Thinly Veiled Vegan Propaganda Bullshit

File: 1.34 MB, 1920x1200, cloudy2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Thinly Veiled Vegan Propaganda Bullshit Anonymous Sat May 24 10:21:23 2014 No.5462205 [Reply] [Original]

Holy shit.
So, this morning I was hungover and just wanted to lay in bed and watch some mindless crap. This was at the top the page on Netflix, so I thought, eh...why not.
I have rarely seen such fucking screwed up vegan propaganda in movies.
>we can't kill the monster taco, it's a mother!
>just because it's living food, and we don't understand it, doesn't mean we should kill it!
>(villian) "Food doesn't have FEELINGS"
>aw, all the food bred and made families, we can't kill them!

Goddamn all of my rage. All of it.

Anonymous Sat May 24 10:50:22 2014 No.5462259

I eat meat, but I fully recognize that it's awful to do so. Why should another creature who can feel pain and understand suffering be killed just because I like bacon? It's quite horrible, actually. "B-b-but muh predator animals!". Sure, it's natural, but so what? Cats sometimes play with mice until they die. They torture them to death for fun. So do whales with seals. That doesn't make torturing animals for fun acceptable or not cruel.
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if people in a 100 years will look back and view our eating habits the same way society at large (i.e. not 4chan) looks back on slavery now.

In short, vegetarianism is unquestionably the ethically superior live style.

Anonymous Sat May 24 11:03:47 2014 No.5462285

>>5462259
Wrong.
The earth and it's ecosystems don't work that way, and whether we like to think so or not, we are not above that. One of the reasons we are destroying this planet is because we can't accept our role and place on this rock. We are part of the food chain, just like everything else, which includes killing something else so we can eat. Technology can do much, but it doesn't take away the fact that we are carbon based life forms on a planet evolved to use carbon based life forms as it's fuel. Deal with it.

Anonymous Sat May 24 11:26:48 2014 No.5462333

>>5462285
What a load of ignorant bullshit.
"The earth and it's ecosystems don't work that way, and whether we like to think so or not, we are not above that"
I never claimed this, I simply said that there isn't a reason why we should eat other animals. It sounds like you're implying we're somehow magically forced to kill and eat other animals. Weirdly moronic.

"One of the reasons we are destroying this planet is because we can't accept our role and place on this rock"
Cows produce vast amounts of green house gas, you fucking retard.

"Technology can do much, but it doesn't take away the fact that we are carbon based life forms on a planet evolved to use carbon based life forms as it's fuel. Deal with it."
So you're saying we'd die here in the year 2014 if we didn't kill animals? Are you really this ignorant? How can you even imply something as stupid as this drivel? It's perfectly possible to survive as a vegetarian.
You're not justified in killing animals. Deal with it.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 11:32:48 2014 No.5462351 >>5462285 I wanna through you out into the safari with nothing but your birthday suit.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 11:34:40 2014 No.5462357 File: 51 KB, 640x512, MV5BMTc4OTEyNDY4MV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMTE4ODYzNA@@._V1._SX640_SY512_[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'M FROM BUENOS AIRES AND I SAY KILL 'EM ALL!

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 11:38:54 2014 No.5462366 /ck/ - Television & Film

Anonymous Sat May 24 11:39:13 2014 No.5462367
File: 631 KB, 666x666, 1356458077940.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5462259
>I eat meat

No you don't. You're a vegan shitposter trying to curry favor with normal people. I just shot and dressed a turkey last week, the only unpleasant part was the smell of shit when gutting it.

>>	ETHANOL Sat May 24 11:48:47 2014 No.5462376 Just enjoy meat while you can, it will probably be an expensive luxury by the time we die. I bet 100 years from now most of our "meat" and proteins will be made in a laboratory and they'll find a way to make insects into some sort of palatable protein.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 11:59:49 2014 No.5462394 >>5462205 seriously? you are just so hateful towards people who eat vegetables and have personal preferences that you project your crap onto a silly kids movie.

Anonymous Sat May 24 12:00:05 2014 No.5462395

>>5462259
http://www.foodrenegade.com/why-im-not-vegan/

>Nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium — NPK — is the Triple Goddess of gardeners, the Troika of elements that rule plant growth. What did soil and plants eat and where would I get those substances? I hadn’t learned the phrase “closed-loop system,” but that was what I was after. Nitrogen was the big one. There are plants that fix nitrogen. Wasn’t that enough for my garden? Couldn’t it be? I begged. But I was begging a million living creatures who had organized themselves into mutual dependence millions of years ago. They had no use for my ethical anguish. No nitrogen-fixing plant could make up for all the nutrients I was taking out. The soil wanted manure. Worse, it wanted the inconceivable: blood and bones.

>There were other sources of nitrogen I could have applied. Right now, fossil fuel provides the nitrogen to grow crops the world over. Synthetic fertilizer is what created the green revolution, with its 250 percent increase in crops. Besides the fact that nothing made from fossil fuels is sustainable—we can’t grow fossil fuel and it doesn’t reproduce itself—synthetic fertilizers eventually destroy the soil.

>So synthetic nitrogen was out. And that left me facing animal products. Of course, the irony is that either source of nitrogen, synthetic or organic, comes from animals. Oil and gas are what’s left of the dinosaurs. So my choices—our choices, actually—were nitrogen from dead reptiles or from living ruminants.

>My garden wanted to eat animals, even if I didn’t.

All life requires death.
Whether it's the death of dinosaurs, far removed from you, or the immediate death of animals to provide the NPK to keep your soil fertile, you WILL need to kill to live.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:06:56 2014 No.5462408 >>5462395 and "meat eaters" treat their bones like trash. Missrepresentation on both parts

Anonymous Sat May 24 12:13:20 2014 No.5462420

>>5462367
It doesn't matter if you believe me. You and I are assholes for killing animals just because they're tasty.

>>5462395
Basically: "hurr eat meat because it uses less plants!"
Kill yourself, please. 1kg of meat takes 10kg of plant material. Just because agriculture needs manure doesn't mean we're totally right to damn near torture animals while they're growing. Are you really saying it's inconceivable that we'd be able to fertilize our soil with various kinds of manure - including human - and possibly farm animals that we actually treated decently?

"All life requires death."
It's funny, meat eaters trying to justify their clearly cruel actions sounds way, way, way more like hippies than vegetarians. Meat eaters have to say moronic shit like this. "Naw man, you see, it's just a, like, circle of life and death, man, don't you get it?" while the vegetarians I know just say: "it's healthier and I like animals too much".

Just face facts and accept that you and I are assholes for eating meat.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:15:32 2014 No.5462422 >>5462420 life does feed on life though Do you it goes on unfathomably on the micro-scale, why is it to be rejected here?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:16:32 2014 No.5462423 >>5462420 How's that infantile mindset worked out for you so far, guy? There are many things I don't "need" to do, but I don't "need" live in a cave and eat my own shit for sustenance while shitposting on 4chan to not be considered an asshole.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:25:27 2014 No.5462434 >>5462420 >damn near torture animals while they're growing So if the food you eat is farm raised, are they still tortured hippy?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:27:50 2014 No.5462437 >>5462259 Why does it matter if animals are killed for my pleasure? You can't prove it's immoral without resorting to emotional appeals.

Anonymous Sat May 24 12:39:51 2014 No.5462456

>>5462351
>into the safari

Okay, I'm cool with that. It's probably pretty hot on those cute little safari trucks, so being naked sounds pretty comfortable. I don't know how the other safari goers will take it, though. The bushmen will probably be cool with it.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:41:47 2014 No.5462460 >>5462333 It must be nice living in a fucking fairy tale, you STUPID PIECE OF SHIT. You don't know anything about livestock, animals, or science, it's quite obvious. Take your vegan fairy tales and get the fuck out.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:43:18 2014 No.5462463 File: 53 KB, 700x437, 08+meeting+himba[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5462456 bueno

Anonymous Sat May 24 12:44:25 2014 No.5462465

>>5462437
That animal has no consent, it doesn't have a say in the matter. It is wrong to force your wants on something who cannot fight back, it is wrong to torture something for very trivial and inconsequential reasons. You liking something is trivial because it doesn't add up to something bigger, there isn't something more important that it leads to. Just "mmmm! tasty!" and then you are done. Of course, there is the nutritional value you would get afterwards, but all nutrients that are found in meat are found in plant foods, so you really aren't aiming for a certain array of nutrients found in meat that you wouldn't be able to get elsewhere.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:44:32 2014 No.5462466 >>5462463 in after she got kicked out of school for showing up at a demonstration, and turned to S&M porno to pay the bills

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:46:50 2014 No.5462469 File: 47 KB, 700x572, tell-me-everything.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5462465 >this is what vegans actually believe

Anonymous Sat May 24 12:50:05 2014 No.5462472

I love eating meat, but the two extremes on this debate are ridiculous.

I don't find babby animals and slaughter them in front of their mother, but at the same time I'm not upset when I see animals slaughtered. If you gain pleasure from killing animals you are fucked up, but we all need to eat to survive. I'd say the systematic raising and slaughtering of animals is more humane than the slow painful deaths the wild animals would suffer from predators.

Anonymous Sat May 24 12:50:25 2014 No.5462473

>>5462205
I don't agree with all of the propaganda even as a vegan. I think it turns people off to veganism because they think it's attached to crazy hippies shoving spinach and tofu down everyone's throats. We need to educate people in a way that isn't connected to this sort of image. Kind of like Christianity. A lot of people don't want to believe in God because of people like the Westboro Baptist Church, or the southerners who tell people they're going to hell all the time, or the ones who kill in the name of God.

Let's approach this in a way that doesn't turn them off to it. It will just make them mad, and all their energy won't be going towards considering the veganism, it will go towards their anger.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:51:26 2014 No.5462474 >>5462469 If you disagree, tell me why.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:51:43 2014 No.5462476 >>5462465 Their literal existence is for the slaughter. It is what they've been bred for centuries to be used for. You sound like you're in grade school and are equating livestock to your pet dog Roofus.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:51:54 2014 No.5462477 >>5462259 I agree. While I eat meat, I recognize that it's ethically questionable.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:52:57 2014 No.5462478 >>5462333 learn to quote or rather just stay the fuck out of 4chan and stick to whatever tumblr tier shithole you come from

Anonymous Sat May 24 12:54:23 2014 No.5462481

>>5462476
I understand this, and this has been brought to my attention many times. I still don't know what to compose as a rebuttal for this, but I'm just telling you why it is wrong to kill something for your own pleasure. My reply would be different if you asked me why should we stop killing livestock since they were bred specifically to be eaten.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:55:21 2014 No.5462482 >>5462478 It's not even hard. Why would you not do it? It makes it 10x more likely that people will read your inane point by point "counter" argument.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:55:54 2014 No.5462484 >>5462465 Why is it wrong for animals to die for my pleasure? You've only repeated your earlier argument which is "because it's wrong!"

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:56:29 2014 No.5462485 >>5462481 But, as of now, it is the better choice to be vegan considering the horrible treatment these animals receive even if you think we should eat them in the end. The treatment doesn't have to be cruel, even if the end result might be.

Anonymous Sat May 24 12:59:11 2014 No.5462490

>>5462485
Imprisonment of a near-mindless animal isn't really all that cruel. You're applying human characteristics to completely different species.

But for health, though, a non-strict pescatarian diet filled with fruits and vegetables is probably the healthiest diet. (or that weird nip sweet potato one)

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 12:59:38 2014 No.5462492 >>5462205 all of that sounds like satire anon

Anonymous Sat May 24 12:59:44 2014 No.5462493

>>5462484
I just told you. Because the animal has no consent and it cannot make these decisions for itself. The pleasure you would get from this is inconsequential and trivial because it doesn't add up to anything more, just to please your palette for 30 or so minutes.

If you still think this is emotional appeal, tell why it is wrong to beat a dog, why it's wrong to kill people, why it's wrong to steal unnecessarily, why it's wrong to lie, etc.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:01:24 2014 No.5462499

>>5462493
>the animal has no consent and it cannot make these decisions for itself

The nature of self preservation kind of makes that a moot point. I don't think even if they could comprehend the animal agriculture industry that they would volunteer to have a bolt put through their skull so that red-blooded americans can cook them to a crisp and slather them in ketchup.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:03:42 2014 No.5462506 >>5462493 plants are also living things, they reproduce, they feed on nutrients and try to protect themselves from harm eating lettuce is murder we should all feed on rock and sand

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:05:10 2014 No.5462510

>>5462490
No, applying human characteristics would be saying that animals should have rights to education, voting, food stamps, etc. I'm applying to characteristics that the animal can correctly take advantage of, which is to avoid as much harm to them as possible.

They aren't near-mindless. A lot of these animals go crazy being stuck in these terrible conditions, they've had to cut off chicken's beaks just so they wouldn't pick at each other, cows scream and are in much emotional turmoil when their calves get taken away from them, the animals will just turn around in their cages because they are crazed with boredom, etc. They aren't mindless.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:09:34 2014 No.5462512

>>5462493
Why does it matter if the animal can't give consent or make informed decisions?

Why is it wrong to do all of those things? Because it'd adversely affect you in the end. Killing someone would only cause reprisal as would stealing from somebody and lying to them. Same with beating the a dog unnecessarily. People will be less likely to associate with you if you're violent.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:09:56 2014 No.5462514

>>5462510
near-mindless*

>>5462499
I'm not exactly understanding the point you are trying to make. Explain this to me differently please?

>>5462506
I understand this, but they do not have a CNS to be able to process these emotions. It's like they are perpetually euthanized--not even that. You aren't inflicting pain because they do not have the means to feel that pain, because to feel pain you need to have a brain to acknowledge you are in pain.
But, regardless, veganism is about minimizing harm, not completely cancelling it out. This is perfection, and perfection isn't something anyone can attain. We can all just try our best.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:10:40 2014 No.5462516

>>5462510
I've seen farm-raised chickens that could walk around entire fencelesss properties picking the fuck out of another hen's prolapsed anus, killing it. (apparently because they instinctively pick at red or something). The beak thing prevents things like this.

There is no way the calves would not get taken from their mothers, and cage syndrome is just a nature of the business. I'm apathetic about the whole situation, as it's a necessary yet unpleasant function.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:13:10 2014 No.5462521

>>5462422
I never said it didn't, I simply said that I find it reprehensible that we cause unnecessary suffering. You'd stop a child from beating the cat, right? Sure you would. But it's having fun. Why is the fun that the kid is having torturing your kid inferior to the pleasure you feel from eating bacon? It isn't, really.

>>5462423
>being this stupid
Are you implying that your life would have no pleasure if you didn't support an industry that is unimaginably cruel to animals? If so, I feel sorry that someone can be so pathetic.
This "logic" can be used to justify anything, by the way. "Hurr I don't need to rape, but I don't need to eat my own shit either!". Please, go die of every disease known to man.

>>5462434
It matters little. You're still killing the animal when you have no good reason to do so. "I like it" is an immensely bad reason to justify an action that causes such harm.

You guys are doing a piss poor job of justifying our clearly horrible behaviour. Just admit that we're assholes and move on.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:13:17 2014 No.5462522 >>5462514 Asking an animal for consent to slaughter is like asking a prisoner for consent to jail. The point is mootykins.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:14:56 2014 No.5462525

>>5462516
It is not necessary. It's only necessary because of the greed which necessitates these shortcuts. I've watched a farmer churn out a good amount of chickens which were raised humanely and (actually) free-range. Of course, he couldn't make his business very large, but if more people had small farms where they did this, and people didn't eat meat as much, we could raise these animals in good conditions.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:14:58 2014 No.5462526 >>5462521 >You're still killing the animal when you have no good reason to do so >stemming off hunger and transforming their bodies into useful items such as clothing and utilities and not a good reason.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:15:08 2014 No.5462527 >>5462460 Haha, this fucking guy right here folks. You're implying I need to be a fucking farmer to realise that I could survive without eating meat and that causing suffering with no good reason is unethical? Go fuck yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:16:06 2014 No.5462528 >>5462527 boohoo someone think of the piggies

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:16:30 2014 No.5462529 >>5462521 The practicality of industrialized meat production is more than enough to justify purchasing from retailers. I also hunt and fish, but I'm not raising a whole damn cow to have a steak.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:17:47 2014 No.5462533 >>5462525 Not without necessarily driving market price up. It just plain is not practical for this scale of production.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:18:25 2014 No.5462534 >>5462529 >but I'm not raising a whole damn cow to have a steak. Are you retarded?

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:18:30 2014 No.5462535

>>5462512
Okay, say you lived in a world where it was just you in existence and this one guy you hated so much you wanted to kill him. No one else around, just you and him. Would it still be wrong to kill that person because you didn't like him? The reason is... he used to bully you a lot verbally back in middle school.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:20:08 2014 No.5462544

>>5462484
Why is it wrong for an animal to die for your pleasure? To answer your childishly stupid question, let me ask why it's wrong for me to kill you? Or do you think it's perfectly fine for me to breach that core right of yours? Why does the fact that humans are smarter mean that we shouldn't be killed? What about retarded people? Should we just be allowed to kill and eat those?
If you want to be extreme and say that pain, suffering, cruelty and death aren't inherently "bad", then there's little reason for us to debate further. Back here in the real world, avoiding pain and suffering is generally agreed upon by all animals able to detect such feelings.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:20:09 2014 No.5462545 >>5462533 >for this scale of production I agree, but we do not have to have this massive demand for meat if we could eat less of it. Which is why I said if people ate less meat. It's possible... I've seen even the worst binge eaters go vegan.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:22:34 2014 No.5462554 >>5462259 Vegetarianism is killing and eating something that can't even attempt to flee or call for help, then feeling morally superior about it.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:22:39 2014 No.5462555

>>5462472
>but we all need to eat to survive
But we don't have to eat animals to survive. Also,
>I'd say the systematic raising and slaughtering of animals is more humane than the slow painful deaths the wild animals would suffer from predators.
I'd take being a gazelle on the plains, get jumped and killed by a lion in maybe 1 minute over being raised in a tiny, tiny stall, force fed, never see day light, get wounds from my inhumane living conditions, have my children stolen from me and finally killed just because I'm tasty.

I really don't see how it's an "extreme" to find unnecessary deaths wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:23:47 2014 No.5462560 >>5462478 The fuck are you talking about? Are you actually berating me for using fucking quotation marks? Jesus fucking christ man, get a life, you pathetic little shit stain.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:24:02 2014 No.5462562 >>5462535 What does that have to do with anything? I'm sure you find it just as risible when omnivores ask you if you'd eat animals on a desert island. No, I wouldn't kill him. Forgiveness is much better, and this is coming from an atheist.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:26:02 2014 No.5462567 >>5462522 Which is why it is wrong to kill them.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:26:18 2014 No.5462569

>>5462526
>stemming off hunger and transforming their bodies into useful items such as clothing and utilities and not a good reason.
So, there's this thing where you don't die if you don't eat meat. I know, messed up, right? I mean, it's almost like you could live your entire life without having to eat meat. Crazy, yo. Oh, and you know what, man? We don't live in the stone ages anymore. Imagine that. I know it's hard, but imagine a world where we can make clothes out of, get this, something other than leather! It's insane! Aw man, I totally just raped your brain, didn't I?

You're an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:26:59 2014 No.5462572 >>5462555 Your perception of mistreatment seems to be formed by PETA guerrilla videos and you are applying human empathy to livestock. There really isn't much to say other than each of our minds are coming from opposite directions on this issue.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:29:56 2014 No.5462580

>>5462528
"boohoo someone think of the nigger slaves"
That's the logic someone living in the mid 1800s would've used. Would you be swayed by this? No. And before some little cunt goes "aksualy . . .", let me stop you right there and say that I realise slavery is probably worse than eating meat like we are now.

>>5462529
What? Again; "the practicality of owning slaves is enough justification!". No, it isn't. You're still causing unnecessary suffering.

>>5462554
>not knowing it takes 10kg of plant material to produce 1kg of meat
>being this stupid
>not even realising you're a retard
Go die, buddy.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:31:11 2014 No.5462583

>>5462562
This has to do with your argument of "it's wrong because other people might do X" and "it would cause retaliation."

Speaking of which, let's say this person was absolutely defenseless and had no means of retaliation. Would it still be okay to kill him?

So, you wouldn't kill him because you believe forgiveness is much better? Then your argument of "people don't kill people because of retaliation, or how others would treat them afterwards" is invalid. Of course, you are only one person and you aren't very representative of the human population, but if you feel this way, odds are others do too, and odds are not everyone will kill someone just because they're afraid they might fight back or be punished.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:31:24 2014 No.5462584 >>5462580 >equating livestock production to human slavery That's the vegan equivalent of Reductio ad Hitlerum. A sure sign that this thread and argument will only devolve into stonewalled shit slinging. I'm out.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:32:31 2014 No.5462588 >>5462580 >"boohoo someone think of the nigger slaves" You heard it here first. Vegans think blacks are animals.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:33:03 2014 No.5462589 >>5462580 >Go die, buddy Why? So my decomposing corpse can feed your precious vegetables? Enjoy your cannibalism by proxy

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:33:28 2014 No.5462591

>>5462544
See >>5462512

If you killed me, you would be arrested and incarcerated. If you don't mind that then that's fine. Mentally disabled people are still the relatives of other people and killing them means making your own self a target for reprisal.

Sorry, but it's not in my self-interest to eat animals. All you've done is rehashed the same argument, which is "It's wrong!"

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:34:05 2014 No.5462594

>>5462572
"Your perception of mistreatment seems to be formed by PETA guerrilla videos"
Never seen them, but if the sentiment is the same as what I said then I guess it's right, because it remains unopposed by you morons

"and you are applying human empathy to livestock."
And you don't? If I set my cat on fire, you don't think I'm wrong? "Maaaan, you're just using human empathy to say that setting my cat on fire is wrong!". And if you're some little shit stain who doesn't comprehend that setting animals on fire for fun is awful, then there's little I can say to you. Pain is undesirable by beings able to feel it. I don't see why the pain you feel from being beaten to death should be avoided more than the pain a cow or a pig feels from being raised in horrible conditions just because they're tasty.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:34:09 2014 No.5462596 >>5462584 It's perfectly comparable. The very definition of enslaved is "losing freedom of choice or action." When you force these animals to die without any sort of freedom on their part, you are enslaving them.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:36:41 2014 No.5462603 >>5462594 I hope every chicken gets raped in confinement. PETA shills can suck my tube steak.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:37:05 2014 No.5462604

>>5462584
So you're unable to counter my argument, yeah?
Also, sometimes it's perfectly valid to compare certain things to nazism in order to demonstrate what a mindset might lead to. Are you really too stupid to understand that? Unquestioning loyalty to a leader can lead to horrible results, as we saw with nazism. Does the fact that I used nazism as an argument suddenly mean that unquestioning loyalty to a leader isn't bad? No, you fucking inbred.
I already said that slavery is probably worse. The point was, you fucking moron, that treating other living creatures like shit is reprehensible.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:38:22 2014 No.5462611

>>5462591
Not everyone has a complete lack of empathy like you. I'm sorry you aren't able to understand this. Not everyone will not kill something or someone just because they're afraid of a punishment. In a world without punishment, not everyone will kill someone.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:38:23 2014 No.5462613
File: 1.67 MB, 2592x1456, IMAG2417_BURST004.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5462580
>>not knowing it takes 10kg of plant material to produce 1kg of meat

Why does this idoitic fact keep getting repeated? I'm not gonna eat hay. I'm not gonna eat bushes or rotten apples. In actual none mass production farms animals are not fed people food.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:38:34 2014 No.5462616

>>5462583
>So, you wouldn't kill him because you believe forgiveness is much better? Then your argument of "people don't kill people because of retaliation, or how others would treat them afterwards" is invalid.

That's assuming that was my argument to begin with. I just stated a possible conclusion to your aforementioned activities. It's not in my self-interest to kill people because they'd retaliate. People who forgive tend to live better and stress-free lives.

http://hepatitiscnewdrugs.blogspot.ca/2011/05/hiv-forgiveness-can-improve-immune.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21706213

>Of course, you are only one person and you aren't very representative of the human population

Of course the same is true of vegans.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:38:59 2014 No.5462617 >>5462596 No it's not. One is a human being. One is livestock. Fuck off nigger, you've crossed the line between discourse and shitpost flamebait.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:40:20 2014 No.5462624

>>5462591
Your argument is that something is only "wrong" if I'm adversely affected by it, thereby throwing empathy to the wind. How can you be this fucking stupid? Go jerk off to some Ayn Rand, you simpleton.

>>5462613
"Why does this idoitic fact keep getting repeated?"
Because it's true, you idiot. The argument was that vegetarians are bad for eating food that can't escape (plants). The counter argument is that it takes far more plants to make meat.

Besides, don't act like we wouldn't be able to feed far, far, far more people if we didn't take up such incredible amounts of farm land to make animal food.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:41:11 2014 No.5462627 >>5462617 One feels pain and emotions. The other feels pain and emotions too. Both a human and an animal have these things in common.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:41:36 2014 No.5462629

>>5462611
>Not everyone has a complete lack of empathy like you.

Very snide remark, and that's assuming that I don't have empathy for my fellow species. It's in my self-interest to help others. If I give my friend money for his cancer treatment, hey may return the favor later on when I'm ill and not as financially secure.

>In a world without punishment, not everyone will kill someone.

In a world without punishment, nothing would be wrong to begin with. That's nothing like real life.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:41:59 2014 No.5462630 >>5462617 While I believe slavery is worse because humans are better able to comprehend the horror they're being subjected to, you haven't justified why it's magically okay to torture something because it's only a bit stupider than a human being.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:44:47 2014 No.5462637

>>5462630
Because it's not torture or mistreatment? It's not ideal conditions, hell sometimes it's barely above adequate, but unless it's Jethro taking out his failure at life on some chickens, or Juan slaughtering cows with a sledgehammer, it's not torture.

Caging, taking measures to ensure that they don't spoil their own meat, and killing is not torture, it's the procedure of bringing meat to market for a competitive price.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:45:24 2014 No.5462639

>>5462624
>Your argument is that something is only "wrong" if I'm adversely affected by it, thereby throwing empathy to the wind.

Why don't you get some reading comprehension? It's a multifaceted issue. It's not wrong just to kill people because it'd result in your harm, but also because it'd deny you any positive relationships with that person as well.

>Go jerk off to some Ayn Rand

I'm actually sympathetic to communism, if you've ever read Kropotkin's Mutual Aid, you'd realize it's in our benefit to help each other instead of competing for survival as you so misrepresented my views.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:45:43 2014 No.5462640

>>5462616
It's a possible conclusion, but not absolute, correct? So we can't just say those reasons are why it's wrong to do these things. Your response earlier in the thread states "Why is it wrong to do all of those things? Because it'd adversely affect you in the end."

You were speaking in absolutes, as if everyone felt this way. There are other reasons why it's wrong to do these things.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:45:51 2014 No.5462641

>>5462395
Came in to just say this was never refuted at all. Saying you're going to start fertilizing crops with human feces is incredibly ignorant about the tradeoff of that.

Life as you live it and know it depend on animal products, regardless of your choices to eat meat or not. Are you willing to deny such things as medicines to those who need them because you feel as if a domesticated animal's life is worth as much as that child's?

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:49:08 2014 No.5462654

>>5462629
So you're saying that if you knew with 100% certainty that you wouldn't get anything out of a good deed, you wouldn't bother? Aren't you a swell guy. I realise that altruism and empathy did indeed probably arise at a time when your kindness would be repaid somehow, but that doesn't mean we should only be empathetic out of self interest. I'd help people even if I knew with absolute certainty that I'd never benefit from it, in any way.

Meat eaters trying to justify their eating habits are the real hippies.

>>5462637
"Because it's not torture or mistreatment?"
Your definition of "mistreatment" is awfully lax. You wouldn't mind subjecting a very stupid human to the treat that many farm animals live under? I think you would mind a great deal.

>>5462639
"It's not wrong just to kill people because it'd result in your harm, but also because it'd deny you any positive relationships with that person as well."
Both of which are selfish factors. I don't kill because I can put myself in their shoes. I understand that it'd be unpleasant to be tortured and killed, so I abstain. I also abstain because I don't want them to kill me, sure, and that's a selfish factor, but you're only focusing on this latter one.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:49:31 2014 No.5462656

>>5462640
>but not absolute, correct

What's the likelihood of you killing someone and not being found out? It's probable that you'll likely be found out and adversely affected.

>as if everyone felt this way

Just because people don't feel this way doesn't mean it's not right. Likewise, you wouldn't accept that flimsy logic as a case against veganism.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:50:35 2014 No.5462660

>>5462624
>Besides, don't act like we wouldn't be able to feed far, far, far more people if we didn't take up such incredible amounts of farm land to make animal food.
Some chickens an a cow in a fallow field are going to do much less damage to it then trying to grow crops in it season after season. You know nothing about agriculture except what suites your propaganda.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:51:04 2014 No.5462661 >>5462408 >and "meat eaters" treat their bones like trash. >Not making delicious soup/stock What the hell is wrong with you?

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:52:14 2014 No.5462668

>>5462629
I shouldn't say complete lack, but if you had a complete sense of empathy, you wouldn't limit it to a certain species.

There is an emotional penalty self-induced for some. It hurts me emotionally to hurt you. It hurts me emotionally to hurt an animal. So, there is a penalty, yes, but it isn't one induced by the law... so I guess, there is a punishment. And that is why it's wrong. But not the punishment you were implying.

Also, I apologize for my rude comment. I get a but angry when it comes to this.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:53:40 2014 No.5462671

>>5462641
I countered it perfectly fine. The claim was that we have to raise animals in disgusting living conditions in order to grow crops. That's blatantly absurd. We'd be perfectly able to fertilize our fields without industrializing cruelty and killing animals.

>>5462660
And again, it takes 10kg of plant material to produce 1kg of meat. Not once did I claim we had to rape the fields every season, you disingenuous imbecile. I understand the concept of fallow fields.

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:54:12 2014 No.5462674

>>5462656
>What's the likelihood of you killing someone and not being found out? It's probable that you'll likely be found out and adversely affected.

>Don't kill someone you know
>Don't kill someone in your county
>Don't force entry
>Don't take trophies
>Wear used clothes from a flea market purchased out of state
>Don't park near their home
>Go out at dusk (so your face won't be seen but you also won't look suspicious for being out late at night)

Anonymous Sat May 24 13:54:20 2014 No.5462676

>>5462668
But you know... honestly, even if it didn't hurt me emotionally, I would still help people and animals. So I don't know. I don't think it's always a punishment, some people just want the best for all creatures. And that's what it comes down to.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:56:29 2014 No.5462682 >12:55 Eastern Time >Vegan has resorted to muh feels and seems desperate We will keep monitoring this delayed implosion.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:56:51 2014 No.5462684 >>5462671 > We'd be perfectly able to fertilize our fields without industrializing cruelty and killing animals. [citation needed] Considering you are lumping containment of animals in with cruelty, I'm going to say nope.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 13:57:46 2014 No.5462688 >>5462656 What about the hitmen on the deep web? Someone hires someone else to kill someone, and they hide it perfectly. No one is found out. I'm not sure what you're saying here. Elaborate please?

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:01:22 2014 No.5462698

>>5462654
I donate blood bi-monthly at my local blood clinic. It does cause me some fatigue for the rest of the day and I'm not paid for it except in way of some snacks and soft drinks. But I do it because it gives me a small amount of pleasure to know that I'm helping someone, and that if I'm ever in need of blood, someone else will have already given it to me in advance.

It's in our self-interest to be altruistic, simply saying you don't agree doesn't mean that's not how the world works.

>Both of which are selfish factors.

Emotional appeal. I'm making a better case for doing good than you are by saying "it's just right!"

>I understand that it'd be unpleasant to be tortured and killed, so I abstain.

Would that make you feel guilty or emotionally unwell if you did do that? Then you're avoiding it because it's against your self-interest to cause yourself any harm, physical or emotional.

>>5462668
>but if you had a complete sense of empathy

I don't see empathy as a good in itself. It's an instrumental good in that it'll probably make it more likely for me to live a better life. Who would you associate with--the man who volunteers his free time at an senior's home and is charitable, or the man who's abusive to his friends and family?

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:05:51 2014 No.5462715

>>5462259
>Why should another creature who can feel pain and understand suffering be killed just because I like bacon?

Why should another creature who can feel joy be denied the opportunity to be born because of your hysteric emotions getting in the way of your reasoning?
You can not quantify suffering, but you can tell that the farm animals show no signs of wanting to not exist. Quite the opposite.
Have you ever considered that a short, imperfect life is still better than no life at all?
Have it ever struck you that you have absolutly no right to tell someone else their life isn't worth living?

Vegetarianism is the most self-centered, immature, and irrational lifestyle there is. You're so spoiled and pampered that pain is unacceptable to you, even though it's a fundamental part of existance. If some immortal, always euphoric space alien came to earth, is it "ethically superior" for them to block out the sun so that we stop breeding? Because we have it so much worse than they that our lives aren't worth living?

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:06:21 2014 No.5462719

>>5462698
It is good in itself because it will help to create the world a better place. If everyone practiced complete empathy, most of the world's problems would go away. Greed, dishonesty, cruelty, etc, would go away. Of course there might be people who are masochistic, but most people want to avoid harm and suffering done to themselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:08:05 2014 No.5462725 File: 295 KB, 450x452, 1364761786980.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5462715

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:09:22 2014 No.5462731 >>5462715 Not the person you're replying to, but what are you saying? Vegetarianism doesn't mean those things. Are you talking about if we stop eating meat, what would we do with the livestock?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:10:23 2014 No.5462735 >>5462725 lol'd

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:12:20 2014 No.5462742

>>5462719
>It is good in itself because it will help to create the world a better place.

I hate to say this, but you keep dodging the issue here. Why is that good?

Would this hypothetical world of yours let you live a life that's more pleasurable? Then isn't it really just a case of being empathetic because it's in your self-interest?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:14:00 2014 No.5462749 >>5462715 You. You I like.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:15:54 2014 No.5462753 >>5462285 >We are part of the food chain We haven't been "part of the food chain" for thousands of years.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:15:59 2014 No.5462754 >>5462719 When the apocalypse comes, I'll eat you first.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:17:48 2014 No.5462763 >>5462753 >Being this stupid You can argue "muh agriculture" but we are still part of the food chain, whether we want to be or not.

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:17:57 2014 No.5462766

>>5462742
I'm not dodging issues here, I just thought that was a sufficient answer.

It would let me live a more pleasurable life, yes, but it would also cause less suffering to others. Which is what is important here. Why is that important? Because suffering causes pain. I can't elaborate much more on that. Pain is bad because it causes pain. I think that is rational and doesn't need elaboration.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:21:07 2014 No.5462781 >>5462394 Omnivores DO eat vegetables. Are you really so stupid that you think just because people eat meat that they don't eat vegetables? You dumb fuck.

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:21:53 2014 No.5462784

>>5462731

I think he's going for the "if you don't breed animals to kill them, then they'd never exist, and that's even worse than living a short, shitty life" angle. This is a common defensive tactic that you can tell isn't actually a belief held by the person saying it because they would only ever use it in this one scenario, because it would benefit from them. By their logic, condoms should be illegal and everyone should be fucking all the time and making babies and filling the world with as many people as possible so that we can turn them into slaves because not existing in the first place is worse than being enslaved and killed.

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:22:10 2014 No.5462787

>>5462682
>meat eaters are going full retard trying to justify cruelty
this guy

>>5462684
So you find it inconceivable that we could have farms where animals are treated decently and not killed after a few years to eat them? It's simply impossible for you to comprehend that we don't HAVE to be cruel overlords in order to raise crop?
>this fucking guy

>>5462698
"Emotional appeal"
If you want to call me emotional because I don't torture my animals for fun even though I gain nothing from not doing it, go right ahead. Empathy, the ability to put myself in another creature's shoes, might be "emotional" but I don't see how this invalidates it.

"Would that make you feel guilty or emotionally unwell if you did do that?"
The reason for abstaining is not that I'd feel bad for causing pain, no. I might also feel bad, and it might also be a reason to abstain, sure, but it's far from the primary one.

>>5462715
Oh my fuck.
"Have you ever considered that a short, imperfect life is still better than no life at all?"
>calling vegetarians hippies while spouting this drivel
The amount of joy a pig who lives its entire life in a teeny, tiny stall is minuscule compared to the pain it suffers.
What you're basically saying is that you'd never, ever, ever euthanise an animal who was, say, in great pain, because "hurr it might like it when I pet it". Absurdly stupid argument that I don't think for a second you actually believe.

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:22:44 2014 No.5462788

We are destroying the planet by eating so much meat though that is undeniable; the majority of our fuel usage is around agriculture and in the US half the grains and legumes we grow are made into fodder for animals.

Regardless if you believe in climate change or not you are still dealing with top soil destruction, algal blooms related to agricultural fertilizer runoff, dead zones in the ocean and a lot of other longer term destructive things

I am not advocating we all become vegan but in most places we shouldn't be eating much meat.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:22:56 2014 No.5462790 >>5462763 Food chain refers to the workings of an ecosystem. Humans have removed themselves from nature's ecosystems.

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:24:30 2014 No.5462794

>>5462766
You know what's pain? Pain is starvation. Pain is living in a desert, or other drought stricken area, or in a snow covered winter area where vegetables and grain DO NOT GROW, and having dumb shits like you say "Ermergurrrd, you can't eat that goat, it has FEELINGS".
You're a sheltered little piece of shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:24:50 2014 No.5462795 File: 55 KB, 500x500, 0003700040511_500X500[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5462781 >Omnivores DO eat vegetables Omnitarians have to take fucking FIBER supplements. PILLS... for FIBER.

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:24:55 2014 No.5462796

>>5462715
"Vegetarianism is the most self-centered, immature, and irrational lifestyle there is."
Oh come on, you fucking imbecile. Self-centered because they don't want to cause unnecessary pain? Immature because they realise animals can feel pain and that pain is unpleasant? Irrational because they live a far, far, far, far more sustainable life style than us meat eaters? Give me a fucking break.
>You're so spoiled and pampered that pain is unacceptable to you, even though it's a fundamental part of existance.
What a retarded argument that can be used to justify all kinds of horrible mindsets, slavery being one. "Oh, stop whining about being considered animals, pain is just part of life!"
You stupid fucking idiot. And before you cum all over your keyboard, I'm not saying eating meat is as bad as slavery, only that your retarded arguments can easily be used to justify both.

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:26:33 2014 No.5462799

>>5462794
The argument here is aimed at people who could just as easily be vegetarian. If your choices are starvation or eating animals, you're pretty much forced to eat that animal. We here in the west are in absolutely no way whatsoever forced to kill and eat animals.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:26:57 2014 No.5462800 >>5462790 Only in first world countries. Plus, that will fall, as it always does. Young'ins think that everything constantly improves, but history tells us differently.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:26:58 2014 No.5462801 File: 112 KB, 590x700, omni bingo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] These threads are troll gold

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:27:10 2014 No.5462803 >>5462788 It is unavoidable. We will adapt and overcome. You cannot just turn the clock backwards, and even if you got the U.S. to curb its meat consumption, that doesn't stop developing nations from affecting the global environment.

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:27:13 2014 No.5462804

>>5462787
>So you find it inconceivable that we could have farms where animals are treated decently and not killed after a few years to eat them? It's simply impossible for you to comprehend that we don't HAVE to be cruel overlords in order to raise crop?

Considering you haven't laid out a solution that fits your arbitrary criteria and show one that wouldn't cause the prices of produce to jump significantly... yes. I am saying that. Prove me wrong. You're the one acting like human fecal matter in fields is a solution to the fertilization problem, not me.

So once again, do you not understand why having human shit in the fields is a bad thing?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:27:35 2014 No.5462807 File: 36 KB, 359x360, psilocybin2-359x360.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] why are the vegans so defensive about animals but devour fungi. They are fucking neural networks for chrissake, probably have better consciousness than us

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:28:54 2014 No.5462811 >>5462795 You are a fucking retard. Omnivores don't HAVE to take fiber supplements. Actually, I've known vegans who took fiber supplements. You're just a fucking idiot. Maybe you need to eat some brain boosting vegetables, you sack of shit.

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:29:11 2014 No.5462812

>>5462766
Except you said empathy is a good in itself, when you've just proved it's an instrumental good rather than an intrinsic one. Slight distinction, but I'm saying it's good to empathetic because it'll benefit you while your argument for being empathetic is because we should be.

>>5462787
>If you want to call me emotional because I don't torture my animals for fun even though I gain nothing from not doing it, go right ahead.

See? That's an emotional appeal. I'm not calling you emotional, but your argument doesn't rely on logic.

>Empathy, the ability to put myself in another creature's shoes
I reserve my empathy for my fellow man, I'm sorry you can't accept that.

>not that I'd feel bad for causing pain, no. I might also feel bad, and it might also be a reason to abstain, sure, but it's far from the primary one.

Then what is the argument for abstaining? You're back at square one again.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:30:17 2014 No.5462818 File: 10 KB, 200x280, OH MY GOD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5462795 VEGANS HAVE TO TAKE PILLS. TO NOT DIE!

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:30:35 2014 No.5462820 >>5462799 No, you're wrong. Vegans are mentally ill people who want the whole world to be vegan. This will never be acceptable or possible. Veganism is a mental illness. Seek help.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:32:01 2014 No.5462825 >>5462818 you don't need as much as they claim. It's the only vitamin your body can store. It also depletes when you drink so there's that

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:33:30 2014 No.5462830 File: 54 KB, 580x337, e8d1bd7e10d9828af2129d7ef23c1ffd[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I think it's inevitable that veganism will eventually become the norm, atleast in the first world, the same way slavery has been abolished.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:35:36 2014 No.5462839 >>5462825 Oh it was just a copy of the stupid argument given in the quoted post. A balanced diet of either variety needs little to no suppliments in a first world country.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:36:34 2014 No.5462840 >>5462830 I also believe people will come to accept the North American Man/Boy Love Association because just as the abolitionists were once ridiculed and then vindicated, so will the pedophiles.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:38:44 2014 No.5462848 >>5462840 Actually, just like meat eating, pedophilia is from a barbaric time in humanity's past. It hit its peak in ancient Greece, now it has declined. Some day, just like meat eating, NAMBLA type organizations will be but a distant memory

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:41:39 2014 No.5462858 >>5462848 Don't bet on it, sport.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:43:23 2014 No.5462864 >>5462848 Actually, most Greeks were vegetarians because meat was unaffordable to most back then.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:43:27 2014 No.5462865 >>5462848 Homosexuality was pretty popular in Greece, wasn't it?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:50:24 2014 No.5462887 >>5462865 greeks were either sexual(what would be considered pansexual today) or asexual

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:52:09 2014 No.5462889

>>5462848
You couldn't be more wrong. But then, I also realize you're just a troll, working hard at trolling. Pederasty grows as societies accept all forms of alternative lifestyles. That is historically accurate. And then.....there's always a huge backlash that takes society backwards a hundred years or more. Just wait for it....

Anonymous Sat May 24 14:54:50 2014 No.5462893

>>5462420
>Kill yourself, please. 1kg of meat takes 10kg of plant material.

Every 1kg of human edible plant material produces 4kg of waste material that's PERFECT for goats, pigs,cows, and chickens.

Unless, of course, you eat your corn cobs whole, silk, leaves, stalks, husk, and leftover cob too.

What about your wheat? Surely you also eat the chaff, stems, and leaves of that as well? No?

Ok, what about oranges? Do you also eat the pith and skins? What about the seeds?

Meanwhile, I just toss it in the pig tough and they love the shit out of it.
Then I get to slaughter one or two every year.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:56:09 2014 No.5462896 >>5462820 >No, you're wrong. >implying you know what I believe better than I do You don't. I can't speak for other people, since I'm not part of some hive-mind.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:56:33 2014 No.5462898 >>5462893 and grass is completely useless to humans, but it makes cows healthy and tasty

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 14:59:00 2014 No.5462908 >>5462896 See, that's your problem. Your beliefs are wrong. It's not about fucking "hivemind" or whatever cutesy buzzwords you like to use, it's that you literally think wrongly. You have a mental illness.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:05:21 2014 No.5462924 >>5462898 exactly. an omnivorous diet is the only ethical and sane way to feed humanity. What we need is better resource management.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:05:49 2014 No.5462926

>>5462804
>You're the one acting like human fecal matter in fields is a solution to the fertilization problem, not me.
I love the smell of straw men in the morning. I was tooootally saying this was all it took, right? Wrong, you disingenuous asshole.

>Considering you haven't laid out a solution that fits your arbitrary criteria and show one that wouldn't cause the prices of produce to jump significantly... yes
Oh, I'd fully expect the price of manure to increase. I'm just not willing to sacrifice everything on the altar of profit. You might be, but I'm not. Seeing as how it's stupidly expensive - including in things like the adverse affects on the environment - I wouldn't be too surprised if it'd pay itself off.
I don't find it that unfathomable that we could raise live stock in decent conditions and not kill them after a few years in order to produce fertilization. I said this already. I'm positive we could make better use of human waste as well. You'll be unsatisfied no matter what I say, even if my plan was 100% perfect - which it obviously isn't - so I'll just leave it at that, though it is admittedly quite vague.

>>5462812
As I said, if you want to call my assumption of pain being bad emotional, go ahead. It doesn't really invalidate it. If you want to be so strictly logical, and throw any assumptions of the worth of pain and pleasure, you can't justify doing anything, whatsoever. "I don't want to starve because it's unpleasant" is also an emotional argument, then.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:06:45 2014 No.5462928

>>5462259
I mostly agree.

I eat meat and love it, but I also recognize awful the industry is. But my biggest problem really isn't with animals getting killed, just for me to eat. We all die, and I don't think It's worse for me to kill something and eat it, than had it just died of old age.

My problem is with the industrialization of animals. Meat as a product. I don't like the idea off giant animal factories.

It's not even because I feel bad for the animals. I can't even imagine what it must be like to be Indian, how should I be able to feel empathy for a pig.

My problem is whit what it represent, and the view on nature it originates form. I buy organic, but I also realize that it probarly doesn't matter in the end. I buy organic because it feels good.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:07:46 2014 No.5462937

>>5462812
>I reserve my empathy for my fellow man, I'm sorry you can't accept that.
So you don't mind it if I torture animals for fun?

>Then what is the argument for abstaining? You're back at square one again.
I'll repeat myself just for you. I can put myself in someone else's shoes, and understand that, say, killing them would be an unpleasant experience. Therefore I abstain, because I don't want them to feel bad. Call me emotional for not wanting other creatures to suffer unnecessarily. It doesn't invalidate my argument in the slightest.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:12:23 2014 No.5462949

>>5462893
Finally an actual argument. I was beginning to lose hope.
I realise that what humans can eat isn't quite like what farm animals can eat, and that we wouldn't directly get 10 times the food we do now just by switching to vegetarianism, but you're still left with a situation where vegetarianism is far more effective than eating meat is.
That plant material doesn't have to go to waste either, by the way. Where the 10kg of plant material that goes into a pig becomes 1kg of meat and 9kg of sustaining the pig, the 4kg of waste material you mentioned could be put back into the system, producing more edible plant material.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:12:42 2014 No.5462950

>>5462682
>Vegan has resorted to muh feels

And so what? Why is it not aloud to do something base on emotional reasons? I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't see why it's desperate to express a very subjective opinion. No one is forcing you to not eat meat.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:13:36 2014 No.5462951 >>5462908 Got any actual arguments there, kid? Or are you just in the mood for wasting my time with childish assumptions and pathetic insults?

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:15:06 2014 No.5462956

>>5462715
Thats nice and all but man a "short and imperfect life" sure sounds a lot nicer then being tortured and beaten. I admit, there are nice farms out there and then there are factory farms which treat the animals like shit. I would rather die then be raised in a small cage not being able to move, forced to reproduce just to watch my offspring go through the same trauma, then line up to be killed with everyone else.

I'm pretty sure im not the only one who'd want to kill myself if those same aliens came to earth, but instead of blocking out the sun, enslaved humanity as a food source.

Plese see >>5462784 as well

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:15:45 2014 No.5462958 >>5462893 >compost it >grow more crops

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:16:05 2014 No.5462961

>>5462950
I'd rather point out that "hurr it's muh feels argumintz" isn't a good counter argument. Is it "muh feels" when I say we should treat humans decently? Does it invalidate my opinion when I want old people to be cared for, just because it's based on "feels"? Or that I want animals to be treated as well as we can, because pain is pretty much the only universal "bad" we have?

Meat eaters are way, way more hippie than vegetarians are.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:17:20 2014 No.5462965 >>5462949 It gets put back into the system via manure anyways. It works better as a compost then, well compost.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:18:26 2014 No.5462967 >>5462937 >So you don't mind it if I torture animals for fun? Sure, but I doubt people would want to hang out with you. >It doesn't invalidate my argument in the slightest. Neither does it prove it.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:19:20 2014 No.5462970

>>5462803
I'm pretty sure trying to stop the problem and going back to fix it is a better solution then to just expect its going to happen and see where it goes.

By that logic through this crude example, I accidently stab you but instead of stopping and bring you to the hospital, I'll just stab you deeper and see how you adapt and overcome this.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:19:32 2014 No.5462971

>>5462965
If you're the guy I responded to, a lot of the plant material is turned into energy in the animal. It's not like it eats 10kg of plant material, makes 1kg of meat and shits 9kg of shit that can be used to fertilize the ground

The point is that compost be compost and those 4kg of inedible material can be reused to grow more crops.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:19:32 2014 No.5462972

>>5462961
That's not a 'muh feels' argument. That's a human rights argument.

Animals don't have rights other than to not be needlessly killed or tortured. The raising, feeding, and slaughter conditions all necessitate food production. Animal rights and human rights are quite far from being similar.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:21:33 2014 No.5462978 >>5462961 Keep repeating that, hippie.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:21:38 2014 No.5462979 >>5462971 I don't have the numbers but a similar % in compost is turned into Beatles and worms and bacteria. It's more efficient to turn it into herbivore.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:22:26 2014 No.5462980 File: 100 KB, 441x408, 1263335635165.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5462972 >that cognitive dissonance

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:23:27 2014 No.5462982

>>5462967
>Sure, but I doubt people would want to hang out with you.
Okay, so seeing as how you're basically a fucking psychopath who has no understanding of the suffering of other animals, why are human animals magically better than cow animals? Just because we're smarter? Should I be allowed to set fire to a retarded human being, just because he's as smart as, say, a very smart dog?
You're a pretty disgusting human being. That's not an argument or intended to hurt you, I just thought you should know that you're a horrible and vile little shit stain, in the hopes that you understand that your pathetic views make normal people view you as a complete cunt. And yes, that is ad hominem. Sometimes it's called for, and with trash like you, it's called for.

>Neither does it prove it
My argument is not invalidated by being based on the emotion that "pain is unpleasant". You're not making any headway in the argument, bro.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:24:40 2014 No.5462987 >>5462980 Of what, that livestock and humans are not on the same plane of existence? Get your head out of your ass, child.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:25:46 2014 No.5462990

>>5462982
Not the guy you're talking to, but in all technicality? Yes, if you wanted to kill a mentally disabled human being I would take that as less serious than a fully mentally capable adult.
Animals are less capable of thinking in the ways that humans do, so it's not nearly as heinous a crime to kill them. With that said I still get upset at things like trophy hunting and the horrible practices of the food industry but that has nothing to do with empathy.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:26:52 2014 No.5462995

>>5462972
>Animal rights and human rights are quite far from being similar.
Not really. One is a right given to an animal that we've somewhat arbitrarily decided is superior to other types, and the other is not. There's nothing that objectively makes a human better than a cow. "B-b-but muh intellectz". So what? Being smart is not an objective quality.
Besides, of course it's an argument based on feelings; the feeling that I want my fellow man to be happy. Doesn't invalidate my opinion, but the root is feels.

>>5462978
>not realising it's the meat eaters who are making the pseudo-intellectual half assed philosophical arguments to justify their clearly reprehensible actions

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:29:00 2014 No.5463000

>>5462990
>if you wanted to kill a mentally disabled human being I would take that as less serious than a fully mentally capable adult.
if you wanted to kill a mentally disabled human being I would take that as less serious than a fully mentally capable adult.
I would so too, but it's still a crime. It's still unacceptable. And there's ultimately no good reason for it - humans are not objectively superior to other animals, because there is no objective scale on which to place our traits. Intelligence is not an objectively "good" quality. It just makes us strong compared to other animals. Strength is not automatically right, however.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:29:16 2014 No.5463001 Why do vegetarians want to take away our free will? It's my God-given right as a human being to choose what I want to eat.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:29:18 2014 No.5463002

>>5462995
>smart is not an objective quality
Most animals are completely incapable of higher thought - that is, things involving an understanding of themselves and abstract concepts that we take for granted. They don't think the way you do and the fact that you think they do shows you're not educated on the subject.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:29:43 2014 No.5463003

>>5462982
>Should I be allowed to set fire to a retarded human being

Sure, but someone's going to return the favor if you do that. And doing that to another human being shows you that you could easily do it to someone else.

>My argument is not invalidated by being based on the emotion that "pain is unpleasant".

Neither is your argument proven by it.

Here's a factual statement: Meat is delicious. Is that an argument for being an omnivore? I suspect you'd argue to the negative.

Nice rant though, you really brought up the level of debate to another plateau.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:30:47 2014 No.5463007 >>5462995 Yes, there is a big fucking difference. If you think humans are no different from milkcows, then there is no argument I can make; you've already displayed your warped mindset.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:30:58 2014 No.5463008 >>5463000 It is a crime and unacceptable because we are in a higher society and we agree to hold ourselves to a higher standard than that. However, the retard is still sapient 99% of the time so I'd treat that as more serious than killing some animal.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:36:28 2014 No.5463025

>>5463002
>They don't think the way you do and the fact that you think they do shows you're not educated on the subject.
Not once did I claim this. What are you smoking? I specifically said that it's not an objectively "good" quality to be smart. How you can misconstrue this to mean that everyone is smart(/sentient) is beyond me.

>>5463003
>Sure, but someone's going to return the favor if you do that. And doing that to another human being shows you that you could easily do it to someone else.
You're a pretty vile person. What if no one ever found out? What if I was a vietnam soldier and I found someone out in the jungle, alone, and I had a flame thrower? Would it be totally fine for me to set fire to her?

>Neither is your argument proven by it.
Of course it is. Pain is unpleasant and should be avoided. I can understand the pain of others, even if I don't feel it myself, so I don't want to inflict it.

>Here's a factual statement: Meat is delicious.
So what? That's an argument based on feelings too.

I find it mildly tedious to talk to someone who doesn't mind setting fire to other people if you don't get caught.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:38:22 2014 No.5463030 File: 16 KB, 538x511, 23198918231.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5463002 >they don't think like I do, so they should die

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:38:28 2014 No.5463031

>>5463007
>If you think humans are no different from milkcows
Would you fucking read what I'm saying, you imbecile? I never said we aren't different. I said we aren't objectively better, because we aren't. Smarter, sentient, stronger as a species, absolutely, but none of these are equal to "objectively better".

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:40:02 2014 No.5463036

>>5463025
Except it is an objectively good quality to be smart enough to know what you are, what you want beyond the basic urges and be generally aware. If a person does not have that, they are incapable of functioning in any way shape or form and whether you like it or not you would treat them like less of a person.
Stop treating things that aren't like you like they are you. It's standard for all animals to be empathetic in the sense that you assume other beings think and feel the way you do, but part of being an intelligent human being is realizing they do not.
>>5463030
>they are objectively less capable of understanding their world so I'm going to feel less bad should they die
I'd get more upset about a crow dying than a dog. That's just me.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:40:22 2014 No.5463038

>>5463008
How do you know the very, very stupid person is sentient and the pig is not? Pigs are actually quite intelligent. If it's fine for me to kill and eat the pig, why is it not fine for me to kill and eat the human who is just as smart/stupid? It really isn't. We just do it anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if this changed in the somewhat near future.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:41:36 2014 No.5463043

>>5463036
>Except it is an objectively good quality to be smart enough to know what you are
Why? Why is it objectively good to be sentient more so than being able to, say, fly or run fast or be very fecund? It isn't. There is no objective scale in the universe.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:43:17 2014 No.5463046

>>5463038
Because intelligence and sapience are two different things. Also sentient and sapience are two different things as well. Sapience is a level of higher knowledge most animals do not have, sentience is a bit more common.
>>5463043
If you're going to go with the 'everything is subjective' argument then you cannot say that somebody is objectively wrong for killing anything they want, and I'd agree with you.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:43:47 2014 No.5463047 >>5463031 These all mean "objectively better". We are objectively better in the field of intelligence, objectively better in the field of sentience, objectively better in the field of strength as a species. Do you even understand English?

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:45:14 2014 No.5463051

>>5463025
>Would it be totally fine for me to set fire to her

If you don't feel bad. But then I'd argue you're ruining yourself by setting a precedent for future actions.

It's not exactly a new argument
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Gyges

>The Ring of Gyges is a mythical magical artifact mentioned by the philosopher Plato in book 2 of his Republic (2.359a–2.360d). It granted its owner the power to become invisible at will. Through the story of the ring, Republic considers whether an intelligent person would be moral if he did not have to fear being caught and punished.
>Socrates ultimately argues that justice does not derive from this social construct: the man who abused the power of the Ring of Gyges has in fact enslaved himself to his appetites, while the man who chose not to use it remains rationally in control of himself and is therefore happy.

>Of course it is. Pain is unpleasant and should be avoided.
And pleasure is good. The cow dies and I enjoy a multitude of products ranging from foodstuffs to pharmaceuticals. The rat dies and proves a hypothesis and biomedical research is furthered.

>That's an argument based on feelings too.

Actually, that's not what I'm pointing out. You're pussyfooting around Hume's Guillotine.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:51:40 2014 No.5463065 >>5462803 If we cut down on meat exports the world will slow as well; however a concerted effort in meat reduction can occur, we in the developed world just have to follow through and make it the preferred way of living

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 15:54:10 2014 No.5463070 >>5463046 Just curious, but how are each quantified?

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:56:11 2014 No.5463071

>>5463046
>Because intelligence and sapience are two different things. Also sentient and sapience are two different things as well. Sapience is a level of higher knowledge most animals do not have, sentience is a bit more common.
I love these artificial constructs that are based on ridiculous metrics.

It's like a bird judging other creatures on the number of feathers they have and their airspeed.

Anonymous Sat May 24 15:58:28 2014 No.5463073

>>5463070
If I understand correctly, sentience is the capability to have personal desires and thoughts about how to gain things that aren't purely needs whereas sapience is being capable of logically asking why they feel a way they do or why they want something, as well as other higher thoughts like understanding that other creatures may not know everything that you do.

>>5463071
Right, that's totally the same as the capability to do things like judging other creatures or create artificial constructs.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:02:44 2014 No.5463076 File: 41 KB, 500x375, 1399165096068.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5462205 >No one talked about the movie

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:03:39 2014 No.5463080 >>5463076 IT's /ck/ and this is a standard and repetitive vegan thread.

Anonymous Sat May 24 16:04:55 2014 No.5463083

>>5463046
I don't see why sapience makes humans superior to animals. Humans can't fly on our own. Birds can. Are birds better than humans? No.

Sure, nothing is objectively wrong or right. If we accept that humans should feel well, in order to be consistent we have to accept that animals should also feel well, because there's no reason why they should.

>>5463051
>If you don't feel bad. But then I'd argue you're ruining yourself by setting a precedent for future actions.
Again, my feelings towards an action doesn't make it acceptable or not.

>And pleasure is good.
Why does your pleasure trump that of a cow? It doesn't. Sometimes I'd love to beat people up, but I abstain, because I realise it'd be unpleasant to them. I should abstain from eating animals, because I'm supporting a cruel industry.

>Actually, that's not what I'm pointing out
You're not really that interesting to talk to, bro. Maybe you could explain yourself a bit more next time around, so we can skip all this beating around the bush. State your arguments instead of wasting my time.
But really, since your base assumption is that only your own pleasure matters, and that you should only treat other people kindly to further your own pleasure - directly or indirectly - you're making it impossible to argue that we should try to improve anyone's lives unless we gain something from it. The simple fact that you don't find it reprehensible to light people on fucking fire if I'm not caught is rather telling.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:09:52 2014 No.5463090 >>5463083 >Humans can't fly on our own. Birds can. Except it's because of our sapience that we're able to fly at all. Sapience allows a creature to overcome its shortcomings and become superior to other creatures.

Anonymous Sat May 24 16:14:37 2014 No.5463094

>>5463083
>If we accept that humans should feel well, in order to be consistent we have to accept that animals should also feel well, because there's no reason why they should.
Except you're making a very big mistake here - farm animals for the most part don't get upset should they live a good life, then be brought out back and slaughtered. They aren't wondering about why somebody would eat them or why humans are so cruel, they're wondering when their food is coming. They can't feel emotional and existential pain on the same level of a human and so we treat them differently than humans.

With that said, I still think factory farms are disgusting but again that has nothing to do with me empathizing with the animals dying, that has to do with me being upset with their living conditions up until their death.

Anonymous Sat May 24 16:14:58 2014 No.5463095
File: 28 KB, 480x321, zulu-tribe[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5463090

How come these humans aren't flying around and splitting atoms? I guess we're morally justified in enslaving them. Only heterosexual white men should have any rights

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:16:32 2014 No.5463100 File: 48 KB, 351x500, 5133H8SZ04L[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5463094 Not the guy you're arguing with, but you should watch this movie.

Anonymous Sat May 24 16:16:46 2014 No.5463101

>>5463095
Except those humans are capable of doing that should they be given the opportunity. A cow is never going to find to be an excellent member of society no matter how many opportunities you give them and I'd really be grateful if you didn't compare one of the greatest issues our planet has with treating animals as animals.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:18:21 2014 No.5463103 >>5463100 Just read the synopsis, I'll take a look at it sometime for an excuse to eat popcorn and drink beer with buddies.

Anonymous Sat May 24 16:22:47 2014 No.5463110

>>5463101

>A cow is never going to find to be an excellent member of society no matter how many opportunities you give them

Pets have existed for thousands of years. We even train animals to do things like help the blind and detect bombs. Birds used to be used to relay messages to people across distances.

>treating animals as animals.

Humans are animals. I'd appreciate if you didn't pretend we're alien god-kings that came to this planet solely to rule it and turn everything on it into our slaves.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:25:02 2014 No.5463114 >>5463110 How does animal training have anything to do with assimilating to a modern human society? In fact that kind of displays the opposite of the ability to do so. Nigga you just went full retard.

Anonymous Sat May 24 16:25:54 2014 No.5463116

>>5463110
You know what I mean when I say a member of society. I mean somebody who can interact in a social manner and share something valuable at the same time - an animal with a cool trick is not that in any way.

>I'd appreciate if you didn't pretend we're alien god-kings that came to this planet solely to rule it and turn everything on it into our slaves.
You also know what people refer to when they say animals, stop splitting hairs. We are as far as we know the most intelligent beings on the planet but we're learning more about very smart and social animals and the ones we eat are not one of them.
Except for Asia. Fucking Asia, stop eating whales and dolphins.

Anonymous Sat May 24 16:28:12 2014 No.5463121

>>5463114

Nobody's expecting a capybara to put on a suit and tie and start doing office work, but it's hard to make an argument that other animals have no place in human society when millions of people keep and look after pets, who atleast offer companionship and happiness

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:29:22 2014 No.5463125 >>5463121 They do have a place in human society, but it's not as equals.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:30:07 2014 No.5463126 >>5463125 200 years later, segregation ends and blacks get the right to vote. It's funny how things change.

Anonymous Sat May 24 16:31:49 2014 No.5463131

>>5463126
Are you comparing objective equals to fucking dogs and cats?

I'm sorry, I've tried to be fair here but you're unironically ridiculous. If you find a way to make dog and cats smart enough to do everything humans can do, you'll have an argument, but I'm pretty dolphins and ravens have a better chance of that.
tl;dr quit being a shit and comparing actual civil rights issues to animals being treated like animals, jesus fuck

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:32:11 2014 No.5463132 >>5463126 Jesus fucking Christ, I hope this post was facetious.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:45:32 2014 No.5463159 >>5463125 Do you have to treat something as your equal in order to not kill and eat them?

Anonymous Sat May 24 16:50:50 2014 No.5463168

>>5462560
this is a chan
>this is a quote
and
>this is a quote

it's the point of green text, and the fact that you don't know that proves you're pretty dan new here.
but my main beef is you're ignorance.
and >>5462285
is right, for you to live,something must die. its how it is. and you're level or self deprecation and meat eaters guilt is disgusting, probably an odd anomaly in your DNA that allows you to be
on the same level as white guilt fucks.

you don't want to kill animals? tear down your house, it was their land first.
quit eating plants,that is herbivores food,not yours,
quit using the internet, I shouldn't need a reason for that.

and for the Love of gods, quit being such a little girl about this. life is violence, necessary, devastating,violence.

Anonymous Sat May 24 16:50:54 2014 No.5463169

>>5463159
No, but if something's objectively inferior intellectually to an extent a farm animal is I'm going to feel less bad should I decide to ethically kill one for food reasons.
With that said I feel like this has gone on far enough, it's really too silly so I'm calling it a night. It was fun, veganbros.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:52:37 2014 No.5463178 >>5463159 Yes. Or endangered or not worth the time or too gross (like predator meat) etc...

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 16:56:43 2014 No.5463193 >>5463178 So then you treat every other human as your equal, even if they're demonstratably inferior to you in some way?

Anonymous Sat May 24 16:59:20 2014 No.5463202

>>5462719
if everyone practiced complete empathy, we would still be living in mud huts.
you're perfect world doesn't allow for competitive nature to run it's course and leads to shit like the dark ages.
you need to get educated before spouting your propaganda.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:02:10 2014 No.5463211 >>5463193 No. All men are created equal, not all are equal. Although we should afford inherent human rights to all, but some waive those rights by their actions.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:03:39 2014 No.5463217 >>5463211 >All men are created equal That's a man-made concept though, you could just as well say "all living things are created equal"

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:03:49 2014 No.5463218 >>5462958 plant based compost is damn near worthless.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:04:25 2014 No.5463222 >>5463218 lol no

Anonymous Sat May 24 17:06:47 2014 No.5463231

>>5463217
But they aren't you fucking faggot. We've been over this. All homo sapiens, with some exception, are created on the same cognitive playing field with the same capacity to feel, think, and comprehend. I don't know what you're trying to prove by attempting to blur the lines between man and livestock, but it isn't working.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:07:54 2014 No.5463236 >>5463231 >homo sapiens At least capitalize genera if you want to sound smart.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:08:11 2014 No.5463239 >>5463217 that's a concept based in fact. you're trying to sway with emotion and you're argument is weak.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:08:59 2014 No.5463240 >>5463231 >All men are created equal Then why do deleterious genotypes still exist? you sound like a child.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:09:15 2014 No.5463241 >>5463236 at least address the argument if you want to sound smart you Homo sexual.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:10:52 2014 No.5463244 >>5463222 lol yes it needs dead matter or added minerals. anyone who has ever grown anything will tell you dead matter compost beats plant compost every time.

Anonymous Sat May 24 17:11:58 2014 No.5463248

>>5463240
>>5463236
I assume the reason why the opposition has become splitting hairs and moving goalposts because this is bait zone.
All people past this line have accepted the full consequences of this shitty thread being troll city and realize that their arguments shall never sway the other side:
_______

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:12:16 2014 No.5463249 >>5463244 >dead matter Like dead plants?

Anonymous Sat May 24 17:12:40 2014 No.5463250

>>5463083
>Again, my feelings towards an action doesn't make it acceptable or not.

You don't know what's acceptable or not.

>Why does your pleasure trump that of a cow? It doesn't. Sometimes I'd love to beat people up, but I abstain, because I realise it'd be unpleasant to them.

No, you abstain because it wouldn't make you feel better about yourself and that you'd be charged with assault and be viewed as a thug.

>so we can skip all this beating around the bush

It's because you have a lack of reading comprehension that I have to repeat several times for you. That repetitiveness could be avoided if you stopped being so obstinate.

>The simple fact that you don't find it reprehensible to light people on fucking fire if I'm not caught is rather telling.

Of course I find it reprehensible. That's why I pointed out several times people wouldn't
associate with you if you did that.

>>5462698
>>5462512

Maybe you should try reading next time. Your snide remarks aren't even witty.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:12:43 2014 No.5463251 >>5463240 >with some exception >also referring philosophically to cross-species mental capacity and ability Yeah, no. Fuck your tangents, address the actual issue, nigger.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:21:28 2014 No.5463265 >>5463231 Tell me when you can flap your arms and fly through the air at 80 miles per hour to grab the prey you spotted in some bushes from 5 miles away.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:33:47 2014 No.5463289 >>5463265 We've already got the spotting down, I'll get back to you on the wings in twenty or thirty years.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:34:46 2014 No.5463290 >>5462205 >Vegan Propaganda please kill yourself immediately

Anonymous Sat May 24 17:40:17 2014 No.5463303

>>5463289

>We

I'm not talking about what other people have invented and you latched onto as a sign of your species-wide intelligence. If I throw you into a jungle, you'd look pretty stupid next to every other animals.

Even within humans, there's a huge gap in intelligence. Some people are geniuses, some people are dumbasses. Smart people can create tools for dumbasses to use, but it doesn't mean everybody with access to the tools is just as smart as the guys who made them.

Anonymous Sat May 24 17:45:33 2014 No.5463310

>>5463303
>you'd look pretty stupid
No, not really. A human would look pretty smart because they would adapt to their new surroundings fairly quickly rather than animals which take many, many generations to learn tricks to survive in a new place.

I swore I wouldn't respond to this thread anymore, please stop tossing out bait. I am weak and feeble and I take it every time.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:47:32 2014 No.5463313 File: 90 KB, 550x375, eco system.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >b-but muh eco systems People will retort to the most retarded arguments to justify shit they only do for a habit.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:48:50 2014 No.5463314 >>5463313 Just saying, if you did end farming alltogether and toss those guys into the wild they would all die off. It's your choice if that's a better fate than endless servitude and slaughter.

Anonymous Sat May 24 17:51:52 2014 No.5463316
File: 51 KB, 500x400, 1379888004648.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5463314
How does your brain even compute at such a low level of intelligence?

>If I cut off my legs and arms I might just peel my skin off too as I won't live long either way. Oh well, better start cutting my legs off!

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:52:09 2014 No.5463317 >>5463314 What if we finish up what we have and then end the cycle?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 17:54:39 2014 No.5463321 >>5463316 Explain what your problem is with my statement please. >>5463317 That is arguably viable, I guess that's fair enough. Either way it is the end of their species, mind you, but that probably is the most humane thing to do.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 18:19:39 2014 No.5463356 >>5463317 That's not how life works, you fucking retarded fuck. See, this is why no one with any valuable knowledge of animals can take vegans seriously. You are all morons.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 18:21:52 2014 No.5463362 >>5463289 Citation needed, you fucking imbecile.

Anonymous Sat May 24 19:27:53 2014 No.5463495

>>5463244
>it needs dead matter or added minerals.
>anyone who has ever grown anything will tell you dead matter compost beats plant compost every time.
Are you suggesting dead plant material isn't "dead matter"?

If plant compost was worthless, forests and other terrestrial ecosystems would never have evolved and sustained themselves for millions of years.

It's like you have no idea about the carbon cycle.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 24 19:55:15 2014 No.5463566 >>5463202 just because we would have empathy doesn't mean we can't have advancements in technology.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 25 02:38:34 2014 No.5464402 vegans are similar to christians, they want to hold back society because of a useless sense of morality that only exists in their tiny little brains. wimps.

>>	OP Sun May 25 02:44:33 2014 No.5464408 And my work here is done......

>>	Anonymous Sun May 25 15:00:30 2014 No.5465399 >>5462420 I don't know about the rest of these guys but torturing animals before I kill them is fucking fun. inb4 bloobloo much defenseless animals they should just got gud

>>	Anonymous Sun May 25 15:01:51 2014 No.5465403 >>5462333 nice trips

Anonymous Sun May 25 15:07:33 2014 No.5465423

>>5462259
you must be eighteen to post on this website.

also you're starting flamewars, shitposting and being a dick to people.

keep your veganism to yourself, if you're really so adamant about wanting to make a change go bomb a Tyson's plant then. this isn't your blog, hugging ground or personal stage to bitch.

Anonymous Sun May 25 15:19:08 2014 No.5465456

>>5463168
>>you cant get through life without killing something so that means you have to kill everything and eat it
listen dumbass I know this may come as a surprise to you, but there is this thing called hyperbole, and you don't actually have to become jesus incarnate to actually you know, do yourself one better. and no, the way humanity is killing animals now is not going to save the environment.

Anonymous Sun May 25 15:31:01 2014 No.5465483

LOL, take away our ability to eat animals and we will be eating vegetarians within a week. I am perfectly ok with this. You are all going to look pretty stupid on my plate. Actually a few of you will at a time, because your so scrawny I will have to serve 3 or 4 up at a time to my family. I look forward to eating you, and its not like you can do much about it, since you all likely dont believe in guns either.

>NOM NOM NOM

>>	Anonymous Sun May 25 16:35:43 2014 No.5465669 >>5462473 "Are cruelty and murder really delicious enough to be justified? Is bacon not to be salivated over, but feared? Go vegan."

>>	Anonymous Sun May 25 16:39:48 2014 No.5465689 >>5462259 True veal is from aborted cow fetuses. The best seafood is still wriggling when it gets to your mouth. Foie gras is tortuously delicious.

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/ck/ - Food & Cooking