/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.5644293]

/ck/

im thinking of buying a kitchen knife
needs to be budget friendly

should I buy a homemade knife from etsy to get a good material and keep it sharp?

or do I buy from a company and keep it sharp?

what are some good knife brands?

[Anonymous No.5644365]

just get some farberware shit or something, you can just replace it and they're pretty decent for a while for the price

[Anonymous No.5644382]

>>5644293

If you are honestly concerned about budget look at steels, not brands

Most carbon steel knives available today are going to be above average in performance, but you have to rinse and dry them. The fancy named carbon knives will be really nice but it's not like you can easily go wrong with carbon, in the same way that you can with stainless.

For stainless anything VG-1, VG-10, and AEB-L should be budget friendly and still deliver performance. No-name stainless, and anything German or Swiss is shit, they're basically the 1980s Detroit of cutlery. Only nostalgia keeps them alive.

I hope you know how to use a whetstone.

[Anonymous No.5645281]

>>5644293
Just get cutco, free sharpening for life

[Anonymous No.5645289]

>>5644293
>budget friendly
>custom knife from etsy

C'mon man that doesn't even make sense. Check out thrift stores near you, I guarantee you can find a decent chef's knife. You can get a stone at the hardware store for 10 bucks.

[Anonymous No.5645299]

>>5644382
All Wüsthof knives, except Gourmet and Silverpoint series, (dont buy those) have the formula "X 50 Cr Mo V 15" etched into their blade, signifying that each is made with 0.5% carbon, 15% chromium and unspecified but smaller amounts of molybdenum and vanadium.

This steel is superior for kitchen knives of home users because it will stay sharp for ages and can be kept up for years with a simple honing steel in average use.

The steels you are talking about are harder and so brittle that slicing fish means you have to resharpen the damn thing on a wet stone.

Op, if you want to be japanese buy a piece of shit vg knife with a failing wooden bullshit handle for way too much money.

Vg1 is made with less chromium (sub optimal) than X50CrMoV15. Vg10 is made with cobalt and manganese which do othing but make the steel more expensive. Both vg steels are too high in carbon, and form carbon deposits theough out the steel this is partly what makes them more brittle and causes the need for sharpening more often. Aeb-l is actually good shit, again german in origin. Originally designed for use in long lasting razor blades. Its composition is very similar to the X50CrMoV15 i. Wustoff steel. Slightly higher in carbon than wustoff, slightly lower than vg - and again with trace amounts of a handful of different elements which make it again more expensive.

If you want to be smart about it, buy a kitchen knife engineered by professionals in germany. They might not make their steel out of an easy to remember vg name but even though it has been impossible for the weeb folk to remember the name of and latch into X50CrMoV15 is a superior steel for the home cook in every way.

[Anonymous No.5645304]

>>5645299
>less chromium is bad
This is what Germans actually believe

[Anonymous No.5645312]

>>5645299
>This steel is superior for kitchen knives of home users because it will stay sharp for ages and can be kept up for years with a simple honing steel in average use.

I disagree. I find that Wusthofs don't hold an edge as long as even a cheap-ass carbon steel knife, and they are also more work to sharpen.

[Sage No.5645326]

>>5645304
sharpen a knife with chromium, then go sharpen a superior german steel with chromium. It will take you twice as long to sharpen the chromium steel. This is because it holds an edge better and is a STRONGER steel than weak ass weeb steel.

Seriously sushi chefs sharpen their blades after EVERY SERVICE and all they do is cut delicate fish, cooked rice, scrambled eggs, and avacado. 4 of the softest foods in the world.

Meanwhile i've had to sharpen my wustoffs once in the last 7 years of ownership.

[Anonymous No.5645327]

>>5645312
I agree. My dad bought me a set of Wusthof knives several years ago for Christmas and they don't hold an edge for more then a few uses, even with honing them regularly each time I use them. They take a long time to sharpen on my stones and get a nice edge, but again, after a few uses I need to sharpen them again.

I'm about done with them, been thinking about investing in some better knives and re-gifting these damn Wusthofs to someone else and let them deal with it.

[Sage No.5645337]

>>5645312
>More work to sharpen, dont hold an edge as long

This is what weeb idiots actually believe.

[Anonymous No.5645341]

>>5644293
Why not make your own? It's pretty easy, fun and rewarding.

[Anonymous No.5645374]

>>5645326
>It will take you twice as long to sharpen the chromium steel.

Correct.

>>This is because it holds an edge better and is a STRONGER steel than weak ass weeb steel.

No, it's because stainless steel has poor machinability due to the Chromium content. Strength has nothing to do with it. In fact, the more Chromium you add, the weaker the steel gets. The purpose of the Chromium is corrosion resistance, and it's a simple trade-off. The more Chromium, the more resistant to rust, but the softer the edge.

Sushi chefs sharpen their knives often because they're cutting a lot of volume and they also cut super thin slices of soft foods. The softer the food is the sharper the blade needs to be to cut it cleanly....and none of that is even relevant for a home cook. Who gives a crap about what sushi chefs do unless you're a sushi chef?

Now then I agree that it's a very practical steel for a home cook--mainly because it can take so much abuse. But it is incorrect to claim that it's harder or stronger than many alternatives.

[Anonymous No.5645382]

>>5644293
If you're going to get a handmade knife don't go through Etsy. Find someone local, so you can inspect their work in person and such, plus support a local business.

[Anonymous No.5645403]

>>5645337
I didnt know we had german knife shills on /ck/.

[Anonymous No.5645404]

>>5645326
>I've only had to sharpen my wusthof once in 7 years

Opinion discarded

[Anonymous No.5645417]

>>5645326
>Meanwhile i've had to sharpen my wustoffs once in the last 7 years of ownership.

[Sage No.5645448]

>>5645374
Stronger in terms of machineability and edge holding is true though. Which is all that matter in a home knife. No one uses home knife steel to support tons of weight, or as a hammer...

Strength of steel can only be taken in context as it is a layman's term.

I can understand you arguing if he had said tensile strength, malleability, brinell hardness... And even then, those things mean little to someone that just wants a knife to hold an edge and carve through foodstuffs.

[Anonymous No.5645452]

>>5645299
>aeb-l is German

Lolno

[Sage No.5645455]

>>5645417
>>5645404

I sharpened it three years ago.. And its probably about time to get whetstones out... However, it still slices paper thin tomatoes easily.

Discard my opinion if you want, you guys just dont realize how superior X50CrMoV15 is.

[Anonymous No.5645456]

Go on Amazon and search "Non Stick Sushi Knife" the pic should be the first result, very inexpensive and very nice knife, its a this blade so it needs proper care, but I work as a prep cook and have been using mine for months now nearly every day. Only takes a little sharpening to return it to its full sharpness after a lot of use. Its the best knife in our whole kitchen for fruits vegetables and most prep, it'll still do a great job on tougher things like meat, but for meats a thicker blade tends to be a better option. Get this for an inexpensive great knife and if you treat it well it will be worth every penny and more.

[Anonymous No.5645460]

>>5644293

Op, first off, DON'T get a completely flat knife like that, it'll be hard to chop shit up cause you can rock the knife back and fourth

go to like ross or walmart or some shit and by a knife for like 8 bucks.

Or raid parents old knives for something that looks sturdy and sharpen it.

Either way a good french chefs knife or chinese chefs knife will be good for like 95% of what you need it for.

The only thing a chefs knife aint good for is carving meat, so unless you're buying like lambs shanks and or are trying to cut meats of legs before its cooked you're set..

[Sage No.5645467]

>>5644382
>aeb-l steel is awesemoh
>swiss and german is shit

Aeb-l is produced by uddeholm and sandvik and both are swiss companies.

This is what japanese knife shills know.

[Anonymous No.5645473]

>>5644382
Yfw top japanese knife manufacturers are importing german and swiss steel.

[Anonymous No.5645484]

>>5645467
Sweden is not Switzerland, ignorant american

[Anonymous No.5645502]

>>5645484
The entirety of Europe still isn't a prefecture of Imperial Japan weeb.

[Anonymous No.5645504]

>>5645403
Shitty Shun

[Anonymous No.5645505]

>>5645502

The only person who seems to be talking about Japan is you, the weeb-accuser. I didn't see anyone in this thread recommend a Japanese knife.

[Anonymous No.5645513]

>>5645505
You don't know the origin of vg steel then.

[Anonymous No.5645519]

>>5645513
I suppose the Germans invented that too, yes?

Get over it, German knife lover. Your knives are made with 1950s metallurgy and are directly responsible for the urban legend that stainless knives can't be good. Must feel pretty bad?

[Anonymous No.5645534]

>>5645513

Who in this thread was recommending VG1? The only mention of I found was german knife guy saying it wasn't as good as his precious Wusthof alloy.

[Anonymous No.5645546]

>>5645534
>>5644382
Here

I suggested it because vg1 knives are often found on super clearance and are about the same cost as fibrox at those prices

At full retail vg10>>vg1, obviously

[Anonymous No.5646002]

>>5645504
>implying supergold II is bad

[Anonymous No.5646388]

>>5645455
even a dull knife can do that

[Anonymous No.5646570]

>>5645473

I'd like to see one example of a Japanese knife manufacturer importing either German or Swiss steel.

It simply doesn't happen.

Germany on the other hand is tripping over itself making "Japan-inspired" knife models with the latest Japanese steels and blade profiles.

Could it be that they finally understand that they've lost credibility with the average person?

>spoiler: that means you're a below average person

[Anonymous No.5646608]

>>5646570
>I'd like to see one example of a Japanese knife manufacturer importing either German or Swiss steel.

Misono makes two lines with Swedish steel; one is the UX10 series and the other is "Professional Sweden Steel Series"; pic related is the latter.

JCK Inazuma has a Swedish steel core; also their Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan series is stocked in Swedish steel.

[Anonymous No.5646622]

>>5646608

Those Misonos are great knives, but I'm not sure why you quoted me.

[Anonymous No.5646627]

Suisin Inox are 19C27 Swedish

AEB-L (German) is used in several Japanese lines: Richmond Fanadic, Takayuki Grand Chef

Though, the VAST majority of the Japanese knife makers use domestic steel

[Anonymous No.5646635]

>>5646622

Read the quote. You asked for an example of a Japanese knife maker importing steel. I have you such an example.

[Anonymous No.5646636]

>>5646627

AEB-L is made by the same people that make 19C27

[Anonymous No.5646643]

>>5646635

You read the quote. You claimed that the Japanese imported German and Swiss steel, and then you posted a random list of unrelated knives.

[Anonymous No.5646676]

>>5646643

Nothing random about the list. Those are examples of Japanese knives made with imported steel. It's not hard to follow. Now then I freely admit those are a tiny, tiny portion of the marketplace, but they are made with imported steel.

[Anonymous No.5646691]

>>5646676

Imported from countries that are neither Germany nor Switzerland, thus essentially random for purposes of this discussion.

Again, you (or someone) claimed that Japan imports *German* and *Swiss* steel.

I asked for examples. You were unable to provide any, because no examples exist.

[Anonymous No.5646712]

>>5646691
>Imported from countries that are neither Germany nor Switzerland, thus essentially random for purposes of this discussion.

Holy shit, I had no idea you were being this anal.

Two honest questions then:

1) How do you know where they get their steel from? Do you have copies of their shipping manifests?

2) Why does it matter? It seems the general argument here is german/swiss vs. other steels. Why does the location of its manufacture matter? Modern steels are made to a known formula with laboratory analysis and process control. The grade of a steel specifies it's analysis. That is the same no matter where it was made. It's not as if iron and carbon atoms in Germany are different from those in the USA or those in Japan. If the analysis is correct (and no knifemaker would accept an inbound shipment without verifying) then why does it matter if the melt was done in Essen or Kawasaki?

[Anonymous No.5646727]

>>5646712

Read the thread from the beginning.

The argument went

1.DE & CH a shit
2.Butthurt German guy claiming "top Japanese knife makers imports German and Swiss steel" as a rebuttal
3.I asked for examples
4.You jumped in and started spouting off about Sandvik

It's not anal. You're just not following the conversation.

Who knows where the iron was mined. Maybe Russia? Maybe Brazil? Maybe Australia? That wasn't the discussion. Stop making this about something that it isn't about.

[Anonymous No.5646763]

>>5646727
OK, that's what I thought.

So your claim is that these examples don't count because we don't know where the metal was mined? Really?

I'd like to repeat my earlier questions. Please answer them this time:

>>1) How do you know where they get their steel from? Do you have copies of their shipping manifests?

>>2) Why does it matter? It seems the general argument here is german/swiss vs. other steels. Why does the location of its manufacture matter? Modern steels are made to a known formula with laboratory analysis and process control. The grade of a steel specifies it's analysis. That is the same no matter where it was made. It's not as if iron and carbon atoms in Germany are different from those in the USA or those in Japan. If the analysis is correct (and no knifemaker would accept an inbound shipment without verifying) then why does it matter if the melt was done in Essen or Kawasaki?

>Stop making this about something that it isn't about.

that's my thoughts exactly. why are you arguing about where the iron was from? It doesn't matter. What matters with the "nationality" of the steel is who invented it and specified the formula. In my opinion "AEB-L" is German steel, since it was invented by a German company. It doesn't matter to anyone but you where the ore was mined so long as the analysis is to the proper standard.

[Anonymous No.5646770]

>>5646763

You're attempting to derail the conversation by asking unrelated rhetorical questions.

I will not reward your autism, but I will say that if Germany starts making cutlery steel on the same level as the stuff coming out of Sweden and Japan, then they may have a chance of being taken seriously in the future.

For now, however, that isn't happening.

Switzerland is irrelevant, I'm surprised anyone is even arguing about this.

[Anonymous No.5646780]

>>5646770
>You're attempting to derail the conversation by asking unrelated rhetorical questions.

Not at all. If you're going to claim my examples don't count for some reason you ought to at least explain yourself.

>>I will not reward your autism
Lol. I'm not the one claiming it's not germany steel unless it was melted in Germany.

Look. I'm on your side here. I agree that in general German steel isn't on the same level. I think that butthurt german knife guy is an idiot. I will choose a Japanese steel over a German steel any day of the week.

But, I belive it is incorrect to say that no Japanese maker uses foreign steels. They clearly do. Yes, it's purely for marketing purposes and even then represents a tiny slice of the market so their preferance for Domestic steels is clear. And I think your point that Japanese steel is superior to German is quite clear, nor is it refuted by the fact that there exist some small number of Japanese-made foreign steel knives. But it would be incorrect to say that such things don't exist at all.

[Anonymous No.5646787]

>>5646780

My argument is crystal clear. Only a retard, a troll, or a person with some kind of mental disorder would think this was a discussion of where the iron atoms came from. I'm not sure which of the three you are (perhaps several).

This was never about Japan using "foreign steels". You seem to have confused this for a katana vs broadsword debate.

I'm going to go watch netflix now, you can spaz out now about whether 19c27 is actually Liberian because the ship carrying the ore is registered there. Good night.

[Anonymous No.5646794]

>>5646787

why so buttmad?

[Anonymous No.5646799]

>>5646787
>This was never about Japan using "foreign steels".


>I'd like to see one example of a Japanese knife manufacturer importing either German or Swiss steel.

pick one retard

[Anonymous No.5646802]

Got this for my mom since she liked the feel more than Shun and German knives. Not even slippery when wet. Fairly easy to sharpen and holds a decent edge.

[Anonymous No.5646808]

>>5645484
it is germanic though

[Anonymous No.5646811]

>>5646794
>>5646799
he did the netflix thing so he could find an easy way out of the hole he dug himself and he has too much autism to admit defeat

lol weebs

[Anonymous No.5646817]

>>5646811
I went to a Williams Sonoma and they said Japanese knives are brittle and weak, while recommending me German knives because they are more durable and sharp. Is this true?

[Anonymous No.5646819]

>>5646817
i went to your mom's house and she said japanese dicks are brittle and weak

[Anonymous No.5646820]

>>5646819
That's nice dear.

[Anonymous No.5646823]

>>5646820
just like your mom was in bed last night ;)

[Anonymous No.5646832]

Japaneseknifeimports.com is the best. Take it from a knife nut. Pic related, some of mine. Call Jon, the owner. He will not try to upsell.

[Anonymous No.5646840]

>>5646832
>watersprash

[Anonymous No.5646850]

>>5646840

Knife nut from the post above, checking in. I just got a Higo no Kami:

[Anonymous No.5646902]

>>5646770
>on the same level
Can you define this level of yours without resorting to ambiguous claims of preference?

[Anonymous No.5646949]

>>5646832
How much money have you wasted on that shit mang?

[Anonymous No.5646953]

>>5646949
Wasted? None. All are in my rotation, and it's a satisfying hobby. I've also taught myself how to sharpen & polish professionally, so I have side income from flipping knives. I'd rather collect fictional things than useless objects.

[Anonymous No.5646955]

>>5646949
do you go to the anime board and ask them the same thing?
the toy board?
the technology board?
any other boards that have people who collect and use things?

[Anonymous No.5646956]

>>5646953
>functional*

[Anonymous No.5646960]

>>5646955
I would if the anime, toys, technology were wasteful and shitty.

Dude could have bought a solingen chefs knife and pairing knife and been done with it. Blades would have stayed sharper longer too.

[Anonymous No.5646961]

>>5645456
solid non-shilling post anon

[Anonymous No.5646963]

>>5646953
>flipping knives
balisong?

[Anonymous No.5646965]

>>5646960
And here's the German soft steel shill.

[Anonymous No.5646966]

>>5646960
I don't know how to take that response seriously, so I'm just gonna call you a noob and be done with it. You don't know shit about kirenaga.

[Anonymous No.5646967]

>>5646960
Wasteful and shitty in your worthless opinion, perhaps. Seriously, get out more and learn how to not be an ass.

[Anonymous No.5646973]

>>5646963
Nah, buying cheap carbon cleavers from the Asian markets, cleaning and sharpening them, and then reselling.

[Anonymous No.5646978]

>>5646973
ahh.

[Anonymous No.5647012]

>>5644382
>Swiss is shit

[Anonymous No.5647022]

>>5644382
Amen to that, bruv.

[Anonymous No.5648028]

[Anonymous No.5648127]

>>5646902
>no one steel can be said to better or worse than any other steel

metallurgical relativist pls leave

also, I'm still waiting for the example of Japanese knife makers importing your German garbage steel

[Anonymous No.5648132]

>>5648127
>German garbage steel
Ever consider that there are different cultures and cuisines with different techniques, styles and needs?
Why does this shit anger you so much? Are you monetarily invested in Japanese knife manufacturing?

[Anonymous No.5648137]

>>5648132

why would I be angry? I didn't get fleeced by a knife huckster from solingen

[Anonymous No.5648159]

>>5648137
Only sheep get fleeced though.

[Anonymous No.5648164]

budget kitchen knife?

kiwi. no joke.

also

>>5645456
>>5645456
>>5645456
>>5645456