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/ck/ - Food & Cooking

File: 24 KB, 400x400, umami.jpg.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sat Sep 13 19:00:38 2014 No.5789277 [Reply] [Original]

So what exactly is umami, /ck/?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 19:04:24 2014 No.5789285 >>5789277 glutemate

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 19:05:02 2014 No.5789286 >>5789277 the japanese word for Savory.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 19:05:38 2014 No.5789287 >>5789277 walnut

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 20:36:55 2014 No.5789531 >>5789286 Pretty much this.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 20:37:42 2014 No.5789534 >>5789286 What exactly is"savory"

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 20:49:39 2014 No.5789561 >>5789534 What is Bitter? What is Sweet? Salty? Sour? Spicy? Its just different groupings of taste buds being activated.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 20:54:06 2014 No.5789570 Waaaaalnut

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 20:56:42 2014 No.5789579 >>5789286 Basically a new addition to the four basic tastes. Anything that has a strong savory taste has Umami. Ingredients such as onion, mushrooms, garlic, potatoes, and beef. Its just that savory taste that these additions add to dishes.

Anonymous Sat Sep 13 21:14:37 2014 No.5789621

>>5789579
Agreeing that "savory" is the closest household term for it.

Alternatively, just think of the flavors you know that don't fit into any of the other four, and chances are they're "umami".

Also, that chart.
>Salty
>>salt

>Salty / Sweet
>>salted watermelon

kek

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 21:19:14 2014 No.5789632 >>5789561 > What is Bitter? alkalinity > What is Sweet? sugar > Salty? salts > Sour? acidity > Spicy? pain

Anonymous Sat Sep 13 21:30:44 2014 No.5789670

>>5789632
Not trying to sound like an ass, but citation on spicy = pain? I've always wondered about that actually, since peppers supposedly developed spiciness as a defense mechanism. I mean, there's no arguing that perceiving extreme levels of spiciness is pain, but is the general sensation fundamentally a pain response? i.e., Is the taste of black pepper technically a form of pain perception?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 21:39:52 2014 No.5789695 Salted coffee with some sweetened lemon

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:38:47 2014 No.5789819 >>5789695 Goes great in salads

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:41:13 2014 No.5789827 >>5789670 I'd argue its more like pungency + heat at varying levels Black pepper is mostly pungency with medium-low amounts of heat, dried ancho peppers the opposite for example

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:43:29 2014 No.5789831 >>5789534 what is blue?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:46:05 2014 No.5789838 >>5789831 Light with a wavelength of about 475 nm.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:46:53 2014 No.5789842 >>5789838 #REKT

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:48:34 2014 No.5789843 >>5789838 wrong

Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:50:29 2014 No.5789846

Being multilingual, I've always had a problem with the English "basic tastes." Where would the camphoraceous flavour of black cardamom fit, hm? How about the sting of alcohol? Or the dryness of underripe fruit? Or the numbing taste of prickly ash?
Outside of English, other languages have words for these tastes. Is that to say that there are more than five basic tastes, then? Are their eight? Nine?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:53:07 2014 No.5789852 >>5789846 You're probably right. My native tongue also has words outside the 4-5 in English. Words for the fermented taste etc are useful

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:55:49 2014 No.5789859 >>5789277 Your language would also only have 4-5 words for flavors if it derived from anything like English cuisine. Pic related.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:56:00 2014 No.5789860 >>5789846 Pungency, astringency, piquancy, tang are not seen as primary tastes they are qualities that are used to further describe sweet/salty/bitter/sour/savory

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:56:53 2014 No.5789861 File: 77 KB, 463x573, full english.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5789859 Damn i forgot the pic

Anonymous Sat Sep 13 22:59:53 2014 No.5789870

>>5789846
>camphoraceous

cam·phor (kmfr)
n.
An aromatic crystalline compound, C10H16O, obtained naturally from the wood or leaves of the camphor tree or synthesized and used as an insect repellent, in the manufacture of film, plastics, lacquers, and explosives, and in medicine chiefly in external preparations to relieve mild pain and itching.

Since fucking when could one describe cardamom of any kind with this kind of vocabulary?

Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:02:55 2014 No.5789878

>>5789860
Yeah?
Then why when trying to google translate our word for the taste of underripe fruit, google will call it 'bitter' in one instance then 'sour' in another then simply 'immature' in a third?

The flavour is neither bitter nor sour. With what we know of linguistic relativity and cognitive science, English just lacks the vocabulary to describe this taste. Does this mean that native English-speakers are therefore wholly unable satisfactorily to understand the concept because their language lacks it altogether? Were Sapir and Whorf correct all along?

Same with the taste of black cardamom. In fact, our word for that taste doesn't translate into English at all!

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:04:06 2014 No.5789881 >>5789870 >he thinks cardamom is the same as black cardamom Point at him! Point at him and laugh!

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:05:52 2014 No.5789887 >>5789878 Which language and what is the word.

Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:09:02 2014 No.5789894

>>5789887
Forgettaboutit

One word, tons of means depending on how you say it. Like Fuck. There's another one.

With just one word we can do entire diatribes in English.

Carlin came up with the Fuck one, for Forgettaboutit, look to the movie Donnie Brasco.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:15:05 2014 No.5789904 >>5789861 That could feed an Inuit village for weeks.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:16:28 2014 No.5789905 >>5789878 HAHAHAHAHAA! >google >linguistic source No, just no.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:18:15 2014 No.5789908 >>5789894 Carlin did not make up all the meanings for Fuck. I hate you, go follow your favorite comic to hell.

Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:20:20 2014 No.5789910

>>5789878
We have words for that, however you have to understand most Americans speak English at a third grade level

Even then the word is astringent, underripe fruit sucks the moisture out of your mouth and has a "pukery" quality to it.

If you really want to be a douche bag you can say under ripened fruit has the a hypoguesia-like affect as it reduces taste because of its peculiar form of astringency

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:22:15 2014 No.5789912 >>5789908 I don't like carlin too much, but he did popularize the multi use word fuck.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:23:41 2014 No.5789916 >>5789908 He just put it together in a comedy routine, fuck is heard just living in a city, anyone can hear it and know it's meaning by inflection. So fuck off you fucking faggot!

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:26:25 2014 No.5789922 >>5789910 For such uneducated fucks, we kicked your hoity toit Euro asses not just once, but twice. Revolution and War of 1812 to remind you. Guess we must suck here in the USA.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:28:15 2014 No.5789926 >>5789910 The islamics are having a field day with your shit euro nations aren't they? You can't even boot out the criminal ones, you might harm their human right to blow you up you dumb fucks.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:39:06 2014 No.5789954 >>5789670 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPTaVi9B1F4&feature=youtu.be&t=2m21s Yeah I guess pain was the wrong word Heat or abrasion.

Anonymous Sat Sep 13 23:49:03 2014 No.5789984

>>5789922
>>5789926

...dude I am American, its not a lie to say the vast majority of our population speaks at such a low level, not even trying to sound like a neckbeard but piquancy and words like that aren't commonly used

Its fine saying that fact, there is no shame in being provincial you know, its what makes us what we are for the most part :3

Anonymous Sun Sep 14 01:59:46 2014 No.5790255

>>5789670

it directly stimulates pain receptors.

>>5789954

no, pain was the right word. high heat and abrasion causes pain. spiciness just happens to cause pain through this mechanism rather than one of the many other mechanisms that cause pain.

another kind of pleasurable pain in food is carbonation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 14 13:18:54 2014 No.5791562 >>5789621 >just think of the flavors you know that don't fit into any of the other four, and chances are they're "umami" wrong, you're thinking of aromatics

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 14 14:40:19 2014 No.5791803 >>5789860 Don't forget aroma, some of the he was listing was part of the aroma dimension of taste as well.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 14 14:43:09 2014 No.5791810 File: 93 KB, 600x860, baitmaster.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5789910 >most Americans speak English at a third grade level This is a lie.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 14 15:12:25 2014 No.5791895 >>5789670 Black pepper does not work by the same mechanism as red pepper.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 14 15:30:39 2014 No.5791962 >>5789277 something that has no actual flavor but its texture tricks us into thinking it has one. the flavor we will taste will depend on the state of our tongue and self in general.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 15 01:30:05 2014 No.5793855 >>5791895 both capsaicin and piperine trip TRPV1... different chemical, but it is the same mechanism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 15 01:35:30 2014 No.5793867 >>5791810 That's some good master bait you got there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 15 01:39:26 2014 No.5793873 Umami and Upapi.

Anonymous Mon Sep 15 02:18:29 2014 No.5793964

Umami to me is the background completeness of a flavor. The best example I can give is to think of the different cuisines. On a very basic level; anything cured or fermented can be used to complete a flavor like the Italians with anchovies and black garlic, or Asian cultures with naturally brewed soy sauce, or fermented fish sauce. The French cook stocks with chicken carcasses or veal bones to extract nutrients and collagen from connective tissues to give sauces a velvety richness and mouthfeel.

Every cuisine has its "umami" but its not a simple taste sensation like salty or sweet

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 15 04:53:10 2014 No.5794245 >>5789277 MSG

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 15 05:01:43 2014 No.5794253 >>5793964 >but its not a simple taste sensation like salty or sweet objectively incorrect, the whole reason we say umami instead of savoury is because the japanese scientifically proved that umami is a basic taste.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 15 05:10:15 2014 No.5794267 Aged cheeses have pretty distinct umami flavor Like get some aged emmental and bite in to it, that's your umami right there

Anonymous Mon Sep 15 10:04:42 2014 No.5794689

Retarded bullshit nobody cares about except nips and hipsters, it's the same bullshit you see in every corner of nip culture, idiotic nonsense concepts created to feel superior and fuck others over, like "zanshin" in kendo. LOL UR HIT DOESN'T COUNT U DIDENT DISPLAY ENOUGH ZANSHIN FILTHY GAIJIN. LOL UR FUD SUX NOT ENOUGH UMAMI. Same shit.

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