/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.4257456]

Would you, /ck/?

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGNs1VXeFJA

[Anonymous No.4257637]

Why wouldnt you? Its just a cackadoodie frog.

[Anonymous No.4257642]

feels bad, man

[Anonymous No.4257646]

I don't think I could look something in the eye while I ate it alive. 2deep4me

[Anonymous No.4257659]

>>4257642
> feels bad, man

It would make my evening if someone would shop that together, little sad frog head on poor feller's funeral salad.

That "is" sad frog. Finally to experience what delicacy is, only to realize he's tits up in a salad and "is" the delicacy.

Pic unrelated

[Anonymous No.4257664]

>>4257456
Fuck, i couldn't even make it through the video OP, I couldn't eat that.

>tfw when it blinks

[Anonymous No.4257679]

Biologist here. If it offers any comfort, frogs lack the neural capacity to feel pain. This also applies to the majority of fish. It's mostly only fish with "skin", like catfish, that do actually have pain receptors.

[Anonymous No.4257699]

>>4257679
>Biologist here. If it offers any comfort, frogs lack the neural capacity to feel pain
Maybe you'll learn more in your third year of your undergrad bro.

[Anonymous No.4257698]

Man. Humans can be pretty heartless creatures.

Although honestly I'm hard pressed to figure how it could be more humane without being far more gross. You'd have to split it's head in half.

[Anonymous No.4257703]

the lemon is a halo.
St. Frog died for your culinary sins.

[Anonymous No.4257711]

>>4257699
>you're wrong
>no citation or argument

[Anonymous No.4257712]

>>4257679
If you're still here, I've heard that they are actually dead at the time but the soy sauce (the salt in it, in particular) on the open nerves and muscles cause them to spasm. Also the fact that amphibians move a lot after actual death. Could you shed any light on this?


On an unrelated note, the first time I saw this video way back when coincided with me eating cold leftover pasta/sauce, and made my brain associate the two together. So basically, this video made me unable to eat leftover pasta straight from the fridge ever again.

[Anonymous No.4257716]

>>4257711
How about you explain why frogs don't feel pain.

[Anonymous No.4257719]

the frog is not alive anymore, that is just a result of its simple nervous system, the thing doesn't even know its dead yet. The same way you chop the head off of a snake or turtle and they keep squirming and walking around for hours there after, that is just the body shutting down, its not actually still alive.

[Anonymous No.4257721]

>>4257712
salt is an electrolyte, it causes muscles to move when it is applied to them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YZJt_Bw3eo

[Anonymous No.4257722]

>>4257711
You do realize frogs are very common experimental models in experiments relating to analgesics and pain?

[Anonymous No.4257724]

>>4257712
>, this video made me unable to eat leftover pasta straight from the fridge ever again.

You
are
such
a
pussy

[Anonymous No.4257725]

>>4257722
like dis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svpsLZDgFK4

[Anonymous No.4257727]

>>4257724
>7edgy3me
Dude you probably have a gore folder!!!!11

[Anonymous No.4257730]

>>4257712
Well, this is a little tricky to answer. First of all, whether it is dead or not, yes the salts in the sauce will make the muscles spasm. The hard part is determining if it's truly dead or not. It's most likely "dead" as soon as its spine is severed, but the brain can continue to semi-work for many minutes afterward. The question is then what exactly constitutes it as dead. I will say though that they have nowhere near the complex consciousness that we have, and they also can't feel pain, so it's probably not suffering all that much.
I still couldn't eat it though, that is brutal.

>>4257716
They simply lack pain receptors. There are no pain receptors in their skin, and there are none in the brain either. We have specific neurons whose sole purpose is to react to tissue damage and help us perceive pain. Frogs do not have these.

[Anonymous No.4257737]

>>4257722
The frogs you speak of are African Clawed frogs, which are a bit of an anomaly. They have "skin" much like that of skinned fish and they do indeed have pain receptors.

>>4257725
This is... kind of demonstrating my point. The frog avoids acute heat because that is what it is made to respond to. It doesn't avoid gradually increasing heat because it doesn't feel its tissues being damaged (pain), and a real one would have been boiled alive.

[Anonymous No.4257739]

>>4257730
You are the reason why undergrads shouldn't refer to themselves as biologists and act like they have a strong knowledge base.

[Anonymous No.4257742]

>>4257739
Yes, continue to argue on the kindergarten level without making any actual argument. You sure showed me!

[Anonymous No.4257753]

>>4257742
Why do frogs have opioid receptors?

[Anonymous No.4257757]

>>4257730
>Machin, KL. Amphibian pain and analgesia. 1999. Journal of Zoo and Wildlife Medicine 30(1):2-10.

If you didn't know amphibians "had pain receptors" you fell asleep in way too many classes.

[Anonymous No.4257761]

>>4257742
>Pain perception and appropriate behavioral responses are important for survival. The conservation of the opioid ligand and receptor suggests evolution of opioid receptors mediating antinociception throughout vertebrate phylogeny. Fish, amphibians, and reptiles have appropriate neurologic components, display the appropriate behavior in response to a painful stimulus, and possess antinociceptive mechanisms to modulate pain.

But go on...

[Anonymous No.4257768]

>>4257753
I wasn't trying to make this complicated, and I obviously left some of that boring shit out.

Here's the bottom line on frogs. They DO experience nociception. In other words, they have that same pain reflex that we have. (Such as when you jerk your hand away from a flame) The receptors that respond to damaging stimuli are very simple and primitive, and not really comparable to ours. They don't feel suffering like we do, they don't have that ability to think "ow, this hurts". Their pain is limited to simple reflexes. The reason I was saying they just don't feel pain is because this is a cooking board and I wouldn't expect the average person to understand that there is a difference between what normal people call pain and what pain is scientifically.

So if you ask me if they feel pain the way we do, or your dog does, or the birds in the sky do, the answer is no.

[Anonymous No.4257772]

Do you think the people gave a fuck when they devised this dish if frogs felt pain or not?

[Anonymous No.4257780]

>>4257772
of course not. 4chan always whips out their googling skills when someone claims to know anything about anything about anything

[Anonymous No.4257810]

>>4257456
someone please shoop this face on there

[Anonymous No.4257816]

>>4257698
You could probably just tap a chisel into the back of its head, sever its brainstem

[Anonymous No.4257825]

>>4257659

[Anonymous No.4257827]

I suspect that dish is probably delicious as hell. I'd be weirded out by it at first, as I generally prefer my supper to be stationary when I consume it, but I'd eat it. When in Rome, etc. I'd probably enjoy it.

Plenty of creatures have to suffer in order to bring that clean styrofoam tray of meat to your grocery refrigerators. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't real.

[Anonymous No.4257830]

>>4257810
>>4257456

this kills the frog

[Anonymous No.4257835]

>>4257456
Japanese are fucking shitty people, surprising absolutely nobody. Look at that bitch smiling as it claws around.

I know they dont feel pain, but these fuckers sure don't. Same deal with it moving around. They dont understand that it's an involuntary reaction. (By they, I mean the average person, and the people who came up with this however long ago)

[Anonymous No.4257842]

>>4257768
>citation needed

[Anonymous No.4257845]

>>4257835
You are a fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.4257846]

>>4257768
>They don't feel suffering like we do, they don't have that ability to think "ow, this hurts".
How can this be proven?

[Anonymous No.4257851]

>>4257845
And why would that be? Because I think it's pretty messed up to be unfazed by eating something still flailing?

[Anonymous No.4257853]

>>4257846
the real question is, how can it be disproved?

[Anonymous No.4257856]

>>4257853
You don't understand how science works.

[Anonymous No.4257857]

>>4257851
>Japanese are fucking shitty people, surprising absolutely nobody.
It is the fact you can type something like this and pass the rest of your shit off like it has a point. I think it is pretty messed up that you are a fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.4257870]

>>4257856
but I do know how to make baseless accusations online, you know what I am saying champ?

[Anonymous No.4257872]

>>4257870
Saying frogs don't have "pain receptors" then backtracking and saying "b-but they aren't sentient" isn't exactly exhibiting stellar knowledge in biology. Your unsubstantiated and odd choices of null hypothesis are also interesting.

[Anonymous No.4257876]

>>4257857
Hey, in my experience, the culture in Japan leads to a lot of things that I am pretty against. I spent about two months in japan after graduating university (not a weeb, just felt like working as an english teacher in a couple of countries before settling down), and out of all the places I've been, Japan was the most fucked up. The older generations are the most racist assholes I've ever met. It's like the deep south. A majority of the people I met were extremely rude (although I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, and say that's just cultural differences), and the penchant for eating squirming, living things is just shocking. People should not feel okay with doing that, it's basic empathy, and that's one of the things that sets us apart from animals.

[Anonymous No.4257879]

>>4257872
i'm not the poster you were originally replying to, stellar deduction though watson.

[Anonymous No.4257898]

>>4257730
>>4257768
Thanks for clearing all this up /sci//ck/o.

Unless someone else can say otherwise (instead of just random sniping at you) I can say I learned something today. Interesting stuff.

[Anonymous No.4257920]

Any /sp/ here remember this?

[Anonymous No.4257922]

>>4257876
You were a foreigner living in a country that you knew little about and felt disgusted when your sensibilities were violated. You continue to pass off your resentment as something that validates shitty talking points. Having basic analytical skills is what sets retards and everyone else apart.

[Anonymous No.4257923]

>>4257898
what exactly did he clear up? he went from "frogs don't have pain" to "frogs have pain but not real pain but you're all too pleb to understand the difference so neener"
when what he means to say is
"psychologists who study pain systematically reject a theory of mind for animals because it is way too expensive to strap down frogs or mice or whatever into a SPECT scanner and watch their little brains light up while we torture them."

[Anonymous No.4257930]

>>4257920
>Houston Texans getting sad over losing
But don't they lose all of the time?

[Wumplord No.4257931]

>>4257920
aww yiss

[Anonymous No.4257937]

>>4257923
He went from "frogs don't feel pain," to "frogs don't feel pain as we generally know it," citing receptors and reactions. Also knowing that not all frogs are the same, and that the a specific species (probably in this video) actually does have the capacity for pain like we know it. I thought it was pretty fascinating.


But honestly
>psychologists

You're seriously saying a pseudo scientist knows more about life than a biologist? That's laughable.


I don't really want to argue, so respond if you must, but I won't be responding to you.

[Anonymous No.4257941]

>>4257937
>You're seriously saying a pseudo scientist knows more about life than a biologist? That's laughable.
Who are these biologist's that decided frogs "don't feel real pain"? Please show me a publication that shows this, I am curious.

[Anonymous No.4257942]

>>4257922
See, I understand some things, like perceived rudeness, and all of those kinds of things. I mean, I understand when people eat dog meat (not saying that's japanese, I know it's not), but there's something lacking when there's no compassion for another living thing. I'm not saying they have to cry about it or anything, but the fact that anyone from any culture could eat something while it's still alive is messed up. That sort of innate compassion should be universal, and it is in literally every country I've been to with the exception of japan and nearby countries. It's the only region that can do so with a smile on their face, and that's NOT being ethnocentric.

[Anonymous No.4257945]

>>4257937
>I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG!!!!! (puts hands over ears and stomps out)

Ah, a true critical thinker.

[Anonymous No.4257948]

>>4257930
Nah the Texans are beast these days. The pic is from last year, Arian Foster accidentally ran over a frog while backing out of his driveway and started tweeting about it. He's a vegan and pretty spiritual guy so I'd imagine that it really did bother him. Was going on about frog gods and frog feelings.

[Anonymous No.4257951]

>>4257937
the department of psychology at my global top 15 school hosts the university's major brain imaging/optogene center, and psych converges with the neuroscience department at the grad level. I have no idea how it works at your school

[Anonymous No.4257952]

>>4257948
I believe the sitting quarterback meme started around week 7 this year. But yeah, they usually do reference older shit.

[Anonymous No.4257955]

>>4257456
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGNs1VXeFJA
is there a reason the frog doesn't struggle?

[Anonymous No.4257960]

>>4257951
I could deride further, but I'm not closed minded.

What actually are some concrete things that neuroscience and psychology has done hand in hand?

I know there have been tests that "this stimuli" creates "this effect in a brain region" but that's neither here nor there.

Educate my pleb ass.

[Anonymous No.4257962]

>>4257952
I said last year, as in 2012. Not last season. I think it happened early in the season in 2012. There is probably articles about it somewhere, I remember /sp/ got wind of it and tried to fuck with Foster for a little while. I discouraged them from doing so because I think Foster is actually a genuinely good person as opposed to much of the NFL.

[Anonymous No.4258039]

>>4257942
>See, I understand some things, like perceived rudeness, and all of those kinds of things.
I don't think you do nor do I think you give a shit about compassion for another living thing. Your anecdotes do not make up for your lack of analytical ability. This back and forth have been you attempting to cast Asians as immoral bogeymen and me pointing that retardation out. If you had any compassion or sense, you would know when to retract your words.

[Anonymous No.4258080]

>>4257876
>, and the penchant for eating squirming, living things is just shocking.
I am an American born and bred. I have no problem with the squirmy stuff.
You are just whitebread sissy from god knows where.
Go join PETA

[Anonymous No.4258169]

I've eaten a lot of weird things, and frankly I just dont like frog.

Secondly, that half a from walking around on my plate is fucking weird. Not down.

[Anonymous No.4258175]

>>4257942

You know japan has animal funerals for dogs and cats that died during scientific testing and for clams and fish that die in the motors of boats.

Just because we as a culture feel better about eating something only when it is mutilated beyond recognition, doesn't mean everyone else has to adhere by the same standards.

I think there's more respect to eating things fresh like that because at least you acknowledge the animal as a something that was once living.

Also
>I don't like the way asians eat things
>I'm right because asians were rude to me

yeah ok

[Anonymous No.4258297]

It's not much different than eating any other animal

[Anonymous No.4258298]

>>4258080
You know, you really only make yourself look like a moron who tries way too hard to impress others when you call someone a pussy.

[Anonymous No.4258300]

>>4258175

This is dubious at best, anon. Someone, somewhere, might practice this... but Japan as a country? Has little to no animal cruelty laws.

Source: I used to live there. I never saw anybody holding a funeral for any of the massive number of roadkilled cats, tanuki, etc. Let alone fish or laboratory animals.

[Anonymous No.4258340]

>has porn where frogs are blended and poured into the pussies of screaming starlets
>normal

I take solace in the fact that had they won WWII they'd probably be doing the same shit, but with Phillipino kids or political prisoners or something.

[Sceak !!LciZj2frsW6 No.4258357]

>>4257456

That's just wrong.

[Anonymous No.4258360]

Lol play this suffering from billy talent while watching this video.

For bonus effects play this suffering 7 seconds then start OPs video, it a work of art

[Anonymous No.4258363]

>>4258297
except for it being alive and looking back at you while you eat it.

[Anonymous No.4258367]

>>4258175
Funerals are mostly for the company to the deceased in human culture anyway.
I can see that applied to dogs with some logic but the later examples are fucking hilarious. And I doubt even the former would be common at all.

Again, the funerals you've mentioned mean so little I'm surprised you mentioned them at all.

I'm living in Australia at the moment and there is literally endless news of Japanese sailors illegally entering foreign waters and slaughtering whales despite many of their chief neighbors constantly demanding an end to it.
And they try to weasel out of it with excuses such as using the bodies for research purposes, despite the whaling being constant.

[Anonymous No.4258372]

>>4257952
>>4257948
>>4257931
>>4257930

[Anonymous No.4258375]

>>4258300
>i didn't see it so it doesn't happen

[Anonymous No.4258379]

>>4258367
Additionally worth noting is the fact that within the last twenty years or so, Japan is one of the biggest culprits of the illegal ivory trade.

[Anonymous No.4258381]

>>4258372

Those guys shirts were pretty funny too.

[Anonymous No.4258385]

>>4258375

I've never seen it or heard of it EVER. I think you're making this shit up, honestly.

[Anonymous No.4258387]

>>4258367

Please tell that faggot Paul Watson to fuck off. Whaling is fucking awful, but I'm sick of seeing him and his little media whoring band of hippies prancing around pretending to be heroes by causing even more trouble (which reinforces the nations desire to keep whaling),and then b'aawing when they violate international maritime law and get arrested.

[Anonymous No.4258389]

>>4258340
They did much testing on human subjects during the war, on amputation and such.

They were also responsible for around half of the total deaths during the the war; far outshining the deaths caused by Nazi Germany.
There's a video on youtube somewhere of a Japanese speaking German tourist attending an event to do with honoring Japanese soldiers during the war. The tourist commented that were such sentiment displayed in Germany then it could be seen as cause for arrest.
He was in turn; swiftly arrested beneath shouts of condemnation of Germany's crime's and denial of Japan's.

[Anonymous No.4258395]

>>4258387
Oh yes they're a bunch of trouble-making scoundrels; I agree.

I don't really care too much about whaling, my problem is chiefly with the hypocrisy and the plundering of foreign waters.
Somewhat relevant to point the topic out in this thread based on how some conversation went.

[Anonymous No.4258402]

>>4257679

2/10 made me reply

[Anonymous No.4258613]

I don't see anything wrong with this. It is getting eaten. Would it really be that much different if they waited for it to stop moving?

I don't know if I could dine on it or not, myself, just because I'm not used to my meal staring back at me with an expression that seems to say 'So this is it. This is how I die. I should have gone to college like mother said I should have'.

[Anonymous No.4258647]

>>4257876
>Watch a video about a small amount of people who have tried this
>Make blanket statements about an entire country

[Anonymous No.4258652]

>>4258340
You're as bad as /v/ when it comes to knowing about foreign countries.

>I saw some fucked up shit once, so this entire country must be involved in this shit!
>Thinking Japan is some kind of wonderland of cartoons, future tech, and fetish porn
>Implying they don't keep all of that shit wrapped up in a few select cities

[Anonymous No.4258698]

>>4257456
not personally no, but i'm not incredibly bothered by it either, it's a frog. obviously it'd be more unsettling if it were a screaming thrashing bird or mammal

[Anonymous No.4258703]

>>4257876
If you think Japan is that bad you should visit the rest of asia.

[Anonymous No.4258714]

Fucking japan.

[Anonymous No.4258723]

>>4258652
It's not just a few select cities, you can only get frog sashimi in one bar in the whole country.

[Anonymous No.4258724]

>>4257835
Don't be so retarded to judge an entire people just by one video. Compared to most groups on Earth, the Japanese are great

[Anonymous No.4258746]

I don't really like the taste of frog, kind of tastes like nothing at all. So I probably wouldn't order it.

this is based on 2 different occasions by the way, so I could be wrong about the taste.

Also I don't really like it when my food starts winking at me.

[Anonymous No.4258751]

Two nukes were not enough.

Fucking savages.

[Anonymous No.4258784]

>>4258724
>Compared to most groups on Earth, the Japanese are great
>Compared to most groups on Earth, the Japanese are great
>Compared to most groups on Earth, the Japanese are great
>Compared to most groups on Earth, the Japanese are great

[Anonymous No.4258792]

that looks pretty delicous i don't really get the butthurt about it

[Anonymous No.4258805]

Dismembering a frog does not make anyone a savage.
ITS A FUCKING FROG YOU STUPID CUNTS

[Anonymous No.4258806]

I'd probably eat it, looks pretty good and I'm willing to accept the customs of serving recently killed animals.

But OP's picture, man. I'll feel guilty for the night.

[Anonymous No.4258819]

Waiter! There's a frog in my food!

[Anonymous No.4258828]

>>4258724
Actually (and I know it's hard to tell, because there's no ID's and such), I lived there for two months when I travelled around the world.

[Anonymous No.4258831]

[Anonymous No.4258832]

>>4257737
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

You're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.4258834]

>>4258039
Hey, all I'm saying is I spent four years in foreign countries, and the only area where I found a lot of things that made me question their values was in the Indochina region, mostly china, japan, and korea. I'm pretty confident in saying I have more experience than you in this. what have you experienced firsthand that suggests the opposite?

[Anonymous No.4258856]

I don't think I could eat something that was still alive, also I don't think I could eat amphibians or molluscs in general. They look slimy and it puts me off. I'd have no problem with most mammals and birds, and I'd give reptile a go and certain insects.

[Anonymous No.4258860]

>>4258832
you're not actually trying to make a point, are you

[Anonymous No.4258863]

>>4258175
>Citation needed
I cant really argue that, as I didnt check out and labs, but I can say that the clam and fish thing is almost unheard of there. There's a reason Japan is still so into whaling.

>>4258647
Read my posts, I spent two months in japan, and about a year in the region.

>>4258723
There's still similar things out there, even if it isnt a frog specifically.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that there's a lot of things that bothered me in the region, and I was pretty bothered by some of it. Cultural differences, I get, but there are certain things that are just pretty fucked up. I mean, kids in north america sometimes blow up frogs with firecrackers, and that's messed up, and I would say this is orders of magnitude worse than that. It's no genocide, but it's still wrong (operating under the assumption frogs feel pain. The discovery that they dont is much more recent than the practice of eating shit as it squirms and flails around)

[Anonymous No.4258869]

>>4257727
>Oh no! He called me out for being retarded! I'll just call him edgy and that'll instantly negate anything he said!

[Anonymous No.4258871]

>>4258834
>I'm pretty confident in saying I have more experience than you in this.


Yes but you are a squeamish ,overly sensitive cunt so your experiences mean dick.
If you are going to go all cry baby over a fucking frog then your opinion is worthless.

[Anonymous No.4258874]

>>4258869
I never understood that whole calling people a pussy thing. It's just being a dick for no reason.

>Inb4 where do you think we are

[idf motherfuckers No.4258877]

fucking barbaric.

[Anonymous No.4258879]

>>4258871
Not really. I hunt and stuff, and dress my own deer, so I don't think I'm any of those things. I'm not bothered specifically by the frog, it's just one more small thing that further cements my feelings towards the japanese culture. Sick burn though.

[Anonymous No.4258880]

>>4258863
>the discovery that they don't [feel pain]
Uh, is this a discovery form last week? Last time I checked vertebrates like frogs feel pain quite similar to us.

[Anonymous No.4258885]

>>4258880
Are you sure? I was under the impression they register "pain", but dont feel it in an unpleasant way like we do. More of a reflex to jump away. Could be wrong though, and as I google it, there's a bit of a divide. Oh well, I'll pretend they dont so this video doesnt bug me

[idf motherfuckers No.4258890]

>>4257937
>He went from "frogs don't feel pain," to "frogs don't feel pain as we generally know it," citing receptors and reactions. Also knowing that not all frogs are the same, and that the a specific species (probably in this video) actually does have the capacity for pain like we know it. I thought it was pretty fascinating.

bullshit.

you don't know if other people feel pain like you do. this is the qualia problem and unsolvable by science.

Thus you have as much reason to believe other humans experience pain as you have to believe frogs feel pain.

I think other humans feel pain and I also think frogs feel pain.

This is why scientists should have a basic understanding of logic and epistemology.

[Anonymous No.4258905]

>>4258890
well they came up with this thing called science so we don't all have to rely on 'i feel'. suit yourself though.

[idf motherfuckers No.4258909]

>>4258905

fucking hell read my post.

the feel part has nothing to do with the argument, its just a personal statement.

It is a logical fact though that because of the qualia problem you can never say what a other human or animal really feels, you can only observe its reactions.

[idf motherfuckers No.4258914]

ok to make it simpler for the morons:

you know how there is this funny thought experiment that what you see as red might be blue for another person. But since everything that you see as red appears as what you would call "blue", for him "blue" is red. Nobody can ever know or prove that and we might all see colours in a different way.

And its the same with pain. You can't see into other peoples head and prove that they actually have pain. You only see the output (physiological reaction, what they say, what they do etc.)

So yeah, of course I don't know if a frog feels pain like me, no shit sherlock. But I also don't know if a human feels pain like me.

So if you use this against frogs you should also use it against all other humans to be consistent.

[Anonymous No.4258919]

>>4258909
that's fascinating and all, saying we can't know how it feels for someone else, epistemological or whatever. if you start with that you can't have a stance on anything that involves anything except yourself though, it's really impractical.
i just read the part titled Neuroanatomy here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_in_fish
it's just more relevant to what we're discussing

[idf motherfuckers No.4258930]

>>4258919
read again, think about what I wrote.

I can't argue with you if you don't understand what I am saying.

No neurological discovery ever can solve the qualia problem, thats a priori impossible.

But if we use "pain" as certain neurological patterns we DO find it in humans and frogs, so on that basis it can be said that frogs feel pain.

What I am getting at is we can say frogs feel pain under that definition and make hypothesis out of that and falsify them etc. but we can never say that a frog or another human being has the same feeling of pain in his conscious (this is called qualia) as you do when these neurological patterns arise.

So that pseudo-scientific bullcrap that "biologist" garbled makes no sense. He said frogs have the opiod recepters etc. necessery for pain but we can't know if they have the same qualia. As I explained many times now, that is not a useful argument.

[Anonymous No.4258966]

>>4258930
i think the type of pain that's releveant to this discussion is a physical, neurological state, a hard fact if you so will. different from 'a feeling' or anything pertaining to the consciousness. yes, the 'neurological patterns' as such if you will.
so the problem of these patterns, receptors etc comes way before any epistemological concerns in my mind. check out the link I posted earlier.

[idf motherfuckers No.4258970]

>>4258966
uurgh it hurts

sry I don't know how to make it any easier

[Anonymous No.4259001]

>>4258970
i think you should track back a bit and re-read both my responses and the explanation by the other guy. he was pretty clear about there being differences in the neurological anatomy. i can't really help you if you decide to skip the points made by that guy and my wiki link and resort to your a priori logic.

[idf motherfuckers No.4259043]

>>4259001

Fish react the same way as humans do when confronted with pain. When given opiates they react similar as humans (showing less reaction to pain).

This alone is enough to make it as likely they experience pain as humans do. And their absence of a neocortex is irrelevant to this, because of two reasons:

1. the connection between consciousness and neocortex can not be made, because of the qualia problem (pain as qualia argument)

2. the mere neurological tasks the cortex and other higher structures have regarding pain are obviously located differently in fish because they behave the same way when confronted with pain.
Iit is known that different animals locate tasks differently from humans. For example in birds enlarged parts of the striatum correlate with what humans do in the prefrontal cortex. As your article said "different species can use different brain structures and systems to handle the same functions."
(pain as neurological pattern argument)

[Anonymous No.4259124]

>>4258834
All I'm saying is you're a fucking retard. I'm pretty confident in saying that I have a lifetime of experience of what Western countries have to say about cultural diversity. What I have experienced firsthand has about as much evidential oomph in this crap spar as your bullshit anecdotes. How long are you going to prolong your embarrassing apologetics?

[Anonymous No.4259193]

>>4259124
cry moar weeb

[Anonymous No.4259197]

>>4259193
>cry moar weeb
eat shit dgfkr

[Anonymous No.4259208]

[Anonymous No.4259210]

>>4259208

Don't forget to put citrus in his eyes

[Anonymous No.4259217]

>>4259197
sik burn skrub

[Anonymous No.4259224]

>>4259217
touche skip

[Anonymous No.4259234]

>everyone whinging about an already dead frog

Am I the only non-faggot here that seriously wouldn't eat that just because I don't think raw frog would taste good?
I wonder if you guys plan on making any trips to the savanna anytime soon to slap the shit out of some lions for tearing apart and eating a live zebra instead of suffocating it mercifully first.

[Anonymous No.4259236]

>>4257827
>Plenty of creatures have to suffer in order to bring that clean styrofoam tray of meat to your grocery refrigerators. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't real.
This 100%. I'd eat it. If I gave enough of a fuck to be weirded out by this I'd be a vegetarian.

[Anonymous No.4259245]

>>4259236
There's a difference between being killed and being gutted, skinned, and eaten alive though. I love meat but I don't support needless suffering. Kill the thing quickly and then I'd be fine to eat it... well, maybe not in this case, I can't imagine raw frog being very tasty but I might be wrong.

[Anonymous No.4259253]

>>4259234
people aren't wild animals though. Not anymore. dolphins rape, doesnt mean people can.

[Anonymous No.4259262]

>>4259245
I think it's beautiful. The juxtaposition of life and death; the frog being on the border of two worlds, reminding us all as we eat of the inevitability of death and the transitory nature of everything. The frog temporarily existing in that midway state.

I don't know about if I'd actually like it -- I've never had raw frog -- but I'd certainly give it a try and appreciate it for what it is.

[idf motherfuckers No.4259263]

>>4259262
edgy alert.

[Anonymous No.4259267]

>>4259245
yeah, protip, frogs are incapable of feeling pain in any way you'd recognize.

[Anonymous No.4259269]

>>4259262
go back to watching matyrs, you cunt

[Anonymous No.4259273]

>>4259267
Pretty much. I'm sure they feel something, but they don't respond to it like social mammals. Many higher creatures think about it, and the pain inhibits them, probably to keep them from doing more damage to themselves. But I've fished with frogs and I can honestly tell you that they give no fucks you thread a hook throat their throat and skull. Sit them down and they'll behave just as they normally would, only with a reed-hook completely impaling them, looks strange as hell.

[Anonymous No.4259292]

>>4259263
>>4259269
>not finding beauty in everything

Untermensch alert.

[idf motherfuckers No.4259295]

>>4259273
>>4259292

fuck this thread

[sage No.4259496]

B'AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
THOSE EVIL JAPS MANG THEY KILLED A WIDDLE FROG ;_;
I DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THE FOOD I INTAKE AND HOW ITS TREATED
WE KILL ANIMALS HERE BUT ITS MORE HUMAANE
FORGET THE FACT THAT MOST OF THE ANIMALS HERE ARE STILL ALIVE WHEN THEY GET HOOKED ON A MACHINE TO GO THROUGH A GRINDER AND HUNG FROM THE CEILING TO HAVE THEIR THROATS SLIT WHILE THEY FLAIL AROUND
ITS ONLY TEMPORARY
HIROSHIMA BOMBINGS BEST DAY OF MY LIFE
FUCKING JAPS THEYRE SO CRUEL ;_; ;_; ;_;

[Anonymous No.4259706]

>>4259496
>Caps lock and straw man arguments are the best way to make a point!

[Anonymous No.4259725]

>>4257456

Yessir!

[Anonymous No.4259731]

>>4259725

Woo-eeah! Dadgum wut wrap bacon 'round em, throw them lil' fuckers on the grill, breakfast uv champeens 'n shit, true as the day is lawng.

[Anonymous No.4259749]

[Anonymous No.4259813]

Japan is a sick sad place. I don't give a fuck if frogs can feel pain and the two knobs debating this are fucking annoying. I fucking hate Asians of every stripe, most Africans, and all those brown skin fucks in between. They will never understand the essential decency of the white man's culture. Well, except for a few psychopaths. Can't have everything.

>but but jews!
They were worked to death, not genocided systematically

>but but the noble native americans!
That was the way of the world. The age of conquest and discovery is over

>but but the cultural relativism!
Fuck that, some things are just fucking wrong.

>back to /pol/
Nope, I am quite liberal in my views

Fuck the mud races.

[Anonymous No.4259824]

>>4259813
2/10 made me reply

[Anonymous No.4259825]

>>4259813

Wait, so... would you eat the frog-sashimi or not?

[Anonymous No.4259831]

>>4259253
>people aren't wild animals though
This never means anything. You're avoiding admitting the fact that this happens regardless if it's done by a human or an animal. Life and nature are extremely cruel, and even if you want to argue over this frog, it's just another frog or fish or person getting theirs somewhere anyway.
Whatcha gonna do about it? Oh right, nothing.

[Anonymous No.4259863]

>>4257659
oh my god. i had no idea morena baccarin went blond and got a pixie cut.
>icantcontrolthisboner.jpg

[Anonymous No.4259868]

>>4259831
>whatcha gonna do about it

Of course it means something. We're more intelligent, and possess empathy, which no other animal has. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard than wild animals, because we're MORE than wild animals. Like I said, try using the dolphin thing to justify raping someone.

[Anonymous No.4259884]

>>4259868
>We should hold ourselves to a higher standard than wild animals
We ~could~ but we don't, moralfag. People still lie, cheat, murder, rape, assault, and do all sorts of fun immoral things for our own sake or pleasure. Stop being naive. My bets are on you haven't done a single thing in your life to stop "frog sushi."

[Anonymous No.4259890]

>>4259868
>Like I said, try using the dolphin thing to justify raping someone.

Comparing rape to eating something. You're hilarious.
>yfw typing out that shitty analogy

[Anonymous No.4259904]

>>4259890
In that they are both something normal in the animal world, but cruel in the civilized world. Not saying they're equivalent, just the same idea

[Anonymous No.4259909]

>>4259884
True, because I really dont care all that much. I think its wrong, but I don't much care. This entire thing started because I said the Japanese were by and large bad people. I dont stay up at night worrying about the poor animals, or anything like that. Fuck, let them keep eating the frogs, I'll still sleep just as soundly, but I'll sleep still not liking their culture.

[Anonymous No.4259917]

>>4259868
>and possess empathy, which no other animal has

Every accurate, peer-reviewed study has shown other animals do indeed possess empathy.

[Anonymous No.4259919]

>1) cooked frog tastes a lot like chicken, and the idea of eating raw chicken freaks me out
>2) i don't like it when anything i'm not going to fuck or fight looks me in the eyes too long, let alone my food.
>3) i've caught frogs in the wild and the thought of having their slimy filthy pondscum ridden skin next to the raw meat puts me off.
>4) i don't get off on pain. just kill it dead-dead.

if it was just the meat, yeah i'd take a bite and clear the plate if i liked it.

[Anonymous No.4259920]

>>4259825
I would not because raw frog tastes like shit. Asians just can't understand how to cook. They would rather slurp it down still alive or bury it in the ground til it rots. Fucking lazy cunts. Goddamn I fucking hate those yellow greasy fucks.

[Anonymous No.4259923]

Suddenly /ck/ was a youtubes comment section.

[Anonymous No.4259944]

>>4259923
Hey bro, One last thing, check 'em.

[Anonymous No.4259951]

>>4259944

[Anonymous No.4259973]

>>4259917
Woops, well I'll admit I was wrong on that one. I learned that as a kid, and just kind of accepted it without ever looking into it.

[Anonymous No.4259974]

>>4259944

[Anonymous No.4259993]

>>4259813
>quite liberal
>massive bigot
lel

[Anonymous No.4259999]

>>4259944

[Anonymous No.4260019]

Would most definitely try it, must be god tier fresh meat.

>164 replies
Won't even bother to read this thread.

[Anonymous No.4260039]

>>4259993
You hear the one about the giraffe?
It's probably way over your head.

[Anonymous No.4260051]

what if in another life you come back as a frog

[Anonymous No.4260067]

>>4260051
Then I hope a hot as fuck asain chick eats me alive.

[Anonymous No.4260089]

I won't eat something unless it's dead, I'd feel like the worst person ever.

[Anonymous No.4260364]

>>4259706

>taking someone with sage in all fields seriously
Please stop bumping the thread.

[Anonymous No.4260373]

>>4259999

holy mother of quads

[Anonymous No.4260416]

>>4260373
Welcome to the rest of 4chan where no one gives a shit about gets. That's only on /b/

[Anonymous No.4260471]

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[Anonymous No.4260540]

Is this an eating live animals thread then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNhsDn-YLbI

[Anonymous No.4260556]

>>4259999
>>4259944

[Anonymous No.4260607]

>not washing down your raw frog with a delicious lizard sake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOUnjB6SPxE

[Anonymous No.4260652]

>>4260607
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOUnjB6SPxE
>the beating heart of a frog
10/10 would eat

[Anonymous No.4260662]

>>4260540
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNhsDn-YLbI
Oh my god that looks good!