Wine

[Anonymous No.15037876]

Is there actually an appreciable difference between cheap wines and expensive wines or is it just placebo? If I reach for the bottom shelf stuff, am I based or cringe?

[Anonymous No.15037882]

>>15037876
Experiments have shown that most wine snobs can't tell the difference between cheap wine; if you put cheap stuff in an expensive looking bottle they'll declare it's as good as the real thing.

*Some* very experienced sommeliers can taste the difference, but those are rare and you aren't one them, so go wild and buy whatever it is you like.

[Anonymous No.15037885]

>>15037876
Buy one bottom shelf, middle and one top of the same kind of wine, cover up the labels or transfer them to different containers, then drink them with friends.

I think wine is a meme drink for women, though.

[Anonymous No.15037899]

>>15037882
Hmm..when buying wine I first look at the cheap stuff and then pick the one with the most visually appealing label. So I think I'll just keep doing that.

>>15037885
>I think wine is a meme drink for women, though.
Interesting that you say that because I actually am a woman.

[Anonymous No.15037912]

>>15037899
Well I'm gonna need you to post pictures your feet.

[Anonymous No.15037920]

>>15037912

[Anonymous No.15037925]

>>15037920
Then you need to delete your thread.

[Anonymous No.15037930]

less than 5 USD is usually terrible, then quality generally increases with price until about 15 USD after which it stops increasing

[Anonymous No.15038153]

You are all so fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.15038244]

>>15037882
Although I agree that "wine connoisseurs" are mostly full of shit, I'm not sure the cheap wine in a bad bottle placebo discounts the possibility of perceivable differences. Non-alcoholic drinks generate placebo effects on unwitting subjects, but you obviously cant take that to mean the alcohol itself has no actual neurological effect.

Another study involved adding flavorless red food dye to white wine then gave it to 'world renowned' wine snobs. Not a single one noticed and >90% instantly began describing it exactly as they would a red when there is an obvious difference between red and white wine even to someone with no experience.

I'd like to see an ABX test with coveted vs generic grocery store wines of the same or even different styles. Separate trials with snobs and generic population would be interesting too.

[Anonymous No.15038378]

>>15037876
I remember watching some doco talking about what >>15037882 was saying and basically if your spending over twenty bucks on a bottle, its a meme.
Ive drunk a little wine here and there, tried buying some once and both bottles tasted like shit (white and a red), proper champagne isnt so bad imho. I usually just drink whatever cheap shit is on special like fake malibu or weird cider flavor things which are just reconstituded wine lol. Pic related is great tho.

[Anonymous No.15038382]

Wine tasting is mostly bullshit, but cheap wines usually are awful. You usually wont miss If you stick to middleshelf stuff tho,

[Anonymous No.15038463]

>>15038244
>Another study involved adding flavorless red food dye to white wine then gave it to 'world renowned' wine snobs.
the subjects in question were STUDENTS at a wine school, not professionals
every thread with you faggots
all we need is for someone to post megapurple and the judgement of paris then this thread can die the same way as every other one

Here are some law-driven facts:
>California is the largest purchaser of beet sugar in the world, with Caymus being the largest single winery purchaser. Beet sugar is used to sweeten wines.
>California has also lobbied HEAVILY to not be required to disclose what goes into their wine (ie mega purple, a fortified high-alcohol additive used to make wines pitch black)
>All of Europe has laws on how wine can and can't be processed, as well as what is and isn't allowed to be produced

Any californian wine under 20 dollars will be heavily manipulated with little exception. There are a handful of biodynamic wines that fall under 20 bucks, but most stuff at the grocery store won't be.

Everyone has their price ceiling, and it's funny how they always claim it's where wine stops changing. The truth is there are marginal improvements in quality and intensity all the way up to the multi-hundreds, but it's diminishing returns. Same with scotch, same with cars, same with mechanical watches. Don't be a retard and say there's literally no difference, because the same studies you like to throw around also say that most people can tell the difference between a high end and a low end wine, even if they don't know or can't articulate the difference.

Just copped these bad boys.

[Anonymous No.15038503]

>>15037876
Spend no more than $15 per bottle, unless it's a gift. You'll find something that will fit the bill for you. The more expensive wines are from specific vintages when the grapes were particularly well grown that year and you can age them if you store them properly. Some age better than others, no way to really tell unless you want to study a lot of shit.

Either way, anything over $5 and no more than $15, will give you a good option that you'll probably enjoy when you find the actual flavors you enjoy through different grapes and different regions.

[Anonymous No.15038532]

>>15038153
newfags get out. This site literally does not want you here if you cannot be assed to learn the culture and then get mad when the site doesn't revolve you.

[Anonymous No.15038795]

>>15038463
Ur right my bad, "The wine comparison test was carried out by 54 undergraduates from the Faculty of Oenology of the University of Bordeaux"

The point I was trying to make was that arranging the tests explicitly to produce a placebo*does not* discount the possibility for substantive differences. Gizmodo and the like "le wine tasting rekt!" articles are memes and a prime example of how ifuckinglovescience journalists think about the methodology of the papers they feature about as much as Bezos thinks about the water bill.

It should be done with some standard form of discrimination testing, like it is in any form of sensory analysis, instead of this oddly childish attempt by researchers to get their 'owned!' moment.

[Anonymous No.15038895]

>>15037876
I've been drinking wine for like 15 years pretty heavily and without a doubt cheap wines have a noticeable sour/chemical flavour

I've mostly had cask wine(ausfag here) and it's definitely noticeably worse than a midrange cost

the best wine I've had was pennfolds grange 1980-something was given a few bottles by a filthy rich friend and they were unironically the nicest wine I've ever tasted, the flavours were actually very noticeable but subtle

spending that much on wine is a meme though, total waste of money you don't need anything more than a decent midrange like $20-40 a bottle and they are still great. The biggest difference isn't from cheap-expensive imo

it's from very cheap-cheap, only the worst cheapest wines are noticeably horrible

[Anonymous No.15038983]

>>15038463
What are the best California reds that are still reasonably priced?

On the rare occasion I buy wine I usually go for Joseph Phelps Insignia or Stags Leap.

[Anonymous No.15038991]

>>15037899
Post tits

[Anonymous No.15039003]

>>15038463
>but most stuff at the grocery store won't be
most of the stuff at grocery stores isn't from california. I buy wine imported from spain at walmart

[Anonymous No.15039063]

>>15038795
Lots of expensive wines are meant to be aged, and if the profile you're looking for is freshly-picked black fruit, then an old-ass grand cru pinot noir isn't gonna be for you. There's also the issue of high-pedigree wines needing much more decanting than the average consumer is willing to give, if at all. For example, Kongsgaard's Syrah, if you check the winemaker notes, calls for 6 to 24 hours of decanting. If you pop it and drink it right away, I bet it tastes like tar and sharpie.

Wine production has been consolidated into small producers and ultra-giant mega-conglomerates, which has made price/quality a crapshoot for the average buyer. If you were to pick two wines out of the ether, just by law of how much shit wine is out there, they would both probably be shit.

This is all my way of saying that wine is individual. Taking anyone's word on what's good or what should be drank or what's placebo is stupid.

>>15038983
If you're looking for high quality, Booker/My Favorite Neighbor are making the absolute best wines for the money, granted they're in the 30-70 dollar price range depending on which one you get, but they handily outdrink things triple their price
Ridge single-vineyard zinfandels are fucking incredible also, too expensive for most zin drinkers and too cheap for most cab drinkers, so the prices have remained around 30-40 bucks. The Pagani Ranch and Lytton Springs would command much higher prices if they were well-known among cab drinkers. I think both are 94/95 point rated, not that ratings mean much these days.

If you want to drop big dollars on a showstopper a la Insignia, Bevan. the 100-ish dollar Ontogeny is unironically on par with or better than Insignia and probably the best luxury wine for the money. Melka's wines are really nice too but not as explosively fruity and will run you a lot more money. But if you find the Meli Melo, which is his entry-level blend, on the shelf somewhere for around 50, get it, because it's fabulous.

[Anonymous No.15039105]

>>15037882
>>15037876
This.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/budget-aldi-wine-wins-two-prestigious-awards-beating-100-reds--c-1385658

[Anonymous No.15039122]

>>15038895
Im lucky enough to live in Margerat river.
I can get two of these bad boys for $32. Rrp $24.

[Anonymous No.15039127]

Wine is so retarded. There are a million bottles there and you just have to pick a random one and hope it’s good? Ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.15039139]

>>15039122
>Im lucky enough to live in Margerat river
You sound like it too LMAO

[Anonymous No.15039485]

>>15037876
You'll get diminishing returns. Check a cheap 1yr bottle of Chianti vs. a 4-5 year and a 10 year from the same winery for a cheap-ish but good Pepsi challenge if you'd like. The oak will mellow out some tannic harshness, and the remaining bit of yeast will hopefully clean up a bit more sugar and off flavours before it dies completely. I find that sweet spot between 2 and 8 years depending on the wine, where it's been tamed, but it's still got a bit of the funk to it... Some wines are great very young - some Spanish and Portuguese wines are better than alright 3 months in.

There's a tradeoff though - the older it is, the more chance it's had to fuck off on you - cork rot, oxidization from improper corking or too little yeast in solution, weird B vitamin flavours from too much dead yeast in solution, sunburn.

It's a crapshoot at best. Experiment, but when you find something you like, keep it in mind.

[Anonymous No.15039494]

>>15038532
>muh board culture!!!
kys

[Anonymous No.15039500]

>>15038532
>When the site doesn't revolve you.
SPIN NEWFAGS, SPIN!

Sorry, too much wine.

[Anonymous No.15039537]

>>15037876
Do any wine snobs have advice on how to choose a wine for cooking with? I never know whats the best type to buy or what the differences are.
To be more specific what would you get for
Fish or shellfish
Chicken
Steak

[Anonymous No.15039540]

>>15039122
Manji here. Havnt had a good wine in a long time. I usually stick to tawny.

[Anonymous No.15039606]

What even makes a wine "good"? It all tastes fairly revolting to me. All this talk in this thread on 'diminishing returns' etc, but what are we even talking about here? The taste? It all tastes kind of bad, some worse than others. I mean its literally grape juice that's rotten, literally. It contains ethanol (a toxic solvent) that causes cancer and brain damage.

I just don't get it. The fermentation removes the sugar, which is what makes grape juice taste good.

I am literally an alcoholic and I've drunk shitloads of wine. What I noticed is that true bottom shelf, and cask, generally tastes acrid, but if you add some juice its fine. Anything lower shelf or mid shelf tastes 'tolerable' (you can drink it without wincing). Never tried truly expensive wine, don't care to.

Also, when selecting your wine I say go for white wine, because it tends to give less severe hangovers. I just buy bottom or lower shelf, if its terrible I add juice, if its tolerable I drink it straight, to save juice.

Pretty sure its all just one giant meme. All wine, literally every single wine I've had just tastes varying degrees of bad to me (I've had award winning wines). Price seems to only correlate with the degree of badness when its the cheapest wines

[Anonymous No.15039647]

>>15039537
For cooking, use the same kind of wine you would comfortably pair with the finished dish
white wine for the first two, typically the intensity of the wine should be matched with the intensity of the food. Chardonnay is pretty much impossible to fuck up as long as you avoid the dirt-cheap butter bombs. Gewurstraminer is also a really good choice.

For steak, a 15-20 dollar bordeaux superior is your best bet. You can drink it with the meal too.

>>15039606
quality wine is often complex, as in a wide variety of flavors, intense, as in very clear and very expressive of those flavors, lingering, as in the flavors stay around for a long time, and harmonious, as in there are no obvious spikes in dryness or acidity or bitterness--the wine melds into itself and is a complete, seamless transition from start to finish.

The difference between shit wines and decent wines? That improvement continues as you rise through price thresholds. There are also certain flavor profiles that you won't get in cheap wines, things like szechuan peppercorn in Pauillac wines and truffle in some red burgundy cru sites

[Anonymous No.15039745]

>>15039537
White with fish and fowl, red with red.
Use more tannic stuff if you want the wine to be prominent in the finished dish, and lighter stuff if you don't.

[Anonymous No.15039747]

>>15039606
>it all tastes kind of bad
>pretty sure it's all just one giant meme
You are unequipped to talk about wine. Please buy vodka and drink that instead.

[Anonymous No.15039852]

>>15039063
Thanks for the recommendations.

I'll check out My Favorite Neighbor, I like zinfandel.

By the way, do you like the movie Sideways? Hahahah!

[Anonymous No.15039882]

>>15039747
>>15039647
This is some emporers new clothes shit

Nobody needs to be 'equipped' or learned or sophisticated to know that fruit juice tastes good. So why when we rot that juice to produce a drug, suddenly all the pretentious lovers come out to wax lyrical about the complexity and flavor.

Flavour is far less sophisticated than you think. You don't need an intellect to 'know' something tastes good. You literally just sense it. It goes back to our evolutionary last.

The reality is that wine tastes bad. Its grape juice that's gone off. It offers our bodies nothing of nutrition or substance. Just tannins, ethanol, and some flavour compounds. Our bodies instinctual reject this, but we overcome this because we want the drug, or like the fags in this thread, we want to appear sophisticated, cultured, refined. Its pathetic .

[Anonymous No.15039996]

>>15039537
Can't go wrong with getting wine from a country that the dish originates from.

[Anonymous No.15040001]

>>15039882
You don't have to drink it if you don't like it bro.

[Anonymous No.15040047]

>>15038378
You should try drinking some sweet vermouth. It's wine with added alcohol, sugar and botanicals. Most people think of vermouth as an ingredient for cocktails, but the red variety is very nice to drink neat or on the rocks. I recommend Carpano Antica, Punt e Mes and Cocchi di Torino. Avoid mass market brands like Martini&Rossi, Cinzano or anything from California.

[Anonymous No.15040102]

>>15039882
They hated him for he spoke the truth

[Anonymous No.15040109]

Expensive ones taste worse but don't give you a death headache in the morning, cheep wines are more palatable but you pay the extra in the morning

[Anonymous No.15040125]

Ive started a wine collection here in the pacific northwest and its quite robust. Will build a wine cellar. The taste between good stuff and bad is night and day, but I will drink the cheaper stuff for my binge drinking. People with all these cheesey wine antidotes your poor dad told you to justify drinking his gut rot are just compensating for failure or ignance.

[Anonymous No.15040278]

>>15039647
>szechuan peppercorn in Pauillac wines
Wow they actually add szechuan peppercorns to their wine? Crazy!

Oh wait not they don't so you can't fucking taste "szechuan peppercorn" because it isn't there you pretentious fucking faggot. Jesus fuck *this exact bullshit* is why everybody hates wine snobs.

[Anonymous No.15040425]

>>15039540
My wife loves truffles. I cant stand the things. Taste like dirt to me to be honest. I can tolerate small amounts on salad and in Arancini. The goose in Busselton sell Truffle Arancini, which is alright.

Cape cellars is good. But plenty of Cellar doors where you are though. I usually buy bin ends from the cellar doors then try the "Non-bin-end" version if I like the wine.

Was think about heading down that way soon to stay at Karri Valley. Such a good spot.

>>15039139
How is that a comment?.
I lucky enough to be able to try heaps of different wines for cheap. I am no expert.

[Anonymous No.15040522]

>>15037876
Any wine that isn't back-sweetened is fine with me.
Just buy a variety of wines, and keep drinking the ones you like.
My favorite pinot is $20 more expensive than my favorite chardonnay but I'd be fine drinking either.

[Anonymous No.15040525]

>>15040278
imagine being so mad about not having a good palate

[Anonymous No.15040527]

>>15040522
Süßreserve is absolutely fine if the year's wine was too severe.

[Anonymous No.15040531]

>>15040527
Personal preference. Most of the backsweetened wine around me is shitty.
I'm open to trying it again but I'm mostly stuck in my ways at this point when I get wine because I'm trying to save money and don't want to buy something I don't end up liking.

[Anonymous No.15040558]

>>15039882
Yeah bro you got it all figured out.
Why eat gouda that's been aged for 2 years with a glass of wine when you could just have a glass of fresh unspoiled milk with some nice grape drank on the side. Taste good. Evolution brah.
Wake up sheeple.

[Anonymous No.15040682]

>>15040525
If you think you can taste something that isn't actually in the thing you're eating or drinking, that's the opposite of a good palate.

[Anonymous No.15040685]

Yes, just like there's an appreciable difference between your homemade slop and food made by a kitchen ran by trained professionals with years of experience

People with shit-tier tastebuds won't notice the difference though.

[Anonymous No.15040698]

>>15039537

[Anonymous No.15040809]

This one was pretty good.

[Anonymous No.15040878]

>>15037885
Jesus disapproves

[Anonymous No.15040961]

>>15040878
>first miracle was turning water into wine
>wine makes the heart glad
>Timothy drank bit of wine for gut issues
>no its just fruitjuice bro
I am a 6 creationist but Im not that dumb

[Anonymous No.15041015]

I have been working at a pretty fancy/upscale liquor store that focuses on wine, and have been drinking it pretty much exclusively as my alochol of choice this whole past year. I have tried a decent amount, and I also get to taste most of the wine that the sales rep are trying to get us to bring into the store. When I am tasting these wines, we pretty much taste them blind. They tell us the cost after the fact. Based on this, I can very condifendtly say that the difference in quality as the price increases is pretty damn obvious. For me, and maybe this is my untrained palate, wine increases in quality with the price up until around $50 or $60 at which point I feel you would need to be very invested, and very rich to justify it. Yes, a $150 wine can taste better than a $50 wine, but the average person probably wont appreciate it or care.

Sometimes you need to pay that kind of money, say if you wanted a Montrachet or something, but yeah, generally I would say it is not worth it to the average person.

My sweet spot is about $15-$30. At that price range I am normally very happy. Of course, there is decent wine at lower prices, and as I said I will spend around $50 or so on a bottle for a holiday. But thats just my humble opinion based of my personal anecdotal evidence. Feel free to disagree with me and post the same "studies" over and over again or have a panic attack because nice things are a scam.

[Anonymous No.15041206]

>>15040278
Obviously it doesn't literally have szechuan peppercorns. It has flavor/aromatic compounds in common with or similar to szechuan peppercorns.

Wines can have many thousands of these compounds. When people say they find a flavor of X in wine, what they mean is that a compound or combination of compounds there is reminiscent of X. Different people get different flavors from wine because their brains sort through and group the compounds differently, and have different ways of interpreting them.

Being into wine is like any hobby, where the more interest/knowledge you have, the more you notice and care about little things, and the more what you care about in regards to that hobby changes.

I have a brother that's a really avid carpenter, whereas I can do really basic hone repair type stuff and that's it. If you have me threee, say, hammers and asked me to choose between them, I'd pick whichever one was comfortae and cheap and be perfectly happy with that, but my brother might have a very different experience. In my case, I work in a high end kitchen for a living. I have a very different view on kitchen knives than your average person might. Same idea.

[Anonymous No.15041244]

>>15041015
There are a few real levels of diminishing returns and you definitely seem to have found them, 'untrained' or not.

Imo, sub-$15 wine is a crapshoot. Sure there's some really good wine in there but also a lot that's very boring and a lot that's crap.

$15-30 or 40 most of the wine will be at least decent, and you start to find bottles that are not just really good but interesting/exciting, if you go for less well known or expensive areas.

$50 is a real plateau for quality, where more and more what you're paying for is either uniqueness/interesting qualities or prestige. Quality does continue to improve, particularly when you move into being able to afford some bottle age or certain appelations, but it's a lot slower.

Above say $150 you're pretty much only paying for either prestige or age. The latter can really be worth it if you don't mind spending the money, though.

[Anonymous No.15041255]

>drinking alcohol
>in 2020

[Anonymous No.15041259]

>>15037876
placebo. the whole shtick doesnt survive blind trials. its somewhere between psychic mediums and chiropractic medicine

[Anonymous No.15041311]

>>15037876
Not a wine drinker but things such as the type of fruit, and aging can definitely change the taste.

[Anonymous No.15041329]

>>15037899
post arm pits

[Anonymous No.15041343]

>>15040682
>this wine tastes of Vanilla!
>vanillin, a compound in charred wood, is molecularly very similar, and tastes similar
>this wine tastes of bell pepper!
>pyrazine, a compound found in certain soils, is also found in bell peppers

That shit is literally, scientifically there, keep coping

[Anonymous No.15041482]

>>15041255
fuck off Mohammed

[Anonymous No.15041988]

>>15037899
armpits

[Anonymous No.15042079]

>>15037899
tits or gtfo

[Anonymous No.15042357]

>>15037876
>>15038895
Can confirm, take that new zeland wine: Yellow Tail, retails here for 5 dollars. Has a distinct chemical flavor. It might be the rubber cork or not. ALso, Wine is better than Canned beer.

I don't know where you anons live but for Ten dollars you can get a wine that tastes similar to Chavel Blanc Bordeaux (>$600 per) and it's San Gregorio Tempralano. It's a red wine, that also gets high ratings around 91-95. Search for it on the Al Gore's amazing internet. The old vine San Gregorio is the one that really has a nice flavor.

I've had really great wines including Chavel Blanc Bordeaux's, and there is a difference.

WHen you go to the Liqour store check out their French wines. If they have a large selection, then you are in a good wine store with a lot of gems there. Anything in 30-50 dollar range should be good.
Also for Sparkling wine for Holidays, a dry Mumm Nappa is always a hit, since most plebes get Korbel ($15).

[Anonymous No.15043727]

>>15039882
Are you fucking autistic? Are you actually, genuinely, suffering from some kind of mental defect that prevents you from properly empathizing with other human beings?
>HURR DURR IF I DONT LIKE IT ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO LIKE IT
Literal baby reasoning. The insensate gibberish of a fucking headstunted retard child who would happily eat macaroni and cheese from birth to death. I wish I could see you face to face so I could memorize the physiognomy of people who think like you do, and then feed you your teeth.

[Anonymous No.15043732]

>>15039882
>everything that's not corporate-issue soy protein and caffeine sloppa shit is made up and fake and just pretentious people faking
I actually want to hurt you.

[Anonymous No.15043738]

>>15042357
Yellow Tail is mass-produced swill. If you want good New Zealand wine in the States, you're going to have to shell out $20 or $30 per bottle, and you should be looking for Sauvignon Blanc and Pinot Noir.

[Anonymous No.15043755]

>>15037876
I don't know where all this misreported nonsense comes from.
Every idiot can tell the difference between expensive and cheap wine. The big scandal has always been that everyone but experienced wine drinkers prefer the cheap wine.

Anyway how much you pay for a wine depends on your local market conditions.
Here it's hard to find something good at $5-$10, it's easy to find something good at $15, $20-25 is a decent step above, you then have a minor step above in the under $50 range, and another minor step above in the under $200 range. I've never drank anything more expensive.

[Anonymous No.15043756]

>>15037876
I just drink the 2.97 bottom shelf. 13% it gets the job done. It's called being a wino.

[Anonymous No.15043771]

>>15037882
They have improved upon this. You can serve someone the same wine twice blind, tell them it's a higher price the second time, and they literally will enjoy it more as observed by brain scans.

Of course point 1 (snobs can't tell the difference), and point 2 (put cheap stuff in an expensive) are unrelated. The former is false.

[Anonymous No.15043772]

>>15043755
Normies:
>this wine tastes like black olives and makes my mouth pucker, so sour, what the fuck, gross
Wine fiends:
>this wine has a long-lingering black olive note that complements the high tannins superbly

And yet plebs have the audacity to retread the same old memes about how all vinting and wine-tasting is just pretension and making shit up

[Anonymous No.15043777]

>>15037899
I suggest you reverse this. Pick the one with the most boring label, and never buy a wine with more than one medal depicted on it.

[Anonymous No.15043778]

Anyone heard of Kalin wines? I was gifted a bottle.

[Anonymous No.15043790]

>>15043777
Trips of truth. An ostentatious nouveau-riche craft beer-style label with a fucktillion laminated gold medals that all say '91' or '92' means the wine doesn't shine on its own merits and has no reputation.

[Anonymous No.15043801]

>>15043778
Their Pinot Noir is great, and their Semillion is half-decent. Couldn't tell you about the rest.

[Anonymous No.15043805]

>>15043801
The bottle I have is Semillion, what am I in for? Also, what's the thing worth price wise?

[Anonymous No.15043825]

>>15039122
>Im lucky enough to live in Margerat river.
I sent to fuckheads to Margaret River to pick me up a bottle of Churchview Estate Sauvignon Blanc Semillon, but they got smashed at the airport and didn't go.
A ~local pub, the Crosskeys (Mel), had a wine of the month and the guy picking them killed it every time. He left and they are paid to shill trash now.
Ever tried it?

[Anonymous No.15043836]

>>15039537
Goon. Preferably Merlot.
Just because you'd drink it doesn't mean it wouldn't ruin your food.

[Anonymous No.15043848]

>>15043772
Good point. The flavors and aspects that people who drink a lot of wine look for are completely different from what the average consumer is looking for.

[Anonymous No.15043858]

>>15039606
The fermentation removes some of the sugar; when the abv gets high enough it kills the yeast.
Alcohol amplifies smell and flavour.
Rotten fruit is sweeter, and is not a bad tasting note.

[Anonymous No.15043875]

>>15043805
Depends on the vintage, but probably $40 or $50 on the shelf.

[Anonymous No.15043876]

>>15040278
>They didn't add it so it's not there
Read into artificial flavors.

[Anonymous No.15043877]

What do you all think of Sake?

[Anonymous No.15043891]

>>15043772
More like
Normies:
>this wine tastes like black olives and makes my mouth pucker, so sour, what the fuck, gross
Wine fiends:
>this wine tastes like black olives and makes my mouth pucker, so sour, delicious

But I have very non pretentious wine friends. Especially the women, who disproportionately drink but do not buy wine.

[Anonymous No.15043901]

>>15043877
Personally, I have trouble enjoying it, because for me most sake has this unique, offputting 'rotten' note that I don't get from grape wine. From my limited experience cheap stuff usually tastes like melon and nice stuff usually tastes like raisins.

[Anonymous No.15043909]

>>15043901
Don't you think Sake has an almost bland straight up "alcohol + water" flavor? i bought some Sake today because im trying to drink healthier stuff

[Anonymous No.15043912]

>>15043891
The pretenses are there for a reason, anon. Whenever I talk to a normie about wine, I have to break down their misuse of words into something I can use- they say 'dry' instead of 'tannic,' they say 'sweet' instead of 'fruit notes,' etc, etc.
It's not silly foo-foo prose, it's technical jargon. Not our fault it sounds pretty to the ear.

[Anonymous No.15043913]

>>15041259
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/v/s/www.forbes.com/sites/thomaspellechia/2019/02/05/a-new-study-asks-answers-the-question-does-blind-wine-tasting-work/amp/%3famp_js_v=0.1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%253D#ampf=

It’s pretty definitively proven that wine survives blind taste trials. In blind tests, positive reviews are strongly correlated with price.

There are like two studies in which scientists fooled some undergrads with good color that /ck/ likes to throw around but these are instances of tests actively lying to their subjects to confuse them.

In truly neutral tests, favorable reviews are almost always correlated with price

[Anonymous No.15043922]

>>15043909
How much did you pay for it? A lot of cheap sake isn't created with the intention of having tasting notes. Unless you're putting down $25+ a bottle, accounting for export costs, you're getting stuff intended for Japanese tipplers.
Soju and baijiu I've found to be much worse offenders in the 'tasting like nothing' category.

[Anonymous No.15043923]

>>15043877
Have never enjoyed.
And I've tried a few.
It's something inherent to sake too, because I've had some out there stuff.

With wheat beer, which I also hate, you can really dial down on what you hate because there's some seriously masked shit out there. Bavarian chocolate wheat beer, etc, which is acceptable to me.

Best I've had are various barrel aged sake.

[Anonymous No.15043934]

>>15043923
You're a woman, right anon?
Don't go for beer, go for ale. Ale doesn't have to be bittered with hops or any other herbal gruit, which gives it a much breadier, more neutral character inoffensive to the bitterlet palate.

[Anonymous No.15043938]

extremely cheap wines suck but $20 is really the most you want to spend on a bottle. I stand by $10 Italian barbera all day.

[Anonymous No.15043942]

>>15043922
>How much did you pay for it?
I paid about $7.50 for 300 mL of Sake.
>cheap sake isn't created with the intention of having tasting notes
Good to know. Do you think Sake is better on your stomach than normal wine?
>>15043923
>Bavarian chocolate wheat beer
That sounds gross. Beer in general is something I just associate with stomach bloating. Sake and wine I've found taste better and fuck your stomach up less.

Anyways is the general consensus that sake is healthier, but more boring, than wine?

[Anonymous No.15043945]

>>15043938
I strongly recommend you pick up a nice $25-30 Nebbiolo.

[Anonymous No.15043946]

>>15043912
Dry vs tannic is a good example because there's actually confusion to be had.
But if you take the opposite approach and try to rule out a wine based upon the jargon on the back of the bottle, you'll find that there is silly foo-foo prose. "Refreshing minerality" is a synonym for "shit tap water."

Ignoring shit like finish: hints of disco and funk.

[Anonymous No.15043960]

>>15043942
Sake isn't healthier than wine. That's a meme.
It just has a set of anti-inflammatory compounds that are different from the ones found in grape wine.
Honestly, it depends on what stomach problem is bothering you.

[Anonymous No.15043967]

>>15043922
Baijiu falls into roughest trashest vodka I've never tried category.
Soju is vodka with a bit more flavor, because barley. But mostly you go for the flavored stuff which is great. Imo cider pears best with Asian food, and fruit flavored soju is not far off.

[Anonymous No.15043972]

>>15043877
I lived in Japan and drank a lot. I went to sake tasting events, got invited to sake tasting parties, and knew a guy who brewed it.
With that context, I can say the following. It isn't my favorite. I definitely don't like it as much as wine or beer. And additionally, the >>15043877
selection/variety of Sake that gets imprted to the US is pretty pathetic in comparison to what is available in Japan AND the prices of sake in the US are absolutely absurd, but I guess that is because it is Japanese and people are willing to pay extra for "Japanese thing".

All that aside, sake in Japan is pretty interesting. Way more options available, way more styles available, and there is lots of experimentation and innovation going on, kind of like the US craft beer scene. I even had some "sour sake" a couple times. Overall it is interesiting stuff, and I do think lots of sake taste really good, but I was never able to really appreciate it on a deep level and pick out tasting notes of it too much.

One kind of sake I can definitely recommend is Yamahai sake. Yamahai is the actual original style/method of sake production before it became more commercial and mass produced. It is really interesting and different tasting, kind of like a wine or beer made with native/ambient yeast. It is expensive even in Japan so expect to pay at least $50 in the US.

>>15043942
You need to pay at least $15 for a 300ml or at least $25 for a 750ml of sake in the states for it to be worth a damn, though even that is the low end. Not saying expensive equals good but rather that sake prices are inflated in the west.

[Anonymous No.15043977]

>>15043946
There's this really nice South American wine, the Ruben & Flora blend from Vinas Tinajas, that I always give as a gift to normies who want to get into wine. It's a great repairer of personal wine terms, because it's dry as fuck, but it isn't tannic at all.

Minerality can be good in wine. Just beware German and Australian wines that advertise minerality, because they'll have a nose of unleaded gasoline.

[Anonymous No.15043982]

>>15037876
I can absolutely tell the difference between the absolute cheapest two or three dollar bottle of wine and an eight or nine dollar bottle of wine. Anything outside of that and it's all the same.

[Anonymous No.15043998]

>>15043934
No.
Ale is beer, and I specifically hate wheat beer. I enjoy literally every other kind of beer. I'm not short on options.
For that matter I enjoy all spirits and wines. Wheat beer and sake are the only wholesale no-go's for me.
Tequila used to be on that list, but I went to a tasting and found something.

>>15043977
I am Australian, lol. Nice pickup.

[Anonymous No.15044001]

>>15043982
That's because the cheapest two or three dollar bottle of wine is Concord grape juice impregnated with grain alcohol, and the $8-9 bottle is actually wine.

[Anonymous No.15044006]

This is the $7.50 bottle with 300 mL of Sake I got. My local liquor store has 750 mL sake bottles going for $8....so I’m assuming I got something reasonably higher in quality.

[Anonymous No.15044031]

>>15044006
That isn't even from Japan...

[Anonymous No.15044035]

>>15043998
>wheat beer is a no-go
You have strange taste.
If you want to try good sake, I don't know what they export to Australia, considering that it's much closer to Japan than the US' Eastern seaboard, but you should keep an eye out for anything marked Junmai Daiginjo. That means each grain of rice was polished to ~50% of its original mass before fermentation, and a lot of the harsher, more astringent notes typical of cheap, low-polish sake are subtler or didn't form at all.

[Anonymous No.15044040]

>>15043972
>One kind of sake I can definitely recommend is Yamahai sake. Yamahai is the actual original style/method of sake production before it became more commercial and mass produced.
Thanks
>It is expensive even in Japan so expect to pay at least $50 in the US.
Fuck that.
>You need to pay at least $15 for a 300ml or at least $25 for a 750ml of sake in the states for it to be worth a damn, though even that is the low end.
FUUUUCK that yeah no fucking chance I'm buying high end Sake. I heard that the reason Japanese people are so healthy despite largely being alcoholic is because of 1) diet 2) lifestyle but also 3) their choice of clear drinks like Sake are far healthier than the sugary drinks of the rest of the world.

[Anonymous No.15044047]

>>15044006
>Sho Chiku Bai
Nigger, what the fuck are you doing, that's literally Californian-made cooking sake.
Next time you're at the store, get a bottle of Yuki no Bosha. It's the Japanese equivalent of Meiomi or whatever the local version is of the ubiquitous, competently made but mass market wine.

[Anonymous No.15044054]

>>15044031
Holy fucking KEK I just saw its bottled in Berkeley CA
>>15044047
>Next time you're at the store, get a bottle of Yuki no Bosha.
Thanks, I'll look into this. Although I doubt I'll be able to find one besides the local jap store

[Anonymous No.15044066]

>>15037899
LONDON
O
N
D
O
N

[Anonymous No.15044071]

>OP knows nothing about wine and proceeds to act memey about it
You some kinda faggo-
>I'm a woman btw tee hee!
Okay then.
>>15037899
TITS OR GTFO CUNT

[Anonymous No.15044080]

What do I look for in a 10-20€ wine? Is there a brand or country or or region that has decent wines in this range?

[Anonymous No.15044086]

>>15037876
There is a difference between very cheap wines and mid-upper tier wines
There is almost no difference from mid shelf to extremely expensive wine

[Anonymous No.15044088]

>>15044040
Thing is, sake isn't that expensive in Japan. For the equivalent of $20 I am getting a GREAT sake in Japan but a just decent one in the states, and in addition to inflated prices, we only get like 10% of what the produce. I like Japan and Japanese things a lot and most people would probably call me a weeb, but those biases aside I have to say... Drinking Japanese alcohol outside of Japan just isn't really worth it.

[Anonymous No.15044093]

>>15044035
Among my tasting notes (which are scored for some reason):
Kikumasamune Kimoto Junmai 2/5
Kikumasamune Kimoto Daiginjo 3/5
Kikumasamune Kimoto Taru Sake 3/5

Umeshu and liqueur's scored better. I should follow that up and buy some.

[Anonymous No.15044111]

>>15044093
No, dude, in the context of this conversation, tasting notes are noticeable flavors of a certain thing in a wine, beer, or sake. E.g. a honeydew note in sake or a plum note in a Californian red.

[Anonymous No.15044122]

>>15044088
Thats the issue with Japanese everything in USA. Japanese food is so fresh and good for you that I feel energized the whole day and it feels amazing. Same with Japanese alcohol...it feels great on my stomach and is such a good buzz. If I could eat and drink like a Japanese person my mind and body would feel so much happier but their food is so fucking EXPENSIVE.

[Anonymous No.15044132]

As long as you aren't buying the carton wine or the cheapest bottle, you'll be fine. It takes an experienced palate to appreciate the more expensive ones. Even someone who drinks wine daily will not be able to tell the difference between a 100 and 10000 dollar bottle of wine. In fact the flavors get so developed they might even prefer the cheaper one.

[Anonymous No.15044162]

>>15037876
>Is there actually an appreciable difference between cheap wines and expensive wines or is it just placebo? If I reach for the bottom shelf stuff, am I based or cringe?
There are wines that are delicious young, and then wines that are great for storing and taste better with a little aging.
The newer up and coming vintages that aren't getting the recognition for collectors or just happen to be from the right country can be affordable and will rise in price as the supply falls.
Newb wine drinkers tend to taste test a wine from a particular vineyard, found it palatable when they tried it, and then trustingly buy it over and over/order it over and over.

[Anonymous No.15044173]

I drank a really good white wine once, dry but a touch sweet, perfectly balanced. Forgot the name and everything else about it, never had a white wine that good again :(

[Anonymous No.15044180]

>>15044088
This is the same for everyone, no? We are here saying 5 dollar wine is no good, but go to europe and 5 bucks buys a potable table wine.

[Anonymous No.15044218]

>>15044180
You can get some very palatable everyday wine bottles in Spain as cheap as like 2 yuros, if you buy directly from the producer and get in bulk. My boomer dad did that all the time, the man used to drink half a bottle a day.

[Anonymous No.15044226]

>>15044040
>I heard that the reason Japanese people are so healthy despite largely being alcoholic is because of 1) diet 2) lifestyle but also 3) their choice of clear drinks like Sake are far healthier than the sugary drinks of the rest of the world.
Many japanese are absolutely not alcoholic. They have some genetic reasons for that.

And, alcohol might as well be straight sugar as far as your body is concerned, let alone being from high glycemic index rice.

The health of Japanese people have to do with portion control, and the stats involve people who had a ton of starvation level fasting in their lifetime, octogenarians, people dropping off the radar of statistics in the coming years of stats.

[Anonymous No.15044227]

>>15044088
Tell me the best overall Sake to get in the USA. Affordable but still good.

[Anonymous No.15044230]

>>15044218
And that is a big difference, you do *not* drink 2 dollar wine in North America.

[Anonymous No.15044240]

>>15044230
I can imagine 2 bucks gets you the cartons hobos drink from.

[Anonymous No.15044244]

>>15037876
Usually there is a noticeable difference between very cheap and middle class. But the difference between middle class and expensive is barely noticeable even by experts. The same is true for most products.

[Anonymous No.15044250]

>>15037899
Hello, m'lady

[Anonymous No.15044329]

>>15043825
Once a long time ago. I remember it being a nice summer wine. As in for BBQ's or beach days. It has to be ice cold though.

[Anonymous No.15044492]

>>15044111
Why is there this baseless assumption that I'm a noob.
I just posted the name and scores. There's more, but who cares.
Besides, the level of detail of my notes is my problem. I usually use a straight up yes/no system because it works when I'm smashed.

[Anonymous No.15044571]

>>15037882
>>>15037876 (OP)
>Experiments have shown
>m'lady i am a most enlightened gentleman

[Anonymous No.15044658]

>>15037882
just like how weed snobs act like different strains of pot have different effects/highs. Total load of bullshit.

[Anonymous No.15044716]

>just like how weed snobs act like different strains of pot have different effects/highs. Total load of bullshit.

[Anonymous No.15044735]

>blocks all your paths, dabs on you, then does the chef's kiss

[Anonymous No.15044738]

>>15044735
Based

[Anonymous No.15044746]

>>15044658
They do.

[Anonymous No.15044764]

>>15044746
You know what you’re right, they do. I just needed someone to disagree with me to make me realize how wrong I was. Thank you anon.

[Anonymous No.15044767]

I've worked at both high end expensive wineries and mass production cheap wineries. There is some plonk that I think if u have any sort of palette you will find undrinkable and some wines that are so remarkable and complex that they stand apart. But the main difference between a $10 and a $30 bottle of wine is the chemical manipulation going in. Technology is really good and you can buy all kinds of adulterants and just drop tons of sugar or acid or any other additive to a cheap wine to make it taste good. More expensive wines are USUALLY less adulterated because achieving the same result takes higher quality grapes, more man-hours, more time, all add to the price. On Australia I watched dump trucks of grapes thrown into a mash thresher filled with caterpillars, lizards, debris, etc and this all goes into the wine. Boutique wineries a lot more quality control goes in. There's tons of bullshit in wine but there is a big difference in production

[Anonymous No.15044772]

>>15044767
Queer

[Anonymous No.15044778]

>>15044735
Based. My Italian Grandfather always had jugs of this stuff and drank some everyday. Lived to be 96.

[Anonymous No.15044786]

>>15044716
i dont smoke but different concentrations of cbd or thc have different effects, right?

[Anonymous No.15044809]

>>15044778
Based nonno

[Anonymous No.15044814]

>>15044778
y do italians live so long

[Anonymous No.15044821]

>>15044778
Based wop grandpa

[Anonymous No.15045031]

>>15044767
This is interesting thank you for replying bro. you are not a queer

[Anonymous No.15045039]

>>15037876
Wait anon, you BUY wine?!?! make it yourself it’s easy and 10 times better than shit you buy at the store and a fraction of the cost

[Anonymous No.15045042]

>>15044735
carlo rossi’s alright but i only but it when i need a new fermentation vessel

[Anonymous No.15045057]

>>15044814
Wine and olive oil

[Anonymous No.15045073]

>>15045057
Wine is bad for you and olive oil doesnt have as many antioxidants as they shill it to have

[Anonymous No.15045194]

>>15045073
>wine is bad for you
If you're an alcoholic.
Not more than a glass a day is good for you.

[Anonymous No.15045256]

>>15045031
Appreciate it anon
>>15044772
The death of your entire family would bring me great joy

[Anonymous No.15045263]

>>15045256
U Gay irl

[Anonymous No.15046057]

>>15037876
>Is there actually an appreciable difference between cheap wines and expensive wines or is it just placebo? If I reach for the bottom shelf stuff, am I based or cringe?
Ausfag here, drinking a glass of a $80 and can't tell the difference with a $40.
I think it's a meme as a topshelf spirit normally always is significantly better

[Anonymous No.15046093]

>>15043877
>What do you all think of Sake?
>Have a sip
>Think it's great
>Have three sips
>Don't want another drink ever again

[Anonymous No.15046266]

There is definitely a difference, hell you should be able to tell the difference between different wines on the same price range.
This being said more expensive doesn't necessarily mean better

[Anonymous No.15046269]

>>15037876
Just buy the one you like and if you save a few $$s the better. Each geographic region has similar flavours because of the water, soil and air quality. If you like the complexity of the wine and you're happy with the price then that's all that matters.
Also true wine appreciators will tell you there is no such thing as a white wine glass or red wine glass. You use the size that you feel like.

[Anonymous No.15046367]

What's the best alcohol free red wine that's not cheap tier?

[Anonymous No.15047264]

>>15044735
For me, it's the Paisano.

[Anonymous No.15047269]

>>15047264

[Anonymous No.15047319]

>>15046367
>alcohol free red wine
Grape juice?

[Anonymous No.15048398]

Male wine drinker here. It’s funny buying a good Bordeaux. I usually get asked who I’m buying it for, Wife? Mother? Sister? Surely it can’t be for yourself. Then when I tell it’s for me, I get a shocked look. They recover and decide to ‘play along’ with me. Then they start telling me lots of things I know I about wine.
It’s at this point, if I can be bothered, I go through their shelves and tell them all the ones I’ve tasted and why I like them or not. Which regions I prefer, big up Marlborough, and why I’m not a fan of Californian and 100% prefer Spanish.
Now is when I think they feel bad. Because they always offer me loads of samples. I can usually free taste like 4/5 different ones min on every visit.
Having said that met a really nice man last time through the airport who was giving out Schlumberger samples. We had a great chat. He was awesome.
Now girls at bars when you order a large white find you immediately intriguing. They watch you take a sip. I think they are waiting to see if you make a face. When you look pleased then they have their in to strike up a conversation.
I don’t know a lot of other male wine drinkers but I wish I did. I can only go on so many tasting sessions with girls.

[Anonymous No.15048665]

>>15037876
Just buy a bottle of Apothic Red and fuhgeddaboudit.

[Anonymous No.15048718]

>>15046057
IMO the next step after under $50's is under $200's.