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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/ck/ - Food & Cooking

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19395261 No.19395261 [Reply] [Original]

Who got the better deal, food wise?

>> No.19395268

Asia because they get to enjoy fried rice with ketchup.

>> No.19395270

>>19395261
depends on who you ask

>> No.19395291

why were there no diseases from america
you'd think with all that sweaty jungle there'd be diseases
and there were no bees in america? what the heck

>> No.19395304

>>19395291
Its a meme image made by self deprecating whites. It would get you cancelled to claim nonwhites had disease

>> No.19395309

>>19395261
i guess livestock vs turkey is your answer, no one eats turkey. only as a deli if they want to lose weight.. almost everyone eats livestock

>> No.19395329

>>19395291
>>19395304
IIRC gonorrhea which was unknown in Europe before like 1500

>> No.19395339

>>19395291
Basically the diseases that came about in Europe became more deadly to humans over time, the diseases in the Americas were not as deadly, and many zoological diseases (diseases that affect animals) didn't jump over to humans. It's why the Black Death only happened in Europe. The diseases that came from the Americas weren't as bad as what people were already used to.

Ignore this /pol/fag brain rot >>19395304 he hasn't read a book since high school and his critical thinking skills have diminished from /pol/posting all day.

>> No.19395346

>>19395261
Increased life expectancy and reduced infant mortality for the win.

>> No.19395375

>>19395261
getting peaches, pears, bananas, limes, lemons & oranges in exchange for pineapple makes North America the winner.

>> No.19395392

>>19395339
Speaking of self-deprecating whites.

>> No.19395925

>>19395392
>Europeans having stronger immune systems is "self-deprecating"
You are supremely retarded and lack critical reading skills, go back to /pol/ or Reddit, they reopened all the subreddit recently.

>> No.19396873
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19396873

>>19395291
BIG cities with large-scale domesticateable livestock grown in close quarters with humans cultivation breed plagues.

America didn't really have BIG cities, didn't live with their animals the way a european would take their animals into the home, and didn't generally have domesticated livestock animals besides alpacas worth a shit.

Plagues in Europe were therefore like 500x further into their tech tree than American equivalents, so Europeans who had been breathing, drinking, and eating in animal-juiced black plague smallpox cholera nightmare sauce daily (the british called this "hanging out with me woife") were unfecked by American diseases, whereas native Americans were sitting ducks.

>> No.19396892

>>19395925
lemme guess, you probably believe settlers deliberately gave indians blankets with smallpox to make them sick even though germ theory didn't exist until the 1860s and wasn't even mainstream until around 1920
up until that point medicine was still about trying to balance the humors and purge evil spirits

yet somehow the settlers 300 years earlier knew the blankets they gave would make the indians sick

>> No.19396912

>>19396873
south and central americans had BIG cities, but there was no livestock so the majority of food processing/suppling was done outside major urban centers.

>> No.19396934

>>19396892
just because they were ignorant of the root cause (germs), does not mean they were ignorant of the rest of the process. People understood that cleanliness led to good health and that diseases spread due to proximity. Up until modern medicine, people lived and dealt with diseases much more intimately than any of us ever will.

>> No.19396937

>>19396892
>yet somehow the settlers 300 years earlier knew the blankets they gave would make the indians sick
Yeah, this reminds me of how people accused homosexuals of deliberately spreading AIDS, venereal diseases, and monkeypox to each other. I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose.
Then again, HIV only exists because people literally had sex with monkeys, got infected with SIV (which went from being a simian disease to a human disease), and then went and had sex with other humans. Bug chasing and gift giving wasn't even a thing until Rolling Stone wrote a fake news article about it.

>> No.19396968
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19396968

>>19395261
>Plagues
Europe crushed this one, American diseases forgot to show up on "bring your plague to work" day
>Drugs
America wins, coffee and it's buzz is a WAY better drug than tobacco, which is just unfun addictive leaves.
>Grains, cereals, staples
Europe CRUSHINGLY wins. Getting potatoes alone wins this one,additionally and getting corn, beans, sweet potatoes, pumpkins and squash on top are just a bonus
>Vegetables
Europe narrowly eeks a wins. Tomatoes, avocado and peppers narrowly beat out the onion and olive
>Fruits
America wins HARD. Citrus fruits and grapes, AND bananas, AND peaches and pears, and all you give up is pineapple? BIG win.
>Meat
America wins HARD. You give up turkey for literally all the livestock? Absolute destruction.
>Utility shit
America wins HARD, you get honey bees AND horses, and all you gotta give up is quinine, at the time only a meh-tier malaria treatment? Complete score.
>Sweets
Tie. Vanilla and cacao are BIG losses, but giving up honey and sugar to get it are BIG losses. It's a draw.

Final score is 3.5-4.5 Europeans to Americans, for a narrow American win

>> No.19396984

>>19396934
or consider the option that a pathogen existed in a population that already had resistance to it so they had no inclination there was even a pathogen present, or that other people would be susceptible to it

>> No.19397000
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19397000

>>19396984
Are you really going so contrarian that you're rewriting historical Europeans into dindus? Holy fucking shit anon, don't forget to say the line about anime posting while you're picking at your acne, oh my god

>> No.19397011

>>19397000
you're the one trying to ascribe malice to people when all the evidence would have you believe otherwise

let's see if you're even capable of critical thinking
how many covid shots have you gotten?

>> No.19397013

>>19395291
Its just bull shit. Africa also gave the world Aids and Ebola

>> No.19397018

>>19396873
This. Diseases the American natives had weren't nearly as potent because the evolutionary pressures they were placed under wouldn't and couldn't allow for it-a 90% mortality rate in a city of 100,000 is going to still leave 10k around, but a 90% rate in a tribe of, like, 200 is going to effectively take out the tribe and the disease with it, along with people being scarce enough in the first place that diseases just didn't get the evolutionary time to develop all that much anyways (Less overall people means far less opportunities to mutate into dangerous pandemics)

>> No.19397064
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19397064

>>19397011
>ascribe malice
Ah yes, ascribed. Entirely imagined. Not discussed by those of the time, surely, as such acts would be against the attitudes and behaviors of those of the era.

>> No.19397081

>>19396892
>even though germ theory didn't exist until the 1860s
Look up miasma.
Even without germ theory, early humans understood that sick people make other people sick, and you can even see references to this in Leviticus.
There are records where eople would literally catapult dead bodies into enemy castles with full knowledge that it would make the entire encampment sick.

>> No.19397092

>>19397064
Was this written by Francisco de bobadilla? The guy that lied through his teeth because he wanted Columbus's job so he did everything he could to make it sound like everything was completely FUBAR in the new world

>> No.19397124

>>19397092
There's literally a quote from Columbus' own son in the dead center of the image...?
How dead set are you on this dindu history retelling, anon? It's not even a direct indictment of Columbus but rather his men, the man could be a saint with a retinue of beasts, it changes nothing-his retinue were malicious at best

>> No.19397128

>>19397092
>>19397124
Columbus was jewish btw. If you defend Columbus, then you're defending international jewry

>> No.19397136

>>19395261
For me it's turnips and typhoid fever.

>> No.19397143

>>19395291
There were some, like syphilis

>> No.19397155

>>19397143
that's been discredited

>> No.19397169

>>19395309
I’m having livestock for dinner!

>> No.19397175

>>19395291
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEYh5WACqEk

CGP Grey did a vid on this ages ago.

>> No.19397176

there are wild old word vanilla species but for some reason they weren't used except for a few instances in antiquity.
there's also another later trade route of phillippines-mexico where some ingredients are traded that are not used in european cooking. like how chinese and filipino use jicama in their cooking sometimes or how latin-americans now use tamarind.
old world had beans, just different ones like chickpeas, lentils, mung beans.

>> No.19397180

>>19397143
Not until your mom showed up

>> No.19397252

>>19395261
USA made out if only because of the livestock alone

>> No.19397352

>>19395291
loads of europeans died of yellow fever in the jungles. it just killed people going there and didnt spread from the sick, so no big epidemics.

>bees
the european honey bee apis melifera was introduced by the colonists. the americas have hundreds of native bee species, most of them stingless. some have a tradition of beekeeping like the maya using hollow logs for colonies of melipona beccheii.

>> No.19397357

>>19397352
>loads of europeans died of yellow fever in the jungles.
Maybe they should have stayed away from asian girls.

>> No.19397393

>>19397000
If they didn't know about fucking germ theory until the 1860s, how are they gonna know fuck all about pathenogenic resistances? Just how much of a retarded faggot are you?

>> No.19397553

>>19395261
Imagine what a westernized Maya empire would've looked like.

>> No.19397571

>>19397176
Doesn't vanilla still take a lot of labor to produce? I read that rose water used to be used more in Europe and America because it's easier to produce. It's still used in Middle Eastern and Indian food.

>> No.19397596

>>19395329
syphilis due to some retard Spanish coomer banging the nastiest native whore and everything back to Spain

>> No.19397696

>>19397571
you need to pollinate each flower by hand to get a decent fruit set. the fermentation process is also a bit of work. on top of that, a fungal infection takes out big parts of the plants at times, so when that happens the yield drops dramatically which causes a big spike in prices

>> No.19397698

>>19397180
got em

>> No.19397707

>>19395304
>Its a meme image made by self deprecating whites
Post hands shitskin

>> No.19397982

>>19396912
A 'big' city in south america was maybe 1-2 thousand people. Most of the claims of there being genuine european-sized cities in precolonial south America are pure speculation based on shaky extrapolated data. They look at the ruins of three buildings and then say "this could've been part of a major metropolitan complex!"
Conquistadors were awestruck by Indian constructs because they assumed the Indians were all hairless monkeys who couldn't even into bricks, so seeing them build ANYTHING at all blew them away.

>> No.19397986

>>19396937
Prior to the 2000s over 90% of AIDS cases were gay men

>> No.19397996

>>19397128
Columbus found three islands in the Caribbean and never fully understood he had discovered an entire continent. Amerigo Vespucci is the one who actually put the new world on the map, and its why the Americas are called the Americas rather than the Columbias

>> No.19397999

>>19397553
>drug addicted cannibals that kill each other for sport
That's just Mexico

>> No.19398004

>>19397996
That can't be true, and I know it is fake news. Why? Because we celebrate Columbus Day and not Vespucci day!

>> No.19398011

>>19395261
you know trade works in surplus right, and that neither party is afraid to trade because they have more than enough to sustain their own that's why they give it away for a price

>> No.19398019

>>19398004
Columbus day was originally Italian-American heritage day. It was changed to Columbus day because nobody gave a fuck about Italian-American heritage.

>> No.19398040

>>19396968
>coffee and it's buzz is a WAY better drug than tobacco, which is just unfun addictive leaves.
Agree with everything except this Reddit post. Tobacco is so much better
>Relaxing to smoke
>At the same time you get a post-smoke burst of energy from the vitamin N
>Doesn't taste absolutely foul
>Makes you look cool

>> No.19398065

>>19395261
They got beef, onions, sugar, wheat and goddamn citrus fruit

We get fucking, pumpkins, turkey and tomatoes? Fuck that

>> No.19398109

>>19395291
Because there weren't millions of people moving from America to Europe. It's pretty obvious if you think about it for five seconds.

>> No.19398288

>cassava
the world would be better if that trash starchy tuber did not become widely cultivated

>> No.19398302

>>19396937
Bug chasing has been a thing for ages.
Syphilis and gonnereah were basically considered "badges of honor" to a degree because it meant you fucked.
It's the kind of disease that your doctor would fist bump you for after your diagnosis.

>> No.19398320

>>19395261
I see 3 things I would dearly miss going from Europe to America (onions, livestock and grains) and 6 things I'd dearly miss going from America to Europe (peppers, potatoes, tomatoes, corn, beans, vanilla)
but I'd miss the first 3 more than the other 6. Hard pick.

>> No.19398321

>>19398320
actually, I forgot about cacao. So that's 7 things.

>> No.19398322

>>19398109
>It's pretty obvious if you think about it for five seconds.
No, it's not obvious. Europeans literally went through an entire plague of their own just a couple centuries before traveling to the Americas. And it wasn't because a bunch of Asians moved in, that was just from trading.

>> No.19398337

imagine if the indians or even just the chinese were the first to settle into the americas. there would not even be any native americans left today.

>> No.19398388

>>19395291
Generally the more people you have the higher the chances of some killer virus or bacteria evolving.

It's why most epidemics started in China, including the black plague.

America was cut off from Eurasia and had a smaller population so it's not surprising they had fewer deadly diseases.

>> No.19398401

>THE WHITE MAN CAME ACROSS THE SEA
>HE BROUGHT US PAIN AND MISERY

>> No.19398613

>>19398320
While youd miss livestock, assuming an at the time exchange, you'd have a frankly comical amount of Bison meat, so that'd replace beef easily-the Americas also had chickens already, so I guess aside from...fuck, I dunno? I don't really know what commonly eaten animal you'd lose-a few breeds of sheep are native as well, too

>> No.19398661

>>19396892
>Europeans were superior but also too dumb to understand that a sick person + his clothing and bedding could get other people sick, but also dey dindu nuffin besides all the documented murder, rape, theft, and general niggardry
They didn't have to understand germ theory to understand shit like this-the Tunisian army threw diseased clothing over fort walls in the 1700s, even.

>> No.19398679

>>19395261
Looks fairly balanced actually, the humble potato and tomato caused a revolution in euro cuisine, while the americans got bread and horses.

>> No.19398729

Europe basically got the potato and a bunch of laxatives
But it's worth it because i like potatoes

>> No.19398877

>>19398613
depends much more heavily on the region. you'd either have bison or chicken but not both. or maybe neither as even chicken was kind of limited. dog was bred for meat by aztecs. llamas and alpacas were bred around the andes. guinea pig was (and still is) eaten.