Roux Help

[Anonymous No.16122548]

Does anyone know what im doing wrong when making a Roux? Every time a recipe calls for one the one I make always clumps together. Its usually 2TBS Butter and 2TBS flower but it always clumps for me. Is it the way I apply it? Should I sprinkle it on instead of putting it in the middle of the melted butter and stirring? Any help is much appreciated.

[Anonymous No.16122575]

make better

[Anonymous No.16122609]

>>16122548
Yea, add flour a little at a time. Add more as it dissolves.

[Anonymous No.16122640]

>>16122548
Stop blasting it with high heat, you mong

[Anonymous No.16122648]

>>16122548
sifter

[Anonymous No.16122655]

>>16122548
do it at a lower heat, itll take longer but wont burn. when you become better at it you can get it done in like 5 min blasted to fuck but dont try that when ur just starting out. maybe try a different type of fat instead of butter?

[Anonymous No.16122664]

>>16122609
>>16122648
>>16122655

Thank you

>>16122575
>>16122640
Not helpful also done on medium heat.

[Anonymous No.16122679]

>actual cooking technique thread on /ck/

Amazing

[Anonymous No.16122699]

>>16122664
WELL THEN MEDIUM WAS CLEARLY TOO MUCH WASN'T IT YOU DONKEY

[Anonymous No.16122708]

Sprinkle it evenly over your butter, and make sure your liquid is very cold when you add it after the butter and flour combine. Hot roux, cold milk, no lumps.

[Anonymous No.16122717]

>>16122548
Classic roux recipe is 50/50 by weight flour/butter. Anon said back off on the heat, good advice. Too much heat can make the starch in the flour seize. Honestly the butter just has to be liquid to work, it will cook in the sauce, because as you already know a roux based has to be boiled to reach full thickening power.
Personally I add flour until the consistency is like wet sand, hard to stir and firm. So less is needed and my final sauce can admit more butter or fat at the finish.
Anon what are your roux based concerns? Linecookfag here ama

[Anonymous No.16122724]

>>16122548
Do the measurement by weight, not by volume, also. Flour compacts and you'll get too much flour if you just do volume.

[Anonymous No.16122730]

>>16122548
>always clumps for me.
so mix it and break the lumps

[Anonymous No.16122749]

>>16122548
Clumping is normal and it doesn't really matter. When you add a small amount of liquid and whisk the clumps will break apart. Just make sure not to add too much liquid at one time, you want to the mixture to be thick enough for the friction to break up the lumps. Then you can add more liquid and repeat.

[Anonymous No.16122811]

>>16122548
>2TBS flower

what kinda flowers you using?

[Anonymous No.16122878]

>>16122609
you should not add flour a little at a time. you're thinking of the LIQUID.

>>16122548
when using butter to make a roux, i would wait until the butter has evaporated most of its water out (butter is about 20% water) before adding in the flour. and cook the flour until it starts to turn golden. cooking the flour is important because you don't want raw flour taste in your sauce. raw flour tastes like glue. this is what the purpose of a roux is.

add warm or hot liquid to the roux rather than cold liquid if you can. if your liquid is cold you can prevent lumps by adding it little by little. add a little bit of cold liquid and stir until absorbed by the flour, add a little more and stir until absorbed, and so on until all the liquid is in.

>>16122640
>>16122699
higher heat doesn't cause lumps. the fuck are you on about?

>>16122708
>Hot roux, cold milk, no lumps.
wrong. that is chef mythology. cold liquid causes the butter to resolidify and clump. notice how all the "cold liquid to hot roux" fags still add the liquid in stages because that is actually what is saving them from the clumps. you don't have to worry about this when using hot liquid.

>>16122724
>do the measurement by weight, not by volume
there is no advantage gained by measuring the flour by weight rather than volume when making a roux, and that has NOTHING to do with clumping.

[Anonymous No.16122898]

>>16122878 (continued)
>i would wait until the butter has evaporated most of its water out before adding in the flour.
i say this because flour sticks together due to gluten formation, and gluten formation occurs in flour when water is introduced to it. and when gluten formation occurs before you add in your liquid to the roux, the flour clumps together and that's how you get a lumpy sauce.

so adding the flour after the butter has evaporated at least most of its water out will prevent gluten formation in the flour thus lessen the chance of lumps from forming.

or you can use oil instead of butter because oil has no water in it.

also be careful not to burn the butter, which can happen if you let it go on the hot pan for too long. don't worry about waiting until ALL the water has evaporated out of the butter before adding the flour. just until enough of the water is gone to where it looks like it's not boiling and bubbling as much.

also be sure to keep it moving to help avoid burning it too quickly in the hot pan. this goes for the butter and the flour. stirring frequently and swirling the pan and generally keeping things moving means things wont settle to the bottom of the pan and burn as fast.

[Anonymous No.16122961]

>>16122898
Thank you for the very detailed response next time a take a crack at it Ill remember to do all this and see if the results are better for me.

[Anonymous No.16122963]

>>16122648
you don't need to use a sifter, like ever. that doesn't prevent lumps. gluten formation is what causes lumps and sifters don't affect that.

[Anonymous No.16123000]

>>16122548
bro, you gotta learn the secret of pasta water

[Anonymous No.16123006]

>>16122724
a roux does not need to be perfectly 50/50 Heston, just get some fat and some flour and cook it

[Anonymous No.16123007]

>>16123000
this anon isn't being helpful at all.

pasta water is rich in starch (from the pasta that was cooked in it) which helps to emulsify sauces.
but there's already starch in a roux in the form of flour, so starchy liquid is not needed.

and pasta water only works for certain dishes. you can't add pasta water to a bechamel, for instance. OP didn't even say what kind of sauce he is making, only that he needs help preventing lumps, and pasta water doesn't help with that at all. in fact. this anon bringing it up as help for OP is so stupid that i am worried about that this anon is just mentally retarded.

[Anonymous No.16123014]

>>16122717
I was just concerned because everytime I was making it it would clump up into doe balls. This has been the only things ive actually struggled on when it comes to cooking. Thanks for the tips!

[Anonymous No.16123027]

>>16123014
that anon is wrong on a few things.

>>16122717
>Too much heat can make the starch in the flour seize.
this isn't a thing. flour only *clumps*, and that is due to gluten formation that results from water mixing with the flour. the only concern with higher heat in making a roux is your butter and flour burning.

>it will cook in the sauce, because as you already know a roux based has to be boiled to reach full thickening power.
a roux does indeed have to be boiled to reach its full thickening potential, but the unpleasant raw flour taste takes a lot longer to cook out by mere boiling than from toasting it in the hot fat. you'd have to boil it for a long time whereas toasting the flour in the hot roux only takes a few minutes depending on the heat.

[Anonymous No.16123031]

>>16123014
it clumps into dough balls because there's still water in the butter that hasn't had a chance to evaporate out yet when you add the flour

[Anonymous No.16123038]

>>16122548
It will clump up and then start to spread out and loosen.
Doesn't matter if its clumped anyhow. As long as when you add your liquid it doesn't form lumps in the mix its fine.

[Anonymous No.16123052]

>>16122548
Use clarified butter, the water content of regular butter can activate gluten

[Anonymous No.16123114]

>>16123052
From what a few Anons are telling me I can still buy any butter its just that I have to let it heat a bit more for the water to evaporate before I add my flower. Not too difficult at all really.

[Anonymous No.16123146]

>>16123114
you could use regular butter and let some of its water evaporate out first, but clarified butter makes everything easier because you don't have to worry about that, it wont burn, and you can use much higher heat with it as if it were oil. just makes it all easier.

[Anonymous No.16124496]

>>16122575
this

[Anonymous No.16124501]

>>16122548
>2TBS flower
are you using roses or daffodils (it makes a difference).

retard.

[Anonymous No.16124508]

>>16122548
it's really simple (simpleton) melt your butter and add flour till it's the right consistency, ignore the exact measurements.

[Anonymous No.16124515]

>>16122548
more butter less flour, stir it well and yeah do it bit by bit don't just throw a handful of flour in the middle.

[Anonymous No.16124623]

>>16124501
Suck my ass

[Anonymous No.16124704]

>>16122548
easiest way is make it ten times in a row experimenting to practise.
youre gonna waste butter but afterwards you will never have roux problem again.

[Anonymous No.16124708]

>>16122548
You mean it gets lumpy after adding the liquid and cooking it for awhile right?
if its just the flourbutter lumpy then it doesnt matter, the liquid will dissolve the lumpers.

[Anonymous No.16124709]

>>16122548
It's pretty easy. Just use 50/50 butter/flour by weight, not volume (important). Start by placing your pan over a medium heat and gently melting the butter until it begins to bubble slightly around the edges, then you put your flour it and mix it together using a wooden spoon (it's better than a whisk at this stage), then you want to cook it for a few minutes while continuously moving it around and making sure to scrape the edges and corners of your pan. You then want to add your liquid slowly, a bit at a time. You basically add a tiny bit of liquid, then stir until it thickens up and you can knock the lumps out of it, and then you add a bit more liquid and repeat the same, eventually switching to a whisk when appropriate. It's important that you whisk out any lumps at these early stages, and again making sure to scrape the sides and corners of your pan. It's much easier to create a silky smooth sauce at this stage when it's extremely thick and not loose after all the liquid has been added. Just continue to do this until all the liquid is added and then stir while bringing up to the heat and let simmer for 5 minutes or until thickened to your liking. Simple.

Another thing you can do, but i've never had the need to, is transfer it all into a blender if your sauce is particularly lumpy because you messed up. I've seen chefs do this, but again, i've never had to myself, but maybe you could try if you still can't get it to work.

[Anonymous No.16124718]

>>16122878
>there is no advantage gained by measuring the flour by weight rather than volume when making a roux, and that has NOTHING to do with clumping.
This is wrong. 50g of butter and 50g of flour is roughly 4 tablespoons of butter and 6 tablespoons of flour. That's a huge difference and definitely too much flour.

[Anonymous No.16124726]

>>16122548
Medium-high heat, 50/50 by weight. /Thread

[Anonymous No.16124728]

>>16122878
>there is no advantage gained by measuring the flour by weight rather than volume when making a roux, and that has NOTHING to do with clumping.
50g of butter and 50g of flour is roughly 4 tablespoons of butter and 6 tablespoons of flour. That's a huge difference. So yeah, it does matter, maybe not to clumping but to the effectiveness of your roux.

[Anonymous No.16124802]

>>16122724
you don't have to measure a thing, numbnuts. a roux is about as measurement-sensitive as a salad.

[Anonymous No.16124809]

>>16123146
or just use lard like an intelligent person.

[Anonymous No.16125011]

>>16124809
I threw up a little in my mouth.

[Anonymous No.16125017]

>>16122655
>when you become better at it you can get it done in like 5 min blasted to fuck
I can make a cheese sauce from scratch with a roux base in 4-5 minutes.

[Anonymous No.16125182]

>>16125011
tastelet

[Anonymous No.16125598]

>>16124809
Ewwwww

[Anonymous No.16125757]

>>16122717
>ama
Completely unrelated, but what technique would you recomend to ensure that chicken pieces coated in batter retain a degree of 'crispness' for as long as possible when served in, for example, an orange chicken sauce?

[Anonymous No.16125956]

>>16125757
Ensure that the fried item is cooked to a degree of crispiness to your taste, possibly slightly crisper than if you were to serve it without being tossed in sauce. Second, hold said item on a wire rack to ensure it gets good airflow as it cools, so when time comes to sauce it up, it will retain the highest degree of dryness possible.

[Anonymous No.16125982]

>>16125956
Thank you amaAnon.

[Anonymous No.16125991]

Did you try putting Coca Cola syrup in it? The fags on this board think you should put sugar in red sauce so maybe slopping some corn syrup in there will “balance out the acidity”

[Anonymous No.16126651]

>>16125991
No because thankfully Im not that retarded.

[Anonymous No.16126678]

>>16124728
wrong bitch. even if it was 100g flour for 50g butter, the flour would still clump up if you added it to butter that hasnt had most of its water evaporated out, and it wont clump if added to fat with no water in it and if you add the liquid slowly in stages.
and two tablespoons doesnt make that much of a difference anyway. if anything less flour than fat by weight makes a better roux. and when you take into account that butter is 20% water then yeah measuring by volume gives you more equal parts fat and flour by weight

weight doesnt do shit for clumps.

and the effectiveness of the roux depends just as much on the cooking of the flour as the amount of flour. The more you cook the flour and darker brown it gets the less thickening power it has.

Measure by weight fags are so reddit and wrong about everything

[Anonymous No.16126689]

>>16124809
i’d rather not use spic cooking techniques

[Anonymous No.16126853]

>>16122548
Try weighing your flour.

[Anonymous No.16126878]

>>16126853
why? explain

[Anonymous No.16126914]

>>16122548
Wtf I suggest to alot of new people at my class to make knobbed butter when learning roux as it's fine for home cooks just a little impractical for service workers you whip even amounts of flour and butter together until the flour is evenly dispersed then chill it. It's raw roux that you don't have to measure as you go anymore once the pan is hot and helps you get a feel for the way roux reacts to the heat and practice thickening with it. Eventually you are confident enough that premixing cold isn't an issue, it never clumps up as it's pretty much already dispersed before the butter even gets hot most of my students only need to make 1# before they can go without it

[Anonymous No.16126926]

>>16126914
as a teacher of culinary arts, have you seen this roux technique before? https://youtu.be/JTxiBwhnzWc

[Anonymous No.16127270]

>>16123007
look at this chump ignorant of the light of pasta water and trying to hide its miracles

[Anonymous No.16127283]

>>16127270
you dont know what you’re talking about, what this thread is about, and how pasta water applies to lump-free roux. you are an actual retard

[Anonymous No.16127285]

>>16122548
melt the butter on a low heat, then add the flour and whisk it like it owes you money
if you're adding a liquid (for example, some chicken stock) then preferably have it at a cold temperature and add it at a bit at a time (mixing thoroughly once added) and you shouldnt have any issues
hot roux + cold stock = no lumps

[Anonymous No.16127322]

>>16127315
yes, it's added in stages to avoid clumping but having the liquid be cold further reduces the chance of clumping so you have an overall less of a chance of breaking the roux you colossal retard

[Anonymous No.16127327]

>>16127285
>hot roux + cold liquid = no lumps
spotted another Chef John NPC. you are wrong.

>>16122878
>Hot roux, cold milk, no lumps.
that is chef mythology. cold liquid causes the butter to resolidify and clump. notice how all the "cold liquid to hot roux" fags still add the liquid in stages because that is actually what is saving them from the clumps. you don't have to worry about this when using warm or hot liquid.

also you failed to point out that you’re supposed to cook the flour on that butter, not just whisk it. and low heat is not advised because that just makes the whole process go slower

[Anonymous No.16127328]

>>16122548
Sift your flour before you use it. Not just for roux, but for everything.

[Anonymous No.16127341]

>>16127322
and how exactly does the liquid being cold reduce the chances of lumps? what is the science of that? notice how yoi dont know that, nor does Chef John, because it’s not true. cold liquid actually makes lumps MORE likely to happen, and adding hot liquid lessens the chances of lumps. Adding the liquid slowly is the real thing that saves you from lumps.

[Anonymous No.16127349]

>>16127270
That's only if you're a line cook in restaurants. Regular home cook pasta water isn't going to absorb enough magic to be useful.

[Anonymous No.16127359]

>>16127341
because you want at least one of them to be hot to help with the incorporation of one into the other to form a sauce but if one of them is cold is allows for a greater margin of error when it comes to whisking compared to the other - you can do both but it's easier to whisk something cold (gradually) into something hot because there's a greater margin of error as the cold part comes up to temperature

[Anonymous No.16127372]

>>16126926
>teacher of culinary arts
How do you get that job? I have 12 years under my belt and I can't get call back instructing culinary schools or a butcher shop either.

[Anonymous No.16127390]

>>16127349
that’s not the only thing wrong with him.

why would you add pasta water to a roux when you want to make a bechamel?
to a veloute?
to any sauce that you are trying not to make it taste like water?

and what if you’re not making fucking pasta?

and like it was pointed out earlier, pasta water’s emulsifying properties are only thanks to its starch content, in this case wheat starch from the pasta that was cooked in it, and a roux already has starch in it from the wheat flour. the whole fucking point of a roux is to thicken and emulsify a sauce with starch. so pasta water is pointless.

plus with a roux you can toast the flour or starch of your choice in the fat a little for added brown toasty flavor, which you dont get with just pasta water

[Anonymous No.16127403]

>>16127359
Notice how your expanation goes no further after “margin of error” because the entire thing you are claiming is wrong on a scientific level and you dont actually know what you’re talking about.

cold liquid makes for a greater margin or error but pouring it in slowly is what saves the sauce from lumps. notice how all “cold liquid to hot roux” cooks still add the liquid in stages? That’s cuz if they didnt add the liquid in stages it is more likely to clump. cold liquid resolidifies butter dumbass

[Anonymous No.16127433]

>>16122548
OP, rather than do 50%/50% consider that you can very well just a bit more butter than flour. The goal of the butter is to coat every grain, every molecule of flour to protect it from moisture too quidkly...and more butter does a better job and then you won't get clumps. Think like 55% butter, 45% flour and it's foolproof.

You might buy a flat whisk for doing it often, but you can also start it quite easily with slurrying the flour to the butter with a simple fork to blend in the grains to the fat. Mash at all clumps with the tines of your fork. It'll be fine as long as you have more butter than flour.

What are you using your roux to do? I don't get lumps, and pretty much the only thing you need to worry about is cooking the roux enough to get raw flour taste cooked out.

[Anonymous No.16127440]

>>16127390
>pasta water’s emulsifying properties are only thanks to its starch content
Pretty much this right here. I use it on the fly to fix a sauce when it breaks (mostly for carbonara). It doesn't really work until around 7:00pm because it's literally salt water until its had pasta cooked in it for a few hours. There is no practical way to recreate that at home.

[Anonymous No.16127465]

>>16127403
i didnt say "add all the liquid at once" retard, i still said add it in small amounts
just having it be cold when the roux is hot makes it less likely to split and more likely to integrate
seriously fuck off back to r/food or whatever your gay board is called you reddit spacing retard

[Anonymous No.16127480]

>>16127465
>having it be cold when the roux is hot makes it less likely to split and more likely to integrate

and yet you cant explain how or why that would happen because it’s completely wrong.

cold liquid resolidifies butter which makes lumps more likely to happen.
heat accelerates dissolution which means the flour would dispearse in the hot liquid faster and more evenly.

hot or cold liquid, adding the liquid in stages will prevent lumps. you’d get no lumps if you added hot liquid all at once but you’d most likely get lumps adding cold liquid all at once.

[Anonymous No.16127487]

>>16127480
keep reddit spacing gay retard

[Anonymous No.16127503]

>>16127487
Hypothetically if i was a redditor, how does it feel to be completely owned by a redditor? your NPC roux advice is proven wrong by me and you can only say “shut up idiot!” in return.

[Anonymous No.16127526]

i love how Chef John and Cringing With Babish both say to add cold liquid to a hot roux because of chef mythology, and they both have done Julia Child-inspired videos as they supposedly have a lot of respect for Julia Child.

and Julia Child (and Jacques Pepin) have always said the liquid always needs to be hot.

[Anonymous No.16127559]

>>16127526
fags who only watch chef john and babish to learn how to cook are almost as bad as people who watch gordon ramsay to learn how to cook. i mean who the hell lets someone gordon get away with saying shit like “salting eggs before you cook them makes them turn grey.” the fuck?

[Anonymous No.16127573]

>>16127390
lol you are so fucking anal
op when you learn the magic of pasta water you will no longer need to ask these kinds of questions and deal with anal bros

[Anonymous No.16127593]

>>16122548
medium low heat, keep stirring

[Anonymous No.16127793]

>>16127433
So far ive only used Roux to make a cheddar beer dip and really good mac and cheese. Thing is I just wanna get better at the roux because I think its keeping me from making these recipes to the fullest they can be. Plus if I wanna make something down the line that also calls for a roux I wanna be better at it.

[Anonymous No.16127794]

>>16122548
Do it on the lowest heat you can. There's no cooking or drying needed, it's just melting the butter and keeping it warm.

Ignore retards who say you're trying to cook the "floury" taste out that's meaningless shitposting.

[Anonymous No.16127803]

>>16123027
Posting to reiterate the truth of your third point. You want to cook the raw flour flavor out of your roux before incorporating into whatever you're thickening.

Alternatively, you *could* toast the flour in the oven (as long as it's not convection) for a good while to do that same thing. This is what you want to do for french onion soup (times 10x - for that you want it just on the edge of bitterness)

[Anonymous No.16127823]

He's right though. Salted raw eggs undergo chemical changes if they sit without being cooked.

[Anonymous No.16127840]

>>16127794
raw flour has a unpleasant glue taste. all you have to do is eat a spoon of raw flour to know this if you dont want to take people’s word for it.

and if toasting the flour really wasnt important then people wouldnt be making a roux at all. they’d be making a flour slurry and adding that to the liquid if cooking out the raw flour taste didnt matter

[Anonymous No.16127858]

>>16127793
Listen to me, fuck the proportions of the roux. You want to melt butter, and whisk flour in it until it thickens to a paste. That's all you need to do. Cook it for a little in the pan to get rid of the raw flavor. Or don't, most people won't notice or care.

No recipe is going to get ruined by your roux if you do that - they're only going to be ruined if you add too much or too little, whatever the makeup of the roux itself is. So make a bunch of roux, and when whatever you want to thicken gets close to boiling point, add a little, and whisk while you wait for it to hit boiling again. Once it does, you'll see how much it thickened, and you can adjust from there.

Know what you wanna order online for your beer cheese/mac and cheese? Sodium citrate. Make your bechamel base, whisk in and melt your cheese, then sprinkle some sodium citrate in there. Your cheese sauce will be smooth as velveeta, even if you used grana padano to make it.

[Anonymous No.16127981]

>>16127858
Oooooo thanks ill keep that in mind thanks for the tip.

[Anonymous No.16127986]

>>16122548
You stir like a bitch or you're using the wrong utensil. Use a wooden spoon and smear the mixture around the sides of your saucepan while stirring vigorously (120 rpm). Removing lumps is a physical and mechanical destruction of the wet flour ball process. I dump my flour into the saucepan in one big dump but my roux is always smooth and creamy because I understand this. You make a smooth roux the way you "cream" butter and sugar together when making a cake, they're exactly the same process.

[Anonymous No.16128015]

>>16127858
sodium citrate is not needed if a bechamel is made with a roux because the emulsifying properties of the sodium citrate is already achieved by the roux.

and i’ve made cheese sauce with sodium citrate instead of a roux before and i much prefer using american cheese which contains the emulsifying salts in question and disolving that into milk rather than buying a package of sour salt.

the other issue of using just sodium citrate instead of a roux is that the sauce wont be thick, and the luscious thick mouthfeel is preferable to most people for a cheese sauce rather than a thin watery texture. and doing both a bechamel thickened with roux and adding sodium citrate is pointless because once again the emulsifying properties of the roux are already there.

[Anonymous No.16128020]

>>16122878
>wrong. that is chef mythology. cold liquid causes the butter to resolidify and clump
Unless you're stirring constantly and adding the cold liquid gradually.

[Anonymous No.16128023]

>>16128020
yes, stiring constantly and adding the liquid gradually is what prevents lumps. not cold liquid.

[Anonymous No.16128052]

I’ve never broken a sauce using the cold liquid method. I don’t know what people are doing wrong to get lumps, but I’ve never gotten lumps before. I usually just dump the liquid into the roux with abandon

What are you retards doing to get lumps

[Anonymous No.16128078]

>>16128052
They're not putting the physical work in. Have they not seen they way chefs on tv/youtube stir things like a maniac? They're not stirring hard and fast to look cool.

[Anonymous No.16128084]

>>16128052
The lumps start before I add stuff like beer or milk. Its when I add the flower to the butter that I get lumps and dough balls right away.

[Anonymous No.16128102]

>>16128052
you must also be stirring constantly and the people who gets lumps arent. and your heat must be hot enough for the sauce to get hot again quickly after pouring in the cold liquid.
i’ve dumped all my liquid cold in a pan too before and got no lumps but i stirred constantly, and i found that adding my liquid warm rather than cold got me better results every time. for liquid the hotter the better.

[Anonymous No.16128106]

>>16122548
You're adding too fucking much flour

[Anonymous No.16128161]

>>16127573
mac n cheese?
fuk da roo
pasta water bb
thank me later

[Anonymous No.16128163]

>>16128084
I do equal volumes flour to butter and I never have this issue

[Anonymous No.16128173]

>>16128015
I'm not saying to use it in place of roux, I'm saying to use it in *combination* with the roux. Cheese will emulsify into the sauce just fine without it, and yes, you can make a gluten free "mornay" with just SC, cheese and milk.

The benefit of adding sodium citrate is that it keeps the cheese from forming crystals - by adding it, your mornay will take on an ultra-smooth, cheez wizz-like texture. So consider adding it to your roux'd mornay because it gets the best of both worlds.

>>16128052
You're pitching a method that has more downsides than upsides why

[Anonymous No.16128196]

>>16128173
ah, a combination of both to prevent formation of the cheese crystals, gotcha.

but dont the cheese crystals form due to lack of moisture? and hard aged cheeses like parmigiano have crystals in them already.

[Anonymous No.16128207]

>>16128196
Just the citrate does that.The roux is for thickening. Oh golly just try it ffs, I make it with tellagio 3 times a week for an upscale smash burger, I'm not making shit up.

[Anonymous No.16128214]

OP you can also try making your roux with a gluten-free starch or flour like rice flour or potato starch. but i dont know what the substitution amount for each is and i dont think it’s the same as wheat flour.

[Anonymous No.16128220]

>>16128207
the sodium citrate gets rid of the crystals already present in hard cheeses?

[Anonymous No.16128222]

>>16127526
https://youtu.be/W6yEd3tqFL4?t=105
>your roux is in there usually you put your milk cold in a hot roux...you can do the opposite also
why did you choose to lie to us, anon? was it our of ignorance or spite?

[Anonymous No.16128232]

>>16128222
he says “the opposite” meaning adding hot liquid to COLD ROUX, which does work because hot liquid dissolves the cold roux fast.

you misunderstood

[Anonymous No.16128238]

>>16128232
YOU said he said the liquid ALWAYS has to be hot
but the liquid here is not hot
WHY DID YOU LIE TO US

[Anonymous No.16128261]

>>16128238
I didnt say that. I said the liquid should always be hot, and i said that THEY say that the liquid has to be cold when being added to a hot roux, which they do say. They always say “hot roux, cold milk, no lumps.”

all i said is that’s stupid advice because it’s always better if the liquid isnt cold

[Anonymous No.16128268]

>>16128106
Im always adding the same amount as I do butter.

[Anonymous No.16128269]

>>16128220
It smooths the texture out completely. Which is why I referenced grana, a particularly crystalline cheese, in my previous post. Also removes all traces of stringyness

[Anonymous No.16128272]

>>16128261
the exact words you used were
>Julia Child (and Jacques Pepin) have always said the liquid always needs to be hot.
but this was not a true statement, as i have verfied with video evidence

so please explain why you chose to LIE to US, the good people of /ck/

[Anonymous No.16128280]

>>16128238
deleted cuz i missed the crucial part of the vid.

this is the first time i’ve seen jacque add cold milk to a hot roux. Other times i see him adding milk warmed in a saucepan. the fuck is he doing there? Lol.

but regardless, it’s still bad advice. hot liquid works better. It’s science

[Anonymous No.16128285]

>>16128280
>this is the first time i’ve seen jacque add cold milk to a hot roux
well that answers my question
thank you for your time

[Anonymous No.16128286]

>>16128272
other times i’ve seen him make a roux he did it with warmed milk. julia child always does it with warm liquid

[Anonymous No.16128289]

>>16128272
Allow me to chime in. If you have cold liquid, you want hot/warm roux. If you have hot/warm liquid, you want cool/cold roux.

There you go. Both are technically correct and will do the job. Regardless of whichever you prefer or is relevant to the task at hand, you need only understand the principles of how a roux works in the first place to properly utilize it.

[Anonymous No.16128297]

>>16128286
>>16128289
guys i was just breaking anon's balls over semantics lmao

[Anonymous No.16128299]

>>16128289
>principles of how a roux works in the first place
here are the scientific principles. heat accelerates dissolution and absorbtion. cold liquid makes butter resolidify and clump up, and when flour in it that butter then the flour will form gluten and in its clumped state will form lumps.

hot liquid eliminates all those variables because heat accelerates disolution, so flour will disperse faster and more evenly in hot liquid, and the butter wont resolidify.

[Anonymous No.16128331]

>>16122548
Heat is too high. Put milk in it.

[Anonymous No.16128356]

>>16128299
I'm not the one from before arguing in favor of cold liquid. If you make a T of roux and pour in a gallon of cold milk you're a retard for a lot of reasons.

But - putting the flour into roux form is very literally the solution to clumping flour. Roux is a thing people do *because roux keeps flour from clumping*. Otherwise we'd be seiving flour directly into the damn thing we're thickening. All your anti-clumping-flour homework is done when you make roux. The flour particles are distributed amongst butter like a mesh. As butter bits melt away, they release little bits of flour. This is why we make roux.

This principle holds the same logic behind creaming butter and sugar for pastry applications

[Anonymous No.16128406]

>>16128356
not quite because flour will still clump in the butter if the butter still has lots of its water in it, as OP pointed out has been his experience. the fat coating flour particles does help to avoid lumps though because on a molecular level fat and water dont link up, but lumps will still form even in fat-coated flour particles if liquid is added improperly and if constant stirring isnt maintained.

The other purpose of making a roux is to cook out raw flour taste before adding the liquid. we dont seive flour directly into the thing we’re thickening because we’d get raw flour taste in that thing. Even if that taste is hard to notice, it would still taste much better if it wasnt there at all. this raw flour taste can simply be boiled out, but that takes a really long time whereas cooking the flour in a roux makes the raw taste go away very quickly.

creaming butter and sugar is meant to aerate the mixture with small air bubbles for a lighter texture in the baked good.

[Anonymous No.16128409]

>>16122548
how is this even possible? the first time I made a roux as a child it worked perfectly fine and in the decades since I dont think ive ever fucked one up

[Anonymous No.16128461]

>>16128409
yeah but you're a faggot

[Anonymous No.16128509]

>>16128406
>If the butter still has lots of water in it
What even the heck are you on about. If you mixed your roux properly that's a non-issue. The entire mixture has to be brought up to a boil whether you dump a gallon of cold milk into it, add it a cup at a time, or are adding cold roux to hot liquid. What OP, or anyone else for that matter, is going to have trouble with using cold liquid, is properly incorporating the roux, to which the solution is as simple as a hand-held immersion blender.

Oh hell no. Creaming is to ensure a perfectly even distribution of sugar and fat, keeping the mixture homogenized as much as possible. Each bit of sugar comes with it's own bit of fat. Your "aeration" would occur through other means, like steam, baking powder, folding in meringue, or co2 from yeast/gluten net

[bruce No.16128567]

>>16128461
At least he knows how to make a basic culinary staple. Faggot.

[Anonymous No.16128585]

>>16128509
butter is 20% water my dude. adding flour to just melted butter incorporates liquid to the flour prematurely thus resulting in gluten formation which causes flour to stick together which results in lumps in the sauce.

this can be helped by adding the liquid (milk in this case of a bechamel for a cheese sauce) slowly, and preferably warm to not resolidify the butter.

[Anonymous No.16128617]

>>16128567
Hey OP here that wasnt me who said that

[Anonymous No.16128755]

>>16128567
cope, faggot!

[Anonymous No.16128764]

>>16122575
Did have for. Yeah?

[Anonymous No.16128992]

>>16123114
buying clarified butter is a pure waste of money, you can make it yourself for a few pennies' worth of natural gas

[Anonymous No.16128996]

>>16126914
do they not teach using commas in culinary school

[Anonymous No.16129042]

>americoons debating roux technique

[Anonymous No.16129046]

>>16128585
You know if you add the whole thing and stir while it warms, the lumps go away too, right? How many times have you made a roux based sauce or soup or condiment?