/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.5733763]

Alright /ck/, I've been "turned" and I've seen the true diet of human beings. That is primarily starches along with vegetables, whole grains and fruits. I used to be an Amerifat, then got leaner on a paleo diet but now I've come to realize that for my own health and longevity I have to leave out the meat. It was easier for me, because I already haven't consumed dairy for more than a year (gives me acne, gas) and I've left out grains for that year as well, so I'm not going to go for refined grains. It's also easier for me to change into this diet because I haven't had sugar and to an extent salt on any on my dishes for the past year.

So I'm wondering, have you looked into a plant based diet and its benefits? Would you be willing to read/listen to a fairly easy to understand explanation from a medical professional in the field? How much do you really trust the meat and dairy industries? Are you interested in having a plant based general around /ck/ where we can have a constructive, fair and non judgemental discussion about why eating plants is healthier than eating animal products? I feel that this information needs to get out there, because there is a tremendous campaign of misinformation, quackery and money making underway. I experienced it, now I turn away to a healthier, life prolonging diet.

[Anonymous No.5733774]

I found this to be very eye opening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZotYjkpRmU

tl;dr version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX2btaDOBK8

[Anonymous No.5733787]

>>5733763
bamp

[Anonymous No.5733870]

>>5733763
>So I'm wondering, have you looked into a plant based diet and its benefits?
yeah a paleo diet is plant based
>Would you be willing to read/listen to a fairly easy to understand explanation from a medical professional in the field?
yeah i listen.
>i need protein thats available to build muscle. muscle is important to some people
>the speaker is dyel but he did verify why IF and even juice fasting are good things in the tips section
>some people enjoy the taste of meat and have good, GREAT memories connected with eating meat so theres that too
>How much do you really trust the meat and dairy industries?
you shouldn trust anyone fully but there are viable organic sources for fish, beef, chicken, etc.. you just have to look for it
>Are you interested in having a plant based general around /ck/ where we can have a constructive, fair and non judgemental discussion about why eating plants is healthier than eating animal products?
sure man its a free country. youre on 4chins tho so i doubt that happens

anyways good luck with the vegan life

[Anonymous No.5733874]

>>5733763
Been a vegan for years, but only recently started getting really interested in eating as healthy as possible. I've cut out all alcohol (except on special occasions), Swapped my corn oil for olive, eat beans everyday, only drink unsweetened green tea and water (sometimes black tea), eat flax seeds everyday, try to eat a lot of greens, fruit, sweet potatoes.

Just started looking into McDougall's Starch Solution stuff as well. It's very interesting and different in some keys ways to what I had been reading--namely the emphasis on starch and tubers rather than fruits and vegetables.

[Anonymous No.5733906]

>>5733870
>yeah a paleo diet is plant based
What do you mean? As far as I know and what I've participated on bulletproof/primal blueprint a "paleo" diet primarily focuses on animal protein. Plant based means you're basing your diet on plants. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear in the OP with people not being familiar with the semantics.

>you shouldn trust anyone fully but there are viable organic sources for fish, beef, chicken, etc.. you just have to look for it
Well there's no organic fish, anyone who's telling you that is trying to make a buck out of you. The best you can get is flash frozen fish from day boats. The longer they wait to freeze and the longer it's frozen the more histamine it will develop. I'll agree that there are "better" sources of animal protein out there and I've filled my chest fridge with a quarter of AGA/AWA certified cow last year. But not everyone has these options, let alone the price difference.

>>5733874
Cut out the oil, even olive oil or just use it very sparingly. McDougall's a great guy, because humans are starch eaters, all civilizations have thrived on starch. It also makes the most sense, since they are the foods that keep you full. Check out this series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYfq-V_5Cv4

[Anonymous No.5733971]

>>5733874
Gorilla's and chimpanzees eat fruitarian diets. Humans have evolved over these lesser primates to digest starches. "Complex carbs" are very unique to humans. Have you seen any other animal eat starch? Nope. That's because it's the food we should be eating. It's the storage of plants' energy and when you think about it, it comes from photosynthesis and is therefore a "pure" source of energy. I'm just saying, there is a lot of reasons why we are starchivores as >>5733906 pointed out. Sweet potatoes being the most nutritious vegetable should be a big indicator of where your main calories should come from.. not exclusively, but certainly in majority.

[Anonymous No.5733997]

>>5733906
Does McDougall say anything about fat specifically? I switched to olive oil to balance out my omega 6 to omega 3 ratio. I have a lot of fat in my diet though because I eat a lot of nuts

[Anonymous No.5733998]

>>5733763
okay OP, I've been thinking of going vegan for a while and I guess I could try it for while. what should I consider before doing this ? any specific foods I should be eating mostly? potatoes and beans? am I gonna be fine or do I need B12 supplements (or others?)?

[Anonymous No.5734014]

>>5733997
https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/free-mcdougall-program/steps-to-recovery/starch-staples/

Oil should be avoided, if you're concerned about your n-3/n-6 ratio you shouldn't be. Just make sure you eat a lot of greens, the reason fish are so high in n-3 is because they eat algae. Same reason why grass fed beef is higher in n-3, they eat primarily grass. If feel like eating nuts, try to lower it to around 1-2oz of nuts a day at most and I recommend macadamia nuts and sprouted almonds. The former being the best -real- nut available. Almonds are acceptable, just for the variety next to macadamia. Don't fall for the walnut trap, walnuts are not a good way to get your ratio under control. Remember, you don't want high amounts of either n-3 or n-6, you want a 1:1 ratio as close as possible, that's what really matters. I don't feel like taking out my sources on this, as you can find it yourself with some google-fu but if you're struggling I can look it up for you tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.5734031]

Thanks for the thread OP. Here's some great breakfast ideas I've been doing lately:

Whole spelt, roasted macadamia, bananas and some honey.
Steel cut oats, strawberries, almonds, raspberries, blueberries and a tiny bit brown sugar.
White long grain rice, natto, dijon mustard, green onion slices, avocado, orange/and or apple.

[Anonymous No.5734051]

>>5733998
You'll want a b12 supplement if you do it long term, but since your liver stores it up you probably won't need anything immediately. Long term vegans should also consider calcium and vitamin D supplements, possibly zinc as well. That's about it. The main ones are really vit D and b12. The rest you can do with proper eating.

Definitely make sure you include dark greens in your diet on a daily basis. Beans are good because they're more calorie dense than vegetables. Grains are good, just remember that they tend to be low in calories. I don't know if you have any weight goals, but you might want to try tracking your calories because plant food are calorically dilute compared to say a block of cheese. Rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes will help fill you up and provide you with complex sugars but, again, fairly low in regards to their calorie content. Try to include fruit at every meal as well, especially if you're physically active.

[Anonymous No.5734060]

>>5734031
Anything you do with the wheat or is it more of a cereal than a porridge?

[Anonymous No.5734068]

>>5734051
oh, and iodine if you live in an area that doesn't add it to salt

[Anonymous No.5734089]

>>5734014
ehh, that's a tough sell for me, man, especially since I've been including walnuts and peanuts in my diet mainly for health reasons (also to help me put on weight). Everything I've read points to nuts contributing positively to health. I'll have to do some more reading on the subject.

(and, no i'm not eating walnuts for omega 3 specifically because I know it's higher in omega 6, but I also believe based on what I've read that a 1:4 ration is acceptable)

[Anonymous No.5734094]

>>5734051
Hmm, I've been doing this for 5 years now and never had an issue with calcium. What's your take on it? WHO suggests 400-500mg, while the body really just needs 150-200mg. Provided you have decent hormone D levels. Of course you want to keep your Zinc/Copper balance, but I honestly haven't had any issues with that either, eating mostly starches that is. I haven't really been eating a lot of dark greens, I hate mustard and collard greens so I usually just eat a cup of kale/spinach/swiss chard mix. I try to do it daily, but it ends up being every other day, I haven't had an issue with this either - should I reconsider? I've been also thinking of going full on carrot juice just to cover that vitamin A base, what do you guys think?

[Anonymous No.5734106]

>>5734089
>also to help me put on weight
Nevermind then. I'm just being paranoid with "nuts" most times, especially peanuts because they're infested with diseases and recalls happen often around here. And afaik they're really not that healthy, I think you'd do better with almonds honestly. I think peanut and cashew is the worst nut for health iirc.

If you understand that walnuts compared to macadamia are very significantly higher in amounts of PUFAs then that's okay of course, I'm just saying that macadamia is the smarter choice if you're primarily looking out for your n-3/n-6 ratio but yes, you're right 1:4 is acceptable. Considering most people are at like 1:100, lol.

[Anonymous No.5734110]

>>5734060
It's a mix honestly, you can do either extreme though if you'd prefer it that way. Spelt just has a nice nutty flavor that goes well with that dish. You can take any whole grain and grain berry and make a delicious meal out of it. Definitely better than 2 scrambled eggs and bacon.

[Anonymous No.5734122]

>>5733874
I like alot of what Jogn McDougall says but then I lose interest when he says gmo's arent the problem and tells everyone to eat almost an entire loaf of bread every day to lose weight.

[Anonymous No.5734130]

>>5734094
RDA is 1000 mg. Not sure where you're getting 500 from.
Reason I brought it up is because of a study Gregor mentioned that found most vegans barely getting half of the RDA. If you eat right or your levels have been tested and are a-okay it's probably not necessary, but especially given that you don't eat dark greens you should definitely take a closer look at your numbers. I've been eating a lot of arugula lately, which is tasty as hell

[Anonymous No.5734134]

>>5733763
How to the HEALTHIEST poops EVER that will clog toilet before you even paper.

you might not agree with everything said, or do things the way that I do.
this is the way I do things. to each their own.

Joe Rogan mentions poop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmmPSBRu6wg

I don't eat fish meat chicken milk animal products and I eat max fruits and vegetables all day+ drink alot water.no soda.
I get all protein from hemp beans quinoa, nuts seeds
I don't drink almond milk. I eat almonds + drink water

no eat processed foods, like bread.
I eat oats and whole grain wheat and other grains, cooked into porridge.

I buy all fruits veggies nuts seeds beans lentils grains bulk whenever I can find them at good price opportunistically, even better when find a great deal on organic version or "food" like babushka used to call it.

I chew all my food until totally obliterated in my mouth. no pieces of corn show up in toilet. better surface area = better absorption into body.

I chop up all stuff and prepare in pieces, put into bags and press the air out, then put into another bag and press the air out again then freeze it all.

you can wash bags out and reuse again if you want.


I buy chia+ flax seeds whole and put them in the coffee grinder at home, two teaspoons of each mixed into a big glass 50% prune juice 50% water. I drink this in the morning every other day. (1 day break in between)

I internet search: what food contains this vitamin, and do that for every vit and mineral until I have all accounted for.

every morning I do ten crunches. not alot but does alot for stomach.

when I need to poo I stand on toilet seat carefully, kneel down into squatting position hugging knees against stomach while leaning forward a little, using one arm to grab hold of wall or other useful object next to toilet.

careful to not push too hard and develop hemorrhoids, I use my stomach to push, not head or butt.

I am Not a doctor. Ask your doctor before doing anything.

[Anonymous No.5734149]

>>5734130
If you are on a plant based diet, you do not need 1000mg. That is the dairy industry here in the US shilling its way into your fridge.

The WHO is way more trustworthy, just ctrl-f "500" http://www.who.int/dietphysicalactivity/publications/trs916/en/gsfao_osteo.pdf

I love arugula, I don't think it boosts anything though in the amounts I eat. Leafy veggies in general have low amounts of everything and you're never gonna eat that much unless you're a rawist.. I prefer to have smaller meals, where I don't have to choke down 100 lettuce heads.

I do not test my levels, I don't think my doctor knows what he's doing so there's that. I'm lean and healthy, no issues or pains. I'll probably go get checked when I hit 40 but until then I'm saving some money.

[Anonymous No.5734159]

>>5734106
Yeah, peanuts look bad on paper for their omega 6 content. For protein density they're pretty great.

This video is what convinced me that walnuts were a good addition to my daily diet

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/which-nut-fights-cancer-better/

[Anonymous No.5734162]

>>5734110
Think I'll try this with some wheat berries I have

[Anonymous No.5734167]

>>5734122
>tells everyone to eat almost an entire loaf of bread every day to lose weight
what? That was just a study he was citing to highlight a point

I agree with him on gmos as far as health is concerned. GMOs if they cause a problem is more likely to be environmental

[Anonymous No.5734182]

>>5734149
go here and check out the table on page 71:
http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2004/9241546123.pdf?ua=1

please reconsider how much calcium you should take, anon. i feel like you got some bad info somewhere along the line.

check this out, jump to the 59 minute mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7KeRwdIH04

[Anonymous No.5734237]

>>5734167
I can understand your point of view. I've just been really slapped in the face by morpheus with the red pill about all these corporations, I try as hard as I can to get everything organic or at least non-gmo because I don't like the conventional or gmo standards. I don't trust that my food has had its genetics tinkered with in a lab and then they add way too much pesticides. I just feel so much safer eating organic because it hasn't been messed with and its much cleaner. I get what you are saying though and I eat organic as much for the health reasons as I do it to not contribute to the destruction of the environment. peace anon.

[Anonymous No.5734241]

>>5734167
I don't like it how he tries to go out of his way to imply that gmo's are "not" bad. and then he says how he isn't working for monsanto because obviously so many people accuse him after the stupid things he says. he could have given the same exact message but no, he had to say that people were wrong about gmo's and be a jerk. I don't trust him. there is a huge amount of irresponsible use of genetic modification and its applications and for him to go "nah nah its nothing" makes me lose all respect for him. I know he is trying to make a point but screw this dude. screw him.

[Anonymous No.5734246]

>>5734182
I don't understand what you're saying? I linked you to the WHO's recommendations of 400-500mg and I said you should have DECENT amounts of 25-OH-D. You're linking me to a table that compares elderly with super low levels of 20 and 1000mg of calcium. That table says they're having fractures which of course is the case. I don't see your point here, I'm saying you should have a value around 45-50 (above that there are no studies showing benefits of vitamin D).

Greger is basing that statement on that one study? I think he's confused there, again check with the WHO. The 1000mg+ value is thanks to the dairy industry. There is no scientific evidence that you need that much, check my previous pdf. Watch:

min 15:20 onwards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDrx9vI3lA4#t=936

tl;dr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh05yCLzhC4

[Anonymous No.5734252]

>>5734241
I think you're misinterpreting him. He's had to deal with a lot of bullshit for the past 40 years. Especially with these paleo/atkins fanatics. He's sick of it and probably views the GMO thing as another scapegoat not to eat your vegetables and change to a plant based diet. Think about it, I'm sure if you get to talk to him personally he'll tell you to buy organic locally sustainably grown foods, heck, even grow them yourself. But when he's trying to convince an audience and entire population to eat better, a lot of people won't have the time to understand GMOs/Organic labelling and won't have the money to afford it.

I agree GMOs are horrible. I agree monsanto should be locked behind bars for having IP rights to a life form. But I'd rather see people eat GMO vegetable diet than GMO McDonald's.

[Anonymous No.5734256]

>>5734237
Alright man. Do what you got to do
>>5734241
That's just his personality. He's very uncompromising about things. I think his position is just that there's not enough evidence yet for him to care about the issue when the evidence is overwhelming that western diets are killing people.

[Anonymous No.5734265]

>>5733763
>Are you interested in having a plant based general around /ck/ where we can have a constructive, fair and non judgemental discussion about why eating plants is healthier than eating animal products?
Delusional vegans.

[Anonymous No.5734267]

>>5734246
Nigger, I'm on my phone right now, I can't be double checking shit this instant but you need more calcium nigger. Eat more calcium. Stop trying to blame rdas on industry

[Anonymous No.5734271]

>>5734252
totally understand what you are saying. his message really infuriates me, I would think so much different of him if he let a bunch of pro organic, anti monsanto people talk to him so he could get that big wow moment and understand why so many people are against gmo food.

maybe he could go on stage and say something like

"all this stuff is a trick, eat healthy, BUT- try to eat organic!"

instead of

"all this stuff is a trick, even gmos!!

[Anonymous No.5734277]

>>5734256
I absolutely know that the greasy meat based fried food highly processed american diet is hurting people, and there is loads of evidence on that, but I know in my heart that the reason we don't have alot of solid evidence on the harmful effects of the pesticides and gmo's is because someone out there is creating massively manipulated biased studies and results that cater to their profits or something.

I'm just going to keep on eating organic and hope that I get the opportunity to be blessed enough to grow all my own food on clean untainted land.

[Anonymous No.5734280]

>>5734265
delusional for believing that trolls and shills wont raid the thread on /ck/... yea.

but good on OP for wanting a good discussion.

[Anonymous No.5734282]

>>5734267
Yeah no, sorry. I think I'd rather stick with the WHO and Dr. McDougall and what I have personally experienced on this diet for the past 5 years. You do realize that the way they've established RDA/RDI in the US is by averaging a few thousand people, right? You realize they were all people on a SAD? I sincerely doubt how much you live the plant based diet at this point. I gave you reasonable evidence why 400-500mg is enough, if I misunderstood your/Greger's point I'm all up for debate.

[Anonymous No.5734328]

Been on that kind of diet for a year and a half so far I think, things are going pretty well. The only problem I have is being on /ck/ where people have an irrational hatred of veganism, and usually little or no knowledge of nutrition (though occasionally you get the guy who reads low carb blogs and thinks he's received a proper education because he bought into some dumb conspiracy thought up by book-selling charlatans).

It feels exactly the same as when I became atheist and that wasn't the most accepted thing to be at the time, and whenever atheism was mentioned among Christians or any other religious group, you just got bombarbed with repeats of the same logical fallacies and ignorant assumptions from people who you can tell don't know enough about what they're upset about to be justifiably angry, but also refuse to learn. And all the same, you'd run into "the theist scholar" who believed he could disprove evolution scientifically while also proving that the earth is 6000 years old and that Noah's flood is why the grand canyon exists, using bullshit data from bullshit websites that aren't accepted by mainstream science.

There's a quote that goes, "all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." I think eventually this kind of diet will gain more acceptance among the public, as it's already proven itself in the medical literature.

I recommend you guys check out plantpositive's videos if you haven't; he breaks down a lot of arguments from paleo promoters and explains misleading studies used to promote low carb diets

http://plantpositive.com/

[Anonymous No.5734334]

>>5734328
>that entire section about being an atheist
this is why people don't like vegans sometimes. just shut up. just shut up about the religion. if you can't get the plants out of your ears, then why am i here?

[Anonymous No.5734341]

>>5733763
"turn" again and see that humans and animals evolved together, and it's natural for humans to consume smaller amounts of dairy/meat

people just eat way too much of the stuff, and only focus on the meat. people used to eat the offal and marrow more often, which all has different nutrition from meat.

you shouldn't compare vegetables to meat. you should compare vegetables to all edible animal products combined.

[Anonymous No.5734352]

>>5734334
if you don't like plants, why ARE you here?

[Anonymous No.5734354]

>>5734341
>please don't stop eating meat! even just a little cmon! pls!

pathetic.

[Anonymous No.5734662]

>>5734328

>First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Unfortunately for you, falsehoods are also commonly ridiculed and violently opposed - there is no guarantee that those stages are transitional rather than permanent. The fact that you use the existence of opposition as if it somehow vindicates your viewpoints makes me skeptical of everything you say.

Firstly you ridicule people for their incredible education, and then you finish by recommending youtube channels rather than the medical studies you boast about? You're choosing what you want to believe as much as anyone else, and you're ignorant to other viewpoints as much as anyone else.

[Anonymous No.5734854]

>>5734246
you looked at the wrong table, moron. Page 71, not page 50. Look at the numbers on the pages themselves. WHO recommends 1000 mg for adults

[Anonymous No.5734977]

>>5734854
And this is why nobody likes you.

Fact:
1. You base your argument on Greger's argument, which is based on one study as he says so in the video you linked.
2. You claim to eat a plant based diet, albeit you have no idea what that does to your body as indicated by the lack of understanding what I'm trying to tell you (alkaline ph levels, consumption of much less sulfur AA, overall lesser inflammation of the body etcetc).
3. You base your argument on a graph without having read any of the texts provided with it.
4. That 1000mg recommendation is NOT based on a vegan diet, it is in fact based on a standard diet, they even say they base this particular RDI on the US and western EU populations.

Now, let me educate you because you're really pathetic. The link I provided you takes into account how much is needed for the body to maintain calcium caused disease free living. That data takes into account the Asian population which lived on a completely different diet than the West. Even in your article the WHO says "As indicated earlier and for the reasons given, the Consultation concluded
that the mean apparent calcium requirement of adults in developed countries
is about 520mg". The reason they bump it up is because they fucking know eating the way these amerifats eat causes them to retain less calcium.

Now, please take your pants and go home. Next time you call someone a moron look into the mirror and think about what you're saying.

[Anonymous No.5735004]

>>5733763
>I've been "turned"
So I guess somebody will have to put a steak through you

[Anonymous No.5735033]

>>5734977
And you're basing your argument on what? An outdated theory of calcium and ph levels, something that was never more than theoretical (in the non scientific meaning of the term)? Your asinine fear and mistrust of American medical associations? Your belief that vegetarians have lower calcium needs, which is a complete myth?

The link you provided is the bare minimum, 500 is the minimum for preventing osteoporosis. That's what that article is about. WHO recommends 1000mg for optimal health. This is their recommendation. The title of the paper I linked is "Vitamin and mineral requirements in human nutrition." That 1000 number is their recommendation for calcium "requirements for human nutrition." I don't know why you're so emotionally committed to denying this fact, and it is a fact.

And I've been a vegan for 8 years you paranoid shit head. I was only trying to help.

[Anonymous No.5735048]

>>5734662

>falsehoods are also commonly ridiculed and violently opposed

One difference is that among medical professionals, this kind of diet is widely accepted and even used to treat serious illnesses. It's mainly the uneducated public who are less receptive to the idea. According to this Australian survey:

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v60/n7/full/1602387a.html

People more accepting of a plant-based diet are university-educated people and younger people, while uneducated people and older people set in their ways are more likely to be opposed.

>Firstly you ridicule people for their incredible education, and then you finish by recommending youtube channels rather than the medical studies you boast about?

I was assuming I was talking mainly to people who are already eating this diet and, like OP, had done prior research. Plantpositive is a great source of medical studies, and more importantly offers complete refutations of common fallacious arguments used to promote diets heavy in animal foods.

[Anonymous No.5735110]

>>5735033
>Your asinine fear and mistrust of American medical associations?
Partially, the data also stems from people eating a SAD.

>Your belief that vegetarians have lower calcium needs, which is a complete myth?
Man I'm not even going to go on, you're clearly a shill by the daiy/WAP industry/foundation.

>WHO recommends 1000mg for optimal health.
No. It says you need 520mg, that's it. 400-500mg for disease FREE living. I'm not going to repeat myself, the paper you linked even said this, look back at my quote from it. You're confused and not listening, a sad amerifat should definitely eat his 1000mg-1500mg not because that is what his body needs, but because of his overall devestating nutrition. Just scroll down on your linked paper and see how the WHO talks about this (p72-80).

>muh 8 year veganism
Sure, bro. Stop being a dickhead then. You started talking down on me first, your immaturity really shows and through that the blind following of what authority says. Do you really not understand how much a pure plant based diet is beneficial to your health? Low sodium, adequate magnesium, high vit. D and vit. K are all factors FOR bone health which are severly increased in a plant based diet, as well as everything that works against bone health is decreased.

Again, I base it on what Dr. McDougall has said on the subject and the evidence presented by the WHO. Stop skewing information to make it look like we need fortified soy milk and enabling others to fall back into dairy. You're doing tremendous damage with this shilling, think about the people and stop adherring to your fat cow masters.

[Anonymous No.5735116]

mfw vegans fighting among themselves and calling each other "shit head", "paranoid", "shill". that's exactly the attitude why everyone hates you fellas, you're so apathetic it's uncomfortable to talk to you

lol you guys are so confused, no wonder though. low protein and not enough vitamins. you better "turn" back into an omnivore or else you'll end up killing yourselves.

ayy lmao

[Anonymous No.5735187]

>>5735116

>oww, my angina! someone get my statins!

[Anonymous No.5735188]

>>5733763
>Alright /ck/, I've been "turned" and I've seen the true diet of human beings.
Enjoy your cult, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.5735205]

>>5735188

>calls other peoples' diet a cult
>your diet involves animal sacrifice

[Anonymous No.5735214]

>>5735205
It's not sacrifice, you dimwitted moron. That would imply ritualistic killing and/or religious pretext, which does not have anything to do with sustenance eating. (Unless your some hyper religious nutjob). But, thanks for the added hysterical post, just proves my point.

[Anonymous No.5735220]

>>5735214

>thanksgiving comes
>WE MUST SLAUGHTER THIS TURKEY TO PRAISE OUR ANCESTORS

[Anonymous No.5735245]

>>5735220
What the fuck ever, fag. More hysteria, I see. I eat turkey because I fucking love the taste of it, not because I have any urge to "honor my ancestors". I roast turkeys several times a year, not just at Thanksgiving. Turkey broth is the king of broths. Not to mention that many people don't eat turkey, even at Thanksgiving, because they don't like it. You are confusing what the public does with what the turkey producers advertise and promote. Got any more bullshit hysterics?

[Anonymous No.5735254]

>>5735110
>your immaturity really shows
Jesus christ. You're the one who started saying I wasn't even a vegetarian because I was disagreeing with you and now you're calling me a shill. Grow up, man.

[Anonymous No.5735257]

>>5735245

>W-whatever...
>F-fuck you...

I rest my case.

[Anonymous No.5735271]

>>5735254
>starts calling me nigger, moron
>says I said he's not a vegan first

way to go, mate. if you think you can deter people from eating a healthy whole plant based diet by scaring them with a high calcium RDI without any substance or proof you're the one who needs to grow up, i'm already a grown up.

[Anonymous No.5735287]

>>5735271
The use of the word nigger was congenial.

Eat a vitamin, retard.

[Anonymous No.5735402]

>>5735287
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqN4sGaLn10

[Anonymous No.5735513]

>>5734328
I have this stone that might cure cancer. Everyone should buy a chunk and keep it near them until it is proven otherwise. Also don't worry about using those other cancer meds while you have my stone.

[Anonymous No.5735534]

>>5735048
>medical personnel
>knowledgeable about nutrition

You assume that doctors of diseases are authorities on diet. In the united states and many countries doctors are not even required to take a single nutrition class.

Certainly certain doctors such as endocrinologists will be knowledgeable about how metabolism works, but among those professions, you will see a much larger percentage speaking out against conventional diets

[Anonymous No.5735535]

>>5735513

If said stone was clinically proven to cure cancer, then yeah, everyone should have a chunk of it. Who could disagree with that?

[Anonymous No.5735539]

>>5735535
>clinically proven

I do not think these words mean what you think they mean

[Anonymous No.5735544]

>>5734110
>Definitely better than 2 scrambled eggs and bacon

I beg to differ

[Anonymous No.5735565]

>>5735534

>Certainly certain doctors

And in that newsgrab, you see the support of a guy who's set to become the President of the American College of Cardiology. Likewise, another Master of the American College of Cardiology who's also been the chief editor of the American Journal of Cardiology for the past 3 decades supports this diet and considers humans biologically herbivores

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/

As well as the former President of the Cleveland Clinic (considered the world's #1 hospital for cardiac care for the last 20 years) using this diet to reverse heart disease (the leading cause of death in America) in patients with arterial health so poor that surgery couldn't even save them

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7500065

[Anonymous No.5735566]

>>5735257
The only case your resting is your big fat ass. I fully explained myself, but that's mightly nigglywiggly of you to take the single opening sentence and try and make a "case" out of it. That lack of critical aminos and nutrients is really fucking up your brain power.

[Anonymous No.5735572]

>>5735539

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9863851

Clinical trial, heart disease cured with a low-fat, plant-based diet

[Anonymous No.5735573]

>>5735535
*citation needed

[Anonymous No.5735612]

>>5735565
Two problems with that doctors practice. First the study does not clarify if the patients had heart attacks before or after stopping the diet. this makes a big difference when evaluating the health of those that continued the diet and those that stopped. If they had a heart attack and gave up, that 100% disease free record would look more like 22%.

Secondly it completely bases the results on a low cholesterol level. Despite numerous studies showing that a low cholesterol level does not prevent cardiovascular disease. And that countries with high cholesterol levels often have the lowest instances of cardiovascular disease.


The study also did not bother to track other risk factors such as smoking, obesity and exercise.

[Anonymous No.5735641]

>>5735572
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9863851
>adherence to diet measured with 3 3 day food journals over 5 years. Patients were not asked if food recorded was typical diet for them.
>control group diet was also low fat. So low fat diet did better than low fat diet, not normal diet, or high fat diet.
>plant based included dairy eggs and fish
>less than 50% of participants data was used.
>total study size was under 40 people
>experiment group twice as likely to die as control group
>did not record other possible causes of cardiovascular disease such as obesity, smoking, and lack of exercise.

[Anonymous No.5735744]

OP here, can we stop with the wanking around? This isn't what I wanted the thread to turn into.

>>5735565
I see you everywhere all the time, your attitude really doesn't work. If you want plant strong diets to prevail, take a breath and step back a little.

>>5735612
The culling of america is all thanks to you and the masters you serve. Most people that are smart enough will realize that you're just feeding them what they want to hear.


Now, please let's be constructive. We had a few good posts in the beginning, I don't think citing studies here and there will ever lead to a conclusive argument, just watch the great USDA debate and you'll see that nothing comes out of such a discussion. Instead, let's focus to help one another realize in simple ways how easy dietary changes can be made for people interested in this. I'm not trying to convert anyone, but if there are people interested or on the fence, I think we should try our best to embrace such curiosity and give it the food it needs to thrive.

Also, don't fight among yourselves. I know you all have big egos and veganism is one of the many traits that personally identifies you, but try to work together - you're behind the same message and the more fighting we have within, the more power and fuel the neo-atkins charlatans get.

Anyone that thinks plant based diets are scientifically unsound or unsupported hasn't done the research. Research =/= paleo gurus/blogs with no medical credentials.

>>5735534
To my point above, it is true that most don't get such extensive training, but among the current leaders (see my OP image) you have highly educated professionals that do understand nutritional science. So please look to such authority, instead of Mark Sisson or Denise Minger.

[Anonymous No.5735746]

>>5734354
>greentext makes me right

fatass.

[Anonymous No.5736457]

http://herohealthroom.com/2014/07/18/dont-care-plant-based-diet/

[Anonymous No.5736900]

>>5735612

The people who stayed on the diet had no further cardiac events, all the patients who went off the diet continued to get worse and suffer more cardiac events. The focus was on cholesterol levels because cholesterol is the root cause of cardiovascular disease, and by lowering it enough, as the study proves, you can halt and reverse the disease. Obesity, sedentary lifestyle, stress, smoking, etc by themselves cannot cause heart disease, only worsen it.

>>5735641

In Ornish's trial, it was people getting 6-8% of their calories from fat in the experimental group versus people getting 25-30% in the control group, which is not a low fat diet. Of course they wouldn't make the control group some 70% fat Atkins diet, they weren't trying to actively kill the control group. In the experimental diet he allowed up to one serving a day of either fat-free yogurt or skim milk, egg whites (no yolk), or fish oil capsules (no fish), since it wouldn't significantly affect the fat or dietary cholesterol intake.

>experiment group twice as likely to die as control group

I'm glad you mentioned the 2 vs 1 fatal heart attacks in the experimental group. Barry Sears tried to get Ornish with that at the USDA great nutrition debate, and I'll let the man explain that data himself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feCpP40ZHqI#t=2h40m44s

[Anonymous No.5737227]

>>5733971
well, as a strict vegetarian you really don't have any other options unless you're mentally deranged like freelee the banana girl and think it makes sense to eat 50 pounds of fruit and vegetable a day. Starch foods are preferable just because they're more calorie dense than anything else.

[Anonymous No.5737315]

Wow I just watched this and it's been eye opening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k48eWBlb7MY&index=49&list=UUjtpP3jb9LOpbGxdNQhk3Qg

I'm convinced we will not get nutrition reform or any kind of help from the government to reverse chronic diseases. The industry is too big. I didn't even know that in 2014 now medical doctors have no idea what the human being should be eating.

They do not konw, I repeat, what we as human beings, the commodity they're treating, should be eating. Lol, what the hell. If I went to the Vet with my dog and he didn't know what my dog was supposed to be eating, I'd get the hell out of there.

[Anonymous No.5738106]

>>5734352
i never said i don't like plants... jesus christ.

did you honestly just not read my post? and you only saw what you wanted to see me say? read it again, chucklefuck.