Wetstones

[Anonymous No.16825355]

How do they work? What techniques should I avoid as a noob?

[Anonymous No.16825401]

>>16825355
>How do they work?
By scraping away metal
>What techniques should I avoid as a noob?
Try to avoid fucking up.

Seriously though, just watch some YouTube tutorials, and use a cheap/shitty knife for practice. That way you can try different techniques, and then just blunt the edge and practice some more.

[Anonymous No.16825460]

Keep it stable and not slipping. Do not hold up with one hand while sharpening unless you have high testosterone. Don't neglect the tip. Use good light to inspect the edge it it catches light (point end away from you)

[Anonymous No.16826283]

>>16825355
I use three stones , a medium India ( brown) , a soft Arkansas ( white ) and a true hard Arkansas ( black and white) . I set the edge with the India stone ( establish a defect free edge at the desired angle) . I then use the finer stones to polish the edge at slightly steeper angles . The shallower the angle the sharper the edge will be ( if the steel is strong enough to support it ) and the steeper the angle the more durable the edge . The key skill I’ve tried to develop is holding the knife at a consistent angle each stroke until the next stone .

[Anonymous No.16826303]

>>16825355
Are you a drooling retard? If not it's very simple.

[Anonymous No.16826311]

>>16826303
>Are you a drooling retard?
Yes I am, which is why I came to /ck/ for advice on sharpening my knives.

[Anonymous No.16826319]

>>16826303
>he literally doesn’t know the ancient Japanese “drooling retard” sharpening technique
Wetting the stone with drool is far superior to water, knifelet.

[Anonymous No.16826331]

Speaking of wetting the stone, why do we do this? Is it just to reduce temperatures from friction or to preserve the stone or both?

[Anonymous No.16826380]

>>16826331
Oil or water , depending on the type of stone stops the stone from clogging up with metal particles . I believe the lubricant also facilitates even cutting of the metal by the particles in the stone by allowing the edge to glide smoothly across the stone .

[Anonymous No.16826389]

>>16826283
Mine is similar except I start with sandstones. I have two so I can lap them together and flatten each faces. I rub a smaller piece of sand stone to release free grit. I thought if I am using arks and washitas might as well go completely natural.

[Anonymous No.16826392]

>>16826389
OP here. is a diamond lapping plate really necessary or can I get away with sandpaper and compressed air?

[Anonymous No.16826398]

>>16826319
>He doesn't infuse his soul into the stone with his cum
NGMI

[Anonymous No.16826402]

>>16826398
>getting your whetstone pregnant
Enjoy paying child support

[Anonymous No.16826407]

>>16826402
These bitches are $50 a pop, I hope I can breed new ones for free.

[Anonymous No.16826452]

>>16826389
I have an odd attachment to Arkansas stones , I bought a true hard Arkansas stone from Dan’s instead of a translucent or a black only because they’re multicolored and are usually part translucent .

[Anonymous No.16826553]

>>16825355
The biggest tip for me was that you are supposed to apply pressure on the edge trailing stroke, and not apply pressure on both the forward and backward strokes.

https://youtu.be/o4XgLgvqjYk?t=1067

[Anonymous No.16826576]

>>16826311
Just use a belt sander.

[Anonymous No.16826601]

>>16826576
You need watercooling. Belt sanders ruin the temper right at the edge.

[Anonymous No.16826625]

>>16826392
Not necessary. There are other ways of flattening, but maybe diamond is more convenient or effective. I never used one because they are too expensive, but if you can afford it, that is up to you. Maybe they get the stone more precisely flat, but that is more useful for sharpening tools for precision woodworkers. There are some people who use up their stones evenly and never flatten after an initial flattening, especially with hard natural stones. Depends on the stone too.

[Anonymous No.16826644]

>>16825401
fpbp
All the other advice is good, but if you've never sharpened a knife before then getting a cheap soft one to fuck around with will take a lot of the mystery out of it.

[Anonymous No.16826649]

>>16826601
>You need watercooling.
A spray bottle solves that.
>Belt sanders ruin the temper right at the edge.
Not stabbing the tip of the blade into the sanding element solves that. It should be a non issue if you already are able to avoid doing it while using a whetstone.

[Anonymous No.16826673]

>>16826649
A spray bottle does not solve that when using a belt sander. You need the edge to be in water.

Even a piece of sandpaper will create surface level heat that is higher than most knives are tempered at.

Also do you know what it means to temper a knife?

[Anonymous No.16826692]

>>16826452
Is there much of a difference at those levels of hardness? I have a vintage washita and supposedly they get right up to the sharpness of hard arkansas except for the very hardest ones and still remove material pretty quickly, depending on how it is prepared, but I have not exploited that feature too much.

[Anonymous No.16826695]

>>16826673
No fucking way, really? Tempering's like 200˚C+, can you hit that just sanding a knife?

[Anonymous No.16826726]

>>16826673
Not the anon you’re debating with, but do you believe that wheel and belt sharpeners ruin the temper?
The “nicest” knife I own was one I had made by a smith in Sakai, Osaka.
His shop used a series of stone wheel sharpeners to form the final edge.

[Anonymous No.16826727]

>>16826695
There's a study I read that measured heat at the surface of steel being sanded and it got extremely hot for a miniscule amount of time and a very shallow depth.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/04/08/does-sharpening-with-a-grinder-ruin-your-edge/

This has edge retention testing of that worksharp belt grinder that shows what I'm talking about.

[Anonymous No.16826732]

>>16826726
Were those stone wheels using water?

[Anonymous No.16826783]

>>16826727
Wow, that makes sense that you'd get point heating but I'm surprised by the extent. Thanks for the link.

[Anonymous No.16826817]

>>16826673
>A spray bottle does not solve that when using a belt sander. You need the edge to be in water.
Nah a spray bottle is good enough (if you even need to)
>Even a piece of sandpaper will create surface level heat that is higher than most knives are tempered at
Just use the spray bottle, or do what most people do, and don't keep the blade on the sandpaper long enough to get hot.
>Also do you know what it means to temper a knife?
Do you even know how to use tools, and make things like a knife?

[Anonymous No.16826833]

>>16826732
Just an occasional splash from a bottle.
But they didn’t maintain blade contact for more than a few seconds at any time before taking a moment to look at & feel the edge.

[Anonymous No.16826836]

>>16826817
Did you read the link I posted? >>16826727

And yes. I make knives professionally, my guy.

My point specifically is that you will ruin your temper at the very edge if you use any sort of non cooled mechanical grinding. Again check the link I posted if you need your study to prove my point.

[Anonymous No.16826838]

>>16826833
>Just an occasional splash from a bottle.
By which I mean pouring from a water bottle, not spraying from a spray bottle.

[Anonymous No.16826841]

>>16826727
Seems less scientific, and more a long the lines of confirmation bias.
It kind of reminded me of an infomericial where every one retards out when trying to do something by normal means.

[Anonymous No.16826849]

>>16826836
Yea your link was retarded, and so are you.

[Anonymous No.16826858]

>>16826841
What are you talking about? They use standardized testing methods to test and prove their hypothesis.

[Anonymous No.16826860]

>>16826836
>And yes. I make knives professionally, my guy.
Show me.

[Anonymous No.16826878]

>>16826860
Here's the last one I finished.

[Anonymous No.16826880]

>>16826858
They used standardized test to confirm their preconception.
>le gorilla fist this with 220grit
>le use le finesse and technique on this le old fashion stone
>le look there was le chip on le sharp angled edge blade from le modern things
Also where's the peer review?

[Anonymous No.16826882]

>>16826878
Where do you sell?

[Anonymous No.16826885]

>>16826878
And here's the nice picture I took of it.

[Anonymous No.16826898]

>>16826692
The true hard is a nice step up from the soft . My phone can easily show the pores in the soft but doesn’t have enough resolution to see any in the true hard .

[Anonymous No.16826899]

>>16826882
Through a couple social media sites atm. Still relatively new to the selling, but overall it's going well. I'm doing a commision for someone who wanted a knife on ck.

[Anonymous No.16826901]

>>16826885
Can I buy one?

[Anonymous No.16826911]

>>16826899
Do you have any santoku in "damascus" style recreation?

[Anonymous No.16826934]

>>16826901
Yeah I can do a custom for you if you're okay with giving out your email. Generally my prices are 250-400 for a chef's knife. This can go up a lot depending on handle material and cmpplexity of knife. For example I'm hoping to get 1200-1500 for the knife I showed you.

>>16826911
I'm not equipped to do damascus yet, but as you can see I can make some pretty sweet hamons. I'm planning on getting a 25 ton forge press as my next big purchase. They're like 7-8k.

[Anonymous No.16826949]

>>16826934
Here's a more basic knife I made that was around 250. 26c3 steel with desert ironwood handle.

[Anonymous No.16827401]

>>16826727
no one cares
spyderco uses a belt sander and a chimp to sharpen their knives

[Anonymous No.16827467]

>>16827401
Did you know most knives perform a lot better after a couple sharpenings because the factory uses belts to sharpen their knives?

[Anonymous No.16827600]

>>16827467
>buy Dovo straight razor
>duller than some pocket knives
>finally get it uncomfortably shaving sharp
>fuck it, use Feather blades from Japan instead of lazy German shit
Disgusting. A lot of knife manufacturers need to be thrown into the woodchipper feet first after we're done with the pedos.

[Anonymous No.16827637]

>>16827600
Lol. I think using a lil chromox paste on a strop can help with comfort. Or you can spend hundreds on japanese natural stones to get extremely sharp edges that are super comfy.

It's kind of understandable that mass produced knives can't really be sharpened by hand. I mean it takes me a good 10-30mins to just establish the bevel on knives and another 10 or more to obtain the edge I want off my Jnats. I bet people would pay more for a beltless sharpen if it was offered.

[Anonymous No.16827686]

>>16827467
It's because the factories aren't using higher grit paper. The $50-$200 memerocks are around 5000 grit, and factories sharpen at 2000 grit without stropping.

[Anonymous No.16827707]

>>16827686
Im talking about edge retention not sharpness. Lower grit sharpening is actually a little better for edge retention. The grinding belts ruin the temper at the microscopic edge. If you have a piece of metal thinner than a human hair it doesn't take much energy to make that metal hot enough to mess the temper up.

[Anonymous No.16827724]

>>16827707
Edge retention is mostly from edge shape (all other things being equal, and consistent).
More material = better edge retention

[Anonymous No.16827728]

>>16825355
just realized theyre called WETstones and you get them WET to sharpen the knife
that's crazy lol

[Anonymous No.16827740]

>>16827724
Yes, but things are not equal when the edge is burnt out because you overheated it.

[Anonymous No.16827744]

From my amateurish experience, the best thing you can do for casual sharpening is to get a low grit stone for reprofiling, a medium grit stone for evening out the edge, and a strop to remove the burr and actually sharpen the knife.
Probably some people with a lot of experience can achieve better (or more likely longer lasting) results on high grit stones but for a casual user it's a waste of time. You can literally get to "shaving sharp" by using just a fucking brick and a strop.

[Anonymous No.16827747]

>>16827728
No, but the coincidence is a little funny.

[Anonymous No.16827760]

You can learn most of the technique with sandpaper glued to strips of wood.

[Anonymous No.16827770]

>>16827744
If you maintain your knives well all you need is a 1-1.5k stone. It takes me about 2-5 minutes to sharpen a knife to shaving sharp. 500 grit for removing chips can be added as well. 5k if you're a bit autistic, but almost useless for general kitchen knife sharpening.

[Anonymous No.16827781]

>>16827740
There's methods to minimize the heat transfered, and retained anon. Still the main thing needed is human attention, and human attention + high grit abbrassives cost more money, so it's not cost effective for them to completely sharpen knives. The limit is mostly financial, and not because using machinery is less effective.

[Anonymous No.16827800]

>>16827781
It's a well understood phenomenon that factory knives will improve their edge retention after being resharpened 1-3 times. I saw a video of the syperco factory and a robot arm was setting the bevel with what looked to be a rubberized abrasive wheel. Then a person does final polish and sharpen. They'll use a high grit belt and then probably a hard wheel with buffing compound on it to polish the edge. Go do some searching on blade forums, youtube etc and you'll see many examples of improved edge retention after multiple sharpenings.

[Anonymous No.16827825]

>>16827800
>research
>youtube
I'll pass, but my theory is that they are changing the overall shape, and shortening the distance from the edge which places the edges near a slightly thicker portion of the blade giving it more material to reinfirce the blade.

[Anonymous No.16827850]

>>16827825
The messed up temper is only on the very edge and on a thin layer of the edge bevel. There's a guy who does testing on factory vs. First sharpening and he keeps all edge geometry the same. He will usually get around 2x the edge retention after 1 sharpening. A miniscule change like you're describing will not account for such a dramatic improvement.

[Anonymous No.16827863]

>>16827850
I don't even understand why I bothered posting. Good luck on your knife sales anon.

[Anonymous No.16827945]

>>16827863
Thans bro. You aren't wrong btw. It's called a micro bevel or secondary bevel and it's a fairly common way to strengthen an edge. A lot of people will do that with single bevel knives.

[Anonymous No.16828618]

>>16825355
It is important to fix the stone flat.