/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.18674823]

Does anyone cook with wine or is it just a meme? Does it actually improve the taste?

[Anonymous No.18674871]

Yes, it makes a difference. I've cooked at half a dozen restaurants and almost all of them used wine in at least 50% of the dishes. People think restaurant food is better because they add a ton of salt and butter to everything, but the truth is that they just know how to cook, and layer flavors to create something more complex than what most people eat at home. A large part of that is using wine.

[Anonymous No.18674889]

>>18674871
specifically what wine do you/they use? Also what's the method usually? Just pour some in and cook the alcohol off?

[Anonymous No.18674916]

>>18674889
It depends on the dish and how the wine is used, but for the most part we'd use chardonnay for white and cabernet for red, but also frequently did pinot grigio or merlot for something where you wanted a little more body or something drier. Most typically you'd use wine to deglaze after sweating the aromatics, but it really depends on the dish. It's also different for wine based dishes such as coq au vin or beef bourguignon. And then there's fortified wines and liquors such as madeira, sherry, marsala, vermouth, port, brandy, or even things such as beer, rum, bourbon, vodka, etc. It really just depends what you're doing. Usually you want to add wine towards the beginning of the cooking process, but that's not always true. Whenever I do risotto I always use wine for the first liquid addition.

[Anonymous No.18674995]

>>18674823
Wine contains high levels of glutamates, so before even considering the addef flavor complexity it enhances what is already there.

[Anonymous No.18675007]

>>18674916
How much does the quality of wine matter? Can you just use the cheapest brand?

[Anonymous No.18675025]

>>18675007
Again, it really depends on what you're doing with it. If you've watched any TV chef personalities or the e-celebs that parrot them you've probably heard the line, "never cook with a wine you aren't willing to drink", and I can tell you that's absolute bullshit. Obviously if a wine is really bad you don't want to use it, but I've cooked some pretty high end dishes using Franzia and I guarantee you nobody but Thomas Keller would eat it and criticize the choice of wine that was used to deglaze. But again, it depends how it's used and when you add it. You can't just pour half a bottle of wine into your stew 20 minutes before you take it off the heat and expect it to not taste like raw wine, but when you use it early and cook off most of the alcohol it just adds a little extra depth and complexity to the dish.

[Anonymous No.18675060]

>>18675025
>>18674916
Thanks, dude, good info.

[Anonymous No.18675599]

Wine is important mechanically because it deglazes the fat on the pan. Water does not achieve this.

Wine also adds depth to sauces
The marriage of these two virtues is on making gravy

[Anonymous No.18675602]

>>18674823
Makes things acidic, you could simply use vinegar or lemon juice

[Anonymous No.18675624]

will sometimes deglaze a pan/pot while making a stew but only with a small bit so I don't find it really effects the overall flavour over using water. I only drink white though. I imagine red might maintain more presence in the finished meal

[Anonymous No.18675633]

>>18674823
improve is subjective, it has acid which is nice, but generally it just gives things a wine taste, which you may or may not like but it does add complexity to a dish, if you have some vinegar you can just splash a little bit of that I guess

[Anonymous No.18675676]

Some flavor compounds are soluble in water, some in fat/oil, and some in alcohol. So cooking with wine will release flavors in the food that otherwise would not be present. This is why cooking with wine gives the dish more "depth" or "layers" of flavor.

In addition wine is acidic which is an important part of properly seasoning the dish.

Lastly the wine will bring some flavor of its own, but what that is depends on which wine you use.

I wouldn't spend more than $5 - $10 on a bottle of cooking wine.

[Anonymous No.18675685]

>>18674823
I make piccata with white wine regularly, it's delicious

[Anonymous No.18675768]

I once fried sausages in Pimm's cup no. 6. The wife was livid and refused to touch them

[Anonymous No.18675781]

I live in socialist finland where the cheapest wine is 10$ and it cant even be sold on sundays. So no, I dont use cooking wine. If it were sold at grocery stores and was available at any time then yeah i would use it.

[Anonymous No.18675787]

>>18675781
Based Anglo sabbatarians infecting Nordic brains to this very day

[Anonymous No.18675849]

>>18674871
>I've cooked at half a dozen restaurants
Why do you keep switching jobs? Are you constantly being let go because you keep cumming in the wine?

[Anonymous No.18675896]

does adding wine to a pan do that fire thing or am I thinking of something else?

[Anonymous No.18675913]

>>18674995
>Wine contains high levels of glutamates,
bullshit

[Anonymous No.18675916]

>>18675896
Flambeing is usually just a flare thing
doesn't actually do much, doesn't even burn off much alcohol.

[Anonymous No.18675918]

>>18674823
Yeah, I used it a lot in stews and such.
Can't go wrong with a nice stew.

[Anonymous No.18675939]

How does cooking with red/white wine compare to stuff like mirin or shaoxing wine?

[Anonymous No.18676040]

Kenji Fagpez will put in vodka in at the end of penne alla vodka for a bit of intentional irritation. I suppose it would also make the aromatic compounds more accessible because alcohol has a lower boiling point than water. I'd imagine you'd also lose some of that flavor from the molecules being more volatile throughout the cooking process from the very beginning.

[Anonymous No.18676050]

tu déglaces comment tes oignons fraté ?

[Anonymous No.18676054]

>>18674823
I usually just braise with wine, but sometimes I'll do a red wine sauce

[Anonymous No.18676164]

>>18675676
>Some flavor compounds are soluble in water, some in fat/oil, and some in alcohol. So cooking with wine will release flavors in the food that otherwise would not be present.
i don't know much about chemistry so feel free to call me a retard, but wouldn't this cause the food to lose aroma rather than retain it? especially if you're slow cooking something, as the alcohol evaporates, wouldn't the alcohol-soluble compounds go with it? hence why boozey food smells so good while it's cooking and travels through the house

[Anonymous No.18676208]

>>18675913
Turdslinging neophyte.

[Anonymous No.18676337]

>>18674916
>Whenever I do risotto I always use wine for the first liquid addition
Thanks for the tip anon, I'm attempting a mushroom and pork risotto tomorrow night and was gonna use wine in it

[Anonymous No.18676375]

>>18676054
staub cocette?
do the nipple lids make meat really more juicy than le creuset for example?

[Anonymous No.18676391]

I guess it's mostly the acid. I often use a small amount of vinegar to replace wine but wine does taste better.

[Anonymous No.18676402]

>>18674916
Woah, actual cooking tips on /ck/?!?

[Anonymous No.18676412]

Cooking with wine is great. My wife and I drink a bottle while we cook Italian food.

[Anonymous No.18676442]

>>18676375
Eh, it's not gonna be a SIGNIFICANT difference, but I like to imagine it helps a little bit in keeping things moist.

I have two of them now.

[Anonymous No.18676617]

>>18676442
26 and 22?
I would get a staub 24 which is always the cheapest one because it seems to be the most common size but our biggest (ceramic) hobs are 17.3cm and 22cm and the staub 24 has a 19.2cm bottom.

how bad is it when you use those pots on smaller hobs?

[Anonymous No.18676642]

Old lady made beef goulash yesterday, tasted exquisite, flavour string like a brick to the face. 4dl red wine and little else apart from basic seasoning.

[Anonymous No.18676652]

Wine in a risotto I would have to say is mandatory.

[Anonymous No.18676694]

wine or beer? What's better?

[Anonymous No.18676696]

does it actually make it taste like wine? Like if I cook for kids who don't know alcohol will it just taste weird to them?

[Anonymous No.18676707]

>>18676696
nah, all the alcohol evaporates away, you're pretty much just adding a savory boost to whatever you're cooking, not too different from adding mushrooms or MSG

[Anonymous No.18676738]

>>18676694
Completely different purposes. Wine is fruity (at least red wine) and dry/sour while beer is malty and rather sweet.

[Anonymous No.18676741]

>>18674823
Braising a beef roast in red wine is next level.

[Anonymous No.18676743]

>>18676738
can you use both beer and wine or is that overdoing it?

[Anonymous No.18676747]

I don't really drink wine, if I open up a bottle to cook with can I store it in the fridge or will it go bad?

[Anonymous No.18676750]

>>18676743
Imo you won't get much of the beer flavour as wine (at least red again) is overpowering. I'd rather use beer and a dash of vinegar if you want to compensate the sweetness from the beer and vegetables.

[Anonymous No.18677006]

>>18674916
>we use white for white
>we use red for red
>it depends
>usually you add it at the beginning
>but that's not always true
>it depends
gee, thanks

[Anonymous No.18677042]

>>18677006
Dude doesn't work at a restaurant and doesn't know what he's talking about. You deglaze pans that cooked meat, if vegetables are leaving brown residue in your pan you fucked them up and you don't want to absorb a bunch of burnt vegetable flavor in your sauce.

[Anonymous No.18677068]

>>18676164
Alcohol has a really low boiling point so it will cook off before any of the other compounds would.

[Anonymous No.18677084]

I dunno but doesn't wine go bad after a month or two of opening? I don't think I could use that much wine in cooking applications and I don't really want to drink it as is either.

[Anonymous No.18677105]

>>18677042
People were told brown = flavour so they roast the shit out of everything. Also a reason they add red wine to brown sauces all the times.

[Anonymous No.18677131]

>>18677084
>doesn't wine go bad after a month or two of opening?

[Anonymous No.18677144]

>>18677131
yeah I don't drink

[Anonymous No.18677204]

>>18676617
yeah, 4qt and 7qt.

As for smaller hobs, they're fine once they get hot since the cast iron holds heat well a small hob isn't a huge problem, BUT when you first put it on the hob it will take awhile before the edges get hot.

[Anonymous No.18677211]

>>18677042
seared veggies do have flavor

[Anonymous No.18677213]

>>18677084
can you freeze wine?

[Anonymous No.18677222]

>>18674823
I occasionally use some red in a sauce or faux french stew, bit of a waste as I can't drink the stuff so anything not used goes in the sink.

[Anonymous No.18677231]

>>18677213
yeah I don't think the alcohol content is high enough for it to require something colder than a normal freezer. wonder if doing so would fuck the taste.

[Anonymous No.18677327]

>>18677213
I read somewhere you could freeze it in ice cube trays and then dump the cubes in a bag. Mine never froze completely. They were slushy. The wine I used could have been pretty high alcohol wise though. 13% ish. Maybe the lower ones would work?

[Anonymous No.18677361]

>>18677231
It supposedly ruins red for drinking but fine for cooking, whites and rose's have little issue either way.

[Anonymous No.18677381]

>>18677222
Can't you get 250 ml bottles?

[Anonymous No.18677417]

>>18677381
Not that anon, but around me the selection isn't AMAZING, but you can find some okay stuff.

You do pay a premium for the smaller bottle though.

Robert Mondavi Cabernet is available in 3 sizes locally for me
375ml at $7
750ml at $12
1500ml at $20

[Anonymous No.18677531]

>>18677204
I imagine this will be really annoying after a while. maybe I should get a single induction cooktop

[Anonymous No.18677559]

>>18676442
do you regret getting the black version with the matte finish?

I wanted to buy the same one at first because it's nice that the whole thing is the same color and I prefer matte over annoying glossy normally but the glossy ones look so much better on pictures. I wonder if it's still like that when there are fingerprints on it etc.

[Anonymous No.18677580]

>>18675025
>"never cook with a wine you aren't willing to drink", and I can tell you that's absolute bullshit
it really isn't though if you take it literally and not as some hidden allusion to not using cheap wine. if you don't like the taste of a wine on its own you probably won't like it added into the dish itself - and I can say that from experience using franzia once to continue your example
that doesn't mean the wine has to be expensive, but you should be able to drink it on its own and enjoy it though

[Anonymous No.18677618]

>>18677559
If I could've gotten a different color for the price I would've but, $230 for the 7 quart and $100 for the 4 quart, it's hard to compete.

[Anonymous No.18677623]

>>18674823
I sometimes pour a little cooking sake into my boiling pasta

[Anonymous No.18677657]

>>18675025
You're a based pro for sure. I'm a self taught home cook and I use wines and beers in their proper recipes. White wines for risottos, fish, and billi bi, reds for brasato, beers for flamande, etc.

[Anonymous No.18677705]

A bit of scotch or whiskey added to sautéed steakhouse mushrooms adds a nice depth of flavor. It greatly enhances the earthiness while adding a bit of caramel and well… there’s no other word to describe it but “depth”

[Anonymous No.18677710]

>>18677705
nice little copper serving dishes, i want those

[Anonymous No.18677722]

>>18677006
If you learn {X TECHNICAL SKILL} in mostly easy, basic ways, just use it whenever. If you learn how to do {X} in more advanced ways, then using it depends on more subtle things.

For those that didn't comprehend: X can be cooking, or anything other skill that takes practice and learning. You can learn in classes or to a decent extent working through a lot of recipes and online demos.

[Anonymous No.18677726]

>>18677068
Not true, and this has been studied quite a bit. It takes a long-ass time for a significant amount of alcohol to boil/evaporate off, even at high heats. If you're cooking for someone like a Muslim or Mormon guest for example, you either have to only use low-alcohol cooking wines, or be using them in long-cooking processes (30+ minutes for a decent amount, 3 hours to get it all).
https://www.foodnetwork.com/how-to/packages/food-network-essentials/cooking-wine-does-alcohol-burn-off

[Anonymous No.18677733]

>>18677705
Cooking with spirits and fortified wines is completely different from cooking with wine.
They provide no acidity but are much more flavourful. You also add those rather in the end before serving.

[Anonymous No.18677820]

>>18674871
t. chef larper

[Anonymous No.18678071]

People have done tests and professional wine testers can't tell the difference between cheap and expensive wine, so does cost really matter?

[Anonymous No.18678196]

>>18678071
Need source on that since it's obviously false for almost every tasting, no matter if it's double-blind or not. Usually that kind of thing happens with like comparing wines by adjacent tiers, or between different regions (certain regions will be inherently cheaper [domestically at least] because, say, land taxes are cheaper or nonexistent).

As far as cooking with wine, I'd say avoid "cooking wines" altogether -- use vinegar where you need vinegar, and use 3-buck-Chuck (the famoous Charles Shaw at Trader Joes in the US, or an equivalent domestic thing at Aldi wherever else you may be) for almost all wine-needed cooking-wine uses.

[Anonymous No.18678207]

>>18678071
https://youtu.be/V6qDDGbSlic

[Anonymous No.18678210]

>>18678196
>>18678207

[Anonymous No.18678213]

>>18678196
Btw, Charles Shaw chardonnay is especially nice in the US because it's pretty much the only drinkable domestic cheap chardonnay that's not obnoxiously oaked (which for me makes it the only drinkable one). Their other whites taste watered-down imo. For red I use the cabernet, and they briefly had a table wine blend which was decent, and I think their shiraz is passable.

[Anonymous No.18678215]

When I cook with wine, I take a ride on the Night Train Express
Toot toot!

[Anonymous No.18678236]

>>18678207
Ok? A video from an unaccredited outlet (a format that can easily just selectively show the tasters who conform to the narrative and discard those who don't, doing an unblinded (single or double) tasting, of exactly one sample with no comparison or baseline established. It's basically the standard of an infomercial for the vineyard.

I know there are tests they have done of much higher quality with the decent results as I have described, but apparently you simply lack all sense of what good evidence actually is -- I imagine you are the type to regularly buy shit based on promises in infomercials and youtube sponsorships.

[Anonymous No.18678286]

>>18677580
>it really isn't though if you take it literally and not as some hidden allusion to not using cheap wine. if you don't like the taste of a wine on its own you probably won't like it added into the dish itself - and I can say that from experience using franzia once to continue your example

I dont even like drinking wine or alcohol in general, but i still like sauces made with wine.

[Anonymous No.18678493]

>>18678071
>professional wine testers can't tell the difference between cheap and expensive wine, so does cost really matter?
Wow, there are mid-range wines that people thought were better than some really expensive wines in a blind taste test, therefore everything is the same and price doesn't matter. You're a retard. 99.99999% of the time a $90 bottle of wine is going to be much better than a $19 bottle of wine. Are there going to be $300 bottles of wine that you don't think are much better than the $90 bottle of wine? Yeah, probably. So what. It's not like you're buying those anyway.

[Anonymous No.18678857]

sometimes i deglaze with white wine but i have started to deglaze pans with pickle juice if im making pan sauce and water if i just want to hydrate the brown bits.

[Anonymous No.18678864]

>>18678493
I've had really expensive wine at a friend's wedding and I'm telling you it's pretty much the same as the cheap stuff.
It's all just boozy grape juice. You gotta come to terms with that.

[Anonymous No.18678887]

>>18678864
>actually all pizza tastes the same
>actually all ice cream tastes the same
qualitative judgements aside, there's such a fucking staggering amount of difference in how wine is produced that you're retarded for suggesting it's all the same
sweet riesling tastes nothing like manzanilla sherry

[Anonymous No.18678896]

>>18678887
Yet they both taste exactly like boozy grape juice

[Anonymous No.18678931]

>>18678896
sherry doesnt taste like grapes or juice at all
riesling doesn't taste boozy
I understand you've tried five wines in your life and think you've mastered the category but you're no better than people who exclusively eat fast food since all food is basically the same

[Anonymous No.18678941]

For deglazing I swap between white wine, apple cider vinegar and water, and plain old water. Very occasionally red, but I find reds take over a dish more than whites.

>>18675025
"Never cook with a wine you aren't willing to drink" is fine advice if you're not a wine snob. Use a cheap wine that you don't mind drinking.

[Anonymous No.18678949]

>>18674823
I use wine/beer to make pan sauces after I sear meat.

[Anonymous No.18678953]

>>18676442
can you fit a whole small chicken into the right one?

[Anonymous No.18678956]

>>18678949
>>18675025
Also, I only make sauces with wines/beer I'm willing to drink because I'm drinking while I make them. Fuck it. Don't cook with shit you don't wanna drink unless you're a teetotaler. Have a glass while you're cooking whatever, fuck it.

[Anonymous No.18679126]

>>18677105
Browning does equal flaver you boring ass boiled potatoes eating retard.
Browned food isn't the same as burnt, one is mailard reaction, the other is turning into carbon and carcinogenic compounds

[Anonymous No.18679128]

>>18677327
If you were to separate the liquid from ice in that slushy, you'd get home made freeze-distilled brandy

[Anonymous No.18679156]

>>18676164
>the alcohol evaporates, wouldn't the alcohol-soluble compounds go with it?
Not significantly more than if you hadn't dissolved them in the first place. If you boil salt water, you don't get much salt in the steam.

[Anonymous No.18679187]

>>18679126
And it still gives you off flavours that aren't suited for every dish.

[Anonymous No.18679191]

>>18677417
>You do pay a premium for the smaller bottle though.
I mean, if any extra is going to go to waste anyway...

[Anonymous No.18679312]

>>18678953
Right one no. Left one yes.

[Anonymous No.18679327]

if alcohol is evaporating anyway why not use grape juice

[Anonymous No.18679342]

>>18679327
Grape juice is extremely sugary while wine is dry and contains almost no sugar.

[Anonymous No.18679354]

does it matter if you use alcohol free wine or am missing out? generally you'd cook it off anyway, right? I don't want to go to a liquor store just to buy it since I don't drink other than beer

[Anonymous No.18679357]

>>18674823
For some dishes, sure. I don't use it in everything.

[Anonymous No.18679378]

americans are THIS clueless about cooking with wine, holy shit.

[Anonymous No.18679399]

>>18679342
>wine is dry
Wine is wet, retard. It's a fucking liquid.

[Anonymous No.18679639]

>>18677006
that's pretty much how any knowledgeable answer to any question that isnt specific sounds for any field

[Anonymous No.18679651]

>>18674823
no anon, you cracked the case, all the recipes that call for wine are a part of the french cabal to trick you

[Anonymous No.18679673]

>>18679378
Yeah I'm sorry bro

[Anonymous No.18679779]

>>18679354
just use grape juice at that point

[Anonymous No.18680011]

>>18677006
Im not an exceptional cook but it doesn't take 100 iq to tell that certain flavours work better in some situations than others, retard niggercattle

[Anonymous No.18680140]

Wine filters me because I don't enjoy drinking it much, and I have a grudge against prissy ingredients that go bad quickly no matter how you store them. The logistics is just obnoxious. I just keep a small bottle of vermouth in the fridge to deglaze with.

[Anonymous No.18680163]

>>18680140
Vermouth goes bad just as quick.

[Anonymous No.18681115]

>>18680163
No, it doesn't. Vermouth is fortified, so while a regular bottle of opened wine will last maybe a week, a bottle of vermouth in the fridge will be good for a few months.

[Anonymous No.18681132]

>>18681115
Have you tasted the vermouth? They don't last months as taste almost just as bad as wines after that time.

[Anonymous No.18681144]

>>18681132
Yes, vermouth will go bad eventually. Doesn't change the fact that it takes a lot longer than regular wine.

[Anonymous No.18681545]

>>18674823
>sugar, acidity and alcohol dont improve the taste of most foods

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