What vegans eat

[Anonymous No.6565543]

What's your favorite vegan thing to eat?

http://liberatehp.freeforums.net/thread/10/vegans-eat

[Anonymous No.6565659]

Anything with chickpeas

[Anonymous No.6565662]

>>6565543
Passion fruit

But being vegan is fucking retarded first world shit. Eat meat losers.

[Anonymous No.6565670]

>>6565543
inb4 b8

My favorite vegan dishes are Indian curries, mostly things with lentils, chickpeas, or potatoes. One of my favorite curries is made with potato and cauliflower. Serve with some cumin rice and I'd almost consider becoming a vegfag

[Anonymous No.6565689]

>>6565543
>implying if you asked for this at Taco Bell it wouldn't get fucked up every single time
>and it would cost $3 extra because they add for extras but do not subtract for holding other ingredients

Just fucking make it yourself you lazy cunt.

[Anonymous No.6565691]

>>6565662
lol okay.

[Anonymous No.6565694]

falafel in a pita with the fixings.

[Anonymous No.6565695]

>>6565689
>do not subtract for holding other ingredients
I always hated this. If I was ever dumb enough to start a food place, substitutions would work on an add/subtract system. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. YOU WANT JUST BREAD? THAT'LL BE 75 CENTS.

[Anonymous No.6565696]

>>6565689
I've actually never tried this because I get anxiety if I make my order at Taco Bell too complicated because they will probably spit in it. It sounds so good though.

[Anonymous No.6565708]

>>6565696
They won't spit in it, they just won't read the monitor for more than .2 seconds and throw everything on there that you asked to be "held"

[Anonymous No.6565834]

>>6565708
Well also since so many retards hate vegans I'm scared that they might be one of those faggots that posts all the nasty shit they do to people in restaurants they think they might not like because of the kind of food they order. I've seen too many of those posts.

[Anonymous No.6565860]

>>6565662
meat that isnt grassfed is poison.

I bet you never had a grass fed cow in your life. Theres a huge difference.

anyway, you can get the same nutriton from a diet of nuts, grains, veggies and fruits.
Cow tit juice is fucking terrible for you.

Meat is heavily marketed.

[Anonymous No.6566363]

>>6565695
>refusing free money
Good thing you're not running a restaurant.

[Anonymous No.6566364]

>>6565708
They WILL spit in it if you walk back into the store to complain.

[Anonymous No.6566453]

>>6565543
could vegan eat shit? serious question.
if yes is it have to be vegan shit or they can eat normal person shit?

[Anonymous No.6566459]

>>6566453
Telling girls that you're a vegan sounds like a fantastic way to avoid having to eat pussy.

[Anonymous No.6566460]

>>6565834
Those are just shitposters, anon. In reality if you go in during normal times when there is a full crew and a manager present, no one is going to pull shit like that. Late at night maybe the risk runs higher depending on factors. Just don't specify that you'd like it to be vegan. They don't care enough about your order to decipher your reasons for wanting your food a certain way, and there are so many diets that order modifications are a regular occurrence and won't raise an eyebrow.

[Anonymous No.6566461]

>>6565543
Have actually never had a meal without meat that I considered satisfying, or even a complete meal.

Closest thing I can think of would be a nice salad but I'd prefer cheese and chicken in it, maybe a curry but I prefer meat in it, I guess I could make a meal out of a tub of spicy garlic hummus and a stack of fresh naan. All sounds depressing though.

[Anonymous No.6567066]

>>6566461
Damn your life sucks.

Try out some of these. https://www.pinterest.com/vfortheanimals/

[Anonymous No.6567077]

Falafel sandwich, they're easily the best vegan thing I have eaten. Gado-gado (Indonesian salad with peanut sauce dressing) is a close second.

[Anonymous No.6567078]

>>6566460
I hope not, but there are so many retarded assholes in the world and I don't doubt that a good chunk of them are working at fast food restaurants.

http://boycott-cafos.tumblr.com/post/120090379304/sailornightfury

[Anonymous No.6567091]

The other day I ordered a veggie sandwich from a health food store and they asked if I wanted vegan rice cheese and I was like "Sure, never tried that kind before", and then I got this speech from another guy working there about vegan cheeses and why people bother with them. I am glad the nice guy was the one making my sandwich because the other one's hipster attitude scared me.

The rice cheese isn't very good though, tbh I would agree with him in the case of that sandwich. Ended up peeling it off. But I do like Follow Your Heart vegan mozzarella and Daiya shredded cheeses on occasion. And nut cheeses are awesome.

[Anonymous No.6567183]

>>6567091
Non dairy "hard" cheeses suck fucking donkey dicks. The only vegan "dairy" products I'll use are the fake sour cream, the fake cream cheese, and cashew "cheese" (which is more like a spread or soft "cheese" anyway).
I'm not vegan (never will be, either) but I'm allergic to dairy. Honestly, it tastes better to just skip the cheese than to use one of those shit tier fakes. Pizza without cheese still tastes pretty damn good, or cashew cheese or the fake cream cheese make an acceptable base. Anything else can suck my dick. And whomever decided that nutritional yeast tastes cheesy should be fucking publicly flogged. That shit may be full of nutrients, but it tastes like powdered vomit.

[Anonymous No.6567192]

>>6567183
Nutritional yeast I feel is an acquired taste and I agree it is highly overrated taste-wise IMO. It has an earthy taste that is alright but yeah I would only use it myself, never use it in a meal I'm making for anyone else.

Have you not tried Follow Your Heart vegan mozzarella? It's awesome on pizza and lasagna and in home made hot pockets.

[Anonymous No.6567199]

>>6567192
I like creaminess and saltiness and a bit of oil on my pizza. It needs that fattiness IMO, so I always use a vegan cheese like Follow Your Heart mozzarella on my pizzas. When I go out to eat I get Daiya which is good too but at home I only use it for things like soup.

[Anonymous No.6567210]

>>6567192
No, I haven't tried that particular kind. I'll give it a shot, but I don't have high hopes at this point. I've thrown more fake cheeses in the trash than I care to list, and so I've pretty much stopped wasting money trying them. But, I'll try that one. If it sucks, I'm done trying.

[Anonymous No.6567244]

>>6567210
Okay. Make sure you don't get the cheddar though. Tried making mac 'n' cheese with it once and it was pretty bad.

[Anonymous No.6567250]

the guy i'm sleeping with can't have a lot of dairy (not a vegan, idk if lactose intolerant or not) or he gets stomach upsets, so i keep my cooking mostly milk-free

i've only tried one brand of fake cheese and it was kind of terrible, but he appreciated it anyway.

any brand recommendations? i'm in the UK, which makes this harder

related to the thread topic, houmous. i make my own. have it on/in fucking everything the week i make it until i'm sick of it, repeat every month.

[Anonymous No.6567261]

>>6567250
I heard Vegusto is good and I'm pretty sure they sell it in the UK. Never tried it since they don't sell it hear. Sheese is also supposed to be good? Again though, never tried it so I have no idea.

[Anonymous No.6567265]

>>6567261
here* oops

[Anonymous No.6567592]

>>6565543
beans and rice are a great combo
tofu is got tier
and peanutbutter sandwhiches crush all

[Anonymous No.6567612]

>>6565691
They look like they're having fun

[Anonymous No.6567689]

>>6565543
>vegan
Meme lifestyle aside

Things with vegetables and legumes that are good are obvious: Salsa, smoothies, dips, the blackbean burgers, chickpea anything, I like this chickpea pie, fruits and fruit accessories etc etc Anything with fat is bound to taste good, like any nut butter.

But fish, meat, eggs, and dairy products taste better and most are better for you in ways those other are not.

[Anonymous No.6567840]

>>6565691
Those guys have tons of bugs and shit in their food

[Anonymous No.6568512]

>>6567250
>>6567261
sheese is disgusting don't waste your money, so are brands like daiya. so disgusting. biocheese (aka violife) is pretty great, vegusto is okay if you like strong flavours, it's VERY pungent. tofutti is gross, don't bother, unless you're using the cream cheese for sauces or desserts.

wilmersburger is the fucking bomb, any german made vegan cheese/mock meats are the best. you can get them from ssov http://www.vegancross.com/category_s/1820.htm

[Anonymous No.6568516]

A big fucking salad because I'm a whinny fucking rabbit and it's so much better for my asshole and the Earth to eat this special snowflake diet of beans and bugfarts

[Anonymous No.6568554]

>>6565694
>>6567077
Thirding falafel, that's great stuff. extra tehina plz

[Anonymous No.6568610]

>>6568516
I need you everytime I have to deal with a vegantard on other boards

[Anonymous No.6568617]

>>6565691
Free food is free food.

[Anonymous No.6568622]

>>6565543

[Anonymous No.6569167]

>>6566459
>>6566453
I think human by-products are OK for vegans, unless they consider the idea to be specist.

[Anonymous No.6569173]

lel

[Anonymous No.6569179]

>>6568622
That may actually be one of the most disgusting dishes ever.

[Anonymous No.6569181]

>>6568622
couldn't they make a tofu curry with watermelon chutney? that still sounds pretty bad but not as bad as blraglhglhalgh

[Anonymous No.6569190]

>>6569179
It's from the stoner vegan. Of course it's disgusting when you're not high as kite.

[Anonymous No.6569207]

Falafel. That shit is fucking delicious, it tastes like meat if you fry it properly and it just--hnngh, it's just a fuckin' tasty meal on its own.

I freakin' LOVE that shit.

[Anonymous No.6569235]

>>6567244
this, the chedda is nasty but the mozza is quite good.

[Anonymous No.6569240]

Quorn chick'n is amazing and underrated. The nuggets are great even in the microwave.

[Anonymous No.6569708]

>>6566459
>not wanting to eat pussy
You're gay, Anon. Sorry you had to find out this way.

[Anonymous No.6569713]

>>6569708
If you're willing to put that in your mouth, you're probably also willing to put a dick in your mouth.

[Anonymous No.6570039]

>>6567689
Animal products have a thousand negative effects on health that are completely avoided through a plant based diet.

And I definitely, definitely, completely 500% with all my heart and soul disagree about animal products tasting better lol. I always feel so sorry for people who say that. If you lived with me you would know so much better than fried chicken.... I see animal products as uneducated peasant food. No offense, but seriously that shits gross and it's really bizarre to me people choose to eat it knowing they can easily be vegan. But yeah I guess they don't know anything about vegan food so that's tragic.

[Anonymous No.6570096]

>>6568512
I agree on the Tofutti. IDK how they sell those slices. But the cream cheese I remember being good. I like Daiya in soups though, specifically this one. http://www.thatwasvegan.com/2012/11/15/lasagna-soup/ So awesome. I don't like the block cheeses I've tried from Daiya though at all, they remind me more of the Tofutti kind of cheap flavor. I also get Daiya on pizza when I go out to eat and it's good. But yeah, at home I always use Follow Your Heart vegan mozzarella.

Have you tried Cheezly? Kinda curious about it after seeing this.
http://archives.quarrygirl.com/2011/08/06/cheezly-is-back-in-the-usa/

[Anonymous No.6570105]

>>6569190
The Vegan Stoner actually has some awesome recipes. Their green bean casserole was amazing.

>>6569207
Am I the only one who hates falafel? It's so dry.

>>6569240
I think Quorn is just vegetarian. Has eggs in it. Never tried their chick'n. But I love Gardein. And even Boca chick'n. Boca reminds me of cafeteria nuggets from my childhood.

[Anonymous No.6570116]

>>6565543
Raw ground beef.

[Anonymous No.6570119]

>>6570039
haehahah what reddit post did you copy paste this from

[Anonymous No.6570178]

>>6570119
That was just my actual opinion. You couldn't pay me $1,000 dollars to eat a bite of chicken these days. Not worth it.

[Anonymous No.6570186]

>>6570178
nobody would
your shitty opinion isnt worth a grand, kid

[Anonymous No.6570192]

>>6570039
>a normal person eats a normal amount of animal products and is normal
>you eat plants and think you're educated nobility

[Anonymous No.6570203]

>>6570192
I'm more educated than people who eat animal products on the topic of animal products and veganism. There's no pomposity here, just stating facts.

[Anonymous No.6570222]

>>6566459
Well, yeah. Because you won't get any pussy at all, because you're a fucking vegan.

[Anonymous No.6570237]

>>6570222
As a vegan female I would never even consider dating an omnivore and would fuck an ethical vegan man so hard based on pretty much that quality alone so you're wrong. Vegan men are in high demand.

[Anonymous No.6570295]

>>6570237
>Vegan men are in high demand.
until cultured meat is cheap and veganism becomes pointless. you're a fad.

>As a vegan female
kek

[Anonymous No.6570304]

>>6570203
I know Vegans love to have back-patting orgies with each other but this is the first time I've seen one try to do it by himself.

[Anonymous No.6570307]

>>6570237
Only to vegan women, which nobody but vegan men fucking want.

[Anonymous No.6570313]

>>6570237
>Vegan men are in high demand
because they all suck cock

[Anonymous No.6570320]

>>6570237
>>6570237
>mfw someone actually becomes a vegan just for poon

[Anonymous No.6570321]

>>6570237
btw im a gril

[Anonymous No.6570347]

>>6570304
It's seriously just a fact though.

>>6570307
ROFL, I've already had men go vegan for me actually. Not to toot my horn or anything but I create boners on a large scale. Most vegan chicks I know of are super hot and perfect so IDK what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.6570497]

>>6570347
>this whole fucking post.

[Anonymous No.6570513]

>>6570237
LOL, men who like meat, aka heterosexuals, don't want to put up with your shit anyways, I've dated a vegan and a black woman, would literally rather date a black woman, less crazy. Take that how you will, also you are not healthy enough to produce or especially raise a healthy child.

[Anonymous No.6570546]

>>6570237
>Vegan men are in high demand.
maybe in small vegan circles. There are enough ways to get poon without being vegan. In conclusion from your post: vegan women don't get laid and blame it on the lack of vegan (or "viable") men

#rekt

[Anonymous No.6570554]

>>6565543
Don't eat a lot of vegan food, but probably hummus and pita chips, it's one of my favorite snacks. There's a lentil stew we make sometimes that's vegan except for chicken broth, and it's pretty good too.

Random question for vegans in the thread. Do vegans breastfeed their babies? Or does that go against the 'no animal products' philosophy?

[Anonymous No.6570557]

>>6570546
lol, they also have bony 12 year old figures for the most part

[Anonymous No.6570570]

>>6570554

>Random question for vegans in the thread. Do vegans breastfeed their babies?

Yes

[Anonymous No.6570575]

Daily reminder that atleast dramatically lowering meat and dairy consumption is clearly associated with better health

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/do-flexitarians-live-longer/

Whatever your view on vegans is, you better start learning how to make food like them if you want to live a long, healthy life

[Anonymous No.6570581]

>>6570575
vegan life just seems longer
>choosing quantity over quality

[Anonymous No.6570591]

>>6566459
Swapping body fluids is not against veganism, that includes oral sex. Don't see how/why it would be, just like human breast milk for infants is also not against veganism.

[Anonymous No.6570598]

>>6567078
My mother has an intolerance for both gluten and dairy and I can feel for those stories
The slightest amount and a few minutes later she's in pain. Gluten is more of an issue because its such a big issue now with it being a fad diet. Now she is able to get a lot more variety at grocery stores and there are a lot of restaurants that offer a gluten menu or list allergens.
But because most people arent really affected they can get away with negligence when keeping the food seperated or even just disregard for it. Since its relatively rare they dont get called out enough to do it right since noone knows

[Tarsus No.6570650]

>>6565543
I'd have to say chili over red cargo rice with a yeast-almond topping.

[Anonymous No.6570664]

>>6565543
I am ordering this tomorrow. can you even get guacamole at taco bell or potatoes?

[Anonymous No.6570679]

>>6570581
>implying health effects your longevity and not your quality of life

With medical science being what it is you'll live a long joyless life for you last 10-15 years if you're in bad health.

[Anonymous No.6570687]

>>6570513
I am healthy enough. And it's funny because I babysit for a vegan family right now and their child is amazingly bright and active and tall and healthy. You're so fucking ignorant. Seba Johnson (Olympian) and Nyjah Huston (professional skateboarder) were both raised vegan since birth, and Joaquin Phoenix has been vegan since age 3. Men who like meat wouldn't deserve me at my worst. Shut the fuck up.

>>6570546
Huh? I'm not getting laid because I'm actually really picky and will only have sex with someone I would like to have children with. I have no problem with not getting laid. It's pretty convenient being able to tell people I only date vegans. But if they get offended when they go vegan for me I tell them they have to be vegan for their own reasons otherwise it's meh.

>>6570554
Yes. The woman I babysit for has the largest natural breasts I've ever seen and breast feeds both of her children.

>>6570557
That's wrong for both vegan men and vegan women... I bet you haven't even met more than 2 vegans tops. Most vegan men I know are really buff. Vegan women I'm friends with are curvy goddesses or really fit.

[Anonymous No.6570690]

>>6570687
>curvy goddesses
bahahahaha, if you mean "fat fucks" then you should just say it

[Anonymous No.6570692]

>>6570664
yes and yes as it is used in other stuff from the menu.

[Anonymous No.6570702]

>>6570679
Some things cannot be feasibly fixed and the treatment is worse than the malady. Your general health correlates decently with your life expectancy and how capable you are of sustaining any injury or illness.

[Anonymous No.6570704]

>>6570690
No I mean they're built like Beyonce with bigger boobs. One of them is softer though and maybe edging on overweight but I think it's beautiful. She's beautiful. Anyway, point is they're definitely not all scrawny.

[Anonymous No.6570711]

I guess I understand not wanting to harm animals if you don't need to in order to eat healthily. I wouldn't have a problem if everything in the future was vegan if fake meat tasted the same, cooked the same, had the same texture, etc.

But god damn. Is it really morally reprehensible to think that animal suffering shouldn't be given the same priority as human suffering? Animals clearly don't feel pain the same way humans do. To me, a cow or a pig is barely a step above plants as far as sentience goes. And when vegans compare the meat/dairy industries to things like the Holocaust, actual genocides, etc.... that's just insanely disrespectful and displays a shocking lack of empathy and insight.

Anyway I'm going to keep posting pictures of slaughterhouses and animal death for a while.

[Anonymous No.6570715]

youtu be I8TBvkcSeFk

A master butcher at work.

[Anonymous No.6570720]

This is where chicken comes from, children.

[Anonymous No.6570721]

>>6570105
>Am I the only one who hates falafel? It's so dry.
I had falafel a few times. Some are dry as the gobi desert, some are moist. I don't know what changed in recipes.
Try 'em in another restaurant.

[Anonymous No.6570725]

>>6570711
http://laist.com/2012/10/01/holocaust_survivor_to_lead_protest_of_la_slaughterhouse.php

"I see a striking parallel between the deceptive bucolic images of pigs cavorting in green meadows on Farmer John's murals and the cynical inscription 'Work makes you free' over the gate to Auschwitz." He continued:

"And, I do see a striking parallel in the mindsets of both sets of oppressors: their self-image as upstanding members of their communities, their abject objectification of their victims, their callous use of cattle cars for transport, their continuous refinement of killing line technology, their preoccupation with record keeping and cost-effectiveness, their eagerness to hide and masquerade their horrendous deeds."

[Anonymous No.6570726]

Native Foods has really good fake chicken tendies. It's like McNuggets but they actually taste healthy.

[Tarsus No.6570730]

>>6570720
Pictures of slaughterhouses and animal stuff really have about the same effect on me as those sappy starving children in Africa commercials that play during Christmas. I've seen those ads a lot of time, and I'm more pissed that I'm being guilted than feeling sorry for Africans.

[Anonymous No.6570731]

>>6570726
Oh man I wish I lived closer to Native Foods so bad. Everything I've ever tried from there was amazing. Better than anything I ever had as an omnivore.

[Anonymous No.6570733]

>>6570725
That's one Holocaust survivor's opinion. You're not addressing the central issue: should animal suffering be given the same priority as human suffering?

[Anonymous No.6570734]

>>6570679
with vegan diet being what it is you'll live a long joyless life for the rest of your life.

Not only because you don't eat meat or milk or eggs, but because you're one of those people that asks for another menu and always has to be special. That or you only eat at home, cooking only for yourself (and your mandatory vegan bf). Or are you one of those people that will force her kids to be vegan.

[Anonymous No.6570735]

>>6570730
Why the fuck would you be pissed that someone is trying to get you to feel empathy? (Assuming that's what they're doing as opposed to maybe just educating you and you misunderstanding it because of your own feelings about it.) Are you seriously that unashamedly self-centered?

[Tarsus No.6570737]

"Vegan" mentioned.
Swell with shitposts.

[Anonymous No.6570741]

I actually make really good tempeh burgers, but I feel no moral obligation to not eat meat.

[Tarsus No.6570742]

>>6570735
Yeh.

[Anonymous No.6570747]

>>6570741
looks neat

[Anonymous No.6570752]

I believe that all people who eat meat should kill an animal themselves. It's too easy to think of meat as just "stuff" without understanding that a living, breathing organism died so you could eat it. We're losing our connection to nature and our understanding of nutrition and our bodies.

[Anonymous No.6570756]

Some kind of Hindu ritual.

[Anonymous No.6570757]

>>6570687
>curvy
i knew it. fat people are obnoxious and in your face way too much as a defense mechanism.

[Anonymous No.6570759]

Halal slaughter.

[Anonymous No.6570763]

Some lamb would really hit the spot right now.

[Anonymous No.6570766]

Probably going to stop soon. I was hoping to have a serious debate but I guess no one feels like it.

[Anonymous No.6570780]

>>6570692
okay,thanks.

[Anonymous No.6570814]

>>6570766
>>6570759
>>6570763
Animals aren't people so I don't care.

[Anonymous No.6570880]

>>6570752
I agree, to a certain extent. It's a good experience to have, but I wouldn't expect people to do it all the time, it's too much work.

[Anonymous No.6570939]

>>6565543
There's no way that this is vegan.

While it's true that Taco Bell hardly uses any real meat, there's no way that their non-meat items don't use some kind of animal by-product.

[Anonymous No.6571030]

>>6570939
That's okay, because vegans don't really care. They only avoid animal products when it's convenient for them.

There are very few vegans out there that even attempt to avoid animal byproducts entirely.

[Anonymous No.6571036]

>>6570734
I'm actually extremely happy. And I prefer to eat at vegan only restaurants but when I do eat somewhere else I know exactly what to get. But I can tell you're the kind of person who would roll their eyes if someone asked for a list of allergens.

Are you one of those people who would force their children to eat the flesh and secretions of severely abused animals and fund the destruction of their world for them and their children while giving them misinformation about it being good for their health?

>>6570757
Are you talking about me? I'm pretty fit.
http://i.imgur.com/vsyRQpX.jpg?1

>>6570939
They list their ingredients on their web site so feel free to check.

[Anonymous No.6571077]

>>6571036
>save the animals

you should better save your own ass

[Anonymous No.6571090]

>>6571077
From what?

[Anonymous No.6571098]

Veganism is a cult.

[Anonymous No.6571113]

>>6571098
That's how I feel about people eating animal products... It's scary.

[Anonymous No.6571708]

>>6570711

> Is it really morally reprehensible to think that animal suffering shouldn't be given the same priority as human suffering?

Does it need to be? Any time I see someone try to make a point out of "animals aren't the same as humans," it ends up being "therefore their existence doesn't matter in the slightest bit and we can treat them however we want." Why so all or nothing? I don't prioritize humans outside of my immediate family as much as I prioritize my family, I would save my mom on a sinking ship rather than a stranger, but wouldn't it be crazy for me to then say that killing people I don't know isn't morally reprehensible?

>Animals clearly don't feel pain the same way humans do

What do you mean? They have nerves just like us. You hit them, they cry/squeal and try to avoid further pain. They can be traumatized and mentally scarred. Killing them for your culinary pleasure is a pretty fucked up thing to do, and if the only thing that would get you to stop is a perfect replica of their flesh, you may want to check into a rehab center

[Anonymous No.6571737]

>>6570687
Post hand with timestamp, I'm convinced your are a big fluffy lard ass that eats powdered sugar donuts all day. Also you are retarded either way, too many things to even list.

[Anonymous No.6571740]

>>6570295

>until cultured meat is cheap and veganism becomes pointless

Except for the objective health benefits of avoiding meat

[Anonymous No.6571800]

>>6571740
>mfw imagining you running a gauntlet while people throw large pieces of meat at you
there were health benefits from avoiding butter and switching to vegetable shortening too.

[Anonymous No.6571818]

These chips are good, and just happen to be vegan.
Malt Vinegar and Sea Salt ones just fucking hammer you.

[Anonymous No.6571827]

>>6565860
>meat that isnt grassfed is poison.
corn is a grass :^)

[Anonymous No.6571835]

>>6571800

The idea with that was that switching from a saturated fat to an (poly)unsaturated fat would be better for you, and the idea wasn't really tested before its promotion. Turns out artificially saturating an unsaturated fat is even worse than eating a regular saturated fat, even though regular saturated fats are still shit for you. Best to just eat natural, unmodified plant fats like nuts and avocado.

There's not really a comparable situation with meat. Swap meat out for some beans and all the evidence in the world is in favor of your health improving. I'm eating some black beans right now, it's delicious. Then I'm going to use some of the broth from cooking them to make a quick gravy, and use that to flavor some yellow-eyed peas

[Anonymous No.6571851]

>>6570687
>Joaquin Phoenix
was raised in in a cult commune where child sex abuse was part of their culture

[Anonymous No.6571852]

I can understand not wanting to eat the animals themselves, but what's so wrong with eating things like eggs/milk/honey? Especially when you know the animals it comes from are cage free and taken care of pretty well.

[Anonymous No.6571858]

>>6571835
>Swap meat out for some beans and all the evidence in the world is in favor of your health improving.
probably because people just eat way too much meat, and they don't eat fatty meat as much as they used, leading to them eating even more. fatty meat is more filling.

seasoning a pot of beans with meat should be how people eat meat. not a 16 oz steak for dinner.

[Anonymous No.6571859]

>>6571852

There's no situation where eggs and milk are being produced and the animals aren't sold and slaughtered after they've been used up. In egg production, they also kill the male chicks by throwing them into grinders, drowning, or crushing them because they don't produce eggs/money. In the dairy industry, cows are kept pregnant year round (the reason they make milk in the first place, same as any other mammal), and have their children taken away, with the males being killed as babies to produce veal.

[Anonymous No.6571871]

>>6571858

>probably because people just eat way too much meat

I agree, and they don't eat enough beans/legumes, which actually have health benefits

>and they don't eat fatty meat as much as they used, leading to them eating even more. fatty meat is more filling.

I don't know about that, I could definitely eat more calories worth of fatty meat than really lean meat like chicken breast because it's so much more calorie dense and tasty. Fatty meat is also worse for your health, especially fatty red meat, so there's that too.

>seasoning a pot of beans with meat should be how people eat meat. not a 16 oz steak for dinner.

Definitely, but meat being so affordable means most people can afford to have meat as the centerpiece of a meal, 3 times a day, 7 days a week, rather than a more traditional one meal once a week.

[Anonymous No.6572093]

>>6571859
Ohh fucking whaaaaa, your right we should stop eating the chickens and set them all free in the wild where they will no longer have to worry about the stress of being food and can live a free life. Fucking retards.

[Anonymous No.6572100]

>>6572093
You yourself face the risk of death every single day. Why is it wrong to lock you up, or farm you? Why is it correct to let you face the world's risks?

It makes more sense to just keep you in a controlled, clean room environment. It's safer. You'll more reliably live longer, and come on, what do you really lose by it?

Come, Anon. The door is open, your room is waiting. The unknowns of life will vanish, we will decide for you, and you will be happy.

[Anonymous No.6572115]

>>6572100
Well because I am not a dumb chicken or cow that would allow such a thing. Not eating any meat I'm sure has left you weak and helpless so I'm sure that is a possible scenario in your head.

I wish you could see how well a chicken would protect itself in nature, I'm sure being torn apart alive is much more humane fucking braindead veggifag, take some vitamins geez.

[Anonymous No.6572127]

>>6572115
>Well because I am not a dumb chicken or cow that would allow such a thing.
You'd be surprised what you can be forced into. Humans have their limits.

>Not eating any meat I'm sure has left you weak and helpless
I just barely got done eating ~1.5 lbs of turkey. I'd say you ought to think more deeply about yourself, and your world. Your thoughts are broken, and driven mostly by emotion. The petty kind.

>I wish you could see how well a chicken would protect itself in nature
Species carve their place in an ecology If they can't adapt, they die out. That's how it works. That's how it worked for us, that's how it works for everything else. The sooner you stop trying to convince yourself you're necessary and doing them a favor, the sooner you can begin to think clearly. Start by looking into the basics of ecology, specifically how keystones species work. Then look at basics of a food web and how apex predators fit in. I mean that genuinely. We can talk about philosophy and how things ought to be all we want, but it's probably better to stick with things that have some hard substance behind it.

[Anonymous No.6572132]

>>6572127
keystone* species
As usual the mere act of eating garbles my mind all up. Enough to just want to put a bullet through it, get it over with, ya know.

[Anonymous No.6572136]

>>6572127
Holy shit you are a special kind of fucked in the head, how did I even get in this thread?

Also, vegan jesus is angry with you for stealing that turkey from its turkey family, you should really follow through and eat that bullet now, yummy!

[Anonymous No.6572142]

>>6572136
>Holy shit you are a special kind of fucked in the head, how did I even get in this thread?
That's shorthand for "I can't respond. I'm not capable of honesty (yet)."

You don't strike me as much of a thinker, and you seem very uncomfortable, so I'm not too surprised. The difference between me and you is fairly simple, one of us is honest and can accept the nature of their actions, one cannot.

I know what I'm doing. I don't really have much choice, and willfully choose to consistently consume the flesh of my fellow creature to sustain my own wretched existence. I know the implications of this, I know what it does and I know roughly what it means. I hope you reach the same kind of honesty.

[Anonymous No.6572150]

>>6565543
Pretty sure there is gelatin in that "gel cup"...

I'm not vegan but when I went to China, they had VEGAN BUFFETS at the Buddhist temples. It's a tourist experience so I had to try it. Everything had spices, different flavours, and was seasoned well. Not like the vegan cardboard shit you get here.

[Anonymous No.6572196]

>>6572142
So you think I'm being dishonest with myself? I eat meat and I like it, we are humans, we are a predator much like the wolves or lions that rip animals apart with no sympathy or remorse. The difference is we can actually think, we can provide our families and communities with meat more efficiently and without driving species into extinction. It may not be pretty sometimes but that is the way it is, using machines and farms may not seem natural but it is nature, we are just more advanced than other species. You can cry all over your turkey sandwich or quit eating meat all together but it isn't going to change anything. If there was a species that was able to do the same thing to us and we could not prevent it then that is nature, it isn't always pretty.


To all the actual vegans, hypothetically, if it was scientifically discovered that plant life could think, felt pain and had basic emotion towards family, how would this effect your diet? I am not looking for an argument I am genuinely interested in honest responses, pls respond

[Anonymous No.6572199]

>>6572093

What I was going for was more not breeding billions of chickens to begin with, and instead eating sensible plant-based diets

[Anonymous No.6572207]

>>6572150
Most Asian cultures have vegetarian dishes due to the prominence of Buddhism. Some of the best Indian or Thai dishes I've had were vegetarian curries. I've also had the opportunity to have a Chinese New Year dinner with a Chinese family once, and one of the days they served vegetarian dishes soley to offset the copious amounts of meat they would consume over the next few days of feasting. While some of the stuff was a bit unorthodox, such as fermented tofu and a kind of skin made from soybeans, like you said there was actual flavoring and spices in their dishes.

[Anonymous No.6572209]

>>6572196

>we are humans, we are a predator much like the wolves or lions

I don't know why some people feel the need to pretend they're a lion. You're an ape, bro. You eat fruits and shoots.

>nature isn't pretty, abloobloobloo, I'm king of the jungle, I don't like it but that's how it is, abloobloobloo

That's what we call the "might makes right" argument, which is a textbook example of immorality. This doesn't even have to refer to animals, humans have argued the same way throughout history to justify all the shitty things we do to our own species. Nature can be shitty because people can naturally be shitty. You can choose not to be shitty instead of playing the victim of nature.

[Anonymous No.6572217]

>>6572196
What I think is that the more we chip away at your beliefs, the more you will unearth contradictions within yourself that you wouldn't be able to readily reconcile.

If our interaction with other animals is inherently natural, and this makes it right, then so are the rest of our behaviors, as well as anything we're capable of. Whether it be war, rape, or murder. It strips "natural" of any meaning or utility, and suddenly everything we do is justified. So what's the point of pretending humans are so intelligent? If that really is the case, we clearly have very little choice in modulating our actions, and very little faculty for real thought. Braindead machines devoid of consciousness. More or less, you will claim things are natural when it suits you, you won't when it doesn't. This is fine if you just cease to use the term "natural" in a way that includes us, it's dishonest if you don't.

We're vicious animals. But we also have a choice. And we're intelligent enough to understand how inefficient what we do is. Then you get all that theory of mind and empathy stuff we like to tout. Clearly not all of us are so good at it. Go interact with a cow, a pig, a cat. You might not like what you find if you actually looked.

>Plants
There's a good deal of evidence they respond to stimuli. We have no basis to judge their sense of self experience, and we probably never will. Difference is their growth cycle is very short, and they're just seeds that net benefit from our replanting. Similarly, many plants grow berries specifically to be eaten and shat out elsewhere by animals. The nature of their existence is different.

[Anonymous No.6572235]

>>6572217

I think what's more convincing about the plant morality argument is that they have no central nervous system. Like you said, they respond to stimuli, but as far as we can tell they don't have consciousness that can process the information, and they aren't influenced by emotion. When humans are in a coma, most of their body functions fine, they breathe and generate new cells as long as they get food, but they're not conscious. A plant is like a human that's been in a coma from birth til death. It's alive, but not in the same sense as the animal kingdom (though there are animals like claims and oysters that might as well be plants).

Of course, nobody actually makes that fucking argument to begin with unless they're trying to defend their actions against a vegan by using the tu quoque fallacy

[Anonymous No.6572243]

>>6572235
You're kinda picking on the plants there a bit bro

[Anonymous No.6572247]

>>6572243

Fuck the plants >:) he he he!

[Anonymous No.6572257]

>>6572199
>sensible plant-based diets
But I nor the majority of the human race wants to do that, and we don't have to we breed billions of chickens because if not we would eat them into extinction. They are a delicious source of protein and it is completely worth it.

>>6572209
Maybe you are an ape that eats fruits and shoots but I am a human who eats meats and vegetables. I am not arguing "might makes right" I am not excusing humans from war and shit, but we like meat and have evolved to be meat eaters, you aren't going to devolve our species with some hippie bullshit. I think you are confused in thinking that most people deep down feel so sorry about eating meat and how the animals feel about it, I have morals, I don't do shitty things to humans, but I do not feel bad about animals dying to feed me. If I was put into the position of killing my own meat or not eating it, I would be hunting right now.

>>6572217
>>6572235
yada yada you cannot change my views about meat, I will get bored with this hippie crap soon don't worry then yall can discuss making nasty versions of meat dished out of fungus and fruit.

but this
>hypothetically, if it was scientifically discovered that plant life could think, felt pain and had basic emotion towards family, how would this effect your diet? I am not looking for an argument I am genuinely interested in honest responses, pls respond

I would like a real response about the hypothetical situation, I know it is not likely to be true, I am not a scientist and am not pretending to be one, but if it were to be scientifically proven that they feel pain and think, what would be your opinions without just trying to sound high and mighty in front of the evil carnist.

[Anonymous No.6572273]

>>6572257
You're reading, but you aren't understanding. Your question has already been answered.

Just by existing we do inherent harm. It doesn't matter who you are, where you are, or what you do, this truth is near omnipresent. You cannot create without destroying, you cannot gain without losing, you cannot change without both. It comes down to making an informed and intelligent choice about how you exist and where you minimize harm done to others. Some people might just say this life ain't worth living, fail to come to any balance, and kill themselves. Some people would look at the whole and continue eating plants. Some people might find another food source, hopefully in the future, synthetic meat.

The biggest problem is we can't really meaningfully define life. We don't understand consciousness, and we don't even understand ourselves relative to our universe. We don't know what makes anything tick and we're confined to a certain scale, which forms a major limitation as far as our ability to comprehend and perceive much of anything. For all we know Earth is an organism with consciousness and self awareness, and we constitutes its equivalent of cells. The only approach is to control for this ambiguity using knowledge you are able to have.

Also, ask yourself what makes humans mean more than any other animal. Really ask yourself. Your own answer says it all.
>yada yada you cannot change my views about meat
Also take a look at this statement above, it is your's. You only like natural law when it works the way you want it to, which is why most vegans will ignore your questions and you in general. It's banal.

[Anonymous No.6572275]

>>6572257

>But I nor the majority of the human race wants to do that

That's too bad though, huh? The environmental/sustainability issue alone is enough to topple the widespread consumption of meat in the future

>I am a human who eats meats and vegetables
>we like meat and have evolved to be meat eaters, you aren't going to devolve our species with some hippie bullshit.

I think you enjoy the idea of meat eating so much and the idea that you're some kind of badass superpredator that you've romanticized meat eating in a way that doesn't let you see it for what it really is. You, as part of the human race, are primarily a plant eater. If you choose to deviate from your species' genetically preferred food, you increase your risk of diet related diseases, from heart disease, to cancer, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, etc. You're an ape that wishes it was a lion.

>I would like a real response about the hypothetical situation

Alright, in a hypothetical world where plants are conscious beings with sentience on the level of animals, it would still be the path of least suffering to eat them in favor of animals, which require many times more plants to feed them before we eat them.

Now what about the non-hypothetical world we're currently living in where animals are sentient and you can make an effort to avoid killing them?

[Anonymous No.6572279]

>>6571036
>linking images on an imageboard
Who let the retards in?

[Anonymous No.6572300]

>>6572275
>i am tard

[Anonymous No.6572350]

>>6572273
Sorry I've pretty much lost interest, you are too far out there for me.

>>6572275
Thanks for answering my question.

To answer yours, I guess I am too caught up pretending to be a lion to stop consuming meat.

I do support that animals are treated more humanely, I do not like excessive suffering but they must be farmed and slaughtered for food. I'm going to bed good night.

[Anonymous No.6572362]

>>6572350
>Sorry I've pretty much lost interest, you are too far out there for me.
Story of my life. Likewise, it cripples my own ability to (directly) learn from others. A lot is lost in translation, and it becomes more a conversation with myself.

Good night.

[Anonymous No.6572443]

>>6570295
Lab-grown meat still requires harvesting stem cells from animals, so on a large market scale veganism is still pretty fucking relevant.

[Anonymous No.6572447]

>>6572443
IPS cell lines.

[Anonymous No.6572896]

>>6570039
>vegan meat replacement products taste good! all of my vegan friends agree so it's obviosuly true!

[Anonymous No.6572919]

>>6570687
this is the best bait post i've seen in ages

[Anonymous No.6573222]

I've asked this before, and I'll say it again. Why is no one interested in neu5gc?

People who want to feel good eating meat will argue either way, might as well bring out actual research instead of just saying meat or animal fats is just "unhealthy", ecologically negative, inefficient, moral arguments, etc.

They don't care. They're already selfish in some way. The younger ones think their body is more durable than it is and get off on the idea of being part of not just a species, but THE species. Top dog, all that. Hopefully at best you plant the seeds. I just don't understand why it's quite literally consistently only me who brings this up when it's among the most presently relevant and substantial literature available.

[Anonymous No.6573230]

Nigga you know im allah bout that falafel

[Anonymous No.6574772]

>>6572150
There is no gelatin in the gel cup. Snack Pack gels also have no gelatin. And some others but I'm not gonna type them all out. It surprised me too when I found out not all popular "Jello" had gelatin in it.

It takes a while I guess to find out what good vegan food is. Unfortunately I think a lot of the crappy stuff is still on the shelves solely from first-time consumers. There are definitely some awesome vegan products though. Just have to sort through a bit of crap. It kinda makes me mad that they bother selling stuff like the waxy carboardy vegan cheeses because it makes people think it's all like that when vegans who have been vegan more than a year don't even eat those products, and there are actually good vegan cheeses that no one notices because there are too many crappy ones to sort through.

Also I wish so badly they had vegan buffets here. I guess the closest thing we have to that is the salad bar at Whole Foods... But man if there was a "homestyle" vegan buffet with pasta and mashed potatoes and gravy and tacos and assorted desserts that would be like going to Disneyland.

Someone needs to do this.

[Anonymous No.6574778]

>>6573230
If more vegetarian food tasted as good as this I wouldn't hate them so much.

[Anonymous No.6574790]

>>6572896
Actually numerous meat eaters have told me they love Gardein, without me talking about it or anything related. Then my very skeptical and negative family have said every vegan food I've given them was good and non-distinguishable or better than the alternative disgusting animal product they usually consume. Except for nutritional yeast and these Tofurky hot dogs that were expired so I'm not sure if that had something to do with it or not but I agree they aren't the best, but they're cheap and have lots of protein and are super easy to throw together so I buy them sometimes for when I'm lazy.

Anyway yeah I've turned people vegan through my cooking. Not everyone is a skilled vegan cook though so a lot of people retardedly think a bland meal is representative of veganism as a whole when you would never do the same with a bland omnivorous meal. You're just ignorant.

[Anonymous No.6574811]

>>6573222
I'm interested in it. Must have missed your comment. But there's endless research showing the harmful effects of animal products and the arguments about health, no matter how many studies you give a meat eater, will always be a huge fucking waste of time because they literally can't admit they don't know everything and maybe they were wrong about animal products being good for them. It's just sad. Honestly the best way to get people to open their eyes is through food. Most people really don't give a shit about anything, not animals, not their health, not future generations, not their own environment, not human rights violations, not even feces coating their food. I hate that I'm saying this because I really hate pessimists who pretend to be realists but this is coming from someone who has spent 5 years figuratively and literally begging people to care about anything at all other than being able to thoughtlessly purchase any convenience food they see.

[Anonymous No.6574887]

>>6566459
>>6569708
This. I used to be a vegan and I would definitely eat girls out on many occasions. If you don't find vaginas sexy then you're gay. Sorry friend.

[Anonymous No.6575828]

>>6565543

>Implying being vegan is positive.

>Being vegan for the animals.
You have a problem with eating animals, just not seeing animals being forced into working in, for example, a guatemalan mine so that you can have your smartphone.

>Being vegan for the nature.
You have a problem with eating animals because hurr durr the enviroment, but you have no problem driving a car, buying luxury electronics like headphones, smartphones or computers.

>Everyone should be vegan.
And in a utopian world everyone would be nice. However, i would like to see any vegan telling Mogambe and his Ugandan tribe that they should keep starving and not eat the cow they have planned to slaughter.

Being a vegan is a sign of slight retardation and if you just eat vegan food "because it's good and meat tastes bad", you obviously have shitty tastebuds and you're a picky eater.

[Anonymous No.6575832]

>>6575828
*tips autism*

[Anonymous No.6575833]

>>6575828
All the anal anguish veganism produces is just further proof eating meat is morally wrong.

[Anonymous No.6575839]

>>6575832
>>6575833

Can't come up with a logical and reasonable argument and decides to try and be edgy. Your parents probably fed you a vegan diet when you we're kids, so i don't blame you for your lacking intelligence.

[Anonymous No.6575841]

>>6575839
*autism intensifies*

[Anonymous No.6575851]

>>6570711
>To me, a cow or a pig is barely a step above plants as far as sentience goes.
Why? Pigs are smart as fuck. Smarter than a dog. As smart as a human toddler. Cows aren't as smart but they clearly feel emotion anyway.

[Anonymous No.6575858]

>>6575851
Maybe....maybe...but a human toddler won't eat you if the opportunity arises. A pig will. Down with swine.

[Anonymous No.6575862]

>>6572275
>You, as part of the human race, are primarily a plant eater.

I don't care what issue you're pretending to fight for, It's not okay to lie on the internet.

http://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
http://authoritynutrition.com/7-evidence-based-health-reasons-to-eat-meat/
http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health

[Anonymous No.6575899]

>>6572896
I think Quorn and Tofurkey sausages taste great, personally. But then again I was raised on processed meat products like chicken patties and hot dogs, which already have non-meat fillers and flavors. Meat was never important to me and it's weird how everyone centers their diet, or their life, around it.

[Anonymous No.6575905]

>>6574811
>I hate that I'm saying this because I really hate pessimists who pretend to be realists but this is coming from someone who has spent 5 years figuratively and literally begging people to care about anything at all other than being able to thoughtlessly purchase any convenience food they see.
the truth

our fundamental laziness is astounding but at the same time exactly what I'd expect, and optimal from an evolutionary perspective. Even I can't escape it. Sucks bein a thoughtless machine.

[Anonymous No.6575931]

[Anonymous No.6575933]

>>6575828
The "find something hypocritical to invalidate everything" argument. Typical.

There's nothing wrong with attempting to lessen one's impact on the environment. One area at a time. Food is a good area because we all gotta eat, multiple times a day.

[Anonymous No.6576164]

>>6565543
tacobell uses lard to make their tortillas and beans.

[Anonymous No.6576170]

>>6576164
>beans made from lard
You sound like a food authority, please tell me more.

[Anonymous No.6576190]

>>6576170
Unless the picture meant black beans, their refried beans use either lard or beef tallow. taco bueno uses beef tallow they drain off from cooking their ground beef.

[Anonymous No.6576340]

>>6575828
I actually do have a problem driving a car. I take the bus or ride my bike... And the vegans I work for have a solar powered car...

I don't own a smart phone but yeah I kinda need a phone. And yeah definitely need a computer but I bought this one before I was aware of any issues but luckily it's HP I guess. http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-information/environment/index.html?jumpid=ex_r138_us/en/any/corp/energy#.VXSnKEYRR-w

Please let me know if you know of an even better company for electronics or phones.

I'm not even gonna attempt to address the other...stuff...you said, because it would just blow things up further and it's not worth it.

[Anonymous No.6576347]

>>6576164
Since when? Last time I checked it didn't say that on their ingredients list for those. And yes I've checked multiple times.

[Anonymous No.6576355]

>>6576170
are you kidding?

[Anonymous No.6576362]

>>6571708
>"therefore their existence doesn't matter in the slightest bit and we can treat them however we want."
Is there something wrong with this either? Your example doesn't make sense either.

>Killing them for your culinary pleasure is a pretty fucked up thing to do
No it's not.

[Anonymous No.6576371]

>>6576362
>Is there something wrong with this either?
It implies you have no compassion at all just because you believe you're superior. You can have SOME compassion. Not none.

[Anonymous No.6576376]

>>6576371
This isn't an issue of superiority/inferiority. I just don't understand how I am supposed to emphasize with something which is definitively not human. In fact I claim that people only feel empathy for animals to the extent that those people anthropomorphize them.

[Anonymous No.6576382]

>>6576376
Typo:
>empathize
In other words, I believe that humans can only feel empathy for those things which they can somehow view as being human.

[Anonymous No.6576389]

>>6576376
I swear it gets harder and harder for me to tell if people are vegans satirizing meat eaters or if people are actually possibly this obnoxious and stupid. lol.

[Anonymous No.6576391]

>>6576389
Nice argument, bro. You sure showed him.

[Anonymous No.6576395]

this seems relevant

[Anonymous No.6576397]

>>6576391
I was supposed to argue that? lmao.

[Anonymous No.6576399]

>>6576376
Why do you feel empathy for humans? Because they think and feel. Well, so do animals. Are you a christfag who believes only man is made in god's image and god put animals here for our use? You are just a slightly smarter animal compared to the other animals on this planet.

[Anonymous No.6576401]

>>6576389
>lol
stupid cunt.

[Anonymous No.6576403]

>>6576397
Typical lazy vegan fascist. If you can't say anything coherent then you're just proving how stupid you are. I'm surprised you even figured out how to post on a Tahitian wholesale food vendors board.

[Anonymous No.6576407]

>>6576399
>Well, so do animals
No, they don't.

[Anonymous No.6576410]

>>6576407
You'd have to actively ignore evidence to believe this. You think a dog can't feel pain or get scared? What you smokin mate?

[Anonymous No.6576419]

>>6576410
They don't feel pain or get scared in the same way that people do. I only empathize with people who feel similarly to me (read: most humans). We have no evidence that dogs, pigs, lobsters, etc. experience pain the same way we do and that their reactions are anything more than reflexes. Therefore I'm not concerned with killing them for food.

[Anonymous No.6576450]

>>6576419
What evidence would possibly convince you? Animals can't talk. An alien who does not speak your language may also say your reactions are merely reflexes. Guess what, they'd be fucking right. You're not special, buddy.

[Anonymous No.6576456]

>>6576450
I'm not claiming that humans are special. I just don't see any reason why we should feel morally obligated to not eat animals. And as far as aliens go, we can figure that out when we meet them, buddy.

[Anonymous No.6576457]

>>6576419
By that logic, you have no evidence other human beings feel pain or emotion either.

[Anonymous No.6576463]

>>6576457
Yes I do. I act certain ways when I feel and think certain things, and I can see people around me doing similar things in similar situations. Therefore I can conclude that they think and feel the same things I do, and if I asked them they would tell me "I'm mad" or "I'm confused". Etc.

[Anonymous No.6576469]

>>6576457
And also, just to "go there", you have no real argument anything you do is beyond mere reflex.

Really, what do you think, you're magic or something? If you believe the universe has an objective basis, you're just as much a machine as anything, or anyone, else. What makes your mechanical reflexes different?

These arguments stem either from your age, a need to justify, or outright stupidity. I feel sorry for the other anon, I'm familiar with their mindset, but unlike them, I won't stick around and entertain you. Just hope our impending ecological either kills you or teaches a very important lesson.

[Anonymous No.6576471]

>>6576456
Because the difference between humans and non-human animals is miniscule. You only disagree because you are trapped in a human perspective.

[Anonymous No.6576475]

>>6576469
ecological collapse*

>>6576463
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind
You aren't really using yours for much.

[Anonymous No.6576481]

Vegan sweets are alright.

Everything else tastes like dirt.

[Anonymous No.6576482]

>>6576469
I know for a fact that I think and have an intellect. If you are actually in doubt as to whether you have this same capacity, you probably don't. Hate to break it to you this way, kid.

[Anonymous No.6576485]

>>6576463
Your powers of observation are poor if you don't notice similar thought patterns in animals. Never had a pet?

[Anonymous No.6576487]

>>6576471
It's hard to argue that the difference between animals and humans is minuscule. I don't see any animals reading or building civilizations. There's obviously a profound difference between people and animals; I think you're just ignoring this for the sake of your own argument.

[Anonymous No.6576493]

>>6576485
I've had plenty of pets. My powers of observation are strong enough to understand that my pets don't think and feel in the same way I do. I think you're the one who isn't self-aware enough to realize when you see "human" behaviors in animals that it's actually an illusion.

[Anonymous No.6576505]

>>6576487
I'm mostly talking about the ability to feel pain, to suffer, and generally want to continue living. I can use my theory of mind to know that animals share these characteristics with me. Human markers of intelligence just add a bunch of bullcrap on top of these basic animal qualities. Enough bullcrap that you're not even aware of the instincts that drive your every thought.

I'm curious, is it okay to eat a baby or a retard who's practically a vegetable?

[Anonymous No.6576513]

>>6576493
I could similarly say you allow yourself to ignore obvious evidence because you need to protect yourself from guilt. Anyway, if I can't change your opinion then I can't.

[Anonymous No.6576514]

>>6565543
unless you live in a hole in the ground eating grass avoiding animal products is unavoidable. vegans are only vegans because they enjoy being self righteous douchbags.

the proof is in this thread.

[Anonymous No.6576517]

>>6576487
-Animals have forms of language and passing on information
-Many animals build structures
-The idea that there is a profound difference is via your limited perspective and a very narrow spectrum of data you're drawing from which you've mistaken for the whole.
-You cannot see functions of yourself that are scarcely different from other animals.
-You've obviously never been to Africa. It's like a mirror, it's where part of us still belongs.

You know nothing about ecology. You know nothing about neuroscience. You know nothing about any of the evolutionary models describing the difference between us and our chimp cousins, much less anything deeper. Know what a mosaic pattern is? Know what dendritic spines are? Know how we got such a high neuron count? I doubt it. You barely know yourself, much less any other species. It is no surprise you fail to compare properly.

Try learning a bit before believing you have an opinion worth much of anything. Even without any of the above, this was all apparent to me as a young child. I don't know what your deal is, but there is something very sad about it. Hope you find it possible to expand your mind, eventually. Or like I said, be put out of your misery when ecological collapse hits. That's just nature for ya.

[Anonymous No.6576526]

>>6576505
So you believe that humans are glorified animals and that there's no use for human intelligence and nothing really spectacular about it. Why don't you go live in the woods and just make grunts and shouts instead of speaking, then? I bet you'd start eating animals in no time.

And if you need to construct a theory of mind just to understand other organisms, you're out of touch with reality.

[Anonymous No.6576529]

>>6576493
>They don't think and feel the same
>Because they're a different species
>Therefore they don't have feelings and their fear and cries of pain don't matter when I put them in the microwave.

[Anonymous No.6576537]

>>6576517
You sound a little mad. I guess I'd be mad too if I spent so much time on a post that basically amounts to waving around logical fallacies and completely irrelevant knowledge around to compensate for your micropenis. You've totally failed to explain why we should feel morally obligated to not eat animals. That's the sad truth, and there's nothing you can do about it.

(I thought you said you were leaving this thread too? Whatever happened to that?)

[Anonymous No.6576539]

>>6570752
Done it. It was a pig with a rifle and I hoisted up for blood letting afterwards. It isn't as distressing as most people imagine - it was easier than when I used to have to kill rats and I turn into a blubbering wreck when I see a cat hurt.
Has made me more into a nose-to-tail eater though - writing down what you've eaten so you distribute your consumption. Plus meat is a 4 days a week thing for me, I'm pseudo vegan on the other days (I'll use meat stock for example but no solid meat).

Back to the original question - Tarka Dhal is one of my fave things ever.

[Anonymous No.6576553]

I have never read anything so cunty

[Anonymous No.6576556]

>>6576529
Yeah, that's pretty much the gist of it, except I don't microwave live animals. You have a sick imagination.

[Anonymous No.6576560]

>>6565860
>Cow tit juice is fucking terrible for you.
Proof you don't know a damn thing you're talking about

[Anonymous No.6576565]

>>6576526
>you believe that humans are glorified animals
We ARE animals, you silly billy bible-thumper

>that there's no use for human intelligence
It's a thing that evolved via passive processes because it helped us acquire more resources than those other animals who didn't quite get there. So it's useful to us, but in a cosmic ultimate sense?

Intelligence is nice but I'm not gonna assign much meaning to it. I still see lower animals as the descendants of my ancestors, so they're like my family too. My family that needs special care because it doesn't know better, like a baby.

[Anonymous No.6576573]

>>6576537
-There is no such thing as moral obligation. There is however such a thing as honesty and doing what you ought to within your own context. To frame anything as a moral obligation is useless. You've repeatedly had people explain from a number of angles why your ideas are broken, and where you're lacking.
-I actually know quite a bit about heuristics, cognitive biases. Tell me more about these fallacies I've committed, be careful not to say anything fallacious yourself.
>and there's nothing you can do about it.
Mostly correct. We're machines. Whether you like it or not, you and I, right now, are connected. You are spurring actions and reaction in me, I am doing the same for you. I don't believe there is any affordance to tap that would change you.

Also, just for the hell of it. That post took me around a minute. You show no real thought or effort so I'm not paying much attention to the conversation either. Just hammer something out and post.
Penis is also ~6 inches btw. No micro here, just right. :^)

[Anonymous No.6576574]

>>6576565
>My family that needs special care because it doesn't know better, like a baby.
How patronizing. Are you going to go out into the forest and keep animals from hurting each other, too?

[Anonymous No.6576578]

>>6576556
Why not? It's fun, and not like it matters. Can just get another.

[Anonymous No.6576583]

>>6576574
Nah, because I know that would do more harm that good. I really wish pets didn't exist, for example. But I do have pets already and I'd never hurt them. I try to give them a nice life. Related to the topic, buying meat gives money to people who are actively hurting captive animals, so I don't buy it.

[Anonymous No.6576584]

>>6576565
>Intelligence is nice but I'm not gonna assign much meaning to it.
Probably because you can't assign much meaning to it even if you tried.

Intelligence is relative. You cannot be intelligent without something to be intelligent about. We can't properly assess the whole, and we might not ever be able to.

[Anonymous No.6576590]

>>6576573
>-There is no such thing as moral obligation. There is however such a thing as honesty and doing what you ought to within your own context. To frame anything as a moral obligation is useless.

That doesn't make sense. What's wrong with eating animals then? Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

>You've repeatedly had people explain from a number of angles why your ideas are broken, and where you're lacking.

Seems like just you ATM. And for the record no one here has any good arguments for why we shouldn't eat meat.

>Mostly correct. We're machines. Whether you like it or not, you and I, right now, are connected. You are spurring actions and reaction in me, I am doing the same for you. I don't believe there is any affordance to tap that would change you.

This is intellectual diarrhea. You sound like a 17-year old who just read The Selfish Gene for the first time.

>Also, just for the hell of it. That post took me around a minute. You show no real thought or effort so I'm not paying much attention to the conversation either. Just hammer something out and post.

You're obviously trying really, really hard, but you have no skill in defending any kind of argument successfully or convincingly so you chalk it up to "people are machines, no such thing as morals, durr durr" and spout some meaningless bullshit you picked up in Philosophy 101. You're sad.

[Anonymous No.6576593]

>>6576560
There's a reason the majority of human beings get diarrhea from it. Adults don't need milk. We don't need tremendous amounts of protein designed to support the growth of a 1 ton bovine. And we certainly don't need residues from growth hormone.

[Anonymous No.6576595]

>>6576583
>I really wish pets didn't exist
>But I do have pets already
You are such a hypocrite it literally hurts my brain.

>I don't believe in slavery but I already have slaves so I'm going to keep them and give them a "nice life"

[Anonymous No.6576613]

>>6576595
Hey man, if there's animals who are gonna be put down at the pound, I think I can give them a better life than that. But it'd be better if animals had never been domesticated at all. But that's not how it is. My adoption of discarded pets does not in any way increase the number of pets that are produced.

[Anonymous No.6576620]

>>6576613
I'm not a PETA member, though. PETA believes death is better than any form of slavery, and so they force death upon all pets. I thought about it and decided I don't agree. If I was my pet my first priority would be to continue living.

[Anonymous No.6576630]

>>6576593
>There's a reason the majority of human beings get diarrhea from it.
Yes, because they don't have the lactase enzyme, so the bacteria in our gut metabolizes it instead, creating excess gas. It has nothing to do with whether or not it's good for you.
>Adults don't need milk.
You don't need a lot of things.
>We don't need tremendous amounts of protein designed to support the growth of a 1 ton bovine.
Calves drink around three gallons a day (mirin dat bulk). Humans, with maybe a few extreme exceptions, don't drink nearly as much.
>And we certainly don't need residues from growth hormone.
rBST-free milk is widely available and there is no evidence milk from cows treated with rBST is harmful.

[Anonymous No.6576631]

>>6576590
>people are machines, no such thing as morals, durr durr
what is your argument against this, though? resistance is futile. If you admit thre is something "more" to your own personal existence as a machine, you are delusional to not extend this to creatures less intelligent than yourself. There is no invisible dividing line.

[Anonymous No.6576635]

>>6576590
>That doesn't make sense. What's wrong with eating animals then? Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
You have a choice. You always have a choice, there are no obligations. Even if you've got a gun to your head. Wrongness assigned to consumption of animals is a different topic altogether, don't muddle and confuse things into one. It's shit for both of us.

>And for the record no one here has any good arguments for why we shouldn't eat meat.
-Health
-Ecological implications
-Economic effects
-Inefficiency
-Moral aspects
Again, people have been through this with you. That I have to as well is a bit ridiculous. Got a question to ask, as it.

>This is intellectual diarrhea.
Then argue against it, and explain why. You're the one who keeps insisting on arguments, might want to put your money where your mouth is.

>You're obviously trying really, really hard
I wouldn't say so, but tell yourself whatever you want. I've got an awful headache, I'm cooking, doing stuff in other tabs, and refining a scrip I've been working on. This whole conversation and topic is some small component I flick back to and check occasionally.

If you were interesting to talk to, that'd be a different matter. Your rejection of philosophy shows why you have such glaring deficits. But in a base sense, I'm just not feeling like any thought or effort goes into anything you say. I saw this coming, probably should've left before I felt any kind of investment

[Anonymous No.6576638]

>>6576631
I can't argue against what you're saying because you are not presenting any kind of coherent viewpoint. Make some kind of actual claim and then we can discuss it, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.6576641]

>>6576630
>It has nothing to do with whether or not it's good for you.
It's a sign that it's unnecessary and foreign, but sure, it probably won't kill you or anything.

>Humans, with maybe a few extreme exceptions, don't drink nearly as much.
If you put a lid on your consumption, sure. But some people down a lot of it because they think they need it for calcium, without knowing the interaction between excess protein and said calcium.

[Anonymous No.6576648]

>>6570320
I had a friend who did that, it was fun to mess with him because he was hungry all the time and never even scored.

[Anonymous No.6576652]

>>6576638
If "humans are machines" is not coherent to you, you have bigger problems than all the neu5gc consumption will ever cause you.

Why do you think we can engineer anything? Why do you think we can make gmos, computers, cars. Why do you think science and chemistry works? Try extrapolating that before you give me any "intellectual diarrhea". Might want to think about how diarrhea works as well.

I get it if you want to argue against a "reductionist" (using that term loosely) reality. I get it if you aren't into determinism, or if you're into dualism and think consciousness and animacy transcends the material, or whatever the fuck. It's just a hypocritical mess to call anyone else incoherent when you can't even explain your own beliefs much less interpret other people.

[Anonymous No.6576654]

>>6576635
>Wrongness assigned to consumption of animals is a different topic altogether

So why the fuck are you arguing that we shouldn't eat animals then?

>-Health, -Ecological implications, -Economic effects, -Inefficiency, -Moral aspects

None of these problems demands that we stop eating animals in order to address them.

>Again, people have been through this with you. That I have to as well is a bit ridiculous. Got a question to ask, as it.

Now you're just being lazy. I haven't seen any of this.

>Then argue against it, and explain why. You're the one who keeps insisting on arguments, might want to put your money where your mouth is.

It's self-evident. It's hard to explain something like this to someone who clearly has no experience making coherent claims and not being self-contradictory.

>I wouldn't say so, but tell yourself whatever you want. I've got an awful headache, I'm cooking, doing stuff in other tabs, and refining a scrip I've been working on. This whole conversation and topic is some small component I flick back to and check occasionally.

So you spend little time and effort on your posts (which is obvious, btw) and then feel the need to explain this and justify it? Clearly you are just trying to distract from the fact that you have failed to display any kind of intellectual substance.

>If you were interesting to talk to, that'd be a different matter.

Which is why you're spending so much time and effort actually talking to me.

>Your rejection of philosophy shows why you have such glaring deficits.

What does this even mean? I'm not "rejecting" philosophy, I'm demanding it. And so for you've got shit to show me.

>But in a base sense, I'm just not feeling like any thought or effort goes into anything you say. I saw this coming, probably should've left before I felt any kind of investment

Funny, I get the same feeling too.

[Anonymous No.6576657]

May aswell take this opportunity to ask something that has been bugging me for a while, what's the deal with vegans hating honey and beekeeping? Beekeepers go to very great lengths to keep their bees healthy and actually help them make it through the winter, expand and maintain their colonies and not get killed by toxic polen and they only take the excess honey that they store for the winter in order to survive it. I get the whole not wanting to eat chicken/eggs because despite being an onmivore I too do not approve of the way the mass meat industry treats the animals but the bee thing just seems uneducated and mindless hate.

[Anonymous No.6576658]

>>6576638
maybe you are the dumb one for not understanding what I'm saying. maybe ask more specific questions, sport.

To dumb it down for ya, you're basically insisting that humans have souls while other animals *obviously* do not. They are a pile of instinct and reaction, but you're not because you have the evidence of your own personal thoughts. The assumption means you're presumptuous and possibly a dumbass.

[Anonymous No.6576660]

>>6576652
>I get it if you want to argue against a "reductionist" (using that term loosely) reality. I get it if you aren't into determinism, or if you're into dualism and think consciousness and animacy transcends the material, or whatever the fuck.

The problem is you haven't explained which one of these viewpoints you are arguing for. "Humans are machines" is not an argument and is practically meaningless. Pick an actual topic to discuss and then we can talk.

[Anonymous No.6576663]

>>6576658
>you're basically insisting that humans have souls while other animals *obviously* do not
Reading comprehension this stronk. I can't even

>The assumption means you're presumptuous and possibly a dumbass.
Nice argument.

[Anonymous No.6576667]

>>6576654
>So why the fuck are you arguing that we shouldn't eat animals then?
Because you implied you wouldn't eat another human being. You have empathy for humans.

Clearly you've got your own reasons why you think humans deserve that and nothing else does, but empathy for living things is a super simple concept.

[Anonymous No.6576672]

>>6576657
Honey is an animal product. Vegans don't eat animal products.

[Anonymous No.6576677]

>>6576663
I was just being cute with that second statement, but I know you need to be nit-picky to feel better about your argument.

[Anonymous No.6576678]

>>6576654
>So why the fuck are you arguing that we shouldn't eat animals then?
Because there isn't any such thing as obligation based on morality. And morality is superfluous here, especially when you're talking to your personality archetype. So we stick to functional and substantial things that cannot be argued without evidence, like what I mentioned below.

>None of these problems demands that we stop eating animals in order to address them.
Go on?

>Now you're just being lazy. I haven't seen any of this.
Scroll up. Empiricism is part of science.

>It's self-evident.
That's lazy. And self referential truths are throwaway unless you can explain why they're truly a base axiom you cannot resolve further.

>Clearly you are just trying to distract from the fact that you have failed to display any kind of intellectual substance.
Might want to take another look at the content of your own posts.

>What does this even mean? I'm not "rejecting" philosophy,
You might as well be. The rest of your posts show you don't really give much of a shit about how your world works, scientifically, empirically, or otherwise. Couple that with the philosophy 101 comments (which are on par with a snickering child, by the way), and you start to see some indications.

>Funny, I get the same feeling too.
Good. Maybe you'll run off and save us both the trouble.

[Anonymous No.6576686]

>>6576667
And I suppose you have reasons for not eating animals, then? Care to explain them? I'm acting from common sense, you seem to feel the need to bend logic to your own rules.

[Anonymous No.6576692]

>>6576660
I wouldn't think I'd have to. It's implicit.

Universe, at least on our scale, could be said to have a sense of granularity. Objects and their traits can be resolved to the sum of their parts. Even if this is not ultimately the case whatsoever in actuality, this is the way we treat it (along with a few other principles), and it works.

A machine is just a collection of parts that uses and transfers energy for work. We're a glob of actions and reactions to both intrinsic and extrinsic stimuli. That's what "humans are machines" refers to, we are no less mechanical than anything else.

[Anonymous No.6576696]

>>6576672
But they don't consume animal products has a political statement against the way animals are tread and not for dietary reasons. And without beekeepers bees actually have less chances of making it, colonies are established in random places and have little available holes that once they are occupied they will just leave everyone who hasn't been assigned one to die, their architectural skills are not that great and colony collapse is a common occurence in nature, winter is a harsh time where most of them die and they can't distinguish toxic polen from good polen and beekeepers provide them with everything they need and actually care for their health. It's not the same thing they do with chickens by putting them in cramped spaces and not allowing them to move around or cow slaughterhouses.

[Anonymous No.6576705]

>>6576686
I've already said, animals feel pain and emotions just like I do and I feel empathy. I know you don't believe that but it's clear to me that it's true. I think you might be in denial about this. I don't ascribe such massive importance to the ability to read and other such intelligence perks. I see animals as individuals, just like other humans. It is not common sense to feel no empathy for animals, it's rather sociopathic actually.

[Anonymous No.6576718]

>>6576678
>Because there isn't any such thing as obligation based on morality. And morality is superfluous here, especially when you're talking to your personality archetype. So we stick to functional and substantial things that cannot be argued without evidence, like what I mentioned below.

The problem is you have nothing functional or substantial to talk about. Please tell me why we shouldn't eat animals. Can you answer a very simple question like that? Can you?

>personality archetype
What on earth does this even mean?

>Go on?
No, you tell me how these problems cannot be solved except by not eating animals. The burden of proof is on you.

>Scroll up. Empiricism is part of science.
It is. My point is that none of the previous arguments (of which there are very, very few) make any sense at all. If you're so desperate to change my mind then you can explain my very simple question.

>That's lazy. And self referential truths are throwaway unless you can explain why they're truly a base axiom you cannot resolve further.
>B-b-ut muh axioms
People who cannot argue, by definition, cannot understand when their arguments are wrong or unconvincing. You are ample proof of this.

>Might want to take another look at the content of your own posts.
>I'm rubber, you're glue
Once again, QED.

>You might as well be. The rest of your posts show you don't really give much of a shit about how your world works, scientifically, empirically, or otherwise. Couple that with the philosophy 101 comments (which are on par with a snickering child, by the way), and you start to see some indications.
And you do? You sure haven't showed me.

>Good. Maybe you'll run off and save us both the trouble.
I'm here all night, the question is when are you going to shape up and stop shitposting?

In case you need a little extra help with your reading comprehension, the only question you have to answer is "Why should we not eat animals?" Can you answer that?

[Anonymous No.6576720]

>>6576696
I think it's a forced-servitude thing. We put them at risk against their will.

[Anonymous No.6576729]

>>6576692
Clearly you have no grasp of ontology or how to present an argument that doesn't make 1000 little presumptions.

>>6576705
Most people feel the same way I do. Do you really believe you live in a society of lunatics?

[Anonymous No.6576730]

>>6576641
>It's a sign that it's unnecessary and foreign, but sure, it probably won't kill you or anything.
This is literally every food.

[Anonymous No.6576747]

>>6576720
Well, that's a bit tricky because they can't actually give their consent but they actually benefit from the process instead of being hurt and the only thing that is taken from them is excess honey.
>We put them at risk against their will.
I don't follow, how are they put at risk?
And thanks for indulging me, I do not look to criticize anyone or mock I'm just really curious about this because unlike the other industries they claim to hurt animals, beekeeping actually helps them.

[Anonymous No.6576751]

>>6576729
>calling me crazy
>that is your argument
Well, to say something concrete, if it was normal to treat animals as objects due to the belief that they have no feelings, there would not exist animal cops who go around looking for abuse cases. Nor animal shelters. inb4 they're crazy too. Most people do not want to see an animal brutally killed because they imagine its FEELINGS. But if it's out of sight out of mind, they can handle it.

[Anonymous No.6576761]

>>6576751
Most people don't think killing animals for food is wrong. Do you?

[Anonymous No.6576769]

>>6576718
>Can you answer a very simple question like that? Can you?
I'm not going to write you an essay on economics, how ecology works, biochemistry, etc. Ask roughly targeted questions, receive an answer. That's how it's going to work, and I've already told you why.

>What on earth does this even mean?
Google the involved words.

>No, you tell me how these problems cannot be solved except by not eating animals. The burden of proof is on you.
Sorry bud, you're the one who just made the claim. It is (also) on you.

The burden of proof goes both ways. You cannot claim something is false without making a claim yourself, which must be backed up. The only honest and correct way to handle it is to say you don't know or don't believe for x y z reason.

>People who cannot argue, by definition, cannot understand when their arguments are wrong or unconvincing. You are ample proof of this.
>You are ample proof of this.
Lol.

>Once again, QED.
Feel free to ask a question at any time. I'll make it easier on you, if you can't figure a question then choose from any of the macro categories I defined a few posts above. Enough dickin' around.

>the only question you have to answer is "Why should we not eat animals?" Can you answer that?
You keep saying this, might want to take a step back.

>Clearly you have no grasp of ontology or how to present an argument that doesn't make 1000 little presumptions.
Make your own statement. Everything you say is a bunch of fluff.

[Anonymous No.6576778]

>>6576747
>they actually benefit from the process instead of being hurt and the only thing that is taken from them is excess honey.

Some people would argue that it doesn't matter if the bees benefit. Slavery is slavery. After all the slave master can easily claim his slaves are happier that way. Happens all the time. The evaluation always ends up being biased in order to preserve the slavery situation.

>how are they put at risk?
Lots of bees die due to the stress of beekeeping. Colony Collapse Disorder anyone? We forced that on them. We forced them to eat from plants that had been sprayed with dangerous chemicals. We truck them across the country, freaking them out and overheating them. etcetera.

In the hypothetical situation that even more bees would die without our intervention, those deaths could be deemed morally superior because they were not due to our willing action. We did not murder, we let die.

[Anonymous No.6576784]

>>6576761
I think the more common reason is "it's nature" or "God says it's okay". Not "animals are literally robots and I am not". If the latter reason was the reason, there would be no squeamishness over seeing animals actually be killed. Or tortured in slaughterhouses. Such videos create emotional response in many. Enough that there are bills on the ballot to try to give animals more space in their little cages.

[Anonymous No.6576787]

>>6576784
>Enough that there are bills on the ballot to try to give animals more space in their little cages.
Lol.

[Anonymous No.6576793]

>>6576769
I asked you one very simple question and you can't answer it. AND you acknowledge that you can't. I'm done here. gg no re

[Anonymous No.6576802]

>>6576778
>morally superior
Up to this point, your bait was well disguised. 8/10 for making me reply.

[Anonymous No.6576803]

>>6576793
Bye anon. And good riddance. Only thing I'm left curious about is if you were trolling, or here to genuinely play devil's advocate.

Either way. Too bad you couldn't ask a simple question. Hope you meet someone who's willing to play things on your terms.

[Anonymous No.6576806]

>>6576803
he did you fucking tard
>"Why should we not eat animals?"

[Anonymous No.6576807]

>>6576778
>After all the slave master can easily claim his slaves are happier that way. Happens all the time.
People do that with their "inside cats" all the time. They really just believe a potentially longer life locked up is better than a life with any risk. It is a fear of loss and the unknowns of life.

[Anonymous No.6576808]

>>6576802
I'm just talking moral theory. I don't actually have much of an opinion on the rights of insects.

[Anonymous No.6576810]

vegan food is so fucking disgusting, it's seriously scary people make a lifestyle out of it

[Anonymous No.6576811]

>>6576778
Hmmm... I guess I get it now, despite the wrong usage of "slavery" (term doesn't apply to animals) and some of the things you claim are man made problems for the bees not being 100% true.

[Anonymous No.6576818]

>>6576807
I have mixed feelings about that, since if you adopt a cat in the city where the cat is very likely to be killed if you let it outside, what is the morally correct thing to do? To give it freedom would be almost like murdering it on purpose. We decide on a risk tipping point for our own children, too. Are you a good parent if you let your kid play in the street?

[Anonymous No.6576821]

>>6576803
>Just when I think I was out... they puuulll me back in

OK, I'm taking the bait

This was my simple question: Why should we not eat animals? I will literally take any answer at this point. If you refuse to answer I'll take it as evidence of your feeble-mindedness.

[Anonymous No.6576822]

>>6576811
>term doesn't apply to animals
If we're talking about animal rights, it does. The right to autonomy. It sounds silly because the concept is foreign atm.

[Anonymous No.6576839]

>>6576806
Too broad. Not going to type an essay.

@echo off
:Choice
echo [1] Health
echo [2] Ecological implications
echo [3] Economic effects
echo [4] Inefficiency
echo [5] Moral aspects
SET /p topic=
IF "%Topic%" NEQ "1" IF "%Topic%" NEQ "2" IF "%Topic%" NEQ "3" IF "%Topic%" NEQ "4" IF "%Topic%" NEQ "5" goto :Choice

cls

IF "%topic%" EQU "1" SET "Chosen=health"
IF "%topic%" EQU "2" SET "Chosen=ecological implications"
IF "%topic%" EQU "3" SET "Chosen=economic effects"
IF "%topic%" EQU "4" SET "Chosen=inefficiency"
IF "%topic%" EQU "5" SET "Chosen=moral aspects"

echo I have decided to ask about %Chosen%.
pause>nul

Save as .bat if on Windows. Run. Report result.

[Anonymous No.6576850]

>>6576821
It's inefficient and takes far more resources to produce meat than simply using those crops and that space to feed humans. The majority of crops grow go towards feeding livestock, and most of it is garbage quality (but highly subsidized) corn and soybean. The ecological impact is higher than simply adopting decent practices when growing crops.

It's unhealthy. neu5gc etc.

Economically it's a fucked up and broken industry with funds going to all the wrong places.

It's a mindless and braindead thing to do. We ought to have the good sense to outgrow it.

[Anonymous No.6576866]

>>6576839
I'm going to revise this. It should clear the console at a different point. No behavior difference.

@echo off
:Choice
echo [1] Health
echo [2] Ecological implications
echo [3] Economic effects
echo [4] Inefficiency
echo [5] Moral aspects
SET /p topic=
cls
IF "%Topic%" NEQ "1" IF "%Topic%" NEQ "2" IF "%Topic%" NEQ "3" IF "%Topic%" NEQ "4" IF "%Topic%" NEQ "5" goto :Choice

IF "%topic%" EQU "1" SET "Chosen=health"
IF "%topic%" EQU "2" SET "Chosen=ecological implications"
IF "%topic%" EQU "3" SET "Chosen=economic effects"
IF "%topic%" EQU "4" SET "Chosen=inefficiency"
IF "%topic%" EQU "5" SET "Chosen=moral aspects"

echo I have decided to ask about %Chosen%.
pause>nul

[Anonymous No.6576872]

>>6570720
yummy

[Anonymous No.6576874]

>>6576850
I wouldn't mind being vegan but it really doesn't seem optimal for health, in the end. But from that standpoint, only a small amount of meat is needed. Simply reducing our consumption by allowing the price of meat to naturally climb (no subsidies) would do a lot of environmental and animal rights related good.

[Anonymous No.6576878]

>>6576850
There's no reason to believe that the only way to address these problems is to stop eating meat. More efficient methods of agriculture/feeding livestock can always be developed and our economic system can always be tweaked. And as far as neu5gc/cancer goes the link is tenuous at best and there's no reason to believe that we should just stop eating meat.

Now, was that so hard?

[Anonymous No.6576888]

>>6576866
>being so autistic that you have to express yourself in code

[Anonymous No.6576902]

>>6576874
I'd prefer that everyone either had access to high quality meat, hunted for their own, or stopped. But that isn't apt to happen, even after ironing out issues with IPS cell lines (or developing better methods) and making "synthetic" met viable. the best case scenario is awareness and to cease this mad overconsumption. This is a very new thing and not shared by the majority of our history.

Neu5gc will be bad for you regardless. Fish and poultry has lower amounts, turkey being about the best it gets.

The following explains neu5gc, a bit about our history, and the effect of chronic (systemic) inflammation.

[History and background reading]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4026345/

[Carcinogenesis]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3928833/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2586336/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596253/

[Antibody generation]
http://jem.rupress.org/content/207/8/1637.full

I'm also very sick of Roundup Ready. It's a garbage idea and the financial motivation behind the engineering is obvious. Yeah dump that glyphosate on there, yum yum. Things like that are tied in.

[Anonymous No.6576918]

>>6576878
>There's no reason to believe that the only way to address these problems is to stop eating meat.
That's wrong. Ultimately, you just desire to eat meat and feel alright about it. That's it, that's all, and it's why I'm mainly the only one left talking to you.

Neu5gc has a mountain of evidence dating back to even the late 80's. It's a novel thing, given that there's a heavy overlap with multiple fields. Evolutionary biology it's highly relevant. Multiple disease pathology investigations it's relevant. This is quite atypical to have such a mass of shared interest and research, and the link is hardly "tenuous".

>>6576902
Anyway. I'm gone, that was my last post. Enjoy answers to questions you could have just asked a long time ago. Other things I'd rather do. If your intent was to troll or play devil's advocate, good job. 8/10.

[Anonymous No.6576924]

>>6576583
I wish holocaust wasn't true, but I still think it isn't. And I kill jews every day :)

[Anonymous No.6576936]

>>6576918
The burden of proof is on you. You're claiming that the only way to fix these problems is to stop eating animals. Care to give an explanation?

As far as neu5gc goes, it's not found in poultry and only in rare amounts in fish. Do you think we should stop eating these as well?

You might enjoy this paper as well: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25124893

>Anyway. I'm gone, that was my last post.
Sure it is buddy
>Enjoy answers to questions you could have just asked a long time ago
Not my fault you took so long to answer me

[Anonymous No.6576945]

>>6576918
I've done plenty of research on neu5gc. I think you are overestimating the "mountain" of evidence. Pray tell, are you actually a biologist by trade? Do you do research for a living?

[Anonymous No.6576962]

>>6571708
>" it ends up being "therefore their existence doesn't matter in the slightest bit and we can treat them however we want."
I find that most people don't actually endorse that line of thinking, it's just that they prioritize their nutrition over the animals but do not defend or enjoy the unjustified suffering of animals like killing them for sport.

[Anonymous No.6576982]

What bean curds are good apart from tofu?

[Anonymous No.6576995]

>>6576936
Poultry tends to have trace to low levels. Fish it varies. The reasons we shouldn't eat X organism overlap heavily in anyone with a coherent framework of beliefs, there is an obvious reason for this.

Your question answers itself , but yes, I do think we should just leave shit alone. So many of us pretend we've risen above natural laws around us, that we separated ourselves from the viciousness of nature. Maybe we ought to stop the double speak. We have no need for meat, in the ideal world, that which doesn't distinctly harm is not harmed by our own hands. We ought to meet this ideal to various degrees based on viability and context.

>You might enjoy this paper as well: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25124893
It's interesting, but I'd have to have the full text. Brings to mind convergent evolution and how hazy the timetable of these mutations actually is.

>Not my fault you took so long to answer me
Nor my fault you never really asked.

[Anonymous No.6577016]

>>6576945
I was thinking of going into a related field when I was somewhat younger, but things don't always work out. I've been doing "research" most of my life, but at this point I don't think I'm really suited for primary research, education, or direct involvement with any given field. I take an unrelenting armchair approach. I need to know what makes things tick.

Oh well. That's it for me. I really do have other things to do. Feel free to post some elaboration on your contradicting perspective, I'll read this thread later.

[Anonymous No.6577022]

>>6576995
>The reasons we shouldn't eat X organism overlap heavily in anyone with a coherent framework of beliefs, there is an obvious reason for this.

I don't understand. Even if there is a causal link between neu5gc and cancer, this is only a significant concern about red meat. If you want to say not to eat fish and poultry either, you'll need some kind of justification for not eating meat at all. You haven't given a coherent argument as to why we shouldn't be eating ANY meat (while somehow claiming that it should be obvious), and I strongly suspect you do not have a good reason beyond "feelings".

>So many of us pretend we've risen above natural laws around us, that we separated ourselves from the viciousness of nature.

Isn't veg*ism upheld as an example of how humans can rise above their barbaric animal nature? And yet you deny that this is the case?

>We have no need for meat, in the ideal world, that which doesn't distinctly harm is not harmed by our own hands.

How can you say this? You don't believe in moral obligations, by your own words.

[Anonymous No.6577031]

>>6577016
I suppose that's admirable. There's a lot you can only learn by going to grad school though. There is such a massive amount of information and knowledge about biology that you can only get a good "big picture" view by immersing yourself in the subject 24/7 for 5+ years (phd). You need to be around scientists, constantly reading research articles, doing experiments yourself, otherwise your understanding of biology will be fragmentary and based on hearsay/pop culture articles. Same goes for most STEM fields.

[Anonymous No.6577070]

>>6570237
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-xoXbhnFHY

[Anonymous No.6577076]

>>6577016
>I take an unrelenting armchair approach. I need to know what makes things tick.

see this is the fucking problem. people who have at best a cursory knowledge of a subject claiming to be an expert and talking about it as if they know everything. reddit-tier shitheads. you are the people fucking up this country. try getting a real education you sperglord. fuck you and everything you stand for. 2/10 yes i am mad

[Anonymous No.6577309]

>>6576493
Allow me to end this argument.

http://io9.com/5937356/prominent-scientists-sign-declaration-that-animals-have-conscious-awareness-just-like-us

[Anonymous No.6577321]

>>6577070
Okay, not that vegan man. At least, I hope to god there aren't any female vegans like him.

>>6576878
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfsT-qYeqGM&feature=player_embedded
Celebrated Cornell University professor T. Colin Campbell Phd, presents the overwhelming evidence showing that animal protein is one of the most potent carcinogens people are exposed to.

TMAO: A Toxic Substance Formed When You Eat Meat Can Make You... Dead Meat
http://www.forksoverknives.com/tmao-a-toxic-substance-formed-when-you-eat-meat-can-make-you-dead-meat/

Meat, dairy may be as detrimental to your health as smoking cigarettes, study says
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/meat-dairy-may-be-as-detrimental-to-your-health-as-smoking-cigarettes/

Vegan Blood Fights Cancer 8x Better
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/developing-an-ex-vivo-cancer-proliferation-bioassay/

Animal Protein and the Cancer Promoter IGF-1
http://nutritionfacts.org/2013/02/14/animal-protein-and-igf-1/

[Anonymous No.6577327]

>>6576878

Vegan diet in physiological health promotion. [Acta Physiol Hung. 1999] - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10943644

Due to measured levels of dioxin that exceed safety standards, the National Academy of Science has for years recommended that people avoid eating a diet rich in animal fats.
http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/hurtful-food-my-reaction-to-looking-at-an-oily-cheese-pizza.html

Change in quality of life and immune markers after a stay at a raw vegan institute: a pilot study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2486444/

The role of diet and physical activity in breast, colorectal, and prostate cancer survivorship: a review of the literature
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3251953/

Interindividual differences in response to plant-based diets: implications for cancer risk
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677005/

An impact of the diet on serum fatty acid and lipid profiles in Polish vegetarian children and children with allergy. [Eur J Clin Nutr. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21048771

Effects of a long-term vegetarian diet on biomarkers of antioxidant status and cardiovascular disease risk. [Nutrition. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15474873

Vegetarian diets and the incidence of cancer in a low-risk population. [Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929

Meat Consumption and Cancer Risk
http://www.cancerproject.org/survival/cancer_facts/meat.php

Red meat and colon cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558046

Study finds unsafe mercury levels in 84 percent of all fish
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57563739/study-finds-unsafe-mercury-levels-in-84-percent-of-all-fish/

[Anonymous No.6577329]

>>6576878

Study Points to New Culprit in Heart Disease
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/health/study-points-to-new-culprit-in-heart-disease.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

"Neu5Gc elicits an immune reaction that might contribute to a whole spectrum of human-specific diseases"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3346666/Mystery-of-the-meat-eaters-molecule.html

Restriction of meat, fish, and poultry in omnivores improves mood: a pilot randomized controlled trial
http://www.nutritionj.com/content/11/1/9/abstract

Harvard School of Public Health » milk is NOT the best source of calcium
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium-and-milk/

Eating less meat and dairy may help reduce osteoporosis risk, Cornell studies show.
http://news.cornell.edu/stories/1996/11/eating-less-meat-may-help-reduce-osteoporosis-risk

Milk--the promoter of chronic Western diseases
PMID: 19232475
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19232475

Dairy product, saturated fatty acid, and calcium intake and prostate cancer (PMID: 18398033)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18398033?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

Acne, dairy and cancer (PMID: 20046583)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2715202/?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_DiscoveryDbLinks&ordinalpos=1&tool=pubmed

Harvard study: Pastuerized milk from industrial dairies linked to cancer.
http://www.naturalnews.com/035081_pasteurized_milk_cancer_dairy.html

[Anonymous No.6577330]

>>6572209
Apes eat meat, we're more chimp than gorilla.

[Anonymous No.6577335]

>>6576878

Hormones in milk can be dangerous By Corydon Ireland
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/12.07/11-dairy.html

Cow's milk, every sip of cow's milk has virus in it; and pus and bacteria, powerful growth hormones, proteins that cause allergies, antibiotics, pesticides, fat cholesterol and dioxin -- now, which one of these things do you want in your body?
http://www.naturalnews.com/002684.html

Milk consumption: aggravating factor of acne and promoter of chronic diseases of Western societies
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19243483

Milk Consumption and Prostate Cancer
http://pcrm.org/health/health-topics/milk-consumption-and-prostate-cancer

Dairy Linked to Acne Development
http://www.pcrm.org/health/medNews/dairy-linked-to-acne-development

Understanding the Problems with Dairy Products
http://www.nutritionmd.org/nutrition_tips/nutrition_tips_understand_foods/dairy.html
1. Osteoporosis 2. Cardiovascular Disease 3. Cancer 4. Diabetes 5. Lactose Intolerance 6. Vitamin D Toxicity 7. Contaminants 8. Health Concerns of Infants and Children


Nutrient Density of Animal and Plant Foods:
http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/article17.aspx

Nutritional Update for Physicians: Plant-Based Diets (a summary)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

For more studies and information on plant based diets, check out this site:
http://plantbasedresearch.org/

[Anonymous No.6577336]

>>6576878

Facts and principles learned at the 39th Annual Williamsburg Conference on Heart Disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/
"There are in Roberts’ opinion 4 facts supporting the contention that atherosclerosis is a cholesterol problem: 1) Atherosclerosis is easily produced experimentally in herbivores (monkeys, rabbits) by giving them diets containing large quantities of cholesterol (egg yolks) or saturated fat (animal fat). Indeed, atherosclerosis is one of the easiest diseases to produce experimentally, but the recipient must be an herbivore. It is not possible to produce atherosclerosis in carnivores (tigers, lions, dogs, etc.). In contrast, it is not possible to produce atherosclerosis simply by raising a rabbit's blood pressure or blowing cigarette smoke in its face for an entire lifetime. 2) Atherosclerotic plaques contain cholesterol. 3) Societies with high average cholesterol levels have higher event rates (heart attacks, etc.) than societies with much lower average cholesterol levels. 4) When serum cholesterol levels (especially the low-density lipoprotein cholesterol [LDL-C] level) are lowered (most readily, of course, by statin drugs), atherosclerotic events fall accordingly and the lower the level, the fewer the events (“less is more”). Although most humans consider themselves carnivores or at least omnivores, basically we humans have characteristics of herbivores (Table (Table11)."

[Anonymous No.6577343]

>>6577321
>>6577327
>>6577329
>>6577335
>>6577336
Thanks for the links, but you haven't addressed whether killing animals is inherently wrong.

[Anonymous No.6577354]

I don't believe in an objective morality, so nothing is inherently right or wrong. That said, in my subjective morality, I don't care about suffering. I care about the ability of life to continue indefinitely, or, avoiding ecosystem collapse. That would mean a major retooling of our food system, including probably a massive reduction in animal products, but it wouldn't mean everyone would have to become vegan.

[Anonymous No.6577362]

>>6565543

>actually thinking taco bell beans are vegan

[Anonymous No.6577370]

>>6570347
Those men have no backbones. Enjoy marrying some no-spine beta who will agree with everything that you say until he explodes one day and you get a divorce.

[Anonymous No.6577372]

>>6573230
>allah bout that falafel

I shouldn't have giggled so hard but I couldn't help it.

[Anonymous No.6577381]

>meat is immoral!

But a vegan world is implausible

>but it's not healthy!

but there's proof it is very healthy and efficient

>but it's immoral

[Anonymous No.6577469]

>>6577381
Then eat less meat. Don't buy shit-tier meat, save money for better meat. That's plausible.

[Anonymous No.6577506]

>>6577370
That's why I'd actually only date a vegan who was vegan before they met me, so I don't end up with a thirsty scumbag who is only pretending to have principles to get laid. I shiver at the thought. Real ethical vegan men have the best spines. Vegan activists make me moist. We can argue about trivial things but I know he will always agree with me when it comes to the important stuff because a lot of times there's only one answer you can give if you have empathy, which they will definitely share.

[Anonymous No.6577534]

>>6577381
>But a vegan world is implausible
Has nothing to do with it's morality. A world without suffering is even more implausible. Doesn't make it right to inflict suffering.

>but there's proof it is very healthy and efficient
There's proof for meat being healthy? Then why isn't it allowed for meat companies to advertise it as healthy. Some meat in some circumstances can be healthy. But there's no proof for a blanket statement such as "meat is healthy" to be validated.

As for efficiency what kind of efficiency are we talking about here? There's only one source of energy on the earth for the consumption of life directly or indirectly, the sun. Meat is is probably the most inefficient way to obtain that. If it an efficient was for us to get our calories? Sure but pure oil would be even more efficient if we're talking calories/volume.

I eat meat because I like it. Not because it's effcient or healthy, its not.

[Anonymous No.6577542]

>>6577469
I find it hard to disagree with this line of thinking. If you have no moral objection to meat does not make, both reducing meat intake in improving it's quality, a bad idea.

A small amount of meat used smartly in 3 meals a week or a feast of meat every month probably is something neither the meat=lover or the nutritionist should have a problem with.

[Anonymous No.6577550]

>>6577534
What gets to be labelled "healthy" has very little to do with what actually is nutritionally best for us. Nutrition is less well understood than other branches of science. Basically, we need to avoid vitamin deficiencies and get enough macronutrients to function, but beyond that we aren't as sure.

[Anonymous No.6577564]

>>6577343
I don't feel a need to. Anyone who wants to argue that they should kill and/or fund the extreme abuse of animals isn't worth arguing with. I prefer to argue with sane people if at all. My time is valuable.

[Anonymous No.6577579]

>>6577022
>I don't understand.
No, I think it's me who doesn't understand. Why not just stop the nonsense and spell out what you actually want here. This thread might be on its way out, but it's possible I can help.

A lot goes into my own opinion. The delineation between "logic" (language, etc) and "feelings" is not always clear, insofar as they aren't standalone. The two are intertwined. You act like decisions aren't ultimately at least somewhat dependent on emotion and perception of value. Even the choice to go against one's emotions has an emotional basis. It is impossible to communicate these things clearly or in full, it will always be a quantization at best and we'll always be stuck crudely trying to translate them into a state where a being that is not ourselves can rebuild it in their own sense of self experience with reasonable accuracy. So we leave implicit things where they are and focus on higher ideas. Of course I've had experience with many animals, of course I see something in them, and of course I wouldn't like the feeling of killing them. The other side of that is of course I have different mental states with a varying spectrum of ideas, all of which yield different outcomes. Anything else obvious you'd like to get out of the way?

You don't seem to care about much of anything that doesn't rely on either of us to exist. Like I said, what do you actually want to know?

>Isn't veg*ism upheld as an example of how humans can rise above their barbaric animal nature? And yet you deny that this is the case?
Veg*ism is simply an example of human choice, and shows we can just eat plants. We're animals. We are capable of violence, we're apt to get vicious when it comes to perception of resources and associated affordances. Again, I'm not really certain of your angle. The tendency towards consumption of meat does not seem intrinsic, it's but one of many things we're capable of. We have the faculty for thought to do other things.[char limit]

[Anonymous No.6577581]

>>6577579
[Continued]
We're just a species that has very finely engineered its ecology. Very little about us, our drives, our behaviors, seems to have ever truly changed, technological affordance has been the biggest factor altering how our behaviors play out. There's also something to be said for changes in language and an accumulation of ideas, in some sense logic and language could be said to be two sides of the same coin, but I don't think they're dependent in any absolute sense.

There is a bottom line. In many regions, historically, there wasn't much of a choice. Meat was also better quality and consumed in much lower quantities. Modern day however, we have a choice. This part of our past we can transcend.

>How can you say this? You don't believe in moral obligations, by your own words.
There is a difference between "there are no moral obligations" and"morality does not exist".
I don't believe in any externally defined objective morality, no. You could say anything comparable to "obligation" I have is simply a sense of slavery to my own nature, and physics by extension. I would put the same on you, even if your own self experience differs.

[Anonymous No.6577593]

>>6577031
I don't really know about any of that, but I understand why you'd say a lot of the foundational work is important. As far as formal education, I think for me that train has long since come and gone, or maybe it never was to begin with. I don't believe you can ever truly know anything. It just comes down to looking at the whole, figuring a rough spectrum, controlling for error, and a weighting process for the likelihood of any given possibility, and how much trust you can have for it. Detecting when anything you're using as an axiom has holes, problems, or deficits in its backing is a bit different, but also part of it.

I don't tend to think in hard "it's true, or it's false" terms, and on the off chance I pay attention to pop culture or hearsay, it's more something to harvest bits from and hold onto until it's been thoroughly evaluated. It's an ongoing process. I appreciate a post without hostility though, anyway. Like I said, I understand the basis of what you're saying, but I don't know the extent of its truth. And the way things look, I probably never will.

>>6577076
My knowledge is by no means "cursory", I've been at this for quite a while.
There is more to the world and life than your "country".
Your country, probably the US, is fucked up for other reasons. I suggest you look further than just pointing the finger at whatever is a convenient enemy at the time.

If you can't evaluate and weigh other people's opinions to derive your own sense of truth, ad prefer to bitch instead, I'd say you're the biggest part of the problem.

>>6577343
>inherently wrong
Why is this angle meaningful?

[Anonymous No.6577746]

LOL vegheads are so easily baited, a full thread of vegans writing novels trying to preach to trolls. My god you people need to get a real hobby.

[Anonymous No.6577769]

>>6577746
In their defense, some people are actually as stupid as the meat eaters in this thread and it's hard to tell if it's just a troll on the internet. Also there are plenty of stupid people who could accidentally take them seriously too.

And I'd say the trolls are the ones in need of a real hobby. Pretty rude to waste people's time like this.

[Anonymous No.6577778]

>>6577769
More or less this. The difference between a troll and the genuine article is pretty hard to discern. People often draw from sources that are similar to their own beliefs, and it's better if these sorts don't just find a "vegans / vegetarians are retards la la la" echo chamber. Exposure to other viewpoints can be positive.

This "bait" shit is also probably one of the worst things to sweep across 4chan in a while. You rarely even hear the term "troll" anymore, it's just bait, and it isn't the same thing.

[Anonymous No.6578441]

>>6570039
Not sure if bait, but I'll reply anyway

>completely avoided through a plant based diet

Yeah, thats why you need to do your shopping in 15 different stores to find all the shit and dietary supplements so you don't die of malnutrition

>disagree on animal products tasting better

Silly hippie, it is in fact better - thats primarily the reason vegans are always edgy - because they havent eaten anything good in a while. How else would you explain all the imitation foods.

>"HURR look at this imitation steak - its made out of dirt and grass paste, it tastes exactly the same if not better and only cost $74 a pound - boy I sure don't regret going vegan!"

[Anonymous No.6578536]

>>6576769
>>6576678
>>6576635
Its always funny to read the ramblings of someone who tries to sound like he's an intellectual, but really really isn't.

[Anonymous No.6578767]

>>6578441
I actually am not currently taking supplements, but it looks like you should start.

I ate an amazing calzone yesterday. Haven't eaten anything yet today but I'm thinking about ordering some amazing tofu saag from an Indian restaurant near me. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely gonna do that. Oh god yeah.

And there are some products that are trying to imitate meat for people like you who actually like the crap. But the animal product alternatives that I eat on occasion taste way better (easy to do). So I call them animal product improvements. They started making them for people who don't know what to do without animal products and they wanted to use the same recipes, eat the same food, just without hurting animals or any of the other countless negative effects of animal products. But they've evolved into their own thing. I know meat eaters who stock their fridge with Gardein literally just because of the taste - not for health, the animals, or anything else. One in particular actually hates vegans...

Anyway, yeah you're retarded IDK why I even responded.