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/ck/ - Food & Cooking

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6942753 No.6942753 [Reply] [Original]

Vegetarians who abstain from meat on a moral ground: What would you do if we discovered plants have feelings?

>> No.6942758

>>6942753
there's also the issue of farmland destroying wild habitats

>> No.6942761

>>6942758
And wildlife which live in the fields which get crushed and killed when food is harvested.

>> No.6942762

>>6942758
there's also the issue of green house gas emissions melting the polar ice caps

>> No.6942766

>>6942762
um, green house gasses aren't literally produced by greenhouses bruh, they're called that cause of their effect

>> No.6942767

>>6942758
there's also the issue of dolphins being hunted in Japan because of cultural traditions

>> No.6942768

>>6942761
Some animals get killed, might as well kill even more of them
>your actual argument
Not vegetarian or vegan, just pointing out that your line of reasoning is a bit tarded

>> No.6942770

>>6942758
there's also the issue of when it's really hot outside and you get into your car but the seat belt buckle burns the hell out of your hand

>> No.6942775

Subjugation of animals. Pretty sure plants do have feelings but its an easier life to take away.

Plus the ecological aspects mentioned. It takes a field of corn or grain to make feed for one cow which then needs space as well and by the end you've used a whole lot of resources(water, feed, space) and made a whole lot of waste.

Still eat meat but that includes insects which are much more efficient and effective as protein. Red meat like cow is a few times a week instead of every day and fish while being terrible wild or even worse farmed I still have about once or twice a week or two.

>> No.6942776

>>6942768
but that's not the reasoning bruh, it's more about the fact that vegetarianism has no moral superiority because it's just as deadly to animals as carnism, it's just that that the effect of vegetarianism is less prominent

>> No.6942777

>>6942753

I just do it for the reduced inflammation.

>> No.6942778

>>6942770
There's also the issue of when I'm too lazy to make a vegetable dish, so I just sear a steak instead.

>> No.6942780

>>6942778
how can you bee too lazy to make corn on the cob? there's just no excuse for that man, not when it's so easy and so good

>> No.6942782

>>6942770
This happens to me all the time. Fucking vegetarians.

>> No.6942785

>>6942780
A meal consisting entirely of corn would not be very satisfying.

>> No.6942791

>>6942785
I meant in addition to your steak

>> No.6942794

>>6942753
The moral ground argument is a bit bullshit anyway. If you're not a vegetarian for health reasons then you're just jerking yourself off to the thought of being ethically superior to others on false pretense. You'll notice most carnivores don't bat an eye at eating livestock, but would grimace at the thought of eating a cute puppy or kitten. That's because we have created a disconnect where some animals are food and others are pets. The same line of reasoning can be extended to plants. The only reason people don't care about plant lives is because of this made-up disconnect when in reality all lives matter.

>> No.6942795

>>6942768
>implying I was arguing that point, or anything at all

Just pointing out a fact.

>> No.6942796

>>6942780
I like how the easiest thing you can come up with is corn on the cob, and not like frozen vegetables or something.

>> No.6942799

idk if it's a moral reason or just me being a giant pussy

but i generally avoid meat because eating meat makes me feel bad for the animal

that's about it

>> No.6942802

>>6942799
I don't understand that. I eat chicken nuggies every day because I don't empathize with the chicken, just like vegetarians don't empathize with the plants they slaughter and eat.

>> No.6942824

i mean when you take a limb off a tree it has to have some kind of measurable pain right?

i dont understand it but it still has to be there. trees and plants and shit are probably way smarter than humans tbh. they're just chilling while we're stressing out killing each other and ourselves.

>> No.6942831

>>6942753
I do believe plants have feelings and stuff, I just believe most plants we eat are bred for consumption like dogs or cattle or what have you.

>> No.6942841

>>6942824
Look up the jasmonate pathway, how it works, and what plants communicate and do with it.
Is pretty neat.

>> No.6942848

>>6942824
False. There's no evidence that suggest plants have feelings. They don't even have a nervous system to feel pain with. All plants do is react to external stimuli.

>> No.6942852

>>6942848
>no nervous system
>reacts to stimuli
that doesn't add up anon, maybe it's not the same thing as animals have but there's something there

>> No.6942891

>>6942852
Even if they did feel pain in some way distinct from how animals do would anyone care? I'm pretty sure bugs feel some sort of pain too as they'll flee when in danger, but no one's going to find killing a bug morally objectionable.

>> No.6943085

>>6942852
See
>>6942841

>> No.6943093

Filter feed

>> No.6943406

>>6942794
This. Yea I think plants probably do feel something. Jellyfish dont have brains but i'm sure they can feel pain or something like it. "Pain" is necessary for a living organism to survive. The creature, whatever it may be, needs some kind of system so it knows where to heal itself or that it's in danger. Lots of plants have been documented communicating with one another about surrounding or potential danger and some will even give up resources for a nearby sick plant. If you ever sit down to study how a plant works it's amazing tbh. We still dont even fully understand how photosynthesis yet.

We just empathize with animals more because we're both made of meat.

>> No.6943416

>>6942753
vegan here: what if we discovered animals have feelings?

>> No.6943424

>>6943416
It's a good thing they don't, otherwise I'd have to object to eating them on moral grounds.

>> No.6943431

>>6942794
you don't believe that you're above animals? you should think that. the idea for me as a vegan is only to reduce suffering, i don't deny that we were built evolutionary to eat meat as others would argue. i just want to say that we are capable of great things as a species and are able (if we choose) to be above any unnecessary suffering. As a human being i think that we should be prideful in being above violence. In the future they will look back and think how barbaric it must have been that we all believe that we must steal from each other in the form of "taxes" and how we decide to treat all of our neighbors on this tiny spec of dust we all float on.

>> No.6943474

>>6943416
Doesn't matter, they have a lower moral status than humans so they're free game.

>> No.6943517

>>6943474
okay but by that extension of logic you must believe that some highly developed aliens would have the same right over you, its a very cruel position to take. I feel that we should take pride in being above all of this

>> No.6943534

>>6942780
>corn
Corn has essentially no nutritional value though.
Unless you want that guy to grind it into flour and bake with it, but that sounds a whole lot harder than just searing a steak.

>> No.6943544

Didn't science already prove that plants feel pain?

>> No.6943546

>>6943517
I didn't explain why humans have higher moral status. Your assumption that I believe it's based on intelligence or access to technology is a straw man

>> No.6943562

>>6943546
feel free

>> No.6943572

>>6943562
no

>> No.6943615
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6943615

I don't know if it counts as a "moral" ground, but eating animals just makes me sad and uncomfortable. I don't consider it much of my business what anyone else does.

I'd be super bummed if it turns out that plants have feelings, but plants aren't as cute as animals, so I guess I'd power through.

I guess there's no reasoning or logic to my vegetarianism. It's all about my feefees.

>> No.6943622

>>6943615
I'd suck your clit so hard that you'd forget about your fucking feelings for Babe because smoked pork belly is the greatest thing ever devised.

>> No.6943634
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6943634

>>6942753
Vegetarians are pretty stupid by definition, they're not gonna be discovering anything.

>> No.6943636

>>6943615
What about insects? Don't you realize that tons of insects are killed when vegetables and fruits are harvested? How about those poor bacteria that die everytime you take a dump? You heartless fuck!

>> No.6943650

>>6943544
No. That's made up pseudo-science.

>> No.6943757

>>6943636
the goal is to reduce suffering, don't be silly.

>> No.6943764

>>6943622
>Pork belly

Fucking Amen.

>> No.6943905
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6943905

>>6943636
I don't know how to exist without causing suffering. It keeps me up at night.

>> No.6943934
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6943934

>eating veggies because it's morally right
>not eating veggies because it's just healthier

>> No.6943947

>>6943757
A cow suffers? They're almost as stupid as a hollywood slut, where's the suffering? You need a reality check you crystal worshipping hippy freak from bizarroworld. How about the suffering of people that have to deal with you types on a day to day basis? A fuckin cauliflower is more important to you.

>> No.6943953
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6943953

>>6942766

>> No.6943973

>>6943947
i care about people more but again i will say for the 5th time- the goal is to reduce suffering. yes cows suffer

>> No.6943979

>>6943973
How do you know that and a cauliflower doesn't, do you commune with them?

>> No.6943986

>>6943973
Who are you to say that a cauliflower or a bacteria doesn't suffer? We all suffer, join the real world.

>> No.6943989

>>6943979
please don't be silly. yes people suffer. the goal once again is to reduce suffering

>> No.6943991

>>6943989 here, inteneded to link
>>6943979
>>6943986

>> No.6943993

>>6943973
You're a hypocrite, you're making levels based on your anthropomorphization. A bacteria suffers too or it wouldn't try to evolve to be something else and survive to create more.

>> No.6944000

>>6943993
sure. the goal i have is to reduce suffering, whats wrong with that?

>> No.6944007

>>6944000
Nothing is wrong with that, but you came across as someone that puts different levels on life. Death is death and is natural, it's part of life.

>> No.6944009

>>6944000
Cows don't really suffer, they don't know enough to suffer. That's you anthropomorphizing a cow.

>> No.6944011

>>6944000
When a cow is eating stuff do you really think that it cares about any insects that might get in the way?

>> No.6944039

>>6944011
no of course not but i am smarter and more aware then a cow
>>6944009
i don't think i understand. do you believe dogs or cats are able to suffer? what is the difference?
>>6944007
i take pride in taking the concise choice as a human being to reduce suffering, whereas before we didn't have much choice, today we do.

Also guys please don't be silly, i know i can't cure suffering for every living thing on the planet. The goal is to be reasonable in reducing suffering. Again i ask what is wrong with this?

>> No.6944049

>>6944039
conscious choice

>> No.6944057

>>6944000
I respect your goal, to reduce and eventually end suffering would be universally a good thing.

I think the problem most people have with moral vegs is that they sit behind idea of protesting animal cruelty and suffering, yet they're not actively working to achieve that goal.

>> No.6944061

>>6944039
You think that they suffer because they're cute looking to you. But how do you in fact know that they suffer?

Maybe it's magic?

Pilot - Magic (1975 - HD)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzlK0OGpIRs

>> No.6944070

>>6944049
Riight so a conscious choice of hippy weirdos that anthropomorphize animals?

>> No.6944074

>>6944039
Have you considered that you've been taking Disney movies about animals too seriously?

>> No.6944080

>>6944057
It's like trying to call yourself a humanitarian on the grounds that you think homelessness is sad and you always give your spare change to street bums.

>> No.6944107

>>6944070
>>6944074
you don't believe that animals have emotions? i found this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_in_animals
>>6944057
everyone votes with their money. if people just didn't buy animal products things would be different. i don't go out and do anything besides not supporting that stuff
>>6944074
there is nothing wrong with caring about the suffering of animals, i know how gay it sounds though
>>6944080
it doesn't matter what you think, only actions matter. believing in whatever he wants, your hypothetical is still giving change to street bums for better or worse. you can follow that logic can't you?

>> No.6944114

>>6944107
niggerpedia, great source, what's next you anthropomorphize niggers?

>> No.6944118

>>6944107
There's nothing wrong with caring but you're assuming that animals can suffer so you're putting human emotions on cute looking animals which don't a fuck about you.

>> No.6944124

>>6944114
wikipedia has links to its sources at the bottom
>>6944118
yes i believe that animals have emotions

>> No.6944132
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6944132

>>6944124
YOU WANT TO BELIEVE
Good for you.

>> No.6944136

>>6942775
Your reply doesn't mean anything until you say the size the field is that feeds the cow and how much space they take up in life and how much water they destroy in their lifespan.

>> No.6944151

>>6944124
Feeling pain isn't the same as having emotions which is a higher brain function reserved for us humans.

There are things which are necessary though for instance some nasty shit I saw when I was a kid on NYC public access channels in Manhattan, DoD tests of flame on pigs, but the ultimate goal was to create suits for ourselves to help survive crashes and flame blowouts in airplanes.

The lesser of two weavels?

>> No.6944161
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6944161

>>6944132
thanks. i believe that i'm a higher being than other animals and i take pride in that. I like to think that i show as much mercy as i can (while being reasonable, don't be silly guys)
>>6944151
i believe in reducing suffering, if that means animal testing or medical research then thats fine by me

>> No.6944180

>>6944161
We're not all that different than animals, we're imprinted and follow the food source, some of us do however have emotions and a long memory.

>> No.6944191

>>6942758
what do you think cows eat

>> No.6944218

>>6942794
>The same line of reasoning can be extended to plants.
No, because plants don't have brains with which to feel pain. The logic here isn't just that it's alive. It's about sentience.

>> No.6944230

>>6943993
evolution is just something that happens by chance over many generations. bacteria don't have brains.

>> No.6944235

>>6944161
I'm the same. Vegetarian on ethical grounds and not only support animal testing but have done testing on porcine aortic tissue myself. I'd also eat any animal if it was down to one of us surviving. But apart from that I don't really see the point of raising something to be killed just so I can eat it. Seems wasteful and heartless. And while animal welfare is way less important than human welfare incontinence see why we can't strive towards both simultaneously with more efforts going towards the latter.

>> No.6944243

>>6944235
>incontinence
*I can't

>> No.6944249

Omnivore who doesn't eat pork here.

Pigs are too smart for me to feel comfortable eating.

I don't mind eating poultry, beef, and fish though.

Cows are fairly dumb, pigs have intelligence on par with dogs.

>> No.6944259

>>6944249
I'd hate to break the news about cows to you anon so I suggest you read up on it yourself.

>> No.6944262
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6944262

>>6944235
>>6944243

>> No.6944265

>>6944259
I don't care about cows, they're smarter than say a fish but they're still stupid compared to a pig.

They're not smart enough for my to feel bad about.

>> No.6944276
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6944276

>>6944262
yes animals eat other animals but i like to believe that i'm better than them and show mercy. my goal is to reduce suffering
>>6944249
other animals suffer too
>>6944265
please care about cows

>> No.6944282
File: 61 KB, 500x640, wut_the_fuck-1418103538736.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6944282

>>6944243

>> No.6944285

>>6944262
>>6944276
>yes animals eat other animals but i like to believe that i'm better than them and show mercy. my goal is to reduce suffering

I was laughing at your incontinence. I'm not interested in the discussion.

>> No.6944290

>>6944285
>incontinence
So anon is losing bladder control at that?
I can see that since this thread is pretty funny.

>> No.6944297

THE BEE GEES (COLLECTION) HD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrWpbK020YU

>> No.6944302

>>6943615

Dat bait. Veganism/vegetariansim is very logical, even if you don't feel yours is. Even if plants did have feelings, you are hurting them more when eating meat because cows and pigs eat more plants than humans. Plus, humans can't live without vegetables. We can live without meat.

>> No.6944309
File: 3.37 MB, 1622x936, elephants.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6944309

>>6944285
>>6944290
oh that wasn't me but please stay and chat, any questions for a vegan?

>> No.6944310

>>6944302
You can because you're a germanfag and live life to make excuses for islamics.

>> No.6944314

>>6944309
No questions if you're doing it because you think it's healthy for you personally and don't want to push it on others like an agenda. If it's because you don't want to harm the poor animals I'll nail you in debate after a couple beers.

>> No.6944328

>>6944249

Cows have best friends.
Also, it's not really about how intelligent an animal is. It's more about whether has the capacity to feel suffering and pleasure, which all animals do. Would you feel the same way about a person with a mental disorder that made them less intelligent than others? They are still an earthling, along with all animals.

>> No.6944335
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6944335

>>6944314
i don't want to harm the poor animals, fight me! fuck i wish i had some beers... my roommate has some vodka up in the freezer though but doesn't like me to use the OJ and i'm a pussy can't drink vodka straight. Also there were others here earlier that i don't agree with and i don't want to be associated with those people. For reference i'm
>>6943416
>>6943517
>>6943562
>>6943757
>>6943973
>>6943989
>>6943991
>>6944000
>>6944039
>>6944107
>>6944124
>>6944161
>>6944276
>>6944309

>> No.6944346

>>6942891
>I'm pretty sure bugs feel some sort of pain too as they'll flee when in danger, but no one's going to find killing a bug morally objectionable.
Most recent scientific tests for which animals "feel pain" would not be passed by most insects species. Evolutionary pressure tended to disfavor the type of pain receptors and centralized nervous system that are common in mammals.

In any case, people's moral objections are culturally relative. In the US a lot of people find killing various insects morally objectionable. Moreso for those that are both threatened as a species and aesthetically pleasing or useful (e.g. colorful butterflies, and North American honey bees), and especially when it's a bunch of insects killed (e.g. spraying pesticide on a flowering tree, which can wipe out multiple beehives in a couple mile radius). Others object to running indiscriminant "bug zappers" outdoors (devices that lure mosquitoes in particular are less objectionable; the ones that lure all flying insects with just a light might kill 1% biting mosquitos and 99% other insects).

There are also people who find "torturing" insects, like pulling the wings off a fly, morally objectionable, or at least depraved behavior, even when they may be okay with killing it.

>> No.6944354
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6944354

>>6944328
Only a person with a mental disorder puts human emotions on animals without specific proof that those emotions exist, you might want to check yourself into a psych ward.

>> No.6944363

>>6944354
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_in_animals

>> No.6944369

>>6944363
Again, niggerpedia's not a source. This discussion has become very circular.

>> No.6944372

>>6944363
Niggerpedia is sure proof. Mind citing that in a medical journal like JAMA?
We'll see how far that goes.

>> No.6944384

>>6944369
references are at the bottom of the page- again.

>> No.6944386

>>6944369
>>6944372
It's like you didn't take the time to look at any of the seventy-one references at the bottom of the page.

>> No.6944387

>>6944384
You're the one making the assertion, provide the links here, don't expect me to visit niggerpedia because you're making an assertion, I won't do it. The onus is on you to prove your point.

>> No.6944392

>>6944328
>Would you feel the same way about a person with a mental disorder that made them less intelligent than others?
Actually I would.

Not even trying to be edgy, if a human was mentally damaged enough to be less intelligent than a pig I'd care nothing about them at all.

>> No.6944412

>>6944387
Not that anon but why don't you give evidence that animals don't have feelings then? Debate works both ways.

>> No.6944415

>>6944386
You seem like the kind of moron that goes for quantity over quality. Try in English here, I have no desire to go through 71 links and I suspect that you have no desire to go through a few actual links showing them all to be pseudo-science bullshit.

>> No.6944419

>>6944369
>>6944372
>>6943428

http://www.animal-rights-library.com/texts-m/singer03.htm

They can feel happiness and pain. Those feelings are not special in humans, they are evident in all sentient beings.

>> No.6944421

>>6944412
Not only was that a bad attempt at a deflection, but you've still failed to prove your assertion.

>> No.6944425

Thread theme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkA9WTyWrs

>> No.6944428

>>6944419
That's about as credible as lizard people from alex jones.

>> No.6944439

>>6944419

http://i.imgur.com/qIgcg7d.webm

>> No.6944441
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6944441

>>6944412
I didn't make the assertion in the first place. It's up to the originator of any assertion to prove it out, not for me to disprove it.

Sasquatch is real ya know!
hahahahahaha!

>> No.6944445
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6944445

>> No.6944452

>>6944387
well... alright....

References

Panksepp, J. (1982). "Toward a general psychobiological theory of emotions". Behavioral and Brain Sciences 5 (3): 407–422. doi:10.1017/S0140525X00012759.
"Emotions help animals to make choices (press release)". University of Bristol. 2010. Retrieved October 26, 2013.
Jacky Turner and Joyce D'Silva, ed. (2006). Animals, Ethics and Trade: The Challenge of Animal Sentience. Earthscan. ISBN 9781844072545. Retrieved October 26, 2013.
Wong, K. (2013). "How to identify grief in animals". Scientific American. Retrieved October 26, 2013.
Rygula, R; Pluta, H; P, Popik (2012). "laughing rats are optimistic". PLoS ONE 7 (12): e51959. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0051959. PMC 3530570. PMID 23300582.
Douglas, C.; Bateson, M.last2=Bateson; Walsh, C.; Béduéc, A.; Edwards, S.A. (2012). "Environmental enrichment induces optimistic cognitive biases in pigs". Applied Animal Behaviour Science 139 (1–2): 65–73. doi:10.1016/j.applanim.2012.02.018.
Bateson, M.; Desire, S.; Gartside, S.E.; Wright, G.A. (2011). "Agitated honeybees exhibit pessimistic cognitive biases". Current Biology 21 (12): 1070–1073. doi:10.1016/j.cub.2011.05.017. PMID 21636277.
Merriam-Webster (2004). The Merriam-Webster dictionary (11th ed.). Springfield, MA: Author.
Fox, E. (2008). Emotion Science: An Integration of Cognitive and Neuroscientific Approaches. Palgrave MacMillan. pp. 16–17. ISBN 978-0-230-00517-4.
Ekman, P. (1992). "An argument for basic emotions". Cognition and Emotion 6 (3): 169–200. doi:10.1080/02699939208411068.
Handel, S. "Classification of Emotions". Retrieved 30 April 2012.

>> No.6944457

>>6944387
Dawkins, M. (2000). "Animal minds and animal emotions". American Zoologist 40 (6): 883–888. doi:10.1668/0003-1569(2000)040[0883:amaae]2.0.co;2.
D.S. Mills and J.N. Marchant-Forde, ed. (2010). The Encyclopedia of Applied Animal Behaviour and Welfare. CABI. ISBN 0851997244.
Morgan, C.L. (1903). An Introduction to Comparative Psychology (2nd ed.). W. Scott, London. p. 59.
Dixon, B. (2001). "Animal emotions. Ethics and the Environment" 6 (2). pp. 22–30.
Moussaieff Masson, J.; McCarthy, S. (1996). When Elephants Weep: The Emotional Lives of Animals. Delta. ISBN 0-385-31428-0.
Darwin, C. (1872). The Expression Of The Emotions In Man And Animals. University of Chicago Press, Chicago.
Hess, U. and Thibault, P., (2009). Darwin and emotion expression. American Psychological Association, 64(2): 120-128.[1]
Scruton, R; Tyler, A. (2001). "Debate: Do animals have rights?". The Ecologist 31 (2): 20–23.
Oately, K.; Jenkins, J.M. (1996). Understanding Emotions. Blackwell Publishers. Malden, MA. ISBN 1-55786-495-0.
Paul, E; Harding, E; Mendl, M (2005). "Measuring emotional processes in animals: the utility of a cognitive approach". Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 29 (3): 469–491. doi:10.1016/j.neubiorev.2005.01.002. PMID 15820551.

>> No.6944458

>>6942767
>criticizing Japan ever

If Japan wants to kill DORPHIN AND WHARE then they can because I want to be an anime girl

>> No.6944460

>>6944428

So you fail to recognize that animals feel pain? If you put a paw, a hoof, a hand, etc. over a flame, all will have the same reaction of pulling away. It's not rocket science.

>> No.6944463

>>6944452
>"laughing rats are optimistic"
Wong, K. (2013). "How to identify grief in animals"

Good references and none of them are medical journals.

Gimmie an hour I got a couple links for you that destroys them.

>> No.6944467

>>6944387
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>> No.6944469

>>6944460
I never said that they don't feel pain, I said that they don't have the capacity for emotion and feelings.

>> No.6944473

>>6944387
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>>6944387
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>> No.6944486

>>6944387
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>> No.6944487

>>6944469

>can 'feel' pain
>no proof of 'feel'ings

u wot m8 >.<

>> No.6944489

>>6944460
I never said that they don't feel pain, I said that they don't have the capacity for emotion and feelings.

Because they don't have that capacity they're not going to understand suffering which is what you are asserting and none of those links prove your assertion.

>> No.6944490

>>6944387
Edgar, J.L., Lowe, J.C., Paul, E.S. and Nicol, C.J. (2011). "Avian maternal response to chick distress". Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences 278 (1721): 3129–3134. doi:10.1098/rspb.2010.2701. ISSN 0962-8452.
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>> No.6944495

>>6944487
Are you a cow?

>> No.6944504

>>6944463
you believe all of these people are wrong and you are right? do you have any publications on the subject?

>> No.6944509

I'll take one at random...
"Edgar, J.L., Lowe, J.C., Paul, E.S. and Nicol, C.J. (2011). "Avian maternal response to chick distress". Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences 278 (1721): 3129–3134. "

How does a chick that's imprinted on it's mom and that yaps a certain way and gives out a certain smell and vision prove out your point of suffering? It doesn't. Not a single one of those citations prove out that animals "suffer."

>> No.6944522

>>6944489

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jul/07/cows-best-friends

>> No.6944528

Agenda != science and proof

>> No.6944531

>>6944522
We are cow's best friends, if we didn't like to eat them so much then there wouldn't be so many of them.

>> No.6944535

>>6944489

http://www.awionline.org/pubs/Quarterly/05_54_2/542p67.htm

>> No.6944541

>>6944509
animals do suffer, these are just the references for the wiki page that you wanted

>> No.6944542

>>6944504
Actually you're deflecting, none of those citations have to do with proving that animals "suffer" which is your assertion.

Some of them are full of shit and like you, have an agenda to push. None of those are proper medical journals, a bunch of them are useless rags.

>> No.6944545

>>6944541
You were one that brought it up and was pushing it as references which as niggerpedia always does, fails miserably.

>> No.6944548

>>6944531

So they're lives can be filled with suffering until they're murder? Calves are torn away from their mother at birth. But no, they should be grateful that humans filled their lives with horror.

>> No.6944562

>>6944548
Murder is a legal term and only applies to humans. Animals need not apply, "suffering" is a human term too and doesn't apply to animals.

Are you a homosexual that likes to redefine language for your political agenda?

>> No.6944570

It take me more than an hour to find the names of a few books, just one really that nails your entire 71 or whatever.

>> No.6944583

>>6944562

What to you separates humans from other animals and makes those terms only applicable to us? All animals can suffer, and since they have their own desires taking their life away certainly is murder.

>> No.6944598

>>6944583
Sympathy, empathy, projection, planning for the future, stuff like that.

As far as we know we're the only ones that can do that which is a lot different from animals and niggers which seem to be only capable of reacting to insantaneous external stimuli.

Making a recipe for food for your family is a simple example.

>> No.6944602

>>6944583
written language is another to give knowledge to those that come after us.

>> No.6944608

>>6944583
Self-realizaton, wondering what else might be out there in the universe, a whole host of stuff.

>> No.6944612

>>6942753
Apples fall off of trees naturally all the time. Is there a difference between picking it off, and letting it fall off naturally?

>> No.6944619

>>6944612
Yes, like having hair fall out of your head versus pulling it out. Doesn't hurt when the hair naturally lets go as you shed, but hurts a hell of a lot more when someone yanks one out.

>> No.6944634

>>6944583
Almost forgot, love.

>> No.6944639

>>6944598
>>6944602
>>6944608

Well we can do those things, but animals can do stuff that we can't as well. It's not about the differences, it's about the things that unite us; the ability to feel pleasure and pain.

>>6944598

If you believe white people have more rights than black people I really don't see any breakthrough happening sadly.

>> No.6944640

>>6944619
When you get a few years older you'll get real pain when you have to yank out an errant nose hair. That hurts like a fuckin' bitch!

>> No.6944646

>>6944634

Animals feel love.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-mysteries-love/201402/can-animals-love

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-animals-that-feel-love-the-way-humans-do

>> No.6945141

>>6942776
Did you not read my post?

>> No.6945351

>>6944136
im not a fuckin nurd with a bunch of numbers to spout off for a dumb website.

just think about it y dontcha

>> No.6945504
File: 13 KB, 300x140, cockroach-large-and-cute_496x250-e1297544920259.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6945504

>>6942891
I do. Why kill anything if you don't have to?

This entire thread is just people saying "but what if whatever you said, BUT TAKEN TO ITS ABSOLUTE MOST EXTREME?" "Why try to limit suffering when you can't stop it" is about as good an argument as "Why not kill yourself if you're just going to die anyway?" I see about a hundred times more people bragging about how they're too superior to take a moral stand about anything at all than I see people bragging about trying to do something good.

>> No.6945541

every day is meat day!

fuck you fucking hippies, heaving vaginas and libtards

>> No.6945546

>>6944583
no, retard, some animals are incapable of feeling pain
they don't even have anything close to a coherent thought or any kind of actual self awareness

and they.. suffer? hahh

>> No.6945598

>>6945504
i agree, but every time we at least talk about it, there are seeds being planted. Its the same when i try to talk about freedom

>> No.6945600

>>6945546
sorry your dad lied when he took u fishing as a kid. There's no reliable evidence this is true.

Also anyone who isn't an atheist/nihilist should reduce meat eating.

>> No.6945609

>>6945504
Nothing you do matters in the grand scheme of things. Do what you want in life, but we all have the same end.

>> No.6947417

>>6945609

if you strive for happiness, giving meaning to your life is crucial

>> No.6947422

>>6947417
Thank for bumping this terrible thread, gandhi.

>> No.6947426

>>6942753
>Plant life is just so different from animal life, so I don't mind ending it to nourish myself.
Do vegetarians really lack self awareness?

>> No.6947472

>>6947426

You're ending more plants lives by eating meat so your argument is invalid.

>> No.6947476

>>6947422

What's so terrible about it?

>> No.6947490

You still eat less organisms by eating plants directly. Animals eat plants too so when you eat them, you're eating two things at once.
Also plants just don't have feelings.

>> No.6947496

>>6947490
Some mentally handicapped people don't have feelings, but we don't eat them do we?

>> No.6947521

>>6947496
We don't eat defective people because they're still people. I'm sure we'd spare the few sentient plants if there were any.

>> No.6947523

>>6947496

You're eating more "mentally handicapped people" or plants indirectly by eating animals that ate them. You're also supporting one of the leading contributors to environmental damage, animal agriculture, by eating meat, which threatens all plant life.

>> No.6947536

>>6947496
>>6947521
>>6947523
Are you really comparing plants to mentally handicapped people? My sister is a vegetable you insensitive fucks

>> No.6947547

>>6947536
What kind of vegetable?

>> No.6947553

>>6947547
Zucchini.

>> No.6947584

>>6944495
youd be surprise

>> No.6947616
File: 690 KB, 908x1322, oogaboogabooga.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6947616

Yeah I suppose when the dominant and star-faring species of Kelper 452b, which happened to evolve from their planet's equivalent of Magnoliophyta, invade Sol the United Earth League will probably conscript us vegetarians and vegans first you know as ironic punishment or something for drawing down the wrath of the Shrandarr Hegemony or something.

And you know, I'm cool with that. because I hope to make it through the first engagement and rape me some sweet sweet alium plant carpel awww yiss

>> No.6947685
File: 56 KB, 480x360, lion.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6947685

How would a vegetarian convince a Lion to convert to vegetarianism?

>> No.6947727

Veganon, why do you not eat fish either? They don't feel pain the way we do, and wild caught fish (as long as it isn't captured by trawling or whatever) doesn't have too much of an impact on the environment.

>> No.6947819

>>6947727

Since fish elicit a behavioral response to harm, I give them the benefit of the doubt. Just because they don't feel pain like humans doesn't mean they don't feel it.

>> No.6947827

Is it moral to eat animals that die of old age?

>> No.6947837

>>6942753
You're mostly talking about vegans. Though I do know SOME vegetarians do it for moral reasons, most of us do it for health reasons (though knowing nothing died for your meal I suppose is a perk). At least that's been my experience.

>> No.6947838

>>6947827

Moral but not realistic. The meat would taste bad at best and be inedible at worst, depending on the cause of its death.

>> No.6947843

IDGAF about the thread itself, but the veggie man in the OP is creepy as shit and if faced with that hideous apparition, I'd eat the shit out of it in self defense.

>> No.6947846

>>6947843
I'm Old Greeeeeegggg, I got a mangina!

>> No.6947849

>>6947827
>>6947838

To add to that, I believe there is a valid argument that their body is simply not for our use. I wouldn't eat a deceased person, and I believe in treating animals' bodies with the same respect.

>> No.6947859

>>6947827
I wouldn't have a problem with that other than it would probably make you ill if you're not eating meat until an animal dies of old age because your body wouldn't be used to it, they don't just drop dead left and right and I'm assuming it wouldn't taste very good and might even be unsafe for consumption depending if they had age-related health conditions.

>> No.6947862

>>6947837

I guess you admit to not being vegetarian for the ethics, but to clarify animals do die for dairy and eggs, there's just no direct evidence on your plate.