Kitchen knife kthread - general

[Anonymous No.8490907]

[Anonymous No.8490928]

I've been using the same G2 for 15 years, and none of the Guatemalans have ever laughed at me for it.

[Anonymous No.8490967]

>>8490907
I'm getting my own place and its time to retire using dollar store dogshit.

I was looking at a Sabatier 8" for an investment as my main knife, is this a geed decision for the money?

[Anonymous No.8490985]

I can't remember if posted this or not. I think I did, but then I went to work, and when I got a break and checked for it it was gone. I stripped my knife and forced a new patina, but part of it is turning reddish no matter what I do. Any idea why?

[Anonymous No.8491097]

>>8490985
>lets his knife rust
>wonders why it is now reddish in color

Do your knife a favor, get yourself some rust erasers and strip that fucking rust off of it. Then take better care of it and do a better job of oiling it before you store it in a humid area for an extended period of time. That thing looks nasty.

[Anonymous No.8491102]

Looking to pick up a decent Japanese gyuto. My cutting board is 12"x18". Do I have enough work space for a 240mm or should I go with a 210mm? All my other knives are crappy, short or serrated things, so I will also have to learn how to use a big knife. Pic related is what I'm thinking of buying.

[Anonymous No.8491108]

I have this special snowflake santoku from a VERY small company in vancouver canada, literally run out of a regular store sized room with a CNC mill, I got it as a present and though it's not a forged knife like the japanese ones, it's extremely sharp, good looking, well balanced and holds it's edge (so far, haven't needed to think about sharpening since it was bought a month ago)

[Anonymous No.8491127]

>>8491097
That picture is from after I stripped, forced a patina and oiled it, dude. That rust appeared while I was forcing the patina. I mean, it says in my post that that's what happened. I didn't "let" anything happen.

[Anonymous No.8491135]

>>8491127
>I forced a patina

Then you have only yourself to blame.

[Anonymous No.8491139]

>>8491135
Alright, you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.8491142]

>>8491139
>buys Japanese knives
>treats them like western knives
>wonders why they don't respond like he expects them to

Go into any professional Japanese kitchen and look at the chef's knives there. Only the worst, dirtiest and laziest chef's will allow a patina to form. You literally don't understand how to care for your tools.

[Anonymous No.8491143]

>>8491139
I bet you constantly have to grind out chips too, don't you?

[Anonymous No.8491192]

>>8490985
You do realize that patina, like gun bluing, is just another variety of rust, right? It's only preferable in that it reacts a very thin layer of the metal without pitting too deeply, as normal rust does. But it can certainly give way to rust if you're not careful. Looks like you weren't too careful with yours.

[Anonymous No.8491403]

>>8491142
>I don't even know what carbon steel is, let alone how to maintain it!
Oh, good to know!

[Anonymous No.8491435]

>>8491403
>using carbon fibers for a knife
HOLY SHIT you are a fucking retard lmao

[Anonymous No.8491660]

>>8490907
>using knives

[Anonymous No.8491669]

>>8491102
I'd buy the 240mm and never look back. A larger blade offers much more room for your knuckles, too. if you find your cutting board to be too small buy a good larger one. For a hobbycook it's a once in a lifetime investment.

[Anonymous No.8491752]

>>8490907
>general

[Anonymous No.8491931]

Funny to see the debate in this thread about patina.

White people tend to fetishize carbon knives and form patinas then circlejerk about how "nice" their patina is. But Japanese chefs keep their fully carbon knives utmost clean like >>8491142 said. It's funny how it's a reflection of culture.

It's kind of annoying to see the clueless weebs who sell knives and fetishize them without much knowledge.

>>8491102
Other anon already answered good enough. 240 is the generally accepted universal gyuto. In addition to knuckle clearance, once you actually choke up with a pinch grip it won't feel so large. (also don't purchase from CKTG)

[Anonymous No.8491968]

>>8491931
>don't purchase from CKTG
Because?

[Anonymous No.8492016]

>>8490967
Not an investment. And I didn't find that knife to be particularly good.

[Anonymous No.8492068]

>>8491102
> $350 Masamoto Gyuto
> White steel #2
I think you probably want to spend on a properly sized cutting board first, then 2+ good wetstones / diamond plates, and only then that knife.

[Anonymous No.8492100]

>>8491931
You can't prevent patina from forming on a carbon steel knife. Stop pretending you know dick from shit. Unless you kept your knife in a vacuum and never cut anything with it, it's gonna get a patina.

[Anonymous No.8492133]

>>8491968
The owner apparently was acting like an expert when he opened his shop, stole advice/knowledge from more experienced people and profited off of it, undercut people, had bad relations with knife sellers/makers, etc. etc. I'm sure there's a bunch of beefs I don't know about because I wasn't interested in knives when it happened. Basically it's a bunch of drama between the two dudes and the hobbyist community. I wouldn't trust the owner for advice, but if you've done your homework on what you want and the price is cheap, who am I to tell you where to shop?

>>8492100
Why are you so butt mad? For the record, I really like carbon blades/patina. You can't prevent a patina, but you can remove it and clean the knife, that's what Japanese chefs do. All I'm saying is it's interesting to see the difference in practice/culture.

[Anonymous No.8492156]

>>8491403
>thinking that allowing rust to form is the best way to "maintain" your carbon steel blade

[Anonymous No.8492207]

>>8491435
>doesn't know what carbon steel is
>calls other people retarded

[Anonymous No.8492211]

>>8492156
It is. Look up other similar processes like gun blueing and aluminium anodising. The right kind of rust prevents the wrong kind of rust.

[Anonymous No.8492213]

>>8491660
you don't know what living is until you've slap chopped the shit out a joocy ass ribeye

[Anonymous No.8492450]

>>8492207
>using carbon gas to pressurize a knife
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
the /ck/unts dont even know what metal is

[Anonymous No.8492463]

>>8491435
>carbon fiber
>knives
Retard.

[Anonymous No.8492728]

>>8492133
>Why are you so butt mad
I'm just an angry guy. I'm kind of always at this level. I understand what you're saying now, by the way.

[Anonymous No.8492848]

>>8492213
>9
lol

[Anonymous No.8492860]

>>8491931
>>8492133
What's a neckbear approved knife shop that isn't in Japan or on Warren Street?

[Anonymous No.8493296]

>>8492211
I know what patina is and why people acid-wash their knives to get a layer of it formed. I wouldn't say that it's "the best" way to maintain a carbon steel knife, though. The best way to keep an eye on the corrosion formation is to remove the corrosion at the soonest opportunity and keep a layer of oil on the knife when it's not in use.

[Anonymous No.8493607]

>>8492860
Where you at? Unless that doesn't matter. And what's wrong with Japan? Apart from long shipping times, some of the best deals to be had are buying direct.

[Anonymous No.8493736]

I have heard some professional chefs say that they prefer a 10" chef's knife or 240mm gyuto, but that their most used "line knife" or "workhorse knife" is actually an 8 inch petty or slicer - meaning that they would use the shorter profile knife for a wider range of tasks.

What would be the reasoning behind this and how much functionality is sacrificed with the shorter/narrower blade over a full size gyuto?

[Anonymous No.8493756]

>>8493736
Knives that big are just plain unwieldy in a tight, busy kitchen. Ideally, in a large clutter free, easy flowing work space, a bigger knife is always better

[Anonymous No.8493762]

Can someone post the 'how to sharpen knife' series of images?

[Anonymous No.8493765]

>>8493736
I'm not entirely sure, since I use a chef's knife most (keep several of them in my kit as a result), but I know plenty of cooks who use the smaller/thinner knife on the line because a lot of line stations have small prep spaces and a narrower blade (slicer as opposed to chef) works fine for most tasks. I use a wider blade most because of the clearance, I tend to use it as a scoop and paddle to move stuff around, and overall comfort for my hands. I get more hand-claw syndrome when I use narrower blades more. I choke up on my grip a lot, which could also be a part of it.

[Anonymous No.8493802]

>>8493736
My workhorse is a 270mm gyuto.

[Anonymous No.8493964]

>>8493762
Why images when youtuube is so much better?

[Anonymous No.8494144]

>>8493607
I'm not in Japan and don't speak Japanese. I have no interest in booking an overseas trip for a knife. I've been there twice and it's nice but this is a knife not a woman

I'm not looking for a custom mirror finish honyaki kiritsuke, just a normal working knife

[Quiche !!T2UdrWkLSWB No.8494241]

>>8490967
Old sabs are pretty nice, nothing made for a while has been. The classic answers to your classic question are vitx fibrox or wursties. My suggestion is the latter, as well as a decent steel and whetstone. Will provide far better results when you work out what you're doing. Best of luck.
>>8491108 pro tip, giving it a once over on the steel after use will ensure it stays that way. Sharp knives are a lot easier to keep sharp than blunt ones are to put a good edge on.
>>8492860
What country are you in?

[Anonymous No.8494320]

only thing I use when I chop up the good stuff

[Anonymous No.8494699]

>>8494241
The US, of course

[Anonymous No.8495523]

>>8494144
You are aware that you can buy stuff over the internet from Japan without having to book a plane ticket, right?

[Anonymous No.8495671]

>>8490967
I personally hate french bolsters, unless I need to open a coconut, a can or a hard shell of some kind. I use the heel of my knife often, and french bolsters get in the way. Consider a gyuto or german chef's knife. Just think about it.

[Anonymous No.8495677]

>>8495523
Yeah but all the Jap websites I've seen either have broken Engrish and some fucked up Yahoo store platform, or are obscenely expensive, or a shitty selection, or only do orders via email.

[Anonymous No.8495719]

>>8495677
Seriously?
http://japanesechefsknife.com/

[Anonymous No.8495729]

>>8490907
All of those are wrong.

If you aren't using german steel you fucked up.

[Anonymous No.8495731]

>>8495719
Exactly the one I had in mind when I posted that

Is there nothing that has options to filter by knife type, steel type, etc? Instead of just a clusterfuck of knives by brand?

[Anonymous No.8495734]

>>8490907
WHAT THE FUCK? How can something that sharp be legal???

[Anonymous No.8495739]

>>8495731
>Is there nothing that has options to filter by knife type, steel type, etc?

[Anonymous No.8495743]

>>8495739
Oh, what a shitty design. They hide that option the second you get off the main page, I've never even noticed it.

[Anonymous No.8495754]

>>8495743
It is what it is. All I'm trying to show is that there are Japanese websites that have what you are probably looking for and are perfectly legit. There are American and European sellers too. I don't know why you are excluding sellers based on their website design or the fact that they use a Yahoo shopping platform. If the store has a good reputation in the knife community, then they are legit to buy from. Any other questions?

[Anonymous No.8495758]

>>8495743
And also, holy shit this is not a search option, who the fuck designed this? If I'm looking to compare 240mm sujis, give me a list of 240mm sujis FFS, not a list of "powder steel blade" with an explanation of the benefits

This is why CKTG is so great, even though people hate the owner. The site makes it fairly easy to compare products.

[Anonymous No.8495763]

>>8495758
If you don't understand why someone would be shopping for a powdered steel blade or a carbon steel blade, then you have no business buying a chef's knife that costs over about $50. There are several available on ebay in the $50-60 range. That might be more of what you're looking for.

[Anonymous No.8495780]

>>8495763
Oh, so if I don't want to be bukkake'd with a bunch of extraneous text before being allowed to view the list it means I don't deserve to shop there? Fuck off JCK shill, this is why people buy from CKTG. I just want a list of the sujis and the specs and price for each, not a wall of broken English that explains (poorly) the different steel types.

[Anonymous No.8495786]

>>8495780
It's not their job to babysit clueless buyers who don't know what they're doing. All the information is there if you knew what you wanted.

[Anonymous No.8495789]

>>8495786
>my bad interface design is the user's fault
It's called database normalization, and obviously they didn't do it.

This is why you're losing business. If this is flying over your head hire someone to do it. Even an Indian contractor could do a better job than that.

[Anonymous No.8495800]

>>8495789
You're definitely on the spectrum.

[Anonymous No.8495830]

>>8495800
Look at all these options! Two or three clicks to get to what you want on one page, instead of fifty clicks and trying to remember it all in your head as you go!

Kindly do the needful and revert with upgradated design at the earliest.

t. Pradeep

[Anonymous No.8495838]

I want a -rest of your life- type of kitchen knife set, I'm not a girl so I shop with my hands not my eyes but I'd still like a few reccomendations on good knives

[Anonymous No.8495873]

Does anyone here have any experience with ceramic knifes?

I'm really curious about them, the price doesn't seem too bad but I don't want to waste my hard earned cash if they are shit.

[Anonymous No.8495882]

>>8495830
>>8495789
>>8495780
>>8495758
>has more money than he knows what to do with
>has never heard of reading reviews or going to forums to talk with people who have more experience than him

Do you let the salesmen at brick-and-mortar stores upsell you too?

[Anonymous No.8495889]

>>8495873
The initial edge lasts a very long time, but they do go dull eventually and when they do, they're impossible to resharpen. Basically a disposable knife.

[Anonymous No.8495901]

>>8495882
How I shop for a knife:

>What kind of knife do I want? - Suji
>What length? - 240mm
>Handle? - western
>What kind of steel? - preferably White or Blue, definitely not kurouchi, stainless clad ok but not necessary
>Budget? - $150-250 with some flexibility
>Next step - get the list of knives

How you shop for a knife:

>http://www.google.com
>wat knife iz gud?
>Shillforum says: Brand X
>Anon: Ooh oh oh I got brand x! I totally win!

Yeah I'm totally the gullible one here

[Anonymous No.8495922]

>>8495889
Interesting, I bet I could sharpen it with an angle grinder and a wet stone polishing pad but I doubt it's worth the effort.

[Anonymous No.8495931]

>>8495922
IIRC, you need special extra hard diamond stones and even then, it's very easy to chip the edge. Why don't you want to get a steel knife?

[Anonymous No.8495937]

>>8495931
I am chef at a deep sea lumberjack underwater logging camp and we are currently working in an area with a lot of naval mines

[Anonymous No.8495941]

>>8495901
>come to knife thread expecting to be spoonfed
>someone is stupid enough to spoonfeed you
>WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU JUST FUCKING SAY ABOUT ME YOU LITTLE BITCH
>HOW DARE YOU PRESUME TO KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT KNIVES TO TRY TO HELP ME
>ONLY I AM THE KNIFE MASTER

You sound like a real pleasant person to hang out with irl.

[Anonymous No.8495944]

>>8495937
Fun. Why don't you want to get a steel knife, though?

[Anonymous No.8495945]

>>8495941
I was complaining about the UX of a website, and you spergoids tried to turn it into an argument about knife knowledge

Please tell Mr. Kagayaki his astroturfers suck just as much as his web designers

[Anonymous No.8495950]

>>8495944
The mines detonate if I have a steel knife to chop the sea lettuce

[Anonymous No.8495951]

>>8495931

>Why don't you want to get a steel knife?

I have steel knives, and they are perfectly fine.
I'm not even looking to buy a new knife right now, I'm just curious about the ceramic ones so I decided to ask about them here.

[Anonymous No.8495960]

>>8495945
Why do I have to be your fucking therapist and explain life to you? No, that's not what you were doing and you know it. Now take your autistic screeching out of the thread. Nobody likes you here.

[Anonymous No.8495961]

>>8495960
No U

And remember: database normalization. Have him pass that on to Pradeep, he'll know what to do.

[Anonymous No.8495974]

is there an advantage to a western double grind v a eastern chisel grind?

i feel like the single would be way less upkeep, you just go for it on a whetstone

[Anonymous No.8495982]

>>8495974
It's not quite what you're probably thinking, the geometry is kind of complicated and fussy compared to the symmetrical geometry of a western profile blade.

If you want simple upkeep and find the freehanding annoying, just get a decent guided system like an edgepro.

[Anonymous No.8495985]

>>8495974
Single bevel knives don't work well if you're wrong-handed, which is about 12% of the population. They were originally used mainly for cutting fish, although they work fine for a variety of foods. I have an inexpensive ajikiri (small deba) that I use to debone chicken.

>i feel like the single would be way less upkeep, you just go for it on a whetstone
It's actually a complex bevel, requiring several additional steps when sharpening, so if it's just about upkeep, I'd prefer a symmetrical double grind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA0vdeDDSJI

[Anonymous No.8495986]

>>8495974
You can cut straight slices of hard foods like potatoes or yams with a double grind.

[Anonymous No.8495995]

Why do these threads always seem to attract the most autistic people on this website? It's not like we can talk about kitchen knives or sharpening with water stones on /k/ and expect any kind of productive conversation. Can't you idiots just behave yourselves?

[Anonymous No.8496011]

>>8495995
The threads work fine as long as the senpai/kohai dynamics aren't upset. The spergoids feed off the sensation of lording it over someone who isn't knowledgeable.

The trouble happens if someone posts a question that doesn't call for an extremely simple (and preferably condescending) answer. If you show the slightest amount of prior knowledge of the subject, or (god forbid) have a question that the spergoids can't actually answer, they grow fangs and decide it's time to have a pissing contest over who memorized the most knife brands.

The best was the thread where some neckbeard got mad that someone wasn't respecting his shitty condescending advice and he ended up crapflooding with like 100 pictures of himself stabbing phone books with his pocket knife. I wish I had screencapped it.

[Anonymous No.8496028]

>>8495995
These threads are populated by weeabos that think they know everything about knives and places value on themselves based on how Weeabo their knives are.

Their jimmies are rustled if someone talks about something out of their comfort zone or criticizes their favorite chinese cartoon/knife.

[Anonymous No.8496038]

>>8496011
>>8496028
Any more comments from the peanut gallery?

> their favorite chinese cartoon/knife.
What does that even mean? Was there an anime about knives that I'm not aware of?

[Anonymous No.8496049]

>>8496038
It means someone knew more about his own knife and he's playing tsundere to deflect
>i-it's not like I knew what a hamaguri-ba was s-senpai
>j-ja-pan? that's in china right?

[Anonymous No.8496412]

>>8493762
>>8493964
if you can ignore the shilling in this video, the method and technique are pretty well proven

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFhMGJYhYpU

here's a video from ATC where they review a Bob Kramer series knife (among others). Note the images of his edge compared to others:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e50gujs4l-I

[Anonymous No.8496434]

Thoughts on Takamura HSPS?

[Anonymous No.8496468]

>>8495838
>I want a -rest of your life- type of kitchen knife set, I'm not a girl so...

what does your chosen gender have to do with anything at all related to knife shopping? If you want recommendations, I'm sure you'll get plenty here, but you don't have to be an attention whoring snowflake faggot about it. kys.

[Anonymous No.8496967]

>>8495995

Because the overwhelming majority of kitchen knife knowledge is experience based and therefore cannot be empirically proven, so it's extremely easy to troll these threads and get the people who actually know things angry because they have no way of defending themselves against the shitposting and trolling since there is no outside empirical evidence anyone can point to so prove they are right.

And since /ck/ has an enormous proportion of outright shitposters, having any sort of productive conversation about knives becomes impossible.

[Anonymous No.8496986]

>>8495995

Not only that, but even more so than in the pocket knife and utility knife community online, kitchen knife discussion tend to suffer from an extreme lack of technical knowledge about metallurgy, heat treatments, steel choices, sharpening techniques and equipment beyond the simplest use of waterstones, and blade geometries.

And in the absence of technical knowledge and empirical data, you end up in a circlejerk morass of opinions with nothing concrete to back them up.

It's like a discussion about the causes of disease before the widespread use of the microscope where the people arguing for the germ theory of disease are being shouted down and trolled by "bad air" and "divine retribution" supporters.

[Anonymous No.8496992]

>>8495995

Basically, if you actually want to learn something about kitchen knives and sharpening you need to go to a specialized forum about the topic online and take your chances there.

[Anonymous No.8496996]

>>8496986
>making sense
>reasonable insight

why are you even on 4chan?

[Anonymous No.8497005]

>>8492133
>apparently...

Stop spreading rumors. You pretty much admit you don't actually know firshand, so why all the hearsay?

[Anonymous No.8497038]

>>8496996

Not every board has the astronomical shitposting rate that /ck/ does. I just learned not to waste my time trying to share any knowledge in knife threads on this board.

Now even the coffee threads have been totally overrun by shitposting so it's probably time to abandon this board entirely, really.

[Anonymous No.8497527]

>>8495786
>its not their job to make the shopping experience better for their customer

...sure

[Anonymous No.8497601]

>>8497527
Still at it?

[Anonymous No.8497606]

I just ordered a Tojiro DP Gyuto for shits and gigs, I just hope it takes a decent beating. Im not going to be nice to it. Thats a promise.

[Anonymous No.8497713]

>>8497606
That's what I use mine for, but after picking up a Fujiwara FKM sujihiki, I kind of wish I'd went with Fujiwara for everything. The fit and finish is much, much better, for practically the same price. On both my Tojiro DP gyuto and petty, I had to do a little bit of deburring work on the spine of the blade, and there were tiny gaps in the handle inserts out of the box. It will be a good "beater" knife for me to experiment with the limits I can take VG10 without getting any chipping.

[Anonymous No.8497771]

>>8497713
well, maybe ill put it on the list of fun toys to try out. I just needed a go between from the kitchen rental knives, my fancy knives, and my home OXO good grips (which are actually pretty fucking nice, ive used em daily for 6+ years?) I'll take it to work and beat the kinks out of it and see how it handles. It might be too light for heavy prep work, but if Im more concerned with edge retention and easy re-honing with it than sharpness and balance like I would my Shun/Globals.

[Anonymous No.8497806]

>>8497713
Hey anon
Been using a MACPro for years (420mm SS). Love it. Got a Tojiro Honesuki. Love it for it's job, but a bit too specific profile.
How do you do the de-burring on the spine?
Pinch grip on the MAC gets pretty uncomfortable after ~4 hours; seems unnecessarily 90 degrees sharp. Want to round the corners on the spine where I grip it.
Halp?

[Anonymous No.8497810]

>>8497713
>>8497806
Got an EdgePro system with 340 - 6000 Shapton glass FWIW.

[Anonymous No.8497814]

>>8490985
maybe you're colour-blind.

[Anonymous No.8497825]

>ctrl+F Korin
0 results.

you guys don't know dick.

[Anonymous No.8497839]

>>8497825
Korin is only useful if you live in NYC and can go try them out in person. I have been since I live in the city and they don't really stand out that much over other knives in that price range. This is my main knife, although I have a mix of knife styles that is kind of turning into a small collection.

[Anonymous No.8497849]

Regarding oils:

Do I need a special kind to keep my knives and ironware maintained, or can I use vegetable oil for my needs? I ask because there was a controversy recently when a gun oil manufacturer was proven to be selling a product chemically proven to be identical to canola oil, so I thought if it was working then why not?

[Anonymous No.8497859]

>>8497806
>How do you do the de-burring on the spine?

You can use literally any stone that you'd use to sharpen or polish the edge. I have a little hand held polishing stone that I originally got for gunsmithing that helps me get into corners a little better, but you might have something perfectly suitable. Depending on how round you want the spine to be, you might just start with a very fine grit, get rid of the sharpness at the corners, and be satisfied with the results.

>>8497849
Mineral oil or tsubaki oil are frequently recommended because they are food safe (most gun oils are not) and will not go rancid (as cooking oils will).

[Anonymous No.8497864]

>>8497859
Ah I see, thank you.

[Anonymous No.8497878]

>>8497806
This is the exact thing I use to get into tight corners around the bolster and choil:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/537218/norton-hard-arkansas-sharpening-stone-square-3-x-1-4-x-1-4-ultra-fine

All I do to my knives is de-bur the sharp edges until they are less sharp, so if you wanted a more rounded spine, you might want to start with something more medium grain. Again, many different types of stones would work here. If you have a Spyderco Sharpmaker laying around, those triangular stones would probably work very well too.

[Anonymous No.8497940]

>>8497849
Generally you only need to oil for storing knives over a long period of time. If you use a knife every day, just clean it after you're done and make sure its very dry when putting it back on the rack.
Food grade mineral oil is probably the best for carbon steels, plus you can use it on cutting boards as well.

>Some cranky home made kitchen knives
Top
200mm 60HRC 'Breaker'/generic big fucking knife in low-satin finish, brass, ebony, purpleheart and malachite inlay
Middle
200mm 61HRC Vegetable slicer in in high satin finish, 304SS engine turned bolsters, ebony and purpleheart with brass inlay. Also has filework down the spine
Bottom
200mm 60HRC Cimeter in mirror finish, brass, eucalypt burl, ebony and turquoise inlay

All done in Sheffield O1 tool steel, double tempered and hand made. The most complicated tool used was a drill press (no belt sanders etc)

[General General No.8497941]

[Anonymous No.8497960]

>>8497859
>>8497878
Thanks gais.
I've had the knife long enough that I shouldn't be so scaredy cat about maybe making a mistake. The worst that could happen is that I marr the blade ... which I've done already while sharpening, lol.

[Anonymous No.8497967]

>>8497960
I want to add that I like this blade so much that I gifted one to a friend. It was over $200 when I bought mine for myself. Less than $150 now on Amazon. SS coating means no rust. Bretty gud work horse.

[Anonymous No.8497984]

>moving out again soon
>don't have knife set anymore
>poor as fucking dirt and can't afford even the 8in Victorinox for a few months
What do? What's a decent cheap stand in until I get back on my feet and can afford a better one?

[Anonymous No.8497988]

>>8497984
How can you afford to support yourself living on your own if you don't even have enough money to drop $40 on a Victoninox?

[Anonymous No.8498003]

>>8497984
If you can't afford a $30 knife, then it really doesn't matter. Buy one that is affordable?

[Anonymous No.8498004]

>>8497988
Why is it so hard to just answer a question or not without having to badger someone about their fucking living situation? Never fails.

If you don't have an answer for me, then piss off.

[Anonymous No.8498008]

>>8498003
Fair enough. I was just hoping someone might have a cheaper suggestion that would last me a decent while. Those knives are $45+ where I live.

[Anonymous No.8498009]

>>8498004
Why is it so hard to just ask a simple question with enough and ONLY enough information required to get a relevant answer?

If you're going to bring up all these details about your shitty life, then expect a few comments about what you yourself wrote, or else just kill yourself. Either way is cool with me.

[Anonymous No.8498022]

>>8495786
I agree 100% it isn't their job to babysit clueless buyers.
Their job is to ram what ever has the highest profit margin down your throat and it's your job to have done the research before hand to tell them to get fucked.
They need to get some flash adds with blinking lights so you know what you should be buying.
It's gonna be great don't worry just buy what ever knife they say you should get, who needs research?

[Anonymous No.8498028]

>>8492207
>>8491435
Assuming we didn't get all dodgy on what "carbon fiber" is I'm kinda interested in a carbon fiber knife. I wonder how sharp you can get the edge.

[Anonymous No.8498047]

>>8498008
Nopper doodle. It's affordable and worth the $45.
I've found shitty blades at the GoodWill store. Check it out if cash is that tight.

[Quiche !!T2UdrWkLSWB No.8498197]

>>8495995
The threads typically comprise clueless first time buyers and autistic weebs spending silly amounts of money on knives which will likely be used to slice hotpockets. It would help to have some posters with some experience making or using knives professionally.

[Quiche !!T2UdrWkLSWB No.8498205]

>>8498008
Nick one, you impoverished basterd

[Anonymous No.8498216]

>>8498197

And what is someone who uses kitchen knives professionally going to tell anyone besides asserting their personal preferences in blade geometry and handle as if it was the one true way?

Since no one even tries to objectively test the hardness, apex stability, and edge retention of these knives all you are left with is essentially a debate about fit and finish and geometries and handles.

[Anonymous No.8498307]

>>8498216
Saying "anyone know of a place with a good deal on Model 2349234 Santukochukobochokiri" seems like a pretty reasonable question to me, but maybe I'm just being crazy. I mean we all just memorize forum arguments and regurgitate them right? Who the fuck actually has money to *buy* knives?

[Anonymous No.8498308]

if you don't own this set then kys

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XKF51HY?ie=UTF8&tag=marketorder-20&camp=1789&linkCode=xm2&creativeASIN=B00XKF51HY

>spending more then $25 on knives
ishgyt

[Anonymous No.8498843]

>>8498308
>supporting the Chinese
Literally kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.8498887]

>>8495873
I picked up a £4 one from Tesco just to give it a go. 6 months on it still has a very good edge on it however someone dropped it so it has a little nick out the tip. They are very light which i find a bit weird to use but my go to is still a metal Sabatier. I would buy an expensive ceramic. Far too fragile

[Anonymous No.8499232]

>>8497606
I've had mine for over 10 years. Tried to beat the shit out of it so it gets fucked up in order to justify an upgrade. It hasn't cooperated. Don't listen to kraut lovers who think that Japanese knives will shatter if you look at them funny. They try to use their knives as screwdrivers and crowbars and then wonder why they don't work so great.

[Anonymous No.8499259]

>>8491102
if u have 2 b spoon fed ur gyuto advice u have no business in this thread of experts

go buy a slap chop u amateur, I have to go grill some burgers now I am the head chef of macdonalds

[Anonymous No.8500565]

>

[Anonymous No.8501010]

>>8490907
My girlfriend is a knife snob and I am kinda clueless. What's a good sub-300 knife to purchase to impress?

Please help.

Is...is there a chart or something?

[Anonymous No.8501056]

>>8501010
Something from Japland, mate. I've read this whole thread and nazi knifes are pleb tier, everything else is spastic tier so go anime or go hime

[Anonymous No.8501082]

>>8501010
You can get a lot of knife for $300. It also depends on how much of a "snob" your girlfriend is. Does she just like expensive knives, or does she know what she's talking about in regard to steel, heat treatment, grind, blade geometry or anything like that?

If the former, then something like
>https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Z1YQGS/
or even
>https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TQZV8TC/
can be had from Williams Sonoma or Sur La Table. The Shuns are known for chipping if she doesn't, in fact, know what she's doing. Miyabi is another Japanese style knife sold at Williams Sonoma. They will chip too, if abused. In this case, normal handling, if by someone who isn't familiar with Japanese steel, constitutes abuse. The Wusthof will not chip unless she does something absolutely stupid with it, like trying to pry open a coconut or behead a camel.

Go check her knife drawer or block to find out what she has already and then come back to us once you have an idea of what she owns and what her favorite knives are.

If she is, in actual fact, a knife geek (which is extremely unlikely, due to her lack of a Y sex chromosome, let's face it), then you really shouldn't be spending your gift money to her on knives. She likely has very specific preferences and either she already has the best knives we could recommend her, or else the knives we recommend won't be her preferred style. Either way, you lose by not consulting her beforehand. Knife geeks can be very particular. But again, there's a near-100% chance that she isn't a knife geek, so it's not a huge concern.

[Anonymous No.8501097]

>>8497849
I'll probably get shit on for this, but I polish my carbon steel with bacon fat every night. Sorry, jews and vegans.

[Anonymous No.8501118]

>>8501097
Do you at least wash it off before you start cutting vegetables or anything that will be served raw? Bacon grease can and will go rancid, if left for long enough. That doesn't mean it can't protect metal. But you should keep in mind that old bacon fat isn't exactly food safe.

[Anonymous No.8501122]

>>8498843
what's wrong with buying Chinese products? are you an American xenophobe or something?

[Anonymous No.8501154]

>>8501122
I don't know what "American xenophobe" means, but Chinese products are almost always either one or more of the following:
>poor quality
>poorer quality than an equivalent product produced in the first world
>produced with illegal (in many cases stolen) intellectual property - i.e., counterfeits
>sold at artificially and deceptively deflated prices due to Chinese currency manipulation

I don't care so much about low quality knives, but when the Chinese steal American patents, counterfeit our products and then sell them back to us at deceptively low prices thanks to currency manipulation, AND YOU GIVE THEM MONEY TO SUPPORT THEM, then you are directly stabbing your fellow citizen in the back. Not just blue-collar factory workers who don't have a job, but the college-educated designers and engineers who worked hard to design and patent their ideas, only to have them hacked and stolen by the Chinese.

It's not really possible to get by if you completely avoid buying anything Chinese-made, but it is possible to avoid buying the shit that will break within the first month of ownership and which was likely only made and marketed at such a low price as a result of unethical stealing of our intellectual property and due to currency manipulation.

[Anonymous No.8501158]

>>8501082
this

[Anonymous No.8501235]

>>8501082
She is into knives in the latter sense. She let me borrow an MX3 by Mercer. Not really sure if that's the latter or former, actually...

[Anonymous No.8501277]

>>8501235
Sounds like you need to consult with her about what her preferences are, what she already has and what she needs.

[Anonymous No.8501293]

>>8501277
So I take it she actually knows her shit then? What would be the next logical step up from that brand/model? Looking to get something similar but better for her to replace what I've been using for ages.

[Anonymous No.8501305]

>>8501293
I don't know if she knows her shit, but she has a decent knife and probably doesn't need an upgrade anytime soon.

[Anonymous No.8501325]

>>8501305
Well, given that I don't know much what would you say is the next step beyond that knife?

[Anonymous No.8501345]

>>8501325
Like I said, the next step is to ask her preferences. Find out more about all the knives in her collection. Find out what she likes and what she is missing. Learn about kitchen knives yourself, maybe buy one for yourself just to play with. It really doesn't take that much work to get into a new hobby.

But who am I kidding, you want "easy mode boyfriend," don't you?

Just pick something that looks pretty to you and is within your price range from any of the following stores, and I'm sure she will smile, say that she likes it and have sex with you. That's all you really want, right?
http://japanesechefsknife.com/
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/
http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/
http://www.knivesandstones.com/
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/

[Anonymous No.8501355]

>>8501345
Totally, thanks!

[Anonymous No.8501361]

>>8501355
Enjoy your shallow relationship, eventual divorce, loss of wealth, children that grow up to be emotionally crippled, and your eventual suicide.

[Anonymous No.8501389]

>>8490907

Nice knives anon. Here is my humble set so far.

[Anonymous No.8501402]

>>8501389
Unfortunately that pic was from Google Images. I am still working on my collection. Who made the knives in your photo - aside from the Shun Classic? Is the middle one a 180mm gyuto? Why did you go with that over a longer petty?

[Anonymous No.8501407]

>>8490907
daily reminder that all you need is a chef's knife. anything else is hurr durr look at me im so culinary

wokest knife is a chinatown butcher's knife though

[Anonymous No.8501415]

>>8501407
Would you cut the stem out of a tomato, or process a whole chicken, with a 10" chef's knife? I'll never understand this "all you need is a chef's knife" meme. Maybe if all you do is chop vegetables.

[Anonymous No.8501417]

>>8501118
Nope. Nothing I cut will be sitting long enough for the fat to turn, and it's only going to have minuscule bits of fat on anything I cut. And I wipe my knife so often, that that fat is probably gone after an hour.

[Anonymous No.8501427]

>>8501417
Then I wouldn't be proud of using bacon grease to oil your knife. Adults use the right tool for the job. You sound like a teenager trying to be edgy.
>I use BACON grease to oil my knives
>what are you gonna do about it, VEGANS!
We get it. You're retarded. Let's move on.

[Anonymous No.8501455]

>>8501402

>middle
Asai Enji

>bottom
Yoshikane

Middle one is 140mm. Big one is 185mm, I believe. Probably should have gotten a bigger one, but it was my first real knife, and I need a bigger cutting board. Both are next on the list.

[Anonymous No.8501471]

>>8501455
Wow, my sense of perspective was way off, then. How small is your cutting board that you can't work with an 8 inch knife?

[Anonymous No.8501480]

>>8501471

Not that small, but I've found it's too small for a lot tasks. Probably the size of a fullsize laptop. I know I need a bigger one, and with it probably a full size knife.

[Anonymous No.8501484]

>>8501480
You can get a fairly large hardwood cutting board off Amazon or ebay for like $60.

[Anonymous No.8501505]

[Anonymous No.8501537]

>>8501415
Not that poster, but yeah, pretty regularly. If I'm doing a repetitive task where a smaller knife is less cumbersome, I'll use a smaller knife. If I just need to trim the stems out of a few tomatoes I won't bother pulling out a different knife.
Processing a chicken is a little different since it''s involving bone that I will typically scrape down to clean up, and I'm usually doing numerous at once. It depends on how I'm processing though. If I'm going for speed and I have a bunch, I'll typically use a 240mm chef's knife all the way through. If I have presentation bone or fancy cuts, I'll clean them up with a boning knife or a petty that is ground down from age.

[Anonymous No.8501633]

>>8501427
I never really thought about it. The jews and vegans thing was a joke.

[Anonymous No.8501635]

>>8501633
>I never really thought about it.
Yes, that was obvious.

[Anonymous No.8501776]

I want to buy a Japanese gyutou, preferably 210 or 240mm, and a good price/steel ratio I've held the Miyabi although it was the birch wood and that is as of now still outside budget, but the MCT6000 series is cheaper than a lot of the vg10 knives here and I don't really like online shopping, I can get the Miyabi mct6000 for around 150-180 give or take a few depending on the store, should I? Or should I look more, the knife will be used for greens n shit and boneless meat

[Anonymous No.8501810]

>>8494320
You joke, but that's basically what they use to part out tuna

[Anonymous No.8501818]

>>8501776
Im looking for a bento box, it cant be pinku (thats japanese for pink) or any girl color. It has to be of 2 or more kotoba (thats japanese for 2 compartments) and has be be chibi (small) sized. And has to be really kawaii (cute). Also It has to be about 10-20 bux. And you have to post pics of it first (i want to make shure it's kawaii [cute]). And it would be nice if it came with matching chopstick holder (WITH chopsticks). OH! and it CANNOT have any cartoon pictures, or be made out of plastic. It has to be made of ceramic, or something like that. Also it would be nice if it was made in japan. and not in china or corea (korea) or whatever. I have found a bento box similar to the one im describing in e-bay, but it was 1 kotoba, and i dont want my gohan (rice) to touch my other things (it can get wet and i would not like that, plus 2 compartments looks more kawaii)

[Anonymous No.8501843]

>>8501818
I love you

[Quiche !!T2UdrWkLSWB No.8501863]

>>8498216
>hardness, apex stability, and edge retention
Perhaps those using knives day in, day out would have a clue about what provides a continually sharp cutting edge, and the kinds of maintainance necessary?
>>8501056
As someone who can turn things into smaller things very efficiently with wursties, care to define pleb tier?

[Anonymous No.8501882]

>>8501427
Vegan detected, please take your mental illness elsewhere

[Anonymous No.8502114]

>>8501810
I'm enjoying that fucking woodsaw.

[Anonymous No.8502163]

>>8501863

Compare what audiophiles claim to what empirical testing of their claims shows and you can figure out for yourself what the problem with that idea is.

[Anonymous No.8502170]

>>8498216
Yeah if only manufacturers and vendors actually had a number for this "hardness" thing, and stuck it in the catalog next to the knife. Some universally accepted measurement could be used, let's hypothetically say it would be labeled "HRC" or something. Wow. Wouldn't that be crazy?

[Anonymous No.8502182]

>>8502170

Oh, kitchen knife makers actually reveal that sort of information now? As far as I'm aware Japanese makers especially tend not to reveal anything beyond what steel the knife is made out of.

[Anonymous No.8502191]

>>8502182
Aside from a handful of makers, they're pretty open about the steel and the HRC, and the small number of makers who are cryptic about it (Nenohi, Masamoto, Suisin to some extent, Misono to some extent), you can usually find all of the information from secondary sources so whether or not it's officially published is irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.8502211]

>>8502191

That didn't seem to the case a couple of years ago, so I'm actually quite glad to hear that.

Really the thing that makes me most weary is that once you start taking relatively pure carbon steels above about 62 or 63 HRC you start really needing some pretty exotic heat treatment practices to get good results (accelerated quenches, multiple quenches, normalization, multiple tempers, etc) and it's hard to know who is and is not doing this stuff right.

[Anonymous No.8502229]

>>8502211
Most of the workhorse knives aren't 63 HRC, you mostly see that in ridiculously high end knives that get purchased for the "likes". 60-61 is about as high as it gets, for the most part. And of course it's hard to know without lab testing each and every product, same with anything you buy. That's why brand reputation is a thing, it's why companies like Mac and Nenohi can charge an arm and a leg compared to other brands even if it's the same kind of steel.

[Anonymous No.8502263]

>>8502229

CKTG alone has several knives under $200 with claimed HRCs in the 63-65 range.

And, honestly, based on metallurgy the target hardness for gyutos made of carbon steels that aren't going to be used on bone should ideally be in the 65-67 range, as long as the heat treatment is done right, which is the tricky part.

I'm probably eventually going to have to get something made by a North American custom maker who demonstrates they understand the metallurgy involved in getting a carbon steel knife near full martensite hardness.

[Anonymous No.8502270]

>>8502263
Yeah, that's why I said "most", not "all"

[Anonymous No.8502298]

Generally when I make a knife, HRC is a part of it, but so is the following factors-
>Purpose
>Balance
>Weight
>Geometry
>Materials
>User

The last one is interesting as it actually defines a lot about how it will end up at the end of the day and put into service. Professionals (cooks, process workers & butchers) will generally maintain their tools to a higher standard, but they also beat on them a lot harder, for longer- than a home user who tends to be neglectful in their use, storage and cleaning.
Generally for Bob the home user of cutlery, stainless is the material of choice- generally look around for something like a 440C SS tool steel which has a good mix of corrosion resistance, durability and edge holding. It 'can' get hard up to around 60-61HRC with the right treatments, but for the most part its around the 57-58HRC (which is perfectly fine) and while it gets 'sharp' it is also very tough, lasts a long time and unlikely to develop any fatal flaws. If you're on a budget, there's a lot of 420 grade SS out there for not a lot of money which also 'does the job', will stay sharp, but has difficulty holding razor edges for a long time and even the most incompetent cunt has a hard time destroying it.
I've made a couple of 440C blades for chefs here and there who loved it, so its a good choice for professionals. There are a variety of other SS out there which are also suitable and very close to it in terms of metallurgy- if in doubt, research or just ask.

Heavy users- butchers, process workers, cooks and the apprentices in kitchens who spend most of their working day swinging something sharp have different needs.
Balance is important, as is edge holding and toughness.
If a blade is too heavy, or heavier to one end then it will cause fatigue over time and ends up causing longer term strain injuries. Corrosion resistance isn't really a factor, it spends all day working, then gets cleaned, bit of a hone, well dried and stored somewhere sensible.

[Anonymous No.8502369]

>>8502298

Personally, I think AEB-L/13c26 at around 60-61 HRC would be a much better choice for that application. It will be tougher at that hardness than 440C at 58 HRC while the higher apex stability will give longer edge retention in use against a cutting board.

[Anonymous No.8502417]

>>8502369
You can creep 440C into that range with 2 cryo cycles, as 13C26 usually needs to have in order to attain HRC's of 60+.
Its not a bad steel, its got a little less carbon and chromium in it though which generally makes it a lesser choice for a high performance blade and fills the middle area of mass produced stuff better

Reason I say the 57-58 is perfectly fine is that it will perform nearly all the jobs asked of it, nearly zero risk of some kind of mechanical failure and it can take a real beating. Plus it also takes out the 'misadventure factor' like the time you drop it on a tile floor and drop kick the motherfucker into a steel cabinet- no chips bends or busted bits. Now, while you can creep it up quite high but that also adds on a big dollar price increase which mean you're having to use liquid nitrogen for a total of 48hrs, 3 tempering cycles and that does add up in man-hours spent.

Sometimes people need a blade, but they're not paying the prices for what it would take for me to make them one. Mass production does that a lot better with 50 tonne presses and making 100's a day, but you don't get the quality control that a custom knife maker provides where I'm making a knife. Its unlikely you're going to get a dud one from a reputable maker, but some of the lesser ones I wouldn't trust at all

[Anonymous No.8502615]

Just came here to say Tojiro makes the best kitchen knives for the price and basically you're retarded if you dont own one of their knives, thank you.

[Anonymous No.8502829]

>>8502615
>>8497713

[Anonymous No.8502875]

>>8490907
The ONLY blade you should ever need in the kitchen is the Chinese Cleaver.
The ONLY BLADE.

[Anonymous No.8502882]

>>8502875
OK, so who makes a good one.

[Anonymous No.8503070]

Why do people bother posting on 4chan if they can't be bothered check the threads they post in literally two and a half minutes later for any replies?

>>8502875
Fuck you, casualfag.

[Anonymous No.8503107]

>>8502875
>Shun

Tip top pleb, plebfriend :^)

[Anonymous No.8503305]

>>8503107
>MUH CPMS30V154O1TOOLSTEEL
Have fun spending 30 hours a week trying to get your supersteel of the month to take and hold an edge

[Anonymous No.8503314]

>>8503305
>Being such a pleb you don't realize Shun is a massively overpriced pleb-catching brand targeted at clueless yuppies in Williams Sonoma
>Being such a pleb you think a better kitchen knife would have MORE carbides rather than less

P L E B
L
E
B

[Anonymous No.8503320]

>>8503314
I don't own a shun. But I guarantee even a shun is too good for you, steel-of-the-month guy

[Anonymous No.8503322]

>>8503305
Is that what you think he was saying? You do realize that VG10, or VG "Max," as KAI calls it, isn't very highly regarded in the cutlery community precisely because it's difficult to sharpen, right?

Bur formation is about as expected, but no matter how many times you fatigue the bur, it just won't come off on its own. When the bur is forcefully removed, it leaves a jagged edge that can make you to totally start over sharpening the knife. The bur on a VG10 knife must be abraded, which limits the kinds of edges you can put on it. KAI is, however, known for putting such a razor-thin edge on their knives that if you don't immediately re-sharpen the knife with a slightly blunter angle on the edge (and I mean OOTB), Shun knives are prone to chipping the first time you use them.

>>8503314
People frequently call Shun knives overpriced, but the prices they go for on Amazon seem about in line with the market, given their pretty high level of fit and finish. Yes, I know you can get VG10 knives for a little bit less money, but not at this level of F&F. Can you provide examples of knives you think that are the same level of quality or (ideally) the exact same product as Shun knives, but for a lower price?

[Anonymous No.8503334]

>>8503322
>Bur formation is
>Bur

[Anonymous No.8503344]

>>8503334
Misspelling the word doesn't make him wrong, you niger.

[Anonymous No.8503380]

>>8503322
It's not highly regarded because it's a "pleb" steel found on "pleb" knives you can find at the home goods store. It's certainly no easier to sharpen than your ultra hard supersteel of the month. You want an easy knife you can maintain with just about any sharpening gear under the sun, get an old carbon steel sab. You want to fuss around all day with your collection of $100 state of the art waterstones, then sure, sperg out over the pleb steels not being good enough for you

[Anonymous No.8503387]

>>8503380
I literally can't figure out what your position is here. It seems you just hate everything and your goal in life is to troll everybody.

[Anonymous No.8503403]

>>8503387
>I literally can't figure out what your position is here
Because the expected position is either "shun is the best because I can afford to shop at williams sonoma u pleb" or "shun is housewife pleb shit everyone should use steel-of-the-month it's a kind of rare martensitic super powder high speed unobtainium steel invented by seppuku industries of okinawa japan you've probably never heard of it and it's over 9000 HRC", and since I don't fall neatly into either bucket you don't know what default straw man argument to use against me

I think people who buy shun sometimes don't make the best choice, but more importantly people who shit on shun are retards who should know better but willfully refuse to see reason

[Anonymous No.8503411]

>>8503322

Here is basically the problem: the Shun has great fit and finish, but the heat treatment is shit, being notoriously prone to microchipping.

A Tojiro DP doesn't have the F&F but as a cutting tool it's MILES ahead. Beyond that I would literally take any carbon steel Japanese made equivalent available for the Shun's price or less over a Shun.

>>8503380

Just be quiet, you literally have no idea what you are talking about. In kitchen knife applications relatively pure carbon steels (1095, O-1, Aogami, Shirogami, 52100) and stainless steels designed to act like carbon steels (AEB-L, 13c26, Cronidur 30/LC200n) are much better choices than VG-10, while being EASIER to sharpen.

[Anonymous No.8503413]

>>8503403

The reason I'm having trouble following you is because you're getting emotionally invested in an argument that you appear not to have any personal stakes in. From everything I've seen so far, all you want to do is rail against knife enthusiasts for buying knives in anything other than 440C stainless steel made in China.

[Anonymous No.8503423]

>>8503411
I've been wondering, but has there ever been any independent testing done to prove that the hardness of Shun knives isn't all there? I've read a lot of people on knife forums who said that just putting a new edge on the knife can help you avoid chipping. They come out of the box sharp enough to shave with.

[Anonymous No.8503424]

>>8503411
>1095
Pleb, that steel has been around for decades, I only use steels that have been around since last Tuesday so I can lord it over the other neckbeards. Do you realize Old Hickory uses 1095? Yes, OLD Hickory. As in, plebs know about it. Stop posting forever, casual.

[Anonymous No.8503433]

>>8503413
I literally just said an old sab would be a better choice for most people than some stupid $400 powder steel thing that requires DARPA technology to maintain, what more do you want from me?

[Anonymous No.8503445]

>>8503433
I guess I'd like a little bit less sophistry and a little bit more argumentative integrity.

>it's an uncommon or new steel made specifically for knives - therefore it's bad!
Less of this.

[Anonymous No.8503450]

>>8503424

Ironically, 1095 is at pretty close to being at the cutting edge of applying metallurgy to optimizing heat treatments.

It's not that unusual for 1095 in the hands of modern custom makers to get accelerated quenches, multiple quenches, normalization, multiple tempers, etc.

Hell a couple of real bleeding edge types have tried using cryo to get 1095 to full martensite hardness (~67 HRC).

It's also pretty much the American equivalent of Shirogami.

[Anonymous No.8503453]

>>8503445
Complaining about buying knives that require expensive specialized abrasives to properly maintain is sophistry now?

[Anonymous No.8503457]

>>8503433

At what point did literally ANYONE argue in favor of high carbide steels for kitchen knife applications? The problem with VG-10 is that it has TOO MANY carbides, not too few.

[Anonymous No.8503458]

>>8501361
After reading your mini-thread of comments, this guy that you're talking to: admits to not knowing about knives, wants to get his girlfriend a nice knife because she's a knife nerd, and comes into a knife thread for help.

You then proceed to: infodump and spew peculiar opinions and anecdotes on knives that he probably doesn't care about, insinuate that women are dumb and can't possibly know about knives, proclaim that clueless anon has a broken relationship, will eventually go broke, and have an emotionally stunted family that will contribute to his inevitable suicide.

Wew. 10/10 would read again, thoroughly entertaining!

Are you okay, man? Have a hotdog racecar.

[Anonymous No.8503461]

>>8503457
And at what point did I say Shun is the best knife ever? Maybe, since I've already clarified my position, we can stop arguing over stuff nobody is arguing about?

[Anonymous No.8503462]

>>8503453
Which knives require any special sort of whetstone that other knives don't and are those other knives as good?

[Anonymous No.8503464]

>>8503453
>King 1000/4000 or 1000/6000
>Expensive
>Specialized

Okay.

[Anonymous No.8503467]

>>8501818
absolutely a classic. Thanks, anon.

[Anonymous No.8503473]

>>8503462
"Shitty" steels like SK4, SK5, Hitachi Yellow, 1095, and Hitachi White can be sharpened on any old stones, natural or otherwise. Those ridiculous super steel-of-the-week knives that some people fap over are a bitch to sharpen on anything except diamonds and a few high end stones (Shapton Glass or whatever)

[Anonymous No.8503482]

>>8503464
King makes about fifty different grades of stone, but yeah, your average cheap king combo stone isn't a lot of fun to use on a super hard super stainless.

[Anonymous No.8503507]

>>8503458
>You then proceed to: infodump and spew peculiar opinions and anecdotes on knives that he probably doesn't care about,
I tried my best to answer his question in multiple ways. I gave him specific examples of good "gift knives," and I also explained the importance of knowing more about his situation so he could buy a better, more relevant knife. When he eventually demonstrated that hadn't taken any of my advice seriously (>>8501325 "I'm not going to actually ask my gf what knives she wants so just tell me what knives she wants"), I simply reciprocated.

>b-but he "admits to not knowing about knives, wants to get his girlfriend a nice knife because she's a knife nerd, and comes into a knife thread for help."
There is a difference between words and actions. He can say that he's just a humble seeker of knowledge all he wants, but when he demonstrates that he's not actually interested in an answer to his question, I have to proceed accordingly.

[Anonymous No.8503510]

>>8503473
>Those ridiculous super steel-of-the-week knives that some people fap over
Cool specific examples, bro. You totally know what you're talking about. I believe you to be an authority on this subject.

[Anonymous No.8503524]

>>8503507
I'm aware that he's a disinterested doofus, but I thought it was funny that "proceeding accordingly" went south so quickly. Your frustration was palpable even though it was text-based.

[Anonymous No.8503534]

>>8503510
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=s30v+site%3Achefknivestogo.com

[Anonymous No.8503548]

>>8503534
So you don't actually have any relevant experience or knowledge to contribute to the topic that you brought up yourself. Thanks for the confirmation.

[Anonymous No.8503553]

>>8503548
In the kitchen knife area? No. My S30V knife is a spyderco and it's a bitch to sharpen on my king stones. Presumably, the same would be true of a kitchen knife, which is why I brought it up. If you have any reason to think a different size blade would make a huge difference, I'm all ears.

[Anonymous No.8503564]

>>8503534
>>http://lmgtfy.com/?q=s30v+site%3Achefknivestogo.com
>one knife result
>it's actually made out of 52100, not s30v

You're actually an idiot.

[Anonymous No.8503565]

>>8503564
>please spoon feed me
No

[Anonymous No.8503568]

>>8503565
>can't provide a single example of a kitchen knife made out of s30v to support his claims
>expects other people to help him out

>>8503553
So why the fuck are you in this thread?

[Anonymous No.8503615]

>>8503568
There are plenty of knives made in S30V, google is your friend

[Anonymous No.8503630]

>>8503615
>still can't provide a single example of a kitchen knife made in this steel or any of the other "super steels of the week" that he's apparently referring to in >>8503473
>doubling down about "google"

You're pathetic.

[Anonymous No.8503635]

>>8503630
>please teach me how to use google
>facts upset me therefore you're pathetic
No U

[Anonymous No.8503650]

>>8503635
(You)

[Anonymous No.8503661]

>>8503473
>>8503553
>>8503635

Are you literally brain damaged? NO ONE makes kitchen knives out of high carbide volume steels like s30v aside from the very occasional complete charlatan custom maker, and I haven't even seen a kitchen knife in 154CM in YEARS.

At no point in this thread whatsoever has anyone ever suggested that high carbide steels are a sensible choice for kitchen knives, and everyone has been trying to tell you that pure carbon steels are prized most highly amongst kitchen knife makers and users.

You are having an argument with no one in a thread about knives you don't even own or know the slightest thing about. Literally fuck off back to >>>/k/ you complete know nothing autismo.

[Anonymous No.8503685]

>>8503661
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/zdp189steel.html

Why are you in denial about this issue?

[Anonymous No.8503692]

>>8503685
>trying to prove that s30v kitchen knives are so prevalent to be a serious problem
>still can't find a single example
>finds a single maker producing high end niche knives out of a totally different steel

This isn't how logic and evidence work.

[Anonymous No.8503716]

>>8503692
>it wasn't the exact example I was hoping for therefore it's not an issue
Whatever you say boss

[Anonymous No.8503723]

>>8503716
(You)

[Anonymous No.8503725]

>>8503685

Maybe you should look up what vanadium is, how much of it is in s30v, and how much of it is in ZDP-189.

Hint: ZDP-189 is massively easier to sharpen than s30v.

Also, no one in these threads would advocate ZDP-189 for kitchen knives. It's actually not a very good choice for the application, and not very widely used by Japanese makers.

And before you come back with HAP40, I can tell you first hand that HAP40 is trivial to sharpen on cheap King stones, and is also not very widely used by makers.

The overwhelming majority of Japanese kitchen knives are in Aogami or Shirogami, which are in the range of 1095 to 52100 in terms of carbide volume. Those are the kinds of knives primarily advocated on here for those who want something more high end than a Tojiro DP in VG-10.

[Anonymous No.8503762]

>>8501361
Lmao what a faggot you are.

[Anonymous No.8503845]

>>8498028
I own almost that same knife but mine has a ceramic (Zirconium nitride I think) blade. Pretty cool little piece.

[Anonymous No.8503893]

I have a Victorinox fibrox meme knife (ATK whattup). However, I rather like the zippiness and percision of a santoku. Is the victronox with the granton edge worth getting? or do i have to figure out a whole range of santokus?

[Anonymous No.8504121]

>>8503893
I hate granton edges. Severely decrease life span of a knife if a decent amount of sharpening is happening or if it ever needs to be ground down due to knicks. They don't do much as far as sticking to the blade goes. I've used several and sometimes I wonder if the shape of the granton combined with the nature of the thing being cut ends up making a suction effect.
If you don't care about that, I don't think it makes it a terrible blade, and victorinox are fine.

[Anonymous No.8504130]

>>8490907
Shigeharu?

[Anonymous No.8504134]

>>8503725
I have literally never seen anyone in these threads recommending aogami or shirogami

52100 I've seen, AEB-L I've seen, but the paper steels are scorned because they're either "weeb shit" or because they're old, or because you can't leave them on your outdoor grill all winter and expect them not to have issues

[Anonymous No.8504135]

>>8504130
No, it's Anonymous.

[Anonymous No.8504175]

>>8504134

Not by name, but most of the high end knives that get discussed here are usually Japanese knives made from one of them.

Note I was saying what knives were advocated at the high end (I.e. above the Fibrox vs Tojiro DP tier).

[Anonymous No.8504185]

>>8504175
"Get discussed" as in "look at this weeb sword I got", sure. We see all kinds of stuff.

Nobody has ever *recommended* white or blue steel, it just doesn't happen. DP or Fibrox is the answer in 95% of the "wat knife iz gud", the exceptions are people trying to be funny or push memes (ulu guy, cleaver guy, etc).

If someone recommended it they'd get shouted down because "if they have to ask they're not ready for it" or some shit like that.

[Anonymous No.8504199]

>>8504134
>52100 I've seen
Really? Because I've barely been able to find any kitchen knives made out of this steel. There's the one made by Richmond, but aside from that, Google isn't providing much help.

The point that the faggot cross-boarder was trying to make was that kitchen cutlery is anywhere CLOSE to as diverse as pocket knives are in terms as using rare, boutique steel blends. He even mentioned s30v specifically by name, and then was totally unable to find a single example of a popular kitchen knife - or any kitchen knife - that uses that steel.

When it comes to German cutlery, each company seems to have their own main alloy that they stick with, maybe using something else for their highest end knives. For example, all Wusthof knives use the same alloy, and whether it's a stamped or forged piece of steel is dependent on the line of knives you buy. With Japanese cutlery, makers tend to choose from a pretty narrow selection of about a dozen main steel types, including carbon and stainless varieties. Looking at each individual Japanese knife maker, they will usually only have a max of 3-5 different knife lines using different steels, with many only offering one or two options, depending on tradition or customer preference.

The cross-boarder was trying to bring a grievance against kitchen knives that applies to a totally different situation. For example, look at the range of steels that Spyderco offers.
https://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/steel-chart/
There are a total of 73 different alloys you can get just a Spyderco knife made out of. Many of those are indeed "boutique" alloys with pretty narrow usefulness, even among pocket knives, and many have certain drawbacks, such as difficulty sharpening.

Now I'm not going to say that kitchen cutlery is totally immune from steelfag trends, but the rare knife made out of ZDP-189, or a trend for all the makers to start using AEB-L instead of VG-10, is a totally different order of magnitude than pocket knives.

[Anonymous No.8504201]

I have my Spyderco endura ffg I only have tactical types of knives to cook with (I live alone) it works great for me for an entire year.

[Anonymous No.8504206]

>>8504199
The one by Richmond is the one usually getting memed.

I'm the faggot cross boarder, I've barely set foot on /k/ and my Spyderco is the extent of my "interest" in non-cooking knives, if you can call it that.

And you yourself said VG-10 is a bitch to sharpen, so it seems to me you're just shifting the goalposts.

[Anonymous No.8504217]

>>8504206
VG-10 is annoying to sharpen because of how the *burr behaves. Not because the steel is too hard for sharpening stones, and that's not to say that it won' take an edge. You can get VG-10 razor sharp if you want to. Again, that doesn't mean that kitchen knives are at all comparable pocket knives in terms of susceptibility to steelfag trends.

[Anonymous No.8504239]

>>8504217
I just wanted a good knife a year ago. Not sure how I'm a steelfag although after dealing with vg10 I can say I kind of also enjoy softer steels because of the ease of sharpening

[Anonymous No.8504245]

>>8504199

I would avoid any Richmond knives. CKTG outsources there production to the lowest bidder and doesn't give a shit about QC on the steel.

CKTG's Japanese house brand stuff (Kohetsu) is fine because the producer they outsource it to in Japan does their own QC.

[Anonymous No.8504257]

>>8504206

As >>8504217 said, VG-10 can be difficult to sharpen in terms of SKILL, not in terms of grindability. At lower hardness especially, VG-10 tends to form a large, difficult to remove burr which can be challenging for novice sharpeners to deal with.

Honestly, if you think VG-10 is low grindability you should try sharpening Maxamet at ~70 HRC on a King 1K/4K combo stone.

That will teach you what an actually hard to grind steel is.

[Anonymous No.8504262]

get a belt sander and a handful of the appropriate belts, a lap wheel and some rouge for the easiest, best edge possible.

hands down the best answer

[Anonymous No.8504271]

Thoughts on the INNOX steel knives made by Suisin and Togiharu? It seems Korin is the only company that carries any knife in this steel.

[Anonymous No.8504280]

my everyday knife at work.

just a preference on german steel. sharpen it once or twice a month holds its edge really well.

[Anonymous No.8504307]

>>8504280
16cm? or did you just take a quick pic off google to show the type of knife and brand?

[Anonymous No.8504322]

I'm sitting on a 180 and 200mm chef knife, a vegetable knife and a pairing knife. Whats the next knife I should look into, I'm trying to do more of anything and everything in the kitchen which will and already includes making bread and fish

[Anonymous No.8504345]

>>8504262

Well, aside from de-tempering the edge and getting garbage edge taking and edge holding as a result.

[Anonymous No.8504357]

>>8504271
>58-60 HRC

I don't see why you would bother choosing these over Tojiro DP?

[Anonymous No.8504362]

>>8504357
Maybe he's nostalgic for the old days when DP was made from 19c27

[Anonymous No.8504381]

>>8504362

The problem is more the hardness than the steel choice. In a thin geometry gyuto you want something harder than ~59 HRC. At least he Tojiro DPs are in the 61 range, but I'd want even higher than that for a gyuto.

The primary wear mechanism for a chef's knife is microscopic apex chipping and rolling from cutting board contacts. As a result, the primary desirable trait in a steel for this type of application is high apex stability (which is precisely defined as resistance to microscopic apex chipping and rolling).

Apex stability tends to increase with hardness, finer grain structures, and lower carbide volumes, and decrease with at softer hardness, coarser grain structures and higher carbide volumes.

Basically the harder the better as long as it doesn't get so brittle you start having problems with macroscopic chipping.

[Anonymous No.8504553]

>>8504322
Maybe a 240mm chef's knife/gyuto or a 270mm+ slicer/sujihiki for long cuts?

[Anonymous No.8504587]

>>8498003
Eat ramen until you can buy one, or get a Dexter-Russell instead of a Victorinox once you are able to buy one.

>needing to cheap out when knives like those just need me to work for one hour

[Anonymous No.8504630]

>>8491142
I assume these are people cutting up fish all day

Try cutting up a bag of onions with a bare, unpatinated carbon blade and see how that works out

[Anonymous No.8504635]

>>8504630
>assuming there are no onions in japanese food

[Anonymous No.8504640]

>>8504635
So then how do they get the black residue and sulfer/corrosion stink out of the onions if they're scrubbing the patina off their knives obsessively?

[Anonymous No.8504685]

>>8504635
not often only in various don (eg katsudon, oyakodon, gyuudon) and in nikujaga. mostly just use jp leek and scallions

玉ねぎはほとんどに洋食に使う。

ばか

[Anonymous No.8504742]

>>8504685
>玉ねぎはほとんどに洋食に使う。
You think that when they prepare western foods, they switch to stainless knives?

[Anonymous No.8505453]

>>8497960
I done did it tonight.
Put a fine edge on it too. I've been abusing it a bit to the point that honing wasn't doing the trick.

[Anonymous No.8505705]

>>8505453
Looks nice and comfy now, gud job

[Anonymous No.8505719]

>>8495950
Try a bronze knife. Bronze knives are very resistant to high pressure, deep sea seawater and they won't set off any mines becausethey are not magnetic. I fear you will need to have one custom made, though.

[Anonymous No.8505728]

>>8496986
Diesease isn't caused by divine retribution?

[Anonymous No.8505764]

>>8496986
I blame a lack of decent parentage and not enough beatings

[Anonymous No.8505779]

>>8504322
If you are looking to get into bread and baking you are definitely going to need a bread knife/bread saw. Have a look at Güde, they iterally invented the things and have some insane knives on offer.

[Anonymous No.8505791]

>>8504553
>>8505779
I'll look into this thanks guise

[Anonymous No.8505805]

>>8495937
Fucking kek

[Anonymous No.8507002]

bump for sharpness

[Anonymous No.8507041]

>>8504685
So due to the leeks and scallions being less reactive, scrubbing off the patina isn't much of an issue?

[Anonymous No.8507060]

There's lots of people here who own the Tojiro DP, but does anybody have any experience with the Tojiro F-520, aka powdered high speed steel knives? I hear it's thinner and made of a better steel.

[Anonymous No.8507941]

>>8507060

I would be quite wary of buying a knife here the maker will not tell you the exact steel being used or roughly the hardness it's being run at.

If you have the sharpening equipment to handle high speed steels, then I would probably go for a Kohetsu in HAP40 at ~65 HRC instead.

I have a wa-handled Kohetsu in Aogami Super and have been extremely happy with it. The Japanese producer that Chef's Knives to Go outsourced the production of these to is known to have excellent QC.

[Anonymous No.8507961]

>>8501810

I've seen guys do this in under a minute with a $10,000 blade

[Anonymous No.8508008]

Well these were a xmas gift, I didn't even ask for them, but I've become increasingly interested in teaching myself how to cook before I turn 30.

[Anonymous No.8508087]

>>8508008
The Grand Prix II's are a great value. You get the same forged stainless steel blade that's used in higher end Wusties, but at a much lower price. The plastic handle's overall "feel" a little lacking, but it works jut fine at staying grippy when wet. That's a nice functional set of knives, too. Whoever bought it knew what they were doing and knew how to make their money go a long way.

[Anonymous No.8508103]

>>8508087
>t-thanks mom

She is really smart desu

[Anonymous No.8508147]

>>8507941
>I would be quite wary of buying a knife here the maker will not tell you the exact steel being used or roughly the hardness it's being run at.
You do realize that Tojiro is a well known brand, right? I assume the steel they use is the powdered steel, SG2/R2, that so many other Japanese makers use - not some proprietary blend. The question is really about this particular knife from Tojiro, not if Tojiro is a more reputable brand than CKTG (which they are).

[Anonymous No.8508664]

>>8504345
A belt sander doesn't harm the edge if you know what you are doing. One just needs to use a low grit belt (e.g. 80 grit, those generate less friction and less heat), use VERY little pressure and move the blade across the belt really quickly, like in under 2 seconds for a 240mm blade. Then remove theburr with a cotton cloth wheel and rough buffing compound. I have achieved very good results with this method, with no noticeable de-temper of the edge. It would be evn easier if I had an adjustable sander, but my pos cheapo runs flat out all the time.

[Anonymous No.8508668]

>>8508008
Good kit, for any serious hobby cook who is not under 5' tall I'd recommend at least a 9'' chef knife and a 10'' bread knife, but this will do fine.

[Anonymous No.8508687]

>>8508008
>bolster

[Anonymous No.8508722]

Anybody ever install feet on a cutting board that didn't come with feet? What did you use?

[Anonymous No.8508781]

>>8504685
×玉ねぎはほとんどに洋食に使う。
〇玉ねぎはほとんど洋食に使う。

why are you pretend japanese?

[Anonymous No.8508868]

>>8507941
>I would be quite wary of buying a knife here the maker will not tell you the exact steel being used or roughly the hardness it's being run at.

Do we really have to have this whole argument again?

[Anonymous No.8508953]

>>8508664

Here is an entire thread involving PhD metallurgist Roman Landes clarifying that power grinding steel without active liquid cooling always and inevitably damages the heat treatment in the first few microns of the steel (which is the entire depth of the apex):

http://www.hypefreeblades.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=391&start=0

[Anonymous No.8508960]

>>8508781
You missed the part where he said scallions instead of welsh onions

[Anonymous No.8508972]

>>8508147
>I assume the steel they use is the powdered steel, SG2/R2

I prefer not to assume, especially since your assumption doesn't make sense. SG2 is not a high speed steel, and based on its chemical composition would be much less suitable for kitchen knife applications than HAP40.

>The question is really about this particular knife from Tojiro, not if Tojiro is a more reputable brand than CKTG (which they are).

Sorry, I didn't realize you just wanted others to greenlight the purchasing decision you've already made.

[Anonymous No.8509033]

>>8508972
Im pretty sure the Takamura HSPS is an sg2 though

[Anonymous No.8509113]

>>8509033

If Japanese makers are selling SG2/R2 as a high speed steel then they are misleading consumers.

High speed steels were originally developed for industrial applications where existing steels were getting so hot in use that they were being de-tempered. High speed steels significant amounts of cobalt and/or tungsten, and/or large amounts of molybdnem to increase the hot hardness of the steel (I.e. it's a ability to retain its heat treatment when hot).

Also, virtually all high speed steels have a maximum of about 5-7.5% chromium and are not stainless. I believe this is because adding more chromium would prevent other elements from.forming carbides in the steel since chromium forms carbides before any other elements than vanadium.

Now, SG2/R2 has 16% chromium, very little molybdenum and no tungsten or cobalt, therefore it is NOT a high speed steel, period.

[Anonymous No.8509123]

>>8508953
not this bullshit again, this revolves around one single unrepeated study that was questionable in the first place, Roman Landes can suck a dick, he's a tool steel engineer anyway, he knows fuck all about kitchenry

>tl;dr I cut my tomatoes on an industrial planer

[Anonymous No.8509149]

>>8509123
>not this bullshit again, this revolves around one single unrepeated study that was questionable in the first place

As opposed to your wholly unsupported assertions. Feel free to empirically challenge the work with data if you can, otherwise, I am going to take that one empirical study over the ZERO anyone wanting to challenge it's conclusions have done.

>Roman Landes can suck a dick, he's a tool steel engineer anyway, he knows fuck all about kitchenry

Yeah, I mean, why would a tool steel engineer care about unintentional de-tempering in grinding applications without liquid cooling, anyway?

That type of scenario is much more likely to occur in someone's kitchen rather than an industrial application.

Oh wait.

Sorry, belt sander edges are crap.

[Anonymous No.8509213]

>>8509149
>that one empirical study
>on a completely unrelated topic

ok, voodoo man, you do you. kill a chicken before your next investment at the camel races, I hear it helps your luck

[Anonymous No.8509261]

>>8509213
>In that book i found a test application.
A normal steel block apx. 2"x2"x4" that had a large number of highly sensitive thermocouples integrated in the surface.
The block was slit dry by hand over a 1000grit grinding paper.
>
The peak temps measured, walked up to 2000°C for split seconds in the very surface (some microns).

Yup, that definitely sounds totally unrelated to the effects of dry power grinding steel.

[Anonymous No.8509265]

>>8509213
>In that book i found a test application.
>A normal steel block apx. 2"x2"x4" that had a large number of highly sensitive thermocouples integrated in the surface.
>The block was slit dry by hand over a 1000grit grinding paper.
>The peak temps measured, walked up to 2000°C for split seconds in the very surface (some microns).
>Yup, that definitely sounds totally unrelated to the effects of dry power grinding steel.

[Anonymous No.8509269]

>>8509213
>>8509265

Yup, that sounds totally unrelated to dry power grinding knife edges.

Oh wait, actually this effect would be much worse in dry power grinding knife edges because the friction is many times higher and the contact area is smaller and much thinner. Hmm.

[Anonymous No.8509288]

>>8509265
>>8509269
>current year
>not even understanding industrial grinding equipment vs low speed home belt grinders
>not even referencing the research that shows hand grinding producing similar instant edge temps at the micron level

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYgOlqinH7A

[Anonymous No.8509312]

>>8509288
>not even referencing the research that shows hand grinding producing similar instant edge temps at the micron level

Yes. In dry hand grinding without lubricant.

That you don't seem to realize how damning the implications of that are compared to dry grinding with a belt sander is similarly damning of you.

Here are a couple more thread on the subject that you should read, but since you've admitted that the effect occurs with dry hand grinding, this argument is now over because you've just admitted in totality that the problem occurs much more severely with dry power grinding since the friction is much higher, the contact area on an apex is much smaller, and a knife apex is much thinner than the test you have admitted was correct.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1117568-How-does-everyone-do-their-final-sharpening

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1161163-Losing-temper-when-sharpening-Has-anyone-tested-this

[Anonymous No.8509325]

>>8509312
>bladeforums
>where Kevin "Mad Dog" McClung got started
>takes pay for play from knifemakers
>banned Cliff Stamp
>the only actual knife scientist

stay sharp, my little nugget. Someday you'll come to understand reality

[Anonymous No.8509386]

>>8509325

You meant he Cliff Stamp who categorically opposes dry power grinding knife edges? Who is one of the main people in online knife discussions advocating the position that ALL power grinding of heat treated steel should be done with active liquid cooling?

That Cliff Stamp?

http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/forum/read.php?7,63208,63242

Hmm. Looks like "the only actual knife scientist" also disagrees with you in totality.

[Anonymous No.8509439]

>>8509386
I think you need new reading glasses, Granny. All he talks about is reducing risk and variables. After all, he's a scientist, not a fundie like you

Sorry if you're too awkward to use a belt sander safely on your knives, it takes all of 20 minutes and some practice to figure it out and not burn your edges

[Anonymous No.8509477]

>>8509439

http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/forum/read.php?7,63208,page=2

>CliffStamp
>It is trivial to use a coolant, the cost is literally a few dollars worth of parts for a basic setup (drip cooler) and not much more for a mister. Beyond the cooling it also makes it easier to grind (more control, less pauses) and saves belt life as it reduces friction losses and wear and it keeps a lot of the dust out of the air. It makes no sense to run abrasives dry.

>Here is the concern, how do you tell when not using coolant, if the edge is over heated? Here are the common answers that people give :

>-I can hold onto the knife and I don't get burned
>-the knife is quenched often
>-when it is quenched it doesn't seem to heat the water much
>-I don't see the steel discolor

>None of these are sufficient to ensure the steel isn't being over heated, hence the steel is being subject to a random increase in temperature for an uncontrolled period of time and then quenched (in a fluid for which most steels isn't suitable) so the edge is under going rapid expansion and contraction. In combination with this known issue is the fairly steady stream of issue of knives from manufacturers who grind without coolant which have the exact problems you would expect from dry grinding, and the fewer (but still existing) knives which are actually visually over heated (oxidization visible).

>Does using coolant mean you can't over heat a knife, well of course it doesn't, it simply reduces the heat transfer by friction. As this is nothing more than waste energy it also increases belt life and general grinding efficiency. >
>The question is why do something that :

>-increases risk of heat damage
>-reduces belt life
>-reduces grinding efficiency

[Anonymous No.8509482]

>>8509439

http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/forum/read.php?7,63208,page=2

>CliffStamp
>The abrasive will produce significant heat without lubrication and coolant by basic thermodynamics (frictional losses). Roman has shown that this can even cause over heating with dry grinding by hand, without power. There is considerable literature on over heating without coolant when power grinding hence the constant research into lubricating coolants for industrial grinding. They are used simply because they increase performance. Just simply ask yourself why do you want power going into heating the knife when it could be cutting instead? Why would any maker argue that it is better to waste energy heating up the blade vs actually cutting it with the abrasive? But yet that is exactly what dry grinders are doing. Further this potential for damage is born out out with raw data because there is a constant stream of overheated knives from manufacturers with obviously overheated blades (which show oxidization damage) all who dry grind.

[Anonymous No.8509493]

>>8493736
Working on the line can mean less space to work

[Anonymous No.8509500]

>>8509477
>>8509482

>Again, it is a point of risk not certainty.
from the exact same post
>boom headshot

don't post here again.

[Anonymous No.8509549]

>>8509500

You already admitted above you accept the results of Roman Landes work here >>8509288 and Cliff explicitly states that he accepts the results of Roman Landes work on this subject here >>8509482.

I understand that you are eager to divert into shitposting because you want to distract from having admitted that you are wrong, but I have no interest in entertaining your petulant screeching.

[Anonymous No.8509772]

Ok guys

What guide do you reccomend to maintain knifes? Western or japanese

[Anonymous No.8509779]

>>8509113
>>8508972
Go back to CKTG and suck Richmond's dick some more. Holy shit, you're an annoying shitposter.

[Anonymous No.8509790]

>>8509123
>I don't agree with a scientific study, but instead of disproving the findings, I'm going to call it "a single unrepeated study" and pretend like that's an argument
Go electrocute your balls.

[Anonymous No.8509815]

>>8509779

Actually I think CKTG are assholes and specifically recommended avoiding anything in their Richmond lines here:

>>8504245

The japanese maker they outsource the production of their Kohetsu branded knives has a solid reputation, however.

And none of that changes that SG2/R2 is NOT a high speed steel, and is far less suitable for kitchen knife applications than any HSS would be for reasons I would be happy to explain to you, if you want to learn something.

[Anonymous No.8509821]

>>8509815
Who gives a fuck about semantics. Is the named Tojiro knife good or now? Can't answer? Then move along.

[Anonymous No.8509848]

what's a good affordable steel and how do I use one?

[Anonymous No.8509870]

>>8509821

[Anonymous No.8509885]

>>8509848

Don't. An abrasive pasted balsa wood strop would be better in every way.

[Anonymous No.8510683]

>>8495937
Kek oh you