Broth/Stock Thread

[Anonymous No.17577070]

A few years ago I started buying whole chickens and butchering them at home, freezing the meat in vacuum bags and saving the carcasses for stock. This is my most recent pot from a couple days ago. Afterwards I divide the broth into 1L containers and freeze it for use in soups, risottos, sauces, whatever.
Anyone else do this?
Happy to share advice and recipes.

[Anonymous No.17577077]

>>17577070
Is it worth the effort?

[Anonymous No.17577082]

>>17577070
As I go and live independently I’m going to start meal planning and in order to do that will probably start buying a lot more whole chickens.
Does it have to be raw or cant it be a rotisserie carcass? Also yeah, recipes would be great. Preferably affordable stuff that fits into that general idea of meal prepping.

[Anonymous No.17577094]

>>17577070
I do similar, to the point that I've successfully convinced some others to save their bones in their freezer for me. I'm actually waiting for some stock to cool right now before I put it in the fridge. I always have too much to freeze. Personally I never use fresh vegetables, instead I just throw any decent scraps or veg about to go off into a big gallon freezer bag.
>>17577077
As long as you have the freezer space and a large pot, yes.

>>17577082
Either. Rotisserie has a lot of salt from being brined, so you usually don't need to add any. Roasted bones tend to add more flavor, but I am lazy and usually just leave it on a simmer for at least a full 24 hours, or even longer. Just have to check the water level once in a while. No real recipes needed, it's pretty forgiving - water, bones and time are the main ingredients. I would not put in potato scraps, and I'm picky about what veg goes in - I'll use organic carrot peelings but not regular, and always washed veg scraps - dirt is not a good flavor.

[Anonymous No.17577099]

>>17577077
Depends on how much effort you need to put into it. I can break down a bird very quickly because I'm quite practiced at it, but I remember it was a little painstaking the first time I tried it. Tastes better than a cube and pays for itself, given the cost savings from home butchery.

The pot I'm using is 11L, and I usually get about 6-7L of stock from it. If I could use a bigger pot, it'd be more worth it, but a bigger one wouldn't fit on my range top. I probably wouldn't bother if I only had a smaller pot.

[Anonymous No.17577105]

>>17577070
>Anyone else do this?
I wish. My store doesn't have whole chickens except frozen and the frozen chickens cost as much per kg as chicken breast, which makes it uneconomical. I do regularly buy wings and thighs though and I keep those bones and scraps, freeze those and make stock from it.

[Anonymous No.17577113]

>>17577082
A rotisserie carcass might be a little too salty as >>17577094 has stated. Never tried doing it, so I wouldn't know. Generally, supermarket rotisserie chickens tend to be low quality birds. It might be a good noob-friendly way to start, but I'm not sure if the end result will be that much better than a stock cube.

[Anonymous No.17577115]

>>17577070
ive been making 4L batches with 2 chickens over 4-6 hours, have I been wasting flavor?

[Anonymous No.17577119]

>>17577113
Thanks to the collagen in the bones and cartilage, it's still far better than any bouillon.

Another side benefit: as the stock cools, you can skim off the fat layer and use that schmaltz for whatever you want.

[Anonymous No.17577128]

>>17577115
I'm doing 11L with 3-4 chickens (depending on size) plus 2 pork trotters for extra collagen with a cook time of about 8hrs. What you're doing sounds good to me.

[Anonymous No.17577137]

>>17577119
If I'm buying ducks, I will skin the carcasses after butchering them, render the fat off the skin, and keep it in a jar in my fridge for roast potatoes and other stuff. I don't bother re-using the chicken fat. Most of it gets discarded.

[Anonymous No.17577141]

Butchering birds is a bit of effort and some more substantial knives than a standard set help a lot for the larger ones, but it isn't super hard even with wild birds or less common domesticated ones. I rarely did the "use every last bit to the max for cooking" thing for poultry, but whenever I buy a ham I serve a ham steak dinner followed by a week of ham sandwiches and then a pot of ham bone soup for the next week. You could probably do similar with poultry.

[Anonymous No.17577198]

>>17577070
Is there some cabbage is that pot ? What about making some cabbage soup ?

[Anonymous No.17577207]

i do it but i reduce it down so that i can store it in my tiny ass freezer. Just add water when you need it.

[Anonymous No.17577315]

>>17577070
Buying whole chickens is stupid because you end up paying for all that useless breast. You're better off getting necks in bulk for stock.

[Anonymous No.17577356]

>>17577315
>breast
>useless
it's the best meat on the animal, retard

[Anonymous No.17577421]

>>17577207
Me too but mainly because it's so bland until I boil off about 33.33% of it. I'm upset this extra step is necessary.

[Anonymous No.17578648]

>>17577070
Family and I had crab in January, and after we were done I took the shells and uneaten scraps and made a stock out of it all with scraps of celery, onion, garlic, carrot, parsley, black peppercorn, and red peppers. Turned out nice and spicy, and used it as the liquid for seafood paella a day later.

[Anonymous No.17578661]

>>17577356
Its the most flavorless part. Chicken breasts are pricier because BS nutritional propaganda made people afraid of fat (especially animal fat) 30 years ago. Chicken thighs are super cheap and super flavorful.

[Anonymous No.17578666]

Using just carcasses and parures will leave you with flavourless swill that's not worth the effort. Always use meat in fonds. Also don't overload it with vegetables.

[Anonymous No.17578686]

Have you tried roasting the whole chicken first. Eating it and saving the bones/leftovers for stock?

[Anonymous No.17578771]

>roast carcasses, save fat
>Chop into chunks, bring to a simmer, skim
>Add black pepper, bayleaf, onion, carrot, celery, maybe garlic and leek
>Last 30 minutes add in parsley stalks
>Strain and simmer again until reduced enough to fit into ice cube trays, for me it's 3L to 600ml
>Freeze and put in ziploc bags
Alternatively put everything into an instant pot and pressure cook for 2 hours

[Anonymous No.17578779]

>>17578661
I wish this was true in my country, thighs are pricey here

[Anonymous No.17578781]

>>17577077
Yes, even a lazy pressure cooker stock is better than store bought

[Anonymous No.17578792]

>>17578779
I am in the US. Where do you live and what is the cheapest cut of chicken there? What about meat in general?

[Anonymous No.17578795]

>>17578781
Lazy pressure cooker anything is better than store bought

[Anonymous No.17578806]

>>17578792
Australia
Breast is 10/kg
Thigh is 12.50/kg
Beef is the cheapest meat here, I hear pork is very cheap in America and it makes me envious

[Anonymous No.17578811]

I've used Costco rotisserie chicken for stock
Works fantastic. I think I even like it better

[Anonymous No.17578831]

Can you use KFC bones for stock?

[Anonymous No.17578838]

>>17578831
Yeah, if people get weird about it when you ask for their chicken bones and refuse you can just take them out of the garbage later unless they're jerks and don't put them in the kfc bag before tossing them

[Anonymous No.17579191]

>>17578771
Does adding the parsley stalks at the end make much difference? I usually just add all my veg and aromatics after skimming and then forget about it. Sounds like a nice idea, I might try it.

>>17578666
I've heard chefs say this, but in my experience it's a load of crap. When I'm breaking down chickens, I'm getting whole pieces at maximum weight, not leaving meat behind. And yet, there's still more than enough meat on the carcass for a potent stock. Granted I may be able extract the same (or slightly better) product using one whole bird instead of 3 carcasses, but that's not the point of what I'm doing. I'm maximizing utility and minimizing wastage of my own home consumption, not running a ramen shop.

[Anonymous No.17579208]

>>17578666
straight up bullshit

[Anonymous No.17579235]

>>17579208
If you have no standards, yes.

[Anonymous No.17579236]

>>17578831
I wouldn't feel good about using deep fried bones in a stock.

[Anonymous No.17579245]

I save my stems from herbs over the summer and then I buy some bayleafs, cooking twine, and cheesecloth and make bouqet garni bundles, they add a lot of flavor to stock. However I do not make my own stock because I have better things to do with my life than stand at a hot boiling pot and skim chicken fat

[Anonymous No.17579260]

>>17579235
there's nothing wrong with boiling a piece of meat in the stock to eat it later on its own but you can achieve excellent results with just bones, skin, cartilage and the minuscule amount of muscle and tendons left over. Also a split pork trotter doesn't count

[Anonymous No.17579265]

>>17579245
I don't even skim my fonds. I cook them for hours, when ready filter them through a chinois in a different pot put it on the cellar floor so it can cool down and the next day i just take off the solidified fat. I also reduce them to a 1/4 so it's easier to freeze and use them. The fonds still come out pretty clear.

[Anonymous No.17579285]

>>17579265
I've heard that letting the pot cool down slowly at room temperature allows bacteria to grow and changes the taste of the broth.

I just plug my sink, put the pot inside it, and make a bain marie with cold water.

[Anonymous No.17579297]

>>17579285
Never had any issues. I couldn't fit the pot in the sink or fridge anyways. In the winter months i can let it cool outside at least.

[Anonymous No.17579305]

>>17579285
>I just plug my sink, put the pot inside it, and make a bain marie with cold water.
This is exactly what I do too. It cools down so much faster. Like 45 minutes to chill the whole pot to fridge temperature.

[Anonymous No.17579326]

>>17577070
I use stock pots like Marco
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blrNxVyNgPs

[Anonymous No.17579393]

>>17577070
>buying whole chickens and saving the carcasses for stock
Holy based.

[Anonymous No.17579859]

>>17578666
The fuck are parures?

[Anonymous No.17579928]

>>17577070
What's a good guide on how to butcher a chicken? I have a tiny kitchen, but a good chef's knife and a big ol pot. Kinda want to try this

[Anonymous No.17579950]

>>17579928
OP here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z7KU7WHr3M
Best youtube vid I've seen on the topic

I use a boning knife with a bendy metal blade. It's doable with a chef's knife, but more difficult. Also you really need to make sure your knife is sharpened, honed, aligned, etc. Trying to go at it with a knife that's even a tiny bit dull increases the hassle exponentially. Also, if you're doing multiple birds at a time, clean your knife between birds, or it won't cut as well.

[Anonymous No.17580055]

>>17579950
Thanks.
Just checked and my pot is 7.6 L is that big enough for stockmaking?

[Anonymous No.17580121]

>>17580055
Yeah of course. Really everything should be proportioned based on the size of your freezer, if you intend to freeze your stock (it'll only keep for a couple of days in the fridge).

[Anonymous No.17580337]

I buy whole chickens and butcher them as well but mostly because I feel like the meat is better. A good 3-4lb chicken will have superior quality meat compared to the huge mutant chicken parts you often find separately, no chance of wooden breast either.
I don't have enough freezer space to run a huge stock pot like that so I just stuff as much as I can into an instapot and pressure cook about 10 cups at a time. I honestly like the result better than a stock pot and it takes about 2 hours total and doesn't have to be watched

>>17578661
Nothing wrong with a chicken breast if it's bone-in, skin-on and not too big. Roasts up nice. All cuts are good in their own way and variety is appreciated.

[Anonymous No.17580371]

>>17579859
The stuff you cut off from meat. "Scraps".

[Anonymous No.17580405]

i make a fuck ton of stock
mostly can it in 500ml jars but i'll be making some later this week out of kfc and costco rotisserie leftovers that will be consumed right away
i always use a pressure cooker i find it gets consistently better results this way and i always remouillage and make a big pot of soup with that which i'll often can

[Anonymous No.17580457]

>>17577070
Get a bigger pot

[Anonymous No.17580471]

[Anonymous No.17580472]

>>17580457
If I got a bigger pot, I'd need a bigger freezer, which I don't have space for.

[Anonymous No.17580477]

>>17577070
can you do this on a gas stove? would feel weird about leaving a burner on for that long

[Anonymous No.17580485]

>>17580477
Of course

[Anonymous No.17580509]

>>17580472
You don't have space in that pot either

[Anonymous No.17580520]

>>17580485
neat

is there somewhere i can learn the basics? i want to start making my own broth and shit because soup is dead easy to freeze and eat all week

[Anonymous No.17580599]

>>17580509
Are you retarded or something?

>>17580520
There's a million vids to pick from on youtube. Just pick one method to try, see if it works for you, and change whatever you feel like changing the next time.

You basically just need a pot, some utensil to skim the scum, and freezer containers.

[Anonymous No.17580645]

Have to add star anise, tumeric and ginger to any stock. Insta delicious.

[Anonymous No.17580665]

>>17580599
>some utensil to skim the scum
Does this actually do anything? Honest question. Pressure cooked broth obviously can't be skimmed and no one seems to care. Isn't the scum just protein? Who cares if your broth is "cloudy" anyhow? "off flavors" sounds scary but also super vague and I'm not sure I believe it

[Anonymous No.17580689]

>>17580665
I honestly don't know. I've always done it the pretentious French way. I don't have a pressure cooker, but if I did, I'd be going balls deep in pork tonkotsu.

>>17580645
I will actually try adding turmeric and ginger next time, although I have a strong dislike of anything aniseed-flavored.

[Anonymous No.17580731]

>>17580599
no, I use a gas range

[Anonymous No.17580755]

>>17580665
not that guy, but my mother had always been autistically skimming the scum, claiming if it stayed for a few minutes it would ruin the taste. That scarred me for the next 10 years of my adult life, I never tried to make broth myself because I considered it some fucking black art.
Then I met my wife, who doesn't give a fuck and just lets the scum boil. Frankly, it didn't make any difference for me.

[Anonymous No.17580759]

>>17577070
So you have a big fucking pot, but how do you run all that through a sieve? Even after reducing down, it seems like I'd be a dumbass and accidentally spill it everywhere

[Anonymous No.17580811]

>>17580759
Scoop the solids out of the pot. Put them in a colander that's inside another bowl. Leave to drain.

While draining, cool the pot using your sink as a bain marie.

Once cooled, ladel from the pot through a fine mesh sieve into freezer containers. Do the same with whatever's left over from the meat bowl.

It's hardly rocket science.

[Anonymous No.17580844]

What are good scraps of meat/bones to make stock from?

So far I've done remains of roast chicken sans most the meat, pig trotters and lamb joint bones with some meat left on.

[Anonymous No.17581021]

>>17580759
Get one of these. Transfer the solid stuff with a ladle in the chinois and press it. Then discard and repeat until you have just a few solids still in the pot. After that you can just pour the whole pot in the sieve. The result will be even better if you also use a very fine sieve after that.
>>17580844
Veal shank is the ultimate meat choice.

[Anonymous No.17581148]

>>17581021
I love osso bucco a la milanese too much to ever consider using those in a stock. Plus if you're going full veal, you'd need joint bones, and the whole process takes so much longer to get to the point where you actually have a good fond. I'm not sure if it's really worth it for a home cook. Bird broths are simple and easy.

[Anonymous No.17581187]

>>17577137
Why not eat the fat. It also has a lot of healthy properties to it

[Anonymous No.17581188]

>>17581148
Shanks have enough bones. And of course it's worth to do it at home although it's much more expensive and needs to be cooked for 12+ hours. Veal fond is also neutral and can be used for everything. E.g. Escoffier recipes where he uses it for poultry all the time instead of poultry fond.

[Anonymous No.17581239]

>>17581187
The whole point is to use the fat in future cooking. If you leave the skin on a duck carcass and then make a duck stock, it'll have ridiculous amounts of fat in it, you'll end up discarding much of the fat while skimming, and whatever's left will separate from the stock and solidify as it's refrigerating anyway.

Better to skin the carcass to render the fat cleanly and preserve it.

>>17581188
The bones in the shanks are low in collagen compared to joint bones. Alex on Youtube did a really good series about demi glace and these issues.

[Anonymous No.17581249]

>>17581239
Demi glace is thickened with roux anyways. You can also throw in pork rind or ham bones if you want more collagen.

[Anonymous No.17581268]

>>17581249
>Demi glace is thickened with roux
Uhh, no it isn't. It should thicken and turn to gelatin simply from the reduction and the high levels of collagen.

[Anonymous No.17581388]

>>17577082
>Does it have to be raw or cant it be a rotisserie carcass?
Rotisserie carcasses are fine. It doesn't have to be raw meat. Most of the "flavor" in stock comes from the gelatin in the bones anyway.

[Anonymous No.17581411]

>>17581268
Traditional demi glace is made from one part each sauce espagnole (roux based) and a strong fond. If you don't use sauce espagnole and just reduce a fond you have a glace.

[Anonymous No.17581435]

>>17581411
You're right, I stand corrected.

[Anonymous No.17581615]

Are the vegetables even noticeable vs a pure bones only chicken stock?

[Anonymous No.17581639]

>>17580371
Just say off-cuts you pretentious faggot

[Anonymous No.17581642]

>>17581615
Yes, you could easily ruin a delicious bone stock with just a couple too many nasty gross vegetables. Carrots are cheap, don't use scraps and always peel them.

[Anonymous No.17581702]

>>17581615
maybe if you have a super pallet
anything beyond a quartered onion and two carrots is overkill

[Anonymous No.17581732]

>>17581702
I was watching some vids on yt because of this thread, and most of them like leek, black pepper kernels, and thyme in there with carrot and onion

[Anonymous No.17581744]

>>17581732
Don't forget celery. Especially any leafy parts you're lucky to get. Thyme should go with parsley and bay leaf in the last hour of simmering.

[Anonymous No.17582156]

>>17581732
Leek is nice because it slightly adds to the gelatin. I rarely have leek in my kitchen, so I just substitute it with more onion. Carrot adds sweetness, so be careful not to go overboard with it. Celery is necessary as >>17581744 has said. Thyme, parsley, and bay leaf are essential IMO. I also put a entire small bulb of garlic, cut horizontally, in mine plus a teaspoon of peppercorns as you've mentioned.

One very important thing to note is to never ever add salt to a stock. Add salt when cooking with the stock, not when making the stock.

[Anonymous No.17583206]

>>17580645
I just use fennel fronds every now and again but only when I'm using the stock for a handful of particular dishes.

[Anonymous No.17583216]

How are chicken feet compared to caracasses/necks/wings? I can get a shitload of them for cheap and they sound like they would add a whole bunch of gelatin to the stock.

[Anonymous No.17583242]

So has anyone SUCCESSFULLY gone the egg white route of removing cloudiness from prepared stock? I swear I've tried it at least 4 times now and it stays just as cloudy as the day I first boiled it, and at this point it just feels like an old wives tale that has never effectively worked for me. As long as it tastes good I quite frankly don't give a fuck about the opaqueness of the stock.

[Anonymous No.17583255]

>>17579191
some say that fresh herbs need less time or they'll go bitter. do some experimenting

[Anonymous No.17583259]

>>17583242
Also use lean ground meat. You have to cool everything down and then let the heat rise very slowly.
Personally i never do it in fonds, because the sauces i am gonna cook with them aren't coming out clear anyways. It's just useful if you want to flex with a clear consommé.

[Anonymous No.17583309]

>>17580665
the scrum is waste (blood mostly). I can't really explain why you have to skim but you don't have to autistically stay in front of your pot. Come back every hour to skim
Also my grandpapa, grandmama 1bd every old people at my work (french butcher) DO skim their broth and said it taste better

[Anonymous No.17583434]

I have a big tupperware full of pork skin, fat and bones in the freezer.
Should I make tonkotsu broth or something else?

[Anonymous No.17583471]

>>17577105
So you cannot roast a chicken yourself where you live. What kind of dystopian hellhole would this be in?

[Anonymous No.17583476]

what are some good uses for seafood stock other than cooking rice with it?

[Anonymous No.17583482]

>>17583216
They're great, as long as you clean them and cut off the toenails.

>>17583476
Fish soup

[Anonymous No.17583492]

>>17583476
Sauces for fish obviously. In traditional cuisines from christian countries there are plenty sauces for fasting times. Examples would be following sauces: Bercy, Bretonne, Conatière, Chaud-froid maigre, Livonienne, Matelote blanche, Mornay, Normande, Régence or vin blanc.

[Anonymous No.17583495]

>>17583216
Good for extra gelatin, but don't use them by themselves as they dont have much flavour

[Anonymous No.17583498]

>>17583242
Use a raft. Get minced meat of what stock it is, a mirepoix and egg white, blitz it in a food processor. Add it to cold stock and slowly bring it to a simmer. All the cloudiness will stick to the raft. Carefully remove and you will have a crystal clear stock
No it's not worth the effort or cost

[Anonymous No.17583506]

god i wish my store would sell whole chickens with the neck, innards and feet
they can keep the feathers desu

[Anonymous No.17583910]

>>17577077
i think you overestimate how much effort it takes to make stock, 5 mins of hands on work

[Anonymous No.17583916]

>>17583434
yes but roast everything first

[Anonymous No.17584061]

>>17583910
It's about 5mins of ingredient prep, 20mins of skimming, 20-30 mins of cooling it down, 15mins of sieving into containers, and 15mins of cleanup. The rest of the cooking time is autopilot, so you can ignore the pot.

Doing it in a pressure cooker eliminates the 20mins of skimming time. Nothing else changes.

Don't bullshit the guy. It's not a negligible effort.

[Anonymous No.17584250]

If I have a carcass from a store bought rotisserie chicken, how long and at what temps should I roast it in the oven before making stock with it?

[Anonymous No.17584255]

>>17584250
Zero, it's already roasted

[Anonymous No.17584258]

>>17584250
i don't bother with stuff that's already been cooked but if you like the flavor you can make it as dark as you want

[Anonymous No.17584269]

>>17584250
If any bits get over-roasted it gives a really overpowering charred ashy flavor to the whole soup. You're playing a dangerous game double roasting a chicken.

[Anonymous No.17584272]

>>17584061
>Chop veg, 2 minutes
>Dump into pot, fill with water and put onto low heat, 1 minute. Then X hours of passive simmering
>Strain into second pot, 30 seconds
>Portion, 2 minutes
>Cool on bench, 30 minutes passive
> Put away, 30 seconds
Don't over think it