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/ck/ - Food & Cooking

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4599218 No.4599218 [Reply] [Original]

/ck/ seems to have some level of respect for vegetarians and vegetarianism so I'm gonna ask this here- Why are vegetarians so hated?

I'm not talking about vegans and vegoes that rub it in your face and never cease complaining. I'm talking about people who don't eat meat.

Every time it is mentioned it's greeted with the standard "Y U HAV CANINE TEETH, OTHA ANIMALS EAT MEAT" and so forth. Every other lifestyle or creed is generally accepted on the internet (unless it is harmful) other than vegetarianism.

Why?

(I'm not a vegetarian, I'd like to be but I like meat too much)

>> No.4599229

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5vSia_tLeI

>> No.4599236

>>4599229

I specifically mentioned that hatred of people who shove it down your throat is understandable.

>> No.4599245

My theory is that by following a diet/lifestyle that is contrary to the people of this board, you're in a way offending them because it's like saying "I think your way of life is wrong so I'm living this other way instead," and some people see that at face value and get mad that you would imply their way of life isn't good enough for you, and others would dig deeper and start questioning their own diets and feeling insecure, and those are the guys you see whose arguments don't really make sense and usually end up as "FUCK YOU, I LIKE EATING BACON" when you argue with them enough

Basically people like to think what they think and they don't like when other people introduce an idea that goes against what they already think

>> No.4599298

>vegans and vegoes that rub it in your face and never cease complaining
That's exactly what we have. Threads about plant foods go well, unless someone makes the grievous error of declaring how much they love being vegetarian. Threads about non-plant foods attract shitposting vegans and vegetarians going, "ugh you guys that's disgusting srsly 2013 shiggy diggy."

Threads about the lifestyle of vegetarianism and its offshoots, particularly concerning the purported moral, ethical, health, and environmental benefits are in no way welcome, as they have nothing to do with this board.

>Every other lifestyle or creed is generally accepted on the internet
Exactly which corner of the internet do you think you're on? Is this some shitty pasta?

Anyway this thread will quite certainly become a gangbang of butthurt, so I'll just post this and hide the thread.

>> No.4599302

>>4599245
I've been vegetarian. I've also come to the conclusion that it's patently ridiculous.

>> No.4599324

Because the reasons for going vegetarian are because you are weak minded. Either the reasoning is that Animals should not be eaten or that a vegetarian diet is healthier than a balanced diet including lean meat, dairy, eggs, and fattier cuts sparingly.

Vegetarianism is a disorder.

>> No.4599333

Fucking shitposting troll threads. I'm sick to death of them.

>> No.4599343

>>4599302

Vegetarianism I agree is ridiculous. Veganism though, I strongly believe is the healthiest human diet. Throw in a piece of chicken once a month if you want, but plant foods I feel are meant to be the vast majority of our food intake

>> No.4599418

>>4599343
That was me, and I think veganism is even more ridiculous. As in, absolute, balls-to-the-walls, jews-in-the-oven gibbering madness.

>> No.4599434

They're hated bcuz they're different

>> No.4599450

>>4599418

Why so?

>> No.4599535

>>4599418
Go to a slaughterhouse. Then go to a strawberry harvest. We're the batshit crazy ones when you think about it, dude.

>> No.4599556

>>4599535
...I'm not following. Did you have a point to make? Is it something about oh-god-blood-and-suffering vs. strawberry-fields-forever-oh-how-twee?

>> No.4599558

>>4599556
That when you think about meat production, it's way more extremist than veganism. We've just normalized it in our society. I have a couple vegetarian and vegan friends, and really respect them. It's not for me, but I tip my hat to them like I do to my environmentalist and humanitarian friends. They do the shit I'm too lazy to.

>> No.4599563

>>4599558
>it's way more extremist than veganism
if you ignore that the harvesting of produce kills several times more animals than the meat industry does.
If you care about animals you will eat meat, one cow feeds many people, your salad was harvested at the expense of an entire family of rabbits that were poisoned or run over by machinery

what is more ethical to you? eating one lobster or eating lettuce but killing the hundreds of lady bugs that were sitting on it?

>> No.4599565

>>4599563
Except that it takes 10+lbs of grain to produce a single lb of steak. Even when you take into account insects and small animals, meat production kills far more animals per calorie. Here's the statistics.

http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc

>> No.4599569

>>4599565
>10+lbs of grain to produce a single lb of steak
grain that humans can not eat, thats like complaining how much grass it takes.
it is not an energy loss it is an energy conversion you uninformed cunt.
LOOK HOW MUCH HAY WE ARE WASTING ON THAT HORSE TO MAKE THE MEAT!!!

>> No.4599573

>>4599565
>meat production kills far more animals per calorie
and also wrong by the way, I love how you don't consider insects to be animals though because it doesn't suit your argument

>> No.4599574
File: 234 KB, 711x948, meatenergy1big.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4599574

>>4599569
What are you talking about? I said nothing about waste. You're saying that animals are killed during harvesting. Insects and rabbits live in the grain fields that are used to feed livestock, so eating a lb of beef is killing 10x more animals through harvest than eating a lb of grain directly.

But even if some of the grain we feed to livestock cannot be fed to humans, all that agricultural land CAN be used for human food. Instead we waste it on fattening up animals. Two thirds of all agricultural land is used for meat production currently, and that is a colossal waste. Stanford did a good report on the issue.

http://woods.stanford.edu/environmental-venture-projects/consequences-increased-global-meat-consumption-global-environment

>> No.4599578

>>4599573
Animals killed during harvesting are discussed in the article. There exists no data for number of insects killed in harvest. However, if you're eating a lb of beef that required 10 lbs of grain to produce, then you logically killed 10 times as many insects through harvesting.

You could make the argument for a fish you catch, that killing that 1 fish is better than a meal that killed 30 insects. But the fact of it hinges on intention. You are deliberately killing the fish, whereas a vegan is not deliberately killing insects. We all accidentally kill insects throughout our lives, walking on grass, etc. Big difference between walking outside with a magnifying glass and intentionally lighting them on fire.

>> No.4599580

>>4599574
well you are too stupid to understand the difference between weight and volume so I don't even know where I would start with you.
you are also dumb enough to believe in global warming so there is no point dealing with you further either.
and by the way THIS is why nobody likes vegetarians, because you have your "facts" all locked in the chamber ready to try and convert people to your mental illness.

I know I have beaten you in this debate at least half a dozen times so I am not going to bother again. I actually wish you would get yourself a trip so I could filter your nonsense.

>> No.4599581

>>4599578
>10 lbs of grain to produce, then you logically killed 10 times as many insects through harvesting.
weight=/=volume retard

your 10 pounds of lettuce took up more space than my 10 pounds of grain

>> No.4599590

>>4599218
The problem with vegetarians is that they either base their decision to not eat meat on naturalistic ideals, misplaced ethical ideas, or skewed science. I've seen no reason to be vegan or vegetarian that was sound.

>> No.4599593

>>4599218
>Every other lifestyle or creed is generally accepted on the internet

No way dude. People on different sides of ethical/religious issues are always arguing, and supporters of fringe positions (e.g. supported by 10% or less of the population) get curb-stomped in online forums. Atheists are ridiculed just like Baptists who believe people hunted dinosaurs 5000 years ago...it's not the belief itself that matters, it's just the number of proponents/opponents. Stereotypes are then be used to bolster the bullying...Baptists are idiots, atheists are sad, vegetarians are self righteous, vegans are preachy.

>> No.4599601

>>4599593
>Baptists are idiots, atheists are sad, vegetarians are self righteous, vegans are preachy
all of which are in general true

I have met dozens of all those people, most fall into those categories
in my life I have met 2 vegetarians that weren't douchebags about it and have never actually met an atheist that was particularly happy in general

>> No.4599603

>>4599578
>it's okay bambi, I didn't mean to run you over with a combine harvester, so I know you won't mind

Being alive means others must die. The difference between a vegan/vegetarian diet and an omnivorous diet is merely a difference in degree, not a difference in type.

>> No.4599609

>>4599298
>gangbang of butthurt
pretty much every troll thread on 4chan ever

>> No.4599648

>>4599601
Aye, and the islam suicide faggots are totally happy (or the people burned by christians).

That's a cognitive schema based on no evidence ("I didn't see a lion in rl, therefore they don't exist"). Save your mind, don't be stupid.

>> No.4599758

>>4599343
Yeah you strongly believe but have no proof. It MIGHT! be better for you maybe not someone else though.

>> No.4599765

>>4599333
>2013
>Still putting sage in every field

>> No.4599839

>>4599218
Vegetarianism isn't hated, the anti-meat opinion that only vegetarians and vegans hold is

>> No.4599840

>>4599590
De facto vegetarian here. Been a proud meat-eater for the last twenty years or so. Last December, for whatever reason, my sense of taste committed seppuku and I lost all desire to eat meat. It just doesn't taste good anymore.

Fuck biology, man.

>>4599601

Happy atheist here. :3 I'm also one of the peaceful sorts that doesn't give a shit about religion.

>> No.4599846

Everytime i see a vegan thread on /ck/ i make a meatloaf sandwich and eat it. Im actually rather stuffed, but that will teach those dirty hippies.

>> No.4599851

>>4599590
lol what
take a stroll through a livestock farm, yes that includes 'free range' farms, or a slaughterhouse and come back tell us about 'misplaced ethics'

>all this cognitive dissonance
>all this rationalization

the funniest part of this is you probably have a pet of your own.

i limit my meat consumption cause I can't stomach what the animals go through, not because of logic or moral code or any of the grandoise ideas you mentioned. pretty simple stuff. hunting is fine with me. farming isn't. for me.

>> No.4599871

I have no problem with vegetarians (other than the in-your-face ones), I just find the concept of vegetarianism being better than omnivorism to be absolute horseshit.

>> No.4599878

>>4599871
such a shame then that scientific literature suggests that a predominantly vegetable-based diet is healthier than a heavily (consumed every day) meat-based one. do a search for 'red meat' on pubmed or similar databases. u mad

>> No.4599884

>>4599878
>implying I eat red meat every day
>implying opinions
>implying implications

Keep up the good work sonny.

>> No.4599889

ok idealisms are generally loads of shit, but i have to say the arguments against vegetarianism i see people post on 4chan always entail something like 'animals are not human beings therefore they do not experience anything' which is just as retarded as vegans insisting that 'animals are living beings therefore all forms of exploitation are detrimental to their existence'

have any of you had a pet dog? if you reckon they have no comprehension or drive for anything other than getting fed and fucking other dogs i feel sorry for you

>> No.4599891

>>4599884
>implying I eat red meat every day

fine, but most of those studies linking red meat consumption to various cancers and heart disease mention something like 3 times a week

>> No.4599901

>>4599603
>killing things that live to die is morally equivalent to killing things that live to live

>> No.4599903

>>4599878
>predominantly
that word doesn't mean pure veg, it means meat shouldn't be your primary sustenance

>> No.4599904

>>4599889
There's a reason people used 'bird brain' as an insult and not 'dog brain'.

>> No.4599909

>>4599904
fun fact: pigs make excellent pets and are more intelligent than canines.

>> No.4599913

>>4599889
>'animals are not human beings therefore they do not experience anything'

yeah this is kinda stupid too.

>> No.4599941

>>4599909
fun fact: dogs are delicious.

>> No.4601115

>>4599941
I'm sure they are.

>> No.4601120

>>4599904
Some birds are crazy smart. Crows = craftiest mothafuckas in the animal kingdom.

>> No.4601121 [DELETED] 

I've said it once, I'll say it again: vegetarians are decent people. Vegans are not.

>> No.4601122

>>4599941
I would assume it depends on the type of dog

>> No.4601129

Insecurity and distrust of the "other."

>> No.4601136

>>4601121
why do you say that? if anything, vegetarianism is half-assed.

let me guess, you're an omnivore and veganism is too 'extreme' or 'radical' in your view

>> No.4601140

>>4601136
>Doesn't cook with milk
>OMG A WITCH, BURN HIM!
This describes some people I've known.

>> No.4601142

>>4601120
Even an afghan or a dalmatian can compete with a crow.

>> No.4601145

>>4601136
>can't handle meat because shitty piping
>LOL UR A PRETEND VEGAN! GO BE IGNORANT SOMEWHERE ELSE
at least the omnivores stop probing once they realise it's not a choice that I can't eat meat.
At least I'm not celiac.

>> No.4601146

>>4601145
Count yourself lucky. I wish I couldn't eat meat. I know I should eat less, but fuck it I give in to temptation.

>> No.4601160

>>4601140
>>4601145

samefag, but ok.
where was the argument against vegans, i guess i missed it, all i saw was two anecdotes that never happened

>> No.4601268

>>4599590
I am vegetarian because the stuff I like to put in my face is predominantly not-animals.

It wasn't some flip of a switch where I was just like "man, meats fucked up, im out". I just started eating shit that wasn't what my parents fed me growing up and realized I don't really like meat.

>> No.4601292

>>4599851

>the funniest part of this is you >probably have a pet of your >own.

Y'kno, pet owners live longer. In emergencies they have a backup food source.

>> No.4601340
File: 101 KB, 700x486, vegetarian.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4601340

>> No.4601464

Because vegetarians fucking suck ass

>> No.4601489

>>4601340
I sure am glad that correlation means causation. It makes everything so simple and easy to understand.

>> No.4601549

>>4601489
>It's just a coincidence that meat eaters die sooner and have far higher rates of disease even when looking at study sizes of nearly two hundred thousand people.

>> No.4601581

>>4601340
maybe I want to die faster

>> No.4601586

>>4601549
Yeah, that's not what he's saying at all.

>> No.4601591

>>4601581
I feel ya. You, me, Heartattack Cafe in Vegas. Let's do it.

>> No.4601601

>>4601549
Yes it can only be assumed to be a coincidence until several peer-reviewed studies actually show that when all lifestyle choices, genetic factors, epigentic factors, living conditions,socioeconomic status, and styles of diet balancing are equal that meat eaters die sooner.

>> No.4601606

>>4601601
Meta-analysis of studies on comparing vegetarians with meat eaters all show that meat eaters die sooner and have much higher incidents of disease. The sample sizes are far too large and diverse to try and attribute to lifestyle choices, socioeconomic status, or genetics. When you have sample sizes in the hundreds of thousands, you have every genetic, lifestyle, and socioeconomic group imaginable accounted for.

Meat is bad for us, let's just face the truth. The last generations were able to deal with smoking being bad, even though it's far more addicting than meat.

>> No.4601618

>>4601606
oh, you don't understand how statistics work? That's cool, there's open courseware all over the place to help you.

Might also want to read about research methodology while you're at it.

>> No.4601621

>>4601618
>Doesn't like to admit meat is bad, so just tries to reject all the studies done without even offering constructive criticism.

>> No.4601627

>>4601621
I gave you constructive criticism. You have absolutely no clue how either statistics or research methodology works. You have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding in this thread. You need to read up on this stuff.

>> No.4601631

>>4599218
I don't hate vegetarians, just the troll threads that gets spammed here.

>> No.4601635

>>4601606
I'd like to see the citations for these meta-analyses.
Furthermore, I'd like to see where these analyses originated.
I'd also like to know the studies that these analyses cited, and the control groups and variables that they accounted for.

>> No.4601638

>>4601635
http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/337301

Pretty much every week you will see a new study in the news about how meat is killing us.

>> No.4601640

>>4601627
>Just read up on stuff, you dunno how it is
Nice job avoiding explaining, since then it'd be evident you have no idea what you're talking about. Go read about how epistemological studies work, kiddo.

>> No.4602438

>>4601640
Or, maybe I don't have any reason to teach you q-meth and r-meth on an image board, especially since you seem to have no clue that correlation and causation are two different things.

>> No.4602575

In my humble opinion, I think it's the same reason some people hate gays, feminists and religious/nonreligious people. All you see are a few bad apples, and before you know it you're judging the person regardless of how extremely they take their beliefs.

Goodnight!

>> No.4603179

>>4602575
Not so much. The thing is, veganism is an extreme position. Not only that, it is an evangelical position. Homosexuals aren't actually out there trying to convert all heterosexuals to homosexuality while trying to get heterosexuality banned.

>> No.4603269

>>4601268
That's a terrible opinion, but okay.

>>4601340
[citation needed]

>>4601606
>How could there be any confounding variables when comparing the practices health-conscious individuals to that of the general population?

Example:
http://www.pnas.org/content/79/19/6023.short
Study of health-conscious non-vegetarians.
>Significantly below-average in total mortality, and cardiovascular diseases.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2011469/

>Comparison of similarly health-conscious vegetarian, non-vegetarian, and formerly vegetarian women revealed no problem with the non-vegetarians, vitamin deficiencies in the vegetarians.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2000.10718078#.UdB3OJyIlZg

>Vegetarians experienced more violent deaths than expected
Something I found amusing.

tl;dr - Vegetarians experience less cardiovascular disease and total mortality, just like everyone else who watches what they eat. They also tend to be deficient in certain nutrients, though that can be taken care of with a supplement, and can experience violence if they're assholes.

inb4
>They're not health-conscious
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1479-5868-2-4.pdf

>> No.4603346

>>4603269

The funny thing about that is, "health conscious non-vegetarians" are people who limit their meat consumption. They still eat meat, but not nearly as much as "non-health conscious" people, so their results are better. It just makes it seem even less healthy when you look at it that way. You never see a doctor say "you ought to limit your vegetable intake"

>> No.4603377

>>4603346
unless that vegetable is corn or wheat

>> No.4603382

>>4603377

I've never heard that either

>> No.4603387

>>4603382
So you've never heard of ciliac disease?

>> No.4603394

>>4603387

That's a bit of an outlier, bro. People being allergic to gluten doesn't mean anything about the actual crop, and those people have to avoid it altogether, not "limit it." When a doctor tells someone to limit their dairy, it isn't because of lactose intolerance

>> No.4603415

>>4599574

Good posting anon. You're getting screamed at by someone who isn't reading or understanding your post, and is just trying to win 'biggest sagefag' award, so I wanted to tell you A+. Thanks for keeping a level head and discussing this. You made some good points.


I'm not a vegetarian for the same as someone upthread, too lazy. But I do respect those who do it and I think eating less meat in general is a good thing. Meatless monday and cutting back in general, avoiding factory farmed meat and trying to buy locally are all steps in the right direction that I hope everyone in America makes an effort to make; if they're able. I don't think humans should be herbivores but I do think we eat way too much meat, and it's unhealthy to eat so much of it. And bad for the environment as evidenced by multiple scientific studies. Facts are facts and people who deny them are idiots. Say you don't care or that you do but you're too lazy to change your ways, but don't deny the facts.

>> No.4603423

>>4603269

So wait, vegetarianism is wrong even when the person just does it because they don't care for meat?


Why do you care why someone else does it? If someone says they do it because they don't like animals being slaughtered and raised in shit conditions, why do you care? Does it make you guilty for not being as goodly as them, so you have to insult them and 'disprove' their ethical choice in order to make yourself feel better?

>> No.4603440

>>4603394
just proving you are a liar, nothing more.

>> No.4603464

>>4603440

Well seeing as your proof has been debunked, it'll take some more effort

>> No.4603470

>>4603440

wh..what..

that's like saying penicillin is bad for you because some people are allergic...

>> No.4603476

>>4603423
No, that's not what I said.
I disagree with your opinion, but it's a valid reason to be vegetarian.
See >>4599590 for why other reasons are dumb.

>>4599851
>It looks unappealing to me so I assume animals dislike it
>If you've seen a farm you'd know what I mean
I come from upstate New York, and the closest things to neighbors we had were farmers. That has nothing to do with the fact that you're more bothered by the treatment of livestock than the livestock are.

>>4603346
They also probably limit their calorie intake and make sure that their sources of calories include enough variety to give them everything they need from their food, in addition to possibly engaging in some useless health fads.

>> No.4604974

>>4601601
so according to your logic essentially all population studies are null & invalid

wow u r a genius :+)

sayge in all fields.

>> No.4604980

>you're more bothered by the treatment of livestock than the livestock are.

this is what some people actually believe

god help us

>> No.4605058
File: 52 KB, 500x536, phone 7051.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4605058

>I HERD U DONT EAT MEAT OMG WOW THATS DUMB I LOVE BACON LOL
>Hey, that's cool. Smells good man.
>LOL FGT ARE YOU SURE YOU DON'T WANT SOME OF THIS
>No, I'm okay.
>ARE YOU SURE DO YOU WANT SOME FRENCH FRIES OR SOMETHING FUCK THIS MUST BE SO DIFFICULT FOR YOU I THINK ID KILL MYSELF
>I ate before I came here. I'm not hungry.
>WOW U THINK U 2GUD 4ME
etc

Vegfags that don't know I'm a vegfag myself and think if you are tall and have some muscle, that you must be slaughtering baby seals in your backyard for gainz piss me off more though. I don't even like to hear them when they do it to other people. It's just annoying. Who seriously goes around and tells people what they should enjoy?

brotip meatfags, its just as annoying when you do that shit to us

>> No.4605286

Fanatical vegans who change a diet into a crusade.
A vocal and visible minority giving a bad name to the majority.

>> No.4607088

>>4605058
this.

you could compare it to the religious/athiest thing
both just as inane and annoying as the other

just shut the fuck about it

>OMG HOW DO U GET YR PROTEIN

why do you care now