/diy/ - Do It Yourself

You haven't seen a blacksmithing thread yet? Did you start lurking here this morning?

nope been here for a while just might not ave been at the right times lol anyway just thought id get one going >>119477

sweet anyone got any pointers on cable damascus?
iv been haveing trouble getting a billet going btw using a charcoal forge

>>119513

I dont know what the hell a billet is but im guessing youre not able to get it hot enough or something? I had the same problem when I was forging a railroad knife with a charcoal forge, the more mass of metal you have to heat up the harder it is going to be, if youre having a lot of trouble you might have to move up to a propane or natural gas forge

>>119513
You need to clean that shit and cover it in flux. Also more BTUs.

How can I make my own natural gas forge. Is it cheaper than running a propane forge, because I can just get a tank of propane filled for 8 bucks.

>>119513
>A team of researchers based at the Technical University of Dresden that used x-rays and electron microscopy to examine Damascus steel discovered the presence of cementite nanowires and carbon nanotubes.
>nanowires and nanotubes
>before 1750

It's a pitty nobody is able to reproduce damascus steel the same way it was made centuries ago.

>>119847
>It's a pitty nobody is able to reproduce damascus steel the same way it was made centuries ago.

Except that's wrong. See Verhoeven, Pendray et al.

Also even with NANOTUBES, Damascus steel was inferior to modern day high carbon steel. In fact most of the benefit did not come from alloy segregation which is usually seen as a bad thing in industry, but from the fact that it was high carbon steel compared to European's mild steel.

>>119844

theyre both pretty cheap because they are near the same molecular composition, natural gas may be a bit cheaper, if you could get a gas line rigged to your forge id do that because its kind of a bitch to go out and get propane tanks

>>119856
I know this may be stupid, but where can I get cheap natural gas?

>>119869

dont you have a gas line in your house? Like how do you heat your house? If you dont have one itd be cheaper just to get propane

>>119847
nah, not true. I'm a trained blacksmith 5+years of experience, Iv made Damascus knives jewelry etc blacksmithing skills havnt changed that much in the last 2000 years

>>119876
I have two woodburning stoves, so propane would probably be a better investment. Though I always have a very ample abundance of wood.

>>119472
Check the sticky, there's some good blacksmithing links there for all the FAQs.
>>119838
>>119513
To be more informative about this; in order to weld well, you need heat and you want steel that's coated in silica. If the steel is not hot enough, it will not flow together. If you do not have silica (or silicate or whatever the the term is), you will probably get bubbles and scale in your weld.

Carbon steels reach welding temperature around 2600F or 1500C. You need between 450 and 550 BTU per square inch of forge space with a gas burner. Coal fires are open-air but reach higher temperatures more easily. A coal fire needs to be bright yellow to white hot to heat steel up enough to weld. When steel is hot enough to weld, it will start to throw off sparks, like the cake sparklers; just a few at first, then more, and then it will melt and all your work will be ruined. It's a fine line that takes practice to recognize. Heat it to yellow first, then sprinkle dehydrated borax on it; this will form a glass sheath around the steel and improve the weld. You _can_ weld without it, but it's harder.

When the steel is nearly fizzing with sparks, pull it out of the fire, lay it down, and just go to town on it. Hit it hard and fast and accurately. This also takes practice. When it stops fizzing, you can no longer weld it; put it back in the fire.

Pic related; set of 8 welded-ring pins I did last year based roughly on a 9th century anglo-saxon design.

>>120213

holy crap, how the hell do you get your steel that hot, when I was forging my RR spike I was only able to get it up to around cherry red to orange

>>119884
Same here (wood stove). Gas wise propane is the go unless you have natural gas connected. Super dry hardwood coals may work if used with a blower but coke is the thing.

inb4 cocacola???

>>120222
Better question: Why would you want it that hot? Orange is a work color. Fizzy yellow is burned steel.

>>120229
Bellows or blower plus (in my case only marginally) bituminous/metallurgical coal. It'll hit 3000F and melt steel no problem. I don't know why your RR spike couldn't get hotter, but a) unless you were welding, that's a fine range to work with, b) more metal takes longer to heat and cool. It depends entirely on your fire. Coal, gas, wood? You need air blowing through it to get it really hot.

>>120222
Fizzy is welding colour. I was responding to a question about welding. I work at cherry red-yellow, just like everyone else.

Somewhat related:
How does someone make charcoal?

Ok, more specifically, what is the exact method?
i know the concept of wood in a container, heated, charring, driving off gases and such but never see a practical example.

>>119847

Remember your last camp fire? It shat out numerous carbon nanotubes and buckyballs.

Nanowires and nanotubes form naturally all over the place. It is not unusual to find them in forged carbon steel. It is only when you purposefully form large stable structures out of them that they may contribute something meaningful to a material.

>>120330

Heat the fuck out of it but don't let oxygen get at it and burn it.

You can accomplish this easily by putting it in a tin with one small vent hole, then stick the tin in a fire. Gases (eg: water vapor) will be escaping from the vent quickly enough that it won't let enough oxygen inside to burn the material.

You'll know it's done when the quantity of gas escaping has sharply subsided. Remove from heat and allow to cool. Do NOT open the container before it has cooled or the charcoal will instantly burst into flame upon introduction of delicious oxygen.

>>120345
Just FYI I thought it was interesting that they first made Graphene by peeling sticky tape off a carbon block!

>>120330
Afaik the traditional method was burying burning wood. Here's some guides with pictures.
http://www.twinoaksforge.com/BLADSMITHING/MAKING%20CHARCOAL.htm
http://e-charcoalmakingprocess.blogspot.com/

I'm jealous, I always wanted to get into blacksmithing but I live in literally the middle of nowhere so it's impossible to get anything and I'm too damn lazy to find out what a "starter" would need.

>>120469
$25 propane/NG burner bottle (pic related), ball pein hammer, and a smooth rock. Wear eye protection, make sure your shoes are done up and your pants are over top of the openings.

If you like it you can upgrade to a chunk of rail for an anvil, build or buy a venturi burner for <$100, and a kaowool-lined or firebrick-built forge for <$50 that'll run off a BBQ propane bottle.

In my city the railroads have shut down but new tracks were placed, this means that the workers that made the new track left (literally) PILES of railroad spikes EVERYWHERE, I figured I could make some use of them, I assume they're made of straight iron considering they're rusted to hell.
Good material for ironworking?

Also, how do I take care of the rust? just a WD-40 bath?

>>120528
Don't worry about the rust.

It'll come off as you forge it.

>>120528
Yes, RR spikes are _the_ modern blacksmith "thing I used to forge this knife/tool/art." It's high-carbon steel, which means you can heat treat (to R60+ish afaik) and temper it, and it's considered _trash_, which means it's free. Great stuff. Also, they're not "straight iron." High-carbon steels still rust, _stainless_ steels (with, iirc, chromium added) don't, or rust less. That's why you line sheaths with wool (lanolin seals the blade) or oil your katana (/weeaboo).

Anyway, check the sticky for blacksmtihing how-to/faq stuff.

I'm making one into a chopper this weekend, to use for harvesting pine resin for whittle tang knives. I'm kind of bootstrapping; I'm forming the handle out of the split tang, then using pine resin to stick handles on further knives. I'll post pics if I get it done, and done before the thread dies. Maybe I'll take pics of the whole process, actually, and make a /diy/ guide.

Just created my own forge out in Okinawa, having trouble getting the metal to retain it's heat after getting it to cherry out. Using charcoal forge, cheap 1400 degrees Celsius hand torch for spot heating. About how long have you guys been able to keep the metal hot without having to stuff it back in the forge?

>>121180
tl;dr: Size and heat.

The larger the piece of metal is, the longer it takes to heat up and cool down. The hotter the metal is, the more time you have before it cools down below a workable temperature. Cherry red is the _minimum_ working temperature; you can get it to orange-yellow and you won't be causing it any damage (besides increasing grain size, but that can be addressed when heat treating it).

Metal doesn't _stay_ hot. With practice, you just learn to swing your hammer faster and more accurately while it cools. The difference between a noob and an expert isn't in how long the steel stays hot- that's a universal constant- but in how much work they get done in the 5-10 seconds the piece is workable. (a master can keep a small piece red by hitting it hard and fast, but that won't work for detail, planishing, larger pieces, etc.)

It also helps to have your hammer in your hand, your anvil right next to your fire, and to know exactly what you're going to do when you pull the iron out. That third one comes with practice, but the first two prevent you from wasting half your heat while you're dithering and picking out a hammer and waving the piece around.

Oh, one last thing- the anvil sucks heat out of a piece. Don't pull the iron out, and don't lay it on the anvil, until you're ready to hit it. Air is an insulator; a piece that stays hot 6 seconds in the air will cool in 3-4 if you place it on the heat-conducting anvil.