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/ck/ - Food & Cooking

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3883812 No.3883812[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Can someone give me a link to the study that was done that apparently demonstrated that organic food is actually not statistically healthier for you than non-organic food?

>> No.3883853

You don't need a study to know that. Just say to yourself, I know that organic food is a gigantic ripoff meant to give rich white people a reason to go to clean supermarkets.

>> No.3883860

I have seen that study, but its also just common sense. You would have to be retarded to actually believe organic food was inherently more nutritious

>> No.3883863

i personally just buy the best looking produce... sometimes its the organic stuff sometimes it isnt

>> No.3883874

>>3883812
Please don't fool yourself that just because a product has the term 'organic' on it, it is healthy to eat. Do you realize how many organic ice creams, brownies, cakes, ect are in the market? Organic is just a certification on the manufacture process/ growing process and has nothing to do with the health value of the item.

>> No.3883879

>>3883874
>Do you realize how many organic ice creams, brownies, cakes, ect are in the market
You realize thats not what we are talking about right

We are discussing the fact that normal and "organic" versions of the same product are nutritiously identical

>> No.3883882

I see sites that have listings of supposedly healthy foods ( that consist of nothing but three different kinds of "healthy" fats and one or two kinds of sugar). People have a funny definition of what's considered healthy.

I mean, such items aren't necessarily _bad_ for you, but I wouldn't fool myself into thinking it's healthy.

>> No.3883883

>>3883860
Why?

>> No.3883888

Does anyone who actually knows what they're talking about really claim organic food is better for those who eat it?

The point is it's a better way to produce food for the land in the long term. Heavy use of chemicals in agriculture is not really a great idea. I'm sure some are fine, just as I'm sure that using lots is not.

>> No.3883897

>>3883888
well organic farms still use chemicals that cam be just as bad, its just that they are "natural" chemicals

and there simply is not enough arable land in the world to feed the entire population "organically", people who buy organic food are just pissing in the face of centuries of science and innovation

>> No.3883901

>>3883897
I really don't think we need to have a discussion about "natural" - this is a waste of time for everyone. If you're putting shed loads of chemicals into the land which is clearly having negative impacts further down, this is not clever.

I agree we need clever ways to feed the whole of the human population. I'd suggest GM and less animal products as more feasible routes.

As to pissing in the face of centuries of science and innovation. Yawn, not everything humanity has come up with has been a good idea. The notion of 'progress', of continual improvement and constant bettering is a relatively recent, very narrow, and entirely moronic way of looking at the world.

>> No.3883913

Organic and organic are 2 different things. On the one hand there's natural produce, and on the other hand there's produce which meets state requirements for the label "natural produce".

Why is that important? Because you can have corn from right next to an open sewer (like the highways into LA or Brussels) that are "organically grown, according to the law". And they have nothing whatsoever to do with the real organic deal. Wake up.

>> No.3883915

>>3883913
You have to pay to be certified organic in the UK.

Instead you can be 'chemical free'....

Stupid

>> No.3883957

The reason people it organic foods is because of the shitty preservatives, pesticides, and growth hormones shitty farmers put in their food. You would have to be a fucking moron that couldn't move onto third grade to believe that organic means more nutrients.

>> No.3883963

>Implying you can trust these studies when 88 percent of studies can't be replicated

http://www.businessinsider.com/reproducibility-initiative-study-replication-2012-8

Also, I specifically remember the people that produce non-organic food funded, and were a big part of this study. Just saying.

>> No.3883992

>>3883901
>I agree we need clever ways to feed the whole of the human population

But that's wrong, asshole. What we really need to do is find a way to keep the human population at sustainable levels. If India and Africa could do what China does there would be no problem.

Over population is not a western problem, on the contrary, western birthrates are actually below replacement levels, which is terrible and one reason why lefties are allowed to ship in so much wonderful diversity.

>> No.3884001

>>3883957

But it does if the farming is done sustainably, which is a must if you are truly farming organic. Plants get their nutrients out of the earth and if you don't give the land time to recover the plants won't grow properly without aggressive fertilizer and will have less nutrients in them.

You don't seem to know much about farming despite your arrogant attitude.

>> No.3884005

>>3883957
>You would have to be a fucking moron that couldn't move onto third grade to believe that organic means more nutrients.

Or you could just be ignorant to the detail that organic farming does more in the way of replenishing the soil so that the plants naturally thrive rather than the non-organic method of what I can just hardly remember to be some combination of two or three ingredients (chemicals) which give the plant a nice appearance and fruit, but lack in the same nutrients of the naturally replenished ones.

So there's that too...

>> No.3884055 [DELETED] 

Great OP
Now I want some organic foods

>> No.3884074

>>3883963
Let's see them replicate the study about studies not being replicated.

>> No.3884118

>>3883992
>if India and Africa do what China did
Create a 10:1 Male:Female demographic? The chinese are going to die out because of that asinine law. That or they buy out every mailorderbride company in the world.

I am a farmer, so I know a few things about "Organic". I can't use chemical fertilizer, but I can use animal shit. So rather than using efficent, clean fertilizer on my fields, I need thousands of tons of stinking shit. Fuck that. I HAVE to ignore field rotation, an important development in land sustainability, to keep up with non-organic farms. In fact, I need all the land I can get to compete with their output, so I clearcut all the nearby forest to make more fields. My cattle are lean due to not feeding them fattening, nutritious GM feed. They are also sickly because I can't give them antibiotics, so a good portion of my herd gets sick and dies. Thats a lot of wasted money. So I take the price out of the remaining meat, jacking up prices. But wait, I can't preserve my food that I send to market, so if it doesn't sell quick it goes bad. More wasted money, higher prices. Oh, and I can't be humane about butchering them and shoot them in the head, killing them instantly. No, I have to stab it and let it bleed to death, listening to it's cries for help. Fuck you in the neck, I don't like watching animals suffer. Also, the meat tastes bad because I let it get soaked with blood.

Overall, being organic makes life harder, is harder on my wallet for only a slight increase in profit. Oh and I just destroyed the land by trying to compete with people with better technology who don't damage their land. Whoever told you shitbags that farmers hate their land, cattle, crop and you should be beaten, I have every reason to care for all of it, because if I don't, I starve.

>> No.3884156

Your bullshit is detectable from miles away.

>> No.3884232

I like how the study OP is talking about mentioned conventional farming being a big contributor of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, whereas organic farming is not.

Of course, the press and most idiots missed this part.

>> No.3884245

>>3884118
>So rather than using efficent, clean fertilizer on my fields, I need thousands of tons of stinking shit.
Efficient? You mean using potash, a mineral that is skyrocketing in price, that is mined in Saskatchewan? Yeah, real efficient.

>Fuck that. I HAVE to ignore field rotation, an important development in land sustainability, to keep up with non-organic farms.
Corporate farms ignore crop rotation.

>In fact, I need all the land I can get to compete with their output, so I clearcut all the nearby forest to make more fields.
B.S.

>My cattle are lean due to not feeding them fattening, nutritious GM feed.
lol okay sure bro, cattle were lean and starving up until 30 years ago.

>They are also sickly because I can't give them antibiotics, so a good portion of my herd gets sick and dies.
Therapeutic antibiotics are allowed according to FDA organic labeling, there are some stipulations though. The VAST majority of antibiotics used in agriculture are non-therapeutic.

>But wait, I can't preserve my food that I send to market, so if it doesn't sell quick it goes bad.
The meat you buy has preservatives in it?

>Oh, and I can't be humane about butchering them and shoot them in the head, killing them instantly. No, I have to stab it and let it bleed to death, listening to it's cries for help.
Animals do not die instantly when you shoot them in the head.

>Also, the meat tastes bad because I let it get soaked with blood.
Nope.

>> No.3884293

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/249848.php

This study came out this month and was on the news here.

The thing is I still believe organic food is healthier because you're not ingesting any pesticides and other crap. However I never myself would by it because it's so not worth it. To pay 4 times as much for something that really is just a tiny bit more beneficial to you is not worth it. It won't taste any better either.

>> No.3885232

>>3884293
If you can afford it, buying quality food is always worth it.

>> No.3885234

>>3884232

I also like the part about how the study discusses how organic farming has a much lower yield per unit area. The press didn't discuss that either.

>> No.3885244

>>3885234
Yes, because in N. America food quantity is a much more pressing issue than antibiotic resistant pathogens.

>hurrrrr

>> No.3885254

>>3885244

You're right, it is a pressing issue. Yield has a direct impact on price. There are many people in this country that cannot afford food.

>> No.3885286

>>3885254
>There are many people in this country that cannot afford food.
Poor people are typically fat in America.

Just saying.

>> No.3885294

>>3885286

Many of them are, just not all of them.

>> No.3885305

>>3885294
Well, antibiotic resistance pathogens are a more serious risk for EVERYBODY, whereas a tiny fraction of the population being hungry is not.

They just see themselves as victims and get more than enough welfare to buy food.

>> No.3885308

>>3885305

You may believe so, but this is not your decision to make for anyone other than yourself.

>> No.3885324

>>3885308
Pfft, no. No no. Story time of a ~poor American family~. I'm "friends" (I use that term loosely) with this one chick because I'm friends with her boyfriend because he's chill but she's a royal cunt. She refuses to get a job for reasons (aka, lazy fat ass) and basically neglects her daughter (her boyfriend takes better care of her). Due to this, they are on welfare and food stamps. I used to occasionally go to her parent's house (yes, she still lived with her parents at 30 with a child) for a tabletop game my friends and I would do (her boyfriend was involved). I remember hearing them talking about going to the store. With their food stamps.

They come back with, I shit you not, 6 lobster tails and 5 cuts of filet mignon. They also brought back a shit ton more food. They had roughly 600 bucks worth of food. I work full-time and I can barely afford to get a couple pounds of ground beef and a bag of frozen chicken. People on food stamps are allowed to get almost fucking anything, regardless of if they would be able to afford it on a regular job or not. The system is fucked.

>> No.3885329

>>3885324

I agree with you that the system is fucked, and your story is a classic example of it.

However, there are other people who aren't on food stamps and cannot feed themselves either. I'm not saying that we should give them more welfare, I'm saying that it's stupid to switch over all food to organic.

Think about it, using your own example. You work, yet you can barely afford a couple pounds of ground beef. What would happen to you if that cheap ground beef suddenly went up in price by a factor of 4? How much could you afford then? That would be the consequence if everything was shifted to Organic-only.

Also, if you are poor, why the fuck are you buying chicken breasts in bags? Whole chickens are less expensive.

>> No.3885342

>>3885329
Ah, I misunderstood your post, then. I'm glad we agree on these points then. The point I was trying to make was the exact one you made.
>However, there are other people who aren't on food stamps and cannot feed themselves either.
Also, where I'm at, the chicken tenderloin pieces frozen in bag are a lot cheaper than a whole chicken. I may just be shopping at the wrong places, but California is just fucking expensive in general.

>> No.3885360

If you haven't worked on any family farm, I can tell you, you really don't know shit about the agriculture industry. If lawmakers had the experience the industry would be totally different.

Yes organic cert. is a bullshit red-herring marketing ploy used mostly by the industrialists to mark-up their processed products like chips and icecreame. Granted, there is a huge differnce between "organic" cheese and velveeta. There is very little difference between wholefoods produce and walmart. the difference is about 1/3 the chemicals.

I've worked at many different farms and I've seen what works. The most successful farm I worked at for about 6 months and it was by far my favorite. This CSA farm was feeding 200 families, had a gross income of $180,000 for 9 months, and only 7 acres planted with just about everything you could want to cook a meal.
>only 2 hired hands(not illegal)
>refuses organic cert. because the standards her are far superior.
>No harvesting equipment so very little overhead.
>refuses subsidies in any form..

Farms like that can only be a model the proto-typical business that can effectively raise a community out of the debt shit-hole so many are suffering in rural america.

Farms like that are proving that less than 1% can feed the population on small amounts of land while reducing the debt by refusing subsidies.

Its farmers like that whose feet you should kiss.

>> No.3885363

>>3884118
=full of shit

>> No.3885372

>>3884118

Yea either full of shit or bat shit retarded.

However, I have seen herdsmen in TX during the summer drought, whining that they don't have enough hay for the winter because its god's wrath, and they have twice as many cows as their land can maximumly handle, and they admit this. Not even organic cert. just retarded. We have unwittingly placed our food production in the hands of crooks imbeciles. Same with politics and wallstreet, I guess.

>> No.3885374
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3885374

>he thinks you eat organic for nutritional reasons!

>> No.3885383
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3885383

>I'll finally look at 4chans other boards besides tech and game related...
>come to /ck/ for first time...
>this is first thread I see...
>mfw I am about to leave...

>> No.3885429

>>3885286

And produce costing a shitload certainly doesn't help that.

>> No.3885610

>>3885429

Well, produce isn't all that expensive when you buy stuff that's in season and grown relatively locally.

Poor people's problem is that the vast majority of them eat such a poor diet that no matter how much your eat you'll still be hungry. Think about it, if you ate 300kcals of a cookie (about 1 cookie), you'd be much hungrier than if you ate 300kcals of a chicken breast (about 1 breast_ or 300 kcals of eggs (about 4 large eggs).

So, the problem is they eat shit-tier foods, not that veggies are expensive. I mean, for fucks sake, I make less than $8.00 an hour working about 30 hours a week (that I pay a car payment, insurance, phone/water/electric/internet bills, gym membership and groceries with), have student loans (that pay rent and for school) totalling out to about 25k USD per year and I can afford to be an amature bodybuilder.

It's a lack of nutrition education, not a matter of cost.

>> No.3885621

>>3885610
People say "OMG I work 40 hours a week and don't have time to cook and can only afford fast, cheap fast food because I don't have enough money!!!" as if it is a valid excuse.

>> No.3885637
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3885637

the big difference is organic meat.

it's quality is measurably better than mass produced meat.

>> No.3885638

>>3885637
Any small-batch food item is better than mass-produced counterparts.

>> No.3885641

>>3885621

When people tell me that, I say that I work 30 hours a week, go to class 17 hours a week, study 10 hours a week, commute 5 hours a week, work out 6 hours a week, and I still have time to make homecooked meals and go out with friends on the weekends.

The trick is to do the time-heavy cooking on a day that you have off and then put it in the fridge. On sundays I make enough meat to last 7 days, make enough yogurt to last 7 days (shit's time consuming to make from scratch, but oh so much cheaper than buying greek yogurt at the store), and make enough beans to last for the week. Since most of that I don't actually have to babysit, I can do laundry and study or what not.

>> No.3885645

>>3885637

>all meat is made up of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen
>all meat is organic

Retard that spends extra money on food that uses slightly less chemical in it's production detected

>> No.3885650

>>3885645
you have apparently absolutely no idea what organic food is about.
it's not the same thing they do with vegetables, retard.

>> No.3885653

>>3885650
organic meat* not organic food

>> No.3885658

>>3885650

You're ignoring my point that all meat is organic

>> No.3885659

>>3885645
Oh look, the autistic guy that thinks pretending to not understand a concept (because the word happens to have several meanings) means he is intelligent.

Good stuff. Especially since the etymology of the word, "organic" is not actually chemistry-related.

And organic, in the definition you were using, does not include nitrogen.

>> No.3885660

OP is a trolling prodigy.

>> No.3885665

>>3885658
confirmed for retarded.

you are ignoring the fact that there is a difference between organic meat and that crap that you can get in every supermarket which is quality wise basically pure garbage.

it's not my obligation to inform you.
you can do that yourself.
moron

>> No.3885663

>>3885658
No it isn't. Organic has multiple definitions.