Professional Brewer AMA

[BeerGuy No.12023868]

I've seen a few different types of culinary industry AMA threads on here today, and thought you guys might be interested in one relating to the beer industry.

I've been working in the craft beer industry for 4 years, with 3 years brewing professionally at a 15,000 barrel a year production brewery that distributes to multiple states in the USA.

I also have a B.S. degree in Food Science with a focus in Fermentation Sciences.

[BeerGuy No.12023879]

Whoops, I meant to post this gif instead which I think is quite amusing.

Sorry.

[Anonymous No.12023890]

>>12023868
do you have a beard

[Anonymous No.12023892]

>>12023868
What’s your salary?

[BeerGuy No.12023894]

Here's another good cask explosion,

I can also answer general food science/food processing questions but my area of expertise is beer and brewing/ fermentation.

[Anonymous No.12023896]

>>12023868
are you gay?

[Anonymous No.12023905]

More like bullshit degree.

[Anonymous No.12023906]

>>12023894

why is my home brew beer hazy, it's the everyday ipa from brooklyn

[BeerGuy No.12023909]

>>12023890
Sometimes if im lazy. Everyone else I work with does though.

>>12023892
Currently $21USD/hr, not a lot but actually on the higher end for this job in my area.
It is generally better to be paid hourly than salary in brewing as you tend to do a lot of overtime. Pay is usually pretty low in craft beer unless you work for the very large craft breweries or a macro brewery due to large numbers of people wanting to break into the industry for little to no pay because they think it's a "cool job".

[Anonymous No.12023910]

Do you ferment anything else?

[Anonymous No.12023933]

>>12023909
what's your favourite beer

[BeerGuy No.12023944]

>>12023906
Hard to say for sure, I'm not familiar with the ingredients in that particular kit. Usually haze is caused by non-flocculated yeast or hop material. Either you kicked up to much yeast/hop crud when bottling or kegging or you didn't let the yeast/hops settle out for long enough or at cold enough temperatures. If you leave it in the fridge for a while it should clear up. Otherwise it can be caused by too much proteins and compunds called polyphenols (preseent in hops and some grains like oats) which bind together and can form a permanent haze that will not go away no matter how long you let it chill. This is what creates "hazy IPA" that looks like OJ.

>>12023910
At home I make kombucha, sometimes kvass and lacto hot sauce. I just got the Noma fermentation book and am gearing up to try a chicken wing "fish" sauce it describes.

My favorite thing to ferment is the fruited barrel-aged sour beers I make at work and at home. Some are 3 or more years old.

[Anonymous No.12023952]

>>12023933
Coors Light

[Anonymous No.12023963]

Hello fellow beer guy, not brewer am owner and run the taproom though. Got anything neat coming up? We got a blond, coffee stout coming up and it will shit all over the very well received but still mediocre one our cross the street rivals made. You know they fucked up hard with the coffee when after a month you get distinct green pepper flavor. It made me really sad when my clientele didn’t even notice

[BeerGuy No.12023964]

>>12023933
Hard to say, kinda depends on my mood or what I'm doing. Generally I love barrel-aged sours, but they're usually really expensive. Anything from Almanac, Tired Hands, Jester King, American Solera, Beechwood Blendery, or Jolly Pumpkin is great for sours but they can be really hard to find and/or crazy expensive.

A nice cold Olympia or Hamms is great "lawnmower" beer for easy drinking. Go-to IPA that is pretty widely available is either Deschutes Fresh Haze or Sierra Nevada Torpedo or Tropical Torpedo.

[Anonymous No.12023967]

>>12023944
Any favorite kombucha flavorings / teas?

[Anonymous No.12023974]

Hey BeerGuy, isn't possible to brew flavorful beer in less than 2 months?
I'm talking simple beer like an ale

[Anonymous No.12023976]

>>12023974
is it*

[BeerGuy No.12023980]

>>12023963
Nice! Always good when your beer is better than the competition across the street. Haven't done too many coffee beers personally but the few I have I think we made a cold-brew type extraction and blended that after primary fermentation.

Recently I put out a mixed fermentation brett/lacto/pedio beer with strawberries and rhubarb that had been aging in barrels for 2 years. The base beer was a blend of a marzen and golden saison. Tastes like tart strawberry-rhubarb pie. On the non-funky side I just did a 12% triple IPL that the owner demanded we make and saison with chamomile and dry-hopped with lemondrop hops.

The brewery I work originally only made german-style lagers, but since I've started working there they've begun to branch out to keep up with other breweries in the area.

We still make a pilsner, marzen, hefe, and a helles lager year-round as core beers though.

[BeerGuy No.12023999]

>>12023967
Pretty much anything will work for kombucha flavorings, but stay away from anything with fat or oils in it like coffee or chocolate, as it will quickly go rancid or harm your SCOBY. Personally I like lavender and lemon, or good old ginger, sometimes with a bit of cardamom.

>>12023974
Definitely possible to make a good beer in less than two months, you just have to design the recipie and the fermentation to be as quick as possible. Aim for 6% abv max, so original gravity of like 1.040 or 1.050 maximum, and mash at a lower temp (like 62-64C) to get as much conversion of sugars as possible to make the beer easy to ferment. Then get a yeast that has a good attenuation and doesn't make off-flavors at high temps. There is a new type of yeast from norway or something called "Kviek" yeast that can ferment up to like 100F or something crazy and will dry out a beer in 2-3 days. I believe Omega Yeast and Imperial Yeast both sell strains of it now. Other than that, you have to keg the beer and force carb as bottle carbonation and conditioning will take at least 2-3 weeks.

[Anonymous No.12024020]

>>12023980
Do you make an actual hefe or an American hefe(aka wheat ale)? That sour sounds wonderful.
>12% lager
How in the fuck did you do that? Mixed fermentation? How long did it ferment for? Probably tastes good but a little memey for my tastes though I’m sure the customers are paying top dollar for it.

[BeerGuy No.12024047]

>>12024020
The hefe is modeled after a bavarian hefe and we use a house strain of hefe yeast that gives off tons of banana and clove phenols. Yes its not a true German hefe but I think its pretty close. We only use Weyerman (German Malts) and German/European hops in our German-style lagers.

The original owner of the brewery (not current) was an immigrant from Germany and was very serious about making beers to style. We followed German purity law rules for beers for years (no ingredients but malt, yeast and water, no water adjustments or adjuncts allowed), but since the current owner took over they abandoned that philosophy.

12% lager required an absolutely INSANE amount of yeast (around 90L of slurry for about 2500 liters of wort ), and a triple mash on our system that resulted in a 12 hour brewday (this is why I'm glad I'm not on salary). It sat in fermentation for about a 6-8 weeks. Then we lagered it for a month or two before a massive 7 lb/ barrel dry hop. It was a nightmare all around for production but definitely did well in sales.

[BeerGuy No.12024052]

I enjoy watching forklift failures as long as I'm not involved.

[Anonymous No.12024076]

>>12024047
THats good, if I buy a hefe and it tastes clean it makes rage. You need those esters

[Anonymous No.12024085]

>>12023963
>blond coffee stout
Don’t want to sound like one of those CAMRA guys, but seriously, fuck off.

[Anonymous No.12024092]

>>12023974
You’re better off asking a home brewer than a pro. The basic answer is ‘yes’. If you’re aiming for a simple walking-round beer, you can use liquid malt extract, dextrose and hop pellets to boil up a simple lager. /diy/ normally has a home brew thread.

[BeerGuy No.12024110]

>>12024076
Yeah, marketing has gone too far in craft beer in my opinion. Crazy made up styles and pastry stout and marshmallow meme beers are everywhere, and there's not much integrity from brands in staying true to advertised styles.

>>12024085
yeah blonde stout in general is kinda weird in my opinion. Not roasty or dark enough to be regular stout but not sweet or malty enough to be a brown ale, seems like most examples I've tried struggle to figure out what they're supposed to taste like.

[BeerGuy No.12024140]

None of these gifs are from my brewery just a random collection of other peoples beer-related failures I have collected.

[BeerGuy No.12024173]

[Anonymous No.12024196]

Have you ever encountered any insufferable beer snobs? Tell stories.

[BeerGuy No.12024240]

>>12024196
Oh most definitely. Not as much since I stopped having to work at festivals and in the taproom but I used to have to deal with it all the time.

People who are too drunk to even stand up without wobbling but tell you your beer has off-flavors or say things like " well what I find that I really like in IPAs is when they have a pronounced hop character".

No Shit, thats the whole point dumbass.

Or people who order tasting flights and take like 30 minutes photographing every beer for instagram or some shit and then complain the beer is under carbonated or flat. Duh, idiot its been sitting out for 30 minutes while your dicked around on your phone. Also theres the people who just walk up to the bar and ask for "the haziest beer you got bro!".

Beer festivals are the absolute worst for this as everyone gets way too drunk and starts just telling you all their opinions on everything.

One time at a festival, some homebrewer guy asked me for recipe advice on some beer he was making for a contest or something. Then just as I was starting to give him my opinion and some tips, he interrupted like two sentences in to tell me why he had designed the recipie that way and how many other awards he had won and that he had made this beer like 6 times already that it was way better than anything at our booth. I said "well why did you ask for advice if you've got it all figured out? If you don't want to hear what I have to say I'm not going to waste my time or breath talking to you".

He then wrote some crazy email to the owner about how our beers were subpar, and that I was "unprofessionally rude" to him at the festival and that he was "a very influential and powerful member of the local home brewing community". We read the whole thing out loud at our weekly production meeting and laughed at it.

Other than that Untapped reviews are funny to read as people write reviews on sours like "this beer was sour and I didn't like it".

[Anonymous No.12024256]

>>12023868
>craft beer brewer
end your life

[Anonymous No.12024271]

>>12024140
>its a woman
Figures, what did this dumb broad do to cause this?

[BeerGuy No.12024298]

>>12024271
If you put in hops after the beer is done fermenting (called "Dry Hopping"), and there is residual carbonation from the fermentation, the hops cause whats called "nucleation points" or areas where the
C02 bubbles no longer are dissovled and want to come out of solution. This causes foam. When you do this in massive tank, it causes a lot of foam, very fast, which results in a spike in pressure and beer shooting out the port on the tank that you opened to dump the hops in. The pressure can be so great its impossible to close the tank port, and it can easily knock you off of your feet.

Its like that party trick where someone taps the top of your bottled beer with the bottom of their beer bottle and it makes foam rocket out the top of your bottle. Only its a 4000 gallon tank instead of a 12 oz bottle.

The only way to prevent it is to make sure there is no residual C02 in beer before dry-hopping or add the hops really slowly a little bit a time or use a pump to recirculate the beer through a separate vessel containing the hops.

It happens really often in the industry because people think it wont happen to them for some reason and then they're hanging on for life getting blasted in the face by hundreds of gallons of beer on top a ladder.

[Anonymous No.12024340]

>>12024298
What was your food science program like. Would you say it was worth it?

[Anonymous No.12024430]

>>12024340
It was a four year program at very well known University that is highly regarded for food science. The curriculum was heavily based in chemical analysis techniques, biochemistry, and sensory science, which is just basically applied statsistics for food. Also did a fair amount of microbiology too.

I learned a ton and definitely apply things I've learned from it on a daily basis in my job,and my everyday life, but the curriculum was so broad that I never learned enough of any one subject to really master it. Food Science is such a complex area that involves so many different areas of distinctly different scientific fields. I defintely got the impression that if you really want to do interesting things in food science, you need at least a Masters degree or a PHD.

The people who seemed to do well after the program were those that already had a clear interest or career path when they entered the program. For example, I knew I wanted to work in beer before entering the program. Otherwise the bachelors program just kinda funneled you into working as a lab monkey in quality control/quality assurance at large food production companies.

I don't regret doing it, but depending on what you want to do in food industry it may or may not be worth it. It could be better to just try to get work experience in your chosen field if you can.

For me it helped me to move up quickly at my brewery because I understood the reasons why I was doing things rather than just repeating things I had been trained to do. It also gave me deeper understanding of brewing overall than some of my coworkers who just understood how to do things at this particular facility. However, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, brewing isn't the most lucrative job, so in my case I'm not sure money-wise it was the best return on my investment.

It did not teach me how to cook, how to brew or how to make any specific product.

[BeerGuy No.12024437]

>>12024430
>>12024340
Sorry forgot my name on that post but this was me the OP.

Also, I know everyone hates reddit here, but if your interested in food science there is a subreddit called "Food Science" that has lot of industry people and food science students. Maybe ask around or lurk there a bit to find out a bit more what it's like for others and if youre interested.

[BeerGuy No.12024484]

I'm going to leave this thread for a while but if it's still up a in a few hours I'll return to post more brewing related gifs and respond to whatever

[Anonymous No.12024521]

Any insight on pitching rates for secondary bugs (dregs)? Main fermentation would be with saison or belgian yeast then racked into barrels for secondary. MTF doesn't say a lot and it isn't a clear topic. Also ferm temp and time would be nice.

[Anonymous No.12024559]

>>12023868
Do you reuse yeast from previous fermentations? If so, do you wash it or just collect and pitch the slurry? Liquid yeast has gotten so damned expensive do you think it would be worth it for a homebrewer to do or is the risk of contamination too high?

[Anonymous No.12024616]

Do you also brew cola? You're not a real brewery if you don't brew at least one soft drink, so that the kids can enjoy something too. Doesn't have to be cola though

[Anonymous No.12025095]

>>12023974
Honestly go to one of those old hobby brew forums where 50 year olds post and just take one of their recipes

[Anonymous No.12025117]

>>12024616
Fuck kids

[Anonymous No.12025154]

>>12025117
That's what most animu fags want to do.

[Anonymous No.12025158]

>>12025154
It's distressing that you immediately thought about that sexually

[Anonymous No.12025199]

>>12023868
How hard would you say your job is? Is it mostly just standing around waiting for stuff to happen or do you physically work 24/7?

How was the education like? How hard was it to get a job in a brewery?

[Anonymous No.12025226]

>>12023868
>degree in Food Science
It's definitely BS lol

[Anonymous No.12025288]

>>12023906
put a clearing agent in it

[BeerGuy No.12025334]

>>12024521
If you're using standard size wine barrels, you're going to need a lot of dregs (like 10-15 bottles worth) as it is a lot of volume and not many cells that you are adding. I dont reccomend small barrels (like the 5 or even 15 gallon ones) as the surface area is much higher and beer will oxidize incredibly fast and you'll be making vinegar at that point.

When using dregs you have to remember that you are getting whatever is still surviving in the bottle or whatever they add as a bottle conditioning strain. Verify that the brewery isn't using a killer wine yeast or isn't pasterizing or force carbing the beer you're taking dregs from or adding dregs is useless. It's best to use a mix of several different beers you like with really aggressive cultures (like beer that is really sour or funky) as you know it will survive. Good ones are jolly pumpkin beers or jester king if you can get them. Do it as soon as possible after opening bottle to limit chance of adding something you dont like.

In barrels, the wood is semi-permiable to air, so you dont have full control of what's growing in the beer. Temperature doesn't matter a ton, it's more important to keep from giant temperature swings. Shoot for 70-75. Time is relative to the base beer and how it was made and how agressive and strong the bacteria are. Expect at least six months. Each barrel will be different and you will have to blend to get any kind of consistency. Barrel aging and mixed fermentation is really complicated and I could write a whole thread about it itself. MTF is great resource in general also check out Sour Hour podcast.

[BeerGuy No.12025362]

>>12024559
Almost every commercial brewery will reuse yeast due to saving money. We dont wash the yeast, but we have the advantage of giant conical fermented. Usually we will take yeast from a low-to medium gravity beer that is not dry-hopped. We grow it up more in a brink or keg that is continuously recirculating and oxygenating and verify cell count and vitality with microscope. We typically go about 12-15 generations.

You can definitely repitch in homebrewing but you will have to wash the yeast no matter what unless you got a conical fermenter. You must have excellent sanitation skills or you WILL get an infected batch. Dont go more than 3-4 generations unless your really confident you know what your doing. Dont harvest from high gravity or high abv beers or beers with giant dry hop charges.

[Anonymous No.12025370]

Do you need a BSc to become a decent brewer? Can you become an brewer assistant and eventually a brewer if you at least have some good technical/mathematical knowledge?

[BeerGuy No.12025431]

>>12024616
No we make flavored selzter though. In the USA you need an additional liscence to make soda as well as beer.

>>12025199
It's a pretty physical job. I'm on my feet for 8+ hours a day and you have to be able to move full kegs of beer and lift 55lb bags of malt as well as quickly shovel out thousands of pounds of spent grain. Some places are more automated than mine but you can never get away entirely from the physicality of the job.

I'm never standing around. If I'm waiting around for one part of the process I'm also doing something else. Brewing is 90% cleaning stuff and only 10% actually doing things to beer, so you have to not mind scrubbing and power washing and squeegeeing and hosing shit down for hours. You have to be ok with getting wet, dirty and working in extreme hot and cold environments. It's not for everyone.

It can be hard to get your foot in the door initially as a lot people think it's way more fun and glamorous than it is and want to work at breweries, then leave when they see it's not what they thought. If you are just starting out you will probably be doing bitchwork like cleaning kegs and packaging line for at least 6 months before they will start to train you on other operations. Then you will probably work in the cellar transferring, carbonating and filtering beer for at least a year before starting to actually brew.

Processes in breweries can be really complicated and dangerous so it takes about a 1-2 years of training to get someone to the level that they can confidently do everything themselves. If you have manufacturing or engineering experience you might move up faster.

[BeerGuy No.12025459]

>>12025370
No you do not need a degree. As long as your technically minded and willing to work hard you can start as assistant brewer or keg washer and work your way up. It might take a little longer and be harder to get your foot in the door than if you have a science or engineering degree though.

Plenty of people I work with dont even have college degrees or have a degree in some completely unrelated field. There are also a lot of people with degrees in chemical engineering or biochemistry in the field though and you will be competing with them for jobs.

[Anonymous No.12025514]

>>12025334
I have some starters made from dregs (3F & Boon lambic), so I'm asking about how much of slurry add to a standard wine barrel. I've tested this dregs on several homebrew batches and I think they might suit well in my future commercial sour beer program.

As far as the rest of stuff you wrote - I know most of it, I've been listening to BN for about 7 years. It's just this stuff isn't clear (pitch rates & temperature) and I've got a feeling that it is some kind of a crapshoot, so the most important thing is to have a large barrel program, to have some kind of selection and be ready to dump mistakes down the drain (around 5-15% as I've heard).
I like hard data and there is close to none on the topic of sour beer quality assurance.

[Anonymous No.12025539]

>>12025370
I'm only a home brewer of a few months now but you surely do not need special training to make decent beer. There are endless tomes of instructions and recipes for free on the web. You need a few special brewing tools and ingredients, additional normal kitchen tools and ingredients, and basic food-prep cleaning, measuring, boiling, etc ability. It's really pretty easy to make decent beer - excellent beer, I'm not there yet. Maybe some day with practice.

[Anonymous No.12025540]

cool thread op thanks for all the info

[Anonymous No.12025547]

>>12023964
>Not loving Chad Abita Beer

[Anonymous No.12025549]

>>12024140
Fucking hell. I mean what are you even supposed to do at that situation. Just let it flood the entire floor and quit your job?

[Anonymous No.12025656]

>>12023868
How can you be a professional brewer with a degree and not know the difference between ‘your’ and ‘you’re’?

[BeerGuy No.12025664]

>>12025514
As far as pitch rate, if your cell density and bacteria/yeast population isn't known its impossible to recommend a specific pitch volume of slurry because I don't know whats in it or how much stuff is growing in there. What I typically do is make a full 1/2 bbl keg (15 gallons or so) starter with dregs and a simple base wort (like saison or golden sour wort) and pitch that whole thing into a barrel with more saison or golden sour beer . Ill wait about a month or two and then add about 10% (approx 6 gallons) or so of this barrel to other barrels and fill up the rest of the way with desired beer to be soured. Once you get it going strong after the first turn or so I dont even repitch I just add new beer or wort ontop of the lees in the barrel. This is similar to a solera method used in sherry.

As far as temp goes, warmer temperatures (80-100F) will favor lacto and pedio and will make your beer sour faster but be less complex. Also will favor growth of acetobacter. Anything below 60F and brett will be even slower than normal and you will get almost zero bacterial activity. Humidity and composition of base beer or wort will also effect bacterial and fungal populations but thats pretty complicated to get into.

As you said barrel aging and fermentation of sour beers is not really precise. Its kinda more of an art, and its really dependent on your local conditions. This is why I love it so much. You can do stainless instead of barrels or use foders to make it more predictable.

Expect to defintely dump lots of beer in the beginning. Dump beer as soon you notice its getting acetic or your just inoculating your barrel room with more acetobacter.

[Anonymous No.12025687]

Any books i should read before starting out brewing?

[BeerGuy No.12025762]

>>12025687
"The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" by Charlie Papazian is a classic that is great for people just starting out in homebrewing.

[BeerGuy No.12025806]

>>12025549
a lot of mopping, squeeqeeing and apologizing for letting thousands of $ down the drain.

[Anonymous No.12025838]

Thanks OP.

This thread and your Q&A is legit and rare content here.

[Anonymous No.12026076]

What other fermented beverages and/or vegetables would you recommend people to get into?

[BeerGuy No.12026121]

>>12026076
kvass, kombucha and "ginger bug" style ginger ale are pretty easy to make and dont require any special equipment aside from bottles and a fermentation jar or bucket. Kefir is fun but the tase can be off-putting to some.

As far as vegetables go, the classic sourkraut and kimchi are easy and pretty easy and quick. Radish and leek kimchi is absolutely delicious and tastes amazing with fried eggs and some rice. Usually I just keep a jar of fermented vegetables going that I just throw random vegetable scraps into whenever and throw it in the fridge when it gets sour enough. Fermented hot sauce is easy and fun with endless variations. They are all lacto fermentations mostly so if you can manage one you can do any of the others usually.

Lately i've been lacto fermenting fruit and berries which gives them and interesting savory tartness that makes them great for savory applications like sauces for meat or salad dressings.

[BeerGuy No.12026127]

>>12026121
Also making your own vinegar from fruit, wine or beer is super easy and is a great trick to add flavor to cooking with little work.

I'm going out for a few hours and will be away from the thread, but if its still up later I will return.

[Anonymous No.12026212]

>>12024430
>>12024437

Thanks, live near a couple schools with great programs and was considering going back to school with food science in mind not for brewing but have interests in fermentation and distillation.

[Anonymous No.12026648]

What is your opinion on beers with crazy high abv, like pic related (15-20%)

[Anonymous No.12026667]

What do you think of the following twitter accounts. Featuring minorities in beer and inclusion. Often, the Founders brewery racial discrimination case comes up.
@tonitwopint
@beerkulture
. What you think?

[BeerGuy No.12026729]

>>12026127
disregard this, I suck cock

[BeerGuy No.12026872]

>>12026648
Not really a fan of beers like this. They are usually super unbalanced (lots of hot, solvent flavors from the alcohol or way too sweet from all the extra sugar) and hard to drink in larger amounts than a taster due to the abv or the taste. Also they are usually crazy expensive. Personally I'd rather drink whiskey than a 15% beer.

>>12026667
I checked out those accounts briefly and I do think diversity is a major issue in the industry that needs to be addressed. However the tone of those accounts seems kind of angry/divisive. I'm not sure that kind of attitude is conducive to solving the problem.

[Anonymous No.12026890]

>>12026872
>I do think diversity is a major issue in the industry that needs to be addressed
In what manner though? Generally anyone could research and brew beer and show interest in working at a brewery (especially ones in major liberal-majority cities) so what’s the issue there? I’m glad your not eating up the clickbait though and actually made a solid thread, good shit OP!

[Anonymous No.12026926]

>>12026648
when they're good, they're great
when they're bad, they're awful

[Anonymous No.12027000]

>>12026667
Craft beer is seen a white mans (women to a lesser extent) world. There’s lots of casual misogyny and racism especially in the customers. I’m the taproom anon from earlier and I’ve literally been in places were a bartender was dismissive and curt in answering the questions of two pretty good looking black dudes while spending extra time and attention on a pretty white girl whose tastes began and ended with sweet. It was frustrating because the black dudes like craft beer and wanted to spend more money or try new things but were not be8ng helped while a giggly blonde should have been handed an angry orchard and told to fuck off

[BeerGuy No.12027023]

>>12026890
You are right in that theoretically anyone could work at a brewery, but the reality is that the brewing industry is composed of all most all white men. It is very cliquish and nepotism is rampant.

Most breweries have really small staff, and for entry level positions they will hire their friend's kid, or their neighbor or someone that seems like they would want to hang out with over someone they dont know. They will justify this as to wanting to hire people who fit their "company culture". This perpetuates the stereotype of all brewers looking like bearded hipster white dudes.

When they breweries get bigger however, they dont realize that they are under way more scrutiny and are expected to follow the fair hiring practices of other industries, resulting in some of the recent scandals seen in the industry with Founders and Melvin ect.

Overall the lack of diversity in the brewing industry causes people to think they can fix the problem by opening "minority only" breweries or creating "diversity only" internships that also end up gate keeping white people out of the industry.

The end result for both groups is people who love beer and might advance or be very successful in the industry never make it in and overall the industry misses out on talent.

[Anonymous No.12027025]

>>12027000
>n
black dudes with money have good taste in beer
listen I'm a casually racist white guy, I can say this,
if a negro wearing slacks starts talking about craft beer, listen in, you'll probably learn something

[BeerGuy No.12027064]

>>12026212
If you want to get into distilling, you might be better off with an engineering or chemical engineering program. Distilling is basically applied physical chemistry.

[BeerGuy No.12027120]

Enjoy some pellicle porn.

[Anonymous No.12027344]

>>12027000
>>12027025
Brotha with money here. You know, I spend a lot of time trying to educate my people on craft beer, brew methods, styles. I actually enjoy taking one of my friends that drinks ol E and turn him onto a heifewiezen. They love it, I love showing them and spreading craft beer knowledge. However, we are growing. When I step foot into a brewery or taphouse, I’m paying attention to how I’m treated. Nothing is more clear than how people treat us. We know we’re underrrepresented. I “Black count” when I go places but I don’t mind. We know that, If the vibes off I’m taking my friends and leaving. Nothing worse than a bartender who talks down, poor customer service, poor conversation.

[Anonymous No.12027449]

>>12027120
What's job security like in the industry? With the metric tons of new craft breweries opening up in recent times and all the acquisitions of larger breweries by larger corporations, what's your impression of how things are going to go in the future?

[BeerGuy No.12027574]

>>12027449
Not great really. Growth in craft beer sales has been shrinking year over year for the past 3 years, but more and more breweries are opening every day. The beer market cannot support the insane amount of growth the industry has seen I the last 20 years. There are so many regional breweries competing for the same customer base.

Currently the only way to stay relevant is staying ahead of the trends in beer, even when they seem stupid. However those types of sales tend to be fleeting and new fads and styles pop up.

The overhead on starting a brewery is very high due to permits, licensing, equipment costs ect. Owners who think it would be fun to own a brewery but know nothing about it are really common, and they can burn a lot of employees when they realize they are tons of debt and are not going to be profitable for the next few years, so they close down within 5 years of opening. I see it all the time in the industry.

In my opinion, the smaller local places that are in tune with their communities and pander to local consumer base will survive, as will the giant craft brands like Sierra Nevada and Deschutes. It's the medium sized breweries that will struggle and start closing down more and more over the next ten years.

[Anonymous No.12027630]

What beer did you most recently brew? How long do you usually plan to make a recipe? Is it off the cuff or based on supply/demand.

[Anonymous No.12027678]

>>12023944
How do you make your kvass, what ingredients do you add?

[Anonymous No.12027741]

i like brewing but it made me drink way to much, so i havent done it in a few years, maybe this summer ill do a nice pale ale.

[Anonymous No.12027753]

>>12027344
Hey I worry sometimes if I’m too nice but I really just want PoC to enjoy themselves. There’s a lot we can learn about each other around a pint of beer and some good food

[Anonymous No.12027880]

>>12027753
All you got to do is be real. Nothing else, be open receptive and we learn from each other all day! Community breweries especially should have that outlook.

[Anonymous No.12028295]

Beer should absolutely transcend race, after all, virtually every culture has a fermented drink of some kind.
That said, regarding >>12027000, if the ‘black dudes’ are more interested in banging an airhead white chick than drinking good beer, then fuck them. I don’t go to a whorehouse to drink or a dive bar to eat, so fuck anyone who goes to a craft beer taproom to pick up.

[Anonymous No.12028313]

>>12026212
Did someone say distilling?
I got into moonshining as an offshoot to home brewing and currently produce about a gallon of 184 proof a month using a reflux still.

[Anonymous No.12028321]

>>12028295
Disregard that, I read it wrong. Fuck me for being a dick. Apologies for my idiocy.

[Anonymous No.12028480]

>>12027064
>>12027120
Is it edible?

[Anonymous No.12028829]

>>12027023
Fair enough, although the Founders case seems kinda questionable as the claims the one guy made haven’t been proven in court yet.
>>12027344
>We know we’re underrrepresented. I “Black count” when I go places
That seems a little silly to be quite honest.

[Anonymous No.12029031]

>>12028829
It's not silly at all, it's natural. You'd do the same if you went to a place with 40 black people and 2 or three white ones.

[Anonymous No.12029084]

>>12029031
I literally don’t though because I simply don’t care. Even if I have issues with certain cultures, and my own culture being undervalued within my own country, I’m not going to be persuaded to leave a place that’s majority of a race or culture that’s not my own unless the service and the product sucks ass or the server/owner acts like a moron. Plenty of people in the local music community aren’t white but I don’t feel myself looking around because it doesn’t matter, I just want to find people to work on music with.

[Anonymous No.12029097]

>>12029084
Then I'm wrong. Sorry about that. I'm not the black guy with money from before, btw.

[Anonymous No.12029100]

>>12023964
NorCal?

[Anonymous No.12029367]

>>12023868
Hey OP, as a home brewer how do I move on from pre measured recipe kits to making my own recipes?

[Anonymous No.12029375]

>>12029367
Step 1: use pre-made kits.

Step 2: find a recipe you like online. Buy the ingredients it calls for and folllow directions.

Step 3: after having done 1 and 2 enough times that you start to develop a feel for how each ingredient affects your batch then you start to create your own recipes.

If you want to experiment you can easily do so: prepare two identical batches but with one variation--perhaps use a different type of hops for each one, or a different malt, or a different amount of something, etc. Make both, compare the two.

[Anonymous No.12029574]

>>12023980
Metropolitan brewing in Chicago??

[BeerGuy No.12029826]

>>12027630
Most recently was a pilsner, have to make one every two weeks. If I want to make a new beer I have to pitch the idea to the head brewer, owner and the production manager. If it's something that's gonna be bottled or canned, It has to be approved at least 3 months before so we can get the label artwork and TTB approval.

>>12028480
Yeah, the werid white film will dissolve in the beer if you mix it around. It's just a film made by brett to limit oxygen. I think the pic is a sour beer with some fruit floating around in there.

>>12029367
Best thing to do is find recipes you already know work and try to tweak one or two ingredients. Then you get an idea of what different ingredients will do and how to use them with your system. Dont change to many things at once or you wont know what effect each change has. Use brewing software like beersmith or brewers friend if you dont want to or dont know how to do the mathematical calculations involved.

[Anonymous No.12029851]

>>12029826
How often do your pitches get rejected? Curious what kind of things are seen disfavorable to the upper management.

[BeerGuy No.12029870]

>>12027678
Pretty much use this method: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/the-tsars-kvass/..

Changes I do is cut the amount of malt in half, because I think 4% abv is too much for kvass, I prefer around 2%. I also omit the hops and grains of paradise. You must use a good crusty high quality rye bread or it will taste bland. For the soured portion you can add probiotic that contains only lactobacillus like swanson's tablets or good belly straight shot instead of the uncrushed malt for a more predictable and cleaner flavor. Yeast can be a neutral ale yeast like US05 or bakers yeast can also work.

[Anonymous No.12029952]

>>12024430
>Otherwise the bachelors program just kinda funneled you into working as a lab monkey in quality control/quality assurance at large food production companies.
Isn't that the fucking truth. So glad I was able to escape to a R&D job after a year and a half.

[Anonymous No.12029985]

>>12029870
>kvass
>rye bread

Is any kind of rye bread ok? Does pumpernickel work?

[Anonymous No.12030007]

4% ABV?
I'd wish I could do a side by side test

[BeerGuy No.12030031]

>>12029851
I dont make many pitches because I dont see the value of giving the brewery the opportunity to profit off of my ideas without any benefit to me. If I want to express myself creatively I do it through the mixed fermentation sours coming out of the barrel room, because nobody else understands how tkk or wants to deal with it but me and the batches are much smaller so I can do pretty much whatever I want without needing approval.

Most of the time pitches are rejected for logistical reasons like using too many or too expensive ingredients that are not part of our normal supply and thus cant be used in a different beer. Or its because there are equipment/process limitations that make it not feasible.

The owner frequently pushes through any ideas he wants has though, and he has no idea how to actually brew. Usually results in production having to jump through hoops to accommodate his ideas even if they cause problems.

[BeerGuy No.12030330]

>>12029985
Pumpernickel would probably be great. Avoid the rye bread with carraway seeds in unless you like that flavor. The bread is mostly for flavor so you can use any kind you like mostly as long as you think it will taste good.

[Anonymous No.12030336]

>>12027344
>I black count
>if the vibes off
Imagine being this much of a racist.
Beer people aren't out to get you and nobody at a craft brewery gives a fuck that you're black. The craft scene is one of the most cucked up, bleeding heart, SJW liberal scenes a dude can be a part of. You're way more likely to be mistreated by staff or by patrons for being white and wearing Trump apparel at such a place. Ask the Proud Boys how their brewery meetings have gone.

[Anonymous No.12030636]

>>12030336
>proud boys
>nascar/wwf worshipping bud light drinkers who litter the highways with empties
>craft beer drinkers
Lmao!

[Anonymous No.12030641]

>>12023894
>>12023879
>>12024140
ozapft is

[Anonymous No.12030655]

>>12030336
ask your token black friend what its like for him when he goes to a brewery. I bet he gets his beer after everyone else. guaranteed he has sat in that situation. Im open minded but there is a difference in how we're treated. totally exists in craft beer culture senpai.

[Anonymous No.12030900]

>>12030636
Gavin McInnis litrally founded Vice so I'd imagine he's at least 50% soy and 50% bullshit.
>>12030655
>I bet he gets his beer after everyone else
That literally doesn't happen and I live in the tundra mecca of SJWs (Toronto). I've been to plenty of beerpubs and as long as your cool and not stumbling in drunk then you'll be treated the same as everyone else, same as you would in basically every other bar. The only people that put minorities on a pedestal are students unions at local universities or so called "black alliance" groups that are basically black panther-lite groups for stupid people.
Honestly you're as retarded as that guy is.

[Anonymous No.12031532]

>>12030655
Why are black people literally the most racist subset of American society? Don't project your own low self image onto the motivations of others. Nobody cares that your skin is dark, but nobody likes a whiny bitch either.

[Anonymous No.12031559]

>>12030636
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Proud+boys+brewery

[Anonymous No.12031722]

>>12030655
When you hoot and holler and bother all the guests the owners tend to be a little agitated, at least they still serve him

[Anonymous No.12031799]

>>12023868
what state do you brew in? California head brewer here with 5ish years experience.

[Anonymous No.12031885]

>>12023894
>tap tap tap
>just tap it in

[Anonymous No.12031895]

>>12023896
i wouldn't drink "lait" or expired milk desu

[BeerGuy No.12032372]

>>12031799
CA. Dont want to say more than that on here.

[BeerGuy No.12032410]

>>12031799
How many bbl you do last year?

[Anonymous No.12033289]

What's your favorite macro lager/pilsner?

[Anonymous No.12033327]

>>12030636
There was time that lumping a whole demographic together and ascribing them all negative traits was seen a prejudicial and discriminatory. Thank god we live in a world where that now only happens to straight white people who are politically right of Bernie Sanders.

[Anonymous No.12033363]

I know you recommended a book for brewing in general. Did you have a book that explains more so the science / process of brewing?

I understand basics of fermentation (MS in biology) but would like to have a cool reference textbook.

[Anonymous No.12033375]

>>12033363
You have an MS but lack the ability to independently research texts potentially relevant to your field of interest?
What does MS stand for where you come from? Muffin sampler?

[Anonymous No.12033547]

>>12033375
Just didn't feel like doing it myself. If he gave the first guy a book reccomendation I figure he would give me one too.

I could research my own, but why not just ask them since they did a degree and are now working in the subject?

I guess I get a -1 for being lazy though. Smh.

[Anonymous No.12033627]

Hey OP, I guess it's important to have good sensory skills in your field. Do you agree? How did you develop them? Do they transfer well in other fields?

Thanks for the thread,, it's the kind of I keep browsing ck for.

[Anonymous No.12033782]

Great thread.

Thanks OP, I don't remember when I last enjoyed 4chan like this and I'm not even a particularly big fan of beer.

[Anonymous No.12033793]

>>12033547
You could always ask someone else with a degree, who isn't a faggot

[BeerGuy No.12033952]

>>12033363
"Scientific Principles of Malting & Brewing" by Charles Bamforth. "Technology Brewing and Malting" by Wolfgang Kunze. Look for most recent/ 6th edition. Tons of others are great too check out titles here: https://my.mbaa.com/MBAAStore
Or here: http://my.asbcnet.org/asbcstore..

>>12033627
Yes it is very important to have good sensory skills and a good understanding of statistics/sensory science. You can train yourself and others with flavor kits that you can purchase that contain pills with concentrated chemicals that compose common off flavors that you can dose in beer. I think it is more important to have a well-trained panel or group of people rather than just yourself because one persons observations dont mean much stats wise and you can be blind to flavors or aromas. I would say it is most important to understand what causes particular flavors and aromas chemically/process wise than to actually be able to identify them.

[Anonymous No.12034007]

>>12033952
>it is more important to have a well-trained panel or group of people rather than just yourself because one persons observations dont mean much stats wise and you can be blind to flavors or aromas
I'm not brewing beer, but I noticed several specific flavor blindess or 'supertasting' in people. Though my products have been confirmed balanced and interesting by a small panel of rather trained persons, now I wonder what flavors I'm blind to, lol.

>a good understanding of statistics/sensory science
Any book recommendation?

[Anonymous No.12034376]

>>12032410
last year was just over 3000bbl

[Anonymous No.12034395]

>>12023906
use irish moss.

[BeerGuy No.12034402]

>>12034007
"Sensory Evaluation of Food: Statistical Methods and Procedures" by Michael Omahony. Also "Sensory Evaluation of Food: Principles and Practices" by Hildegard. Flavor blindness and super tasting is 100% a real and commonly occurring thing and the only way to protect against it is use large panels of tasters

[BeerGuy No.12034444]

>>12034376
Cool, anything fun you put out lately? What sort of beers do you make at your place?

[Anonymous No.12034516]

OP, are there ANY mainstream beers that aren’t absolute garbage in your view? Blue Moon, Guinness, etc.

[BeerGuy No.12034723]

>>12034516
Guiness and Newcastle are ok. Shock top and blue moon are garbage imo. Budweiser (not bud lite) is fine too. Sapporo and kirin are pretty refreshing and light. Overall, macro breweries are amazing at consistency. Budweiser will taste exactly the same no matter where or when you buy it, and that is technically very difficult to do and impressive when you consider that they have multiple facilities all over the world with different water, variations in raw materials ect. Honestly I think the major weakness with craft beer overall is lack of consistency and the importance of quality control, and that is something we could learn from the big guys.

[Anonymous No.12034883]

>>12024240
That would get quite annoying. Thx for sharing.

[Anonymous No.12035059]

>>12023868
Speaking of consistency. Does it ever happen that you screw up a batch in such a way that it's fairly salvageble, but you decide to bottle it and sell it anyway, as a "new, limited edition" beer in your lineup?

[BeerGuy No.12035294]

>>12035059
No, I havent seen that happen yet. What did happen once was one of the other brewers messed up on a batch of one of our core beers in such a way that it tasted ok but was out of spec for the style. It just sat in the cellar for a while and over the next few months we blended a little of it in future batches of the same beer in order to get rid of it. We did a few triangle and difference test with our tasting panel and their was no discernible difference. I still felt kinda shitty about it though.

[Anonymous No.12035298]

>>12023868
Any good recommendations for a tepache recipe?

[Anonymous No.12035335]

>>12035294

Which beer styles lends themselves best to blending? I've seen a friend or two pour two beers into the same glass and the result always better than expected and seem like witchcraft to me. I reckon they go with two beers that are fairly established to mix well. But it's all still so esoteric at first glance to me.

[BeerGuy No.12035463]

>>12035298
https://wineandhop.com/blogs/news/make-tepache-at-home

I only made it once but it turned out pretty good. However I make ginger bug/ginger beer a lot and its really a similar method. Tips are you must use filtered water and organic pineapple to be sure you dont kill the yeast. Palm sugar and or dark brown sugar is needed to provide nutrients for the yeast/bugs, white sugar wont work well. Gently wipe off any dirt on the skin of pineapple before with a damp cloth but do not wash the pineapple skin. Fill up the container almost all the way and use a pickle weight or a sanitized stone to ensure none of the pineapple floats or you WILL get mold. White foam is ok and you can skim it off with a sanitized spoon but if you get fuzzies or mold or dont see any fermentation within 24-48 hrs or it doesn't look or smell good, throw the whole thing out, rigoursly clean and sanitize and start over. Remember the golden rule of ferments: "when in doubt, throw it out ". The longer you let it ferment the more alcoholic and sour it gets, but it quickly will turn to vinegar if you let it go to long. Pineapple vinegar is delicious though.

[BeerGuy No.12035540]

>>12035335
I've seen bartenders at the taproom do it, but personally I dont really like to blend finished beer because I know someone worked hard to ensure that beer tastes the way it does. Of course there is the popular British "Snakebite" of 1/2 a mild flavored lager and 1/2 hard cider but be careful because these are notoriously easy to drink. Also the well known "black and tan" of 1/2 stout and half pale ale. Generally I think it's like cocktails, you want things with complementary flavors or something strongly flavored mixed with something lighter and refreshing to mellow it out a bit.

[BeerGuy No.12035656]

Pic is a fouder. They are basically giant barrels/wooden tanks that come in many shapes and sizes. Typically used for mass aging or fermenting a whole bunch of sour/mixed fermentation beers at once. The benefit of a fouder over barrels is that because all of the beer is being aged/fermented in one vessel, the entire batch will have much more consistency than using multiple smaller wine-style barrels. I think they are very sexy and I would love to play around with one at work but they are usually crazy expensive to buy and ship.

[Anonymous No.12036718]

>>12023868
I've made moonshine twice now in the following way:
>20lbs of apples
>4lbs of sugar
>~3 gallons of water
>Bakers yeast
I mash up the apples, add hot water and sugar and then stir in a packet of yeast that I activated with sugar. I wait like 2 weeks and then distill it. I get a decent product, but how do I know that the apples are fermenting and not just the sugar? Do I need malted barley or amylase enzyme to convert the sugar in the apples, too? Thanks for the help

[Anonymous No.12036841]

>>12026212
>>12028313

Professional distiller here, over eight years experience. One of two at the distillery I've been at for 3 years. We make vodka, gin and single malt whiskey in Scottish pot stills with no automation or electronics. Various awards have placed us as one of the best craft distilleries in the country. Not trying to hijack the thread but if anyone has any questions about distilling or the spirits industry in general I'm pretty deep in it and can answer some things.

>>12024240
Festivals and private events are the fucking worst. I can immediately tell when someone walks up if they're going to try and swing their dick about. I swear it's like a cry for attention. They desperately want you, the professional, to know that they're not like all these others, that they know a thing or two and just want validation.

[Anonymous No.12036960]

>>12036718
I havent done much distilling and >>12036841 can probably answer this better than me, but no need for amlayse because apples do not contain starch. I would recommend not using bakers yeast as it cant handle much alchohol, use an actual distillers yeast instead, that stuff is made to handle as much alcohol as possible. The only way to know if your sugar is gone is take a hydrometer/refractometer reading of gravity/brix/plato before and after fermentation and it should be close to your yeasts listed attenuation.

>>12036841
Nice to see so many other booze industry anons in this thread.

[BeerGuy No.12036969]

>>12036960
Forgot my name but it was me here. Also >>12036718 dont forget to remove all stems and seeds and possibly cores from apples so your not making any methanol (bad poison not good poison)

[Anonymous No.12036991]

>>12036841
That's cool. Could you tell us who you work for, or is that confidential?

[Anonymous No.12037072]

>>12036991
Sorry bud, no can do. Probably no reason to be paranoid but still.

>>12036718
In addition to what BeerGuy said, removing the seeds will help reduce methanol production but you'll still have some. The only way to be sure is with proper cuts which you should be doing anyway. Methanol is going to be one of the more volatile compounds in your still and so you can be confident that your first collection (foreshots) is going to have a good amount of methanol. 3 gallons isn't going to have much more than a couple ounces of foreshots that you can reliably collect first, water down and toss out.

[Anonymous No.12037120]

I'm turning my back on the brewing industry, been doing it professionally for four years. The last straw for me was when I found out the cooks working in the brand new kitchen we were opening were getting paid more than me. You're lucky to have something $21/hr...I looked at going to some bigger breweries but nobody wants to compensate you for your experience unless you get it with that brewery. So I would have to take a pay cut and then maybe 4+ years later I could work my way up to $20/hr and it will never get any better than that.

People in sales' base salary was more than I made in an entire year plus they get commission on top of that. We get a new tank, come out with a new year-round beer and they get a big commission check for doing nothing while we do all the work. It was really frustrating at times. I got a free trip to GABF one year but that doesn't help me save for retirement or be able to afford a family. It was fun while I was young but I'm moving on...

Don't know how common this story is for brewery workers but I've seen many people do it for a year and quit.

[Anonymous No.12037144]

>>12037120
pretty standard, typically the only way to move up in a meaningful way as a brewer is to join a giant macrobrewery or move into wine-making, which is what I did

[BeerGuy No.12037161]

>>12037120
Sorry to hear that anon, sounds like you are making the right move getting out of that place. I feel like your experience is unfortunately too common in the industry. Like I mentioned earlier, the huge mass of people who think brewing is a "fun" job and will work for free or nearly no pay drive down the overall value and pay of other brewers in the industry.

I know I am lucky to make the wage I do, but it wasn't always that way for me. My first year doing packaging and cellar work I was making $13/hr, and I would pick up shifts at the taproom sometimes were I would make more than a whole weeks worth of production wages in one nights tips. Even when I first started actually brewing professionally, I made considerably less than I do now. Only by making myself an essential part of the production team and throwing my weight around did I get up to the pay I currently get. I still get no health benefits but all the free beer I want, which is really ironic in my opinion.

Good luck to you in the future wherever your career may take you, and don't forget that just because your not doing it professionally, doesn't mean you can't still brew great beer. I feel like I enjoyed homebrewing so much more when i didn't also brew at work all day.

[BeerGuy No.12037166]

>>12037144
Can confirm that professional winos make the big $$$.

Do you make any natural wines? I don't really have a taste for most wine but a good natural wine is so delicious and complex and some remind me a great sour beer.

[Anonymous No.12037837]

>>12037144

How different is wine industry compared to beer brewing? In both how the work is in practice, pay, chances of advancing in career, etc.

Since wine making seems so much more concentrated on few countries than making beer, how does a foreigner entering say Italy or France or any country that is famous for producing wine compete with that country's people?

[Anonymous No.12037876]

>>12037166
I work in Virginia and for a slew of reasons natural wines are impossible here, but I agree that they are often very tasty. Allegedly some of the more mountainous vineyards are giving it a try, but around here it's all about maximizing yield since even the mediocre/bad wines will sell to the DC yuppies.

>>12037837
Apples and oranges, although a lot of the core stuff is very similar. If you want to get into it, you typically have to do a few rounds of harvest internships, which you can just follow from NZ to AUS to Germany, all the way back to California if you have the connections. Once you get an in as an assistant wine-maker, you'll do most of the actual winemaking while the winemaker and the owner are off sucking each others' dicks.

If you want to go make wine in a historic wine region, you pretty much have to go to a formal wine school, UC Davis and Bordeaux are the two everyone likes to tote around.

[Anonymous No.12037935]

>>12037161

Using my background to try to get in to plumbing and steamfitting. Hopefully you'll be calling me when your glycol pipes screw up or your boiler goes down and you won't care what it costs to fix it. I've appreciated this thread, it almost makes me feel nostalgic...almost

[Anonymous No.12037944]

>>12023868
why does reddit continually use "AMA" instead of 4chan(nel)s established "ask me anything" when all they do is copy and mimic and repeat what we do and say?

[Anonymous No.12037954]

>>12037944
AMA..... is an acronym for Ask Me Anything

[Anonymous No.12037966]

>>12037954
I know. Why do they use it? We don't say that here, we never did, it's only redditors who say it, because they saw all the 4chan "ask me anything" threads.

[Anonymous No.12037972]

>>12025656
He has a chemistry based degree
They don't teach you grammar skills in STEM

[Anonymous No.12037977]

>>12037966
I've seen ask me anything and AMA used interchangeably since I started lurking 4chan in 2008
Calm down bud

[Anonymous No.12038195]

>>12037161

Why don't they just pay you a wage for your work that you can live off of instead of you having to get a second part-time job?

[Anonymous No.12038263]

>>12038195

You already know why.