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/ck/ - Food & Cooking

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5381804 No.5381804[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

How the fuck do you buy wine? There are like a 1000 things to choose from and picking randomly by price doesn't work very well for me.

>> No.5381816

>>5381804
Taste some, ask the staff, and/or look online at wine rating sites.

>> No.5381825

>>5381816
I've been looking at this
http://buyingguide.winemag.com/toplists/2013/bestbuys/

I've also tried the best of 2013 list as well.

And I can't find any of them on my liquor store site.
http://www.totalwine.com/

>> No.5381862

Ask the people for a dry and wet white and the same for a red.

Then make judgements from there. I bee-lined towards wet red.

>> No.5381879

Go to a store that holds tastings and classes. You learn about wine by drinking wine. Consider wines from other than France and Italy. Spain for instance, less demand lower price. You can buy more wine that way.

>> No.5381996

Op, I started drinking wine about 8 years ago, it was just one mission in a sequence of missions to become an informed drinker. I figured it would be a phase like my beer phase and my whisky phase and all the rest, but as it turns out there's enough in there for a lifetime and then some.

My best advice for you would (1) drink wine as much as possible, and (2) find a few stores where you feel comfortable talking to the staff (restaurants are also great as it helps with understanding the relationship to food)

Lately I've noticed an interesting trend, which is that my favorite wine shops also have fairly active blogs. This can help in a couple of ways. First, it establishes that the guys running the place are staying on top of the latest things, which means you may have a better chance of staying ahead of the curve (when a trend goes mainstream, prices go up). Second, it gives you a pretty good clue as to the target demographic. Chances are if you're like most of 4chan you're not a middle aged executive so if they're constantly going on about some $100 bottle being "the value of the century" they're probably not going to have the most interesting choices for a guy aiming for a $20 bottle to take home for dinner. On the flip side, it's probably a red flag if there's no expensive or rare stuff on hand whatsoever.

Learn everything you can about every single bottle you drink, and note which ones you liked. Eventually you'll start noticing things in common and even if you're not the type to talk about "garrigue" and "cassis" flavors, you'll have some ammo to take with you when you're facing an unknown inventory and you need some help. Remember that a grape can taste really different depending on where it was grown and how it was turned into wine, so don't assume you hate, say, chardonnay, just because you didn't like the first bottle you tasted.

>> No.5382013 [DELETED] 

>>5381804
I like to buy white wine. The only real way to gauge what wine you should buy is to taste lots of different kinds. Experiment; buy different varieties of grape, buy wines from different regions/countries. That's how I do it.

>> No.5382267

>>5381996
Not op but that was some useful info. Thanks anon

>> No.5382278

>>5381804
I take my price range and style, look at all the wines there that fit those qualifications, then throw out all the ones with try hard labels. Then I throw out all the ones with uninspired labels. Then there's usually only a couple left and I just go for it.

>> No.5382285

On a slightly related topic, why is sake always classified as a wine in the states?

>> No.5382291

Some good links have already been post, but you really need to learn for yourself. There's the taste and then there's the price. There's also the occasion and the meal.

Protip: Buy cheap moscato, pour into a large resealable fridge bag (1 gal should do), and store in a freezer. Wait till it freezes and then pour and serve your wine slush. Great for hot days.

>> No.5382309

>>5382285
it's not anywhere civilized
but some states/counties have ridiculous abv laws so they legally have to consider it wine
its stupid but it's not like it matters

>> No.5382323

If I'm in a shop I look for bottles with not much dust on them and if it looks like someone has grabbed a few bottles from the front of the shelf and a staff member hasn't walked past and moved the stock forward.

Otherwise if you're trying to pair it with food you can just read the back of the bottle and it will tell you what it goes with.

>> No.5382353
File: 294 KB, 1190x1610, Different-Types-of-Wine-Infographic-Chart3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5382353

OP here. I found a good site for basics if anyone else was wondering

http://winefolly.com/review/different-types-of-wine/

>> No.5382365
File: 246 KB, 960x1280, WineSnob.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5382365

>>5381804

>>This

>> No.5382403

>>5382323
>you can read the back of the bottle and it will tell you what it goes with

That's only the case with wines crafted to appeal to non wine drinkers. Expect loud simple flavors when you see reviews and pairing suggestions on the label. Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you.

>> No.5384203

>>5382353

This schema makes my assburgers itch. Should be many to many.

>> No.5384208

>>5381804
I suggest you start by reading one of Hugh Johnson's geographic guides to wine. They're very informative, give you a concrete list of wines to taste, and explain/familiarise you with the flavour elements so you can both identify and relate to them. Then you go from there.

>> No.5384281

How long should I put wine in the freezer before serving?

>> No.5384320

op plks don't become a wine wanker talking about body and nose and all that bullshit

pls

>> No.5384323

>>5384320

You're that guy who gets mad when people say "umami" aren't you?

>> No.5384363

Nobody is willing to admit that all wine tastes the same.

Just get some Port.

>> No.5384367

>>5384323

Because savoury doesn't sound pretentious enough.

>> No.5384369

it's like buying bud from a dealer.
Most of it is buzzwords to get you to pay more

>> No.5384376

>>5382291
thanks, something to look forward to this summer

>> No.5384386

>buy wine
>oh wow this is so delicious
>check label
>6% alcohol
Oh...

I thought dessert wines were supposed to be high abv%?

>> No.5384394

>>5384386
All wine is the same. You got taken in.

>> No.5384502

>>5381804
All these wine faggots are going to give you bad advice because they've all got their heads stuck up their asses.

Find an inexpensive bottle of something that sounds like it'd be good, try it. If you hate it, move on.

Read this

http://www.forbes.com/sites/katiebell/2012/07/09/is-there-really-a-taste-difference-between-cheap-and-expensive-wines/

>> No.5384533

>>5381862

Don't ask them this.
They will laugh at you for being a tard.
Sweet is the opposite of dry.

>> No.5384537

>>5381804
Go travel around Europe for a few months. Drink constantly. Write down which wines you enjoy and where you drank them. Look for wines from those regions when you get back to America. Enjoy.

>> No.5384563

>>5384502
>everytime
This is why food writers, especially ones who want to claim in-depth knowledge, bordering expertise, should all be publicly flayed. She is a stupid cunt, and all those thinking that, especially when other factors of a wine are modified to create false pretense (most of the cases she brings up) means jack shit. Oh look, taste is susceptible to getting fucked with by visual and olfactory cues, especially when people are told they should be looking for certain tastes, and even further, when people aren't trained in tasting in the first place. No shit.

>> No.5384587

>>5384563
But it makes me feel bad when there's a topic too complicated to be distilled into a 5 word clickbait headline. I think I'll go with the "wine is bullshit" point of view rather than your elitist made up words I don't understand.

>> No.5384594

>>5384563
>>5384587

Totally ignoring the point that in blind taste tests wines that are cheaper usually beat more expensive.

The writer didn't invent the facts in that article, she's relaying them.

A large part of the perception of 'fine wine' is subconscious, deal with it.

>> No.5384602

>>5384594
Do you realize inexpensive wines are intentionally made to taste more appealing to non wine drinkers?

My store actually has labels on some wines: no refunds if you don't like it. It's not on the yellow tail.

>> No.5384603

>>5384602
Do you realize you're full of shit?

There's this thing called science, and it says you don't know what you're talking about.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-decision-tree/201207/cheap-and-expensive-wine-taste-the-same-in-blind-taste-tests

>> No.5384605

>>5384602
http://www.wired.com/2011/04/should-we-buy-expensive-wine/

>> No.5384608

>>5384594
Again, there are so many more factors than the wine itself. Who is doing the tasting? Under what pretense? In all but one of the cases that article lists, there is pretense that negates a truly blind tasting. The one exception being "The Judgment of Paris", which only goes to show that it is possible to create a damned good wine outside of France.

>> No.5384610 [DELETED] 

>>5384608
>The one exception being "The Judgment of Paris"

Because that is the only wine tasting ever to use blind tasting, amirite?

>> No.5384615

>>5384608
I get it, you reject consensus reality as established through repeatable experiments because it rustles your jimmies.

No one and nothing can convince you that your deeply held personal beliefs are anything but the gospel truth.

>I don't believe in evaporation!
>I mean, if water turns into steam then why is there still water?

>> No.5384616

>>5384603
Just go back to your Penn and Teller vids, you're fetishising the concept of science without understanding how science actually works.

>> No.5384618

>>5384610
Because that is the only point that was raised, amirite?

>> No.5384620

>>5384615
show these examples of reality

>> No.5384621

>>5384616
Character assassination doesn't make the results of double blind studies wrong.

It makes you a dunce.

>> No.5384624 [DELETED] 

>>5384621
See >>5384605 >>5384603 and >>5384502

>> No.5384625

>>5384621
Ad hominem

>> No.5384629

>responding to tone
That's what you guys are doing right, naming fallacies?

>> No.5384632

>>5384624
see
>>5384608
>Who is doing the tasting? Under what pretense?
Even if it is a true blind tasting, asking people who know jack shit about wine and haven't trained their palates to judge, and expecting highly accurate results is simply idiotic.
Even in such cases, the results tend to be more accurate than I would expect. Many are over 50% accurate.

>> No.5385472

>>5384632
>Many are over 50% accurate.
What does that mean? Like "arrange these wines in order from most to least expensive"?

>> No.5385475

When someone points out that food tastes worse when you're told it's meat from executed prisoners and forced to consume it in a lavatory while having vomiting noises piped in over the PA system, no one says "omg told u so food is a scam". What's special about wine where this is this reaction to something I should think would be blindingly obvious?

>> No.5385490

Coolaid tastes better than the most expensive wine you can find.

The media puts shit in your head about what's "classy" and "desirable" and then you want to buy it because that's what the non-plebs on the tv do.

>> No.5385495

>>5385490
>The media puts shit in your head

Here comes the guy who soaks his brain in television and then blames others for his own stupid opinions.

>> No.5385542

After a while you will find a combination which you generally enjoy. Personally I find that if I buy a Chilean merlot there's a 90% chance that I'll like it, others have their own favourites but that works for me.

>> No.5385553 [DELETED] 

Just ask people that are in the business and family. I prefer Spanish Rioja's, but that's me. Once you try some stuff out and you will then you'll see what you personally like. Then you into pairings and stuff like that.

White wines personally give me an upset stomach, I like the reds myself, but that's me. Have some fun trying out different ones. Just ask around. A lot of wine places have tastings, try the different ones out. Even the Aussies come up with some nice reds.

>> No.5385560

>>5381825
Pretty much this. If you can't shop somewhere you can try the wine (stick to what you have tried n the past, or) wing it by reading ratings about best buys, and why it's rated such, so you can go "mm, like sweet" as something you'd gamble on within the individual descriptions. I also think it's great advice to get yourself on a little kick about one grape, and once you have it down, you move onto the next grape. Start with reisling, for instance, and then get the spectrum down. Then move onto muscat, get a little into dessert wines, or sparkling wines. You will be least likely to forget what it is that you like about one wine vs the next if you expose yourself by grape variety, til your palate is filled with more memories.

Ever had a bad wine? What didn't you like about it? Now look for the polar opposite next time. I'd pretty much assume you never need to order expensive. The world of imports are such that anything priced high is something a collector is storing from a good year, or import fees. Whatever grape it is, can usually be found growing somewhere else now and being shipped to you for less. It's an over-generalization, of course, but a good rule of thumb to skip it for another choice. It takes a good year before prices catch up to awards/ranking, so shop somewhere with wine ethusiast or other rankings, and look at tags with that 92, or 93, and feel a bit more empowered. But, read the description and look for keywords that turn you off. Don't like oaky aged tasting, skip that pinot grigio where they're raving about the oak. Clean finish? Might be dry, and therefore less sweet. You'll get better at it. Trial and error. Once you like something you tried, you should easily be able to buy it a few more times over, for say, a couple of years before it gets high or you find something else you like better.

>> No.5385563

>>5382285
It's lower alcohol. It doesn't fit the high alcohol content restrictions whereas those with only a beer/wine license can't sell it. It's not wine.

>> No.5385581

>>5385495

You're damn right.

>> No.5385610

>>5385560
>The world of imports are such that anything priced high is something a collector is storing from a good year

That's not always true, even inexpensive wines with a short drinking window can be subject to fluctuations in price if one year is particularly good. It's not just speculators with a huge wine vault in their basement.

>> No.5385736

>>5385610
Why do you sometimes hear "oh this wine needs to age a few years" "drink this in 2016" etc.? How do they know what it will taste like then?

>> No.5385745

>>5385736

Experience.

What else would be the bloody answer? A miniature time machine built into every cork?

>> No.5385754

>>5385745
If wine is so complex and all these tiny little things change it then how could it ever be predicted?

>> No.5385774

>>5385754

What do you mean by "predicted", do you actually mean "controlled"?

I don't know if you realize that the factors that control wine flavors have been studied extensively and for the most part can be looked up easily in many books. That doesn't translate into "anyone can easily and cheaply make an exact clone of any other wine", but it does mean that the knowledge required to predict something like a drinking window isn't esoteric.

>> No.5385775

>>5385754

Intuition based on personal and collective knowledge derived from experience with cellaring wines.

>> No.5385976

>>5381804
it's mostly the same shit.
The difference in taste is only a psychological effect.

>> No.5386443

>>5385976

As an avid reader of Cracked.com and Business Insider articles, I can confirm this. Words like "Chardonnay" and "Zinfandel" are social constructs. I mean, what do those even mean? It's like organic food. Liberal logic at work, folks. This is why the minorities have taken over.

>> No.5386600

>>5381804
my ex was a big wine nut. She always picked australian wine. I've kind of just stuck with that as I'm not a huge wine fan but like to have some around for when I'm entertaining

>> No.5386682

>>5384602
Don't talk shit on Yellow Tail, that is a perfectly fine wine to get hammered on.

>> No.5386694

>>5386682
Let's agree to disagree. Where I'm from that stuff retails for like $8. Even at that price you should be able to do way better.

>> No.5386699

>>5386694
Well there are certainly better wines out there, but if you are looking to get blitzed on the cheap Yellow Tail isn't a bad choice. Now, I would never serve it with a meal.

>> No.5386703

>>5381996
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhMhyZDpJ6o

>> No.5387597

>>5384563
part of enjoying food is accepting deception. if you believe something tastes better it actually does taste better, that's just how people work.

Why do people present food visually appealing ways? Does it make it taste better? Yes.

Why do people like shit they ate as a kid? Is it actually good or is nostalgia/some form of association? The nostalgia makes it taste good.

Why do people pay hundreds of dollars for coveted foods? Do they really taste good? Yes, and partially because they are elusive.

>> No.5387970

There are only two types of wine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw2gGfD5R4g

>> No.5388064 [DELETED] 

>>5385736
Bullshit like De Beers asserting that diamonds are rare. Buying up everything and promoting it as rare...

It's called marketing.

>> No.5388070 [DELETED] 

That can also be called entrenched intrests such as weed being illegal. It keeps a lot of people in business to say that people freak out after smoking a J. That simply wasn't happening until it was made illegal in the first place and federal government used that as an excuse to trample on the Constitution and state's rights.

There simply was no crime involved in it.

Reefer madness MAAAAANNNN!

>> No.5388159

If you want a good table (read: drink like a fish) wine for yourself and potential cougars that you're entertaining- carlo rossi in the jug. Most of the line is good, I usually stick to the sangria though.
There's some great stuff coming out of Marlborough, NZ. I haven't had a bad wine from there yet, blancs and burgundys.
The wine I usually bring as a gift for hosts is Zeller Schwarze Katz, it's a reasonably priced Riesling blend that pairs with light fare or just drinking. Inoffensive but enough alcohol for social lubrication.

It's just fucking wine, it's made to be enjoyed, don't worry about it—
"Wine is wholesome, gives health to the sick, joy to the sorrowful, courage and bravery to those who are well."

>> No.5388223

>>5388064
but if you've already bought the wine why does it matter?

>> No.5388298

My foolproof method for choosing wine has several criteria. First, it must have a cork, no twist offs.
Second, the label must be paper, none of this machine printed on glass shit, in addition said paper label must be slightly crooked, and not in the same place on every subsequent bottle, this shows that the label was applied by hand and the bottler was likely drinking their product when it was put on.
Condition the third, no fresh wine, at least one year prior to the date of purchase.
And finally pay no more then $10 a bottle, not ever, anything more than that and you're paying for the name and likely as a new wine drinker won't taste the difference anyway.

Following these rules has bought me decent wine more times than not.

>> No.5388302

>>5388298

10/10

this is breathtaking

>> No.5389436

>>5388223
If you can convince someone that something they bought will appreciate in value(ie taste), they will continue to buy your shit right now, which keeps the doors open.

>> No.5389457
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5389457

>>5389436

Actually the practice of wine futures and wild aftermarket speculation is a specialty of the French wine business. The Spaniards do it right: hold it until it's ready, and only then sell it. Pic related, it was released in the 2000s. R. Lopez de Heredia is another like Murrieta, their current Gran Reserva is from 1994.

There's a newer company called Beronia that takes this to extremes, one of their Gran Reservas is from the early 1980s. It's not even all that expensive.

French wine is great and all, but Spain is for drinking well on the cheap.

>> No.5389466

>>5388298

>pay no more than $10

You must be new to buying wine.

>> No.5390701

>>5389466
>>5388298
>>pay no more than $10

>You must be wine.

I can quote out of context too.
The intent of the statement was that as someone new to wine, the op, not yet having a developed palate for wine would not taste the subtle differences anyway.

>> No.5391156

>>5390701
Wait, you were being serious with all that? Corks and labels and everything?