>> No.1281241

2000 naked people in an unknown jungle, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. But let's be optimistic, let's say they make i the 1st few days. Let's say they find water and improvise a shelter.
What the fuck are they going to eat? It's 2000 fucking hungry mouths to feed, imagine the logistics of that. But let's say they somehow manage to kill a fucking large herbivore every couple of days so they get to eat.
Let's say they find a clean field and edible plants and roots and they start farming. Have you ever seen the outcome of an elephant herd getting into a farmed field? There's nothing left but elephant dung. They won't have the manpower to guard that field, they won't have the resources to fence it properly, it'll be an open buffet.
Unless they split into groups of 20 max and travel large distances between them they won't stand a chance.

>> No.1281264

>>1280928
well, creating farmland isn't THAT hard, pioneers did it all across America with hand tools.

the real issue is landing in a region with the correct weather, flora, and fauna to allow the time travelers to survive off the land long enough to build shelter and tools augment their productivity.

yes, early pioneers to America had a strange habit of dying of starvation and disease. it's not fucking easy. but once you can establish a large calorie surplus, creating farmland is a breeze. at least for annual crops. the real issue is the centuries of selection required to breed grains and vegetables with large fruits. ever seen wild carrots and onions? they're tiny. the grass seed in your yard is tiny. imagine trying to harvest that shit to make bread.

>> No.1281278

>>1280890
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF55DtTx458

>> No.1281280

>>1281264
>But muh pioneers.
Creating farm land from scratch is hard as fuck, matey.
You're right about seeds and carrots but there are also big fruits and seeds and roots in nature, tapioca and other shit. The problem is most of those 2000 would be long dead before even contemplating creating farm land.

>> No.1281396

bump

>> No.1281525

>>1280911
/a/ will become sex slaves
/po/ will be eaten by the rest
/soc/ will die off out of exhaustion from masturbation
/r9k/ will all hang themselves at the moment they find the right tree and a sturdy vine (some of them might try to take others with themselves on their way to st. Peter, without success, because no weapons, you know)
/bant/ will rightfully get beaten into pulp by everyone else

>> No.1281680

>>1281012
>Bicycles only work well on paved roads

Nah, you could fashion a bike from wood with rope tyres that will still be a more efficient means of travel along moderately maintained dirt tracks.

Bike is one of those few technologies that really could have appeared far earlier in far cruder form.

>> No.1281682

>>1280880
Everything on your list except computers can be done by a small community.

Computers need a civilization.

>> No.1281693

>>1280925
>Probably you can do fine up to copper, but with iron? You are fucked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron

If you can pick a location and time period having easily accessible materials including iron should be possible with high likelihood.

>> No.1281707

>>1280996
>durr old warriors didn't know how to do anything but kill people

Imagine being this retarded

>> No.1281772

You wouldn’t need to estimate it, just send back several groups, they each create alternative timelines and either die or come back... since we’re talking about time travel it doesn’t matter how long it takes them to build a time machine, they’ll come back to let you know 5 minutes after they left by your perspective, then just ask them how long it took on their end.... honestly don’t waste time on this theoretical problem when theirs a much easier practical solution to find an exact answer...

>> No.1281797

>>1281772
"What Do We Want?!"
>TIME TRAVEL
"When Do We Want It?!"
>THAT'S IRRELEVANT

>> No.1281806

>>1281797
Thank god someone gets it. Jesus

>> No.1281809

>>1281241
I was about to make this exact post. The scenario would devolve into tribalism very quickly.
The only way you get a stable society out of this is if you allow the 2000 people several months to meet each other and plan beforehand. For instance, put them all in a huge bunker with plenty of food and water and plenty of time to prepare. Leaders and groups will emerge - they'll realize that even in the most bountiful ecosystem possible/best case scenario, 2000 people will put an impossible strain on the ecology. They'll have to scatter over quite a distance or before long all the local fauna will be dead, all the berries and roots will have been picked over, and people will be dying left and right.
If you took a random sample of 2000 Americans between 18 and 65, you'd likely get quite a few people with backgrounds in geology, engineering, and agriculture. Most of the necessary skills to build the shit OP asked about would be present, and the preparation time would enable people to teach these skills to others without the threats of starvation/predators. Without the advance planning, it doesn't matter how skilled you are - there will be too much chaos to even begin developing advanced technology. As for computers, there would be absolutely no reason to waste the time and resources on these with such a small population over a small land area. It would probably never happen, at least for several hundred years. Cultural priorities would go in an entirely different direction.
If any of you thinks he can describe the process of building a gun starting in primitive technology conditions with enough detail for a rando to follow it, I challenge you to do so

>> No.1281821

>>1280949
>You'll need hard metal for bearings

wat
you'll need hard metal for cost effective bearings but you can also make a bearing from hardwood no problem at all. What you really need is good oil.

>>1280951
Most of these things are not running with ball bearings. Even in this day you'll find bushings in electric motors. It's a cost thing not an is-it-possible thing.


Yeah most people grossly undererstimate how much work it takes to do modern technology stuff. But a lot of people here overestimate how much it takes to do basic stuff if you know what you're doing. Look at old school iron production in africa as example. It's basicly collecting rocks, put it in a fire and put the result of that in a simple clay furnace. They don't even know what charcoal is and how to produce that stuff efficiently but with so little people it's no problem wasting ressources (at least wood, they're even doing it with little to no trees around). The only reason they stopped doing it is collecting white-man trash is way simpler.


The real problem comes with climate and location of ressources as you can't cover huge areas if you don't have enough people. If you have a hard winter and fucked up the first year, you're done. Food will mainly be meat and fish. If that's not around, you're done. But if you have enough area it's not that hard. My parents are doing it with sheep and poultry. If you have the right kind of vegetation they'll feed themselves. You only keep a few over the winter so you don't have to store much food for them. On problem obviously is storing food. Not a bad idea to move somewhat close to a coast (fish and salt) but not so close it's danger due to flooding.

>> No.1281824

>>1280899
ye, but no goverment would approve it, since you wont even know if it worked or not, and obviously they dont even get any benefit.

>> No.1281828

So i guess the first year would be just collecting stuff to survive (wood, animals, plants, ore), looking out where stuff is and building a place to hang out and store stuff. If you locate ore (on top or close under the surface, real mining is out of the question with so little people) it's a question of days to weeks till the first tools are made. The plus is you know WHAT tools to make and how they make all other processes much more efficient. There's a lot less of trial and error (waste of ressources and time) if you know what you're doing and not just dickin around.

From steel to guns it probably takes a few weeks. You'll need to make hammers, gun drills and files first.

Electricity is probably much later because you don't really need it. Light bulbs will probably be the reason that somebody puts together batteries (to test them).

Analog cameras (maybe without glass lenses) would probably take a few years.

For digital cameras and computers my guess would be that it takes at least a population over 5 million people because they have a gigantic supply chain and extremely complicated stuff you have to be able to handle.

Cars would probably be a very late thing because you actually need distances (and roads) long enough so it's even worth the effort. Also it's a masive waste of ressources (just compare your household power to the average car power). Think about it even in WWII a massive amount of transportation was done by animals and not by cars/trucks)

>> No.1281866

>>1281821
You'd pick a spot near an estuary near enough to the equator you'd simply not have to worry about winter. They obviously could select a spot, otherwise the most likely result would be drowning.

>> No.1281934

>>1281866
>They obviously could select a spot, otherwise the most likely result would be drowning.
What a sight that'd be though.

>> No.1282187

>>1280880
I asked this exact question in a forum a few weeks ago. Crazy coincidence

>> No.1282277

>>1280903
Aka your mother

>> No.1282295

I had a book idea on this topic years ago. Even started some basic research on it.

Basically I wanted to make the book you would need To Build a Civilization. From scratch. Obviously it would scratch the surface on many topics but it would have been designed to quickly get you from the primitive to advanced technology. So for example it would describe the tools of woodworking but it wouldn't explain how to be a master craftsman with them.

In any case a book like this is a lot of work. Just breaking down our civilizations mathematics in limited number of pages is very hard. You have to focus on priorities of getting to the next tech rung and not anything theoretical besides maybe a quick list of various equations, same as the wooden tools.

>> No.1282352

>>1280880
Depends where they are. If it's mineral rich, with plentiful edible plants, that helps all things. If there's a bog with bog iron, getting to steel is easier than say, of they had to mine iron out on a praire.

>> No.1282371

>>1281680
how does that work? I don't think bicycles would be appropriate, you would see passive scooters like they have over in the Congo named Chukudu

>> No.1282822

I suggest whoever is interested in a topic like this to read a manga called "Dr. Stone".

>> No.1283105

>>1282295
>Just breaking down our civilizations mathematics in limited number of pages is very hard.

The "Bronstein" does it quite well. Obviously not a complete summary but would get you very far as a new civilization. Not sure which is the best english translation but i think "Oxford Users' Guide to Mathematics" is one.

What would probably be enough is to bring a wikipedia and youtube archive. It's absolutely possible to become a master craftsmen by trial and error plus input from youtube.

>> No.1283135

>>1280961
>>1280884

technically an abacus is a computer.

>> No.1283145

>>1283135
I think everyone really means the IC when they say computers, because that's the thing that's exceptionally difficult to manufacture.

>> No.1283245

>>1282295
You need to focus on getting writing implements and papyrus first. Building a library comes right behind securing food, water and shelter.

Information is too easily lost, it needs to be retrievable/teachable if someone dies.

>> No.1283302

>>1280966
This

>> No.1283313
File: 83 KB, 500x424, Christianity.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1283313

>>1280884
>they develop computers in less than 100 years.

No. 2000 people (their offspring) isn't a viable base for this sort of technology. Do agriculture, basic medicine, etc. But build printing presses and make paper. Get your knowledge written down and create a culture of learning and science*. So that in a few dozen generations, your progeny reach the critical mass needed to build computers and the time machine.

*Whatever you do, inoculate your offspring against the Religion Trap.

>> No.1283378

>>1283313
>blaming religion, not rome's financial policy and replacing their native population with foreigners to prop up their tax base, just like we are doing.
The next noble houses will nr companies instead of families. Shit is going to go all snow crash for awhile before we reach diamond age.

>> No.1283627

>>1280911
/out/ and /k/ would do good in the initial stages
/pol/ would be in heaven if they got in a power position. ruling the foundation of civilization? sign me up
/diy/ would be good for building the city
/mlp/ would tame the dinos and then fuck them

>> No.1283628

>>1280915
>iron tools would be cast in clay
that's not how it works anon

>> No.1283639

>>1283627
>/pol/ would be in heaven
Why would anyone invite those faggots, let alone make them kings?

>> No.1283653

>>1280928
>American Indians survived thousands of years without mass farming.
>Mongols survived without mass farming
>Completely ignored precedents.

Farming is not required if you have the knowledge to make a bow/crossbow. You can simply hunt dumb animals that don't fear you at a distance.

>Sea cows
>Dodo bird
>Examples we don't even know existed because they died before anyone thought to name them.

>> No.1283656

>>1281025
>Food and shelter secured.
Jamestown almost died before they ditched communism. They were down to sharing single kernels of corn a day, because people thought shit would be an easy gold rush. Instead, mass starvation.

>> No.1283667
File: 38 KB, 470x470, 1505794119176.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1283667

>>1283378
This dumb fucker am I right? Everything is religions fault, eat shit you godless fag.

>> No.1283683

>>1281024
You're skipping the fact that each animal in an ecosystem fills a certain niche, and that competition from humans would challenge the dominance of many predators. Granted, humans without tools are less effective and less defensible, but we're still evolved to be highly lethal exhaustion hunters. Spearing a few chicken-sized dinos per day shouldn't be too hard, and taking the food supply from the larger dinos would cause their populations to diminish, thus presenting less of a threat.
You seem to think Jurassic park style mass gatherings of predators and pray were the norm, but for what reason?

Also, depending on which part of the dinodays our lucky settlers were sent to, the distribution of threat and prey would be different. They didn't all live at the same time, no matter how scary velociraptors are.

>> No.1283690

>>1283628
yeah but that's how it works in my runescape and those weapons last forever

>> No.1283789

>>1280880
>and eventually, a time machine back home
retard, never is the only right answer

>> No.1283806

>>1283313
>Dark Ages meme
It was actually Christian monks that preserved and advanced technology after bad socioeconomic policy collapse the empire. Also, the Catholic church is historically pro-science and research, they just required you to provide strong evidence to change the status quo

>> No.1283815

>>1283653
>Sea cows
>Dodo bird

>dinosaurs

>> No.1283832

>>1280880
>Primitive technology
>uses fire
Not primitive enough

>> No.1283844

Where ya’ll gonna get the grease for these bearings? Isn’t Fossil fuels are responsible for pretty much all the shit we have today?

Anyways the moment they arrive in Dino land, they will struggle to breath the oxygen thick atmosphere and die struggling to breathe.

>> No.1283883

>>1283844
Plants have been on land emerged twice as long ago as the earliest dinosaurs, and 8 times as long ago as the dinosaur extinction. I don't think we'd have much of a lack of fossil fuels if we landed in the cretaceous period, especially coal. In fact, the only mineral we would't be able to find would be Trinitite.

>> No.1283932
File: 860 KB, 963x936, Treblinka Jimbo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1283932

>>1280884
Granted they were savages, the civilization created in Central America were impressive. It's hard to look past human sacrifice; then again some people have no problem looking past it, yet can't list a single accomplishment of Adolf Hitler's Germany.

NASA.jpg

>> No.1283935

>>1280948
They used all sorts of odd shit until they tried that element. I can't even remember all the weird shit. I think some of it were braided organic fibers from some plant.

>not naming pic related special_forces.jpg

>> No.1283937
File: 108 KB, 790x1000, suggestions.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1283937

>>1280952
>Queen of spades

There is a tire fire waiting for her.

>inb4 no visible Q

>> No.1283938
File: 204 KB, 640x480, 1510987874730.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1283938

>>1280995
why do you waste time asking questions you know the answers to? Why do I answer bait?

1/10.

>> No.1283939

>>1283806
Thank you for quelling the rage within.

>> No.1283995

>>1283935
What you are referring to is Edison's bamboo-filament bulbs. By heating up a piece of bamboo fibre in a low-oxygen high-hydrocarbon atmosphere, the fibre was carbonised and made for an effective filament with a high melting point. However, these early filaments had a negative temperature coefficient and could easily burn out under power supply fluctuations. This was improved on by baking the filaments in a high-temperature oven, a process which turned the filaments into graphite and caused them to have a positive temperature coefficient. These stabilised bulbs could purportedly last thousands of hours.

>> No.1283998

>>1281241
>Have you ever seen the outcome of an elephant herd getting into a farmed field?
In Africa they place hot chili inside elephant dung to keep elephants away from crop fields.

>> No.1284000

>>1283806
>Christian monks that preserved and advanced technology

Arab scholars. After the reconquista of al Andalus, some European rulers had the foresight to save and translate Arabic texts, giving the Western world the Arabic Numerals (try doing an advanced math with Roman numerals), Arabic names of stars and algebra (al-jabr). And coffee.

>> No.1284108

>steel
2 years
>Guns
Like muskets? 2.5 years
>Electricity
2 years
>Lightbulbs
5 years
>Cameras
15 years for old style cameras
>Cars
10 years
>Computers
30 years

>> No.1284355

>>1280959
>finding steel wouldn't be difficult

I see a problem here already.

>> No.1284483

>>1284108
You can make a computer in less than a year.

But it won't be able to play minesweeper. Mechanical computers have been round for centuries. Won't do anyone a lick of good however.

Your estimation of progression might work with 100000 people doing support work and 20000 scientists/engineers... Maybe.

>> No.1286325

I just took linear circuits class at a cc, what comes after linear, I'm assuming non linear, but what other subjects should I get into as a ee major

>> No.1286327

>>1286325
Oh shit sorry wrong thread

>> No.1286407

>>1284000
>arab numbers.

you mean hindu numbers.


all the arab math comes from them acquiring greek, persian, and hindu works.

the monks and priests of europe had their part too. they were only consistently literate population in europe. some monks spent their whole lives doing nothing but making copies of books.

>> No.1286410

>this is the technology board
>not /g/

>> No.1286430

>>1280893
All men, naked, working with their hands. How does that grab ya?

>> No.1286625

>>1286410
It got moved here by a mod.

>> No.1286888

First things first
>secure food, clothing and shelter
then
>metalsmithing
>bows and arrows
>metal tools
>metal weapons
Now you have the upper hand in combat, next step is developing ways to store knowledge, i.e: paper or similar (obviously literal paper is out of the question, you could make do with pergamin).
Rearrange group into a hierarchy, give basic combat training to every group, groups will be sectors of population dedicated to certain skills for instance: metalsmithers, masonry workers, woodworkers, military, ruling group, knowledge keepers.
Then, once you have most knowledge the founding guys had stored, you can start teaching people about said knowledge and use it to improve existing technology, each group will teach and pass down their knowledge onto the next generation so each trade will get more refined and advanced, at this point you could invest in archebuses and blackpowder, also expand your farming and animal keeping to be able to have more population, people should breed like crazy (within food limits) to have disposable military in case of conflict. From then on it's pretty much cruise control if no wars occur and you keep researching and improving.

MOST IMPORTANT AND SIMPLE THINGS THAT WILL MAKE THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE:

Soap making: Contrary to popular belief, the only reason the statistics imply we die less is not because of modern medicine, but because of hygiene. The plague would have never happened with proper hygienical habits.

Scientific method: Pretty much a way to separate bullshit from something real, you avoid muh mystic alchemy and shit.

Ideology: A strong eugenic society that strives to better humans and not merely mantaining them.

>> No.1286895

>>1283105
True story.

>> No.1286900
File: 102 KB, 631x494, 1484477272677.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1286900

>>1281278
Rocket blows a rat up 20 feet in the air
>huge success

Mfw

>> No.1286904

>>1281001
Encino Man

>> No.1286906
File: 100 KB, 432x432, primitive manlet.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1286906

>> No.1286909

>>1280998
>you could just mine lead.

Youtube how lead is mined...

>> No.1286911

>>1280983
Anon you are simply describing real life...

>> No.1286913
File: 81 KB, 334x500, 1506875879858.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1286913

>people get sent back in time as OP says
>the first days, they struggle to adapt, their sugar addicted brain is on a meltdown, they miss twitter
>a few weeks in they start getting the ropes and carry on with a simpler life
>a few months in they realize they feel happier, they have more energy, their interactions are more meaningful and they feel they belong there and are part of nature
>they ditch the idea of going back and live happily taking their knowledge about modernity to the grave, lest it poisons the younger minds

>> No.1286983

>>1286913
10000x this

>> No.1286994

>>1280880
>2000 people are sent through a time machine to the dino days
>they can't bring anything but themselves

They'd be dead due to too much oxygen in the atmosphere (hyperoxia). Perhaps, they could just learn to breath less?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity

Baring that problem and assuming access to ores without needing to travel around the world, (all lengths of time listed are from 0 point to the time it is "invented")

>How long would it take for them to create:
>steel

Usable amounts steel, not just iron, can be made in under 5 years about

>guns

8 years

>electricity

3 years

>lightbulbs

3-5 years

>cameras

2 years (pinhole camera)
50+ years (digital camera)

>cars

15 years (steam)
25 years (electric)

>computers

5 years (mechanical)
50+ (electrical)

>and eventually, a time machine back home

Unknown since this is all fantasy without parameters for a time machine's technology; time doesn't really exist to you can't travel back in time.

>> No.1287009

>>1280933
>discover fire
>use it to hunt, to defeat predators, etc.
>burn down entire continent, rendering it a desert hellscape forever.
>huff gasoline and sleep in the road.

Wouldn't call that a success story.

>> No.1287092

>>1286913
This actually.
With advancements in technology and thus increases in comfortable lives, life has become meaningless for the modern man, and as a result there is not much for us to do. wait a few more years and there will be robots taking what little purpose we had left, thus leaving us with nothing but a superfacial hedonistic happiness of the flesh. I wouldn't be surprised if suicide rates are at their highest in years.

The worst thing is, because of humanitarianism, hedonism, utilitarianism, and other philisophical poisons, the future will be an overcrowded, communistic, meaningless, hell-hole, devoid of God and devoid of purpose. I can guarantee you those 2000 people would all volunteer and there would be an olypics game set up to select the best ones, everyone will want to escape the hell they live daily (or at least the ones who realize that the un-examined life is not worth living, aka: non-normies) and those who do will at first miss the comfort of their previous life, but then never return to that technological hell, knowing what would be to come in advance they would immediately get to work producing texts, myths, etc to warn those to come of the impending doom of the future, arguing agaisnt these philisophical poisons, etc. They would at msot advance to medieval and then stay there, no on knowing of the orwellian future to come would ever want to return there. No sane man, given the choice between a comfortable hell and a brutal heaven, would ever pick the comfortable hell.

>> No.1287097

>>1280880
already done:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9cLR7FHon4

>> No.1287108

>>1280880
>not understanding that the O2 content and temperatures are RADICALLLY different

>> No.1287154

>>1287092
I'm the guy who worte that
>calls humanitarianism "philosophical poison"
>implies being christian
How does that even work? christianity promotes pathological altruism, universalism and race mixing.

For the rest I somewhat agree the modern man is a repulsive, effeminate, subjugated and domesticated aberration when compared to what he used to be. "diy" mentality would, if anything, be a natural and muffled desire to go to the days of yore in which you actually fucking did things yourself with your bare hands instead of it be given to you in a safe cushioned manner with no room for creativity at all, same with survivalism and such, just something clicking right in the heads of the few that haven't become completely domesticated or whose brain hasn't yet fully adapted to this abomination of a farm we call modern life.

Doing a repetitive, meaningless job like a drone in the modern world would never come even close to the feeling of satisfaction your mind and spirit experiences when your life is at your hands and you alone are responsible for your survival in a direct and primal manner. The brain of the ancient man was way more stimulated that the brain of the average wageslave. He had to know about many topics, food preservation, water decontamination, basic architecture, plant knowledge, weapon making, etc. Every skill was related to spiritual and physical survival and was applied, the brain overflowed with joy after succeeding. You took your and your family's security into your hands, you could properly and with a straight face call yourself a man.

Now, in the modern world, nothing you do really matters, little can you change in your enviroment. You are told what to eat, how to dress, what to think, which things are not allowed to be thought and which are, your life is never at stake, you live like an animal in a farm. This life has led to massive effemination because of chemicals and because of castrating men's freedom, men are robbed of being virile,cont

>> No.1287155

>>1287154
many grow with no paternal figure or a wicked paternal figure, they are raised like women, by women, they end up behaving like women, and thinking like women, the best cattle you could ever imagine, they have no drive to fight back, they are effectively tamed and mentally and spiritually cucked. I could go on, but you get the picture.

>> No.1287182

>>1280887
He just bought new land to do it. He probably didn't even own the last one, was just in someones backyard

>> No.1287192

>>1287154
1/?
>universalism
Universalism is a Christian Heresy, just like Aryanism. Recently, some heretical groups parading as Christians have pushed these heresies (Nice-Jesus """Christians""" and Mormons). The Early Church fathers condemned it and so do Christians who know their church history and have read from the church fathers.
>Race Mixing
Lol no, Christianity doesn't condemn it, sure; but that doesn't mean it condones it either. Christianity is aimed at other-worldly goals, not matters of the flesh so it gives no shits about whether your husband is 10% negro or 50% negro. However, Christianity does concern itself with moral conduct, so a wife-beating nigger is looked down on by the congregation for good reason, for they expose their lack of spiritual fruit: Patience and Self-control. If you have a God-fearing negro who loves and respects his wife, and doesn't abuse her. Who acts morally upstanding, then more power to them! The problems with race-mixing come from the cultural clash between parents, and possible psychological trauma. IF you have case 1 nigger, then that will form a psychologically stunted individual, if you have case 2 negro, then it should have little if any negative impact.
>altruism
for the faith, sure. You are implored to bring God's kingdom to earth, and martyrdom is sometimes a part of that action. Preach from birth until bodily death, to sow the seeds of a church, as the fathers did.
Giving to the poor, that is a part of the christian life, but it is never done to bring glory to oneself (as moral busy bodies (SJW's and the like) do). The christian act of charity is done in order to improve the life of others, and is done effectively. You don't jsut throw money at a problem either, you try to fix the problem. You might notice that these "selfeless" busybodies care too much about being seen as good (nice guys) more-so then actually doing good.

>> No.1287195

>>1287154
2/?
Have some C.S Lewis, a very good read if you are interested in beginning your apologetic journey and understndng the wester christian tradition: https://www.youtube.com/watchv=MtTeCyrgjIQ

>For the rest I somewhat agree the modern man is a repulsive, effeminate, subjugated and domesticated aberration when compared to what he used to be.
most definitely. I like to call this Phenomena Psychological Castration. I noticed from growing up in an all-female family that my sisters would constantly condemn my natural male inclinations or actions, asserting them to be a bad thing. It took me until i started to listen to the hope of Jordan peterson (that meme of a man) and hearing the promise of man-hood, that a began to grow some balls (metaphorically, psychologically) and began acting like a man. I started to stand up for what i felt was right, regardless of how other though; i began to work towards goals in spite of what others tell me, because i am the master of my own destiny and i should not wait for a approval by my peers in order to do what i want, etc.
Now here i am, wealthier and more successful, getting education for a career in STEM and doing boxing as a hobby. I've never felt more alive in my life!

I think that with the force of feminism pervading schools and such, schools, homes, and every other growing-place of the young boy has been perverted into a woman-only zone, so most men are forced to adapt and transform into soy-boys because they are not allowed to act or think as they were made to by God! Its a reversible process though, but the first step being the hardest requires the promise of a more fulfilling life then the empty one that is the modern man's.

>> No.1287197

>>1280881
reminder that generations are created by and for marketing purposes and are completely irrelevant in determining what level of ubiquitous retardation any group of people display

>> No.1287198

>>1287192
>>1287195
Good God. You know, nothing says "this Anon has serious, manly balls" like brevity. Just saying.

>> No.1287199
File: 2.97 MB, 2063x3095, 'David'_by_Michelangelo_JBU0001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1287199

>>1287154
3/?
>Doing a repetitive, meaningless job like a drone in the modern world would never come even close to the feeling of satisfaction your mind and spirit experiences when your life is at your hands and you alone are responsible for your survival in a direct and primal manner.
definitely this. As good and pragmatic as capticalism is, its gretes fault is its demand for efficiency, which gets in the way of individual work satisfaction. Men build because they want to have something they can look back upon and call their own. Look at david, when Michaelangelo made him he took no breaks and no short-cut to construct something so beautiful. There is a great liveliness is that made by one's own hands. He put his blood, sweat, and soul, into what gave him the fulfillment of having made a legacy for himself.

>He had to know about many topics, food preservation, water decontamination, basic architecture, plant knowledge, weapon making, etc.
this as well, a well-cultivated mind is a path to happiness, as it fulfills one of the base needs of the human mind: mindfulness. That is why it is encouraged to use the literature that surrounds you to learn more about the world, and never delay in learning something new. I'm doing some CS for a degree, but i also plan on writing a few books,and possibly getting involved in politics. I also plan on starting my own miniature hydroponics system using an arduino and some other gear in order to grow some of my own food (to decrease the bill, though only slightly). I'm thinking peanut.

>Every skill was related to spiritual and physical survival and was applied, the brain overflowed with joy after succeeding. You took your and your family's security into your hands, you could properly and with a straight face call yourself a man.
I agree 100%, not much to add to this. You know those hipsters (nu-males) right? who do ironic masculinity? Do you think, deep down, they realize they are less than a man, an incomplete person?

>> No.1287201

>>1287154
4/?
>Now, in the modern world, nothing you do really matters, little can you change in your enviroment.
That's wehre i have to disagree, play your cards right and take some risks, and there are many things that you can change. All it took for hitler to become the furher was dedication to an ideal that at the time was being attacked form all sides. For this he can be admired, to struggle through each and every difficulty with a determination to see his goal through.
>You are told what to eat, how to dress, what to think, which things are not allowed to be thought and which are, your life is never at stake, you live like an animal in a farm.
Rather Orwellian world we live in, lets see if we can stop it, yes? We can rebel, and that has serious social implications, but the worst they can do is kill me. The ideas i spread in life cannot die, ideas are eternal.
>This life has led to massive effemination because of chemicals and because of castrating men's freedom, men are robbed of being virile
Exactly, but it doesn't have to remain that way. Alphas still exist, and to become one requires nothing more then to fight for what you believe in. To quote my favourite poem yet: "God save thee [anon], from the fiends that plague thee thus!"

>> No.1287202

>>1287198
I have a lot to say.
If you want a tl;dr though:
tl;dr - Be a man, the worsst they can do is kill you. Learn about Christianity, the memes spread by the left and right are dishonest jewery against it. Live a life of purpose, and God bless you anon!

>> No.1287213

>>1287192
>>1287195
>>1287199
>>1287201
Regarding christianity, my views are incompatible with the christian faith, I'm very racist and nationalist and I'm swift in setting apart a negro from my kind no matter how god-fearing he is. For I believe it is my kinds right to remain as pureblood as possible, have its own culture unbastardized and live in social and racial harmony. Many races have something to gain when mixing with Whites, but Whites have nothing to gain with mixing with others, they only lose. This doesn't mean some things in christianity are incompatible with my beliefs, just that on the bigger part we are off.
>but it is never done to bring glory to oneself (as moral busy bodies (SJW's and the like) do).
I fully agree on that numale, sjws, and cucks in general have no desire to genuinely help and they only do so for looks and vanity. In fact, they don't think things thorough. They let millions of arabs into their countries to looks like they help, when at the same time they condemn their own people to crime and rape committed by those same arabs. Maybe they don't even care, since being White is being the devil as of now.
>most definitely. I like to call this Phenomena Psychological Castration. I noticed from growing up in an all-female family that my sisters would constantly condemn my natural male inclinations or actions, asserting them to be a bad thing.
Fully expected, you who have experienced this, extrapolate exactly this to the educational system with all those female teachers, same castration occurs, I have tales of my childhood that would make you believe I'm making things up, I don't even know how I got through all that brainwash, I can only explain it in that due to natural selection I had it in me to be immune to such thing, or maybe it's because I have a 3 digit IQ and I can call bullshit when I see it.
I couldn't tell if women do this because it is in their nature to avoid testosterone prone behaviors cont.

>> No.1287215

>>1287213
or they geniunely feel envy and want to put the male down, sort of slave morality in nietzsche.
>definitely this. As good and pragmatic as capticalism is, its gretes fault is its demand for efficiency, which gets in the way of individual work satisfaction. Men build because they want to have something they can look back upon and call their own. Look at david, when Michaelangelo made him he took no breaks and no short-cut to construct something so beautiful. There is a great liveliness is that made by one's own hands. He put his blood, sweat, and soul, into what gave him the fulfillment of having made a legacy for himself.
Nothing can beat passion, a passionate enough man will go without eating until he finishes the work his passionate about, I have experienced this myself at how much my performance differs when I'm forced to do something I don't really want than when I do it out of interest and passion.
This is the difference between the man of old and the numale, the numale works his wage job with boredom, the man of old had passion, for his life and the future of his family depended on it.
>this as well, a well-cultivated mind is a path to happiness, as it fulfills one of the base needs of the human mind: mindfulness. That is why it is encouraged to use the literature that surrounds you to learn more about the world, and never delay in learning something new. I'm doing some CS for a degree, but i also plan on writing a few books,and possibly getting involved in politics. I also plan on starting my own miniature hydroponics system using an arduino and some other gear in order to grow some of my own food (to decrease the bill, though only slightly). I'm thinking peanut.
Agreed, I do have many and varied interests myself.
>I agree 100%, not much to add to this. You know those hipsters (nu-males) right? who do ironic masculinity? Do you think, deep down, they realize they are less than a man, an incomplete person?
I think they do deep down, cont.

>> No.1287217

>>1287215
but they will NEVER admit it, their mentality is that of the slave in slave morality, look:

"Masters are creators of morality; slaves respond to master-morality with their slave-morality. Unlike master morality which is sentiment, slave morality is based on re-sentiment—devaluing that which the master values and the slave does not have. As master morality originates in the strong, slave morality originates in the weak. Because slave morality is a reaction to oppression, it vilifies its oppressors. Slave morality is the inverse of master morality. As such, it is characterized by pessimism and cynicism. Slave morality is created in opposition to what master morality values as 'good'.

Slave morality does not aim at exerting one's will by strength but by careful subversion. It does not seek to transcend the masters, but to make them slaves as well."

They are not able or think they aren't able to become a full man, a virile man, they either don't want to put the effort or are just too far deep they soyboy hole. Therefore they hate us, they hate everything masculine and regard it as toxic. It's the old sour grapes thing but they actively hate the grapes and fuck with them. From their powerlessness comes their hate and envy. If they can't become a man, no one should ever do it.
>Rather Orwellian world we live in, lets see if we can stop it, yes? We can rebel, and that has serious social implications, but the worst they can do is kill me. The ideas i spread in life cannot die, ideas are eternal.
Things are looking bad in this regard, if you go as "far" as making certain comments on social media, you can get jailed, let that sink in.

As a side-story: This year I went to university (humanities faculty), the enviroment is absolutely disturbing, feminists and feminist propaganda everywhere, 99% of males there are soyboys, you can tell just by seeing them talking and using those homosexual effeminate mannerisms, classes felt like they were made for retards. cont.

>> No.1287223

>>1287217
A lot of useless blabber, retarded assignments whose only intention was making you busy, might as well make me move rocks from one place to another. The propaganda posters were really something, I recall one being of a badly drawn female, naked, touching her vagina with one hand and her nipples with the other and it said "we women give birth to a new world", pretty scary. The rest was the usual poison, refugees welcome, anarchist poster (or rather, their sjwized version of it). One day feminists there covered a full corkboard with pictures of their vaginas, apparently, that fights the patriarchy or something I don't know, I cringed and wanted out of there as fast as possible. And that's the coming generation, that's the future, I dropped out eventually because I stopped attending. And I don't think I'm ever going to an university even again. Academia has been womanified and jewified, I even saw a literal female jew in there, curly hair and an horrifying nose included. It makes you want to rip your eyes out.
My main focus as of now is self-improvement, no matter mental or physical, completing projects and such.

>> No.1287226

>>1283313
anyone unironically posting that image should be shot immediately

>> No.1287244

>>1287213
part 1
>Regarding Christianity, my views are incompatible with the christian faith
never said you had to be one Hans, just recommended it. Also, as i said before, Christianity is completely agnostic to the question of race-mixing, because frankly we do not care about skin.
If you want to continue your race, go right ahead! I'm not stopping you, you do you bro.
>racial culture mixing
now this is an interesting topic. Do you think the reason other races benefit from whites is because of Western cutlure in general, or because of more primal genetic factors? Personally i think its something to do with culture, as the Romans were the civilized world when the pagan nords were mass-immigrating into their land, raping their women, etc. It seems until Rome came (and Christianity with it) nords were sub-human wiggers. Maybe i'm wrong though, whats your take on it?

>In fact, they don't think things thorough.
defnintely not. "foresight, whats that? a new Starbucks coffee?"
>Maybe they don't even care, since being White is being the devil as of now.
its very interesting. SJW's are the anti-Racist. They are racist, but they are self-hating racists. Its like a nazi who hates the fact that they re white, or a negro who hates that they are black. Doesn't matter, hating your own race is unhealthy.
You can see this in the self-flaggulating white-privelage idea in sociological circles. (interesting thing to note, this sociological thing started as a splinter ideology of communism, pitching for race rather than class).

>> No.1287245

>>1287213
part 2
>escaping castration
yeah, i think it really has to do with holding a view of critical analysis. My contentions with modern philosophy and attraction to 4chan came when i started asking questions (as i naturally do) and started getting flak for that. "Why is it that men and women operate differently, didn't mrz rose say that mena dn women are indistinguishable?", etc.

>I couldn't tell if women do this because it is in their nature to avoid testosterone prone behaviors, or they geniunely feel envy and want to put the male down
why not both? It seemed that they look from a womanly perspective and thus neglect or are incapable of understanding what it is to be a man, so they put that behaviour down and write it out as "pooor conduct" rather than "boys being boys".

>the man of old had passion, for his life and the future of his family depended on it.
and that spirit lives on. I have discovered that the path to happiness is to work a job you are 1. Good at, and 2. Passionate about.

>Agreed, I do have many and varied interests myself.
really? i always thought my multi-directional preference was a product of my ADHD, but perhaps having a multitude of interests is natural?

I realize that nu-males have this sort of condescension towards the past "those were dark times, etc", yet the complete man looks back on history with a fondness and wariness (a sort of nuance) that the nu-male lacks.

>> No.1287246

>>1287213
part 3
>I think they do deep down, but they will NEVER admit it, their mentality is that of the slave in slave morality.
I'm not a fan of Nitchzean philosophy, i think he got very few things right (if any). But that's an argument for another time.
I think it has more to do with how the normie mind copes to a lack of self-actualization: "Its X's fault, I was unable to do Y", and actions like never asking why they aren't happy (because that would require being miserable for a while and acknowledging short-comings and failure), instead opting to blame everything but them-self. You can see this behavior in both male and female feminists, they use feminism as a superficial crux to try and make themselves feel better, yet never ask what is right, or truly pursue what they believe in. There's a reasons so many of them are slacktavists, they truly don't care, they just want to cling to something to try and give them a distraction from their sub-par life. Truly miserable creatures, God help them.

>Slave morality does not aim at exerting one's will by strength but by careful subversion. It does not seek to transcend the masters, but to make them slaves as well.
Nice! IT hit the nail in the coffin on what i just said, very nice! In essence, their problem is that they don't try to fix themselves or improve, they just try to bring everyone else down.

>> No.1287247

>>1287213
part 4
>They are not able or think they aren't able to become a full man, a virile man, they either don't want to put the effort or are just too far deep they soyboy hole. Therefore they hate us, they hate everything masculine and regard it as toxic.
I'm actually involved in a discussion with an anon who regards masculinity as toxic on /his/. I abandoned that convo and made him wait for me because i got things to do (like respond to you quick, take a shower, and sleep). I can buy this idea though, soy-boys are jealous of men (it really shows, like whenever these betas try to mimic an alpha they over-compensate because they don't understand moderation or what makes an alpha alpha). I think to some degree they cannot transcend their lowly state because they refuse to. Like how satanists, knowing the good-will of God, refuse to escape the shackles of their hedonism, and hate the joy of the Christian, never understanding that the reason said Christians are happy is because they avoid doing what satanists do! Its the blind leading the blind.

>Things are looking bad in this regard, if you go as "far" as making certain comments on social media, you can get jailed, let that sink in.
oh, i'm fully aware of the hell we live in. I don't worry to much though, I trust that God would never allow any evil so great or grave befall us that it cannot be overcome (i think this is the ultimate philosophy behind the phrase "there is no problem so great or grave that cannot be much diminished by a nice cup of tea", when you know God is in control there is very little horror left in the evil of the world).

>> No.1287248

>>1287213
part 5
>This year I went to university (humanities faculty), the enviroment is absolutely disturbing, feminists and feminist propaganda everywhere, 99% of males there are soyboys, you can tell just by seeing them talking and using those homosexual effeminate mannerisms, classes felt like they were made for retards.
I've been there man. Strange thing though: the lib arts uni i go to is Christian, half the professors there are red-pilled af. So far i have encountered 2-3 tried-and-true libtards out of the 11 professors i have met so far. The students are much more liberal then the professors it seems. Furthermore, a classmate i knew from high-school met me, we recently got to talking and the guy has undergone a full 180 philosophy after taking PolSci with my red-pilled Philosophy prof. I love Christianity.
Because its a Canadian campus, provincial reforms have forced it to have an LGBTQ center, Safe Space, and gender studies class. That i am disappointed in, in fact the uni news-paper had an entire article pushing propaganda piece after propaganda piece in favor of homos (unsurprisingly, the majority of students and faculty did not take it well). Feminism is like a parasitic fungus on the body of Christ, it has infected the feet and it is making them rot, yet the rest of the body rebels against it (though ever-quietly). Let us hope that a schism comes soon before that infection enters the blood, yes?

>> No.1287249

>>1287213
part 6 - final part
>The propaganda posters were really something, I recall one being of a badly drawn female, naked, touching her vagina with one hand and her nipples with the other and it said "we women give birth to a new world", pretty scary.
yeah. Its not nearly so bad up here, but its getting pretty nasty. One art student posted a period (blood and all) as her art-work, it didn't stay up for long though, funny that :^)
>I cringed and wanted out of there as fast as possible.
>Honestly, things aren't nearly as bad here.

>I dropped out eventually because I stopped attending.
I wish you the best with your endveours, be successful and happy brother.

>> No.1287394

>>1286407
>some monks spent their whole lives doing nothing but making copies of books.

Scraping off the writings of Archimedes' calculus and copying down prayer books.

>> No.1287440

>>1280894
Seconded

>> No.1287561

>>1280915
>lightbulbs within a week
Are you actually fucking retarded or just pretending?

>> No.1287563

>>1280967
You're using AUS an example of success?
Have you seen an abbo?

>> No.1287614

>>1280971
It's somewhat the other way around.

>> No.1288205

>>1280909
Damned Ukrainians.

>> No.1288211

>>1284000
The arabs were the ones who burned down the library of Alexandria to begin with and took the scriptures to Baghdad for study

>> No.1288540

>>1280955
>inventive, aware, cohesive
uhhhhh

>> No.1288615

Depends on who and where, hat's off to the primitive technology guy but any retard can build a wattle and duab shelter, food and water is what will fuck people over. They have one week to master what would have been taught and practiced over your entire youth. Early humans only survived because of the generations above them.

>> No.1288654

I sometimes think about with what i could come up if sent into the middle ages or something.
The the first step would be making metal and then steam machines. For electricity you need a generator, which relies on magnets. No idea where you should find magnets. With electricity it gets a lot easier to power machines (after building the fist electric motor of course) and start the industrialization.
Computers rely on rare materials so it could take a while to find semiconducting materials. Guns should be pretty easy if you know what you are looking for (blackpowder of some sort).

>> No.1288666

>>1287182
He didn't own it. He said in an older video that it was his friend's property.

>> No.1288677

>>1280959
For gunpowder you wouldn't even need to worry about sulfur as long as there is some kind of primitive iron mining industry. It'd be low quality and you'd need higher quantities, but iron oxide, sugar, and carbon can make an effective blackpowder.

>> No.1288784

>>1287249
How do I learn more about this stuff? What denomination are you?

>> No.1288786

Maybe it's superstition but my phone never works when I try to phone post. 4chan (perhaps rightly) blocks phone posters.
>>1288784

>> No.1288868

>>1288677
>sugar
That's not cheap. The idea of using iron oxide as your oxidant is fine in theory, until you realise it will be as hard to ignite as thermite and leave a mess of molten iron and slag within the barrel, if the barrel can even withstand pressure at that temperature. I assume the combination of sugar and carbon is to lower the activation energy barrier while providing material to produce gases.

But all in all, potassium nitrate isn't hard to get, neither is sulfur, which can be isolated from galena, cinnabar, or any other sulfide ore.

>> No.1289015

>>1280959
12yo Minecraftfag detected.

>> No.1289025

>>1280993
Newton may survive in the wild. Not completely unrealistic that, given the time he lived in, he knew the very basics of hunting and how to make fire.

I wouldn't bet on a turk to achieve that. And some nigger from Accra or Timbuktu who stole or searched the junkyard for a living? I don't think so.

>> No.1289246

>>1289025
>given the time he lived in, he knew the very basics of hunting and how to make fire.
You should probably at least read a synopsis of his early life before making an assertion like that.

>> No.1289411

>>1280880
The atmosphere was way different back then, anon. There is no way that they could survive.

>> No.1289889

God damn, people in this thread are stupidly optimistic. Personally, I think that people will either die from hypoxia, or prehistoric dino-super-AIDs. However, lets say 10% survive, the very luckiest (this is also an optimistic figure). How do you think these people are going to sustain themselves? They need a) food, b) shelter, c) water, just for starters. Water can be boiled. Sure. As for shelter, that can be erected fairly easily (until something stupidly huge knocks it down, of course, or until your local supply of hunting and gathering resources are out and you need to move).
Food is the main problem. You've got 200 people at this point (at best), who know nothing about the plants or animals of this world. Remember, they might well be around before FLOWERS, even. So, how do they know what to eat, and what to avoid like the plague? Answer? Trial and error. Of course, you could say "well, the meat shouldn't be toxic to them", and I agree, it isn't going to be toxic in most cases. However, one cannot just live off of meat for more than short amounts of time, before all sorts of deficiencies take hold like scurvy for example, and then, eventually, death. So, they will need to have plants to eat.
"FARMING!" is the answer lots of people in this thread have said. Good luck with that, without any crops, any knowledge of what's edible, no starting open spaces, mega-fauna fucking shit up, and so on and so forth. The list goes on. Either way, farmings basically a non-option at this point.

>> No.1289890

>>1289889
So, from starvation, bad water, and poison, lets say another 100 die, leaving you with 100 people left. Because of the whole "we need to hunt and gather", these people would probably be clustered in small groups of 1-10, perhaps as far as hundreds of kilometres away from each other, with no well known landmarks, and no agreed upon area in which to range so that they don't peter out on their own. Over the next year, 50% of the population dies, due to the aforementioned reasons, and a few others, such as winter and FUCKING DINOSAURS! This leaves your noble 2000 to a scattered, starving, diseased, terrified, cold, and dying, after only 365 days in the Mesozoic era, numbering at a total population of 50 (if they're very, VERY lucky), scattered to the winds.
Even if, somehow, they managed to regroup, you have to keep in mind, the estimated number of humans needed to keep a viable genetic population is predicted to be around 5000. The grand total of pre-historic humanity is 1% of that. After a few more years, chances are there's no humans left at all, or maybe, there's a a handful of survivors, murmuring about their old world. After a century or so, maybe there are still humans somewhere, but chances are, there wouldn't be any murmuring: it could be, that the degeneration could spread so far as to annihilate language itself (though, I doubt that things would go that far if anyone made it more than a few generations, languages have a way of sticking around). On an even more depressing note, since OP said "alternate timeline", this means that humankind never even evolves, and that these people scraping out a precarious living would be the last Homo Sapiens to walk the earth.

>> No.1289892

>>1289890
Of course, this doesn't answer OPs question in a satisfying way (beyond, "never"), so it's likely that things on the level of the youtube channel he mentioned would be reached almost immediately, and maybe even primitive metallurgy (so, copper and gold) could be attained and crafted. Bronze would be impossible, given the trade needed for the minerals. Crude iron tools could MAYBE be made, from sources such as bog iron, MAYBE. It's very unlikely. So yeah, earthenware and stone and copper and leather and plant fibre cloth would probably be the height of tech.

>> No.1290190

>>1289889
Actually there would be no viruses to attack humanity at all, since viruses typically have to evolve to be able to attack a specific type of cell in a specific species; why we can't catch cat flu. Bacterial infection is another matter, but penicillin (or equivalent) shouldn't take more than a few months to discover if you put some effort into it.

Also you can solely live off animal products, just look at the northern Inuit that get their vitamins and such from liver. Not that it's a preferable situation to find yourself in. If fruit are around then that's a good thing, but either way you'll have to see what other animals eat. If a lot of them eat one thing you can safely assume that they haven't developed an immunity specially to eat it, making it safe for people too.

As for technology, it all depends on the organisation of the people. If they can establish a town of some sort with walls to keep out the nasties and can get enough food nearby then that will allow the infrastructure to begin increasing in complexity. The problem is getting to that point requires farming. Farming animals shouldn't be a problem, but finding things akin to grains, fruits, and vegetables is again a problem. Prehuman vegetables and fruits were much smaller than what we have today, so it might take quite some effort to find something that produces a large enough yield. But there definitely are primitive fertilisers that could be used to help this.

>> No.1290511

>>1280880
>steel
Steel can be done literally with rocks, mud and wood if you know how. Won't be a lot of it per batch and the composition will vary wildly between batches, but it will be steel. If you have the resources to keep at least several people dedicated to this task and all the raw materials, weeks to months tops.
Probably a good idea to skip bladed weapons altogether (not tools though) in favor of having enough steel for guns, so that you can kill the dinos more efectively and conquer the land faster.
>guns
once you have enough steel, you can make the required tools to make the forging tools and to begin gunpowder production (probably skipping black powder and going straight for nitrocellulose-based propellants), so IDK, a year tops from the point they have reliable steel production?
(however because of all the handwork involved, they would be very expensive)
>cars
same as guns, only needing a fuckton more steel for all the tooling. With only 2k ppl, you'd need to make a big-ass foundry and steel mill to have enough steel stock. Single digit years from first steel and first gun.
>electricity
Depends what for. Just demonstrating the principle is easy on the materials, but actually making something it do something useful for you - much harder.
About the same time as the foundry. Probably needing another foundry for copper (and a copper ore mine...), possibly even building it BEFORE the steel one, so you can equip it with electrical tools, as that would ramp up production by orders of magnitude.
Cheap and plentiful steel would also mean cheap guns and cars, boats and aircraft (you can skip wooden and all-metal planes and go straight to composites), so the age of dinos as the apex predator would probably come to an end.
At least 10 years.

>> No.1290515

>lightbulb
an incandescent bulb -. about the same level of tech. as the car. Ditto for gas discharge arc lamps. LEDs are a different story though. 15 years tops.
BTW by now your population should have at least doubled and the new generation is old enough to start having offspring. Geometrical population growth, new cities, roads...
>cameras
film cameras - same as car and lightbulb
Digital ones obviously require a computer.
>computers
Depends on what qualifies as a computer, as they can be both analog or digital, mechanical or electrical. Mechanical ones are car-era tech. Digital ones are lightbulb-era.
Tiny solid state stuff might take as much as 20 years.

All of this is only with all the resources available, no diseases that wipe out all your population and that they remain a functional society.

>> No.1290562

>>1281012
>bicycles only work well on paved roads

>> No.1290669

>>1290562
yeah lets dedicate 5 of the 2000 people to making pneumatic tires and in their spare time they can work on suspension technology.

>> No.1290694

>>1289890
By viable population those are referring to humans that are comparable to modern humans in disease, intelligence, and longevity. In such a situation as our scenario you can incest as much as you want. Doesn't matter how the dumb or messed up they are that are born. All that matters is getting to sexual maturity.

>> No.1290704

>>1290190
So it's optimistic that animal products wouldn't be toxic, there's no reason why animal products wouldn't be as toxic as the plants are.
For example, most carnivore livers are toxic to people.
Similarly, penicillin is a pipe dream. The trick is finding a toxin that will kill the bacteria but doesn't affect people. Also, the penicillin mold had been, in essence, bred for centuries to be non-toxic because it was used for cheese-making. Also, a lot of early antibiotics had major side effects that could kill people.

Antiseptics are definitely possible though, as is general public hygiene.

>>1290511
This could be literal years of prospecting to find steel veins for the correct rocks.
Gunpowder is a major industrial endevor, remember, no metal tools. nitrocellulose is a laugh, how the fuck are you going to purify the nitric acid? also, alfred nobel started the nobel prize because he felt guilty about all the people he killed over the years with dynamite factories blowing up, and those were SAFER than gunpowder manufacturing.

Y'all are aiming WAY too high. The best portrayal I've seen for technology uplift is the 1632 series, and they started with MASSIVE advantages that you aren't positing. For example they already started with tools and a reference library and a town.

Computers are a pipe dream, it'll take years to code compilers from binary to get to the point of the basics, even once you get to vacuum tubes and transistors.

>>1290511
Bladed weapons ARE tools. bows are much MUCH cheaper than guns in terms of infrastructure, and slings moreso.

>>1289889
gathering and herding is probably more realistic an option. But that would make it difficult to build major infrastructure.

>>1289890
meh, humanity came back from about 50 fertile females at one point. Of course, it's also why we're super cancery: because we're so inbred.

>> No.1290711

>>1283937
>Being this obsessed

>> No.1290770

>>1280990
>Writing degenerates the mind and memory
>Yet Latin and Greek orators could recite thousands of years of their history, mathematics, biology and philosophy with the added benefit of being able to keep track of it so it doesn't change every 5 months due to misinterpretation, deliberate or otherwise
>Same goes for any other culture with writing

Nah. Germanics are just subhuman niggers and (literal Jews in the case of the (((Anglos))) ). They were worse off that the Iranian steppe-niggers of the time, believe it or not.

>> No.1290809
File: 166 KB, 200x150, *Tips Fedora*.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1290809

>>1287394
>>1283806
Yeah, that's why Thomas Aquinas and Scholasticism exist (you know, people that were inspired by Ancient Greek philosophers like Aristotle and the like along with mathematicians such as Euclid), along with the modern university/college structure, you euphoric idiot. You don't have to like religion (I'm not religious myself), but don't make an ass of yourself when you don't know shit.

>> No.1290845

Most likely 17-18th century technology in less than 3-4 years. Thats the break point when industrialization and specialized minerals and chemicals are needed for more advanced technology. The 18th century was pretty much the height of "standard" resource technology. Resources that could be had easily, with shallow mining.

>> No.1290847

>>1280880
In an experiment with a handful of scientists, they advanced to the iron age in two days.

>> No.1290877

>>1290704
Nobel felt guilty for his legacy of "tools of death" (namely all the explosives and initiators used for war), not because a couple of his factories went boom. His own brother died in an research-related explosion FFS...

Black powder factories are indeed very prone to explosions, since the last step of manufacture is having to wet-grind the already mixed powder again (leaving this step out produces a very inferior powder) and sometimes it's just not wet enough - that's when the building gets scattered.
Nitrocellulose on the other hand does surprisingly well in terms of manuf. safety. Using dirty nitration acids will result in a less stable product, not an explosion when you're making it.
You're thinking waaaay too big, the first smokeless powder "factory"would be small (since the hand-forged weapons would be very expensive to make), no need for steel tools. Given that the people would possess ALL the current knowledge, they can either select the best process they know of or have the knowledge to come up with a new one. Keep in mind that in the days of Nobel's exploding factories, chemistry was far less understood.

Last but not least - on the bottom of my post I specifically state that ALL resources have to be readily available. Obviously if you manage to end up in a place that has no magnetite near or on the surface, the first steel will be considerably delayed.

>> No.1290921

>>1290809
That's a bowler hat, you absolute inbred.

>> No.1290930

>>1290704
>most carnivore livers are toxic to people
If you're looking for vitamins, you're not going to be eating carnivores.

>> No.1290945

>>1290921
>I posted a gif with the wrong hat
>I guess I'm BTFO out even though my main argument is still correct
Who the fuck cares?

>> No.1292222

>all this people saying that guns, fucking nitrocellulose gunpowder and lighbulbs would be a few years away

Are you literally retarded? Like, in all seriousness, are you? Or perhaps you're a minecraft kid?

There's a LOT of shit that can go wrong, you CAN'T advance that fast in a lawless enviroment you fucking mongoloids. Weak scientists that can't make a single pushup can't work the earth, can't gather the resources, can't do physical labor. You need other to do it. What will you offer these other people? Do you have food to spare? Are you swimming in fucking food, commodities or whatever? Why will they go gather some kind of ore when they could be hunting or fucking? You could argue that those 2000 people would start with high morale and focused on a single objective, but so fucking what? Time will erode that, some people will stop giving a fuck anymore, some people will give in to instant gratification, etc.

How the fuck are you going to have the necessary resources to even make a fucking lightbulb? Making an archebus that doesn't blow yourself to hell would be hard enough, and you are talking about nitrocellulose gunpowder? Are you fucking retarded? Do you know the quality of steel required to withstand nitrocellulose gunpowder pressures? ALSO, CARS IN 10 YEARS? SERIOUSLY? WHAT'S NEXT? AN SPACE PROGRAM WITH ROCKETS AND ALL ON DAY 2?

You need an actual cohesive society, with values and common beliefs, and good resources as payment, so instead of hunting and fucking, the physical labor guys turn to work and gather your shit. You need an actual authority force that can deal with people robbing your gathered resources and that can prevent you getting your head javeline'd. Use your fucking brain, this shit is not easy, to have this you'll need wars and conflicts, that's how peace were made in the ancient world, when people who complained were all killed and then peace remained.

>> No.1292239

>>1292222
Assuming you have a cohesive society, designing a steam engine isn't too hard at all if that counts as enough of a car. The rest of a basic car is trivial in comparison. Water-wheel powered metal lathe with a file would be all that's necessary to make the piston and housing, and all that remains is the engineering of the seals and some decent casting tech. Heck, even a single steam-turbine version would work well enough provided you could gear it correctly.

And assuming that a society full of today's scientists and engineers would kill themselves instead of manning the fuck up and putting on the muscle is a little pessimistic of you. Provided they aren't Marxists that is.

>> No.1292240

>>1292239
>And assuming that a society full of today's scientists and engineers would kill themselves instead of manning the fuck up and putting on the muscle is a little pessimistic of you.

>Provided they aren't Marxists that is.
Bingo, if you haven't noticed, we live in the soyboy era, in the period between normalization of cuckoldry and the oncoming normalization of pedophilia.

>Assuming you have a cohesive society
And this is the entire point of my post, you won't since you won't have the required conditions on a lawless enviroment with 2000 people.

The flaw is thinking this is a videogame in which everybody will do your wishes and that they are literal robots with no problems or desires of their own.

>> No.1292268

ITT: Anons that don't know that the one thing that sets humans apart from other apes is our willingness to help each other for at least delayed repayment, if not for nothing at all. We do that Anons, we help each other, whether you, sitting here on your computer being edgy because it's funny, like it or not. It's what propelled us to the top. Well, that, the opposable thumb, and walking upright; but mostly the working together. There would be a cohesive society with agreed upon laws almost instantly. It's been that way as long as there have been modern humans.

>> No.1292270

Well anons, most of you assumed they'll just teleport 2k random scientist into dino land.
They need to be properly trained years before it happens. Like astronauts. They'll train in survival, team work, hunting, field work, all that. They will all have predetermined multiple jobs with the training necessary to adequately replace a dead colleague.
I mean let's say they do the same experiment without the dinos, they do it now in the jungles of India. Would that work? Will they survive and evolve? It's still 2000 fucking people and the logistics of feeding and sheltering those is a fucking nightmare. But they might do it, they do have chance. And if they do it now, they might as well do it then. I mean in the now one of the biggest minuses would be health care, with all those viruses and sickness and infections they could catch. In the back then you replace that with dino danger.
They might be ok. If they start developing as a society somewhere in thick forest on a mountain slope they might be able to avoid big dinos and flying menaces, that removing the immediate need for powdered guns, making them able to concentrate on something else.

But I still think the first few months will be a nightmare.

>> No.1292285

>>1292268
Other apes do work together.

>> No.1292307

>>1280887
CodysLab shows you how to refine a few things. Pretty good channel as well, covers many areas.

>> No.1292316

What was around when America was founded that would be beyond the capabilities of these 2000 people?

If we are assuming some of the people have knowledge in specific fields (geology, metallurgy, botany) then it shouldn't take more than 250-300 years to do everything America has done.

Also, without other countries to defend from, couldn't you focus more energy directly on research and development?

They could probably do it faster if the first generation had lots of kids and they were thoroughly educated. Exponential growth would be an ally.

>> No.1292321

>>1280880
As long as you send one that has the flu and another with gastro-enteritis... they'll wipe all and go vegan.

>> No.1292333

>>1280887
>>1280889
>>1280965
he is trying to create a furnace that will let him reliably create iron. he has said so several times in his descriptions.

>> No.1292473

>>1280955
None of them besides /K/ will make it a day without help from /an/ or /sci/. Somebody has to teach those fucks about husbandry and natural hazards. Somebody also has to teach them basic chemistry and physics.

>> No.1292478

>>1281004
>>>1281003
>>He could sell microbrewed mead to local bars at high prices
>I could see this happening.

This needs to be a TV show:

Ulrich works his way up from a homeless time traveller to the boss of his own multimillion dollar mead factory. All while constantly suppressing the urge to crush his enemies and hear the lamentations of the women.

>> No.1292689

So much pessimism. You realize human existed for thousands of years in pretty much the same environment they would be heading to.

How long to create XYZ:
Within 1-5 years rudimentary versions of almost everything could be made.

Ore can be refined, albeit in low quantities.

a gun is just a projectile launched via gunpowder explosion. You could probably construct a pipe shotgun in less than 5 years then just improve on the basic design.

Cameras were pretty basic when they came out. A box or can with a pinhole and the right medium can make a Rudimentary image.

Everyone is taking this as: when do we get digital cameras and semi-automatic rifles, but that's not what OP asked. Simple versions of all these would probably happen within 100 years. This obviously depends heavily on the knowledge and quality of the people sent.

>> No.1292718

>>1292285
They do, but only when there is an immediate quid pro quo. We do it sometimes simply because it's the "right thing to do," and often for return help that may not come for weeks or months. We also have no "alphas," like it or not.

>> No.1292975

>>1280880
they'd need a dimensional travel machine to get back home, not a time machine

>> No.1293012

>>1280880
are they white?
are they atheists?

>> No.1293045

>>1292268
Imagine being as out of touch with reality and as brainwashed as this guy.

Did you do peyote or something?

>> No.1293049

>>1292718
Definitely peyote.

>> No.1293059

>>1280886
I think its quite funny that we was just a thousand subscribers then all of the sudden hes channel exploded and got millions of subs.

>> No.1293246

>>1292270
>They need to be properly trained years before it happens.

This.
But what you also need to consider is that the first generation of 2000 will not achieve much more beyond subsistence survival. Maybe iron age technology with an advantage in basic biology (won't have to re-learn that drinking the village poo water causes cholera). Come the next generation, most of the more advanced knowledge of the first group will be lost. Unless it gets written down and a culture of science and education can be created. Subsequent generations may have to be told to skip over the parts of the library dedicated to quantum physics, microelectronics and software. Until society has grown to the point that a manufacturing base can be supported by the economies surplus.

So, in addition to survival, the first generation will have to build a library. Before half of them get eaten by the velociraptors and knowledge is lost forever.

>> No.1293312

>>1280894
Tribes advance into feudal realms as a matter of course, which I think is the most idea as long as they stay fairly small, pop a crown on a galvanizing figurehead for more broader fraternity and continental defense.

The Black Plague reduced too much of the population and gave peasants too much political leverage and we paid for it with the seeds of the enlightenment and (((egalitarianism))).

>> No.1294699

>>1283639
Because they would be masquerading as faggots from /g/, and say that they would be the ones making technological advances in order to watch their animes with the most up-to-date media player and the best shaders

>> No.1294713
File: 60 KB, 370x228, 400px-Survivor.borneo.logo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1294713

>>1280880

>> No.1294942

>>1280890
>Nigs launching satellites
The Nigerians have already launched a satellite.

>> No.1295996

>>1294942

actually the chinese launched it for them, the nigerians just controlled the satellite. didn't last long though, it failed about a year after it was put up.

The best part? Guess what the nigerian space command is called.

NigCom.

>> No.1296022

>>1280895
The smart thing to do would be to make the 2000 men with their advanced technology a sort of demi gods which bless the lesser folk with knowledge on basic medicine, refined metals (no weapons, just pots and shit), one main language, and in exchange the non advanced folk would be more willing to help acquire resources.

Also, you'd need a militia. If ancient folks don't think you're gods, then they'd think you're devils.

>> No.1296025

>>1280925
You'd need slavery. 2000 as the ruling class, trusted elites among the ancient people's, groups that refuse to be subjugated into slaves who are also entitled to all the benefits of modern knowledge.

>> No.1296325
File: 2.45 MB, 363x330, image.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1296325

>>1280881
In high school I was a TA for the shop teacher.
>student doing woodwork
>needs to nail some shit
>holding hammer right under the head
>"Anon, I can't get these nails to go in"
>show them how to hold the hammer
>"That's what the handle is for, see? Leverage"
>"Ohhhh I see..."
>"anon, what's leverage?"
Fug
>student with long hair not tied back setting up a piece on a lathe
>wtfareyoudoingtheteacherlecturesonshopsafetyallthetime
Good shop teacher though, old school but his face was
>his smile and optimism, gone

>> No.1296404

>>1280890
No, but they were rocket scientist and made the cabibiliy of blowing all that other gay shit up

>> No.1296422

>>1280880
I doubt 2000 would get beyond steel.

Hell they won't even create a blast furnace and I even doubt them making a water powered bloomery.