Is being vegetarian worth it?

[Anonymous No.15361560]

I have been trying many different kinds of vegetarian foods and I have been feeling better. Is switching to vegetarian actually worth the hassle, or does it just make me a beta cuck soyboy?

[Anonymous No.15361572]

Nothing really matters. You can justify any perspective because your life is such a tiny point of the full spectrum. It's really just a matter of choosing someone to obey and hoping the critical mass ends up favoring your choice.

[Anonymous No.15361584]

>>15361560
Go for Huel instead of this soy shit.

[Anonymous No.15361590]

seriously though, why do people drink this? interested in honest non-meme answers

[Anonymous No.15361605]

>>15361590
I have never actually had it. It actually is illegal in my country due to false advertising as an actual meal replacement. but the idea seems solid as someone who often does not eat for enjoyment.

[Anonymous No.15361624]

>>15361572
Thanks, killing self

[Anonymous No.15361626]

>>15361590
All essential nutrients, quick meal/prep. lots and lots of fiber. it even has digestive bacteria.
quick preperation is one of the main strengths of these products. satiety can vary among individuals though

[Anonymous No.15363040]

>>15361560
>t. beta cuck soyboy

[Anonymous No.15363142]

>>15361584
can vouch for huel. ideally you shouldn't drink (eat?) any kind of ground up meal replacement slop but I am a lazy cunt and huel tastes good to me.

[Anonymous No.15363963]

>>15361560
I feel better as a vegetarian. Less inflamation in joints, less sweat and clearer skin. I've lost a bit of weight but some muscle mass along with that (no gyms in lockdown). Cooking at home has been a delight, I've had to learn all over again and it's been quite fun. Saved money not getting meat though when ordering out or at work party it has been hard to navigate food I've not made myself or seen the label to. My friends/senpai are pretty accepting, I don't tell anyone and I don't force it on others.

[Anonymous No.15363972]

>>15363963
>I feel better as a vegetarian. Less inflamation in joints, less sweat and clearer skin.
Purely subjective, unless you have hard data confirming everything, it's literally just make believe.

[Anonymous No.15363993]

Yes and no. I went vegetarian for month just to see if I could do it. I did it but It made me realize how bad at cooking I was. The upside is you will be healthy . Downside is you are limited by your cooking skills. Your only a soyboy if you hop on every diet fad and never loose weight.

[Anonymous No.15364098]

>>15361590
health benefits, laziness and losing weight

[Anonymous No.15364125]

>>15361560
“Worth it?” Worth what? Loading your body with oxalates and hydrogenated plant oils? Depriving your body of a multitude of both macro and micro nutrients? Or spending a small fortune on artisan kale at Trader Joe’s?

I don’t understand what “worth it” means. What is “it”? Worth what?

[Anonymous No.15364138]

>>15363963
How many(and what type of) blood tests did you do both before and after starting your suicidal diet to confirm these purported “health benefits” like “less sweating.” You realize sweating is literally a natural body function, right anon? I could cover my entire body in anti-perspirant deodorant and it would stop me from sweating, that doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. See kids, this is your brain on veganism.

[Anonymous No.15364151]

>>15361560
I kind of want to try that shit tbqhwyfamalang. What does soylent even taste like?

[Anonymous No.15364210]

>>15361560
if you care more about 4channel cred than irl cred, then for the love of god don't mention this shit ever again.
otherwise, you should become acquainted with macros and micros in order to be sure you are healthy while being vegetarian. its difficult to be nutrient deficient with as an omnivore, and if one thoughtlessly becomes vegetarian they run the risk of a bit of trouble. a plant-based diet is not inhenrently healthier than an omnivore one. remember, it doesn't have to be all or nothing in terms of these diets.

[Anonymous No.15364253]

>>15364210
Humans just aren’t suppose to eat plants anon, period. Can we? Yes... sort of. We can definitely chew up, swallow and shit out plants, but very little of it is actually broken down by our digestive system so we can absorb what little nutrients the plant has in the first place. Aside from that, all the biological evidence points to the fact that for hundreds of thousands of years we’ve been primarily carnivores, who would eat plants when there wasn’t fuck else to eat. The vast majority of plants are inedible, whereas almost all meat is edible. Animals develop defense mechanisms like claws and sharp teeth and large lung capacity, plants cannot do any of these things. Plants defense mechanisms are basically just (1) camouflage and (2) toxins. They develop shit that is toxic to us to get us to stop eating them, yet here we are in 2021 subsidizing plant-eating and taxing meat-eating.

[Anonymous No.15364292]

>>15363972
>Purely subjective
yes. It makes THEM feel better, they feel healthier, and they don't force it on others. that's the ideal vegetarian/omnivore/paleo/whatever.

[Anonymous No.15364298]

>>15364210
>4channel cred
what is this?

[Anonymous No.15364304]

>>15361560
Yes, its great for maintaining a healthy weight easily. Starch is very satiating. Also the human tounge tastes sugar and not aminos so the idea that we ate more animal food than plant food in the past has very weak supporting evidence

[Anonymous No.15364381]

>>15364253
historically, yes, if you spend your whole life in a ten mile radius in some tundra, meat is probably your best bet nutrient-wise. Today, we are foturnate enough to have access to a large variety of genetically enhanced plant foods that can give us all the nutrients we need, including suplements. furthermore, as a species we completely fucked up the animal harvesting industry and made it wildly unsustainable. we have the ability to live healthy lives without meat. not saying that you should, just saying that it is certainely possible

[Anonymous No.15364454]

>>15364381
So tell me anon, how do you get protein from plants, equivalent to that of animal sources? Do you eat literally multiple pounds of broccoli and/beans every day? That’s waaaaaaay too much fiber, horrible for your stomach and intestines, let alone an absurd amount of oxalates and vegetable oils.

But let’s forget protein because that’s the easiest vegan-myth to disprove, as demonstrated above. Let’s address the accessibility argument. What you said is the exact opposite of the objective reality we both live in. It is incredibly expensive to piece together even a half-way decent vegetarian diet. You need fresh foods from all over the world, things that come from different hemispheres, thousands of miles away, that have to travel by 2-3 boats and 2-3 trucks and be loaded and unloaded dozens of times and eventually received and stocked on the shelves are your fuckin’ Trader Joe’s. This is not cheap to accomplish and it never will be. Stop the culinary meme shit, anon.

[Anonymous No.15364469]

If you want to die and be unhealthy yes.

You can live off alcohol too, but vegetables and fruit should be a rare thing. You should primarily be eating Meats, Cheeses/dairy and sometimes nuts as your primary food. Maybe a tad of grain now and then but only every few days.

[Anonymous No.15364486]

>>15364469
Nuts are bad for you too though, and meat gives you all the same things you’d get from dairy. You definitely need some sugars though, and being that honey is the only “good” sugar in existence, you wanna get those sugars from honey. Basically red meat and raw honey would be the optimal human diet.

[Anonymous No.15364495]

>>15364304
>Also the human tounge tastes sugar and not aminos so the idea that we ate more animal food than plant food in the past has very weak supporting evidence
This is some serious schizo shit

[Anonymous No.15364502]

>>15364292
>and they don't force it on others
Topkek kill yourself authoirtarian faggot scum get cancer and die in a car crash

[Anonymous No.15364519]

>>15361560
No. Vegetarians and vegans are retarded and think all micros and macros are the same no matter where they come from. The digestive process for plants is wildly different than it is for meat, which means it's much more difficult to get access to micros from plants. E.g., you literally cannot digest iron in plants if it's eaten in close proximity with a calcium source. If you feel better eating vegetarian, it probably means the quality of your diet before was awful. There are ways to effectively eat vegan, but they often rely on cooking specific meals in specific patterns, and if you're not interested in tailoring your entire meal order to veganism or you don't want to suddenly cook like a Vietnamese monk, I'd suggest just continuing to eat meat.

The eating of meat is fundamentally a part of health. Your body has entire metabolic pathways for digesting it, and relies extensively on nutrients present in meat. From a simple standpoint of "Does this make sense", would the body be completely incapable of digesting things like plant fiber, but have no issue digesting complex proteins, if it was in any way supposed to rely exclusively on plant nutrition? Obviously, your body is built to eat meat just like most large apes are. Vegetarianism historically exists only in two very specific regions (Buddhist parts of China and Vietnam, and Jains in India), for very specific populations (highly dedicated Mahayana buddhists and Jains). As a proportion of cultures (population is misleading since some cultures can't grow due to development constraints) there are far more groups highly reliant on eating meat or even only eating meat than there are cultures that only eat plants.

Listen to >>15364469 with specific modifications that you should incorporate more vegetables and leafy greens, less cow milk (other dairy is fine), and some relatively unprocessed grain breads into that diet.

[Anonymous No.15364526]

>>15364304
The human tongue also tastes salt and capsaicin more sensitively than meat too. Do you think the historical human diet consisted of apples smeared in salt and ground chilis?

[Anonymous No.15364530]

>>15361560
if you're a fat fuck and you're trying to fix your health being a vegetarian faggot won't do you any good.
just eat less. 3 meals a day is a meme and practically deadly for our modern, sedentary lifestyles

[Anonymous No.15364546]

Im going vegetarian to lower ny blood pressure. Going on a DMT trip and don't want to die of a heart failure. Feel better and don't feel like shit when I wake up, clearer skin, and my blood pressure is lower. Also a bunch of research i have been doing tells me I will have a smoother trip with a vegetarian diet. Anyone have any good vegetarian recommendations besides curry?

[Anonymous No.15364685]

>>15364454
you're heavily exaggerating how little protein certain plant foods have, and how much protein the body needs in a day. beans, seitan, tofu, nuts, hell even pasta and rice all have decent protein amounts. you just have to be mindful to eat as much as you need. it's quite easy, really. yes, usually the fibre intake is increased which might cause some inconvencience for the first few weeks, but after that its smooth sailing.
for some people, it is indeed very difficult and expensive to eat a balanced plant-based diet. for an average middle class person in a medium sized city however it is very affordable. i never understood the meme of vegetables being expensive. here in italy i spend maybe 3-4 euros a day on a diverse vegan diet, and thats only because i am bulking. if you can't afford a plant-based diet, you shouldnt do it. but most people can afford it.
>>15364519
you're right, not all macros and micros are the same. doesn't mean you will literallt drop dead if you don't eat meat. the healthiest diet is an omnivore diet, no questions asked. this doesn't mean that you NEED to eat meat. and let's not pretend you are omnivore for "health reasons" you (i'm refering to the general population) eat ice cream, ultra-processed garbage, smoke and drink. if you really cared about your health, you'd probably quit all of those things too. however, the plant-based diet is unarguably better for the enviornment, which is more important than any one of us.

[Anonymous No.15364908]

>>15364685
>that doesn't mean that you NEED to eat meat
You don't NEED to eat plants either. On a small timespan you don't even NEED to eat, period. Regardless, I didn't say "You need to eat meat", I said "The eating of meat is fundamentally a part of health" i.e. you're not healthy if you don't eat meat, not that you NEED to eat meat or you'll die.

Sorry, I shouldn't have exposed your inability to understand my comments like that. You're probably just retarded because of your vegan brain fog.

[Anonymous No.15364924]

>>15364908
if you believe meat is a fundamental part of health, i'm afraid you're misinformed. there are millions of people who have never eaten meat in their lives and they are at least as healthy as the average person

[Anonymous No.15364934]

>>15364924
>Small communities in east and south Asia
>All of them get consistently BTFO by superior meat-eaters perpetually throughout history
No one is disagreeing that Mahayana Chinese are just as capable of performing cheap slave labor as any other prole anon.

[Anonymous No.15365035]

>>15364934
wait.... what??? vegetarians in the middle of india who only ate rice and lettuce got destroyed by meat eaters?? incredible analisys. i bow down to your superior meat-fueled intellect.

in the year 2021 most people have access to a wide variety of vegetables that fulfill all micros and allow for optimal brain function

[Anonymous No.15365179]

I went vegetarian in college and lost like 50 pounds of pure fat. My blood pressure also drastically improved. However - I'm trying to bulk up now and it's pretty difficult. Not impossible, I just need to fucking snort protein powder. Plus I sometimes have to take vitamins if I don't pay attention to what I eat.

If you're a major lardass with heart problems you should consider it, but otherwise just eat an omnivorous diet and work out. The only reason I'm still a vegetarian is that my thyroid and blood pressure are both fucked, and if I stop now I'll gain all of the weight back and have to get on heart meds.

[Anonymous No.15365219]

>>15361560
If China doesn't care why should you?

[Anonymous No.15365424]

>>15361560
you can be a vegetarian without eating a bunch of meat replacement soy products.
just fucking take meat out of your diet. it's not that hard.

[Anonymous No.15365432]

>>15361560
>does it just make me a beta cuck soyboy?
no, but basing your life decisions off of the opinions of people on an anonymous image board does
that being said, you're better off being flexitarian

[Anonymous No.15365445]

>>15365179
are you sure it was meat or did you just start eating less calories?

[Anonymous No.15365447]

>>15364469
>vegetables and fruit should be a rare thing
>You should primarily be eating Meats, Cheeses/dairy
fatty detected

[Anonymous No.15365506]

>>15361560
>I have been trying many different kinds of vegetarian foods and I have been feeling better.
You probably "feel better" because you're making healthier choices overall due to actually being vigilant of your diet and not because you're doing vegetarianism.

>Is switching to vegetarian actually worth the hassle, or does it just make me a beta cuck soyboy?
Depends why you're doing it, but it also doesn't really matter. You're a beta cuck soyboy for giving a fuck at all what ceekay thinks about your diet.

[Anonymous No.15365602]

>>15365035
>Who are the Aryans
>Who are the Mongols
>Who are the Mughals
>Who are the British

[Anonymous No.15365666]

>>15365602
i guess i didn't make my sarcasm clear enough. it's obvious some malnourished farmers got btfod by the bits/mongols etc. what i'm saying is that it is uncomparable to modern day vegetarianism, where most people have access to a wide variety of foods. the only malnourished vegeterians/vegans are retarded fad-followers

[Anonymous No.15365783]

>>15361560
Vegetarian is good -vegan is retarded

[Anonymous No.15365809]

>>15364469
>vegetables and fruit should be a rare thing. You should primarily be eating Meats, Cheeses/dairy

[Anonymous No.15365814]

Isn't soylent full of heavy metals?

[Anonymous No.15365818]

>>15361560
>beta cuck soyboy
No,. you attitude and low self-esteem makes you that. Stop seeking acceptance from random people and eat whatever the fuck you like.

But I'm guessing this a troll thread. Either way, grow the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.15365825]

>>15364685
Name any single plant on earth that has even a half of the protein of an equivalent weight in beef, or any red meat. You can’t because they don’t exist. Broccoli is basically the best you can do for protein in regards to vegetables. It has 2.5g protein/cup. Beef has 34g protein/cup. I have no misconception about how much protein you need. An average person should be getting at least half of their body weight in protein per day, which is essentially a rabbit’s diet. To that, plant protein is not the same as animal protein, animal protein is superior for a number of reasons. Excess fiber intake doesn’t turn into “smooth sailing,” ever. When you consume absurd amounts of fiber it causes inflammation of the lining of the stomach and bowels, it causes chronic acid reflux because your body is constantly trying to produce enough acid to break down the non-digestible plants you’ve eaten(if this goes on long enough you can get ulcers or worse), and to that point most people on these diets don’t absorb nutrients as well because their body has gotten used to moving a bunch of indigestible fiber through it really quickly, it’s already material your body can’t effectively digest, and when you eat nothing but that you’re only getting a fraction of the intended nutrients. If you’re only buying Italian(or European) foods then you’re objectively nutrient deficient. And if you’re only spending $4-$5/day on a vegan diet, then you’re also significant calorie deficient, which is all the more hilarious with the context that you’re “bulking.” This has to be bait, you got me.

[Anonymous No.15365837]

>>15365035
>in the year 2021 most people have access to a wide variety of vegetables that fulfill all micros
Topkek

[Anonymous No.15365848]

>>15365179
Hey you dumb fucking cock sucking cuckold. You didn’t lose 50lbs and fix your BP because you stopped eating meat. You lost 50lbs and fixed your BP because you stopped eating a bunch of bullshit that you most certainly were eating if you had 50 extra lbs to lose in the first place. Holy shit you cultists are deranged.

[Anonymous No.15365853]

>>15365447
Sickly skin-and-bones funko pop collecting WWE fan detected

[Anonymous No.15365861]

>>15365666
So all jokes aside anon, if we pitted 50,000 modern omnivores(or carnivores) against 50,000 modern vegetarians in close quarters warfare, do you genuinely believe the vegetarian army would stand a chance against omnivores? Let alone carnivores?

[Anonymous No.15365868]

>>15365809
You got tricked into thinking an indigestible piece of starch growing out of the ground was a super food topkek

[Anonymous No.15365916]

>>15365853
>>15365853
lolwat

[Anonymous No.15365936]

Lifelong veggie here. Dont know what im missing. Feel healthy. Have hot gf.

[Anonymous No.15365993]

>>15361590
It's more nutritionally complete/balanced (and thereby healthier) than the average standard meal for most people, and certainly a better option than fast food or other junk. Add convenience into that and you've got a winner, literally a more convenient way to be healthier than the average person. There are certainly better options than Soylent (I personally use Keto Chow and you can see tons of different options on blendrunner.com) since Soylent follows FDA guidelines to the letter and FDA guidelines are kind of outdated trash, but even so it's still better than what most people eat.

For me personally, I'm a picky eater on a strict diet, so having some tasty nutritional slurry I can drink to make sure I'm not deficient in anything is incredible. Soylent changed my fucking life and without it gaining popularity I wouldn't have the even better derivative products that other people created in response to it. Without these products I would still be incredibly unhealthy.

[Anonymous No.15366023]

>>15365993
>since Soylent follows FDA guidelines to the letter
That explains why it's not legal for sale or import in most countries outside of the US for failing to meet nutritional requirements as a "meal replacement".

[Anonymous No.15366039]

>>15361560
Do you need to "switch to" it? Why not just eat what you like without turning it into a dogmatic experience where you're not allowed to have meat ever again?

[Anonymous No.15366078]

>>15365993
You’re insanely delusional.

[Anonymous No.15366120]

>>15365825
you don't have to eat the same mass of food if you switch from meat to plants. you know that, right? the whole "well plants don't have as much protein per gram" is irrelevant

[Anonymous No.15366145]

>>15365936
>Lifelong veggie here
Given that you've never associated the smell of any meat with your body eating food - what do things like bacon smell like to you? Good? Bad?

[Anonymous No.15366617]

Are half of the posters retarded? The post is about vegetarian not vegan. With things like eggs and milk I do not see how "lack of protein" is related unless you're an actual brainlet.

[Anonymous No.15366622]

>>15366039
It's not about never eating meat again but rather about changing how I would buy groceries and plan meals for myself.

[Anonymous No.15366639]

>>15366078
look in a mirror

[Anonymous No.15366659]

I think just eating less meat in general is a good health move for many people. I feel better on a mostly vegetarian diet.

[Anonymous No.15366696]

>>15365936

[Anonymous No.15366726]

>>15366078
Delusional in what way? Be more specific. Are you saying that I'm simply imagining that my annual blood tests with my doctor have improved dramatically since the introduction of Soylent-like meal replacement shakes into my previously shitty, unbalanced, nutritionally deficient diet? I'm not saying these things are as good as whole foods, I'm saying they're better than fast food, fried foods, pizza, frozen processed foods, etc.

[Anonymous No.15366727]

>>15361560
beta cuck soyboy

[Anonymous No.15366734]

>>15366023
Yup, the US governmental nutritional guidelines are horrendously outdated.

[Anonymous No.15367954]

>>15365825
again, you're misinformed. 100g of beans, 125g of seitan and 100g of rice already gives enough protein for the average person. this is a very managable, normal amount of food even for one meal. it doesnt even have that much fiber. also, see >>15366120
also, of course i calculate ALL my micros and macros to ensure i have a balanced diet, which I certainely so. I would recommend anyone, vegan or not, to do it just to see if theyre doing fine. I on average eat 2000 calories a day, with 160g of protein (this also includes a protein shake which I didn't add to my 3-4 euro a day calculation). it is very very affordable to eat enough calories. i can but two packets of lentils for 2 euros which have 2400 calories. i want to add as well that the fiber issue could indeed become a problem, eating too much fibre is no joke. you have to be mindful of eating too much, same as an omnivore who has to be mindful of eating too little.
>>15365861
i would guess that the average vegetarian is indeed physically weaker than the average omnivore, but not by much. keep in mind that many vegetarians are healthy and fit, while many omnivores are obese and weak. anyway, what point are you trying to prove here? how is this an argument against vegetarianism?

[Anonymous No.15369245]

>>15361590
to be a soyboy cuckface

[Anonymous No.15369366]

>>15367954
>many vegetarians are healthy and fit, while many omnivores are obese and weak

That's a pretty loaded statement. If you compare an athletic person to a fat couch potato then no shit it doesn't matter what the fit athletic person eats.
But if you compare a fit vegetarian vs a fit omnivore the omnivore is going to have the nutritional edge because they don't limit the whole foods and bioavailable nutrients they are taking in. Keep in mind since both these people are fit and eat a clean diet, one just incorporates meat, then couldn't one argue that a diet with some meat is healthier than one without?

I was in the worst shape of my life as a vegetarian. I was at my heaviest and had the worst bloodwork. I also can't eat beans, no matter if they are properly prepared, without bad heartburn. So seitan and beans are out of the question for me.

[Anonymous No.15369393]

>>15369366
I guess you could argue that a fit omnivore would be healthier/stronger than a fit vegetarian, sure. I'm not too convinced, but whatever. Despite the lower bioavailability of certain micros in a plant-based diet, you certainly can achieve the same level of nutrition as an omnivore. On average, one does more readily attain micros on an omnivore diet. This doesn't mean that one diet is inherently healthier than the other. You can get all macros and micros on a vegan diet, a paleo, a keto, whatever.
I'm not saying veganism/vegetarianism is for everyone. You can most definitely be unhealthy on any diet. If I couldn't eat beans or seitan, I probably wouldn't be vegan. Just because SOME vegans/vegetarians are unhealthy, doesn't mean ALL of them are. I get frustrated at vegans who have shitty diets as much as I get frustrated at omnivores with shitty diets.

Fucking vegans ruined veganism. For real. If it wasn't for those loud, obnoxious retarded vegans maybe more people would be accepting of us. Goddamn it.

[Anonymous No.15369414]

>>15369393
I also want to add that, personally I believe becoming vegetarian/vegan for health reasons is incredibly stupid. You are simply falling for a fad, just like keto or paleo. Removing a food group won't make you stop being a fatass. Just eat less bread. Chicken and fish are very good for you. The only valid reason to follow a plant-based lifestyle is for environmental reasons (and ethical I guess if you're against killing animals).

[Anonymous No.15369441]

>>15369393
>Fucking vegans ruined veganism. For real. If it wasn't for those loud, obnoxious retarded vegans maybe more people would be accepting of us. Goddamn it.

Hey I accept you. Like a parent who has a gay son I accept you.
You know? Like I'll cook you vegan food and do my best to get the healthiest and most ethical ingredients (I'm an organic no till regenerative homesteader so I have access to the best of the best)
But I am not going to not eat animal products around you, I am not going to be vegan, and I am not going to accept being shamed for my diet and lifestyle. I will debate with you, but I will not tolerate disrespect.

Don't get frustrated at peoples diets. I don't care what you eat. I know plenty of people who eat pure garbage and if that's what they want to eat that's what they want to eat.

People in general accept or want to accept vegans. But we want the same acceptance in return. Do you understand? I have vegan relatives who will actually call me derogatory names just because of what I eat. I don't tolerate that, and I wouldn't feel comfortable with them being on my homestead. But I have vegetarian family members who are chill and laid back about their diet. I will respect and accept them.

I don't determine how I treat people by anything more than the quality than their character.

[Anonymous No.15369464]

>>15369441
have you posted this picture before? I think we've already argued about this before hahahah
Vegans who don't accept omnivores piss me the fuck off. not only do they do a disservice to the cause, but antagonising anyone who doesn't follow your world view is ridiculous. I guess I take shittalk from 4channelers too seriously. i've never met someone IRL who gave a fuck I was vegan. Keep tending to your garden anon. It looks great.

[Anonymous No.15369471]

>>15369393
Veganism is ruinous for the environment. Life on Earth thrives on biodiversity and cycles enabled by that biodiversity. That means animals, plants, and insects all coexisting and contributing their parts to help sustain each other. Sustainable farming done by rotating animals and plants through a large natural space will always be the healthiest thing for everyone. Veganism, however, requires just plowing down thousands of acres of previously biodiverse land, destroying animal and insect habitats with reckless abandon, to plant shitloads of monoculture crop, or a very small variety of them, which removes all biodiversity and depletes soil in ways that require us to artificially replenish it.

Of course, with veganism you can't use animals for labor in any way because that's slavery, so the idea of rotating crops and animals even without killing/eating those animals is immoral, meaning that anything naturally sustainable is out of the question. And all these vegetable crops that are planted have to be made in such vast quantities because they produce a lot less product and we need greater concentrations of them all, meaning more deforestation and bulldozing away animal habitats to replace them all with unsustainable frankenstein farming bullshit.

Veganism is basically all hollow virtue signalling, followed by people who don't understand where their food comes from or how it actually impacts the environment. Factory farming in general is awful and I do agree that the horrible conditions animals are often put into should not be allowed, but vegans seem to think that factory farming and sustainable pasture farming are the same exact thing and want it all extinguished. The greatest irony of all is they think they're doing good for the environment but they're actually supporting the wanton destruction of the environment for their selfish desire to not feel bad that they're eating an animal even though the alternative is so much worse for so many other animals.

[Anonymous No.15369497]

>>15369464
Yeah I have because it was the nicest photo I had of the garden this year. Next year the garden is going to be about 4 times bigger with the addition of several large plots.

But I still don't think animal abstinence is the solution to our environmental issues. Those are mostly caused by large cooperation's with people who only care about money as the bottom line. If you keep supporting supermarkets it doesn't matter if you are eating plants or animals, they are going to fuck the environment up to high shit.

The problem is that the most effective solution to the damage we have done to the environment is so profound and would require consumer addicted people to completely change their lives. I believe it can be done, and with greater ease now that we are living in a time of industrial and educational prosperity. But people want to have an easy, consumable solution.

Personally. I am just doing my thing, and waiting in a beautiful place for the collapse of humanity. I really don't believe we are going to make out. Our species is just as mortal as we are as individuals.

[Anonymous No.15370006]

>>15369471
In an ideal world, we would have sustainable agriculture where we could all enjoy meat if we'd like to, but also be able to be vegan/vegetarian if we'd like without having to worry about environmental factors. Although I am not fully knowledgeable of the environmental repercussions of a fully vegan earth, I could see it being a problem. To want everyone in the world to not eat meat is ludicrous. As it stands, today, you will make a lower environmental impact if you opt out of meat. If the whole meat industry was sustainable, I probably wouldn't be vegan.
>>15369497
I agree, without radical change the world is going to shit, even if you or I eat a hamburger or not. How I see it is I am doing as much as I can as a singular person, which satisfies me.

[Anonymous No.15370019]

>>15370006
>If the whole meat industry was sustainable, I probably wouldn't be vegan.
Look up local farms that practice sustainable/regenerative farming and don't pump their animals with drugs and grain. Those farms are out there, I have one near me I buy meat from, and I think supporting those types of farms does far more good than just "opting out of meat" only to further support the destructive nature of vegan farming.

[Anonymous No.15370041]

>>15370006
What do you think about the fact that most rice is grown with the labor of thousands of domesticated ducks?

[Anonymous No.15370052]

>>15370019
Likely too expensive and/or too out of the way for most people. I happen to fall on both categories. To completely opt out of meats is an extreme solution to an extreme problem, one that most people aren't willing to do. I respect people like you who care about where their food is coming from than annoying vegans.
>>15370041
cuuute. Is that true? personally, I don't mind. I'm not one of those "animals are friends" vegans. I'd prefer there not to be animal labor, but as long as they have a long, healthy happy life I don't see an issue

[Anonymous No.15370068]

>>15370052
You seem like a reasonable fellow. I wish all vegans were like you, the world would be better. The world needs more nuance in general.

[Anonymous No.15370094]

>>15370052
These are ducks raised for eggs and meat. They are commercially raised birds. Either Khaki Campbells (as shown in video) or India Runner (pictured above)
They are used this way to cut costs in feed and to not use pesticides and artificial fertilizers in rice paddys. If they didn't use the ducks their water would be poisioned. They live as long as any other commercially raised animal. That is to say 8-12 weeks for the males who aren't kept for breeding and about 3-5 years for the egg laying females.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5NTgZA-xWE&ab_channel=SneakyLikeASnek

Domestic animals are NEEDED. You cannot escape them. Using artificial fertilizer and chemical pesticides in a water intensive crop like rice is HORRIBLE for the environment and worse for wildlife.

Like I said, the only legitimate solution is not one most people will do. It is not easy for a person who is addicted to convenience to actually produce their as much of their own food as possible from the ground up.

It's incredibly rewarding. But most people aren't willing to do it. Like I said earlier, the human race is absolutely fucked.

[Anonymous No.15370103]

>>15370068
to follow an ideology blindly is unreasonable and is the reason for a lot problems. would I like my life choices to be completely perfect and sound? Sure. But that will never be the case for any lifestyle, politcal thought, etc. To recognize the nuance in everything and everyone is an important step in achieving the ultimate truth. So yeah, fuck vegan ideologues

[Anonymous No.15370123]

>>15370094
If using animal labour is better for the environment and more cost-efficient, then by all means we should do it. The use of animals in labour is hugely important and effective. I don't really have a problem with slaughtering animals. After all we are omnivores, and slaughtering is simply a more efficient form of hunting. Completely natural. I kind of understand vegans who don't want to kill animals at all but they don't realize that, as you said, domestic animals are needed. Maybe in a few hundred years technology will advance in such a way that we will no longer need animal labour.
Humans nowadays are addicted to convenience. It's insane how all of us can go to a supermarket and get almost anything we can imagine in huge amounts. Hell, you can just order it online. This over-convenience is rotting humanity.

[Anonymous No.15370145]

>>15370052
>Likely too expensive and/or too out of the way for most people.
Absolutely not true for most people. Unless you are in extreme poverty (in which case you eat what you can get) it is actually more cost effective to get meat wholesale from a local producer. I got 1/4 cow in august and I still have half of it left. I spent about 400 dollars and its the only beef I eat. At the rate I am going this beef will last me almost a year, and thats only 1/4 cow. And I could get a pig for cheaper.
With the internet you can contact tons of local regenerative farms, and they are EVERYWHERE.

https://regenerationinternational.org/regenerative-farm-map

Before my ducks started laying I was getting eggs from my neighbors chickens who dont live in a cage, not even a fence, and they hang out with eachother and roosters. Paid 2 bucks a dozen, and would even get a few dozen for free here and there.
You just need to know where to look. And also fuck the city. Cities need to die.

[Anonymous No.15370149]

>>15361560
The "optimal" diet probably includes some animal products. You can absolutely survive and thrive on a veggie diet, but it's harder.

On the other hand, the food industry has conditioned the west into eating meat with every single meal, every day of the week, and that's what's collectively fucking us up, in multiple senses.

That's why personally I'm doing the same thing as you: trying out various vegetarian and vegan meals just to see what kind of options I have. It like a fun challenge to see just how little I actually need meat to make a good meal.

For the most part I agree with vegans on many of their ethical concerns. But I also recognize I'm a hypocrite and don't have the resolve to go all the way. But I don what I can.

[Anonymous No.15370155]

>>15361560
>I have been trying many different kinds of vegetarian foods and I have been feeling better. Is switching to vegetarian actually worth the hassle, or does it just make me a beta cuck soyboy?
Translated to >retard that lacked vitamins from a shitty diet feels better after eating vegetarian food

[Anonymous No.15370236]

>>15370145
400 dollars is a large up-front cost many people can't afford. I also imagine you need a huge fridge to be able to store that. It is definitely better than buying at a supermarket though. Most people also won't do this because its inconvenient.
Cities need to die indeed.

[Anonymous No.15370667]

>>15370236
My chest freezer, which could easily hold half a hog was about 250.
Keep in mind rent in the city is BARE MINIMUM 600 dollars a month without bills. With the chest freezer you can save money over the long term. After getting the meat I spent 100 dollars less per month on groceries. That adds up. Anyone who can afford to buy a supermarket steak can afford wholesale meat. Keep in mind I paid 400 dollars for BEEF. Pork is cheaper per lb, and larger shares are even cheaper. A whole pig with the costs split among friends and family will be dirt cheap.

People don't do it because they don't know it's an option. If you can afford an x box or a ps5 or whatever gaming pc. You can afford a wholesale animal.

[Anonymous No.15370690]

>>15361590
Its good every now and then when you need a meal fast

[Anonymous No.15371042]

>>15365783
Actually I think its the opposite. Dairy is horrible for you while certain meats can offer a lot of health benefits. Like seafood for example.

[Anonymous No.15372223]

>>15361590
It's only good when you can't eat anything and need to be somewhere in 2 minutes.

[Anonymous No.15372442]

>>15361560
Drink kefir if you're going vegetarian, that soylent stuff is for sickly vegan programmers.

[Anonymous No.15374198]

Going Vegan/Vegetarian is a choice based on ethics NOT health. A diet that requires you to take supplements for it to be viable is not balanced. Anyone who says different is just kidding themselves. Also, if you base your identity around your diet (same goes for you carnivore fags) you're a fucking loser.

[Anonymous No.15374244]

>>15374198
>A diet that requires you to take supplements for it to be viable is not balanced.

Instead "a diet that need you to takes pills to lower your sodium or your blood cholesterol " is viable?

I'm not even vegetarian but, boy, you are stupid

[Anonymous No.15374336]

>>15374244
>Instead "a diet that need you to takes pills to lower your sodium or your blood cholesterol " is viable?

What kind of argument is that? Are you trying to say that if you're not vegan/vegatarian you need sodium and cholesterol meds? Lol. Mad vegan detected.

[Anonymous No.15374423]

fucking novelists in this thread

[Anonymous No.15374435]

>>15374336
>Are you trying to say that if you're not vegan/vegatarian you need sodium and cholesterol meds?

Most probably than a vegetarian/vegan as sodium and saturated fats are mostly contained in animal products or product that contains animal products/animal derived products

>Mad vegan detected.
Reread again my post you spherical imbecile

[Anonymous No.15374481]

>>15374435
>>Are you trying to say that if you're not vegan/vegatarian you need sodium and cholesterol meds?
>Most probably than a vegetarian/vegan as sodium and saturated fats are mostly contained in animal products or product that contains animal products/animal derived products

Yea, no. People have been eating meat and been healthy for thousands of years. Sodium and cholesterol issues stem from processed foods that are more often than not vegan/vegetarian. Sorry to tell you that excluding meat from your diet does not automatically make you healthy. That fact that you would setup a false dichotomy like that exposes who you are.

[Anonymous No.15374505]

>>15374481
>People have been eating meat and been healthy for thousands of years
It's not like they lived like shit then and die earlier because if malnutrition too.
Retard

>Sorry to tell you that excluding meat from your diet does not automatically make you healthy
It does not absolutely , although per se it kinda does, since meat consumption it's correlated with increase of relative rick of developing colon-rectum cancer.

Since there are virtually not downside in the majority of fruits and vegetables, opting for a diet based mostly on those seems to lead to a healthier general state.

Diet are based on social/economic context. Meat is overabundant and ubiquitous and humans did not evolved yet to loose food scarcity conservation instincts

[Anonymous No.15374561]

>>15374505
>It's not like they lived like shit then and die earlier because if malnutrition too.
>Retard

It's hard to take you seriously when you argue like a 12 year old and type shit like:

>It does not absolutely , although per se it kinda does

You've taken an absolutely retarded stance since you claim not to be vegan or vegetarian and unless you are forced to take dietary supplements which I highly doubt means you passively agree with me. And if you are forced to take supplements means you're an absolute mess.

[Anonymous No.15374562]

>>15374244
>>15374435
Saturated fats are the best fats for you. The problem is eating them alongside sugar and too many carbs (especially processed carbs which cause you to get even more carb density in your diet). People have blood pressure, sodium, and cholesterol problems because they have a simultaneously high fat and high carb diet. If you reduce either one then you get far better outcomes, but research tends to show that lowering the carbs specifically gives a better outcome than lowering the fat because fat is essential for life and health while carbs are not.

[Anonymous No.15374575]

>>15374505
>meat consumption it's correlated with increase of relative rick of developing colon-rectum cancer.
Did you know that the studies which determine those risks consider a slice of pizza to be a serving of red meat? Any processed junk food with any amount of possible animal product in it counts as a serving of meat. They don't break it down into percentages, they just throw the entire item into that category regardless of its other ingredients. Meanwhile, only actual vegetables count as a serving of vegetables. Gee, I wonder why vegetables look so much healthier in those studies. No one ever tries to make a comparison of a whole meat diet to a whole vegetable diet, though, to control for the effect of processed foods. Much easier to call all processed junk foods meat so we can sell people on buying more vegetables to give the food producers higher profit margins.

[Anonymous No.15374586]

>>15374561
>It's hard to take you seriously when you argue like a 12 year old and type shit like:
I adapted to your level of argument "people eat these things thousands of years ago!! Don't mind if it was a miracle if they lived past 40year"

>You've taken an absolutely retarded stance since you claim not to be vegan or vegetarian and unless you are forced to take dietary supplements which I highly doubt means you passively agree with me

So what's the difference to take supplement to correct your diet or pills to correct your diet in the future?

You also making this bold statement that vegetarians take supplement while they mostly don't. You are confusing vegans with vegetarians

[Anonymous No.15374603]

>>15374575
>Did you know that the studies which determine those risks consider a slice of pizza to be a serving of red meat?
Are you arguing that those studies are not correct? If so feel you should spend less time here and contribute to nutrition science.

> They don't break it down into percentages,
They do retard.

>No one ever tries to make a comparison of a whole meat diet to a whole vegetable diet,
They do retard. Did you ever read a fucking guidelines from WHO or any other organizations?

[Anonymous No.15374604]

>>15361560
>soylent on clearance at walmart
>get a bottle for half off
>poor taste, gritty texture
>not worth the 1.50 I paid

I can see why globalist ethnomasochist weaklings love it though- every sip is a punishment

[Anonymous No.15374616]

>>15364304
>Starch is very satiating
what? it is literally the LEAST satisfying

[Anonymous No.15374622]

>>15374586
So are you forced to take supplements because of your diet?

[Anonymous No.15374646]

>>15374603
It goes like this:
>people get colon cancer a lot, why?
>look at all the foods people eat: meat, veggies, starch
>look at the people who remove meat from their diet
>those people have less colon cancer
>ignore the fact that people who make the conscious decision to remove meat from their diet are also incredibly likely to be eating way more healthy than the average person by every other measure as well
>must be the meat causing it
>how about people who eat low carb, avoid processed foods, and source all their meat from local farms?
>doesn't matter, meat is meat, we've got subsidized corn to sell

[Anonymous No.15374661]

>>15374505
You're not an absolute retard, although per se you are.

>Diet are based on social/economic context. Meat is overabundant and ubiquitous and humans did not evolved yet to loose food scarcity conservation instincts

Oh nvm you definitely are

[Anonymous No.15374686]

>>15374622
No

>>15374646
It doesn't work like that at all.
There are methods for experiment design in order to minimize the false correlations.
It's really hard to design a good experiment in nutrition because humans are involved and foods are complex objects, but they surely don't conclusde something based on just *one study*

>>15374661
>You're not an absolute retard, although per se you are.
you don't know what "absolute" means, don't you?

>Oh nvm you definitely are
Nothing I wrote is wrong, please explain. I'll wait

[Anonymous No.15374708]

>>15374686
Even though you eat meat and don't take supplements, do you consider yourself a healthy person?

[Anonymous No.15374730]

>>15374708
>Even though you eat meat and don't take supplements
I try to consume meat moderately.

>do you consider yourself a healthy person?
No, but diet it's not the only thing that contribute to health

[Anonymous No.15374745]

>>15374730
So you think that moderate amount of meat is contributing to your bad health?

[Anonymous No.15374749]

>>15374686
>they surely don't conclusde something based on just *one study*
Correct, but if every study has the same flawed methodology they'll all come to the same flawed conclusions. Our entire concept of saturated fats being bad started with a study by Ancel Keys who looked at 22 countries and charted their protein, fat, and carb intakes along with their health outcomes and then threw out the countries whose data disagreed with his preconceived notions and then he called it "The Seven Countries Study" which is still referenced by physicians and researchers TO THIS DAY despite its terrible and fraudulent methodology. The theory of dietary cholesterol having a high impact on serum cholesterol comes from feeding rabbits (an herbivore) animal fats and seeing how their bodies can't handle it, as well as studies of fruititarian chimpanzees who also, shockingly enough, can't handle those kinds of fats. But the effect of dietary cholesterol on serum cholesterol in HUMANS remains inconclusive at best and there are studies which show lowering CARB intake actually reduces the negative impacts of high serum cholesterol and can help to heal arterial damage and reduce arterial inflammation/restriction which are what cause cholesterol to clog arteries in the first place.

[Anonymous No.15374797]

>>15374749
>But the effect of dietary cholesterol on serum cholesterol in HUMANS remains inconclusive
But dietary cholesterol is not saturated fat.

The fact that dietary cholesterol contributes only marginally to blood cholesterol is fact in modern nutrition.
The fact that saturated fats (especially if they are animal) contribute to cholesterol in human is a known fact at the state of the art.
You are trying to prove somethings providing old information.

[Anonymous No.15374807]

>>15374745
According to what nutrition suggests, no

[Anonymous No.15374861]

>>15374797
>The fact that saturated fats (especially if they are animal) contribute to cholesterol in human is a known fact
No, it's fucking not.

[Anonymous No.15374905]

>>15374861
Yes it is.

[Anonymous No.15374924]

>>15365814
It has all the minerals!

[Anonymous No.15374973]

>>15374905
You really need to stop getting all your health information from the American Heart Association. There's a series of 6 videos from Dr. Jason Fung you should watch that could help broaden your perspective and serve as a foundation for deeper research into these topics if you care to do so. Each is about an hour long and I recommend watching all 6 before drawing conclusions. Here's the first one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpllomiDMX0

If you do dive in, you'll see that there's a lot more controversy behind these so-called facts than you might think. I hope you decide to look deeper.

[Anonymous No.15374978]

>>15374604
It's not meant to be tasty.

[Anonymous No.15374980]

.

[Anonymous No.15374991]

A higher percentage of vegetarian foods are healthy than non-vegetarian foods are, but it's possible to eat well either with or without meat.

[Anonymous No.15375060]

>>15361560

>20g of plant protein

Literally an inferior protein source as its bio-availability means your body does not uptake nearly so much in comparison to an equivalent amount of animal protein.

[Anonymous No.15375066]

BUY VOOGA

[Anonymous No.15375111]

>>15375060
When Soylent first started they got the protein and fat from algae and it actually had bioavailability comparable to animals sources. Years into it they decided to switch to sunflower oil and soy protein and ruined it completely. Increased the profit margin but ruined what was once actually a fairly cutting-edge product by turning it into generic vegan slop.

[Anonymous No.15375173]

>>15374978
i don't understand

[Anonymous No.15375229]

>>15375173
It was designed to be a neutral-tasting nutritional drink so that you could potentially drink it every day without growing tired of it like you might with something flavored more strongly. The creator's original idea was a single thing you could drink for 100% of your calorie intake while remaining healthy by getting all your recommended macros and micros in one source.

[Anonymous No.15375623]

>>15375229
Jesus Christ. So the 'eat the bugs goy' meme is real.

[Anonymous No.15375717]

>>15375623
It was one crazy autistic programmer's idea of feeding the world and it never remotely approached his goals. He dreamed of having literal municipal Soylent supplies that would come to your home in a tap like water so that no one would ever have to worry about basic nutrition and they could eat any other food as they pleased but still always be able to rely on the Soylent as a bare minimum. I don't think it's really as sinister as you're implying here. And of course all food companies hate Soylent and its derivatives because the concept of it would undermine so much of their business if it actually caught on to those kinds of levels where everyone used it regularly. If anything, the original dream of Soylent was the opposite of "eat the bugs goy" because it was trying to topple the food megacorps in a way, and it was whatever asshole took over as CEO of Soylent a couple years back who drove the quality of the product into the ground and ruined its reputation even among its most loyal consumers. If you want to project sinister intentions anywhere, that's the place you should do it.

[Anonymous No.15375733]

>>15364125
This is your brain on autism

[Anonymous No.15375754]

>>15364469
>the 1950s doctor diet

Surprised you didn't recommend a pack of camels as well