Vegan: eating things that have sensory perception is wrong anti-Vegan: Eat whatever you want as long as its not a horse, dog, cat or person I'm not a Vegan but I don't see how anyone really has a valid argument against them.

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Anonymous Wed Nov 29 00:56:19 2017 No.9764422 [DELETED]

Vegan: eating things that have sensory perception is wrong

anti-Vegan: Eat whatever you want as long as its not a horse, dog, cat or person

I'm not a Vegan but I don't see how anyone really has a valid argument against them.

>>	saged Wed Nov 29 00:57:08 2017 No.9764425 Groan, another food politics thread. Hidden ;)

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 00:58:21 2017 No.9764430 I would try horse meat

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:01:06 2017 No.9764437

>>9764422
They should be thankful, without domestication of animals, the developed state of existence we have, including the extensive 'non-sensory' food production that veganism relies on, could never have existed. We would at best have simple hand-dug farms, and only in small regions where the soil was soft and fertile enough to allow mere human power to farm it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:02:03 2017 No.9764441 >>9764422 why not let animals live until old and then just shoot them in the head and eat them? quality might not be the best, but youre not really interupting much.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:02:23 2017 No.9764442 >>9764430 horse meat isn't good

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:02:42 2017 No.9764444

Livestock can be raised humanely and profitably and won't experience any negative sensory perceptions if done properly. By abruptly changing your diet to a vegan one you are not only risking your own health but by taking profits away from farmers and abattoirs you'll steer them towards practising cheaper and less humane methods.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:03:17 2017 No.9764447 >>9764422 You forgot Ultra-Vegan: I don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:03:54 2017 No.9764448 >>9764422 Is that Sam Hyde?

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:05:05 2017 No.9764452

>horse
Horse is pretty good
>cat, dog
Gee, i wonder, it's almost like western culture doesn't treat them as a source of meat. The phrase "man's best friend" exists for a reason.
>person
It's almost like cannibalism is not natural

The biggest argument against vegans is vegans who won't shut the fuck up about being vegan

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:05:30 2017 No.9764456 >>9764444 damn, nice japanese death quads

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:06:02 2017 No.9764458 >>9764447 look up meta-ethics sometime brainlet

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:07:41 2017 No.9764461

>>9764422

And OP, I don't think Penn is a vegan now because of ethical concerns about killing lobsters and shit--it's because his health was fucking horrible. He was having to have an ambulance crew at his shows to give him O2 in breaks between tricks because he was so out of breath. His doctor told him he wasn't going to live to see his kids graduate high school, so he had to make a drastic change...and he did.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:07:56 2017 No.9764463 >>9764458 meant for quadsboy >>9764444

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:08:45 2017 No.9764465 >>9764458 Look up "The Simpsons" sometime, fucklord.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:09:11 2017 No.9764468 >>9764461 I just posted him because he's the original trashman and it kind of makes more sense to post thin-Penn given the subject matter

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:10:46 2017 No.9764472 >>9764463 >>9764458 Explain your point instead of telling me to read up on an entire philosophy. This is a brainlet argument

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:13:58 2017 No.9764478

>>9764468
yeah, it's cool. His story is pretty interesting, though. He wrote a book about losing all that weight quickly and in a healthy way.

He basically went to a 100% potato diet for a few months, then slowly transitioned to vegan. He's pretty clear in the book that it's about what foods he finds appealing now, and not because he's worried about the suffering of clams or whatever.

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:19:31 2017 No.9764492

>>9764472
the morality of a behavior isn't based on whatever the current practicalities of the situation happen to be. In this case we're discussing how sentience effects the viability of creatures for eating. That has nothing to do with some contrived doomsday scenario no matter how plausible it might be.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:23:08 2017 No.9764504 >>9764492 and even proceeding from your scenario, we could still say things like pigs are too intelligent to be farmed for food

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:27:25 2017 No.9764508

>>9764461

I work in healthcare, doing xrays and CT scans at a hospital. Seeing very obese patients is both sad and disgusting. Like, sad, because they have all these health problems and complications that are 100% avoidable. I mean, seriously. If you're way overweight, it makes every aspect of your healthcare more complicated. It's harder for the anesthesiologist to figure out how much of a drug dose you need. It's harder for the surgeon because he's got to go through 8 inches of tissue instead of 4. It's harder for the xray tech because your fat makes for more scatter in the image, which means the pictures are foggier--and then its harder for the radiologist and surgeon to see what they need to see. And then after all of that, it's harder for your CNA to help you bathe because you're less mobile and have all these folds of tissue that need to be cleaned.

And it's disgusting because it's 100% preventable. Much of it is a question of self-control...and what isn't is stuff that can be helped by your doctor.

So yeah, when I get a 1400+ pound (not really sure, because the built-in scale maxed out at 1400 lbs) patient, it's really, really hard for me to work up a lot of sympathy. 100 years ago, you'd either be dead because the doctors had no idea how to control your rampaging diabetes, or you simply wouldn't be that big because there'd be no way you could get that many calories a day to get to and maintain that weight. And dude, don't tell me it's some sort of metabolic thyroid issue when your family members are telling me you can eat 3 bags of potato chips and an entire bucket of fried chicken during an episode of The Walking Dead.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:30:48 2017 No.9764518 >>9764504 >>9764492 What's immoral about animals being raised for slaughter if they can't possibly comprehend their fate and are rendered unconscious before slaughter? You sound like you're confusing sentience with sapience by the way

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:30:56 2017 No.9764520 >>9764508 fat people are disgusting

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:32:16 2017 No.9764523 >>9764422 Some plants have sensory perception. Some are even capable of motion.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:33:07 2017 No.9764528 >>9764518 So why would it be any different if you did this with a dog? What if you just kept breeding people in an unlit room and gave them zero stimulation? Oh hey cannibalism is ethical now, cool.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:34:33 2017 No.9764534 I had the option to try horse sashimi and an izakaya the other night, and I wretched at the thought, then politely declined. Was I right to do so? Not sure I'd even eat it cooked, but raw sounds horrendous.

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:36:06 2017 No.9764543

>>9764528
It wouldn't be any different with a dog. People dont eat dogs because they give fuck all meat. Animals are naturally only sentient, yet you're comparing that to forcing sapient humans into being something less than human. If you are under 18 at the most ill excuse your stupidity but if you are any older you should consider suicide

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:41:53 2017 No.9764559 >>9764543 >muh sapience You give humanity way too much credit (you're surely a Christian, right?). A human entirely deprived of mental stimulation is just as dumb as an animal.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:46:21 2017 No.9764577 >>9764559 What does that have to do with you thinking forcing a human to be as dumb as an animal to be raised for slaughter is just as morally righteous as raising dumb animals for slaughter?

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:50:43 2017 No.9764586

>>9764577
I don't because I'm saying there is nothing fundamentally ethical about eating any meat as far as I can tell though I'm still going to keep doing it. Your argument was basically blindsiding the thing you're going to eat makes eating it ethical. We're not even on opposing sides because I would love to have a firm ethical standard to substantiate meat consumption but "Spot is my best buddy" isn't going to cut it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 01:58:06 2017 No.9764605 >>9764586 You seriously don't know what you're saying, or at least the implications of it. How old are you, serious question?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 02:01:13 2017 No.9764612 >>9764437 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-KUbflnMEs

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 02:04:12 2017 No.9764616 >>9764447 So, technically, you just eat everything at night or in places with no lighting?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 02:05:50 2017 No.9764618 File: 71 KB, 600x600, CXVKPAjVAAAORPL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9764605 >How old are you, serious question? This is never a serious question

>>	chop Wed Nov 29 02:14:34 2017 No.9764636 >>9764612 That show was like 30 years ahead of its time

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 02:15:35 2017 No.9764639 I would eat people if it was easier to get away with.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:10:03 2017 No.9764744 >>9764639 I am a vegan and i would eat some people.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:22:19 2017 No.9764770 >>9764422 >horse Horse sausage are pretty good >dog, cat 99% not breeded for consumption, also carnivores, so probably bad tasting >person Possible prion contamination, like Kuru

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:22:37 2017 No.9764771 File: 1.69 MB, 423x234, 1510554500686.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9764744 you're the problem with Veganism as a community

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:22:43 2017 No.9764772 >>9764616 No, the ultra-vegan guy was referring to eating algae and yogurt.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:26:26 2017 No.9764779 Plants have sensory perception tho

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:27:09 2017 No.9764781 >>9764779 So do you, and I'd eat your ass like groceries.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:27:33 2017 No.9764782 >>9764779 Plants don't have a CNS and are certainly not sentient.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:28:31 2017 No.9764784 >>9764782 Yet they still respond to stimuli. They're not fully sentient, but neither are they unfeeling.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:31:35 2017 No.9764786 >>9764784 their also willy, that chlorophyll smell that plants release when cut or picked? yeah that's a signal to predators that here be herbivores

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:39:52 2017 No.9764796 >>9764508 There was one person who weighed 1400 pounds and they died in 1983. Your scale is miscalibrated, dumbass.

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:45:54 2017 No.9764809

>>9764437
What about the argument that our population is too big and the amount of farm land needed to maintain livestock and cultivate crops to feed said livestock is becoming/has become destructive. Not to mention the amount of co2 produced by livestock is hurting the environment. So one way to reduce the impact of these global issues without drastically reducing the human population, is for everyone to be vegan so we don't need so much farm land and so much livestock?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:47:12 2017 No.9764811 File: 83 KB, 600x536, 1511891148203.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Veganism On my list of shit I don't tolerate and moving higher the gayer they get. At this point I wouldn't even tolerate an employee being vegan, let alone a friend.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 03:50:50 2017 No.9764816 File: 41 KB, 400x366, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9764811 Careful not to cut yourself

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:10:53 2017 No.9764863

>eating things that have sensory perception is wrong
Let's consider the life of an average cow or chicken. They seem lack self preservation or determinaton as they are unable to survive in the wild as they are domesticates animals. That means that if we we're to release the population of cows and chickens into the wild they would die of starvation, or by generally being dumb fucks. So what can we do about it? The species itself is designed for consumption so the only thing we could do is also artificially select the species into something that CAN survive in the wild, which neess to be done in a way to don't disturb the local ecosystems. This is not something we know how to do.
>argument for marginak cases, you wouldn't kill a down syndrome do you?
No, obviously not, but mental retardation is not equivalent to a cow. Consider however a human in some sort of vegetative state that will die if left alone. I would consider euthanasia a viable option which shows that in marginal cases you can have humans that is morally correct (or at least it could be argued) to terminate their lives.
What are things we can do?
>Use humane ways to kill them and also secure that they don't live in agony for prolonged periods of te if it can be avoided
>Reduce our consumption of red meat so that farmers don't have to chop half our forests.
>Think the argument for more intelligent and social animals such as pigs

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:12:42 2017 No.9764871 >>9764422 Normal person: I won't post the same fucking tired old thread on /ck/ because that would be retarded. OP: HERF DERF COCKS COCKS COCKS

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:14:24 2017 No.9764874 >>9764508 I love watching that 600lb life show just to see those "I don't know how I got this way!" fucks as they cram an entire pizza down their maw hole.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:16:30 2017 No.9764880 id eat horse, dog, cat or a person if it was prepped correctly

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:17:29 2017 No.9764884 File: 249 KB, 904x573, 1399416-bueno[2].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9764874 >mfw a vegan or whatnot will never, EVER reach this level because veganism by defintion is malnutrition

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:18:56 2017 No.9764888 File: 41 KB, 800x479, america.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9764508 >>9764874

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:35:44 2017 No.9764921 >anti-Vegan: Eat whatever you want as long as its not a person ftfy

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:38:47 2017 No.9764933 Some plants have demonstrated sensory perception. Molluscs have not, to my knowledge.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:40:00 2017 No.9764938 >>9764888 I'm waiting for an episode where the doctor just starts beating someone with his golden stethoscope.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:48:47 2017 No.9764978 >>9764437 Just because something has had some positive effects doesn't mean it was right though. It's like arguing that slavery was right because it allowed America to develop and grow faster as a country

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:50:44 2017 No.9764986 >>9764933 Are you retarded? Snails are a mollusc, all you have to do is poke them to see that they have perception

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:53:57 2017 No.9764999 >>9764422 >anti-Vegan: Eat whatever you want as long as its not a horse, dog, cat or person No, eating horse is totally cool with me. dog too, if done humanely. Why would you eat cat though? it tastes bad and has parasites

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 04:55:06 2017 No.9765004 >>9764442 yes it fucking is fuck you. we'd eat horsemeat every christmas night on some bread and it was delicious.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 05:07:02 2017 No.9765029 >>9765004 used to be like a few percent of english ground beef until just recently. id only wish id known before hand so id be able to savor it

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 05:09:00 2017 No.9765035 File: 171 KB, 640x350, hannibal the cannibal.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9764921 >humanitarian: eat whoever you want

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 05:25:00 2017 No.9765067 >>9765029 yeah and it's your fault that this ridiculous idea that horse meat is bad was created, cause your media likes to scaremonger. Horsemeat is much nicer than some low quality cow

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 05:27:16 2017 No.9765077 >>9765067 thats because the only horse you enjoy is the horses we breed, feed and sneed, you pleb.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 05:28:49 2017 No.9765083 >>9765077 nah, shitty workhorse shot and ground up is still great

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 05:28:58 2017 No.9765084 >>9764448 it's penn jillette after his all potato diet - I wish I were kidding

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 05:30:27 2017 No.9765086 >>9764422 >vegans are better than you, everyone! >not a vegan btw :^) >reddit spacing Ya know what really gets peoples' attention? Suicide. Try bleeding out in a public place while crying about oppressed livestock.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 05:31:34 2017 No.9765087 >>9765084 >I wish I were kidding why?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 05:32:21 2017 No.9765088 >>9764422 wow, i dont remember this in the rear window

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 05:37:04 2017 No.9765098 >>9764422 Why is eating pussy and horse forbidden?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 05:50:02 2017 No.9765122 >>9765098 gotta skip the middle men, no point having you between chad and stacy

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 08:09:46 2017 No.9765354 >>9764978 >implying colonialism was wrong in the first place

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 08:13:22 2017 No.9765355 File: 9 KB, 393x246, - 1510233754277 -.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9764422

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 08:14:29 2017 No.9765357

>>9764422
>I'm not a Vegan but I don't see how anyone really has a valid argument against them.
I'm not a vegan either but I can respect them even though I disagree on how to fix certain issues. I think cultured/lab-grown meat and other animal products is a better solution than trying to turn everyone vegan.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 08:15:55 2017 No.9765361 >>9764618 Loving every laugh when underage b& faggots get btfo

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 08:16:14 2017 No.9765362 >>9764422 You're an utter faggot, you don't "see" shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 09:30:35 2017 No.9765508 >>9764422 I don't eat what I respect.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 09:32:32 2017 No.9765512 >>9764422 penn is not a vegan.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 10:05:26 2017 No.9765592 >>9765357 that is a fine take to have but (as a vegan) i find it hard to believe that you can't reconcile your moral beliefs with your food choices. if you really believe something, you should practice it

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 11:01:44 2017 No.9765764 File: 21 KB, 600x628, kf95KQoh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9764508 Fuck fat people.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 11:22:22 2017 No.9765827 >>9764422 real anti-vegan: do i really give a fuck about what you eat? that's the real difference there, kiddo also, your pic is very related to our instance

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 11:28:42 2017 No.9765840 >>9764422 >>9764442 horse is delicious. most people dislike it because it's fibrous. you can make great stews or sausage out of horse meat. you people just don't know what's good

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 11:34:01 2017 No.9765858 Why do people still engage vegans? This militant cult has been doing this bullshit for at least 20 years still don't just immediately ignore them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 12:57:29 2017 No.9766120 >>9764441 Because that would hugely increase the cost of meat.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 12:59:34 2017 No.9766126 >>9764447 max goldt rules

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 13:07:53 2017 No.9766143 >>9766120 This. Not to mention, older animals tend to be tough & the meat doesn't taste very good.

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 13:11:27 2017 No.9766157

>>9764422
Valid argument: human beings have carefully cross-bred cows, chickens, and pigs for the sole purpose of not going hungry. For thousands of years, people went hungry, until we figured out how to have a reliable food supply. We've figured that out, and cows and pigs and chickens taste good.

Humans are the top of the food chain on the planet Earth. Fuck you cows and pigs and chickens. If you had the brains to eat us, you would.

Hell, just talking about it, I'm tempted to eat some venison chili, or go to Ted's Montana Grill for a bison filet, rare as fuck, with lots of onions and mushrooms.

it's a dog-eat-dog world, and we happen to run the planet, and have established ourselves as the top of the food chain. Why wouldn't I eat a deer that shits on my property, or smoke the ribs of a baby pig that eats my scraps? It's nature's garbage disposal.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 13:18:23 2017 No.9766184 >>9766157 So you have no desire to be better than animals who just follow instincts and have no morals?

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 13:22:35 2017 No.9766201

>>9766157
>smoke the ribs of a baby pig
Because the saturated fats are killing you and filling the minor vesicles of your brain with atherosclerotic tissue scarring making it so that you think "fuck you cows" is a valid argument against a moral argument of doing no harm. "we can, so therefore we should". Literal meatheads, everybody. You can also kill yourself, and I hope you do.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 13:23:45 2017 No.9766205 >>9764884 >Potato Chips and soda aren't Vegan

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 13:34:55 2017 No.9766239

>>9766201
All of us are dying, all the time. Will you somehow stave off mortality by just eating lettuce all the time? Look at a pig. That pig is going to fucking die. It's mortality is an absolute fucking fact. That pig can have thirty-minute orgasms to produce more pigs while it's alive, but wouldn't it be wasting the resources that our caveman ancestors spent ten thousand years developing?

The whole history of human beings is agriculture, and that means domesticating animals too.

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 13:40:45 2017 No.9766253
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>>9764422
My biggest gripe is that most vegans narrow it down to a nervous system and feelings from it etc.

The topic doesnt put humans at the top of the importance list, it works only with what we understand which is why mussels and plants are a contentious topic in vegan discussions.

>alien race visits earth
>we are causing them pain to their nervous system by simply existing
>its ethical for our species to die
>its the correct choice to self genocide morally
>we will never achieve what they have and we cause them pain
>so die

Or

>aliens visit and have no nervous system
>its moral to kill them because they dont feel pain
>have no damage receptors
>terminating their life is morally the same as terminating a plant

The topic of the discussion needs to not be about the nervous system, and instead be about people. Because something feels pain is not a good enough reason to not harvest it. That is why we still do. Because someone in a coma who is paralyzed and cannot feel anything still has value is because they are human.

We like animals that have a companionship to us and assist us. Its a human discussion, not a nervous system one. Its all emotional - people try and make it scientific but eating animal products is strictly a positive for your diet (talking about options and variety of potential nutrient sources - not a debatable topic). So scientifically and without emotion we should be setting up more and more animal farms. Emotionally this is disturbing.

Personally I only eat fish but dont care about animals. If you own a dog feel free to beat it, its not human and you own it. I wouldn't kill nor eat most animals because I feel bad. My feelings should have no weight on what you are allowed to do.

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 13:43:44 2017 No.9766264

>>9764422
im a non vegan/vegetarian and i am aware of different eating habits in different cultures.

eat cats and dogs all you like, i´m from western germany we used to eat horses (until it went out of fashion)

Vegan: eating things that have sensory perception is wrong

anti-Vegan: Eat whatever you want as long as its not a human in a non survivalist setting.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 13:44:29 2017 No.9766266 >>9764422 vegan food is the true patrician food, it's expensive, hard to make and only a few people want to eat it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 15:53:03 2017 No.9766769 >>9764422 Horse is great. Still eaten around some rural parts of Europe. Would love to try dog and cat.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 16:25:01 2017 No.9766883 >>9766253 >Because someone in a coma who is paralyzed and cannot feel anything nope

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 21:37:41 2017 No.9768133 >>9764430 sane as deer isn't "good"?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 21:39:41 2017 No.9768143 >>9764772 root vegetables don't cast a shadow...neither do factory farm meat. veal and potatoes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 21:42:41 2017 No.9768154 >>9764771 and the general idea that omnivorous mammals should only be vegan. i'm all for ethical meat, reducing meat consumption, but pretending that we can/should live happily on a third of the diet that we've specifically evolved to tolerate is bs

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 29 21:52:42 2017 No.9768200 >>9766883 Do you know how sad I am that after five hours the only reply is a vague annoyance with my appreciation for comatose humans?

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 22:00:42 2017 No.9768246

>>9764437
I dont think this is valid. Fossil fuels allowed the industrial revolution and the science required to develop cleaner energies. But we know now that they are harmful. Just because something is bad or destructive or unethical, does not mean it isnt a necessity for progress.

Anonymous Wed Nov 29 22:01:19 2017 No.9768250

>>9764978
>It's like arguing that slavery was right because it allowed America to develop and grow faster as a country
That's arguable, considering slaves were just used as cheap labour for cash crops to export back to Europe, and didn't really contribute anything valuable to American expansion. All the industrialization and economic growth occured in the north where slavery was illegal. In fact, one could argue slavery was actually detrimental to the progress of the nation by creating an agrarian plantation based economy in the south that was generally adverse to progress and industry and discouraged immigration and expansion.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 00:09:11 2017 No.9768682 >>9764508 Working in health care and seeing these people leeches of the system is sad as fuck. Most of the time they have mental issues or social issues as well such as feeder enablers, undiagnosed autism (female) and much more

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 00:32:10 2017 No.9768760 >>9764884 I dunno, you can get pretty fat consuming nothing but mango and liquor.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 00:55:31 2017 No.9768834 >>9768200 about as sad as i am. you took 5 hours to think i was annoyed at your appreciation, instead of realize that comatose people still feel and think

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 00:59:37 2017 No.9768849 File: 363 KB, 5000x5000, are we here just to suffer.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9768760 >20 shots of vodka and 7 mangos a day >or >12 mangos a day and 10 shots of vodka

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 01:00:59 2017 No.9768853

>>9764422
I would eat the meat of any non-shittier (eg rats) mammal other than human or anything too closely related to humans (eg monkeys, chimps, ...). I'd probably eat most any bird. I don't like fish so probably wouldn't eat that and I'm assuming reptiles and amphibeans would be similar. Insects and sea creatures disgust me so I would not eat them.

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 05:33:34 2017 No.9769562
File: 1.99 MB, 332x215, niggerless.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9766157 the virgin carnivore
>thinks he is masculine for eating meat
>adheres to the dietary equivalent of a jacked up pickup truck
>limited capacity for empathy and abstract thought (probably autistic or just retarded)
>treats weaker animals than himself the way bullies treated him
>probably has a small dick
>is a flyover
>statistically obese and thus full of estrogen
>calls others soyboys
>has never read a book since high school

the Chad vegetarian
>not autistic
>eats dairy and eggs because the moderate path is the most sustainable
>can still find entrees at 98% of restaurants anywhere in the world
>statistically high IQ
>socially normal
>diet never interferes with life or health status
>statistically not fat
>instant social acceptance among liberal college-aged girls
>reads philosophy and science
>doesn't need to prove his masculinity because no one has challenged it

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 05:47:15 2017 No.9769590

>>9766253
The only reason vegans and vegetarians talk about nervous systems is that it's the only /known/ method of consciousness on Earth. If that fact changes, then the criteria will change with it. The ethics go beyond just diet. A non-animal diet is just one of many conclusions that draws from this kind of ethics. For example, one day computers will be able to think. I think it would be unethical to create one without being prepared to treat it like a child.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 05:48:38 2017 No.9769593 File: 50 KB, 800x450, 297.png.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9769562 Get out of here with your reasonable point of views, I'm here to take an extreme position and fight about it from a position of ignorance

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 05:52:57 2017 No.9769606 >>9769590 >For example, one day computers will be able to think No, they will simply be able to respond to inputs in a way that we won't be able to distinguish from what we call "thinking" Lrn2 Chinese Room problem

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 05:58:42 2017 No.9769627

>>9769562
>eats dairy and eggs because the moderate path is the most sustainable
then you should be eating moderate amounts of meat instead of totally removing it from your diet. chickens and cows still end up being slaughtered once they stop producing so much.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 06:01:24 2017 No.9769637 >>9769627 /ck/ thinks a moderate amount of meat is only twice a day. The reality is if we weren't raising animals solely for meat, people would be eating it maybe twice a month

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 06:02:06 2017 No.9769641

>>9769606
>Lrn2 Chinese Room problem
That hypothesis was from decades ago when artificial intelligence research stagnated. At that time, image recognition was considered an impossible problem. Now you can do reverse image search on trillions of images in milliseconds.

There is literally no reason computers cannot think unless you think your brain possesses some magical intangible spirit that cannot be replicated on a machine. It is mathematically provable that any computation can be done on computers, and biology tells us that the brain operates through computations. It is just a matter of time and effort before computers can think. There are no physical limits preventing it.

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 06:20:45 2017 No.9769676

>>9769641
>technology is getting better, therefore thinking isn't real
At one time, people believed if a woman drove a car too fast her uterus would fall out, what's your point? Chinese Room isn't a "hypothesis", it's a thought experiment. It applies regardless of the current state of computing capabilities.

A computer responding to inputs in a way that tricks us into confusing its activity for thinking"is like a kitten that evolved into mimicking the sounds of a baby crying in order to manipulate people into giving it food. No matter how much Meow Mix you give it, that isn't your infant and doing that is not going to spread your genes. And no matter how many images the captcha collects, OK Google isn't and never will be a person. Saying "wow Google is kewl" doesn't change the facts. Saying "tech will get better" doesn't change the facts. The A in AI actually stands for something, anon-kun.

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 06:34:41 2017 No.9769709

>>9769676
The Chinese Room hypothesis was debunked. It means nothing in 2017.

You are assuming the only way a computer can be sentient is by pretending. Why can't a computer do functions similar to an organic brain? What makes organic brains so special? Souls? LOL.

A consumer may not be able to tell whether a computer is thinking or just pretending to, but the researchers who developed it would know. It's not exactly guesswork. They'd know exactly what they are doing. A thinking computer isn't going to happen by accident.

A lot of people have a fear of computers becoming alive. They don't want to be replaced, so they refuse to accept the approaching reality. On the contrary, I welcome it. Another race of intelligent beings would mean we wouldn't be alone in the universe anymore.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 06:43:13 2017 No.9769726 >>9769606 >Lrn2 Chinese Room problem The one that only applies to static code running on a computer and not actual AI? That Chinese Room problem?

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 06:47:25 2017 No.9769734

>>9769709
>The Chinese Room hypothesis was debunked.
By what? Rationalwiki.com?

>You are assuming the only way a computer can be sentient is by pretending
You are assuming that "sentience" isn't "pretending" as long as you're fooled

>A consumer may not be able to tell whether a computer is thinking or just pretending to, but the researchers who developed it would know. It's not exactly guesswork. They'd know exactly what they are doing.
A "consumer" can't tell the difference between an HVAC system controlled by a dude with a knob in the basement, and an HVAC system controlled by a thermocouple. Are you suggesting that thermocouples are intelligent because some people don't understand how they work, and some other people do?

Again, you can't just go "google is kewl!" and suddenly your air conditioner is a sentient machine.

>A lot of people have a fear of computers becoming alive
This has literally nothing to do with the argument and simply amounts to an ad hominem attack. I would ordinarily state my position on AI but doing so would dignify this sort of "argument".

I'm off to work now. In the tech industry. Have fun ascribing supernatural properties to computers while I'm away.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 06:54:00 2017 No.9769754 >>9769734 Can you outline the Chinese Room problem in your own words?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 11:23:20 2017 No.9770379 >>9764430 Friend tells me horse is a little bit sweet. I'd like to try it.

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