/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.4521887]

how on earth are you meant to know for sure which foods are healthy and which foods aren't when there's so much conflicting evidence on both sides?

pic unrelated, there's conclusive evidence that this is unhealthy. wish it was the same for food

[Anonymous No.4521895]

Vegetables, fruits, whole grains, low fat proteins are all considered universally to be healthy

Even "bad foods" like chips and fried food are fine in moderation

It's less about what is bad and good for you and more about not being a glutinous fat fuck and controlling what you eat

[Anonymous No.4521907]

>>4521895
That's on target. As long as you're maintaining a healthy weight and a reasonable diet, you should be fine.

At worst, talk to your doctor if you have concerns.

[Anonymous No.4521924]

>>4521895
Also to expand on this, diets like "paleo" and "keto" are absolutely fucking RETARDED and should be avoided at all costs

[Anonymous No.4521932]

>>4521887
most things don't matter

just eat a variety of things and get a moderate amount of exercise and you will be fine

[Anonymous No.4521935]

>>4521924
Not that i'm an expert,nor do I paleo.. but paleo isn't actually half bad imo as a starting point.
It's basically >>4521895
minus whole grains, or limited whole grains.
My understanding is it's lean proteins, lots of veggies, some fruit, some fats (from oils, nuts, or seeds) - that's actually not a bad way to eat.

I think paleo is a good start for people who eat terribly and who maybe need some guidelines, that being said - I don't think any diet that has some sort keyword to it should be followed for a long time.

I know less about keto - but keto seems a bit...intense.

[Anonymous No.4521985]

>>4521887
>how on earth are you meant to know for sure which foods are healthy and which foods aren't

A variety of things: Sodium content, preservative content, micro and macro content, etc.

>when there's so much conflicting evidence on both sides?

What exactly are you referring to? What "evidence" is suggesting which food has conflicting evidence to suggest it is healthy or not? I'm getting the feeling that you misunderstand the meaning of "evidence".

>pic unrelated, there's conclusive evidence that this is unhealthy. wish it was the same for food

Pic unrelated or related? Smoking is unhealthy; nicotine and burnt paper will fuck your shit up--there is no contesting that, but you're comparing it to some illusive food or food group. Which are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.4522024]

>>4521985

You may have misunderstood OP's post more than I've ever seen anyone misunderstand anyone's post in the entirety of the internet

[Anonymous No.4522030]

Health is a hard thing to know, especially for humans. Unlike most animals who evolve in one area and evolve around their local plants and whatnot to establish a natural diet, humans constantly spread out to new lands. These new lands don't have the same foods they evolved to eat, so they had to eat less than optimal foods to fend off starvation. Pretty much any food will keep you alive long enough to consider it a part of your diet, but to be in true health requires a more "natural" diet, which in my opinion is a plant-based diet rich in fruits above all

[Anonymous No.4522032]

>>4521887

OP, what sorts of foods are you wondering about, that have conflicting evidence? Healthy foods I'm thinking of are pretty uncontroversial.

I know there are debates about how bad Aspartame is, with conflicting evidence, but nobody's suggesting Diet Coke is part of a healthy diet.

>>4521895

The first reply in this thread said it quite well.

[Anonymous No.4522035]

All I know is that I changed my diet to mostly vegetables, and I have lost a considerable amount of weight. I barely even exercised and still drank heavily.

[Anonymous No.4522045]

>>4522035

Vegetables don't have a lot of calories. Chances are if you didn't exercise, you didn't actually lose much or any fat, but you wasted away all your muscle underneath the fat. Essentially you starved yourself

[Anonymous No.4522054]

>>4521924

Why? Whole grains aren't good for you lol, they turn into sugar in your stomach and weren't consumed by humans for 99.9% of humans existence.

I don't follow paleo but what exactly makes it retarded?

[Anonymous No.4522056]

>>4522045

Damn you know nothing about the human body and yet you post here as if you do. Kind of weird actually, why do you do that?

[Anonymous No.4522057]

>>4522054

>they turn into sugar in your stomach

So does any carb. You're supposed to eat sugar. Your body runs on glucose. Don't let Richard Obese Atkins tell you to gorge yourself on fat

[Anonymous No.4522058]

>>4521895
>whole grains
What about phytic acid? Supposedly, this bonds to certain nutrients that your body needs, and unless you're fermenting/sprouting them, whole grains would be worse than white flour/processed products.

[Anonymous No.4522063]

>>4522054
The fact that it's an all-exclusive diet.

The premise, however, is sound. More lean meats and veggies, less processed crap and grains. Combine that with exercise and moderate to no drug (including tobacco/alcohol) use, that's the best health advise you'll find anywhere.

[Anonymous No.4522066]

>>4522057

You're not supposed to eat nearly as much of it as most people are getting.

I just don't see how people can be so anti fad to say that eating paleo is retarded. Paleo means eating a lot of meat, vegetables, fruit, fish and fowl, eggs and nuts. All of that shit is clean, real, whole foods. Sure, paleo isn't the only way to be healthy but it's a diet that specifically restricts people to eating 100% fresh or fermented and a very low sugar and healthy diet.

but hurr it's RETARDED and should be avoided at all costs.

[Anonymous No.4522069]

>>4522056

What don't I know? Your body eats up muscle before it eats up fat if you're not using your muscles, since if you're not using them they're just wasting more precious calories

[Anonymous No.4522073]

>>4522063

>all exclusive

What the fuck are you talking about? It excludes processed foods and like... bread/rice. If you eat paleo 100% of the time, you are healthy as fuck, whether or not the diet is scientifically the best possible, eating paleo all the time means never eating shitty useless bread carbs and eating 100% whole, non processed foods for every meal.

That is healthy as fuck no matter what you call your diet.

[Anonymous No.4522074]

>>4522069

no

[Anonymous No.4522078]

>>4522074

Sorry to break it to you, but yes. Nature isn't about looking good, it's about survival. Your body's going to hang onto fat if you're not getting enough calories and you're not actively using those muscles. Muscles are inefficient

[Anonymous No.4522081]

>>4522078

lol yeh cause a fat guy who didn't exercise before he started dieting is going to be so packed with inefficient muscle mass that it all has to go before he loses any fat...

[Anonymous No.4522088]

>>4522081

What are you, retarded? If you're covered in fat, obviously you have muscle to go with the fat, and the muscle you're using to support the fat will remain until you've burned some fat. The weight you lose is going to scale down the same way though. You'll be thinner but you'll just have no muscle and still a giant layer of fat, just less fat than before, and much less muscle

Healthiest way to lose weight is to lift weights alongside calorie cutting to retain your muscle so you just burn fat, otherwise you're basically turning yourself into a doughy stick. You'll look smaller but you won't stop being fat

[Anonymous No.4522090]

>>4522088

I never said what he was doing was the healthiest, but fat is inefficient to carry around too and your body will burn it off with a calorie deficit.

[Anonymous No.4522091]

>>4522073
It completely excludes grains and junk food. That is just as retarded as completely excluding meat.

[Anonymous No.4522094]

>>4522091

lol no, it's really not

See... meat is healthy for you, grains and junk food are unhealthy for you.

[Anonymous No.4522097]

>>4522090

Right, I'm just saying starving yourself will eventually bring fat-loss but you're also losing huge amounts of muscle with it, and that, along with water weight, is usually what's going on when people don't exercise but say they're losing weight. "Weight" ain't a bad thing, fat's what you're trying to lose

[Anonymous No.4522098]

These are my opinions on several subjects. Whole grains good or bad for weightloss? bad! turns to fat just as fast as any other shitty grain carb. Sodium good or bad? You can eat a truckload when your younger but not when your older, its not like your body stores the sodium and gives you a heart attack at 50 . Msg good or bad? no one knows, it got blamed for a lot of people getting sick back in the day when it didn't, but no proof its bad. Vegetables vs. fruit: Fruit has sugar packed in it, its candy basically. You can get all your nutrients from veggies and they are 100 times better for weight loss.

But to answer your question OP, your going to have to do what works for you. Look at people doing low carb, look at people doing vegan, look at people bitching and moaning about vegan or low carb and see how they are.

[Anonymous No.4522099]

No food is "bad."

Excess food is what's bad. The reasons all the tasty foods get labeled bad is because it's a lot easier to eat a lot of these foods.

So when someone eats a half dozen donuts and become fat, they might blame the donuts for making them fat and not that they ate too many of them in one sitting every week for years.

However nobody is going to sit around and eat 6 small steamer bags of broccoli. That just doesn't taste as good and is therefore harder to eat a lot of. By the end of 6 donuts you're miserable, but by the end of 2 steamer bags of broccoli you're fucking tired of broccoli and would be fine never eating it again.

Within reason, there is no good or bad food. There is just excess of things that taste good. I've lost 40 lbs and still haven't stopped eating "bad" foods. I just eat them in moderation, and still get my proteins, fats, and carbs in roughly where they need to be so that I can gain muscle and still burn off all this fat.

I'm down to 239 at about 20-22% bodyfat and still haven't stopped eating foods I like.

[Anonymous No.4522100]

>>4522090
You are correct

>>4522097
You actually won't burn muscle mass till your at about 2% body fat

[Anonymous No.4522106]

>>4522099

>no food is bad

lol okay, sure eating one donut a week is fine, but it's still bad food because it's a fuck ton of sugar and has no nutritional value.

[Anonymous No.4522105]

>>4522100

>You actually won't burn muscle mass till your at about 2% body fat

Screencapping this to post on /fit/. They'll be pleased to know they don't have to lift any weights while they're cutting

If you have 2% body fat, you're no longer alive

[Anonymous No.4522108]

>>4522099
the steamer bags of broccoli are loaded with sugar haha raw broccoli is right there in produce and doesn't have sugar in it. I think OP knows what your saying but it still stands to reason, that the food pyramid is bullshit and taking in 70% your calories in carbs is what made america fat to begin with

[Anonymous No.4522113]

>>4522106

> it's still bad food because it's a fuck ton of sugar

It's a fuck ton of fat too

[Anonymous No.4522115]

>>4522099
Broccoli is fucking delicious.

[Anonymous No.4522116]

>>4522113

Yeh it's shit, I mean you can eat some shitty food and be okay... that doesn;t mean the food isn't shitty.

[Anonymous No.4522117]

>>4522108

> taking in 70% your calories in carbs is what made america fat to begin with

... What do YOU think the standard american diet is? Rice and fruit? It's the excessive fat that made people fat

[Anonymous No.4522119]

>>4522117

>what do you think the standard american diet is

Lots and lots of white bread

[Anonymous No.4522122]

>>4522117
The American diet consists mostly of carbs. Americans eat so many carbs its ridiculous. Soda, pizza, hamburgers, frieds; all the foods that most people associate with fat Americans are filled with carbs.

[Anonymous No.4522126]

>>4522117
Cause fat turns to fat when you eat it? At least i know which posts are yours because of the reaction images. You are retarded. Honestly, fat doesn't make you fat, sugar does, excess calories and carbs turning into blood sugar when you don't work them off makes you fat. If you go on an all bacon diet and drink the saturated fat when your done cooking the bacon you would lose more then eating brown rice everyday. If you know fuck all why post your retarded opinion?

[Anonymous No.4522161]

>>4522122
the american diet consists of eating over your daily amount of calories. thats what makes you fat.

[Anonymous No.4522167]

>>4522161
>says its the excess fat that is the problem
>gets called out on bullshit
>now says its the excess calories

Make up your mind you retard

[Anonymous No.4522171]

Eat the souls of the children of your dead enemies!

[Anonymous No.4522177]

>>4522161
So what? You sound like a certified homosexual.

[Anonymous No.4522231]

>>4522122

>pizza, hamburgers, frieds; all the foods that most people associate with fat Americans are filled with carbs.

Why would you ignore the massive amounts of fat in those foods?

[Anonymous No.4522233]

>>4522126

>Honestly, fat doesn't make you fat, sugar does

Tell that to Durianrider, a guy who eats 5000+ calories a day of pure fructose and has 5% body fat year round

[Anonymous No.4522243]

>>4522126

>If you go on an all bacon diet and drink the saturated fat when your done cooking the bacon you would lose more then eating brown rice everyday

Why does China not have an obesity epidemic?

In fact, why does every single one of the leanest countries on earth put emphasis on a high carb, low fat diet, while the fattest countries on earth put emphasis on a high fat, low carb diet?

[Anonymous No.4522245]

>>4522243

Jesus christ get a load of this retard... he thinks calories from fat will cause you to gain more weight than calories from anything else.

[Anonymous No.4522248]

>>4522243

>why does china not have an obesity epidemic

lol because most people are too poor to afford the surplus of calories that cause obesity

What fat countries but an emphasis on low carb diets? America? They eat nothing but bread and potatoes. Australia? Same deal lol

What sort of country puts an effort on high fat low carb diets? I've never heard of one.

[Anonymous No.4522250]

>>4522245

>durr, everything is metabolised the same way

That's not how biology works in any context. Different calorie sources have different effects on the body

[Anonymous No.4522257]

>>4522250

Nope, 400 calories of bacon will cause you to gain or lose as much weight as 400 calories of broccoli.

[Anonymous No.4522259]

>>4522248

> most people are too poor to afford the surplus of calories that cause obesity

They gorge themselves on rice, extremely cheap, high-carb, high-calorie food of which they can most definitely afford to eat beyond their caloric needs. In China, the poor eat rice and the wealthy eat meat and use cooking oils, and then become fat

>America? They eat nothing but bread and potatoes

When you say "bread" you mean 2 small slices of bread that's been made with added fat, holding together a fatty piece of beef with some cheese on top. When you say "potatoes" you mean mashed potatoes with a stick of butter in it or thinly cut potatoes fried and saturated in grease. Stop ignoring the fat content, everything you find unhealthy is stuff that's had fat added to it. Is fruit causing an obesity epidemic?

[Anonymous No.4522262]

>people not knowing about calories in vs calories out

Albeit, there are healthier ways of doing it.

2000 calories of twinkies vs 2000 calories kale, for example.

[Anonymous No.4522264]

>>4522259

Fat is a fuck load of calories... eating more high calorie food makes people fat, who would have thought?

So yes, eating 5000 calories of fat will probably make you fat unless you are super active, but so would 5000 calories of spinach (though that might fucking kill you before you could get it all down lol).

In china the poor eat less calories and are thin and the rich eat more calories and move less and become fat.

[Anonymous No.4522275]

>>4522264

>but so would 5000 calories of spinach

Vegetables aren't a great calorie source, but let's say 5000 calories of bananas. I happen to know someone who eats that much

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85R5Fb_DCzY

[Anonymous No.4522278]

>>4522275

What are you trying to say here? What I'm saying is fucking proven to be true. Calories in all affect your weight the same. If she ate 50 bananas a day and that equalled to 5000 calories she would have to burn a ton of calories to lose/maintain her weight. This isn't anymore of an argument than me saying the sky is blue lol

[Anonymous No.4522284]

>>4522278

>If she ate 50 bananas a day and that equalled to 5000 calories she would have to burn a ton of calories to lose/maintain her weight

A 127 pound girl can't in any way burn enough of those calories to reach maintenance by a long shot. Fruitians at large disprove what you're trying to say. They're the only diet that PROMOTES eating as many calories as possible, as long as it's all coming from carbs and very very little fat and protein. They LOSE weight by taking in excess calories from carbohydrate sources, namely raw fruits. You eat fat if you're trying to store energy on your body like a bear in hibernation, but a diet of carbs is not going to leave you obese, they burn through your system too efficiently

[Anonymous No.4522286]

>>4522275
She said she needed her rest which means she's probably constantly active most days, in which case, you'd need extra calories. Also, isn't that guy a marathon runner?

[Anonymous No.4522293]

>>4522284

A 127 pound girl can burn thousands of calories, but your video isn't proof of anything. You do realize that you're getting red in the face and arguing against something which has definitively been proven? I don't even have to argue with you, it's not an opinion, it's not up for debate, you're just wrong.

[Anonymous No.4522292]

>>4522286

No matter how active, a 127 pound girl does not just burn off 5000 calories. 5000 calories is what a 200+ pound bodybuilder eats during his bulking cycle. Durianrider is a runner who trains a few times a month, with the majority of his days spent sitting on his ass making youtube videos and eating 80 bananas a day

[Anonymous No.4522297]

>A widely held belief is that the sugars in starches are readily converted into fat and then stored unattractively in the abdomen, hips, and buttock. Incorrect! And there is no disagreement about the truth among scientists or their published scientific research.5-13 After eating, the complex carbohydrates found in starches, such as rice, are digested into simple sugars in the intestine and then absorbed into the bloodstream where they are transported to trillions of cells in the body in order to provide for energy. Carbohydrates (sugars) consumed in excess of the body’s daily needs can be stored as glycogen in the muscles and liver. The total storage capacity for glycogen is about two pounds. >Carbohydrates consumed in excess of our need and beyond our limited storage capacity are not readily stored as body fat. Instead, these excess carbohydrate calories are burned off as heat (a process known as facultative dietary thermogenesis) or used in physical movements not associated with exercise.

http://drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/mar/passionate.htm

[Anonymous No.4522298]

Meat = always good.
Real vegetables(tomatos/carrots/greens/etc = always good.
Dairy = generally good.
Shit vegetables(starches/grains) = only ok on bulk/maintenance.
Fruits/junkfood = ok on bulk or maintenance, try to avoid it though.
nuts = good, however too calorie dense for people not bulking, taking them on a cut is full retard.

[Anonymous No.4522301]

>>4522298

>Dairy = generally good

[Anonymous No.4522306]

>>4522293

>it's definitely been proven!
>besides what you're showing me that's disproven it

Common nutritional ignorance changes every couple of years. You'll find a new health fad to hate on. From "carbs are bad, sausage is good" to "vegetables cause cancer, only eat meat and cheese"

[Anonymous No.4522310]

>>4522306

Carbs aren't bad you slob, eating a shitload of simple carbs as the main part of your diet is.

[Anonymous No.4522312]

>>4522069

Yeah.....nah.....
I'm gunna call troll, cos surely no one is this stupid.

[Anonymous No.4522317]

>>4522312

lol skinnyfat vegan.

Mad cause you're underweight yet have 20% bodyfat?

try lifting and eating meat if you want to lose fat instead of muscle.

[Anonymous No.4522319]

>>4521887
Could this guy be anymore trashy?

[Anonymous No.4523160]

>>4522317
I have under 5% bodyfat on eating solely fruit. I could outdo you in any feat of stamina. Enjoy your bloated muscles, macho man

[Anonymous No.4523175]

>>4523160
inb4 compensating

[Anonymous No.4523189]

>>4521887
>it was the same for food

It *IS* the same for food, you just have to know a few rules to wade past the bullshit.

1) The ONLY and I mean ONLY thing that you trust on the label of pre-packaged food is the ingredients list.

2) When researching topics like the safety of things only trust peer-reviewed papers, not what your buddy says or what a website says. Peer-reviewed papers only.

3) When reading peer-reviewed papers look for strong terminology like "causes". Vague words such as "linked to" or "correlated with" imply uncertainly.

4) Or, if you want to avoid all that, simply avoid processed foods altogether and eat a varied diet that is prepared from scratch. That way you don't have to worry about the safety of anything artificial because you aren't eating any of it. The human race has done just fine eating natural foods for millennia. Artificial additives and so forth are relatively new, so while they might be safe, the data is relatively sparse, whereas we KNOW that eating reasonable amounts of natural foods isn't harmful.

tl;dr: eat whatever you want, but only in moderation and keep your diet varied. anything can be unhealthy if you eat too much of it.

[That Guy No.4523223]

>>4523160
pics or you're full of shit

[Anonymous No.4523249]

>>4523160
>any feat of stamina

I once FAP'ed 26 times in a row...fruitfag.

[Anonymous No.4523264]

>>4522298
fruit and nuts are always good

they can EASILY be fit into any kind of diet in a healthy way. Just cause they have too many calories for YOU doesn't make them unhealthy. Someone cutting can and should incorporate nuts for satiety and long lasting energy.

[Anonymous No.4523301]

tl;dr

eat less sugary snacks and drinks, tubba. this includes most processed foods. sugar makes you hungrier, causing you to overeat.

eat well seasoned vegetables and a moderate amounts of well prepared proteins. don't worry about fat in savory meals. in absence of a lot of sugar, fat will fill you up and you won't overeat.

Most healthscares are bullshit, and government agencies are corrupt and ignore data if it conflicts with their outdated puritan ideas about enjoying the food you eat or supporting industries represented by well-paid armies of lobbyists.

take it from me. I have an opinion.

[Anonymous No.4523362]

>>4523223
Look up Durianrider on Youtube.

[Anonymous No.4523377]

>>4521887

No food is "unhealthy". If they were, they wouldn't be food!

What's unhealthy is A LOT of food. Even really healthy stuff can give you vitamin poisoning (albeit if you gobble like six dozen a day).

[Anonymous No.4523429]

>>4522117
it's excess calories in general