vegatarian

[Anonymous No.7958691]

i've recently started making the transition into becoming vegatarian, was wondering if could offer any tips recipies or just talk, im finding it difficult resist eating meat atm

[Anonymous No.7958693]

>>7958691
Vegetarians are grand cucks
Every last one of them

[Anonymous No.7958707]

>>7958693
why is that?

[Anonymous No.7958715]

>>7958691
At taco bell you can replace meat with beans.

[Anonymous No.7958722]

>>7958715
appriciate the thought, thanks

[Anonymous No.7958724]

>>7958693
>but muh pro tin brah breh bruh bro

[Anonymous No.7958728]

>>7958691
step 1-eat meat
step2-????
step3-profit

[Anonymous No.7958743]

>>7958728
>>7958715
>>7958693
are you guys unable to discuss anything other than fast food, the sharpest overpriced knife ever or that fat guy that inhales the sloppyest food?

[Anonymous No.7958775]

>>7958743
i can discuss meat

[Anonymous No.7958776]

>>7958743
/ck/ is full of fat atheist man children what do you expect?

[Anonymous No.7958778]

If you find it difficult eating meat, eat meat. Not all the time. Lessen your intake. It's bad for you. So are desserts, but who would want to live a life without them? Moderation is key, and takes the most self-will -- it's easy not to give party to something if you've forgotten what it tastes like, so vegetarianism is just the fool's way of reducing their meat intake.

I go off of this model, but it's up to you:

Fish can be had any week
Chicken and pork can be had every two weeks
Red meat can be had monthly
Milk and eggs, whenever

And remember, our evolutionary history is congruent entirely with that of cooking and eating meat -- the nutritional value of meat and the ease of digesting it when fire-roasted took work off of our digestive system and led to the expansion of our brain. We wouldn't be communicating right now or cooking at such a high level without meat.

Vegetarianism and especially veganism are degenerate intrinsically and do not exist without the glut formed by rampant meat over-production -- ironically, vegans rely on and cannot exist without meat culture. I could go further into this, if you want, but for now my post is too long.

[Anonymous No.7958783]

>>7958776
What does atheism have to do with it? The only outright vegetarian religion is Jainism and that's due to their historical resource bounty.

[Anonymous No.7958784]

>>7958691
Don't resist eating meat. Gradually introduce awesome vegetarian foods into your diet. For instance, grilled cheese with tomato soup. Or Amy's Kitchen frozen stuff. The easiest thing to make as a vegetarian is burritos. Get or make some refried beans, cheese, and salsa and just fill 'er up. Eggs with salsa and fake bacon from the grocery store used to be my breakfast standby. (used to be = I can't be veggie right now since I'm really sick). Ezekiel bread is another godsend; really high in protein, just toast it, slather avocado on there or some other toppings like tapenade or garlic olive oil and you're set. Also consider homemade hummus with whole wheat pita and a lot of olive oil, greek salads with feta, spanakopita, and just about anything from a Hare Krishna temple. They'll feed you for free, try to convert you (lol) and have cookbooks that you can buy. The food is pretty good desu. Oh, one more thing: Indian food. Fuckin' Indian food. You'll never go hungry again if you cook Indian as a veggie. I recommend Youtube cooking channel Megha's Cooking Channel.

[Anonymous No.7958785]

>>7958691
Lemme think

>eat some vegetables, fruits, and beans
That's about all you've got

[Anonymous No.7958793]

>>7958778
>It's bad for you

[Anonymous No.7958797]

>>7958693
this, but not for the reasons you think

if you any sense of ethics veganism is the only way
vegetarianism is only a bit above carnism in that you are still resulting in the torture and death of animals
vegetarians are cucks because they sacrifice the taste of meat but are still unethical

vegetarianism is a good transition though it may be hard, but good luck whichever way you end up going!

As far as any cravings:
spinach and its iron can help reduce that
also French Fries definitely are a good replacement for the savory taste of meat
burritos with lots of guacamole are really good for that purpose too
make sure you drink enough water too

don't worry, after a while even the smell of meat will seem disgusting and rancid to you
it just happens over time

[Anonymous No.7958798]

>>7958793
Red meat is demonstrably bad for you, that's why my intake is mostly fish, which is good for you, and poultry and sow, which are decent.

[Anonymous No.7958806]

>>7958793
http://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/

[Anonymous No.7958811]

Vegetarian is easy mode, to be honest. There's not much nutritional advice to give, or any really, and you don't really have to watch your nutrient intake or anything special. That, and there's really no issue going to restaurants, since the ability to eat dairy and eggs actually gives you a ton of stuff to pick from most places.

As far as the transition itself goes, two things. 1. It's gradual. You're not gonna go from eating steak at every meal to being a vegetarian overnight, but somebody who's already eating mostly vegetarian with the occasional piece of chicken once or twice a week will have no problem cutting out what's already a minority factor in their diet. 2. Don't think of yourself as a meat-eater trying to become a vegetarian. Think of yourself as a vegetarian giving up something antithetical to you. This is important in actually sticking to it.

Good luck.

[Anonymous No.7958818]

>>7958797
>if you any sense of ethics veganism is the only way
I know that it's very easy to think of yourself as Jesus when you picture the doe-eyed animals you're sparing by your consumer choices, but veganism in an industrialized society is still tethered to the ramifications of this society. So long as you are paying taxes, have electricity rerouted into your living quarters, have living quarters made of materials that were ripped from the Earth, wear clothing that was spun or synthesized from natural resources, type on devices or own or use any devices smelted from nature in toto, you are engaging in the slaughter of animals.

Comfort is necessitated on blood. Survival, no matter how much 'progress' we've attained, is necessitated on blood. Blood of people, blood of animals. Your consumer choice of buying the meatless variant of a product at the center of alignments of factory-line labor and highway or jetway shipment and all the resources consumed therein, does not eject you out of this reality, easy as it is for you to be blinded and feel as though it does by the comfort you enjoy necessitated on blood.

[Anonymous No.7958821]

>>7958778
i would very much like you to expand on that, if you have the time

[Anonymous No.7958823]

>>7958806
>who
Fuck off with your meme health organizations. They have an agenda to get rid of animal husbandry

[Anonymous No.7958824]

>>7958778
>vegans rely on and cannot exist without meat culture. I could go further into this, if you want, but for now my post is too long.

intersting...
explain pls?

[Anonymous No.7958827]

>>7958784
thanks alot dude, i really appricate the info gonna check out the meghas cooking channel now and i like your adea of the ezekiel bread and aocado

[Anonymous No.7958829]

>>7958797
>if you any sense of ethics veganism is the only way
>implying it's immoral to kill non-humans for food

[Anonymous No.7958834]

>>7958797
thanks dude, its not so much the tast of meat in that sense, more the habbit of eating meat without any thought at all and becuase of it the lack of knowladge about veggie only alternatives for example, a nice salade what can i bulk it up with, id just go for ham or chicken,

[Anonymous No.7958837]

>>7958821
I just did here: >>7958818

Adding to that, and to give conclusion to that: veganism cannot exist without industrialization. Without industrialization, which no matter what is causing direct or indirect animal slaughter, veganism cannot exist.

I mean this in a very strict sense. Let's think up a scenario where there is no industry. Humans work as farmhands, there is trade only by boat, there is no factory culture. In this scenario, we would have to, by necessity, rely on animal husbandry. Depending on the native plants and fruits of wherever you might be, it's likely that there wouldn't be complete nutritional balance -- especially since, in our scenario, without industry there are no synthesized vitamins and supplements.

We would need milk, we would need meat, we would need wool and byproducts. We would rely heavily on schmaltz, among other full use of our animals. In this scenario, which I consider ideal, the moral equation disappears. A cow you rely on has more emotional importance than any imagined cow a vegan is saving. A real, strong meaning, the only meaning an animal can have outside of the din of violent chaotic nature, is to be sheltered by humans and revered by humans who NEED the animal. These animals are respected fully, and their slaughter is sacrifice. It has weight. There is nothing but weightlessness to the egocentrism of vegan 'sacrifice' and 'salvation' nor the industrialized meat-farm holocaust.

Introduce veganism to 95% of societies where they don't have things like turkey bacon at the local walmart that doesn't exist, and you would be committing genocide on these nations.

[Anonymous No.7958845]

>>7958818
>"The world is full of injustice and exploitation!"

>option A - actively contribute to more exploitation and destruction

>option B - do not actively contribute to more exploitation and destruction

wew lad

>Comfort is necessitated on blood. Survival, no matter how much 'progress' we've attained, is necessitated on blood.

psst nothing personnel kid

[Anonymous No.7958846]

>>7958837
Woops, by 'turkey bacon' I meant 'tofurkey bacon.'

[Anonymous No.7958847]

>>7958818
what your saying here
> I know that it's very easy to think of yourself as Jesus when you picture the doe-eyed animals you're sparing by your consumer choices, but veganism in an industrialized society is still tethered to the ramifications of this society. So long as you are paying taxes, have electricity rerouted into your living quarters, have living quarters made of materials that were ripped from the Earth, wear clothing that was spun or synthesized from natural resources, type on devices or own or use any devices smelted from nature in toto, you are engaging in the slaughter of animals.

seems to be boardering on conspiricy theroy levels, typing on my computer, somehow kills a cow is a little far fetched, now i see what your getting out, but what a stretch it is/

[Anonymous No.7958851]

>>7958806
WHO LAD A WHOLE 34k CANCER PER YEAR

According to the most recent estimates by the Global Burden of Disease Project, an independent academic research organization, about 34 000 cancer deaths per year worldwide are attributable to diets high in processed meat.

>Eating red meat has not yet been established as a cause of cancer.

Top fucking WHO

[Anonymous No.7958857]

>>7958845
Your consumer choice not to buy meat is supplanted by the fact that everything else you contribute to the industrialized society this consumer choice takes place in sustains that society. Just because you don't buy meat doesn't mean you're not actively connected to the slaughter of animals.

Also, no, I'm not going to let your cognitive dissonance, practiced as it may be, remove you from the truth. History is a channel of blood, and you are spilling a runnel, somewhere, from someone or something, every day.

[Anonymous No.7958859]

>>7958851
?who?

[Anonymous No.7958867]

>>7958691
Why is transitioning only used to describe black and white things?

>You either eat meat or not
>You either have a penis or not

>>7958859
huh?

[Anonymous No.7958869]

>>7958847
How is it conspiracy? Human industry has demonstrably displaced the natural swing of the ecosystem such that animals have gone extinct as direct result. You don't think you engaging in this society, giving money to this society at every turn, multiple times per day, you don't think you're culpable for those deaths? Not to mention what I say here: >>7958857

[Anonymous No.7958879]

>>7958691
>Not vegan
So you don't kill the cow but are ok with torturing it forever and the Alf getting killed when it's old enough to stop lactating?

[Anonymous No.7958881]

>>7958867
its more like breaking a habit, and ofc your idea that anything is simply black and white is laughable

[Anonymous No.7958894]

>>7958879
i dont drink milk anyway and very rarly eat cheese , i just didnt specify, and my reasoning for want to go veggie is more to see the benifits/cons of such a diet with all the talk, i thought why just read/hear stuff that other people have said about this and that and try it out for myself

[Anonymous No.7958896]

>>7958881
Yeah no, I quit nicotine, you know how I did? I stopped putting the chemical in my body. This isn't a Marx-esque synthesis here.

[Anonymous No.7958902]

>>7958894
So you torture very rarely, that's fine. I guess you are ok with getting raped just a little bit too

[Anonymous No.7958907]

>>7958896
so, one day you woke up after your day of smoking 20 and just quit?, you didnt slowly reduce your intake then one day was your last after the instake became minimal ands thats your "black and white" line?

[Anonymous No.7958914]

>>7958907
Yep, picked a day and stopped. If you are still intaking nicotine, you are still a filthy addict.

[Anonymous No.7958915]

>>7958902
im afraid you are trying to hard darling, but since you are atleast trying to bait me albet poorly bless you, heres your (you)

[Anonymous No.7958923]

>>7958914
sounds like your all talk

[Anonymous No.7958924]

hey anon, I'm not quite as far in as you are (decided to reduce meat to once a week) and I just wanted to say good luck.

I started using tomatoes for many dishes (cherry work best) because they add flavor to everything and make it taste more "umami". Meaning they have a natural high content of glutamate, which might help with the meat cravings.

Fake meat can be a good way to transition if you miss the texture.

[Anonymous No.7958926]

>>7958857
>Your consumer choice not to buy meat is supplanted by the fact that everything else you contribute to the industrialized society this consumer choice takes place in sustains that society

I don't think I understand what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say that because I live within a society and am a part of that society then therefore I am responsible for the bad things done by other people in that society? Even though I am trying to change that society?

>Just because you don't buy meat doesn't mean you're not actively connected to the slaughter of animals.
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "actively"...
I do not go out of my way to pay people to kill animals for me. Sure I don't deny that some animals die to support a plant based diet such as pest protection to prevent rats from eating farmers crops etc...
But the whole business where people go out of their way to raise animals for slaughter I do not pay them and therefore support the demand for those products.

Obviously its impossible to never hurt another thing in your life, but the goal of Veganism and animal rights is to end as much unnecessary animal suffering as is practicable.

As for the history of blood thing. Obviously the majority of things we enjoy now were built out of blood. But we do not need animal agriculture. Not only is that reasoning edgy but illogical. Should you not give a fuck about humans being enslaved because "oh well history is channel of blood nothing you can do about it don't try to stop"?

[Anonymous No.7958930]

>>7958923
Nope, five years this August 1. Also, *you're.

[Anonymous No.7958936]

>>7958691
doughnut bee aye vaginaterranean oar pea pole wheel thee ink u r knot coal

[Anonymous No.7958938]

Can we please not go all political in a discussion about vegetarian recipes
thanks

[Anonymous No.7958942]

>>7958924
thanks for the suggestion, whats your reasoning for going veggie?

[Anonymous No.7958952]

>>7958938
It's actually impossible here (and possibly anywhere) because no matter how civil you are about making vegfag threads of any variety, out shall come the kneejerk reactionary carnisticucks. Sorry, I wish it were possible, but it isn't.

[Anonymous No.7958954]

>>7958942
I'm not there yet :) I don't know if I'll ever be. Honestly, the only reason is health. I can't say I'm a animal rights activist at all.

[Anonymous No.7958963]

>>7958952
Oh well. We can just contribute content to fight the political discussion.

I also started eating lots of pasta since I reduced meat. But I find that I feel significantly fuller from whole wheat pasta. This can compensate the lack of meat in pasta sauce.

[Anonymous No.7958964]

>>7958954
Then you probably shouldn't waste the effort and simply control your eating without cutting out any specific food type like meat or dairy.
All of the experts here on /ck/ agree that the only leg vegetarianism and veganism might have to stand on is ethics and even that's constantly disputed, as for health however, the results are in and it's neutral at best, if not entirely detrimental to your health.

[Anonymous No.7958965]

>>7958954
im in the same situation as you are really then, just was hoping i could get the good nudge from some more knowlageable and experienced than myself

[Anonymous No.7958968]

>>7958964
I haven't cut it completely. I reduced it to once a week, which is reasonable, I think. Plus it makes the meat tastier when you don't eat it as often.

[Anonymous No.7958974]

>>7958963
I'd recommend quinoa pasta, I don't quite know why, but something about it tastes much better to me than any of the other veganfaggot pasta styles. I specifically really like the Ancient Harvest brand if I'm recalling the name correctly.

[Anonymous No.7958985]

>>7958974
Hey, thanks for the tip! I heard a lot about quinoa lately. It contains more protein, right?

[Anonymous No.7958988]

>>7958691
Carbs carbs carbs and don't go crazy with eggs and dairy to compensate for the other things you just took out of your diet. You will get fat. Eat lots of pastas and whole foods. I have some cookbook recommendations if you're interested. The only time you'll crave meat is when you're underfed.

Also McDonald's fries are not vegetarian.

[Anonymous No.7959000]

>>7958988
>Also McDonald's fries are not vegetarian.
Yes they are, dipshit!

[Anonymous No.7959007]

>>7958985
Supposedly, admittedly I don't usually check out how healthy what I eat is.
I mostly eat fresh fruit, vegetables and other simple dishes made from ordinary kitchen foods that just so happen to be vegan because some (not all) vegfag items, be they faux meat, dairy or what have you, are too expensive for a peasantfaggot like myself.

[Anonymous No.7959012]

>>7958988
Forgot to add, try not to make vegetarian threads here too often. Everyone here is a fat pig who pours cheese, oil, and mayo all over everything and wouldn't know a healthy meal if it hit them in the dick. The majority of people here love shitposting about people who are healthier than they are and spreading lies because they're insecure about their weights or whatever. I also suggest watching some of those Netflix movies about the health benefits and stuff.

>>7959000
No they are not.

[Anonymous No.7959018]

>>7958985
Seitan is a good protein source. Better than Quinoa. Also nuts but they're fatty

[Anonymous No.7959024]

>>7958926
If you read my other replies, I make the case that we in fact DO need animals, and that I in fact am in total support of as little animal harm as possible, in a state of things where, regardless, we must kill and eat them.

You actually think that your part in industrial society has no effect, has no contributing element? Industrial society can NOT be changed into a vegan society, because even if it were, the industry behind vegan synthetic vitamins and prepackaged food and even globalized plant distribution would kill animals.

You're focusing too hard on direct slaughter. Animals are killed by different things. Think about ecology. By living in a city, think of the animals you displace. By your emissions, think of the worse atmosphere you've created. Think of the deaths not of individual slaughtered animals, but the reduced quality of life for generations of animals, before the industry you give money to makes them literally extinct.

Your idea of how connected you are to society, and how connected that society is to animals, is absolutely not nuanced. The reality, however, is endlessly nuanced.

[Anonymous No.7959037]

>>7959000
Very few fast-food fries are vegetarian, much less vegan because they often use lard, fat or oils in the vats to cook fries in that they do when cooking meat and other similar things, usually sourced from meat.
Same with beans in most restaurants.
Unless the cooking area is within sight and you can clearly see and know what is being used in your food, you shouldn't bother and you really shouldn't take their word for it should you ask because they unfortunately almost always are annoyed by it and will most likely yell you what they think you want to hear instead of the truth if they don't outright tell you to fuck off.
Inquiry in person is pointless, you're better off researching online prior if you must.

[Anonymous No.7959038]

>>7959012
Just because someone argues against veganism doesn't mean they're unhealthy. My diet is nearly vegan, I'm health conscious, and I advocate the philosophy behind killing animals -- not in its current form, because the meat industry is immoral -- but arguments against animal death are indefensible if you are at all rational.

[Anonymous No.7959051]

>>7959012
Yes they are, dipshit.
Have you ever been correct about anything in your life?

[Anonymous No.7959061]

>>7959051
Lmao so, you'll go to a fast-food place that buys and sells meat, get the vegan option, thinking that the money you gave them will only go toward them making more french-fries? You're giving money to meat.

[Anonymous No.7959066]

>>7959038
Sorry when did I say that? What I said was that most of the people here are fat unhealthy pigs and therefore are intimidated when they are confronted with a diet of higher standards of health.

If animals do not have to die for us to live happy healthy lives, they should not die. End of story. I don't understand why that is an irrational position to hold. Not to mention sparing their lives would spare the Earth as well as your health and a shitload of money and land. There is no sustainable way to kill any animal for food for an entire population.

>>7959051
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=are+mcdonalds+fries+vegetarian

Hopefully I'm never as stupid and incompetent as you are.

[Anonymous No.7959069]

For reference, I believe the movies that one poster is referencing are Earthlings, Cowspiracy, Forks Over Knives and Food Inc.
They each put emphasis on different aspects of it such as ethics, environmentalism, health, corporatistic corruption of the dispensation of information on these things as they pertain to big businesses, etcetera, although they may not all be on NF in general, but especially depending on your location.

[Anonymous No.7959078]

>>7958988
thanks man, and yeah if you have recommendations id be very interested in checking them out and >>7959012
first thread on this board lurk for a while on and off checked the catalog nothing veg thought id just make one, i see my mistake although there have been some good recomendations from a good few of the posters which i greatly appriciate

[Anonymous No.7959083]

>>7959066
> There is no sustainable way to kill any animal for food for an entire population.
I agree, and have agreed in my other posts. If you wanted to be correct, you would say 'there is no sustainable way to have industry,' which means bye-bye all-vegan diet, bye-bye every single vegan product.

There is, however, sustainable ways to kill animals. It's called running a farm and buying local meat.

[Anonymous No.7959091]

>>7959069
Sounds conspiratorial, I know. Don't release the tinfoil fedora memes until (if) after you've seen them.

[Anonymous No.7959107]

>>7959061
>lmao
I'm not a vegetarian my cunt-witted friend.
Just pointing out your error, summer fag, dip shit.

[Anonymous No.7959114]

>>7959061
i dont even go to fast food places senpai

[Anonymous No.7959115]

>>7959083
Local farms are sustainable short term, but do you understand how business works? If local farms were the only option, they'd be forced to industrialize due to high demand and we'd be in the exact same position we now are in where animal agriculture is destroying us. There is no perpetually sustainable way to farm animals for food.

Also, there is a sustainable way to have industry. We've been doing it just fine for ages. The problem is animal agriculture, not the pasta industry, not the fake vegan cheese industries, not the kale industry. The animal industry.

[Anonymous No.7959121]

>>7959107
Stop ignoring the post where I proved you wrong you retarded pussy.

[Anonymous No.7959131]

>>7959115
You are absolutely delusional if you think that industry in general doesn't have huge, drastic effect on the world.

You're correct again, local farming is only sustainable so long as the demand lets it remain local -- this is why the push shouldn't be for a vegan society, but for a society educated in the effects of meat on the body and on nature, which are worse than any other industry beside maybe fossil fuel and similar.

This would result in a society that kills animals at a sustainable level, because people would eat meat according to their need for it -- which is moderate and, especially in the case of red meat, sparing.

This is more healthy and more plausible than assuming a vegan society will ever happen.

[Anonymous No.7959133]

>>7959115
only becuase of the choice of consumers, if more people enjoyed vegan cheese the industry would have a high demand, and as our society had become acustmed to eating meat so has the meat industry become dominate, thats not to say its the eternal ground of all exsitance

[Anonymous No.7959161]

>>7959131
Name one industry that does as much direct harm to the Earth as animal agriculture. There isn't one. Vegan fake meat does not have anywhere close to the environmental impact of meat and dairy, if any significant, provable one at all. It's unbelievable that you're even implying it.

As for your second point, there is no need for meat. If local farms are the primary source of meat, they will inevitably grow into the dangerous factory farms we see today, or be absorbed into those that already exist. To imply that animals need to die for you or anyone is not only factually impossible to support, but also disgusting.

>>7959133
You're right, there would be high demand. Which would be good because I would no longer be overpaying for it.

Still doesn't mean it will destroy the planet as animal agriculture does, which was the original implication of someone I am assuming was not you.

[Anonymous No.7959164]

So, why haven't you converted to Jainism yet? Arguably the best diet in the world.

[Anonymous No.7959171]

>>7959164
I have actually but it's not a diet lad it's a religion lad

[Anonymous No.7959174]

>>7959171
Yes, but the dietary restriction stem from the religion, which is why I used the term convert.

[Anonymous No.7959182]

>>7959161
>Name one industry
I can name several.

-Power generation
-Agriculture in general (farming plants)
-Military
-Mining of rare earth metals for use in electronic devices, such as your precious cell phone.

[Anonymous No.7959183]

>>7959164
ive been taking the hindu medicene instead

[Anonymous No.7959196]

>>7958837
i agree with you, but as we are living an industrialized society where meat overproduction is at an all-time high being vegan is one of the biggest steps you can take so this trend doesn't continue

[Anonymous No.7959198]

>>7959182
You don't know anything about me to imply anything about my possessions, so avoid the ad hominem.

How does agriculture have anything to do with the copious amounts of fossil fuel emissions and death caused by animal agriculture? Are you mentally handicapped?

Also if you genuinely feel that way, how does it make you feel to know that 60% of crops go toward feeding animals that in turn destroy the environment, and that in eating meat one would still be supporting the wicked plant farming industry except even more than a vegan would be?

[Anonymous No.7959218]

>>7959024
just because veganism does rely on industrialization and the current form of industrialism is still very destructive doesn't mean that veganism is responsible for that destruction.

How is it impossible for a society to become vegan?
I don't deny that the current form of industrialization is still very destructive but it doesn't need to be as unnecessarily destructive as it is. If you are advocating some sort of anarcho-primitivist pre industrial society then that ship has already sailed. For better or for worse the only way out is through.
I don't deny that we are are part of the industrial society and keep it going, but the majority of the harm caused by industrialization comes from capitalism.

And if you are talking about ecology and emissions animal agriculture is responsible for a huge chunk of environmental destruction, deforestation, and greenhouse emissions.

[Anonymous No.7959225]

>>7959161
You're making points I already made in the post you're replying to and that I already agree with. Animal agriculture is worse than vegan agriculture, but any industry has harmful effects on animals and on the planet. Take a gander at this contentious subject: http://foodsystems.msu.edu/news/commentary_energy_use_ghg_and_blue_water_impacts

This isn't even taking into account ridiculous vegan products, which are highly processed and lay waste to as much resources in their processing as your typical bag of cheetos or similar, in which case vegan agriculture at its worst is far, far worse than meat intake at its best.

The point is to get rid of industry altogether. It is the only sound moral way to reduce our effect on animals and the environment. There is no possible vegan industrialized world. There is only local farming, and local animal husbandry -- the goal is to NOT let it get beyond those demands, for meat OR vegetables.

[Anonymous No.7959238]

>>7959198
>in eating meat one would still be supporting the wicked plant farming industry except even more than a vegan would be?
let me tell you something since you seem surprised at the level of retardation in this thread

the kind of tendies-eating manchildren you see around here, bashing the consumption of locally grown sustainable agriculture, unironically believe that meat comes from "the store"

they sincerely think that by eating more vegetables you're causing more vegetables to be planted, and that eating kale you need to think of the poor mice that got killed, because cows somehow automagically sprout and get slaughtered with no human intervention

you should see what this board thinks of antibiotic abuse in the meat industry, you will get shouted down by about fifty tards who think that there is no problem and if you just cook it well done there's no issue at all

[Anonymous No.7959244]

>>7959225
Don't ignore my most recent post. I've already responded to these arguments.

Most vegans don't eat the quote "ridiculously processed" food you're talking about because vegans are generally extremely health conscious. Look at the ingredients list on my vegan cheese versus your Cheetos and you'll find they don't even come close in terms of harmful chemical ingredients and processing and waste either.

[Anonymous No.7959247]

>>7959218
>You don't know anything about me to imply anything about my possessions, so avoid the ad hominem.
You're on the internet, and you have the first-world privelege to have access to only vegan options, out of thousands of your first-world options. You think veganism is actually plausible in natural societies where people live off the earth sans industry? Get real.
>How does agriculture have anything to do with the copious amounts of fossil fuel emissions and death caused by animal agriculture? Are you mentally handicapped?
Stop thinking so direct. Society is a fine lattice of indirect connections. Industry is the fountainhead where every web is spun, and everything leads back to it, every part of it is culpable for relying on other parts of the web. Start thinking laterally.
>Also if you genuinely feel that way, how does it make you feel to know that 60% of crops go toward feeding animals that in turn destroy the environment, and that in eating meat one would still be supporting the wicked plant farming industry except even more than a vegan would be?
You're misconstruing my opinions. I don't approve of any industry.
>>7959198
>For better or for worse the only way out is through.
Explain how we go through without killing animals.
>I don't deny that we are are part of the industrial society and keep it going, but the majority of the harm caused by industrialization comes from capitalism.
And tofurkey isn't a part of capitalism?

[Anonymous No.7959266]

New rule: You must preface every political argument with a delicious vegetarian recipe.

[Anonymous No.7959279]

>>7959244
>harmful chemical ingredients and processing and waste either.
Healthier, most likely, but do you not realize how much processing and waste is attached to vegan products, even all-natural, healthy ones? Do you think the factories these are made in have no byproducts, do you think the plastic and boxes are always recycled? Do you realize recycling plants have their own harmful consequences?
>>7959238
Are you even reading my posts? I don't approve of the meat industry.

[Anonymous No.7959283]

>>7959266
>implying you can make rules

[Anonymous No.7959292]

>>7959266
good idea,
http://www.veganrecipeclub.org.uk/recipes/almost-instant-mexican-wraps this looks nice what do you reckon? anything you'd improve

[Anonymous No.7959293]

>>7959247
>You're on the internet, and you have the first-world privelege to have access to only vegan options, out of thousands of your first-world options. You think veganism is actually plausible in natural societies where people live off the earth sans industry? Get real.
Actually it is. Here we go again with you having not done any research at all. The poorest countries on the earth - - guess what? They're vegan. Beans, rice, legumes are all cheaper than meat. Meat is a luxury and a privilege that most poor parts of the world do not have access to.

Look at poor, small Asian communities. They eat rice and plants exclusively. They also have the highest life expectancies and quality of life in terms of health even though they're poor.

What do you know? You're an idiot. Because how dare I imply that we all eat sustainable plants instead of slaughtering trillions of animals annually and wasting money, time, and land that we could grow 100x as many plants on.

>Stop thinking so direct. Society is a fine lattice of indirect connections.
This is true. This is exactly why I make the connection that meat eaters contribute more to so-called "plant suffering" than vegans. Because not only do they eat plants, but they also eat animals that eat 10x as many plants as them, thus contributing to two "harmful" industries instead of my one. Checkmate.
>You're misconstruing my opinions. I don't approve of any industry.
Then don't have any kids and kill yourself, because with the amount of people on this planet industry is inevitable and it's better if radical environmentalist tards who have no clue what they're talking about like you were shot off into space.

>>7959238
It's absurd to me to know that there are people who try to make me feel guilty eating more plants because small animals are still being killed in the process of farming said plants. Because doing as little environmental and animal harm possible is somehow bad.

>>7959279
I buy fresh unwrapped plants.

Next.

[Anonymous No.7959336]

>>7959244
>The poorest countries on the earth - - guess what? They're vegan.
Care to cite this? I have a hard time believing that they don't subsist off fish or make use of animals in some other way.
>Look at poor, small Asian communities. They eat rice and plants exclusively. They also have the highest life expectancies and quality of life in terms of health
Again, fish. Again, cite.
>What do you know? You're an idiot.
Am I calling you names?
>Because how dare I imply that we all eat sustainable plants instead of slaughtering trillions of animals annually and wasting money, time, and land...
I am advocating for killing less animals too. The difference is I'm not calling for no killing at all, just less, more humane killing. If you had cared to read my link, you'd see vegetables aren't inherently sustainable.
> "plant suffering" [snipped] Checkmate.
I never brought up plant suffering, nor would I ever.
>Then don't have any kids and kill yourself, because with the amount of people on this planet industry is inevitable and it's better if radical environmentalist tards who have no clue what they're talking about like you were shot off into space.
If you actually believe that the rampant industry and greed we currently suffer inside is just a natural outcome of being alive, you've fallen victim. And look at you, once again, falling to violence. What part of you is being impelled to anger, and why? I think you know.
>>7959238
>...people who try to make me feel guilty eating more plants because small animals are still being killed in the process of farming said plants. Because doing as little environmental and animal harm possible is somehow bad.
I'm for exactly the same thing, and I'm not trying to make you feel bad.
>I buy fresh unwrapped plants.
Where? Giving money to a grocery store that also sells meat makes your purchase void.

[Anonymous No.7959368]

>>7959336
>Care to cite this?
>Again, cite.
Forks Over Knives
Also I don't know why you're randomly bringing fish into the equation? Aquaculture is even worse.

The problem is that you are calling for death at all when it will still harm your body and cost you way more money than it should. Also, there is no humane way to slaughter a living being. Don't even go there. If you don't have to kill, simply don't. I don't get why that's so hard for so many of us.

I never said you were trying to make me feel bad. That post wasn't even in response to you.

Farmers markets, small natural foods chains, and grocery stores. And you're wrong about my purchase being void. I'd understand if I was buying from McDonald's or Burger King, but buying from a grocery store alone is not supporting agriculture. It's showing them that my demand is for plants and that I'm only willing to give my money to those companies involved in farming plants. If everyone did this then meat would be left on the shelves to rot, giving less incentive for any seller to have meat in their possession. In paying Whole Foods for kale, I'm not supporting their fresh beef. It's sad you know so little about how capitalism works here, or maybe you're not American which I'm hoping for your sake.

[Anonymous No.7959381]

>>7958827
No problem bro.

[Anonymous No.7959389]

>>7958691
>vegatarian
You need to learn how to spell it first shitboy

[Anonymous No.7959401]

>>7959368
Does that film show these poor societies that don't kill animals at all ever?

And, do you look to persuasion that hits the mark you want it to, then just avoid researching beyond that? Here's a criticism of Forks over Knives: "Nutrition blogger Denise Minger criticized the research presented in the Forks over Knives movie for using the lowest levels of scientific evidence for conclusions and decision making (i.e. animal studies, cohort studies and case control studies rather than randomized controlled trials or systematic reviews) and for picking and choosing only those data sets that support the views presented in the movie while disregarding others."

I'm bringing up fish because it's a living creature, and aquaculture is bad because of, once more, industry and needlessly increased demand.

I think maybe you don't want to accept the fact that life is built upon death. I understand, and truly sympathize with this tendency of denial. But it's the simple truth. Ignoring all of this animal death, we survive on the death of organisms. We crush insects with moderate steps. Your country, likely, is at current war, or is benefiting off past war.

There are humane ways to kill animals, and in my opinion the transmutation of the life of an animal into a human benefit. Otherwise it's left in nature, which is chaotic, uncontrolled, and will lead to the animal's death anyway. The false dichotomy you've made between husbandry and safety is false. The real dichotomy is between control and chaos.

The money you give to kale has result only one kale, because other people are buying the meat, and they always will be. You are, again, delusional if you think people will ever be fully vegan in any circumstance, ever, be it past or future. But do go on failing to respond to my line of inquiries that are inconvenient for you, as you have so don.

[Anonymous No.7959415]

>>7958691
It's pretty darned easy if you sub cheese, tofu, legumes, mushrooms, gluten, grains, and eggs for meat at every available opportunity but your body will suffer. Find recipes you can rely on which make you feel full and well after you eat them, not bloated and tired. It's ALL ABOUT the recipes. Amass them.

[Anonymous No.7959433]

>>7959401
You can't dismiss a movie you have not seen based on a criticism presented in its Wikipedia article.

And I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. No one ever needs to lose their lives for you or I to live our own. I've been living without death for a very long time and I've never been happier. To imply that accidentally and unwittingly stepping on insects is somehow the same as contributing to the pain and suffering of mammals is absurd and illogical.

Wild animals ALWAYS live longer in nature than in human containment. This is a fact. The animals in nature die the way they were meant to die, not by having a knife shoved through their throats by someone who does not need to do these things to live. A lion kills a gazelle because the lion needs to kill that gazelle or he will starve to death. Humans kill cows because humans are selfish. One of these acts is justifiable by the food chain. The other is not. Humans have no symbiotic relationship with farmed animals in nature. To imply we need to somehow treat them humanely then kill them implies we owe them something - - we don't. Just as they don't owe us their bodies. It's just pure human arrogance to think that we need to take them out of nature harming them and us because they will die in nature anyway. How can you even begin to justify such a stupid school of thought?

Correct, many selfish or ignorant people will continue to buy meat. But you could at least have enough dignity to admit that you were wrong to say I'm supporting meat by going to the grocery store. The point is to show that we want plants and not flesh. And that is what we show, and what growing numbers of people are showing every day. You'd be surprised what am impact the decreasing sales of meat and dairy are having on these industries.

Also, I responded to everything in your previous post. What have I ignored exactly? I'll gladly un-ignore it in my next post.

[Anonymous No.7959450]

>>7959401
Also, even if your mind is set on all of this unadulterated nonsense you're speaking, as a person who hates industry there is no justification for not being vegan and putting forth the effort toward saving the planet. You're just presenting excuses so you can sleep at night knowing you contribute to something you believe to be wrong.

[Anonymous No.7959491]

>>7959433
Your consumer choices do nothing. What's more meaningful, the relationship a human has to its farm cow, its family cow it has known its entire life, or the piece of meat you don't buy at the grocery store that's dead and there already? What's more meaningful, the sacrifice a person must make when slaughtering the animal they've raised, in similar sacrifice to the men that must die for a country not to fall in war, or the invisible animals you're saving?

Animals don't die as they were 'meant to' in the wild, because evolution has no intention. There is no 'meant to' without human intervention.

You're ignoring, by the way, again, the fact that your consumer choice is within a vast network of modern industry that you do, in fact, parlay with and do, in fact, help to slaughter and kill things with the taxes you pay. It is not direct. But blood is still on your hands, it drips along the matrix you're connected to, it runs into you.

The point you ignored is related to this point. How do we 'get through' current industry, get beyond it, and have a vegan society that is sustainable and that causes no death?

>>7959450
What do you know about my life? Aren't you doing the same thing?

[Anonymous No.7959523]

>>7959401
>There are humane ways to kill animals
>killing humane

[Anonymous No.7959581]

>>7959491
I'm going to respond briefly because I'm growing bored of this directionless debate.

>Your consumer choices do nothing.
Supply and demand. Yes they do. Again, read the Wikipedia page for capitalism.

Evolution does have intention--that's why it exists. If evolution is not meant to maximize survival potential then we have been wrong all along. I can't argue anymore with you here because you quite obviously don't fully comprehend the food chain's role in nature, which is puzzling to say the least.

>blood is still on your hands.
Correct. Because I still buy plastic and use other products that use small amounts of animal products. The problem with this "all or nothing" mentality is that is implies that veganism is meant to eliminate all harm to all beings. It isn't. It is simply a stepping stone to that. But animals are not killed for the cement and chewing gum and gelatin you'll find their body parts in, they're killed for food and the remainder of their bodies are shipped off to be used in other products to minimize waste. Eliminating the source of the problem is eliminating the problem itself. How is this so confusing to you? If everyone was vegan we would not be having this conversation.

>How do we 'get through' current industry, get beyond it, and have a vegan society that is sustainable and causes no death?
Gradually, and contently.

And all I know about you is that you said you hate industry. So, stop supporting the most harmful industry instead of sitting here trying to justify your hypocrisy to me.

[Anonymous No.7959617]

>>7959581
Evolution is about maximizing survival, yes, but it doesn't do this with intent. It just happens. You describing it like an aware process is just the same projection that occurs when you feel humane and visualize the cows you saved, when you visualize the absolute fantasy that your only contribution to slaughter is plastic bags.

So, you have no idea what the eventual outcome of the position you advocate for looks like? Whereas I do, and have described it? I'm glad you're losing steam so that you can avoid coming to terms with the fact that your argument has no merit and that all of its singular conclusions lead, when pluralized, to nowhere real.

[Anonymous No.7959628]

>>7959581
Also, how many times do I have to say I'm against the meat industry? This conversation was never about me supporting the meat industry. All I can do is tell you to re-read my posts and maybe think outside of your black/white non-reality.

[Anonymous No.7959643]

>>7959617
You ignored half of my post. What is wrong with you? This is why this argument has gone no where. You are so arrogant that you can't even see the cognitive dissonance in your deluded mindset that it's okay for you to support the industries you condemn so long as you spout nonsense on a cooking imageboard to people who don't value your position or opinion at all.

I never said anything about plastic bags, or plastic being my only contribution. When people lose arguments they tend to put words in their opponents mouth because it is more convenient for them than to refute their actual stance.

The outcome of the world being vegan is a happier and healthier plant earth. I have facts and statistics to support this position. You have slippery slope fallacies and anecdotes.

>>7959628
I never said you support meat as an industry. I'm saying you don't, which is exactly why you should wise up and find a solution rather than argue with someone who agrees with you and insist they are contributing to it when they aren't.

[Anonymous No.7959680]

>>7959643
>You ignored half of my post. What is wrong with you? This is why this argument has gone no where. You are so arrogant that you can't even see the cognitive dissonance in your deluded mindset that it's okay for you ... to ... spout nonsense on a cooking imageboard to people who don't value your position or opinion at all.

Funny, sounds a lot like yourself.

>I never said anything about plastic bags, or plastic being my only contribution.
Sorry, it was plastic. Here: >>7959581 you paint it as your only contribution to the reality I described, which I'm sure took you a good ten seconds of zero penetration.

>When people lose arguments they tend to put words in their opponents mouth because it is more convenient for them than to refute their actual stance.

Right, and I pointed out instances where you did this multiple times. Here's where you mentioned plastic bags:

>The outcome of the world being vegan is a happier and healthier plant earth. I have facts and statistics to support this position. You have slippery slope fallacies and anecdotes.

Do you? Can you show me the scientific model that shows a perfectly sustainable vegan world necessitated by no animal death?

>I never said you support meat as an industry. I'm saying you don't, which is exactly why you should wise up and find a solution rather than argue with someone who agrees with you and insist they are contributing to it when they aren't.

I've given you my solution, and it would involve you giving up your current, ridiculous, nonsensical beliefs and practices which do in fact help current industry.

[Anonymous No.7959751]

>>7959680
>I still buy plastic and use other products that use small amounts of animal products
>I still buy plastic and use other products
>plastic
>and
>other
>products

http://thehill.com/regulation/237767-vegan-diet-best-for-planet-federal-report-says

I'll bite. How is my buying fruits contributing to meat and dairy industries.

[Anonymous No.7959785]

>>7959751
Did you read that article?

>“If people took the time to understand, this is not a meat-free diet and this is not vegan approach, they’d realize this is a healthy dietary pattern with three models that offers consumers a lot of choice,” she said.

Furthermore, my question I posed to you, which you have been unable to answer three times, is not even the subject of the article. In fact:

>The department would not answer questions about whether the topic of sustainability was within the committee’s purview or whether the agency plans to factor sustainability into the final guidelines.

I've already explained every single point of my view. There's no point in replying, you would better benefit from going back over my posts and actually considering them, actually reading them.

If you would like to respond, please do so if you can paint for me the sustainable vegan model of society that has taken industry and progressed it past the point of killing animals, and how it would do so.

[Anonymous No.7959799]

>>7959785
That article id all about the positive impacts of eating as little animal products as possible and shows evidence of a vegan diet being the most sustainable. It is unbiased, which is why there are conflicting opinions being presented.

Your only argument is that "well, you're still contributing" and I've already proven that wrong. I'm only contributing if I directly pay for the product that invites the byproducts to exist. In buying plastic and others, I'm not supporting any such animal agriculture industry. You have failed repeatedly to refute this line of logic.

I've already given you a source, I'm not interested in spoonfeeding you again. The two sources I've cited in this conversation are more than you could dream of finding to support your delusion.

[Anonymous No.7959810]

>>7959799
Your two sources are a cherry-picking documentary that relies on fear tactics, and an article discussing a lobby attesting, without giving proof, to the fact that 'two sustainability experts' told them the vegan diet was most sustainable, according to their metrics. 'Most sustainable' here meaning 'still tethered to industry, still ruinous, just the lesser evil.'

Again, that's not my only argument. I've given you multiple explanations, but you still won't see my point. And you still won't answer my simple question. Is it because your lack of an answer shows how illogical, and how without ultimate goal your stance is? How counter-reality?

You're just going to distract from your lack of an answer and link something refutable.

[Anonymous No.7959811]

>>7959799
his whole agument is "you buy a pair of shoes from bills shoe shop then bill will use that money to buy himself a steak there for you are killing the aniimal bill is eating by allowing him the funds to do it" lol

[Anonymous No.7959819]

>>7959811
That's not wrong though. It's the glass window fallacy but in reverse so it's an unfallacy

[Anonymous No.7959821]

>>7959810
What do you want me to say? I answered your question and you don't believe my answer. That's your choice. I'm not going to try again.

You still won't answer my simple question of how my lifestyle contributes at all to the meat and dairy industries and quite frankly I'm not even taking you seriously anymore lol

[Anonymous No.7959837]

>>7959819
not when the person who you give the money to has the free will to choose, making them responsble not the person giving them the money

[Anonymous No.7959839]

>>7959819
>I lend money to Bill
>Bill uses that money to buy a knife
>Bill kills Stacy with said knife
>I killed Stacy by your logic

[Anonymous No.7959842]

>>7959821
I don't think you're grasping the scenario I'm setting up. And I don't think you want to, at that. If you can't unbridle yourself from your ideologies, there's no point in going any further. I've already done my part in setting up the scenario at length, and I'm not about to repeat myself. If you actually care to think yourself out of your political choice, all the factors are there for you.

[Anonymous No.7959851]

>>7959819
By the way, neither of these were what I was arguing, nor the scenario I set up.

[Anonymous No.7959868]

>>7959842
Still haven't told me how I'm contributing. Is it actually this hard to prove? If so, why bother arguing it?

[Anonymous No.7959869]

>>7959839
>>7959819
sir, you're under arrest for contributing to the murder of stacy, further more i arrest myself an officer of the law as i two have paid contribution to the society in which the knife was manufacture there by making me part responsable for this murder i hear by arrest all citizens of the country on the assisted murder by sociatle asosiation of the man commiting the murder

[Anonymous No.7959880]

>>7959869
lmao

[Anonymous No.7959886]

>>7959869
False comparison

[Anonymous No.7959895]

>>7959886
>By not eating animal products but going to grocery stores you are supporting animal agriculture
>By not actually physically killing Stacy but giving money to the guy who did you are killing Stacy

[Anonymous No.7959906]

>>7959886
looks like you got to eat your words m9

[Anonymous No.7959923]

>>7959895
He's not packaging Stacy, putting her on the shelves, and using her as the face of other aspects of his business.

[Anonymous No.7959935]

>>7959839
>I killed stacy by your logic
Strawman as fuck. You unwittingly contributed to her death. You're not at fault.

[Anonymous No.7959941]

>>7959895
Would you support a business that murdered bunnies if it also supplied your favorite carrots? The two go hand in hand. If you give them money they use the money to kill bunnies and farm carrots.

>>7959906
Haha le ebin reaction frog xD

>>>/v/

[Anonymous No.7959957]

>>7959935
Lol did you read your own post? You responded to that guy saying "That's not wrong though" therefore agreeing with what he and I presented.

[Anonymous No.7959967]

>>7959957
>? You responded to that guy saying "That's not wrong though" therefore agreeing with what he and I presented
You confused yourself