/ck/ - Food & Cooking

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Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:03:10 2014 No.5309577 [Reply] [Original]

Alright /ck/

I'm going to try and go vegetarian.

I know, I know.

It's not because I give a shit about animal cruelty, or any of that bullshit. I have high cholesterol. I've been eating red meat almost everyday..since forever. It's because of my health. I'm probably going to drop butter, cooking everything in oil, and cheese too. At least for the most part.

Where do I start /ck/?

I've read a few blogs and posts and shit. I can't read them anymore. Muh animal cruelty etc.

My favorite foods are hot wings, steak, baked potatoes with half a stick of butter on that bitch, ribs, you know. I plan on being here for the long haul though, and getting a heart attack at 40 isn't something I want.

If anyone could offer protips, recipes, anything really. I would appreciate it. This is all new to me.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:11:11 2014 No.5309600 File: 11 KB, 251x242, 1340931626706.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] yeah, because who cares about animal cruelty

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:12:11 2014 No.5309601 just stop eating meat. how is it that hard? never understood why people need advice to stop doing something. just stop. fuck.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:14:11 2014 No.5309605 >>5309600 I didn't mean it like that. I just have my own problems, and that's not why I'm going this route. >>5309601 Wow 10/10 post thanks for contributing!

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:15:10 2014 No.5309606 How overweight are you, OP?

Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:17:10 2014 No.5309618

>>5309577
>I need to eat healthy
>but I want to eat shit food
just eat healthily
there's no sly way of enjoying the foods you like, or foods similar to them, so that you don't actually have to change your diet

just google vegetarian or vegan recipes, it's not hard to find food that doesn't have meat in it

Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:17:10 2014 No.5309619

>>5309606
I'm 5'11, 185. 24 years old.

I feel like I look like I'm in pretty decent shape. I still have shit genetics though, apparently, because my doctor said if I don't drop my cholesterol in the next year or so, I'll need to start taking pills for it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:17:10 2014 No.5309617 >>5309605 pro tip: just don't eat meat.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:18:10 2014 No.5309623 http://foodgawker.com/post/category/vegetarian/

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:24:10 2014 No.5309638 you should delete this thread and google more, faggot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:26:10 2014 No.5309645 >>5309577 start making curries. curries are pretty boss. i eat a lot of soups as well, especially bean heavy soups like black bean soup

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:27:10 2014 No.5309649 >>5309618 I'm googling along side of this thread. I'd like to see some other people's favorite recipes too. >>5309623 Excellent. Thanks. >>5309638 You should go post in a Chipotle shill thread, faggot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:28:10 2014 No.5309652 >>5309577 http://www.pinterest.com/vfortheanimals/go-vegan-its-easy/

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 14:31:10 2014 No.5309662 >>5309649 You should ask about their "veggie burritos" shit posting faggot.

Anonymous Thu Mar 27 17:29:55 2014 No.5310097
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i applaud you, OP. you're taking your first step into a larger world. where to start? lots of great blogs out there: rawesome vegan life, vegan yumminess, and veganricha are among my faves.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 17:35:55 2014 No.5310112 Stop buying meat. Shop only in the veggie aisle. Beans and rice. Stir fry is your friend.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 17:50:56 2014 No.5310153 >>5309617 but HOW

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 17:52:55 2014 No.5310157 just don't be a fucking idiot and continue consuming milk/cheese get daiya son and BHUJA BHUJA and saffron road crunchy chickpeas, bitch

Anonymous Thu Mar 27 18:30:56 2014 No.5310291
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>>5309601
I agree with you in that cutting out meat was easy for me, but the issue of "just stop doing it" is that OP actually needs to replace meat with other stuff, and the right stuff.

>>5309577
Beans and nuts. Lots of them. High protein content, low fat, low cholesterol. Tofu is really good too, as long as you know how to cook it (see: cook it with lots of other good veggies and spices so it doesn't taste bland). If you start to miss meat too much, spicy foods and teriyaki sauce have always been helpful to me. You'd also probably be fine going pescetarian (meaning you stick to seafood) or just cutting out red meat alone. Also, I'm sure you'd be fine using eggs most of the time as a meat replacement, although ask your doctor about that first. Sweet potatoes fried in garlic, onions and mushrooms is my favourite replacement for the whole potato + dairy combo, but that depends on your taste. Experiment.
This all being said, if you're going to go vegetarian, don't expect to find a lot of easy 1:1 replacements for meat (especially since you're big into steak and wings). You'll have to learn ways to structure your meals completely differently. Also, here's an article about getting the protein you need (iirc it's pretty minimal on the >muh animal cruelty angle).
>http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.php

Let me know if there was anything I didn't address, and sorry for the shitty format etc. etc.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 18:31:56 2014 No.5310297 File: 47 KB, 148x163, dieAlready.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5310112 >>5310157 Also this

Anonymous Thu Mar 27 18:37:55 2014 No.5310319

Go on pinterest OP. You can find plenty of vegetarian dishes without having to sort through the "mug animal cruelty" bullshit.

Also, if you still get cravings for meat, you can always supplement those cravings with healthier meats such as chicken or fish, with the occasional bit of pork thrown in (not bacon or sausage tho, try pork chops, shoulder, and tenderloin)

I try to do 4-5 days per week vegetarian, with the remainder eating meals with chicken or fish. I only eat red meat maybe once every month.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 27 18:40:55 2014 No.5310328 >>5309577 http://www.pinterest.com/vfortheanimals/go-vegan-its-easy/ http://ck.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=vegetarian

Anonymous Thu Mar 27 19:16:55 2014 No.5310407

First of all, disregard the advice of the military vegans in here. There are plenty of ways to lower your cholesterol without obsessively cutting all animal-products out of your life.

One good way is to focus a lot on eating foods that are high in the good fats - Avocados are one thing I'd highly recommend, as is oily fish like cod or salmon or what have you. I know that eating fish would make you a pescetarian rather than a vegetarian, but fish-oils have so many health benefits that you'd be better off eating it than not. And they won't raise your cholesterol either.

And hell, you can still eat other kinds of meat every now and then too without having to worry too much about the cholesterol content, just as long as it's lean. Things like barbecued chicken-breast, lean mince (providing you don't cook them in loads of oil) are fine.

Stop using butter, switch to oil. Olive is a good one, but it has a pretty strong flavor so it won't be suitable for everything. Keep a couple more neutral-tasting oils around too, like canola or vegetable, but make sure you're primarily using olive.

If you're getting the cravings for meat a lot, try eating mushrooms. The texture and taste are pretty 'meaty', it should slake the cravings.

And one of the most important things, don't tell people that you're a vegetarian - they'll ask a million stupid questions and assume you're going to rain on their meat-eating parade. Just say you're on a certain diet if specifically asked.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 06:18:18 2014 No.5311583

>>5310407
The more people who are openly vegetarian/vegan, the more people will be aware of the reasons behind this, nutrition, etc. So, after a while people will stop asking stupid questions and hopefully stop getting so defensive.

Might be better to wait til you've been vegetarian/vegan for a good while though before you start being open about it. I remember when I first went vegan and people found out, I got a lot of shit. But over time I learned how to respond to it better and I learned that a lot of what people told me was bullshit.

For example - one guy tried to tell me that undercover investigations were filmed in third world countries, not in the U.S. I kept researching though and I know the names of the farms and there are new undercover investigations of U.S. farms all the time. If he had told me that after I had been vegan for three years I would have immediately been able to call bullshit on that (would have tried to be polite about it, of course), but since I didn't know that much yet I just said something like, "Oh, yeah I don't know!"

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 06:44:17 2014 No.5311622

Buy beans, lentils, whole wheat pasta, black or brown rice, sweet potatoes, oats, and barley to make meals out of

You can figure ways to eat these things without adding oil and other unhealthy things. Tomato and citrus fruits like lime and lemon are awesome for flavoring most of these things.

Steel cut oats should be your staple breakfast, and if you eat it with some oranges, the vitamin C reacts with the phytonutrients in the oats to decrease oxidation of LDL, meaning less plaque formation in the arteries

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 06:54:04 2014 No.5311634

>>5310407
Overall very good advice but I've got to take issue with this.

>Stop using butter, switch to oil. Olive is a good one, but it has a pretty strong flavor so it won't be suitable for everything. Keep a couple more neutral-tasting oils around too, like canola or vegetable, but make sure you're primarily using olive.
The supposed health benefits of olive oil are largely supposition and buzz driven by marketing, there's practically no evidence to confirm it's particularly healthy., And actually it is less good as a cooking in a certain way because of the low/lowish smoke point (depending on type).

If the belief is that the high mono- and polyunsaturated fat levels are the benefit then guess what, rapeseed/canola is actually MUCH higher in monounsaturated fats (highest levels of the commonly available oils in fact). Also has a pretty high smoke point and no flavour to speak of in the processed varieties. So it's perhaps the ideal cooking oil for a lot of people in the west.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 07:05:03 2014 No.5311650

>>5309577
>I'm going to try and go vegetarian.
I wouldn't, read on.

>Where do I start /ck/?
Cutting out meat entirely will, guess what, make you crave meat. So just on general principles it's best to cut down on something, not cut it out.

Also, and here's the kicker, there's almost no evidence that dietary cholesterol affects blood cholesterol levels. You want to read that again and make sure it sinks in: the weight of evidence suggest that dietary cholesterol has NO effect on blood cholesterol levels

However from what you've said about your diet you could do with shifting it a bit anyway just for the overall health benefits of a more balanced diet (wider range of micronutrients, vitamins, minerals). #1 thing to do here is just eat more vegetables and fruits. Every day if you can manage it, but start small and work up.

In terms of specifically eating something that has a direct effect on blood cholesterol levels let me introduce you to your new best friend: soluble fibre. Oats are a great source of soluble fibre, and by eating them my whole life my 40s cholesterol levels are those of an 18 yr old.

So other than porridge, just get used to using a little oatflake or oat flour/ground oats in soups, stews, bread and other baked goods. Commercial oat flour tends to be expensive but you can make this yourself in any decent blender or food processor.

Hope it helps.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 07:53:03 2014 No.5311706 [DELETED]

A vegan whole food diet can reverse heart disease. I would just ignore anyone denying that animal products have a negative affect on your heart.

Plus, there are countless other reasons animal products are unhealthy. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that animal protein is carcinogenic, as just one of many, many examples.

Do your own research though and obviously don't take anything said on 4chan as truth. I'd like to spend more time going into detail, but I have to be up early.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 07:54:03 2014 No.5311709 >>5309577 >there exists only two states of consumption: gorging and abstinence

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 07:55:03 2014 No.5311710

A vegan whole food diet can reverse heart disease. I would just ignore anyone denying that animal products have a negative effect on your heart.

Plus, there are countless other reasons animal products are unhealthy. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that animal protein is carcinogenic, as just one of many, many examples.

Do your own research though and obviously don't take anything said on 4chan as truth. I'd like to spend more time going into detail, but I have to be up early.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 07:56:03 2014 No.5311712 >>5309619 >5'11" 185lbs unless you have 0 muscle mass, you're a liar

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 08:52:03 2014 No.5311775

>>5311634
Fair enough. I recently developed a medical condition (T1 Diabetes) which earned me a personal dietician who was touting the supposed benefits of olive-oil to me, but it's also entirely possible that her information was dated.

Honestly, nearly everything I see about any kind of oil has just as many supposedly reliable sources contradicting it - look at how controversial coconut oil is. Health-food shops praise it as the best thing on the planet while everyone at the hospital says it's shit. Hard to tell who to believe.

Thanks for the heads-up though, for some reason I was under the impression canola was one of the bad ones.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 08:55:03 2014 No.5311780 >>5311712 What is he lying about?

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 08:56:03 2014 No.5311782

>>5311775
>Fair enough. I recently developed a medical condition (T1 Diabetes)
Take that shit seriously dude. Diabetes is bad news, especially uncontrolled.

You should hit the gym or start running and be incredibly disciplined with your eating habits. You should see a medical professional for eating advice.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 09:08:17 2014 No.5311792

>>5311782
Trust me, I am.

Strenuous exercise is a bit of a problem because I constantly get hypos - even only sticking to slow-acting insulin means I'm prone to getting weak and woozy and needing to eat sweets to get myself back in order. Which of course kind of counteracts the effects of the exercise in the first place. But they said that I'm in pretty good shape and my levels are within healthy limits so I'm counting my blessings. Hell, they warned me that losing much more weight might make injections more problematic because I'd have an increased chance of hitting muscle.

And I am seeing my dietician, she's a bro. Been a while since my last appointment but since my levels haven't been doing anything retarded and I carb-count pretty accurately (the only exception is really in restaurants, all you can do is take an educated guess) I don't think I'll need to see her again for a while.

Thanks for the concern though - it's amazing how many people assume that Beetus is A) just something fat grandparents get or B) easily cured with the occasional injection.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 09:27:34 2014 No.5311808 >>5311780 >diabetes >almost requires cholesterol meds >only barely overweight

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 09:39:34 2014 No.5311821 >>5311808 Does OP have the Beetus though? I ctrl+f searched for diabetes, it only shows up four times counting me blogging about my own experiences with T1.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 09:47:34 2014 No.5311829

>>5309577
>I have high cholesterol. I've been eating red meat almost everyday..since forever. It's because of my health. I'm probably going to drop butter, cooking everything in oil, and cheese too.
I did this. It worked. My story:

Overweight, really high cholesterol and triglycerides. Doctor put me on three kinds of pills that she said I'd have to take everyday for the rest of my life.

Started working out and eating better over a year. Lost 40lbs, got the meds cut way down. Numbers still not good enough to stop taking meds, though.

Watched video of speech by Dr Neal Barnard, and figured why not try this?

Switched to vegan diet for three months. During the last month stopped taking my cholesterol meds entirely. Went to doctor, and my numbers were fine. Been eating vegan six days a week ever since, and off meds. Still working out, and am down another 20lbs. I'm slim, no longer medicated, and look and feel great.

Tips: You can still use oil, olive is good. Just avoid butter and all dairy, along with meat. For the first three weeks your food will taste like cardboard until your taste adjusts to no animal products. After a month you can include animal products once a week or so, either as a treat, or out of convenience (because sometimes eating a vegan diet can be inconvenient).

Get into Mediterranean and Asian food. Curries are great. Eat lots of beans and greens. Nuts are fine as long as you don't go crazy with them. Avoid sugar. Garlic, oil and hot pepper are your new best friends.

This diet CAN control cholesterol problems in many situations. Sure as fuck worked for me.

Good luck. And lift some fucking weights while you're at it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 10:35:34 2014 No.5311891 dietary cholesterol has no effect on serum cholesterol

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 10:38:34 2014 No.5311895 >>5311891 Maybe so, but saturated fat and fiber intake sure as fuck seems to.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 11:17:34 2014 No.5311956 Mushrooms are a good alternative to meat, because of their 'meaty' texture and firmness.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 12:02:22 2014 No.5312034

>>5311710
>A vegan whole food diet can reverse heart disease.
So can other diets. Including full-on Atkins incidentally!

>Plus, there are countless other reasons animal products are unhealthy. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that animal protein is carcinogenic, as just one of many, many examples.
What actual evidence can you point to that meat is this actively bad for you?

See the thing is this should be easy as hell to show/prove: two population groups, one with a meat-heavy diet and one that eats meat very very sparingly or no meat at all should have markedly different cancer rates according to you. But guess what? They don't.

Individual responses to different diets are also very interesting to ponder: one person can eat 'badly' and live a healthy life, dying quietly in their sleep in their 90s, another can live well, eat whole foods and plenty of veg and get cancer that kills them in their 40s.

As for the vegan diet, there is actually plenty of evidence that this is NOT good for you unless you're extremely dedicated to making sure you're not missing out on key nutrients, particularly the fat-soluble vitamins that dairy, fish and meat usually provide, and calcium. Fact is many vegans are calcium deficient, they just don't know it yet. But it's gonna bite them hard in the ass down the line, when it's too late to do anything about it.

And that's about all the sermonising about veganism that I feel up to today.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 14:48:53 2014 No.5312318 Going vegetarian is fine, but also get on statins. They really do help.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 14:50:53 2014 No.5312320 >>5311808 >type 1 "juvenile" diabetes >having anything to do with overweightness stop posting

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 16:38:17 2014 No.5312544

>>5311650

>Cutting out meat entirely will, guess what, make you crave meat

That's some pretty stupid reasoning. I can speak from experience that you stop craving it a while after you give it up, just like anything else. If the rest of your diet is good, you won't care about the few things you can't eat

>Also, and here's the kicker, there's almost no evidence that dietary cholesterol affects blood cholesterol levels

Industry lobby groups would have you believe this. The way they do it is they take people who are already on high cholesterol diets and add more dietary cholesterol, at which point the impact of the extra cholesterol is much lower. When you take healthy people and increase their cholesterol intake, their blood cholesterol increases significantly

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6142348
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2297284

It's true that saturated fat is the main thing that increases cholesterol, but then again where do you find one without the other?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 16:41:17 2014 No.5312551 >>5312034 >So can other diets. Including full-on Atkins incidentally! Please stop spreading lies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feCpP40ZHqI#t=2h38m31s

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 16:46:17 2014 No.5312570 >>5310097 OP wants to go vegetarian for health reason, not full blown mental illness like the veganfags.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 16:51:17 2014 No.5312579 >>5312570 If you're doing it for health reasons, you might as well go vegan. Eggs and dairy aren't going to help your health

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 16:52:17 2014 No.5312581

>>5311710
>Vegan whole food diet can reverse heart disease
Yes, by cutting out garbage eating habits. Going vegan necessitates the majority of the failings in the modern diet (fast food, excessive frying, dairy products, excessive meat intake) which has no significance on meat itself.
>Animal protein is carcinogenic
You're literally retarded. I'm too lazy to delve into why, but Examine has a good article on calling you retarded.
>http://examine.com/blog/high-protein-diets-linked-to-cancer-should-you-be-concerned/
If you're too lazy to read it, you can just read this study, which conclusive proves that everything we eat is carcinogenic, but also that nothing is carcinogenic: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23193004
>We selected 50 common ingredients from random recipes in a cookbook.
>RESULTS: Forty ingredients (80%) had articles reporting on their cancer risk.
>CONCLUSIONS: Associations with cancer risk or benefits have been claimed for most food ingredients. Many single studies highlight implausibly large effects, even though evidence is weak. Effect sizes shrink in meta-analyses.
The one thing that IS carcinogenic with meats only comes around when you burn it. Incidentally, burning ANY food is bad. Never eat burnt food. It's not healthy or safe.

Beyond that, vegan whole food diets actually aren't sustainable without external aid. There's one source of vegan B12. Seaweed. Seaweed that has so much iodine in it it can actually kill you. There's also a crippling lack of useful dietary fats (the omega-3's and omega-6's in vegetables have to be converted into a usable form; this conversion is about a 20:1 ratio, eg 20g of ALA is equal to 1g of EPA/DHA from fish oil) which are used at a basic level to create your cells. There's also heavy concerns with iron intake (non-heme iron has a garbage absorption rate; many vegans are anemic) and unless the diet is rich in nuts, heavy metal intake issues (magnesium, zinc, etc) are quite common as well.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 16:53:17 2014 No.5312586 >>5312581 >There's one source of vegan B12. Seaweed. Nope. Also, if you bothered to read OP's post he is doing so for health reasons. He isn't concerned about the source of supplements.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 16:56:18 2014 No.5312593

>>5312581

Damn, with all that science you've spit out, you'd think vegans weren't consistently the healthiest group of people in every study we do. I wonder what magic spells they cast on themselves to make them live longer despite obviously having a horrible diet*

*according to people associated with the meat industry

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 16:58:17 2014 No.5312596

>>5312581
>Beyond that, vegan whole food diets actually aren't sustainable without external aid.
"External aid"? How is eating food or taking a supplement not "external"? Or is this a naturalistic fallacy in its infancy?

>There's one source of vegan B12. Seaweed.
hahah nope.

>Seaweed that has so much iodine in it it can actually kill you.
Is this a "dihydrogen monoxide kills thousands a year" argument?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 16:59:17 2014 No.5312597 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>IMPLYING DIETARY CHOLESTEROL INCREASES SERUM CHOLESTEROL

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:05:17 2014 No.5312610

>>5312581

>here's also a crippling lack of useful dietary fats (the omega-3's and omega-6's in vegetables have to be converted into a usable form; this conversion is about a 20:1 ratio, eg 20g of ALA is equal to 1g of EPA/DHA from fish oil) which are used at a basic level to create your cells

You're fucking the frog by not explaining how much omega-3 is required by the body (the same kind of argument people use to say "you NEED saturated fat! so eat 100x more than you need!")

And you're also making the same argument people make about beta-carotene from plants not being adequately converted into vitamin A, which ignores the fact that your body converts things as it needs it, and if you're getting a lot or pre-formed vitamin A or pre-formed omega-3 in your diet, your body doesn't need to convert as much. If your sole source is beta-carotene or ALA, your body converts more of it

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Research/Omega-3-ALA-intakes-enough-for-EPA-DPA-levels-for-non-fish-eaters

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:05:17 2014 No.5312612

>>5312596
>>There's one source of vegan B12. Seaweed.
>hahah nope.

Let's see some others then, other than supplements.

>Is this a "dihydrogen monoxide kills thousands a year" argument?

No, it's a much more logically sound one. If you ate enough seaweed to get your B12 then you would die from eating that much, therefore seaweed is a poor source of B12 in a vegan diet.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:06:17 2014 No.5312613 >>5312597 No one is saying that. But diet and lifestyle definitely influence serum cholesterol and study after study shows vegetarians generally have lower non-HDL cholesterol levels

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:06:17 2014 No.5312614 >>5312597 See >>5312544

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:12:17 2014 No.5312623 >>5312614 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24466502

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:15:17 2014 No.5312629

>>5312586
But yes. B12 is produced by a specific strain of bacteria. Other sources of B12 available in the contemporary diet are fortified. Also I'm just railing on idiot vegans, mainly.
>>5312593
They aren't. Comparing idiots with a bad diet to idiots with a worse diet isn't functional. If you want to look at health populaces, you should examine diets that exist in a real-world setting. According to the same studies that bring "Veganism is super healthy and perfect!", multi-vitamins kill you, aloe vera cures cancer (spoilers: aloe vera is carcinogenic) and something something wheat is bad. The healthiest diets the globe over are typically those that include a strong balance with a good amount of fish consumption. Comparing veganism to contemporary diets is a really good way to skew statistics, because there's an obvious difference between people with structured and unstructured diets. If you want a good approach to how diet influences human health, you either need to look at a non-contemporary diet or you need to approach two different structured diets, but you'll never actually see this happening with veganism. People are too interested in billing it as a "healthy alternative" without actually examining the basic diet, which is shit. The vast majority of people in NA have trash diets and chronic deficiencies; magnesium alone is deficient in >60% of the western populace.

The other significant aspect is that the majority of examinations are coming out of a period in which trans fat intake was rich. Any decently long study is going to involve older people who were alive during the 50's. When we ate a LOT of trans fats.
>>5312596
It's the opposite. Veganism often rides on an appeal to nature fallacy, which is patently false. We need the things we ingest from animal flesh. It's a basic part of our health. And no, it's not; the species of algae and seaweed which natively host B12-producing bacteria are actually so iodine rich that eating too much triggers toxicity.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:16:17 2014 No.5312631 >>5312623 That's not a study. Like I said, food industries are the worst threat to medical knowledge. You can design studies that show anything to make your product look good.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:18:17 2014 No.5312635 >>5312629 Lots of bacteria produce B12. It isn't a single species on kelp or a specific strain.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:20:18 2014 No.5312638
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>>5312629

>If you want to look at health populaces, you should examine diets that exist in a real-world setting.

Okay, let's check out the longest living people in the world, the people of Okinawa, Japan

Not strictly vegans, but a few grams of fish a day, not even half a serving, virtually no meat or dairy, large amounts of plant foods. More people live to be 100 in Okinawa than anywhere else in the world.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:28:17 2014 No.5312651

>>5312610
Gutted my post by accident twice now and listening to idiots is wearing me down, so final short post before I go;
>ALA
ALA is a piss-poor source. Conversion to DHA/EPA is poor, especially given that DHA and EPA are necessary to handle inflammation in the body as well as proper brain health. This is furthered by the fact that most sources of ALA aren't normally in the human diet. Unless you're really into eating massive quantities of Flax, for some reason, most sources of ALA have >10% ALA by fat content. If you ate 2000g of soybeans (2200 calories), you would get roughly 8g of ALA which even at ideal ratios would convert to less than 1g of omega-3.
>That link
Maintaining health is different from optimal health. Someone with a B12 deficiency won't die; they'll just become more and more tired until they eventually become permanently and irreversibly retarded due to brain damage. They'll only die once the amount in the body is insufficient to maintain basic functions. Complete depletion doesn't happen with DHA (the body is insanely good at holding onto it) but slow-moving mental retardation is not exactly the picture of "good health".

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:31:18 2014 No.5312657 >>5312638 >Not strictly vegans Yep. Glad we agree

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:32:17 2014 No.5312661

>>5312651

Maybe you should stop reading Chris Kresser's blog and start understanding nutrition so you don't have to come on /ck/ and try to mislead people with faulty information about conversion rates and what the body needs. You argue like every Paleo guru I've ever encountered; you pretend you know what you're talking about, but you take a non-issue like omega-3, cut out the context, and present half of the reality so that it looks like what you're saying is true, then deny the other half that explains why you're full of shit

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:32:17 2014 No.5312664

>>5309577

I'm a vegefag, but I eat a super high cholesterol diet. Sorry I can't help you, bruv, but eggs and butter and fried things are a staple part of my diet. I'd recommend a low-cholesterol diet (chicken tits and egg whites) over a vegetarian diet, just 'cause it's closer to what you're used to. Either way, really focus on significantly increasing the ratio of vegetable to non-vegetable in your diet, that's key. Best of luck!

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:34:17 2014 No.5312672 >>5312657 Is there really that big of a difference between 15 grams of fish and 0 grams of fish?

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:36:17 2014 No.5312682

>>5312672

Yes. Fish is highly nutritious. Go compare the nutritional content of 15 grams of fish with 15 grams of bitter melon (or whatever other Okinawan veggie that you prefer). That fish is an important part of the diet.

There's also the cooking fat (commonly lard, at least when I visited).

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:38:17 2014 No.5312690 >>5312682 >There's also the cooking fat (commonly lard, at least when I visited). haha no, that is just what the paleo fad sheep repeat.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:43:17 2014 No.5312706

>>5312682

>Fish is highly nutritious

There's way too many kinds of fish to say that, but even taking the top of the line fish like salmon, come on, 15 grams? If that's the reason they're #1, rather than 99% of their diet being healthy whole plant foods, wouldn't other countries eating much more fish have better longevity statistics?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:49:18 2014 No.5312722 >>5312706 They do. Unless they decide to fry all of it.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:51:17 2014 No.5312733

>>5312722

>They do

I mean better than the Okinawans with their measly 15 grams. I know fish eaters have better health than countries that eat worse meats like beef and pork. It doesn't necessarily mean the fish is the cause of everyone's health, especially when the rest of their diet tends to be things like legumes, whole grains, and leafy green vegetables

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 17:51:18 2014 No.5312731
File: 41 KB, 500x500, sup doc.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5309577
Comfort food is gone baby G!O!N!E!
No more animal products GOOD FUCKING LUCK BUDDY!
with everyone around you eating stinking cheese,
with everyone around you eating crispy flesh,
with everyone around you drinking syrups,
and all you got is tasteless shitty unsalted steamed veggies with rice.
You understand these ideas will pass in a short time. Animal products are nice but daily, weekly, even monthly are more than enough to keep you sick.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 18:10:17 2014 No.5312762

Beans and rice, lentils and barley, and yogurt with a variety of granolas are low in fat and sodium (depending on how you cook) and will provide you with the essential amino acids you need.

To get adequate protein intake, which you should really consult your doctor about, you may need to consume large quantities of them, however. At that point, it becomes about finding the right balance of animal derived proteins and plant based ones.

I hope that helps!

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 18:15:17 2014 No.5312776 >>5312762 Are you saying the body needs meat for protein. BULLSHIT

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 18:22:18 2014 No.5312794

>>5312776

Not at all. I stated that it's possible to have protein requirements that would make obtaining them solely from plants a less than ideal option versus adding some meat to the diet.

This would really depend upon the overall health and nutritional requirements of the individual, but is certainly a possibility.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 18:34:17 2014 No.5312808

>>5309577
I've been more less vegetarian lately due to eating super cheap. Mostly consist on rice and pasta with fresh vegetables when possible, otherwise canned. Also beans and peas and such, they're always good. I fucking love split peas. They're better with sausage or shit, but still damned good with just some jalapeno, onion, carrot, and spices.

Don't have much in the way of recipes though, usually just along the lines of chop/slice veggies, toss them on a cast iron griddle. Not the most exciting, but easy as fuck and tastes good enough.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 18:40:17 2014 No.5312815 How long before one of the vegans links some 'study' which claims that humans are biologically herbivores and that's why eating meat gives you cancer and obesity and diseases and if you eat it you may as well SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE FACE WITH GUNS!!!

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 18:50:17 2014 No.5312833 >>5311712 Dude, that's not an absurd weight to have. He's skinny but not a twig.

nstgar new Anonymous Fri Mar 28 19:00:17 2014 No.5312852

nice. it don't work. particularly op's pic. Would be truly disgusted,twice and ashamed that i havelet it it go to this point. half way decent rest homes, certififed (bad enough) but warehouses, outta sight outta mind? tis a thin line we all tread. simple things we forget quick. the least of these .A grasious plenty of them. me included. A good thing to remember, from my Dad and Mom .Despite stuff, we all bleed red and are easily wounded. and few "do overs".
Try not to pile on. hey common....stone cold. the least of these. What6 you think your so great your self??? Calm down. The least. if reading or watching, that's not you. yet. do the best ya can and towards others prettydamn good if heartfelt. if ya think easy, s'not. Now allow me to hobble to the kitchen and pick the raw onions off, prior to eating,green olives. jalapenos, ltm, extra banana,black olives, double chesse bmt. I admire subway. they are loike me.. over wirked, understaffed, not the best, but what do you expect < 9 bucks. And I might add help pray and to
likewise pray for people who have no one. That's you. Don't start trying to do everything in a day. It takes a while. just do the best, the very best,you can, then don't worry. but a tall order, eben, 'sepecially for moi. now allow me to hobble out , crack a beer, and check my sub (dammit I said no raw raw onions plus extra bannaa peppers...Shut up and eat, said a friend.you called, i came.um otay just glad to bide here. long winded, but thanks ck.whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it. you might amaze others and yourself. (hey I'm still picking out bits of raw garlic and onion on my bmt with double cheese)let it go. you have other things to worry about. and that is more than sufficient for anyone.

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 19:03:17 2014 No.5312857

I went raw vegan because my cancer relapsed and I was just given stabilization treatment (no more chemo yet not in remission) a week ago.
I attribute a lot of my recovery to my raw vegan diet and fasting.

But I also eat vegan foods here and there because why not, wild rice and couscous are delicious and provide me of calories.

Eat at least 8 portions of fruits and veggies a day, try going clean veg instead of fast food veg (so no processed tofu or soy shit, etc.)

Anonymous Fri Mar 28 19:10:17 2014 No.5312871

>>5312857
>clean

This is the real key right here, and it applies to an omnivours diet as well. It's not meat that's the real evil, it's the processed stuff that's loaded with artificial additives. Avoiding processed food of any kind is important. Some of those vegan meat substitutes contain more additives than fast food does, while others are much better. Compare, say, one of those morningstar patties with a portabello mushroom cap.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 19:12:17 2014 No.5312875 >>5312857 >Eat at least 8 portions of fruits and veggies a day, try going clean veg instead of fast food veg (so no processed tofu or soy shit, etc.) This. Regardless of your diet, stick to actual food, not processed shit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 19:13:17 2014 No.5312878 >>5312852 wat

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 28 19:50:38 2014 No.5312955 >>5309619 That's not overweight, I'm your exact specs and I'm a dyel bro.

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