/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.4597219]

I come to ask your opinions, /ck/.

My girlfriend is looking to get a decent set of knives for her new house. Now, I'm the one who does most of the cooking, and the only one who knows what each knife is meant to be used for. That said, I'd like to teach her. Anyway, this leads me to two questions.

1. I told her the most important knife to have in the kitchen is a chef's knife. Should she get an individual chef's knife or is one in a set adequate?

2. Care to recommend a brand for a set of knives? Preferably something I can find in the US and maybe around $250. I'm not looking for top of the line, just something adequate.

Let's hear some opinions, /ck/, I know next to nothing about knives other than their use.

[Anonymous No.4597225]

I have

1 serrated knife
1 ceramic knife
1 all-purpose knife

Does everything you'll ever want to do and costs maybe 50 bux.

[Anonymous No.4597229]

>>4597225

She also needs knives for the table.

[Anonymous No.4597249]

>>4597225
>all purpose knife
you mean a chef knife?
>ceramic knife
you mean a toy?

[Anonymous No.4597276]

>>4597249
>being too pleb to use a ceramic knife effectively

Aren't you busy putting some extra ketchup on your steak?

[Anonymous No.4597285]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_knife
>The resultant blade is sharpened by grinding the edges with a diamond-dust-coated grinding wheel. Zirconia ranks 8.5 on the Mohs scale of mineral hardness, compared to 7.5 to 8 for hardened steel, and 10 for diamond. This very hard edge rarely needs sharpening.

Seems like a useful toy anon.

[Anonymous No.4597296]

>>4597276
>never needs sharpening
don't you have some family that needs some cutco peddling?

[Anonymous No.4597298]

The problem with buying a set is that you end up wasting some of that money on knives you don't really need. There's nothing wrong with the Chef's knives that come in a set, but the issue is that you're spending extra money for knives you don't need compared to buying the chef's knife alone. Or, if you're OK with paying set prices then you could instead get a better chef's knife.

Here's my advice for beginner/basic cooks. Buy the following:

1 chef's knife, as large as you (or your girlfriend) can comfortably use. This is will be used for 90% of your cooking. A forscher is a great starting knife, maybe $30 on Amazon. If you want to go up from there look at MAC, Shun, Global, Henckels, Wusthof, etc.

1 serrated (aka bread) knife. An offset handle is a plus. Get an F. Dick or Forschner from Amazon; cost about $20.

1 sharpening steel

...and since you need knives for the table then get a set of inexpensive steak knives.

[Anonymous No.4597301]

>>4597285
>Seems like a useful toy anon.

Except for the fact the blade is too small to be practical for most kitchen tasks. There's also the brittleness.

[Anonymous No.4597309]

>>4597301
You obviously use it for soft food. And they come in various sizes.

[Anonymous No.4597317]

>>4597298
>Henckels

I was looking at those. Have you used them?

[Anonymous No.4597320]

>>4597309

If you use it for soft food, why not just use steel?

[Anonymous No.4597328]

Fujiwara FKM 240mm gyuto - $80
Forshner/Victorinox 10" bread/serrated pastry - $25
Who gives a fuck bargain bin paring knife - $5

That's better than any set and will set you up for the next 10+ years, unlike the "hurr you should get a Forschner chef's knife it's good for $30 so you can get something better in six months" shit that gets suggested in every /ck/ knife thread.

If you're looking to spend the $250 on just kitchen knives, put it all into the chef's knife. A good French-style chef's knife will do 95% of your kitchen work as well as a drawer/block full of crap, and once you get good with it you'll mostly never use the paring knife, too.

[Anonymous No.4597338]

>>4597317
Not him, but Henckel has a hybrid French/German blade, so it's by far the most versatile if you're looking it the direction of Wusthof/Dick/Froschner.

[Anonymous No.4597340]

>>4597320
Because it cuts better than steel.

[Anonymous No.4597348]

Speaking of knives, I use my paring knife to do most of my meat preparation. Does this make me a bad person?

[Anonymous No.4597376]

>>4597348
It makes you a person with really shit knife skills.

[Anonymous No.4597381]

>>4597376
I never disagreed.

[Anonymous No.4597394]

>>4597381
Oh. Well, okay. I'd say it makes you a bad cook and that you should try to develop better knife skills, then.

[Anonymous No.4597437]

>>4597348
If it cuts, you're doing it right. Knife snobbery is veganism-tier retarded.

[Anonymous No.4597443]

Get a MAC SBK 105.

Best chefs knife in the world.

[Anonymous No.4597458]

>>4597317
I have a Henckels chefs knife im pretty happy with
I use it in a commercial kitchen & it gets sharpened daily
Would like it to keeo an edge longer but it goes through a lot of abuse every day
Everything from veggies to leafy greens to fish to beef & poultry
Ive even used it to open cans in a pinch
It takes a beating daily & performs quite well
Cost me aboit $130 after a 20% coupon

[Anonymous No.4597503]

http://www.americastestkitchen.com/equipment-reviews/detail.php?docid=32203&incode=M**ASCA00

[Anonymous No.4597529]

I have a question about western vs. Japanese knives. I know Japanese knives are made of a harder steel, usually cladded VG-10. For and all purpose chefs knife, wouldn't a German or French chefs knife be a better option, since you can do things such as break down chicken without worrying about cracking the knife edge, which you might have to worry about in Japanese blades?

[Anonymous No.4597557]

Wusthof for the professionals. Victorinox for everyone else.

[Anonymous No.4597578]

What about Sabatier knives? I never see them mentioned at all...

[Anonymous No.4597582]

Dollar store everything + a ceramic knife for delicate food.

[Anonymous No.4597606]

My awesome aunt got me a Henckel chef's knife for my birthday last week, it cuts through EVERYTHING like goddamned butter.

[Anonymous No.4597630]

>>4597394
>shit knife skills
>bad cook

That's not necessarily true at all. Bad knife skills would certainly make him a bad chef, but he can be a decent cook despite poor knife work.

[Anonymous No.4597636]

>>4597529
And how often do you break down a chicken? Meanwhile, if you're doing finesse work, that (relatively) fat, soft, and dull knife crushes through what you're trying to cut, squishing and bursting the cells rather than severing them cleanly.

Look, I don't think I've ever seen anyone who doesn't admit that those Wusthofs or whatever are better for heavy duty work, but for most people (even in professional kitchens) heavy duty work makes up a very small portion of what they use a knife for.

[Anonymous No.4597637]

>>4597578
Because they are not worth mentioning.

[Anonymous No.4597638]

>>4597219
If you know anything about /ck/ you should be prepared, because there's a possible shitstorm imminent. Lots of knife autists here who have one opinion on knives — their own – and think nobody else knows anything if they don't agree with everything they hold dear.

>1. I told her the most important knife to have in the kitchen is a chef's knife. Should she get an individual chef's knife or is one in a set adequate?
It depends on the set, no question. But sets as a rule are *not* good buys, it's usually a better bet to buy your knives individually. But there are exceptions, so if you have a good idea of knife prices and you know the standard of what you're buying they can represent good value

>2. Care to recommend a brand for a set of knives? Preferably something I can find in the US and maybe around $250. I'm not looking for top of the line, just something adequate.
$250 will more than get you 'adequate'. I don't know what it is with people these days who assume you need to spend that much to get decent quality... especially for a casual user like your GF, but seriously even for you you could individually buy 5-7 knives and still have enough change for a steel AND a couple of chopping boards!

I think the must-haves are a good chef's knife and a serrated bread knife (which can be used for more than bread if it suits the user). You could add to that a large cleaver/chopper and a paring knife and be set for life.

For a cheap-but-good chef's knife, the Victorinox Fibrox range is more than good enough for any home user since it can do heavy duty in a working kitchen. That'll set you back no more than about 40 bucks (30 and change on Amazon currently, with free shipping).

Want **an entire set** of decent quality carbon-steel knives for not much more money?
http://www.lifeandhome.com/5-piece-old-hckry-cutlery-set.html

The aesthetics won't please everyone and they need more care because they're not stainless steel, but they're damned good quality.

[Anonymous No.4597642]

>>4597578
Because it's not a brand. It's basically a generic name for "chef's knife" in France because the name predates modern trademark protections.

I have some old Sebatiers (carbon, not stainless) and the quality is excellent. But some things sold under this name are junk unfortunately.

So you have to do your research carefully if you're buying knives by this name.

[Anonymous No.4597647]

>>4597578
Mostly people who want a French pattern are using a good gyuto these days, since using harder steel that takes a sharper edge for a knife pattern that excels at a slicing motion just makes sense, both for finesse and paring work. Everybody else is using a German blunderbuss because that's what mommy/chefs 30 years ago relied on because the German companies had better quality control, led the market for stainless when it went big, and the Sabatier name predates copyright/trademark law so if you don't do your research you really don't know what the hell you're getting with a "Sabatier" compared to knowing exactly what you're getting with a "Henckel."

tl;dr: Casual home cooks forgot about Sabatier decades ago and enthusiasts moved on to harder steel and no finger guards.

[Anonymous No.4597652]

These threads are always a clusterfuck.
Why don't people post on real knife forums.

How are you going to sharpen OP?

You NEED a chefs knife, or a gyuto if you want japanese. 10 inches, or 240mm would probably be best, but 8 inches or 210mm is also good. You also need to think about tasks you often do. If you slice lots of crusty bread, get a bread knife. If you break down lots of chickens, look at a boning knife or a honesuki. You get the idea.

Spend the majority of your budget on the chefs knife. Despite what most people say, breaking down a chicken will be no problem with most Japanese gyutos, unless you're looking at a masamoto ks or something similarly thin, which you simply aren't. That said, if you're testy about using your new knife for these tasks, either keep what you have now for it, or get an old hickory carbon butchers knife for it. They are cheap due to the fit and finish, but are made from a decent carbon steel.

My recommendation at the 250$ mark would be to get a 240mm Misono sweden. If you can handle carbon. If not, maybe a masamoto VG, or a suisin inox. I'd get the inox over any knife as a budget one, FWIW.

[Anonymous No.4597655]

>>4597638
>The aesthetics won't please everyone
Neither will the lack of a proper chef's knife/anything with a shred of finger clearance.

[Anonymous No.4597669]

>>4597652
I'd agree with you up to the Misono Sweden. It was a great knife two years ago when the 240mm cost around $120. I've used it before and it takes the sharpest knife of any knife I've ever handled, full stop. In the meantime, though, they've adjusted export prices to reflect the weak American dollar and now you're going to pay upwards of $200 for one, at which point you're better looking at the Masamoto HC if you can handle carbon (it's more robust than its more expensive KS cousin) since compared to the Misono Sweden the HC has better geometry, the steel is more stable (ie., won't react as quickly to water/acids/etc. and won't color the taste of highly acidic foods out of the box/before a heavy patina has been set), and though it won't get quite as sharp it's both easier to sharpen and holds its edge better.

[Anonymous No.4597671]

>>4597669
er, takes the sharpest edge.

[Anonymous No.4597676]

>>4597636
I actually break down chicken quite a bit, as it is a lot less expensive per lb. than buying breasts at my farmer's market. You are probably right, though.

I'll just get a cheap victorinox chef's knife, and a nice thin Japanese knife.

[Anonymous No.4597694]

>>4597669

The misono dragon is up at 170$, I think they went over 200 but now they've dropped quite a lot. I guess in regards to the reactivity it depends on a few things, primarily what you want from a knife. I want the sharpest, full stop. A hot vinegar patina works to stop any reactivity issues

[Anonymous No.4597700]

>>4597676
A Victorinox you can abuse a bit in that situation isn't a bad call. The other option (if you want a bit more weight for a chicken killer and don't mind a yellow or orange handle) is to find a kitchen supply store that caters to restaurants, as they'll often sell refurbished pro level Heckel and Wusthof for cheap (most big kitchens have loan deals with one or the other to supply the knives all the grunts use, and every six months they gather all the knives up, put on a new edge and handle, and sell them in bulk to kitchen supply stores who then in turn sell them as grunt knives to smaller restaurants for $25-35 apiece).

[Anonymous No.4597714]

>>4597694
>I want the sharpest, full stop
Fair enough if you can pull that extra 1% out of the Sweden. Most people can't, though, and should be aware that it's a slightly higher maintenance knife. As you say, though, it's all a clusterfuck of opinions, and my top criteria in judging a chef knife's worth is how close it comes to a good, vintage Sab in profile.

Any case, if it's down to $170 for the 240mm then somebody looking for carbon should at least consider it again—it was a bargain before and then overpriced, so that seems about right.

[Anonymous No.4597728]

>>4597676
With things like Masamoto and Misono high carbon knives being mentioned, it bears mentioning that most carbon gyutos should be able to handle breaking down chicken. They're harder and thinner, but high carbon steel is more forgiving than stainless. If you're getting a the thinnest, lightest stainless gyuto on the market (the Masahiro comes to mind there, which has a bolster half the size of every other gyuto on the market because the blade's so thin and light it'd be tail heavy otherwise) then you'd definately need a beater to go along with it.

[Anonymous No.4597735]

What's /ck/'s opinions on santukos?

[Anonymous No.4597752]

>>4597735
>trolling on the internet

[Anonymous No.4597755]

>>4597735
Good, but can never be as good as a gyuto.

[Anonymous No.4597771]

>>4597735
If you grew up mashing vegetables with a fat Wusthof it'll be a revelation. If you grew up with a well maintained Sabatier or have ever used a gyuto it will be the definition of stupid and fail.

[Anonymous No.4597879]

>>4597735
They have their place. I still have to see a real reason that gyutos are better than 'they just are'

[Anonymous No.4597914]

>>4597879
Fuck your mother.

[Anonymous No.4598133]

>>4597714
>implying carbon steel isn't easier to get sharp

not everyone is a 17th generation weebamoto bladesmith
I'm sure you can get a smooth shave off a shovel rubbed on sidewalk but not all of us are so fortunate.

[Anonymous No.4598320]

>>4598133
I did no such thing, Retardo Montelban, since the Misono Swedish and the Masamoto HC are both high carbon lines.

[Anonymous No.4598354]

>>4598320
oh sorry I thought you were saying Sweden steel vs ux10. didn't follow the reply chain all the way back.

[Anonymous No.4598360]

>>4598354
Why would anyone talk about the ux10, shits way overpriced

[Anonymous No.4598410]

>>4598360
they're very nice knives aside from the steel. back in the day when there weren't as many options, they weren't such a bad choice. yesterday's super steels are today's pleb trash, of course.
I'd buy some anyway if I had a bigger kitchen and money to burn.

[Anonymous No.4598532]

>>4598354
No worries. Really wondered there.

>>4598360
>>4598410
Misono jacking their prices up came up earlier, too. For what they used to cost the UX10 stuff was top of the line. Now, they're still good knives but just ridiculously overpriced. I'd be genuinely curious to see their sale figures over the past 2-3 years, especially at the "low" end where their moly stuff is now just hilariously priced for what it is.