/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.14142923]

>preach about their diet and force their beliefs on others, even indoctrinating their kids at birth
>believe they're better than anyone else and harass others
>are privileged to even eat their food
>indirectly kill millions of animals every year, despite them loving animals
>eating garbage food that harms their body
>spread propaganda
>a lot of energy is used up to make their food
>believe their diet is for the good for the Earth

So what does everyone else think about omnivores?

[Anonymous No.14142944]

Based OP fighting the good fight

[Anonymous No.14142973]

>>14142944
>>14142923
I started a vegan diet and now I have permanent nephropathy because I can't get enough B12.

Thanks faggots.

[Anonymous No.14142996]

>>14142973
Oh, and B12 vitamins (even the pills) are derived from animal products. It is literally impossible to be truely vegan and be healthy

[Anonymous No.14143009]

>>14142973
This. My aunt’s friend’s uncle’s son’s daughter’s cousin’s great-grandpa’s acquaintance developed eight different cancers and an aneurysm because of veganism. He wasn’t even a vegan, but by just being near a vegan he got exposed to so much unhealthiness it killed him.

[Anonymous No.14143014]

>>14142996
No they aren't.

[Anonymous No.14143042]

>>14142996
>bacteria that produce B12 are animals
Part II of the “vegans can’t eat yeast because it’s alive” argument.

[Anonymous No.14143108]

>>14142996
Google watercress retard

[Anonymous No.14143253]

Bump

[Anonymous No.14143259]

why are vegans raiding food and cooking boards if they hate food and cooking?

[Anonymous No.14143271]

>>14143009
Butt hurt soi boi

[Anonymous No.14143275]

>>14143271
That post seemed very exaggerated, it was more like a jab at anti vegans who claim over the top things that vegans did when in reality it never happened

[Anonymous No.14143299]

>>14143275
vegans actually do all the over the top things you deny, you're just a coping homosexual.

[Anonymous No.14143304]

>>14143271
Bigger dicks and lesser bodyfat, vegans are coming for your sisters

[Anonymous No.14143321]

>>14143304
vegans are the sisters more ften than not

[Anonymous No.14143336]

>>14143321
The sisters with bigger dicks and less bodyfat who are coming for your sisters

[Anonymous No.14143345]

>>14143321
Can I have a one way ticket to your fantasy world?

[Anonymous No.14143364]

>>14142996
Lol just eat dirt, it has all the B12 you need, cuz ya see our vegan ancestors never washed their carrots and fruit

[Anonymous No.14143560]

>>14142923
Daily reminder: veganism is not healthy, natural, good for the environment and most importantly no one can do it "right" just like communism lol. Humans do not have the digestive system to ferment and derive energy from fiber, like gorillas or cows (which ferment the fiber into saturated fat, which makes their diet a high fat one) Plants and most notably seeds are full of toxins (oxalates, phytic acid, hormone mimicking substances, thyroid inhibitors etc.) because plants hate anyone who threatens their reproduction

The vegan diet is inherently deficent, it is a complete inversion of what humans should eat. There are no DHA and EPA fatty acids in plants, and ALA conversion is about 4% when supplied with correct fats, the same goes for carotenoid conversion into vitamin A. It is usually very high in sugar, promoting fatty liver, diabetes and vastly accelerated aging due to system-wide glycation (see early onset brainfog and dementia in vegans) and low protein content (frequently as undigestible lectins) destroys hair, muscles and skin as the body desperately eats itself to keep the vital organs in place

This is a dangerous antihuman agenda diet promoted to cuddly cute animal lovers by charlatans and their zealots whose brains are filled with oxalate crystals and shrunken from low cholesterol, low fat, sugar burnout malnourishment.

As for ethics, naturally raised animals, that is free-range and eating mostly grass have negligible environmental impact, a family of four could eat about two cows a year, when vegans buy the products of chemized manmade grains and legumes made into heavily processed trash, or fruit and vegetables imported from all over the world, I can't quite see how giant monocrop fields sprayed with pesticides are ethical or healthy. Also if the cows do not fart it will be vegans, fermenting lectins and fiber in their constipated guts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaxK1xrlamg

[Anonymous No.14143588]

>>14143560
>wall of bullshit
>youtube link
lol

[Anonymous No.14143617]

>>14143560
Aight, I’ll bite just a bit.
Reminder that the efficiency of the ALA to EPA/DHA and beta-carotene to vitamin A conversion depends on your intake of EPA/DHA and vitamin A respectively; the less you consume the more your body produces. Even so, it’s ridiculously easy to get enough beta-carotene to produce sufficient vitamin A even assuming a low conversion rate. The conversion rate only sounds scary until you realize just how much beta carotene there is in carrots, sweet potatoes etc.
Also reminder that vegans have significantly lower diabetes risk and live longer on average.

[Anonymous No.14143655]

>>14143617
>Also reminder that vegans have significantly lower diabetes risk and live longer on average.
The burden of proof is on vegans, show me the study

[Anonymous No.14143763]

>>14143560
Veganism is an ideological and illogical choice applied to diet. Vegans do not eat meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy, or honey, and do not use leather, fur, silk, wool, cosmetics, and soaps derived from animals.

Veganism is unhealthy and incoherent for a variety of reasons.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/01/vegan-woman-lifestyle_n_5063565.html

Of note, is that some 79% of vegans are women and 59% of vegetarians are women as well. Vegans tend overwhelmingly to be Leftists that earn substantially more money than average.

https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/176565

(1982) Dong & Scott record that 92% of vegans, 64% of lactovegetarians, 47% of lacto-ovovegetarians, and 20% of semivegetarians are deficient in vitamin-B12. Their blood counts are similar to non-vegetarians, but their blood quality is worse on average. Most had mean corpuscular volume just above 100 femtolitres, indicating slight macrocytosis.

The vegan diet sans an extensive regimen of supplementation is usually woefully deficient in a number of nutrients — B12, Creatine, Carnosine, DHA, EPA, ALA, saturated fats, cholesterol, &c. — and in nearly all circumstances fails to achieve both proper protein intake and proper protein ratios.

http://www.jssm.org/vol3/n3/2/v3n3-2pdf.pdf

(2004) Hoffman & Falvo discuss protein, specifically asking "which is best?"

They discuss a variety of items, including comparisons between animal and vegetable sources of proteins, different types of protein uses and needs, and the need for them in the diet. They find that animal sources are nearly always complete proteins, meaning they contain all essential amino acids, while vegetable sources are nearly always incomplete proteins, missing one or more essential proteins and carrying them in reduced quantities compared to meat.

[Anonymous No.14143790]

>>14143617
You forgot to mention that a diet rich in omega 6 acids (most seeds and their oils are omega 6 dominant) cuts the conversion rate almost in half, and the ability to convert carotenes is dictated by specific genes, meaning some people are unable to do it in a sufficent rate. For optimal absorption carotene must also be ingested with fat, which vegans frequently fear and remove from (die)t

[Anonymous No.14143817]

>>14143790
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11083485
(2000) Lee et al. compare omnivore and vegetarian serum fatty acid levels and lipid profiles.
Their analysis reveals that the vegetarian diet contains adverse effects in terms of fats, cholesterol, their lipid profiles, and their results. Vegetarians tend to have far too little EPA and DHA alongside a far too high linoleic acid level. This means that; A) the health of those people will be worse than their omnivorous counterparts, and; B) their children will not develop properly if they are reared with this diet.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9637947
(1998) Gerster attempts to determine whether or not adults can adequately convert alpha-linoleic acid (ALA; 18:3n-3) to eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA; 20:5n-3) and docasahexaenoic acid (DHA; 22:6n-3).
He finds that, no, humans do not convert ALA enough to meet their EPA and DHA needs -; specifically, while ALA conversion can be sufficient towards EPA, it is woefully insufficient with regards to DHA. This means that individuals whom do not consume complete sources of these fats will likely not see them in their diet and will; A) miss out on their positive effects, and; B) suffer negative effects as a result.
Vegetarians are profoundly inadequate in DHA and EPA.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/2/327.full.pdf+html
(2005) Rosell et al. show that compared to meat-eaters, vegans have 53% lower levels of EPA and 59% lower levels of DHA on average. These are the two most important fats for neural development.

[Anonymous No.14143826]

>>14143817
(2009) Brenna et al. shows that plant-based ALA does not convert to DHA or EPA very efficiently. This means that vegans will nearly inexorably end up with too low a level of DHA and EPA.
“The majority of evidence from isotopic tracer studies show that the conversion of ALA to DHA is of the order of 1% in infants, and considerably lower in adults”
The fat of plants is insufficient. The diet of plants alone is woefully insufficient without an extensive and likely costly regimen of constant supplementation.

[Anonymous No.14143849]

>>14143826
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18305382
(2008) Kornsteiner, Singer & Elmadfa find that vegetarians and vegans tend to have very low n-3 long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acid (omega-3) status, ie, they tend to have too low a level of omega-3 fats as a result of their diet.
Vegetarians and vegans tend to be deficient in their protein intake anyway but they also have an n-6/n-3 ratio of 10/1 — worse than the average American.

[Anonymous No.14143858]

>>14143849
https://www.ernaehrungs-umschau.de/fileadmin/Ernaehrungs-Umschau/pdfs/pdf_2016/04_16/EU04_2016_Special_DGE_eng_final.pdf
(2016) Richter et al. show that vegans tend to be deficient in protein, especially indispensable amino acids, long-chain n-3 fatty acids, other vitamins (riboflavin, vitamin D) and minerals (calcium, iron, iodine, zinc and selenium), and do not recommend a vegan diet for pregnant or lactating women, or infants, children, or adolescents.

[Anonymous No.14144194]

Bump

[Anonymous No.14144232]

>>14142923
Now make a thread about the carnivore diet retards who are just as insufferable

[Anonymous No.14144321]

carnivore diet is backed by science and logic.
vegan diet is a moralistic position, the proponents of veganism CARE ABOUT ANIMALS FIRST, and your health second. THEY ARE MOTIVATED TO LIE TO YOU ABOUT NUTRITION in order to save animals.
start the carnivore diet today. the vegan diet is generally very carb heavy, which is why they are so tired, stupid, and effeminate generally. they have no clue about proper nutrition.

[Anonymous No.14144327]

>>14144232
so the diet that WAS mainstream for 99.9% of human history (until a cheaper but less healthy option was found) is insufferable why exactly? because you like to eat pizza? gtfo lol

[Anonymous No.14144369]

>>14144321
the most retarded part of veganism is that vegans eat fruit and vegetables that didn't even exist in their current forms until extremely recently (on the scale of 1000s of years). they think modern fruit is "healthy" even though it is bred to contain an insane amount of sugars
you can't even reason with those people, they have internalized mainstream ideas about what is healthy to eat and combined it with their moralistic position on animal products.

[Anonymous No.14144557]

>>14143560
Actually gorillas also don't have that. They eat their own shit and to digest food twice to get the nutrients from plants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0xbia1m4LA

[Anonymous No.14144597]

>>14143259
Misery loves company

[Anonymous No.14144739]

>>14142996
>Oh, and B12 vitamins (even the pills) are derived from animal products. It is literally impossible to be truely vegan and be healthy
LEL

[Anonymous No.14144792]

>>14143259
>if they hate food and cooking?

I think you hate food and cooking if you eat McDonalds and Cheetos.

[Anonymous No.14144922]

>>14143849
Veganism made me younger

[Anonymous No.14145207]

Bump

[Anonymous No.14145213]

oversocialized bleeding heart retards that made diet a part of their identity

[Anonymous No.14145223]

>>14142923
how do i impress a vegan chick?
i have seen what she eats, those dry as shit nasty looking vegie burgers, whats the most delicious vegan meal i can make at home?

[Anonymous No.14145227]

>>14142923
> force their beliefs on others
What does that even mean?

[Anonymous No.14145230]

>>14143817
imagine supporting the ncr when they are being lead by ghouls

[Anonymous No.14145241]

>>14143042
>vegans can’t eat yeast because it’s alive
Explain how that's wrong. Isn't it hypocritical to boycott meat because you claim you don't want to kill living creatures, then kill other living creatures instead? Keep in mind that plants have been proven to feel pain and experience emotion.

[Anonymous No.14145259]

>>14142923
When have any of these applied to omnivores (save for eating garbage food, but that applies to everyone)?

[Anonymous No.14145262]

>>14145241
To be fair, plants are living creatures. Yeast isn't part of the animal kingdom though, which is what vegans avoid.
> Keep in mind that plants have been proven to feel pain and experience emotion.
You have to dramatically alter the definitions of those things to say something like that though.

[Anonymous No.14145291]

>>14145262
>You have to dramatically alter the definitions of those things to say something like that though.
Science changes definitions all the time. The more we learn about the universe the more we have to change how we perceive it.

[Anonymous No.14145313]

>>14145291
Sure, but what definition of "pain" and "emotions" are you using? Surely not the same definition as used in the context of animals that have a central nervous system.

[Anonymous No.14145374]

>>14144369
First part of your post isn't really an argument because the livestock you're eating didn't exist the way it is now a thousand years a go either.

[Anonymous No.14145380]

>>14144369
>they think modern fruit is "healthy" even though it is bred to contain an insane amount of sugars
They think modern fruit is healthy because absolutely all research ever done on the health effects of fruit show that fruit is healthy

[Anonymous No.14145437]

>>14145313
Flora and Fungi have nervous systems. They work a bit different than fauna, but the end result is the same.

[Anonymous No.14145476]

>>14145437
They don't have central nervous systems. Imagine a human who's braindead. The body will still work, if they get cut the body will heal, nails and hair will still grow, etc, but there's no pain, no consciousness, no experience. That's basically a plant. The extent of what you're talking about is the ability to detect damage, and the repair process associated with it. Grass doesn't get "sad" when we mow it.

[Anonymous No.14145554]

>>14145476
>Grass doesn't get "sad" when we mow it.
You don't know that, you're just assuming it because you can't perceive it.

[Anonymous No.14145560]

>>14145554
Do you have any evidence to offer?

[Anonymous No.14145645]

>>14145560
>https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants
>https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/botany/plants-feel-pain.htm
There really isn't enough evidence to be conclusive because most people are quick to dismiss the idea outright, so not very many studies have been done. I am simply suggesting that you should not be so quick to assume you have things figured out. Humanity has not discover a fraction of a fraction of 1% of the knowledge that the universe has to offer, yet we like to act like we know it all. Don't be so quick to dismiss new ideas simply because they make you uncomfortable, and remember that even "experts" can be wrong.

[Anonymous No.14145680]

>>14145645
What they describe sounds like, as I said, a braindead person. The human body reacts to certain stimuli even without brain function, but the brain is where consciousness comes from and what allows for complex emotion and suffering.
>I am simply suggesting that you should not be so quick to assume you have things figured out.
I'm very much open to the idea of figuring out plant intelligence if the science holds up, but at the same time, what are YOU doing with the knowledge? Do you care more for plants now? Do you care less for animals? Do you see stepping on grass as similar to stepping on a cat's tail?

[Anonymous No.14145690]

>>14145437
What the fuck are you on

[Anonymous No.14145793]

>>14145380
it's literally chock full of sugar. all quote unquote "research" also says you need fiber in your diet and carbs are good for you and other stupid crap. fake!
still healthier than the average western diet though, for sure

>>14145374
true, but the actual MEAT is the same. the nutrition hasn't changed in the way it has for fruit and vegetables

[Anonymous No.14145797]

>>14145213
there's nothing more pathetic than oversocialized high-ethic-preference yet weak people trying to exert social pressures on others

[Anonymous No.14145803]

>>14145793
also i would be interested to see research into the nutritional value of meat now vs. pre agricultural revolution, for example. but it probably doesn't exist. i don't see a mechanism by which meat itself can change as it's a fixed cell structure, but then again so is a banana. but there's no doubt bananas are bigger and sweeter now than ever before, but i don't know if the same can be said for meat

[Anonymous No.14145806]

>>14145793
>it's literally chock full of sugar
Do you think sugar is bad just because "it's sugar"? Certain factors can make sugar unhealthy, and in the context of fruit those factors mostly don't apply.
>all quote unquote "research" also says you need fiber in your diet and carbs are good for you and other stupid crap. fake!
You're relying on intuition then?

[Anonymous No.14145809]

>>14145690
i dunno what that dude is on about
they do send signals in respond to stimuli, theres were some studies that showed "trees can hurt" but its not the way we do, or at least theres no way to know wht its like and if they register it as pain
its just an alarm that responds to danger, which i guess is all pain is really

[Anonymous No.14145811]

>>14145793
>>14145803
>there's no doubt bananas are bigger and sweeter now than ever before, but i don't know if the same can be said for meat
animals raised for meat are bigger and fattier than before

[Anonymous No.14145828]

>>14145806
>Do you think sugar is bad just because "it's sugar"?
carbs are not food
>and in the context of fruit those factors mostly don't apply
complete bullshit. if that was true diabetics wouldn't have to avoid the sweeter fruits. sugar is sugar. get out of denial

>You're relying on intuition then?
personal experience. zero fiber in my diet: literally zero negative consequences. zero carbs: positive benefits which at first i thought were so strong they must be placebo, but placebo doesn't last months
what are you suggesting, that intuition is inferior to "research"? do you also believe that all vaccines are good for you and that you need to wear a mask when you go outside otherwise you might catch the flu? pretty sure the CIA published some research recently showing people who use this website are incel terrorists. guess research has trumped reality then

>>14145811
yes but the NUTRITIONAL CONTENT of the MEAT has not changed. the meat is not sweeter in the way a banana is now as opposed to 5000 years ago. more fat might be true, but i don't consider that as big of an issue as so called "health foods" with insane sugar doses

[Anonymous No.14145834]

>>14145828
also for anyone claiming fruit sugar is somehow magic sugar that has no negative consequences for your health: go drink a liter of orange juice a day.

[Anonymous No.14145837]

>>14145828
>carbs are not food
Not an answer
>complete bullshit. if that was true diabetics wouldn't have to avoid the sweeter fruits
They don't.
>personal experience
So nothing.
>yes but the NUTRITIONAL CONTENT of the MEAT has not changed
It's exactly the same as a fruit getting sweeter, except where the fruit has fiber and phytochemicals that make the sugar harmless, extra fatty meat is just more unhealthy.

[Anonymous No.14145841]

>>14145834
So now you're not talking about fruit, but a processed product where the sugar is concentrated. You've lost the plot, my friend.

[Anonymous No.14145851]

>>14145837
>Not an answer
Wrong
>They don't
they do, unless they take insulin. meaning the sugar in fruit can trigger diabetic symptoms
>So nothing
UMM, dO YoU hAvE ReSeArCh PrOvInG tHaT?
don't you have an episode of rick and morty to be watching? lol i'm so glad the opinions of doctors, "scientists" and other lying do-good faggots doesn't affect me
>except where the fruit has fiber and phytochemicals that make the sugar harmless
*except where fruit has a bunch of bullshit that isn't actual food and you don't need to put in your body
>extra fatty meat is just more unhealthy
possibly if you eat a lot in a normal diet, but since i only eat animal products my body burns the fat immediately for fuel

[Anonymous No.14145854]

>>14145841
go fucking squeeze the oranges yourself then dumb fuck. or eat a dozen oranges, your magic sugar will still fuck you up either way retard.

[Anonymous No.14145885]

>>14145851
>Wrong
No, "carbs aren't food" is not a proper response to "do you think sugar is bad just because it's sugar?"

Before we go further, let me press that point first. What specifically do you think makes sugar bad, and does any research suggest that whole fruits have the same consequences as refined sugar? I see this a lot with people who aren't familiar with the scientific side of nutrition. You have to realize that, while yes, refined sugar is unhealthy, it's unhealthy for actual reasons, not just "sugar's unhealthy because sugar's unhealthy." The things that make sugar unhealthy in isolation don't necessarily apply to sugar in in the form of fruit. You can understand that much, yes?

[Anonymous No.14145899]

you forgot
>forcing your carnivorious pet to eat vegan
Completely abusive and unhealthy. Not quite as abusive as stunting a childs growth and health though.

[Anonymous No.14145946]

>>14145834
>for decades now scientists have been saying fruit is healthy but fruit juices are not
>h-hurr, just do the thing you’ve been saying is unhealthy and see if you’ll be healthy!
Absolute retard.

[Anonymous No.14146238]

Bump

[Anonymous No.14146255]

Why are overweight redditors so rabid about vegans? Did mommy make you eat vegetables last night and it traumatized you? Just go back to stuffing yourself with kike-approved factory tendies instead of trying to argue that yeast has feelings

[Anonymous No.14146316]

>>14146255
I dont even have the money to go vegan. I was once a vegan as a teen but desu I didnt know what I was doing and eating beans every day was depressing and incredibly unsatisfying (I managed to do it for over a year until I got fed up with it). Back then, my family didnt have much money either and was around 5k above poverty level. Which sounds decent but the mortgage really gouged out all that money. Literally the only realistic thing I can even do is vegetarianism. Which has been on my mind for a while but I have no idea where to start.

[Anonymous No.14146733]

>>14142923
And there wasn't a single omnivore in the thread even 1/10th as healthy as vegan athlete Frank Medrano.

[Anonymous No.14147726]

Animals dying as a byproduct of agriculture isn't the same as directly killing them for food. Whats your alternative? Just let humanity die off?

[Anonymous No.14147740]

>>14146733
>switched to veganism AFTER building a good body on meat
Every time.

[Anonymous No.14147775]

>>14146255
Yeah that's pretty much it for them, I wouldnt say its mommy but someone probably told them not to eat so many animals and went on a week long rant

[Anonymous No.14147969]

>>14147726
OP is on the side of vegans

[Anonymous No.14148047]

>>14147969
Omg I reread OP again. He was insulting omnivores not vegans I got confused since people tend to insult veganism.

Yeah its true. I almost got diabetes from a meat only diet my parents fed me

[Anonymous No.14148985]

>>14147740
>Let me fantasize something about this vegan guy that isn't true so I can be more comfortable with not only being wrong but living in a fantasy world all together entirely.

[Anonymous No.14148993]

>>14146255
Low testosterone + Depression + Jacking off a lot = High estrogen cry babies that attack anything they don't understand/like. Especially if it's the solution to they're miserable life improving but requires commitment/effort.

[Anonymous No.14149041]

Like clockwork, the MUH PROTEIN argument shows its stupid face.
>lentils
>garbanzo beans
>crackling
>tempeh
>quinoa
>peanut butter
All vegan option which can be prepared in a variety of ways, with sufficient protein.

[Anonymous No.14149084]

>>14149041
http://www.jssm.org/vol3/n3/2/v3n3-2pdf.pdf
(2004) Hoffman & Falvo discuss protein, specifically asking "which is best?"
They discuss a variety of items, including comparisons between animal and vegetable sources of proteins, different types of protein uses and needs, and the need for them in the diet. They find that animal sources are nearly always complete proteins, meaning they contain all essential amino acids, while vegetable sources are nearly always incomplete proteins, missing one or more essential proteins and carrying them in reduced quantities compared to meat.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/138/10/2021S.full
(2008) Barbul discusses proline (a protein found in meats but less so in vegetables) and it's necessity for collagen synthesis. If this protein is not had or is not had in adequate amounts a person may have a precocious senescence, wrinkles, and worsened bone quality.
The primary vegan-appropriate sources for proline like peanuts, mustard, gluten, soy and so on, tend to also cause histaminergic reactions and lead to inflammation.

http://aminoacidinformation.com/high-lysine-foods-list/
Vegans and vegetarians tend to have lysine deficiencies.
The primary vegan-approved sources for lysine are legumes, quinoa, seitan (gluten) and pistachos. Legumes, quinoa, and gluten all tend to lead to inflammation, contain items like saponins, lectins, phytic acid, aflotoxins, phytoestrogens, trypsin inhibitors, poly-unsaturated fatty-acids, n-6, and much more that leads to irritability and reduced well-being in addition to being both unsavoury and unhealthy in general.
Additionally, none of these sources of lysine are complete proteins themselves and would require additional eating in order to compensate. These are very often processed and thus high in sodium as well.

[Anonymous No.14149100]

>>14149084
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/17657359
(2007) Lord et al. show that greater animal protein intake is associated with muscle mass preservation in old age. Vegetable protein is not associated.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10584048
(1999) Campbell et al. compared resistance training (RT) while using a normal omnivorous diet to the lactoovovegetarian (LOV) diet and found that: "Consumption of a meat-containing diet contributed to greater gains in fat-free mass and skeletal muscle mass with RT than did an LOV diet."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19678968
(2009) Aubertin-Leheudre & Adlercreutz compare a normal omnivorous diet to a vegetarian diet and found that: "Finally, animal protein intake was the independent predictor of muscle mass index. Thus, a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower muscle mass index than is an omnivorous diet at the same protein intake. A good indicator of muscle mass index in women seems to be animal protein intake."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3046316
(1988) Acosta remarks on the availability of essential amino acids and nitrogen in vegan diets.
"Vegan children often fail to grow as well as their omnivorous cohorts despite protein intakes that exceed RDA. Explanations for inadequate growth include deficiencies of energy, calcium, zinc and vitamins B-12 and D. Due to decreased bioavailability, amino acids and nitrogen in vegan diets may be inadequate to support normal growth. Bioavailability of amino acids and nitrogen may be decreased by dietary fiber, food processing and storage, inadequate energy, and other unknown factors."
The decreased bioavailability of essential aminos acids due to factors unrelated to their intake is a marked deleterious side-effect of typical veganism without heavy supplementation.

[Anonymous No.14149122]

>>14149084
>copypasted confirmation bias
yawn

[Anonymous No.14149287]

What irritates me about vegans is how complex it is, like take >>14143108 for example, I'm not going to look up if watercress is actually a good source of vitamin B because even if it was it's a single source, it's also a relatively uncommon sight in supermarkets. Because veganism takes specialist knowledge and techniques and because many of the required items are relatively uncommon, expensive or difficult to prepare veganism is essentially a privilege, you'd have to be middle class to even attempt it and remain in good health. Sure, you can eat like a poor Indian person living in a metal shack but you're going to get unhealthy and skinny...like a poor Indian person living in a metal shack.

The average person will just lose most of their body fat and develop a mild vitamin B deficiency that causes depression and erratic behavior. And what do you see when you look at people who call themselves vegan? They're disgustingly thin and tend to be depressed or behave erratically. The healthier ones all cheat and the real stickler ones tend to get the sickest.

>>14143009
My aunt went to some vegan cleanse retreat in LA, all scientific sounding and shit, cost 2 grand and was supposed to last a week. After 3 days she was taken to the ER with extremely low blood sodium. She needed an MRI to check for brain damage.

>>14143259
It's about cultural deprogramming and establishing control, if they can control something as basic as what you eat and how you think about food they can eventually make inroads to shaping your other politics. For example if you can't abide the suffering of an animal to feed you, can you abide the suffering of those below you for political power? How can you sit there being rich while the Indian guy from my earlier example sits in his metal shack? So really, they're not vegans, they're communists and whatever aspect of western culture they can tear out and replace, they will. You know kinda like when they did it with video games they don't even play?

[Anonymous No.14149313]

>>14149122
http://jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49.full
(1997) Volek et al. discuss the role of dietary nutrients and resistance exercise in an individual's levels of testosterone and cortisol.
They find that saturated fats, which vegetarians and vegans tend to avoid, are a significant predictor of greater testosterone levels, failing to fulfill their role as the dietary bogeyman they're so often characterised as.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1435181/
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/42/1/127/4691587
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/159772/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2526906/
(Raben et al. 1992; Howie & Shultz, 1985; Hill & Wynder, 1979; Bélanger, 1989) all find that vegetarians and vegans have much lower testosterone levels than meat-eaters.
Thus, the vegan and vegetarian diet does not have many benefits, especially for men. The inflammation benefits do not arise unless protein levels are insufficient due to restriction or unless extreme levels of supplementation are had. In-fact, this diet is only feasible — not expedient — with extensive supplementation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753065
(2011) Stephens et al. show that vegetarians have reduced skeletal muscle carnitine transport capacity and levels. This coincides with their low average testosterone and strength levels.

[Anonymous No.14149325]

>>14149041
>crackling
do you mean like PORK crackling?

[Anonymous No.14149493]

>>14148993
Or maybe most people simply dont have the money? If someone can give me a vegetarian guide I'd do it. But I'm not going back to a nutrient defecient vegan ever again. That just made me depressed and angry.

[Anonymous No.14149505]

>>14149313
>just have to eat more protien heavy veggies than normal
>difficult

[Anonymous No.14149726]

>>14143763
All this clear indications of how deficient, unhealthy and unnatural the vegan diet is, and instead of admitting the truth, vegans create pro-vegan propaganda and lies promoting their Auschwitz diet club.

Oh well they pay for it one way or another lol.

[Anonymous No.14149754]

>>14144922
Working wonders for the German vegan "Vegains" as well ( if he's still alive that is, not really sure.)

[Anonymous No.14149774]

>>14147726
Either you kill animals for your food or you don't, which is it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovGHKr-NoqQ

[Anonymous No.14149824]

>>14149774
No, they die in the process by accident. Have you never stepped on an insect before in the grass without knowing? Countless. Its the same concept, but scaled up with industrialization. Nobody would fault you for it either.

[Anonymous No.14149835]

>>14145946
>for decades scientists have been lying about a whole bunch of shit
your point?
>>14145885
carbs aren't food. also i don't care about the "science" seeing as it's made up bullshit to push the agricultural diet. oh, the healthiest diet also happens to be the one that's cheapest to produce en masse? wow, what a (((coincidence)))! nope. i don't care about what ANY doctor, nutritionist or scientist with "research" into the benefits of eating soy has to say. shove the food pyramid up your ass

[Anonymous No.14149858]

>>14146255
because it's a moral position, not a nutritional one. vegans start from their conclusion (eating animals is bad) and then use it to work backwards to a false presumption (the vegan diet is healthier than a regular diet)

>>14148993
funny considering the vegan diet is the most high xenoestrogen low test diet imaginable. pass the soy nigger

>>14149505
>just have to eat carbs which aren't food and fuck with your entire body to uphold your imaginary OverSocialized moralization
good idea

[Anonymous No.14149875]

>>14142996
>>14142973
It takes at least 5 years of veganism before B12 deficiencies develop. It's true, vegans mostly get their B12 from fortified staple foods like bread and cereal along with the other added vitamins and minerals. The US public health system is so benevolent, it enables this psychosis.
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/#h6

[Anonymous No.14149894]

>>14149875
what i want to know is how do vegans get enough vitamin d. do they all live in commiefornia and sunbathe all day? there are so many problems with the vegan "diet" that make it laughable. IF YOU HAVE TO TAKE SUPPLEMENTS, YOUR DIET IS FAKE!

[Anonymous No.14149898]

>>14143108
It's a good source of vitamin C and A, V8 is great for that but unsurprisingly it does not contain B12.

[Anonymous No.14149944]

>>14149325
It's pork flavored. They're not real pork.

[Anonymous No.14150125]

>>14149824
You are a vegan liar, and your hands are dripping with blood. When a farmer uses your money that you have him, to buy guns and bullets to shoot down deer, rabbits, and kills other animals with other methods, deliberately, (poisoning, trapping, gassing, etc) this is no accident whatever.

If you eat bread, vegetables, or fruits you kill animals for your food, end of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfuoAgn-DQ

[Anonymous No.14150150]

>>14149894
No vegans get vitamin D. Cholesterol is necessary for the vitamin D process to make it from the sunlight. Vegans don't get any dietary cholesterol.

(Sorry for the simplified explanation)

White Vegans are pale
ghosts who hide from the sun. Vitamin D and vitamin A deficient, for starters.

[Anonymous No.14150212]

>>14150150
You're not quite correct. Vitamin D can be made from cholesterol de novo and like other steroids. It is essential for metabolizing calcium, magnesium, and phosphate mostly. So long as you get enough UV radiation and your liver and kidneys are functional, you can synthesize vitamin D.

The body also produces about half its own cholesterol de novo so dietary sources aren't necessary.

[Anonymous No.14150369]

>>14150150
looks like a vampire

[Anonymous No.14150462]

>>14150369
IDK if she's even vegan, but sure looks vegan, and she's a SDA LA county "health" director.

"Probably a vegan" and a blood sucking vampire.

[Anonymous No.14150547]

>>14142923
Every anti vegan argument comes off as a meat industry shill but everyone complaining about meat eaters comes off as honest and geniune, I wonder why this? Obvious answers because vegans dont abuse animals like meat eaters do and vegans can't make money off of it

[Anonymous No.14150581]

>>14149313
>>14149100
>>14149084
Have you actually read these studies, understand them, and would be able to defend them if challenged?

[Anonymous No.14150584]

>>14150581
He's a meat industry shill wanting to make money, just ignore him

[Anonymous No.14150760]

>>14150547
You're trying too hard

[Anonymous No.14150951]

>>14150547
>because it's a moral position, not a nutritional one. vegans start from their conclusion (eating animals is bad) and then use it to work backwards to a false presumption (the vegan diet is healthier than a regular diet)

[Anonymous No.14150958]

>>14150581
>OH YEAH WELL WHERE'S YOUR PROOF. SOURCE? SOURCE? DO YOU HAVE A SOURCE
>proof is posted
>CAN YOU EVEN DEFEND THIS SOURCE? DID YOU EVEN READ IT?
nigger!

[Anonymous No.14151001]

Meatfags are so creepy it's like those incels trying to convince you that age is just a number, they use the same arguments and debate tactics...probably the same individuals desu

[Anonymous No.14151048]

is the guy in this thread literally schizophrenic?

[Anonymous No.14151064]

>>14150958
Answer the question. If I challenged you, could you defend it? If you think you can, I will. If I can show even one of those studies is flawed and doesn't support what you're using it for, you can never post in nutrition related matters on this board again. Deal?

[Anonymous No.14151083]

>>14151064
Some plants are smarter than vegans

[Anonymous No.14151089]

>>14151083
guess that's a no on all counts

[Anonymous No.14151175]

>>14151083
A tale as old as time. Guy with a strong opinion admittedly doesn't even know what he's saying. We'll leave it at that then. See you next time.

[Anonymous No.14151305]

>>14145828
>zero fiber diet
unironically based

[Anonymous No.14151332]

>>14151048
vegetables did it

[Anonymous No.14151336]

>>14151305
it just works. fiber is only necessary if you have carb intake: neither are food.

[Anonymous No.14151340]

>>14151336
seriously a beacon of nutritional knowledge

[Anonymous No.14151373]

>>14151336
Fiber would seem even more important on a low carb diet since it helps lower cholesterol and prevent the cytotoxic effects of meat metabolites in the gut

[Anonymous No.14151546]

>>14149824
Your parents might have had you by accident, its the same concept, but scaled up. Nobody would fault them for it either

[Anonymous No.14151557]

>>14149774
Can’t tell if the video is supposed to be a parody of something.

[Anonymous No.14151561]

>>14151373
BS. More cholesterol is always better.

[Anonymous No.14151569]

Genesis 1:29

Most people are retarded when it comes to diet, including vegans, so you can't really expect them to know most soil isn't as nutrient rich as it used to be or what supplements you need to take. If they do take supplements, they usually get the cheap low-dose lead-filled crap from China because it's cheaper and they think it's all the same since the FDA allows it.

[Anonymous No.14151572]

>>14151561

[Anonymous No.14151580]

>>14151561
Burger, I...

[Anonymous No.14151598]

>>14151569
Nah, the soil in commercial farming is now fertilized and if anything has more nutrients in it than what it used to have. Plants today are less nutrient dense by like 20% compared to what they used to be because they grow faster due to the high CO2 levels in the atmosphere, but if you pay attention to what you eat you should easily meet your nutrient needs anyway.

[Anonymous No.14151644]

>>14151175

[Anonymous No.14151662]

>>14151580
lol Americans fall for the cholesterol bad meme which is why they are so unhealthy.

[Anonymous No.14151666]

>>14151644

[Anonymous No.14151674]

>>14142923

WOAH WOAH WOAH tell me you didn't just post this on your computer before running into your human sized hamster wheel to generate the electricity to run your pc while sitting on your sack of hemp and hemp clothing

FUCK ME YOU'RE THE WORST HUMAN BEAN ALIVE, CANT BELIEVE YOU LET ANIMALS SUFFER LIKE THIS, I FUCKING HATE YOU

[Anonymous No.14151675]

>>14151557
Vegans always laugh at the deaths of the animals they kill...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6CX0TzJ7O4

That's because "animal activism" is just a silly false front for what is a Anorexia cult, Veganism.

[Anonymous No.14151689]

>>14151666
Note: what your chart is not showing is that the study you're quoting also looked at vegans and found that they have an average iq of 95

[Anonymous No.14151723]

>>14149835
most of the world subsists on bread or rice as the main thing in their diet. "carbs aren't food" is idiotic

[Anonymous No.14152626]

>>14142996
Why even argue with meatcucks who can’t be bothered to look anything up

[Anonymous No.14152819]

>>14151689
>n = 9

[Anonymous No.14152846]

>>14152819
n=1 is enough for a meatcuck

[Anonymous No.14152858]

>>14152819
That's both n = 9 and in the 1970s when nobody even knew what a vegan was

[Anonymous No.14152864]

>>14151689
i didn't know niggers are vegetarians

[Anonymous No.14152873]

>>14149835
>I dont care about your 'logic' or 'science' I want to be as eomotionally driven as the vegans

[Anonymous No.14152880]

>>14151546
This but unironically. Most people have kids on accident because they ended up pregnant. The same accident can be forgiven in plant agriculture :)

[Anonymous No.14152884]

>>14152819
>suddenly doesn't like his own study anymore

[Anonymous No.14153416]

>>14152884
Or at least not the bit that wasn't the focus of the paper and that the authors warn against taking seriously due to the lack of a sufficient sample size, which wasn't a problem for the vegetarian sample at large.

I didn't post the study though and wouldn't ever cite it myself, but I also wouldn't cite the "incidence of depressive disorders" (which also, ironically, correlates with IQ) study you did

[Anonymous No.14153462]

>>14153416

[Anonymous No.14153552]

>>14153462
Source on this one? Googling Sobiecki et al 2016 leads to this
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27101764/
>nutrient estimates based on one-time food questionairres
>Nutrient intakes were estimated including fortification in foods, but excluding dietary supplements.
> Meat eaters had the highest energy intakes, followed by fish eaters and vegetarians, whereas vegans had the lowest intakes.
>Vegans had the highest intakes of polyunsaturated fatty acids, dietary fiber, vitamins C and E, folate, magnesium, iron, and copper.
>Meat eaters had the highest intake of saturated fatty acids, protein, vitamin B2, vitamin B12, vitamin D, zinc, and iodine.
Meaning basically that meat eaters are fat fucks with high cholesterol and vegans get more of the nutrients that meat eaters tend to be deficient in

[Anonymous No.14153582]

>>14153552
>purposely ignores bioavailability because it fits the vegan agenda
no surprise

[Anonymous No.14153624]

>>14153582
Wow, there have only been 97 centenarians in the world? TIL.

[Anonymous No.14153685]

>>14153582
So you don't have the source to the graph you posted?

[Anonymous No.14154571]

Bump

[Anonymous No.14154918]

>>14151373
>cholesterol is bad
ahhh a fellow science follower :3 i too watch rick and morty and know fluoride and vaccines are good for you. sex? thats GROSS dude... i prefer to play videogames myself

[Anonymous No.14154935]

>>14154918
oh we need the world to go vegan due to population because it's a cheaper diet to produce (even cheaper than the already garbage modern carb based diet)?
let's le put some science on it! *churns out a bunch of bogus studies showing health benefits of veganism that don't even make logical sense while babies die*
*study showing 5g actually makes you healthier*
*study showing eating bugs 5 times a week improves iq*
side note, have you seen how desperately people defend 5g, like average people on the street.. you would think they are fucking key stakeholders in the technology who stand to make billions. baffling

[Anonymous No.14154994]

>>14142923
>even indoctrinating their kids at birth
explain then why children need to be made to eat their vegetables where as they tend to eat meat with no fussing?

[Anonymous No.14155139]

Just some questions for an outsider who knows nothing and has a vegan girlfriend.

How many vegans get cancer, strokes, and blood clots compared to meat eaters.
And how many diseases can come from eating plants
And how many can come from eating meat.

Just trying to weigh the pro's and cons on what way I should go.
I've never been in control of my own diet until now

[Anonymous No.14155146]

>>14155139
It cured my diabetes, my doctor said I was close to it but then they said the risk went away

[Anonymous No.14155242]

>>14142923
People who say that eating or using animals is inherently unethical are wrong. People who say it's ok to eat animals as long as they are treated well, and then completely ignore whether that was actually the case for what they eat, are also in the wrong. Most people would be better off if they could admit to themselves that they are not perfect. Then they wouldn't have to rationalize eating meat and could take a more logical approach to minimizing suffering.

https://reducing-suffering.org/vegetarianism-and-wild-animals/ is a good starting point.

[Anonymous No.14155244]

>>14143560
If they just counted eggs as a fruit, they could salvage the entire diet.

[Anonymous No.14156525]

>>14155139
Iirc vegans have a higher risk of stroke but lower risk of heart disease and cancer + live longer in general.

[Anonymous No.14156554]

>>14155139
Every lifelong vegan I've met died of colon cancer in their 50's

[Anonymous No.14156595]

>>14156554
big if true

[Anonymous No.14156891]

>>14151064
>even one study is flawed
What kind of standart is this? If 9/10 studies are okay, they will remain so even if 1/10 of studies is flawed.
Eat a sausage, so your brain has some energy.

[Anonymous No.14156915]

>>14156891
If one study is so badly misinterpreted, it shows that the poster didn't bother to read or understand the studies they posted, at which point the gish gallop can be disregarded in its entirety and the poster can instead make an actual argument by posting one study at a time of something they have a concrete understanding of and therefore can discuss. Don't do that "here's 10 random links I hastily googled, now YOU have to read shit I didn't even bother to read myself and take the time to not only explain the fundamentals of the science I'm invoking but also cite several other studies of your own related to each link I posted that put it into context so you can begin to debunk the premise I tagged onto it" shit

[Anonymous No.14156932]

Meat just tastes good and morality is only for other sapient beings.

[Anonymous No.14156967]

>>14156915
You'd never ask for this precision in studies supporting your position, vegan hypocrite.

You construct malice where a simple mistake serves as an explanation. The point still remains. One flawed study is not enough to disregard the whole posts. Especially with how easy it is to pull apart studies.
You announcing that all or none of the studies have to measure up to your standards shows how disingenious you are. Go fuck yourself. You can't pull of intelligence convincingly enough.

[Anonymous No.14156995]

>>14156915
>science denier

[Anonymous No.14157808]

>>14142996
No from what I gather supplemental B-12 (cyanocobalamin or methylcobalamin) is derived from cobalt which is mined by Congolese child slaves who commonly suffer and die in the mines.
But I guess most of yall are racist assholes anyways who commonly put africans on the same level as animals.

[Anonymous No.14157827]

>>14142923
I agree, OP, vegans are evil.

[Anonymous No.14157849]

>>14157808
Meerkat with a hat

[Anonymous No.14157863]

>>14149824
Hi, I live on a farm and talk to farmers almost daily (You'd be surprised how much information you get from people when you are polite and treat them like the hard working human beings that they are) Nobody "accidentally" spends inordinate amounts of money and sprays pesticides. It's not an accident like stepping on an insect. It's literally taking a several thousand acre piece of Earth and killing EVERYTHING on it down to the bacteria. The most commonly used pesticide in industrial ag in the United States is Roundup. Made by Monsanto, the same company that created Agent Orange.

Please stop justifying your contribution to the literal destruction of all life on this precious planet of ours by calling it an "accident".

If you really want to contribute to the least amount of suffering and environmental destruction you will produce your own food by your own moral standards. I suggest looking into regenerate agriculture

Thank you and have a nice day.

[Anonymous No.14157988]

>>14157863
>half of the world’s crops go to animal consumption
>most of those crops are either suitable for human consumption or grow on land that could easily support crops meant for human consumption
>the crops fed to animals are not as heavily regulated as the ones meant for human consumptions and thus worse for for the environment
>77% of all farmland is used to support farm animals
>pasture feeding is so inefficient we don’t have enough space on Earth to meet the current demand for meat if it were all produced this way
>raising animals through pasture produces more greenhouse gasses than factory farming
>there’s no more space for either pasture or raising crops for animal consumption which is why the rainforests are being cleared to make more space
>all of that effort and resources and animal products still provide only 18% of the calories consumed by humans around the world
If only there were a way of obtaining food that’s both more efficient and less harmful to the environment. Hmmm

[Anonymous No.14157991]

>>14156995
All self-reported food-related studies are absolute garbage and not worth the electrons they're stored with.

[Anonymous No.14157997]

>>14156967
u mad?

[Anonymous No.14158014]

>>14143560
>natural
Who cares what is natural?

Nature is a horrible shitshow which should be mostly eradicated and/or transformed into something less horrific.

[Anonymous No.14158027]

>>14157988
Real redpill? There isn't. The lands that are useful for farming have been farmed for centuries and sometimes millennia already. You can't just close down a pasture and grow crops there. In many cases, you can't even go feed crops for animals at the same efficiency as just letting animals eat what grows there anyway.
But if you did away with all meat production...what then? You'd run into shortages in lots of different fields. Bones, skin, teeth, fur, hair, blood, everything of an animal is useful somehow.

[Anonymous No.14158060]

>>14151336
Just eat bones and fur for roughage like a dog.

[Anonymous No.14158066]

>>14158027
Pasture is almost always arable land. Just not always flat. If land can grow grass fast, then it can grow anything fast.

Very low productivity land like rangeland not so much, but that's not pasture. Also breaking open the nutrient cycle for rangeland is slowly destroying it (they call it "overgrazing", but ultimately it's all overgrazed).

[Anonymous No.14158080]

>>14158027
There literally is, you fatalistic nigger.
>You can't just close down a pasture and grow crops there
Again, half of the world’s crops are used for animal feed. Switching to growing very similar crops that are suitable for human consumption is not infeasible at all.

[Anonymous No.14158088]

>>14155146
>>14155139
>>14155146
It's very easy to misinterpret. People who switch to veganism in adulthood usually reduce their total caloric intake greatly as this lifestyle change comes with a great deal more care about their diet and health.

In the US recent immigrant populations like vegan Indians have extremely high risk for cardiovascular disease because they eat large amounts of carbs fried in coconut oil. They are extremely inactive and have very narrow, easily occluded coronaries.

Veganism isn't inherently healthier but eating less junk food obviously is.

[Anonymous No.14158175]

>>14158080
>half of the world’s crops are used for animal feed
This is vegan propaganda from a paper paid by grain mills. They distributed crops by weight and then concluded that they are grown for animal because the majority of it is not edible by humans.
The only edible crops we give to animals are grains, which are 1/3 of global production.

[Anonymous No.14158219]

>>14158175
>post argues to switch from growing animal feed to growing edible crops
>but the crops we grow for animals are not edible!

[Anonymous No.14158270]

>>14158219
>NOOOO PLEASE STOP POINTING OUT HOW I TRIED TO DECEIVE YOU
will vegtards ever change?

[Anonymous No.14158315]

>>14158270
>trying to pass off your inability to read as deception on the opposing party’s side

[Anonymous No.14158349]

>>14158315
Let me reiterate this since your brain seems to be slowing down from B12 deficiency:
No crop is ever used for a single purpose. When we grow wheat, the fruit body is used for humans and the leaves, stems, husks and cobbs are used as animal feed.
The authors of the paper that claims that half of all crops are grown for animals concluded, that because the majority of a wheat plant (by weight) is inedible to humans and therefore used as animal feed, it must be grown for animals instead.

They're basically telling you to eat hay.
Not only that, they also claimed that we could feed 4 billion people off of calories alone when our nutritional needs also include fats, protein, minerals, vitamins, etc.

It's propaganda to make you eat more Kelloggs flakes. In fact the paper was sponsored by Kelloggs

[Anonymous No.14158436]

>>14158066
>>14158080
Crops intented as animal feed can have lower quality and different yields. Human crops are different.

>pasture land is just not always flat
Exactly. Which cuts deeply into productivity. A bunch of sheep can graze land that would have to be worked with specialised machines or by hand otherwise.

>If land can grow grass fast, then it can grow anything fast.
No? That depends entirely on the soil and climate. A lot of land can't even grow grass that fast. Australian ranching only works because Australia is so big, not because they can grow grass fast, for instance.

>Switching to growing very similar crops that are suitable for human consumption is not infeasible at all.
It is if you don't ignore the other products animals give apart from their edibles. Like even just the means to do something with inedible plant matter.

>>14158175
Bingo. Animal feed includes the plant parts humans can't eat.

[Anonymous No.14158661]

>>14158436
>Believing that animals deserve free food that humans work to produce.

What a fucking PETArd I'm alright guys!

[Anonymous No.14158825]

>>14157988
Listen, I took a road trip across the United States a couple years ago. I drove across A LOT of farmland. I started in the midwest and up until western Oklahoma it was corn and soy. Could you grow human grade corn and soy there? Maybe, but lets face it. The corn and soy grown there is not just used to feed animals, its also used to produce lots of shitty processed grains that bloat supermarkets and the people who shop there.

Then it was almost all cotton or cattle through northern Texas and New Mexico Honestly, the land was too arid and rocky to "feed the world" on anything else there.
It was only once I got along the Californian coast that I saw what could be land somewhat suitable for industrial human grade crop farming. And honestly, I don't think that's a good thing. The land is being raped and milked dry of all its resources. There are gigantic irrigation systems and oil rigs for miles. I would drive for hours past almond monocrops, the trees all uprooted because they no longer produce at optimum efficiency. And at the end of every row was a beebox. I really hope they were empty, because there wasn't any flowers for miles. But considering that I heard something along the lines of 50 billion bees died in California the winter I drove through there, I am skeptical.

The best land I saw in Cali had vineyards and cattle grazing on it.

And as for overpopulation, I remain skeptical. I drove past so many god damn ghost towns and would sometimes not see any signs of human in habitation for hours, while driving on a main highway.

The problem is everyone left the countryside to cram themselves into cities. Cities are overpopulated, but small towns in the country are underpopulated. I think part of the problem is we have tried to replace farmers with machines and assembly lines like a car factory.

Maybe you shouldn't just regurgitate shit you read on media funded by cooperate overlords who want to control us like livestock and go outside.

[Anonymous No.14158838]

>>14151598
>the soil in commercial farming is now fertilized and if anything has more nutrients in it than what it used to have
Imagine getting paid to shoot the food industry which bribes the FDA to approve glyphosate and other carcinogens on /ck/. fuck off.

[Anonymous No.14158856]

>>14158838
I’m trying to imagine being a shill but all that comes to mind is you, Hearstpuppet.

[Anonymous No.14158928]

>>14158825
>I drove around the US and made up headcanon backstories for all the crops I saw so it would fit my personal narrative without ever stopping to ask the farmers what it was actually for.

[Anonymous No.14158955]

>>14158928
How many farms have you actually been to? Like, I actually LIVE on a farm, grow crops, and talk to farmers everyday. I probably have a better idea whats going on than you do in your micro apartment in the city trying to justify consuming so much without producing so much as a radish.

[Anonymous No.14159000]

>>14158825
>
And as for overpopulation, I remain skeptical. I drove past so many god damn ghost towns and would sometimes not see any signs of human in habitation for hours, while driving on a main highway.
Overpopulation exists and is an accute problem. But it's not so because of a lack of physical space for new humans. It's about the resources we need to keep places like Mumbai, Nigeria, New York running. All the easy sources have been exploited for centuries already. To grow our production of stuff we need new sources or make the existing ones more effective. Which is really bad for sustainability. In fact, we actually have to cut back to reach a sustainable level of resource usage to maintain our current population.

I can never remember which, but one of the components of artificial fertiliser is actually an exhaustable resource and much like oil will run out one day. Artificial fertiliser, the one thing that multiplied food production globally...let that sink in.

[Anonymous No.14159151]

>>14159000
Tell me, why do we need New York running?

Think about it, when in human history before the second half of the 20th century was it commonplace for a single farmer to have and manage 1000+ acres of wheat? Or for a single farm to manage almost 1 million chickens?
1 percent of the United states population is farming today. 100 years ago that number was something like 50 percent.
Maybe more people should be farming? Maybe not 50 percent, but imagine instead of one percent 5 percent of people farmed?

Also, I HATE artificial fertilizer. Why do you think I support livestock and I am so critical of conventional crop farming?

I support REGENERATIVE agriculture, NOT sustainable, because why sustain a degenerated recourse?? We can focus on sustainability once we restore all the topsoil we tilled off and sucked dry of nutrients and organic matter over the past several decades

Livestock and the proper management of their manure/urine is CRUCIAL for healing the damages done by industrial farming. Not with feedlots or CAFOS, but with nature mimicking holistic planned grazing

Humans need to relearn their place in nature, not as blind consumers, but as stewards to the land,

[Anonymous No.14159160]

>>14159151
>Livestock and the proper management of their manure/urine is CRUCIAL for healing the damages done by industrial farming
No they aren’t, fag.

[Anonymous No.14159195]

>>14159160
Ok dyke,tell me your better plan, I'm all ears.

[Anonymous No.14159213]

>>14159195
Giving the livestock to vegans who love them for the animals they are not for profit :) just like you will be giving your kids up for someone more mentally fit

OHHH WE DID IT LADS THE ULTIMATE INSULT

[Anonymous No.14159242]

>>14159213
How will this heal the land? How will vegans who aren't making money be able to take care of the animals?

Also like, hey, talk to me like an adult speaks to another adult.

You sound like an insecure, middle aged bully.

[Anonymous No.14159271]

Veganism exists to make people retarded and complacent.
You arent doing any critical thinking when all your body consumes is plants

[Anonymous No.14159276]

>>14159151
>why do we need New York running?
Places like New York do offer a lot. They're centers for culture, arts, development and advancement. Those are useful things. We simply need a manufacturing base and places where highly educated workforce can aggregate. That doesn't need we need or should have this many or megacities as large as we have them, of course. Yet the times of rural farmers are gone, we'd have to give up a lot of modern medicine and amenities for that. Nobody is willing to pay that prize.

>1 percent of the United states population is farming today. 100 years ago that number was something like 50 percent.
That's not a bad thing in itself. It means that more people can do other stuff than farming. It might even be better for the environment if a few specialists produce our food instead of a large mass.

> I HATE artificial fertilizer
I'm skeptical as well. Yet it did massively increase our harvests. Now that we've used it to grow global population levels, we can hardly go back without making some tough choices about population density.
Which we'll have to do anyway, as returning to a sustainable, natural farming style does reduce harvests. Or so has been my impression at least.

>stewards of the land
Agreed, but that's where overpopulation comes in.

[Anonymous No.14159528]

>>14149287
I'm a vegan communist that plays video games ama
Reminder: cultural "marxism" only occurs under capitalism :^)

[Anonymous No.14159573]

>>14159276
You think rural areas dont offer culture, arts, development, and advancement? Do we really need a concrete jungle to produce those things, especially now in modern times with things like the internet and smartphones? We most certainly would not have to give up modern medicine.

I really dont think the time of the rural farmer is gone, I think we are living in a dark ages of agriculture, but I do also think that the renaissance could be just around the corner. The average age of your typical farmer is around 60-65.
Think about the impact a young, innovative and flexible mind might have on our current agricultural system?

While yes, artificial fertilizer makes it easier for large scale industrial farms to exist, it also doesn't exactly feed more people. Something like 50 percent of produce grown for human consumption ends up in landfills. So maybe we need more small scale farms? Though I also stand by that artificial fertilizer is NOT sustainable and definitely not regenerative.

Again, I don't think overpopulation is as much of an issue as hyper concentrations of human populations.

Besides, I'm not asking for half of the American work force to return to the farm. I'm saying maybe instead of 1 percent maybe 5 percent of people should farm. You don't think there are people in the city working worthless dilbert cubicle jobs that sit and daydream of a more meaningful life closer to nature? Is that why games like stardew valley and harvest moon were so unpopular?

I recently fled the city and I have never, NEVER been happier in my life. I had no idea life could be so meaningful or beautiful, both visually or spiritually.

Anyways, I gotta get back to work. I look forward to your response

[Anonymous No.14159786]

>>14159151
you're giving me strong ted trainer vibes, you read his papers on the simpler way?

[Anonymous No.14159991]

>>14159786
Nah, Ive never heard of him. I just looked him up and I definitely like his creativity.

My influences are people like Joel Salatin, Allan Savory Gabe Brown, along with many others.