/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.4904991]

Every
Fucking
Time

[Anonymous No.4904994]

Signal for a moment of time<

Swallow say "just fine"<

Go back to eating<

[Anonymous No.4904995]

Just put your thumb up, a universal sign of "good"

[Anonymous No.4904997]

Don't tip if they do that shit

[Anonymous No.4905004]

just spit your food out onto the plate when they do that, they'll get the message.

[Anonymous No.4905009]

>>4904991
>not making the universal gesture for jacking someone off onto your face in response to show how happy you are
>2013

[Anonymous No.4905041]

>>4904997
this.

[Anonymous No.4905043]

>>4904997
Fucking asshole.

[Anonymous No.4905045]

I seriously, seriously fucking hate over-attentive waiters and waitresses. I do not need to be visited every ten minutes during a meal. Fuck. Also, a restaurant is not the grocery store checkout line. I want to eat and talk to the person I'm eating with, not strike up a convo with the waitress.

[Anonymous No.4905046]

>>4905043
naw, comin' around asking questions while someone's got food in their mouth is awful service.

[Anonymous No.4905048]

>>4904991
They be this revolutionary concept I done heard of.

You give them a thumbs up and a nod.

I say goddamn, what innovation.

[Anonymous No.4905179]

>>4905043
What a great System?

[Anonymous No.4905230]

>>4905043
$2 an hour? What kind of backwoods shit are they working? I usually tip, but if you're the reason I can't enjoy my meal, you're the reason you don't get a tip. I'll gladly tip servers who come at me with a smile, the kinder they are the more I tip. That's how it works.

[Anonymous No.4905273]

>>4905230

Indianapolis, pretty consistent with the backwoods shit you're talking about

[Anonymous No.4905513]

>>4905043

>servers lying to the public in articles about how much they make and how terrible their lives are because of it

[Anonymous No.4905521]

>>4905043
aaaahaaaaa

Thats what ya get for not having a decent minimum wage nigga

[Anonymous No.4905527]

>>4905043
What a fat load of BS. If severs don't make min wage per hour with the base wage + tips, the restaurant makes up the difference on their paycheck. Plus, most severs don't report tips and thus don't pay taxes on them. No matter what, servers are getting at least minimum wage for a menial-level job.

[Anonymous No.4905599]

They do it on purpose so they never have to get you that bottle of ketchup.

[Anonymous No.4905605]

>>4905599
Yeah waiters in the /co/ thread were talking about how they come by when your mouth is full so you won't complain/ask them to bring you shit.

[Anonymous No.4905641]

>>4905527
I've never worked in waitservice, but I know how I'd react were I a US-based restaurateur if a server of mine doesn't receive enough in tip to make up the difference between his/her wage and the minimum: I would sack him/her.

Would this not be likely quite commonplace, servers being made redundant because they aren't tipped enough? It just makes sense, you know. Restaurateurs are in business to earn money and if a server is costing a restaurateur a hundred dollars weekly because s/he doesn't receive enough in tips, I'm sure s/he'd be sacked. I know I'd get rid of some non-filial person from my life who's costing me over $5000USD annually. Wouldn't you?

Stating that the restaurant is required to make up the difference seems a moot point to me because the restaurant might do so once or twice, but I doubt it would do it a third time; rather, the server would just get sacked, end of story.

[Anonymous No.4905643]

>>4905043
>grad school
Hope they enjoy being a server for the rest of their life

[Anonymous No.4905645]

>>4905641
Pretty much. But unless the restaurant is already failing because of no customers, almost every single server makes at least minimum wage. Shit, most servers on average make $10-$15 an hour.

Back when I used to serve it wasn't uncommon to pull in over $100 for a 4-5 hour shift

[Anonymous No.4905647]

Last time at my fav pizza place. The pizza lady (simultaneously server and cook) was really, really pissed about something. Not sure why. I could see how she was about to burst. She even snapped at me a bit, barely holding her tongue but took my order just fine and the food was good.

Tipped her 25% just to make her day better.

[Anonymous No.4905650]

>>4905043
>bawww I signet to be exploited now you should pay up formy mistakes and low education!

faggot, he's lying too, they get minimal wage to begin with just like in any other job.

[Anonymous No.4905653]

>>4905650
> Not true in Arizona.

They do NOT get min. They get LESS than min.

[Anonymous No.4905656]

>>4905645
Unless s/he is a shit server. In the US, I've only refused to tip outright twice: once, when I was served clams that had obviously gone off and the waiter insisted "But everyone loves our clams!" I refused to pay for the meal. He said he'd call the police and I said that I'd call H&S or whatever the US equivalent of that is. He let the clams go but insisted I paid for the drinks and appetisers. Fair enough, but then he was upset that I scratched out the tip section of the print-out. As if threatening a customer, insisting obviously rotten clams are not rotten (he wouldn't eat it when I challenged him to taste for himself) and being generally rude and unpleasant altogether warrants a tip.
I was later informed that rude behaviour is common for Chinese waitstaff working in the US, so hurray racism, I guess.

The other time, I politely reminded a diner waitress that she'd forgotten the straw I'd asked for with my drink. She took a bunch and threw them down at the table in silent anger. I then fulfilled the US-held stereotype of the non-tipping European and left nothing. A small slight, I understand, but I was in no mood that day for that sort of behaviour from a food slave.
Otherwise, I tip quite well.

[Anonymous No.4905662]

>>4905656
If they are shit servers, they aren't destined long for this world.

The main problem I see with shit servers is that they need to have a slice of humble pie. You are there to serve, not to be treated as some sort of star. I always deferred to the customer unless they were obviously being belligerent and jewish. Most of the time I would get shots bought for me because I helped the customers have a great time in a great atmosphere, which is what its all about

[Anonymous No.4905663]

>>4905641
Well, if I had a grocery store I'd sack any cashier who doesn't manage to earn the difference between his/her wage and minimum by switching price labels of wares, short-changing customers and double-charging for some products when the customer is not looking. Shop owners are in business to earn money and if shopkeeper is costing the shop a hundred dollars weekly because s/he doesn't mooch enough from buyers, I'm sure s/he'd be sacked.

(Is the concept of paying for work strange to you?)

[Anonymous No.4905678]

>>4905663
Worst. Analogy. Ever. Perhaps logical analogy is beyond your abilities. It's okay, though, pic related.

[Anonymous No.4905684]

[Anonymous No.4905707]

No, I really don't understand the US. Imagine a clerk at an office asking for tips for accepting your tax forms, or a road worker stopping drivers to get tips for fixing the road. Or a fireman getting a tip for carrying you out of fire, or getting fired if he can't make his salary from tips from saved people.

Waiter/server is a job like any other. Why the fuck can't restaurant owner pay the employees like every other employer does?

[Anonymous No.4905710]

>>4905707
>Why the fuck can't restaurant owner pay the employees like every other employer does?

Because it's cheaper for both the customer and the waitstaff to use a tip system instead.

You see, business owners have to pay a lot of taxes on payroll. This, like any business cost, is passed onto the customer via the price of the food. Tips avoid taxes. Therefore it is cheaper for the customer to tip the waiter directly than it is to "pay them" directly through wages, because the gov't gets less of a cut. It saves the customer money. It also means the waitron gets paid more.

[Anonymous No.4905717]

>>4905647
This story made me warm inside.

[Anonymous No.4905718]

>>4905707
Tips are customary in Europe as well

[Anonymous No.4905719]

>>4905707
>Why the fuck can't restaurant owner pay the employees like every other employer does?

Because it's a win/win/win for everyone. If I'm a customer and dissatisfied with the service, I choose not leave a tip and save myself 10-20% on the meal. If I'm a server I am making well over minimum wage (and usually more than a lot of entry-level white collar jobs). And If I'm an employer I obviously like it because I can keep payroll costs down meaning I don't have to charge as much to the consumer

[Anonymous No.4905723]

>>4905717
wait i pissed myself
holy fuck

[Anonymous No.4905733]

>>4905663
>responds to a post using 'made redundant,' 'sacked' and commonwealth spellings and sentence structures
>obviously commonwealth English
>replies with a thinly veiled anti-American attack
You realise I'm not USican, yeah? I was just explaining how any business owner would run his/her business: by cutting costs where possible up to and including sacking under-performing workers. In the US, restaurateurs have the option, for better or for worse, of paying far below a proper, livable minimum wage. They also have the benefit of having what are called 'at will' labour laws meaning that they may sack anyone at any time for any reason that doesn't violate constitutional protections up to and including no reason at all. This is why mentioning that the restaurant must meet minimum wage per server is completely moot. The server will simply get sacked and that, as they say, will be that.

It'd be good if waitstaff were to receive proper pay, I guess, but to be honest, I like the American system. It keeps the cost of eating in quite low, even were one to tip at 20% the cost of the meal. Eating in in the UK and Ireland, for example, will cost 50% over the base cost for the same sort of meal in the US. A $12USD meal plus 20% tip would be a total cost of $14.40 in the US. The same meal in the UK without tip would cost ₤11,25, which is about $18. See?
It's a surprisingly more cost-effective system for all parties involved, employer, employee and customer alike. Employers keep their costs down by paying less for labour. Employees receive higher pay by receiving money directly. Customers pay less for their meals, too. It's beneficial to all.

[Anonymous No.4905739]

>>4905733
this redcoat gets it

[Anonymous No.4905741]

>>4905718
But totally optional: paid for superior service.

And the employees get standard salaries, standard obligatory insurance, social insurance, health insurance, obligatory health tests (you can't work with food if you have something that can infect the customers) and generally all benefits of an employee in a civilized country. Tips are just a little extra, a small thank-you for doing more than you're getting paid for.

[Anonymous No.4905744]

>>4905733
It's not beneficial to all because they're tax-evading criminals.

[Anonymous No.4905745]

>>4905733
Well, this is all fine and dandy until the server gets ill or injured, or even pregnant.
Minimum wage = no coverage. No leave period to seek new job. No salary for time you don't work. One day you slip and break your leg, another day you're without job, unemployable and starving. Oops. Sucks to be you.

The extra cost doesn't vanish. Consider it insurance against everything that may, and will happen.

[Anonymous No.4905754]

>>4905733
>Eating in in the UK and Ireland, for example, will cost 50% over the base cost for the same sort of meal in the US. A $12USD meal plus 20% tip would be a total cost of $14.40 in the US. The same meal in the UK without tip would cost ₤11,25, which is about $18. See?
You can't compare meal costs like this. America heavily subsidies their food, not to mention other variables that make such a comparison moot. It isn't tipping that is keeping American restaurant food cheaper.

Also, the tipping system results in workers not paying their fair share in taxes, which has a negative social effect.

[Anonymous No.4905756]

>>4905745
>Well, this is all fine and dandy until the server gets ill or injured, or even pregnant.
>Minimum wage = no coverage. No leave period to seek new job. No salary for time you don't work. One day you slip and break your leg, another day you're without job, unemployable and starving. Oops. Sucks to be you.
This. It is basically creating wage slaves that are fucked if anything goes wrong in their lives.

Job security benefits all. There is a reason why the archaic tipping system only exists in the restaurant business (and not even all restaurants, e.g.: fast food). It is "the way things are done" so no one tries to make changes and the business owners love it because the client directly subsidies his employee salaries.

[Anonymous No.4905773]

>>4905745
>>4905756
>>4905754
>all this ignorance

You really think if you were a server making $10 an hour flat with no tipping you'd be better off than if you were making money under the current system? Have either of you actually ever served a day in your life? I'm guessing not. Because if you had, you would know that the gov't requires you to claim your tips, meaning most servers pay taxes on at least some of their tips.

>Also, the tipping system results in workers not paying their fair share in taxes, which has a negative social effect.
50% of americans pay a net $0 in income taxes, and I guarantee you are in the bracket. I'm subsidizing your poor lazy ass.

>Well, this is all fine and dandy until the server gets ill or injured, or even pregnant.
Minimum wage = no coverage. No leave period to seek new job. No salary for time you don't work. One day you slip and break your leg, another day you're without job, unemployable and starving. Oops. Sucks to be you.
>he actually thinks this
>he thinks there is no such thing as social security, medicaid, unemployment benefits, food assistance programs, subsidized housing programs, guaranteed loan programs, etc. etc. etc.

Pro-tip: No on in this country is starving. There is a reason why the poor in America are the fattest in the world

>You can't compare meal costs like this. America heavily subsidies their food, not to mention other variables that make such a comparison moot. It isn't tipping that is keeping American restaurant food cheaper.
You're right, paying a mandatory VAT of 10-20% is much better than paying a completely optional tip of 10-20%

>wage slaves
oh dear god we got a live one
>Job security benefits all.
please explain to me how a server who makes $10 an hour has greater job security.

[Anonymous No.4905830]

>>4905745
There is no one stopping waitstaff from using some of their income to buy private insurance.
For a healthy nonsmoker between the ages of 18-32, it can be as low as $1500USD annually. That's barely over $100 monthly. Even the higher costs are only about $2800 each year, around $240 monthly. If they're making $10 hourly, a quarter of which is not being taxed, they're earning at least $17000USD after tax. With rent, food etc, they still have enough leftover for private insurance. Whether s/he chooses to buy it is up to his/her discretion, not the employer's nor the customer's.

>>4905754
Believe me, the US is not the only nation to subsidize its own food production. The UK, all of the EU member states, Switzerland, Norway, the Arab nations and others all do as well. In fact, the Eurozone pays more in farming subsidies than the US, EU paying about €50bil/$69USD annually compared to the US $30bil.
Furthermore, cost of living (grocery costs, rents/mortgages, travel costs, taxes etc) roughly even out between the EU and the US. The cost of a litre of milk in Italy, for example, costs about s single euro and the cost in the US (for a quart, rather than a litre) about a dollar.
So yes, I'd say it's a fair assumption to say that tipping is what keeps dining costs down.

[Rick Dominated No.4905918]

>>4904997
Congratulations
You.
Yes, *you* derailed the thread down the line of this tipping vs non tipping nonsense that we've all been down a million and a half times.
Go sit in the shame corner now, please. and think about what you've done.

[Anonymous No.4906470]

Tipping's shit when you have drinks with your meals.

[Anonymous No.4906554]

>>4904994
nice green text faggot

[Anonymous No.4906584]

>>4905773
>50% of americans pay a net $0 in income taxes
How does this justify wait staff not claiming all their income?

[Anonymous No.4906609]

>go to outback steakhouse hungover
>meal comes to $19.80
>give her a $20
>she doesn't give me back my change
>I haven't even tipped yet
>ask for my twenty cents
>passive aggressively smirks saying "oh normally customers don't want to deal with the change so we make it easy on them"
>"Do you ever make it easy on them in a way that doesn't profit Outback?"
>she says nothing
>tip her $2 because she fucked up big time

Fucking hate waiters god damn. They always manage to fuck up in one way or another

[Anonymous No.4906628]

>>4905045
>not chatting up a fit bird waitress

[Anonymous No.4906638]

>>4906609
>"Do you ever make it easy on them in a way that doesn't profit Outback?"
Awesome.

[Anonymous No.4906641]

>>4905043
>>4905179
Yeah, seriously. Sorry that I don't own the restaurant and control your wages. If you're that frustrated with how much you make, find a non-service job, don't pressure people to tip you regardless of their satisfaction of your service.

[Anonymous No.4906661]

>>4906609
>>tip her $2 because she fucked up big time
NO

[Anonymous No.4906671]

>>4906609
>"Do you ever make it easy on them in a way that doesn't profit Outback?"
Excellent.

But you still tipped her $2 man.

[Anonymous No.4906672]

>>4906661
>>4906638
he got a sassy remark and he tipped 10%

i would've tipped 20 cents

[Anonymous No.4906688]

>>4906609
>not calling out her manager and getting her into trouble for attempting to steal from you

[Anonymous No.4906716]

>>4905043
Too bad she doesn't live in a country where she can apply for any job she wants.

[Anonymous No.4906719]

aussie here

so i'd heard about this shit on /ck/ before i came to america, thought of my own solution

as soon as i saw the cunt coming i took the biggest fuckin bite i could, bitch probably thought i wouldnt say a word

proceed to chew food into fine mash until she gets to me and asks "how's your meal?" to which i reply "OH ITS GREAT IT TASTES REALLY GOOD THANKS" getting my mashed up food all over myself my table and the floor

fuckin cunt didnt come back

[Anonymous No.4906721]

>>4906628
I'm a chick. And when I eat in restaurants it's always with family I rarely get to see.

Also relationships/sex on my life goal list is like
1. Finish College education
2. Don't end up living under a bridge
> ....
> ....
> ....
> 100,000: hand holding?

Ain't got time fo' dat shit.

[Anonymous No.4906735]

>>4906721
fellow /chick/ hitachi magic wand amirite

[Anonymous No.4906754]

>>4906721
>Ain't got time fo' dat shit.
Fat? Fat.

[Anonymous No.4906764]

>>4906754
Without a doubt lol. Do you even have to point it out?

[Anonymous No.4906770]

>>4906719
Lel, upvote

[Anonymous No.4906775]

>>4906721
>im a grrrrrl xD

[Anonymous No.4906780]

>>4906754
Abused child but whatever you want to call it. I don't' t like being touched and keep to myself.

[Anonymous No.4906795]

>>4906775
Well okay how about i rephrase that to 'I am not attracted to women'

This isn't /r9k/, Background's blue.

And fat chicks have 0% problems getting laid or having bfs from what I see on my campus. I don't get why people think its hard for fat chicks to get laid. Plenty of rednecks and wiggers with low I.Q's for them to breed with.

[Anonymous No.4906803]

>>4906780
Le boo hoo.

[Anonymous No.4906818]

>>4906780
b..but my emotional problems. I HAVE to eat inordinate amounts of unhealthy food because how else to deal with problems?

[Anonymous No.4906855]

>>4906818
I never said I was fat, and I'm not. I'm 167 ATM but I'm 6' so it's proportionate.

Yay that's all sorted out then everyone, you can go back to arguing about tipping.

[Anonymous No.4906862]

I just give them a thumbs up.

[Anonymous No.4906863]

>>4906818
Actually, how DO you deal with problems? I sleep and go to therapy. I sleep a lot.

[Anonymous No.4906864]

>>4906855
>167 ATM
That must be an ass-to-mouth record.

[Anonymous No.4906953]

>>4906855

> I'm a girl!
> I was abused!
> He's my height and weight! Keep paying attention to me!

Jesus christ, fuck off. I'm a grill too and shitheads like you piss me off so much. Nobody cares at all.

Where I live, servers get paid minimum wage, and keep their tips on top of that. My younger sister works in a Pub/Grill/Seafood restaurant and makes so much fucking money its unbelievable. Comes home with 100 or more in her pocket every night and still picks up a normal paycheck every two weeks. I think she has a glass mason jar in her room with over 1000 in cash in it right now.

I've never paid enough attention to wait staff to notice if they ever come over and start talking to me if my mouth is full. It seems like a weird thing to get frustrated over, but whatever. If anyone starts talking to me while I'm eating I mostly just nod.

[Anonymous No.4906979]

>>4906953
pretty chill and reasonable, would read again

[Anonymous No.4906993]

>>4905710
>15% markup on all food items in order to pay waiters 5 dollars more per hour

not only is this bullshit in the most basic order, but there is also evidence that these invisible cost benefits don't actually exist when applied to a store or system without tips.

actually, in Japan, a country with horrible purchasing power relative to overall development, tipping is non-existent, service is perfect, wait staff gets between 8 and 10 USD an hour, and the cost is still around the same as a meal in the US, between 8-30 bucks for a low to mid-range restaurant.

[Anonymous No.4907014]

>>4905719
it's a lose/lose/lose for a lot of people
people receiving mediocre to average service, especially if in a group of people, are pressured into paying upwards of 15% of their meal, with no actual insurance of good service because tipping is socially mandatory rather than economically sustained

waiters lose out if they deal with bad clientele or are socially disadvantaged even if they do good work (black, male, etc)

managers lose out because wait staff has a high turnover and a system not ruled strictly by economic laws results in the difficulty of a stable service quality, which is the least manageable factor in maintaining a dedicated customer base and good reviews, a distraction from ensuring the quality of food

basically the only people who win are those who are fascinated with the control they get over their waiters, attractive female waitresses, and extremely cheap managers who can't assure quality in all standards of the restaurant. basically, the worst people.

[Anonymous No.4907022]

>>4906993
In case you've not learnt it yet, Japan is the exception to every rule because it is from a parallel universe, sent to our world only to confound us and make any rules we have that seem to apply to the whole world over not apply to Japan and the Japanese.
Ireland also lacks tipping. Service is horrid. The cost of a night out is about 50% higher in Ireland than in the US. A shot at a bar costs €12 in Dublin. That's $16.50USD. A meal at a sit-in eatery costs at least €10 and the waitstaff can't be arsed to come and check your order nor even deliver it to your table in a timely manner.
This is true also in Switzerland, in Hungary and in Ukraine, as well.
Not even American here, but I honestly believe their tipping system is superior to our horrid service and high prices.

[Anonymous No.4907040]

>>4907022
that has more to do with your country's service culture
in America, for establishments that don't have tipping, people who provide bad service will be summarily reported to their superiors and face the risk of punishment
if your workers in Ireland aren't afraid of being fired without tips, they wouldn't be afraid of being stiffed with tips. and knowing your pubs, tipping would probably lead to a lot more waiter-on-customer violence

[Anonymous No.4907052]

Holy shit did this thread turn into a tip vs. no tip debate?

Seriously, I hope everyone end up a burn victim.

[Anonymous No.4907075]

>>4907052
>Holy shit did this thread turn into a tip vs. no tip debate?

We ARE on /ck/, after all. There's a solid 10% chance of any thread turning into one of those.

[Anonymous No.4907077]

>>4907014

Nope.

Your first example is silly. Social pressure is meaningless unless you're socially inept. If you have good service, tip. If you felt the service didn't warrant it, then don't. Where is the pressure?

#2 Yeah, waiters do lose out every once in a while. But with higher wages in effect, do you think those cheapskate assholes would even eat out in the restaurant in the first place? That will simply be lost business for all involved. Besides which, if the waiter feels that being stiffed on tips happens often enough that it's a problem they are welcome to work elsewhere. Nobody is forcing them to do that job against their will.

3, I laughed my ass off at "ruled strictly by economic laws". What does that mean exactly? Yeah, wait staff has a high turnover. That's a good thing from a manager's perspective because it keeps the best employees around while the whiners are the ones who quit. Besides, have you ever had the joy of supervising someone who is either incompletent or lazy yet cannot be fired due to "strict economic laws". I have, and let me tell you that it is miserable for all involved--including you, the customer. How would you like it if you suffered bad service at my restaurant, complained to me the manager, and I said to you: "sorry, I can't help you due to the laws in place". Getting decent service quality is easy: good waitstaff get paid well--either by you the customer, or by me, the manager. Usually both. Remember, a lot of restaurant owners pay a lot more than minimum wage, and the waitstaff gets tips on top of that.

[Anonymous No.4907110]

>>4907040
Sorry if I gave the impression that I am from Ireland: I'm not. I'm from a different country, currently live in the US and went to Ireland recentlyish. My home country has okay service. It's a bit neglectful, but nothing extreme. Ireland has simply horrid service as do the other nations I listed.
I'm always amazed by how good the service here in the US is compared to back home. I do find that I prefer the neglectful style of waitservice as we have back home over the overly attentive (to the point of being a nuisance) service that some servers in American provide.

[Anonymous No.4907143]

>>4907077
>Social pressure is meaningless unless you're socially inept
Aside from the guilt everyone shoves down your throat to believe that wait staff needs your tips, which might affect you if you're generally a moral person, odds are if you're eating out, you're eating out with other people. Eating in a group? Be prepared to be outvoted. On a date? A well-meaning girl could quickly decide you're an asshole even if you're well-meaning as well. The social pressure is extremely strong because American society has standardized tips. If they hadn't, you wouldn't see these threads. Going against the grain is not easy.

>But with higher wages in effect, do you think those cheapskate assholes would even eat out in the restaurant in the first place
What are you talking about. There are restaurants in America with no-tip policies which have no trouble at all breaking even.

[Anonymous No.4907152]

>>4907077
>"ruled strictly by economic laws". What does that mean exactly?
Rather than sticking to the equilibrium of the value of one's service and the monetary amount a customer would pay for that service, there is moral incentives involved, which adhere more to social psychology than to strictly economics and thus create fat in the system.

>high turnover. That's a good thing from a manager's perspective
No it isn't. Hard-working men and minorities quit because they don't get tipped even though the customers would still be willing to return based on the quality of service. Meanwhile if you have a good few people on staff, the remainder is still a turnover of idiots which is NOT business-friendly, especially if you have to keep training those idiots and they still fuck up. There is NO benefit to styling the system such that the majority of your wait staff is permanent and happy about it.

[Anonymous No.4907158]

>>4907077
>Besides, have you ever had the joy of supervising someone who is either incompletent or lazy yet cannot be fired due to "strict economic laws"
I guess I can't say I have, because there is not yet a court for the laws of economics, just natural flows of monetary value.

I guess I shouldn't bother mocking you for the rest of your response because you seem to think the phrase "economic laws" means judicial and not scientific laws.

[Anonymous No.4907164]

>>4907075
I don't see what's so controversial about tipping other than eurofags.

Just tip based on service and expense. No, don't tip 20% on an expensive bottle of booze just for them brining it to you and opening it, but if it's a cheap diner then 25% is like three bucks for a good meal and constant coffee refills.

Just use your head morans.

[Anonymous No.4907177]

>>4907143

>guilt
Boo hoo, you got outvoted in a group? You feel you have to tip to impress your boyfriend/girlfriend? What's the problem? Roll with the punches. Besides which, you'd be paying that extra amount anyway in a tipless restaurant.

>>What are you talking about
Basic economics bro. For every product (such as a restaurant meal) there will be a bell curve representing people's ability to afford it. The largest part of the curve, the large hump in the middle, represents the average person. They can afford to eat the average meal. At the far right of the curve (as it gets smaller and smaller) are people that are richer and richer; at the very end you have the world richest people. Likewise at the left side of the curve you have people who are poorer and poorer. Any given meal fits somewhere on the graph and everyone to the right of that point can afford it. A $5 hamburger is probably pretty close to the left side of the graph, even a poor person can afford it. A $5,000 bottle of rare wine, on the other hand, is beyond the reach of all but the very rich, so even the average people in the center cannot afford it. Raising the price of a meal moves the line, as we just discussed. As you mentioned before, there are some assholes who won't tip because they don't want to spend the money. So, when you institute higher wages, price of the meal goes up, and the line moves slightly to the right of the graph. The difference in position of those two lines represents people who now cannot afford that meal once the "tip" becomes a "wage". Assholes though they may be, they are now priced out of the market and they will eat elsewhere instead. I never said that it was economically impossible to have no tipping, simply that it costs more for everyone involved. Any restaurant who eliminates tips and raises their prices accordingly shifts their line a little to the right on the bell curve, and thereby eliminates a slice of their potential market.

[Anonymous No.4907182]

>>4907177

...contiunued.
so, yeah, those people who cannot afford to tip will simply not be able to afford the meal at all when the price goes up accordingly and must go somewhere else. Yes, those people might be assholes, but a non-tipping customer is better for the restaurant than no customer at all.

Of course there do exist non-tipping restaurants, but that's not exactly the norm. They tend to be more expensive restaurants whose very appeal is the lack of tips. Such an appeal wouldn't exist unless it were novel. It's a fad, like hipsters consuming "unpopular" foods *because* they're unpopular.

[Anonymous No.4907191]

>>4905043
>getting mad at customers and not their boss so they can avoid conflict
What a true definition of a pussy

[Anonymous No.4907196]

>>4907177
>>4907182
the economics of the situation are irrelevant because, as I explained earlier, tipping is a system not governed hard by economic laws but reliant heavily on moral incentive. many people don't go to restaurants when they perceive they could afford a 15 dollar meal but not a 20 dollar one because they feel that if they didn't leave a tip they'd be as bad as thieves, which is trained into their mind by the constant parroting of "if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out." In actuality, the difference they would be paying in a no-tip system is far less than the amount they anticipate tipping. An adjustment of 5% per item would more than amply provide minimum wage for the wait staff, what happens with the moral system is that waiters are striving to make 10-15 dollars an hour and tippers have to strive to make up for non-tippers.

[Anonymous No.4907201]

btw http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/08/tipless_restaurants_the_linkery_s_owner_explains_why_abolishing_tipping.html

can people please read this before running into a tipping thread and saying unfounded bullshit. the system works, you just have to be willing to let it.

[Anonymous No.4907204]

>>4907191

Stupid, too. If they make "zero money after taxes" and still have to "pay for customers", why are they still working there? I would assume a graduate student would be smart enough to realize that it's stupid to work yet make no money.

that means one of two things:

1) they're just bitching at the odd stiff, but as a whole they really do make money
or
2) they're a first-class idiot who expects things to be handed to them in a silver platter; most likely a liberal arts major who made the dubious decision to go into debt to pursue a useless degree.

Education is like any other investment--it needs to pay off. Working your balls off for little pay working towards a degree you cannot afford is just as stupid as buying an expensive luxury car while working part-time at mickey D's. Besides, graduate school really ought to pay YOU to go; either as an RA or a TA. No RA/TA positions available? That's a big red flag that you're in a dead field and you're going to graduate with a useless degree and a mountain of debt.

[Anonymous No.4907223]

>>4907196
>the economics of the situation are irrelevan

Economics are always relevant; it's like a law of physics. It might not affect everyone, but it affects SOME, and that's enough. Price goes up, fewer people buy.

>> An adjustment of 5% per item would more than amply provide minimum wage...

Again your lack of economics is showing itself. Unless we're talking about paying minimum wage in a very expensive restaurant, it would be much more than that.

In the USA we all pay taxes (well, anyone with a job does). You know those deductions on your paycheck for medicare, social security, etc? Well, you may not know this but that's only half the taxes that are paid. Your employer pays the other half directly to the IRS which you never see on your paycheck. They also pay additional local employment taxes. So let's do a little math now. Let's assume we're talking a low tax bracket of around 30%. If I am your boss and I write you a $100 paycheck, then you only take home $70, because 30% went to taxes. What you don't know is that I paid ANOTHER $30 directly to the IRS that wasn't even on your pay stub, so for you to take home $70 after-taxes it cost the restaurant $130. The cost to the restaurant is not including the local taxes I have to pay, such as unemployment tax, and others which vary depending on the locale. Many municipalities charge restaurant and hotel operators extra taxes, but let's ignore those for right now.

On the other hand, if I am a customer and I want you, the waiter, to have $5, I can simply give you $5 as a tip. Done. But if the same $5 in your pocket but it goes through the restaurant as wages instead, it costs--in our example of a 30% bracket--$9.28 instead. That extra is going on your meal, and in actuality it will be worse because now the restaurant has extra bookkeeping to do, so they now have to have more money paid to accounting, as well as the additional local, city, and state taxes to deal with which I ignored here.

[Anonymous No.4907225]

>>4907201

that's not tipless, it's a mandatory "18 % service charge". It's just a tip by another name.

[Anonymous No.4907232]

>>4907204

*Stands*

*Slow. Fucking. Clap.*

[Anonymous No.4907340]

>>4907223
I doubt that's how it works. Tips tend to go through receipts and are paid by credit card more often than not these days, so I doubt that those which aren't paid by cash just get ignored by the government, especially when taxes are adjusted to the expectation of tips. And if they do go under the radar, that's one more reason to abolish the system, because it contributes to tax fraud/inequality. And even considering that, it's still not less affordable to adjust prices by 5%, pay everyone minimum wage, and break even. Your point does not show.

[Anonymous No.4907369]

>>4907340

If you "doubt how that works" then you clearly lack even the most fundamental understanding of how payroll taxes work in the USA. Go study up on it, then we'll talk.

As for tax fraud, technically, you're right: waitstaff are supposed to report tips. There's a line for it on your 1040 form, and under-reporting tips is illegal. However:
1) it's VERY widespread, almost the norm in the restaurant industry.

2) while it may be against the law, I have no problem with under-reporting of payroll taxes.
The government has clearly demonstrated that it cannot be trusted to operate a balanced budget or spend money properly without waste, so why would anyone want to give them more money than absolutely necessary?

The average American pays anywhere from a third to nearly half of their money in various forms of taxes to the Federal government Even if you only make $30,000 a year, nearly $10,000 of that goes to the Fed. What do you get for that in return? Pretty much nothing, to be honest. The few things I can think of are Pell grants, if you're one of the lucky few to get them, or perhaps you were the victim of a major crime and you were assisted by a federal agency such as the FBI. The last one I can think of is merchant shipping which benefits from the presence of the US Navy patrolling shipping lanes--but that's probably not you.

Now you're probably going to ask, what about police? Nope, that's local or state, unless we're talking FBI. Fire department? Nope, that's local too. Roads? Local and state. Federal highways? That comes from gasoline taxes. Post office? Oh wait, you have to pay for that service, and it's losing money like mad. National parks? You have to pay an "entrance fee" for those. FDA inspection of food? Nope, the companies who produce food which requires FDA inspection, such as a slaughterhouse or any company making pre-packaged food is required to pay for the inspectors. They get more than enough money as it is.

[Anonymous No.4907372]

>>4907369
I don't care about the politics of big government, I'm talking about work politics. If the rest of us have to pay payroll taxes, so should restaurants, and I don't see any reason why I should have to pay both federal employment taxes AND tips to make up for the fraud evasion of restaurant managers who allow for their white females to receive 15-20 an hour for a minimum wage task

fuck you

[Anonymous No.4907394]

>>4907372

Uhm, I think you misunderstood. The whole point is that it's cheaper for you to pay a tip than it is for the waiter to make that same money via a higher wage and then have that cost passed onto you through the cost of the food, assuming that the waiter makes the same amount of money either way.

I'm trying to explain that the tip system actually saves YOU, the customer, money because tips are taxed less than wages are. Even if the waiter/waitress declares 100% of their taxed income they only pay their normal federal taxes on it, there is no Employer's contribution to Social Security, etc. It's cheaper for all involved.

[Anonymous No.4907398]

>>4907369
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.
I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. Then, I brushed my teeth with that water, filtered to standards set by the EPA and my state.
After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.
At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation and drop the kids off at the public school.
I park my car on the street, paved and maintained by the Department of Transportation.
Then, after spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I drive back to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection.
I then log onto the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right and how they're stealing from me by taxing me and I get nothing in return.

[Anonymous No.4907402]

>>4907394
How does everyone paying an additional 20% on the menu price mean the food is cheaper than if the employer paid decent wages?

[Anonymous No.4907416]

>>4907398

I'm guessing that's probably some kind of copypasta but you do realize that:

1) every one of those things you mentioned are actually paid for by state and local taxes, and the industries involved, right?

and

2) Just because the government happens to do some of them doesn't mean that is the only alternative.

For example, there would be MORE TV without FCC regulation.
The roads you drove on were paid for by your local and state taxes, plus the taxes on the fuel you bought--not your Federal taxes.
Your food that was inspected by the FDA? That cost was built into the price you paid for your food. FDA inspection is not free, food producers pay for it.
Your internet--that's not free, you pay your ISP right?
NIST? They do some great stuff. And charge you for it. Want a copy of a standard? You have to pay for it.

Not a single thing on that list is paid for by your federal taxes. On the other hand, a bunch of useless wars? Yeah, that is.

[Anonymous No.4907421]

>>4907416
>live in America, home of subsidized cheap food, gasoline, and everything else
>complain about taxes

lol

[Anonymous No.4907429]

>>4907402

Because if you tip the waitstaff directly, the money is probably never taxed, but even if the waiter is perfectly honest and declares 100% of it on their 1040, it's only taxed once, at whatever the employee's normal federal tax rate is.

On the other hand, if that same amount of money is paid as a wage, it's taxed at least twice: the employer's side of federal taxes, plus the employee's taxes. And depending on where the restaurant is located, it might even be taxed more than that depending on the local/county/state taxes.

Therefore, if the same amount of money is paid to the waiter after taxes, it's cheaper to use the tip system than wages because tips have about half the taxes (worst case), or none of the taxes (if the waiter doesn't report their tips).

[Anonymous No.4907433]

>>4907421

I complain about subsidies too. They make even less sense than the taxes do.

[Anonymous No.4907435]

>>4907429
People cheating their income taxes does not save society money on the whole.

I would rather pay more for food than have these self-entitled faggots cheat their taxes.

Keep justifying the tipping system when it all boils down to an artificial social obligation and, in the end, a fear of someone contaminating your food if you don't give them enough charity.

[Anonymous No.4907438]

>>4907433
>I complain about subsidies too.
You saved more in food, gas, etc. costs than you spent on taxes that went to the subsidies.

[Anonymous No.4907440]

>>4907435

You seem to be ignoring the part about "even if they declare 100% of their tips".

Tip system: Money is taxed once only, when the employee files their 1040.

Wage system: Money is taxed at least twice, once by the employer's side of federal tax contributions, again by the employee on their 1040. There is also the possibility of additional local, county, and state taxes paid by the employer but that varies depending on locale--it could be zero, it could be significant.

That's going 100% by the letter of the law

[Anonymous No.4907444]

>>4907429
the system of regulation is in place to ensure some degree of equality on both ends. I would rather there be a federal fat cut that pushes the price up a little bit than to be expected to pay a minimum of 15% of my bill to make up for the 5% that most people aren't paying towards the pool which allows white women to make upwards of 15-20 an hour. is it really impossible for a restaurant to produce an extra 5 dollars an hour per waiter with an increased direct profit margin of 3.5%? How about 7%? Would 10.5 to 14 percent be necessary?

[Anonymous No.4907447]

>>4907444
The tipping system only helps the attractive white women and business owners. That's it.

[Anonymous No.4907448]

>>4907438

That's mathematically impossible. If we get more than we spend, as a nation, that means that we must be magically printing money....oh wait, we do that. Seriously though, if we "save more" than we spent, why don't we subsidize everything! Make everything free! Where is that money going to come from? Subsidies are simply a trade-off where some things are artificially more expensive in order to make other things artificially cheaper: Tax everything, but subsidize corn, for example. Corn is cheaper, everything else costs more. In the end it's a wash, except of course for the fact that we pay bureaucrats to manage the subsidy.

I would be perfectly fine with ending all subsidies and paying the true cost of whatever resources I might need to use.

[Anonymous No.4907456]

>>4907448
>what is a deficit
>what is the fiat system

>I would be perfectly fine with ending all subsidies and paying the true cost of whatever resources I might need to use.
I seriously doubt this.

[Anonymous No.4907466]

>>4907444

It will ALWAYS be cheaper to tip the employee rather than pay the same amount of money through higher wages, unless there is some sort of major reformatting of how taxes work in this country--I support such a tax reform, but I'm not holding my breath that it's going to happen anytime soon. Until then, its it's basic math: it's cheaper for all involved to tip than it is to pay the same $$ via wages.

>>to be expected to pay a minimum of 15% of my bill to make up for the 5% that most people aren't paying towards the pool

Sounds like welfare to me. I agree, it sucks.

[Anonymous No.4907471]

>>4907447
And attractive Mexican owners.

Black chicks are fucked though.

[Anonymous No.4907475]

>>4907456
>what is a deficit
>what is the fiat system
*really bad ideas*

>>I seriously doubt this

Why? I've clearly stated it twice so far. Do I have to state it again? Subsidies have huge numbers of unintended consequences.

For example, corn subsidies are one of the major reasons why there is so much HFCS used in American food. You don't see Coca-Cola (et. al.) using corn syrup elsewhere in the world. That subsidy might have meant well for the American Corn Farmer, but it fucked the health of the nation, not to mention fucking over the American sugar industry. Good intentions? Sure. Did it do good? Nope. The number one recipient of Federal tax subsidies is the financial sector, with about 20% of the total. I don't know about you, but I don't think that Wall Street Bankers need any more tax breaks. Do you?

[Anonymous No.4907477]

>>4907466
no, it will ALWAYS be cheaper if every customer pays the same percentage into a collective pool that is divvied equally by the wait staff. since we don't live in some fantasy world, we must sacrifice efficiency for equality, and in the end we customers benefit from it because our service becomes uniform in quality and we never have to pay more than 5 or 10% above base prices. There is literally no advantage even after taking your tax rate sorcery into account

[Anonymous No.4907499]

>>4907477

>>no, it will ALWAYS be cheaper if every customer pays the same percentage into a collective pool that is divvied equally by the wait staff

Depends on what you're saying. If your "pool" is tips, then you're correct. If you mean wages, then you need to go do some basic math again. Taxing twice costs more than taxing once. How hard is that to understand?

>> our service becomes uniform in quality

Speaking of "sorcery" how on earth can you guarantee uniform service quality, other than firing everyone and having robots as waiters? How can you magically make all waiters/waitresses provide equal service?

>>There is literally no advantage
I'm not sure what else to say other than the fact that you cannot seem to do basic math.

[Anonymous No.4909105]

>>4907499
>If your "pool" is tips, then you're correct
yes I am. that's the point, these pools are ideal but don't exist

>How can you magically make all waiters/waitresses provide equal service?
By paying them all the same amount and holding them to the same standard. Then they understand they will get paid fairly if they do their job right and fired if they don't, and there are no hitches. Wait staff need only do one thing, and that's make sure the tables have what they want to eat and drink when they want to have it, and tips distract from their role.

>I'm not sure what else to say other than the fact that you cannot seem to do basic math.
I say the same to you. What is a uniform increase in prices of 5-10% versus the expectation you MUST pay 15-20% extra if you want to be a return customer?

[Anonymous No.4910061]

>>4904991

I recently learned somebody was making a comic strip of me and posting it on Facebook.

jbwefwBKJ

[Anonymous No.4910167]

>>4905043
>America land of the free
>Effectively doesn't pay its workers.

Hahahahahahha have fun with clap's