/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.6374559]

OK, So the UE sanctions on milk are going bye-bye. This means that large manufacturing and thus a blind eye to quality will confront the obstinately blatant "quality" of dairy products. The UE will basically become a US type conglomeration that basis its production on quantity.
Hello to EU based "Velveeta" as everything will rise in crazy (my keyboard has a euro symbol, but I don't know how to activate... sorry)

Sadly, dairy will now become just as an industry as the US. Sure, the US still has independent manufacturers; but far and few in between. When companies only look at money, the people suffer. Get used to the corrupt Capitalistic shit farce the West has to truly offer Old-World. You're in for a surprise 10 years into Velveeta status.

[Anonymous No.6374565]

>not living in economically backwards yet paradoxically economically successful switzerland
I feel bad for ya, son. I got ninety-nine problems, but dairy ain't one.

[Anonymous No.6374620]

>>6374565
Yea. Not when you have a need for 300X production. You think your leader businessmen won't succumb to cuts and crossways to achieve production? Fucking ignorant.

[Anonymous No.6374656]

>>6374620
No doubt they'd like to, but Swiss direct democracy won't allow that to happen. Swissizens are more than happy to pay more for quality, which is why referendums on related matters always suggest to keep the status quo.

For example, it would be cheaper if Switzerland allowed Walmart-like stores in the country but referendum after referendum always comes back the same: no. This is because with larger quantities come an inevitable drop in quality.

Similarly, it would be cheaper if stores were allowed to stay open after 19.00, but referendum after referendum comes back the same: no. This is because if the country allowed later hours, corporate stores would be the only ones able to stay open later, making it more difficult for independently owned shops to compete.

Finally, it would be cheaper if Switzerland allowed cheap, foreign produce into the country, but referendum after referendum comes back the same: no. This is because foreign cheap labour and land costs can pump out low quality produce and will flood the market and Swiss just prefer giving money to other Swiss rather than to filthy Romanians, even if it means paying considerably more for locally grown apples and kohlrabi.

[Anonymous No.6374718]

You are fucking retarded. This won't affect artisan cheese makers at all. Nor will it in any form change the kind of cheeses that are mass produced.

The quota was put in place to prevent overproduction which tanked the prices by hugely overshooting demand back in the 80s.

It has now been lifted to be able to export milk products to developing nation that have increased international demand.

[Anonymous No.6374723]

>>6374656
Yes, protectionism is important. But you can only have that when the people really have democratic power and politicians aren't just businessmen like it is so common in democracies.

[Anonymous No.6374733]

>>6374723
This. In most places the politician with the best campaign funding pretty much wins so getting elected pretty much becomes a contest of who can suck the cocks of the wealthy the best.

[Anonymous No.6374745]

>>6374559
ctrl+alt+4 for €

[Anonymous No.6374747]

>>6374656
>thinks that is protecting the level of quality in a good way
all those do is ensure lower quality levels by inflating process and preventing competition.

If your people were so willing to pay "extra for quality", there would be no need to legislate protective measures for domestic products. Any inferior products would fail in the market, cheap labor wouldn't be used, and people would choose to shop at locally owned locations.

I'm fine with y'all doing what y'all do, but be honest about it.

[Anonymous No.6374768]

>>6374747
This.

[Anonymous No.6374770]

>>6374747
Which explains why US beef/dairy is the epitome of quality compared with EU.

[Anonymous No.6374788]

>>6374770
Well Americans aren't willing (or even able half the time) to pay more for quality. Besides, the TV says that McDonald's is great, and everybody knows good food is pretentious and for queers.

[Anonymous No.6374789]

>>6374745
>ctrl

[Anonymous No.6374806]

>>6374770
We have different laws that affect quality here (like how it's mostly illegal to sell unpasteurized dairy products for human consumption) and mostly don't have the culture of "fancier" dairy products. It also goes without saying that our laws also are protectionist of larger corporations to a great deal.

That said, you can still get great examples of most products in the world for fairly cheap (crappier versions for much cheaper) in most of the US...maybe not the best, but Definitely good.

Also, the US beef game is on point if you shop anywhere but walmart and isn't as bad there as people make out here.

[Anonymous No.6374820]

>>6374789
What's your point? Are you complaining I typed c instead of C, or are you complaining I put ctrl instead of control?

Or are you a mac fag and the key is called clover or some other retarded name for you?

[Anonymous No.6374828]

>>6374770
This. Also, Switzerland is not part of the EU.
>tfw having to pay full price for museums even though you were born and live in the center of europe

>>6374723
Considering that the constitution of the Confederation gives direct democracy to the citizens, it's pretty safe to say that things will stay as they are in Switzerland for a good, long while.

>>6374747
It doesn't prevent competition.
There's /local/ competition. Why should anyone care about giving competition to foreigners?

Switzerland imports a few things but certain foods are banned from import, such as apples and kohlrabi. I didn't pick those two at random.

The reason being is that there're more than enough farmers in Switzerland growing both that there's plenty competition already and foreign produce will do nothing but flood the market and make it more difficult to find the good stuff. There are a number of other veg that are also limited or banned for importation into Switzerland.

It's been tried before, allowing foreign produce into the country and that's exactly what happened: Migros and Coop (basically Swiss coop-style Walmarts) began buying foreign produce and selling that at people rather than buying local produce. The quality was noticeably lower, as was the price. People protested. A referendum was held and the importation of large quantities of foods that can be produced domestically was banned or limited.
Things like bananas, coffee, mangoes and other stuff that can't be grown efficiently on Swiss soil are not affected by the referendum.

[Anonymous No.6374831]

>>6374788
I'd be perfectly fine with paying for 'quality' goods if they didn't cost $4-5 more than the shitty ones.
Independent farmers and food companies price themselves out of business. Instead of pricing thier stuff perhaps a dollar or so above average, where the 'normal' shopper wouldn't mind, they go full retard and price gouge the fuck out of what little loyal customers they have.

I'd love to buy organic, all-natural locally grown produce that supports my local farmers, but goddamn they've gotta give a little if they ever want my business.

[Anonymous No.6374835]

>>6374559
>efficiency is bad

Europoors, amirite?

[Anonymous No.6374843]

>>6374747
>all those do is ensure lower quality levels by inflating process and preventing competition.

What makes you think quality is the goal and end result of unrestricted economic competition? All that ensures is that the most ruthless and exploitative business wins. Quality is an artificial thing that can only be taken to it's heights by artificial competition.

There have to be rules, or else everybody is just sperging out. It's like sporting competetions, they all have rules to make sure that the contest is pleasant to watch and reasonably safe for the competitors.

Of course too much rules can easily stifle progress but the solution is definitely not no rules. There is a sweet spot that has to be continually searched and adjusted for.

[Anonymous No.6374859]

>>6374831
Your cheap food in the US is incredibly cheap compared to other places. That's why you perceive the price gap to be so huge.

They are allowed to sell you shit that would never see the market in other countries because it doesn't meet basic food safety standards.

>>6374835
Americans wouldn't know about efficiency if it smacked you in the head. You "work" so many hours and days but have so little to show for. There is no effieciency in the USA, it's all just wastefulness.

This is true efficiency: http://knote.com/2014/11/10/why-germans-work-fewer-hours-but-produce-more-a-study-in-culture/

[Anonymous No.6374878]

>>6374828
>it doesn't prevent competition
>it prevents competition

[Anonymous No.6374880]

>>6374859
>wastefulness
This has always been true, for better or worse.
Everything's always in excess over here.
Double king size everything covered in cheese, with a 60oz drink to wash it down. For every meal.
Where eating till you're 'stuffed' every meal is a normal thing, and if you aren't full, then you're living in poverty and the government will give you free money to stuff your face some more.
I know I should feel disgusted and ashamed, but.. goddamn it just feels so good.
I'm hoping to travel to a few different countries fairly soon, so maby things will finally come into perspective for me.

[Anonymous No.6374887]

>>6374843
I don't think that's the case. Swissbro implied that was the case by staying that they didn't mind paying more for quality (which if we're intelligently going to have this conversation we need to adequately define). I just started if that were the car, then protective legislation were not necessary as the "quality"products would win in the market. If they don't win, tat means they aren't as highly valued as Swissbro thinks.

[Anonymous No.6375028]

>>6374887
>If they don't win, tat means they aren't as highly valued as Swissbro thinks.

This is where you are wrong because the consumer isn't all powerful. It's a war of attrition and over time the highest quality product at a premium price will always fall victim to market forces if it isn't protected from them. That doesn't mean it isn't quality.

I think maybe there's a misunderstanding with the word quality? the product with the best price to performance ratio is rarely the product that also offers the highest performance. It seems to me that you think of quality as referring to the ratio instead of the performance.

Although I think his point was primary about National protectionism, and not product quality.

I have good example though as for why I like protectionism. A few years ago Feta was not a protected brand cheese in the EU. Everybody could produce whatever they wanted and call it Feta. I happen to like authentic Feta that is made with sheep and goat milk, it's much stronger than the knockoff that is made with cow milk. But in a normal supermarket you couldn't find the real thing. Every Feta they sold was the shitty cow milk type. So I couldn't buy what I wanted because it wasn't even offered.

That all changed when the name got protected, local knockoff cheese producer were crying about their business loss but suddenly everywhere I go, I can find real actual Feta made in Greece from real actual goat and sheep milk. This would never have been possible without the name and style becoming protected. Nowadays the knockoffs still exist as salad style cheese and other creative descriptive names but they aren't allowed to call their shit Feta anymore and less people buy it.

But without intervention, the consumer alone could not have created this kind of drastic change. The market doesn't always fix it. Libertarianism is utterly naive in that regard. This blind believe in market forces being the ultimate good, is utter nonsense.

[Anonymous No.6375058]

>>6374859
>Your cheap food in the US is incredibly cheap compared to other places.
Price in the EU are unreasonably high, kept high to support low efficiency farming methods and poor land management. All the while trying to pass off more expensive goods as higher quality.

Pic related, farms in the EU and farms in Canada, picture is at the same distance so the size is 1:1 between the two.

[Anonymous No.6375065]

>>6375058
But everything is better in Europe.

[Anonymous No.6375088]

>>6375065
>But everything is better in Europe.
I keep forgetting.

[Anonymous No.6375094]

>>6375058
Who the fuck would ever think that was a good way to farm? All hodgepodge and shit? Fucking Europe

[Anonymous No.6375097]

>>6374559
>Sadly, dairy will now become just as an industry as the US.
Even ass backwards countries like mine, Norway, dairy is just an industry like every other industry.

Sure, some countries still make artisan stuff, but you're romanticizing shit to the extreme.

[Anonymous No.6375100]

>>6375094
>All hodgepodge and shit?
Elevations and actual terrain thought it was a good idea.

[Anonymous No.6375109]

>>6375094
It's relic of feudalism. Give a peasant a bit of land you carve out, and reap in 80% of the crop.

[Anonymous No.6375110]

>>6375094
>Who the fuck would ever think that was a good way to farm? All hodgepodge and shit? Fucking Europe
1500 years of land claims and semi private ownership. Back when all they had was animal power those lots were about as large as a family with animals could look after.

>>6375100
>Elevations and actual terrain thought it was a good idea.
Picture is from the boarder of Germany and Denmark. That's flat as shit. The cause is a lack of consolidation and laws designed to protect small operators.

[Anonymous No.6375115]

>>6375110
It's not size that bothers me, it's shape. Oddly shaped plots of land have to be hell for any kind of calculations you need to do.

[Anonymous No.6375131]

>>6374843
>What makes you think quality is the goal and end result of unrestricted economic competition? All that ensures is that the most ruthless and exploitative business wins.

And how do they do that? By offering things people want to buy, at a price they are willing to pay for it. The business controls nothing, if they can't offer the right thing at the right price, consumers will move to other sellers who can. And who is being exploitated? A market economy is not a zero sum game, someone who has money but wants an apple more than they want the money is willing to trade to someone who has apples but wants money. Both parties are better off for that transaction, one got their apple and the other got their money, both win. There is no exploitation in a deal where both parties benefit from the sale, that's the basis of how a market economy works. The idea that a seller can exploit the customer with impunity is something that can't happen in a competitive market, or at least without government "help" interfering with market forces by sustaining a monopoly that couldn't exist otherwise.

[Anonymous No.6375132]

>>6375131
>exploitated
stopped reading there

[Anonymous No.6376440]

>>6374878
It doesn't prevent competition. There's local competition already. It prevents foreign usurpation. As I said before, why should a Swiss give money to foreigners when I can buy Swiss?

The problem was that Swiss farmers and landowners have to charge more for their products due to the expense of living in Switzerland v Romania, the prices of high-quality, Swiss-grown produce would be higher at /the wholesale level/, not just retail.

If the large grocery stores are the only ones buying stuff wholesale to retail it to the end consumer, do you think they're going to buy from the more expensive, higher quality source or the supercheap, low quality source? Customers, who can only buy retail, get screwed out of being able to purchase higher quality goods because the larger grocery stores stop carrying them in favour of the cheaper, subpar alternative. "Well," you might say, "customers can buy directly from the farmers!" No, actually. They can't. It's something that's quite difficult for many Swiss because of urbanisation. Most of the best produce comes from several hours out of the city and farmers can't travel into town daily to set up shop nor can city-dwellers travel out regularly to visit these bünzli farmers to buy directly. City-dwelling Swiss shop from Migros and Coop and if Migros and Coop are only buying cheaply grown, low-quality Romanian produce to sell at us, we're fucked.

[Anonymous No.6376469]

>>6376440
>why should a Swiss give money to foreigners when I can buy Swiss?

Depends on what you value more, the product or patriotism?

Also, the funny thing about all this is that even if you buy a foreign product it's still being sold by a local business which makes money off the sale, and also pays local taxes, uses local services, employs local people, etc.

>>Swiss-grown produce would be higher at /the wholesale level/, not just retail.

Correct. And the foreign produce is even cheaper.

>>If the large grocery stores are the only ones buying stuff wholesale....

But they are not the only players in town. They might sell the cheap stuff, but that doesn't mean they are the only source available.

For example, I live in the US. We're often made fun of for our "American Cheese", crappy white bread, etc. And I agree, those are bad products. But even though most of the cheese in the supermarket is processed crap (as is the bread), the good stuff is still available right beside it on the shelf.

[Anonymous No.6376506]

>Raw Milk is is illegal in Wisconsin

there is a reason why milk has to pasteurization, its all the blood and pus form over milking the cow

and the pasteurization destroy all the natural vitamins in the milk so it has to br "enriched" with chemicals

[Anonymous No.6376521]

>>6375094
easier to irrigation a circle them a square

now don't be so stupid city boy

[Phil Ossiferz Stone !!esSirF6LRYN No.6376527]

>>6374559
That isn't true. Two thirds of all dairy in the US is produced through local co-ops.

[Anonymous No.6376538]

>>6376469
>larger grocery stores aren't the only ones buying wholesale
>for example, i live in the US
>and have never been to switzerland nor do i know how switzerland works and think that every country in the world runs everything exactly the same way as in the US
cool story, bro
tell it again

[Anonymous No.6376547]

>>6376538

So is there some kind of a law in Switizerland that says that every store has to sell the exact same thing?

Are you trying to tell me that Switzerland doesn't have different places to shop, which offer different products for sale?

I call bullshit. If a place as infamous for good ingredients as the US has wide availability to nice ingredients then it is surely true elsewhere as well.

[Anonymous No.6376593]

>>6376469
I thought I explained it pretty well, but as you misunderstand a fundemental thing here, I'll have to explain it more clearly.
Switzerland allowed foreign produce at one time.

When this happened, the foreign produced flooded the markets because larger grocery stores, which are often the only ones available to many Swiss, bought only the foreign stuff rather than the domestic stuff because the foreign stuff is cheaper.

While domestic stuff was still available to those who had access to them, the fact that the large grocery stores bought only the foreign produce limited the end consumer's purchases to foreign stuff only.

This is because most Swiss don't have the time to take a 6 hour roundtrip grocery run and many farms are three hours away or more from where many Swiss live.

So Switzerland held a referendum. Swiss people voted. Swiss people wanted to ban or limit foreign produce. So that's how they voted. "Should foreign produce be banned/limited?" The resounding answer came back "FUCK YES! Give me back my goddamned kohlrabi that actually tastes like something instead of this shitty foreign crap!"

In the US, where you don't have voting rights like Swiss do, there's little you can do directly to affect real change in how the system works. You have to petition a lawmaker in the hopes that he or she will agree with you and take up your cause.
In Switzerland, you just need to get enough signatures to request a municipal, cantonal or federal referendum, then everyone in the municipality/canton/country votes on it.

[Anonymous No.6378531]

>>6375131

[Anonymous No.6378945]

>>6374733

Right, so money doesn't affect voting in Switzerland.

That's why the incredibly wealthy Right is winning Initiative after Initiative.

I'm also Swiss and I've helped campaign Initiatives and money plays a deciding factor, even in Switzerland.

[Anonymous No.6378968]

>>6374559
>europoors finally make headway into out of the stone ages
>complain about it
You savages deserve your thatch huts and no plumbing.

[Anonymous No.6378997]

>>6376593
>So Switzerland held a referendum. Swiss people voted. Swiss people wanted to ban or limit foreign produce. So that's how they voted. "Should foreign produce be banned/limited?" The resounding answer came back "FUCK YES! Give me back my goddamned kohlrabi that actually tastes like something instead of this shitty foreign crap!"
Which referendum exactly are you referring to?

[Anonymous No.6379007]

>>6378968
Europe was thriving before your nation existed anon.

[Anonymous No.6379031]

>>6379007
And the middle east and China both were once bastions of progress and discovery.

Your point?

[Anonymous No.6379287]

>>6374559
Reminder that this is EU shill posting

>EU to set up euro-election 'troll patrol' to tackle Eurosceptic surge

>The European Parliament is to spend almost £2 million on press monitoring and trawling Eurosceptic debates on the internet for "trolls" with whom to debate in the run-up and during euro-elections next year amid fears that hostility to the EU is growing.

Pure fucking euro kolchoz propaganda.

[Anonymous No.6379290]

>>6379287
forgot link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9845442/EU-to-set-up-euro-election-troll-patrol-to-tackle-Eurosceptic-surge.html

[Anonymous No.6379293]

>>6374559
>eurofags legitimately think our stores only have processed "cheese-food"
>they think we can't get actual cheese anywhere

[Anonymous No.6379302]

>>6379031
THe EU has a higher standard of living.

[Anonymous No.6379310]

>>6374565
are you retarded? there is nothing backwards about swiss economy.

[Anonymous No.6380548]

So what does this mean exactly?

[Anonymous No.6380864]

>>6374880
>that feeling when you eat two double cheeseburgers on the ride home from work, getting home and ripping off all your clothes and then making yourself a blanket fort out of 15 comforters and then listening to NPR and shitposting on 4chan until 9 PM, then taking a bath with a glass of white wine until you feel sleepy enough to go to bed

I fucking love America.

[Anonymous No.6380924]

>>6374718
I still find the artisan US movement hands on retarded. Or not the movement itself, but the fact you need a wannabe home industry to make stuff which is commonly available from big chains over pond/

[Anonymous No.6380938]

>>6375115
Not really. It's fairly simple to calculate.

[Anonymous No.6380940]

>Europe allowed for UHT
>UHT milk has a shelf life of 6 to 9 months
>UHT is the most common milk type sold because of cooling expenses

[Anonymous No.6381591]

>>6380940
>>UHT is the most common milk type sold because of cooling expenses
Is it really? That's depressing. The stuff is vile.

[Anonymous No.6381630]

>mfw im a fit Burger that lives in the country with horses and shit

I fucking hate my countrymen though. Zero self control with a victim complex

[Anonymous No.6381648]

>>6375058
I fail to see what your pic is supposed to "prove". .

[Anonymous No.6381656]

It's no secrets all prices are decided by the industry in Europe, cheaper milk will not be sold cheaper to consumer, it's just the 3 brands owning the market that will make more money.

[Anonymous No.6381661]

I wonder what they'll do with that milk, the market is saturated, there was never any shortage, so unless they can turn it into plastic or something it's just going to waste.

[Anonymous No.6381689]

>>6381661
Sell it to Africa and Asia.

[Anonymous No.6381691]

>>6381689
they're already doing that anyway

[Anonymous No.6381696]

>>6381689
>sell it to lactose intolerant places

Seriously, aside from sending a thousand famrer to bankrupcy and giving some local markets to one of the big 3 brands, it's going nowhere.

[Anonymous No.6381697]

>>6381691
Yeah but the foreign demand has risen, that's why the restrictions to prevent overproduction have been lifted, because they plan on exporting it all.

I don't care, I only buy local Vorzugsmilch anyway.

[Anonymous No.6381699]

>>6381696
There's milk products that have no lactose in them.

[Anonymous No.6381700]

>>6381697
Exportation is OK I guess.
I switched to microfiltered bio milk a while ago anyway so I doubt the industrial white piss they'll produce impact me much.

[Anonymous No.6381705]

>>6381700
The only way they can still get you is if you buy mass produced brand cheese.

[Anonymous No.6381731]

>>6374559
>Implying nations don't have their own regulations.

Arla would never betray us.

[Anonymous No.6381777]

>>6375094
The one that's "hodgepodge" is Canada, fyi.

T. Canadian. That's how our farmland in Ontario looks. Mostly small farms sort of randomly all over.

[Anonymous No.6381782]

>>6375094
>>6381777
Oh wait, the bottom one is how it looks in Denmark/Germany border.


Where in the living hell is the top one? Ontario, the most populated province looks exactly like the bottom image.