/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.20347031]

food is so expensive nowadays and adhd makes it hard to organize cheap meals that also have enough calories to stay at a healthy weight.
I've been considering something like making a lot of fried rice meals with lard, which is cheap and high calorie.
Is lard particularly unhealthy compared to vegetable oils like olive or avocado? I never hear about it being used in cooking nowadays.

[Anonymous No.20347094]

For the best results cost wise buy a bag of beef tallow. It's the most healthy. If you can afford it, coconut oil that is obviously virgin is good too. However with lard it's not usually healthy unless you render it yourself. Most shelf stable lard is awful. If you are having trouble with food I would get to the food bank. They give me more than I can eat at many of those places.

In the worst case you can fry the rice in butter too.

[Anonymous No.20347113]

>adhd
>attention deficit
lol
I like how part of the definition of "attention deficit" disorder is paying attention to things you like lmao
Hyperfocus, they call it. It's a fucking sham "disorder" and sham diagnosis.
I've seen ADHD people sit still for fucking hours and hours watching Lord of the Rings and shit. Guess you can't pay attention unless it's some nerd shit lol
Fuck you, you fat, lazy, disinterested cunt.
Lard is used in Eastern Europe and mainland Southern Italy, particularly Naples. No food is inherently healthy or unhealthy. It's the portion size that fucks you. Eat less. Move more. End of.

[Anonymous No.20347250]

>>20347113
ok thanks for your opinion dr. chud

[Anonymous No.20347433]

>>20347031
>>20347250
>adhd
>means you can’t plan
Fucking failure, you’re just making excuses because you’re lazy and probably fat.

[Anonymous No.20347463]

>>20347433
ADHD is most often used as a cop out for being fucking stupid. It does kinda exist, but 95 percent of the kids taking prescription speed are just a little slow but their mom's want them in the gifted and talented program. And if your an adult claiming ADHD then you're just a loser.

[Anonymous No.20347486]

>>20347463
Do you mean that I don't fed money for working in nyc and dealing with bizarroworld crowds, hearing gunshots and seeing dead bodies in the subways?

[Anonymous No.20347513]

>>20347031
I just went to the store and ground pork was 1/3 the price of ground beef... I really don't understand that at all.

[Anonymous No.20347523]

>>20347031
How is it so expensive "nowadays" You're old enough to post here, have internet, and a phone, but food is expensive? What are you some fucking lying faggot? Go suck more dicks or something.
Fucking poppinjay.

[Anonymous No.20347529]

>>20347523
Food prices rose fairly dramatically within the past few years.

[Anonymous No.20347537]

>>20347529
That happens to everyone, and your'e whining like the bitch that you are. You're the type that put biden in office, reap it cunt.

[Anonymous No.20347542]

31yo AuDHD temporarily disabled woman with PCOS here, I agree with you OP. It’s nearly impossible to eat nowadays because of inflation and food and housing prices, I can barely afford to feed my vegan dog proper nutritious meals.

[Anonymous No.20347546]

>>20347537
I can see that you're just looking to getting into an online argument, and it doesn't matter what's actually being said. It's okay. You can vent if you need to.

[Anonymous No.20347549]

>>20347542
Lies and why would you be here?

[Anonymous No.20347553]

>>20347546
You brought it up faggot.

[Anonymous No.20347569]

>>20347537
I know this isn't pol, but did you know P. Diddy publicly endorsed Joe Biden in the last election? Lol
Anyway OP: flour and lard mixed with a little water and salt, makes shortcut pastry. You can use it to bake pies, pastries, samosas, empanadas, all sorts of things. Assuming you have an oven.

[Anonymous No.20347589]

>>20347113
This
I yelled this at my brother-in-law, who claims to have it

[Anonymous No.20347609]

>>20347569
I don't know or care what a "p diddy" is, tell me why I should care and why you suck so much as to have to some hollywood creation to help you.

[Anonymous No.20347610]

Food is not expensive, just buy the base ingredients that everything is made of. rice, wheat (pasta or flour), meat (yes it is cheap, potato chips are nearly 3x the price of chicken breast for instance)

[Anonymous No.20347641]

>>20347609
I'm not the other person you seem to want to argue with. But here's the facts, jack. This board doesn't move fast enough that you need to keep bumping it with fake arguing like you do on pol. The threads stay up for days here. If you don't shit them up, that is.
Keep fake arguing and thread gets 404'd.
HTH

[Anonymous No.20347673]

>>20347031
bake 2 lb of bacon and save the runoff

[Anonymous No.20347684]

>>20347031
Why do you want to eat so much fat ?, you will not maintain a healthy weight doing that, also it seems better to not mix fat and carbohydrate so much.

[Anonymous No.20347702]

>>20347031
>Is lard particularly unhealthy compared to vegetable oils
It's actually much healthier than vegetable oils like soybean oil.
The makers of Crisco paid off the American Heart Association to go on a campaign, based on faulty science, against saturated fat. Turns out it's fats with high amounts of linoleic acid like soybean oil which clog arteries via oxidized LDL cholesterol, not saturated fat, which raises LDL cholesterol but not oxidized LDL cholesterol.

[Anonymous No.20347735]

>>20347031
Take some beef broth or water and heat in giant soup pot. Add chopped carrot, onion, celery, and little baby Yukon or red potatoes. If you can get some stew bones add that as well. Add some ground beef when it starts to simmer let it cook until the meat is firm. If you stir it before the meat is cooked it will just dissolve away but that okay too. I prefer little pieces. Add some frozen green beans and tomato paste or crushed tomatoes. You can also just use a frozen vegetable medley if you really want to save money. Frozen peas instead of green beans work well too. Use whatever veggies you like. Worcestershire sauce and Tabasco also go in and salt and pepper along with some paprika. Add more broth and/or water until it’s all covered and let everything cook low and slow. Until potatoes are soft but not too mushy. Now once I’ve eaten on it and most of the meat and potatoes are gone just add pasta more broth and seasoning and make an additional batch. It’s like a beef minestrone soup. I make a big pot and eat on it for a few days. Goes great with cheese and crackers or some cornbread. Garnish with a little parsley and it’s the perfect stew. I reccomend trying to grow all your own fresh herbs if you can. It really saves money and taste much better.
Rice and chicken caseroles are good too.
Just an FYI soups are the most efficient and cheap way to get fed.

[Anonymous No.20347738]

>>20347735
Yukon or red potatoes*
Sorry for fucked yo formatting I’m phone posting.

[Anonymous No.20347744]

>>20347702
>linoleic acid
Wow I've been eating coconut oil lately so your post made me check. I hoped it would be lower % than seed oils but I didn't expect it to be that low. Coconut is just an excellent food all round.

[Anonymous No.20347752]

>>20347113
trvthnvke. the lazy retards realized that fat retards can get sympathy by blaming their genes, so they invented a new mental disorder for themselves. doctors love this stuff, it's a new excuse to start another opioid crisis

[Anonymous No.20347763]

>>20347744
Yeah coconut is pretty healthy despite people now sometimes saying the saturated fat in it is bad for you. Linoleic acid isn't inherently bad though, we need some in our diet.

I think the real issue is that most vegetable oils are highly processed, and our diets are generally lacking in omega 3 fats to balance out the omega 6 that we're getting from vegetable oil. Plus having bad diets in general.

[Anonymous No.20347789]

Stop making this thread you faggot

[Anonymous No.20347916]

>>20347094
>coconut oil that is obviously virgin
How do you tell? Asking for a friend.

[Anonymous No.20347936]

>>20347031
u dont need to be a "healthy weight" (according to american standards). its okay to be skinny, skinny people have the most aesthetic faces and bodies
but anyways, most oils have similar caloric density. lard is a good oil, i think its used less because its more expensive than vegetable oils and vegetarians cant eat it

[Anonymous No.20347954]

>>20347916
Well, It blushes a LOT, and it also says right on the label.
The one thing About coconut oil is that if you eat it all the time, you kind of get sick of the ever present flavor. It's great stuff, you should rotate it with butter, tallow, lard (as stated before making your own is best, you just have to get pork fat from the butcher and render it down yourself-it keeps at room temp for ~6 months, and if refrigerated a year. Plus, you get cracklins which are like dense pork rinds and are great on salads)-and a good organic olive oil from Spain or Turkey.

[Anonymous No.20347953]

>>20347763
Thoughts on hazelnut oil? I’ve been looking into it and it seems like a cheaper, more reliably fresh and genuine, version of olive oil.

I’m actually thinking of buying a bunch of hazelnuts and making my own oil.

[Anon No.20348080]

>>20347553
Hey bro. Let's not use that type of language here. Thank you :)

[Anonymous No.20348095]

>>20348080
oh shit...ANOTHER ONE...

[Anonymous No.20348101]

>>20347744
linoleic acid isn't automatically poisonous, its poisonous because its fragile and decays and is often sold predecaying or decayed.
So on that note if you eat refined oils at a high temp you are also fucking yourself over.

TL:DR make sure that coconut oil is virgin

[Anonymous No.20348107]

>>20347031
When I'm feeling lazy. I just make a big batch of soup.
Either tomato paste or better than bullion base.
Then add a bunch of aromatics, leafy green veggies like kale, and canned beans. You can also throw in w.e. meat you want but I usually pass on those.
After it cools down, I'll divide it up into quart sized plastic bags then put half in the freezer and the other half in the fridge.

[Anonymous No.20348142]

>>20347954
Do you have any sources for this linoleic acid stuff?
Everything I see on google only says that it's only beneficial for the body.

[Anonymous No.20348220]

>>20348142
There is no robust data suggesting saturated fat causes atherosclerosis:
https://academic.oup.com/eurjpc/article-abstract/29/18/2312/6691821
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31841151/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2824152/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109720356874
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/4/e004487
What causes atherosclerosis is, instead, oxidized LDL cholesterol, which you get by eating oxidized fats, meaning the polyunsaturated fats (especially linoleic acid) found in common vegetable oils such as soybean oil which are literally rancid by the time you purchase them due to the high heat used in the process of making them:
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/health/a-lifelong-fight-against-trans-fat.html
https://www.vanderbilt.edu/olli/class-materials/Nutrition_Immunity_Spr21_Session4.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQmqVVmMB3k
Saturated fat was the primary fat source for humans for thousands of years, yet heart disease was almost unheard of until humans started eating vegetable oils.

[Anonymous No.20348222]

>>20348142
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9794145/
>Thus, from 1961 on, the AHA recommended that all men (and subsequently women) decrease their consumption of saturated fat, replacing these fats whenever possible with polyunsaturated vegetable oils, as the most promising measure of protection against heart disease.
>The 1961 American Heart Association advice to limit saturated fat is arguably the single-most influential nutrition policy ever published, as it came to be adopted first by the U.S. government, as official policy for all Americans, in 1980, and then by governments around the world as well as the World Health Organization. It is worth noting that the AHA had a significant conflict of interest, since in 1948, it had received $1.7 million, or about $20 million in today's dollars, from Procter & Gamble (P&G), the makers of Crisco oil. This donation was transformative for the AHA, propelling what was a small group into a national organization.

[Anonymous No.20348224]

>>20348142
https://openheart.bmj.com/content/5/2/e000898
>OxLDL is thought to play an important role in atherosclerosis formation; however, it is the oxidised linoleic acid contained in LDL that leads to harmful OXLAMs, which induces atherosclerosis and CHD. Thus, reducing the amount of dietary linoleic acid, mainly from industrial vegetable/seed oils, will reduce the amount of linoleic acid in LDL and likely reduce oxLDL as well as the risk for coronary heart disease.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3315351/
>Generally, polyunsaturated fatty acids favor the oxidation of LDL while monounsaturated fatty acids are less conducive to its formation
Most seed oils are heated to 500F for 30 minutes during the process of making them. This renders them literally rancid, as polyunsaturated fat is very unstable and prone to oxidation. They then undergo a deodorizing process so the consumer cannot tell they are rancid.
Rancid oil is literally, factually and objectively toxic.

[Anonymous No.20348226]

>>20348142
https://www.diabetesresearchclinicalpractice.com/article/S0168-8227(22)00854-3/fulltext
>oxLDL/LDL-C ratio was positively associated with severity of coronary atherosclerosis (OR 2.03, 95% CI 1.31–3.14, p < 0.01)
>oxLDL/LDL-C ratio is significantly associated with the severity of coronary atherosclerosis
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0024320504000530
>At 48 ± 2 d of age, the aorta phospholipid of piglets from porcine fed hydrogenated fat contained a significantly higher concentration of linoleic acid
>These changes in composition in piglets from porcine fed hydrogenated fat indicate that trans fat inhibits the metabolic conversion of linoleic acid to arachidonic acid and to other n-6 PUFA.
So, trans fat causes atherosclerosis by causing linoleic acid to build up in arteries. Linoleic acid is the stuff in stuff like soybean oil which is very easily oxidized.
tl;dr: Linoleic acid = clogged arteries.
Oils high in linoleic acid = soybean, corn, cottonseed, grape seed, hemp seed, non-high-oleic safflower oil, non-high-oleic sunflower oil.
Olive oil is high in oleic acid and low in linoleic acid, so it's fairly healthy.
The most stable oils, meaning the least prone to oxidation, are saturated fats which are solid at room temperature.
Clogged arteries are caused by oxidized LDL cholesterol. LDL cholesterol levels are associated with clogged arteries only because LDL cholesterol levels are also associated with oxidized LDL cholesterol levels. Saturated fat has been wrongly demonized because it is associated with LDL cholesterol levels, but it is not associated with oxidized LDL cholesterol levels.
Linoleic acid is the main culprit in terms of oxidized LDL cholesterol levels and clogging the west's arteries. Linoleic acid is the reason heart disease rates have increased in lockstep with the use of vegetable oils.

[Anonymous No.20348229]

>>20348142
https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.e8707
When trans fat+saturated fat is replaced with high omega-6 fat in the human diet, the result is an increase in heart disease mortality.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0005276070901311
Greater amounts of linoleic acid oxidation products are found within human atherosclerotic plaques and the degree of oxidation determines the severity of atherosclerosis.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0009308497000959
Greater amounts of linoleic acid oxidation products are found in LDL and plasma of human patients with atherosclerosis.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0009308497000959
The oxidation of linoleic acid in LDL leads to conjugated dienes (malondialdehyde and 4-hydroxynonenal), which covalently bind to apoB altering its structure creating oxidised LDL. oxLDL is no longer recognised by the LDL receptors on the liver but by scavenger receptors on macrophages causing monocyte infiltration into the subendothelium, foam cell formation and eventual atherosclerosis in humans.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PII0140-6736(92)91129-V/fulltext
Susceptibility to LDL oxidation is associated with severity of coronary atherosclerosis in humans.

[Anonymous No.20348262]

>>20348220
>>20348222
>Checked
>>20348224
>>20348226
>>20348229
Thanks for picking up the Slack, anon.
Great info, well presented.

[Anonymous No.20348302]

>>20347433
You didnt read the post huh

[Anonymous No.20348856]

>>20347031
Lard is much better than any vegetable cooking oil
However, mixing carbs and fat is a one way road to metabolic dysfunction whether it comes 10 years from now or 40. Learn about the Randle cycle. You've been warned.

[Anonymous No.20348861]

>>20347513
Easier to produce, lower demand = lower price
No one uses ground pork for their recipes, they use ground beef. Its much more commonplace.

[Anonymous No.20348865]

>>20347702
based as fuck

[Anonymous No.20348884]

>>20347763
The problem is that vegetable oils high in LA are easily oxidized at room temp. They are oxidizing long before they make it to the grocery store shelf and they also oxidize inside your body. Eating them literally creates oxidative stress. Basically the disease process for atherosclerosis is you eat excess sugar combined with fat, your cells literally block out the sugar after a certain point to protect them from being destroyed, but your bloodstream and arteries etc take the hit. Sugar is damaging to your body. This sugar in your bloodstream glycates LDL particles which are vulnerable to being damaged by oxidative stress, becoming oxLDL. There is literally a medical and scientific term for oxidized LDL and it is well know that they cause issues, but people still turn a blind eye to this because of dietary dogma.
Keeping this in mind, look at the typical American breakfast.
Cereal, pancakes or muffins, or eggs, sausage, a combination of all these, or a breakfast bar etc.
What do they all have? The meat/eggs has fat. The carb foods have...well carbs! And they also have seed oils. You will be very hard pressed to find a shelf stable ready to eat food that doesn't have seed oils + carbs. They exist, but they're the vast minority and even then they still will most likely have fat and carbs together which is generally a no no.
Then you wonder why developed countries including the US, China and Japan even have such high diabetes rates.

[Anonymous No.20348895]

>>20347094
>Most shelf stable lard is awful.
How do you figure? It's just pork fat, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.20349021]

>>20347113
It's a bad name because it originally only referred to children who were bouncing off the walls not paying attention in class. The reality is that attention isn't the issue it's executive functions in the prefrontal cortex. adhd people hyper focus, just on the wrong things usually through excessive procrastination. Also if it was fake then Adderall and drugs like it wouldn't affect adhd people differently than it does regular people.

[Anonymous No.20349222]

>>20348895
In America, shelf stable lard tends to be hydrogenated. I'm gonna be honest: I don't know what "hydrogenated" means but I'm sure it's some sort of money saving process otherwise, no company would do it and, as with most-to-all money saving processes companies use, it almost certainly lowers the quality.
Freshly made lard is substantially more expensive but it actually tastes good while the hydrogenated stuff might as well be crisco (a flavourless hydrogenated oil sold in the US) as it has no flavour at all. That's the only reason I won't buy the hydrogenated stuff.
>>20349021
I wrote that. I'm aware that there are very real differences in the brain patterns of ADD/ADHD patients from typical people but it's still seems a sham and it's definitely overdiagnosed in the US and other English-speaking countries. It comes across as an excuse for poor behaviour and/or poor parenting.
ADD/ADHD medications are generally illegal in my home country. The vast majority of children who get this diagnosis, and the percentage is far, far lower than in Anglo countries, are given counseling, not drugs. And it seems to work just as well.
And how's this for a twist: I was diagnosed with it as a kid when i lived in the US. In my case, at least, it was total bullshit. I was just extremely bored because the school was far behind what I'd learned by that point. 3rd year/grade and they were still teaching fucking arithmetic! We were doing algebra where I moved from. Once they bumped me up a few courses, lo and behold, my ADHD magically cleared up lmao

[Anonymous No.20349490]

>>20349222
>I don't know what "hydrogenated" means

Saturating any double bonds so the fatty acids become saturated.
Not exactly a gentle process: Heat the fat to very high temperature over a catalyst in hydrogen atmosphere. This leads to unsaturated fats getting cracked, the hydrogen atoms taking place at the freed bonds and the fat becoming fully saturated. Usually done to make liquid at room temperature oils into a solid to semi solid mass (margerine). Nothing about hydrated fats is natural anymore.
IN this case done since the more saturated a fat is the less rancid it becomes, this is the increased stability.
Hydration leads to abnormal building of trans-fats, in small quantities they are and always have been a natural part of fats like in milk etc. But those high artificial amounts are nothing the body could prepare for. This was the reason for the whole trans fat panic like a decade ago.

[Anonymous No.20349639]

I misread a recipe and bought rice flour only to realize I had no use for it. What are some good uses for it that isn't just substituting wheat flour?

[Anonymous No.20349655]

>>20347031
Stop making excuses with your fucking ADHD nonsense. Are you an idiot and can't make a list? Fuck off with that shit.

[Anonymous No.20349702]

>>20349222
>it still seems
>It comes across as
>generally illegal
>vast majority
>it seems
>In my case

You use vague language, and don't SEEM to realize that you aren't a majority of, well, anything. Might be smart to study things unobjectively, instead of only using your experience, or stopping once you get the conclusions that you agree with.

[Anonymous No.20349830]

>>20349702
I just didn't want to use any absolute in case some faglord (IE (You)) tried to AKSHULLY me about it.
So let me use absolutes: you're an absolute cunt, you have absolutely no friends, absolutely no one likes you and absolutely no one ever will. :3

[Anonymous No.20350214]

>>20349490
It's worth noting that fully hydrogenated lard does not have substantial amounts of trans fats. Partially hydrogenated lard does.
Fully hydrogenated lard is fine. Certainly a fuckload better than soybean oil, which is, unfortunately, used in fucking everything these days.
Soybean oil is a good reason to try to eat mostly whole foods - if it's packaged, processed food, there's a decent chance it has fucking soybean oil in it these days.

[Anonymous No.20350400]

>>20348895
>>20349222
shelf stable lard has chemicals added to make it shelf stable its not just hydrogenated

[Anonymous No.20351681]

>>20348856
>randle cycle
based knower. diabetes is much harder to get if you have minimum fat intake. you learn a lot about the human body when you think about how it functions with the diet that God intended in Genesis 1:29

[Anonymous No.20352080]

>>20347113
The funniest part of this post is that no one bothered to point out that OP is UNDERweight. He's looking for ENOUGH calories to stay at a healthy weight.

I like how you're calling a bunch of people retards, but then you cannot even read well. Ever since I've started posting on 4chan it's really redpilled me how dumb a large number of people really are.

[Anonymous No.20352340]

>>20347542
PCoS? You mean you're temporarily disabled with brown people?

[Anonymous No.20352357]

>>20352080
You didn't even say you were trying to gain weight so much as merely implied it, kiddo, and no one is going to take the time to read whatever drivel you posted beyond a cursory glance.
I didn't even read the second paragraph of this post because no.

[Anonymous No.20352376]

>>20352357
The irony of saying you didn't read one fucking paragraph when it's the paragraph saying you can't read kek
Some anons are just so fucking stupid they self-own. Imagine being so braindead that you tl;Dr a single paragraph

[Anonymous No.20352381]

>>20352376
didn't read lol

[Anonymous No.20352398]

>>20347953
Might have a strong taste. Some people might not mind, but some might not like it. It might get old in every dish. I can't speak to the actual health value of it.

[Anonymous No.20352405]

>>20347954
This is true about coconut oil. I hate cooking with it now. The taste is terrible.

[Anonymous No.20352415]

>>20347953
Making your own unrefined peanut oil might be cheaper. Buy raw peanuts it just plain roasted ones, run them through a mill it good processor and let them just sit. That's literally just unsalted peanut butter.
Eventually the oil will separate out.
Most peanut oils are extracted from raw peanuts which are ground and pressed, like olives and other oils, but the resulting mash is further processed with solvents to extract as much additional oil as possible.
Whichever you choose, peanut, hazelnut or what, you won't extract a huge amount of oil short of using solvents

[Anonymous No.20352424]

The cheapest and best cooking oil is ghee that you make yourself. Unsaled butter is double boiled and then filtered through a reusable cheese cloth after the second set of solids undergoes the Maillard carmelizing. Taste is neutral to nut sweet, aroma is butterscotch. Cheap as cheap as butter, high smokepoint, and it doesn't go rancid at room temp. Consider.

[Anonymous No.20352431]

>>20352405
Have you ever "made" your own coconut oil by simply grinding fresh coconut with boiling water and letting it sit to allow the "cream" to float to the top (or used shopbought coconut cream)? If not, for the homemade, you can strain (also filter, if desired) before starting, from which point, the process between using shopbought and homemade is identical: cook it in a pan until it "breaks" and a bunch of coconut oil splits out, dividing the cream into oil and solids in a manner similar to making ghee but less of a pain in the ass (consider how easy ghee is to make from shopbought butter; this is even easier).
The defatted solids leftover from making the cream in the first place can be dried out and used in baking or as a breading (coconut shrimp, for example), but the solids from splitting the cream aren't good for much.

[Anonymous No.20352453]

>>20347702
>It's actually much healthier than vegetable oils like soybean oil.
No it isn't
>The makers of Crisco paid off the American Heart Association to go on a campaign, based on faulty science, against saturated fat.
Conspiracy theory
> Turns out it's fats with high amounts of linoleic acid like soybean oil which clog arteries via oxidized LDL cholesterol
No it isn't
>not saturated fat, which raises LDL cholesterol but not oxidized LDL cholesterol.
It does both

Stop trying to play doctor by reading sensationalist internet articles

[Anonymous No.20353639]

>responding to five posts' worth of links to scientific studies with "Stop trying to play doctor by reading sensationalist internet articles"

[Anonymous No.20354496]

>>20353639
>five posts' worth of links to scientific studies
None of which you've read, much less understand. Posting research like the Sydney Diet Heart Study from the 60s without mention of the context of its details, like how the source of omega-6 was from trans fats because they didn't understand that it was any different from non-hydrogenated fat back then.

Look, saturated fats increase both the LDL count and the rate of LDL oxidation
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8911273/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316622141684
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26118785/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8545249/

Oops! You're not a doctor. You don't understand anything and you're not educated enough to give advice to anyone.

[Anonymous No.20355152]

>>20354496
Only one of those studies states saturated fat increases oxidized LDL, and it was done by pinko commie Scatalans.

[Anonymous No.20355172]

>>20355152
Also, the commie Scatalan study doesn't mention what the high PUFA source is. Cold-pressed high-PUFA oil (a minority of vegetable oils) isn't going to be nearly as oxidized as high-PUFA oils exposed to tons of heat during the manufacturing process (the majority of vegetable oils that people eat).

[Anonymous No.20355198]

>>20354496
https://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i1246
A similar study to the Sydney Diet Heart Study found that
>Though the MCE intervention lowered serum cholesterol, this did not translate to improved survival
>Paradoxically, MCE participants who had greater reductions in serum cholesterol had a higher, rather than lower, risk of death
The above link states that
>Thus, confounding by dietary trans fat is an exceedingly unlikely explanation for the lack of benefit of the intervention diet.

[Anonymous No.20355560]

>>20347031
>To reduce aldehyde production go for an oil or fat high in monounsaturated or saturated lipids (preferably greater than 60% for one or the other, and more than 80% for the two combined), and low in polyunsaturates (less than 20%).

Cheap way to add calories is putting double cream in your coffee and tea. 100ml is nearly 500 calories and makes your coffee very indulgent

I use lard because its cheap and can be reused

[Anonymous No.20355793]

>>20355152
They all do, and they even show that PUFA is more favorable than SFA in lowering LDL oxidation
>>20355172
>Also, the commie Scatalan study doesn't mention what the high PUFA source is.
"All menus were prepared by using common food items. Special emphasis was placed on using foodstuffs that were not different from those habitually consumed by the study subjects." For PUFA they used sunflower oil, for monounsaturated fat they used olive oil.
>>20355198
>confounding by dietary trans fat is an exceedingly unlikely explanation for the lack of benefit of the intervention diet.
They acknowledge that the intervention involved trans fats, which is how they managed to make it a double-blind study (can't replace solid fat with liquid fat without people knowing).
>As common margarines and shortenings of this period were rich sources of industrially produced trans fatty acids,23 24 25 the control diet contained substantial quantities of trans fat.
Trans fat has negative health effects beyond cholesterol. If they swapped out their breakfast for a pack of cigarettes, their cholesterol would decrease and their mortality rates would increase.

[Anonymous No.20356541]

>>20347031
>adhd makes it hard to organize cheap meals that also have enough calories to stay at a healthy weight
So fucking relatable. I've probably only eaten about 1,000 calories in 48 hours.

[Anonymous No.20356638]

>>20355793
>They all do
They do not. Only one of the studies, the commie Scatalan study, specifically comes to the conclusion that sat fat leads to higher blood serum concentrations of oxidized LDL.
"Sat fat leads to more copper-mediated in vitro oxidation" does NOT mean "sat fat leads to higher blood serum concentrations of oxidized LDL." Also, one of the studies said that sat fat led to identical copper-mediated in vitro oxidation compared to PUFA.
>For PUFA they used sunflower oil
OK, found the full text by quoting your quote in Google.
Doesn't specify "normal" sunflower oil or cold-pressed. If it's cold-pressed, the results are fucking worthless in relation to the average western diet which is laden with heavily heat-treated PUFAs.
>trans fat stuff
Again:
>Thus, confounding by dietary trans fat is an exceedingly unlikely explanation for the lack of benefit of the intervention diet.
This was said by people who are far more knowledgeable than you, not to mention trustworthy, since you're posting Scatalan commie studies as if they are fact.

[Anonymous No.20357578]

>>20356638
>"Sat fat leads to more copper-mediated in vitro oxidation" does NOT mean "sat fat leads to higher blood serum concentrations of oxidized LDL."
Cause and effect, just like saturated fat increasing LDL cholesterol production and lowering cholesterol clearance leads to higher cholesterol in the blood. You've been given mechanisms and endpoints.
>Doesn't specify "normal" sunflower oil or cold-pressed. If it's cold-pressed, the results are fucking worthless
It's common sunflower oil purchased at a grocery store. With that said, is your only objection to PUFA fats that some store-bought oils aren't fresh? Otherwise, you do accept and endorse PUFA, including organic vegetable oils, as healthier than saturated fats?
>Again:
>This was said by people who are far more knowledgeable than you
They also say the data is incomplete and they can only guess either way. It didn't even measure LDL separately from HDL. You'll quibble about whether the oil is cold-pressed or not but you don't think it's important to know how much of the intervention involved hydrogenated fats or what the specific lipoprotein make-up of the groups looked like?

[Anonymous No.20357913]

>>20357578
>Cause and effect, just like saturated fat increasing LDL cholesterol production and lowering cholesterol clearance leads to higher cholesterol in the blood. You've been given mechanisms and endpoints.
No. Just no.
"Sat fat leads to more copper-mediated in vitro oxidation" means "sat fat MAY lead to higher blood serum concentrations of oxidized LDL."
It does NOT mean "sat fat leads to higher blood serum concentrations of oxidized LDL."
Period.
>It's common sunflower oil purchased at a grocery store.
The study does not state this. You just fabricated this. You are not doing the validity of your argument in others' eyes any favors by arguing in bad faith.
Commies don't want us eating meat, so they don't want us eating animal fats earlier. I wouldn't put it below Scatalan commies to intentionally use cold-pressed sunflower oil in that study and not mention it, knowing full well it's significantly less oxidized than average sunflower oil.
It's natural for me to be skeptical of that study. You'd be skeptical of a study done by the KKK that came to the conclusion that 99 percent of pedophiles are black, and so would I.
>With that said, is your only objection to PUFA fats that some store-bought oils aren't fresh?
The main problem is the staggering amounts of literally rancid vegetable oils that the western world is consuming. Heat-processed soybean oil is in fucking everything if you read labels. That oil is literally rancid by the time it reaches the consumer due to how much heat it's exposed to during the manufacturing process.

[Anonymous No.20357932]

>>20357913
>Commies don't want us eating meat, so they don't want us eating animal fats earlier. I wouldn't put it below Scatalan commies to intentionally use cold-pressed sunflower oil in that study and not mention it, knowing full well it's significantly less oxidized than average sunflower oil.
>It's natural for me to be skeptical of that study. You'd be skeptical of a study done by the KKK that came to the conclusion that 99 percent of pedophiles are black, and so would I.
It's also in an AHA journal lol. The same AHA that Crisco's manufacturer paid an equivalent of $20 million of today's dollars to.

[Anonymous No.20357953]

>>20347752
the worst part is how much the institutionalized believe it (the indoctrinated, systemized, and geared to survive the environment of 'the machine')

[Anonymous No.20358000]

>>20357913
>No. Just no.
>It does NOT mean "sat fat leads to higher blood serum concentrations of oxidized LDL."
It says that saturated fat makes LDL cholesterol more susceptible to oxidation. Combine that with the fact that saturated fat increase the amount of LDL in the blood waiting to be oxidized, yes that is what it means.
>The study does not state this.
The authors made a point that they used common food items identical to the foods already consumed by the people being studied. Either they used the most rancid sunflower oil and it didn't matter, or the average person doesn't use the most rancid sunflower oil and it doesn't matter.
>The main problem is the staggering amounts of literally rancid vegetable oils that the western world is consuming.
Again I ask, are you accepting then that PUFA itself is not the problem, that it is in fact healthier than saturated fats, and your only objection is that some refined oils sit on the shelf too long?
If that's all you're saying, not arguing that saturated fats are healthy, then say that first.
Then I'll ask what the evidence is, and it must be more robust in its evidence than the Lipid Hypothesis, that highly oxidized oils are less healthy than saturated fats. So far your mechanistic statements about oxidized LDL have not supported that view.