Knife

[Anonymous No.10783262]

Why would anyone buy a non Japanese knife? The German knives are an absolute joke and the rest of Europe doesn't even come close. The Spaniards have been making knives for millennia yet never managed to produce anything close to a Ningen Kokuhō.

[Anonymous No.10783269]

>>10783262
what is wrong with Victorinox, weeb?

[Anonymous No.10783270]

>>10783262
it's a status symbol, if im just chopping veg at home then what does it matter

[Anonymous No.10783288]

>>10783269
Oh yeah let me just pay $50 for a knife made of gummy awful X50CrMoV15 because a bow tied wife abuser said so

Those things work well because they are ground so thin they don't need to be sharpened

For $5 more you can get a superior Japanese knife made of modern steel that actually cuts something other than costs for the manufacturer

[Anonymous No.10783302]

>>10783270
>chopping veg
poo detected

[Anonymous No.10783308]

>>10783262
a bad chef blames his tools

[Anonymous No.10783311]

who the fuck cares, a properly sharpened decent quality western knife is enough for many of the best chefs in the world.

[Anonymous No.10783328]

>>10783311

The vast majority of renowned chefs are using mid tier J-knives like Mac, Nenohi, and Glestain

Sure the high end ones attract a lot of spergs but there is a reason wusthof is a boomer thing. The knife version of drinking Bud Light

[Anonymous No.10783383]

>>10783328
that's bullshit
I don't know in the US, but here in Europe most chefs still use western style knives

[Anonymous No.10783428]

>>10783383
>western style
Mac, Glestain, and Nenohi are western style knives, anon-kun. Western style, but manufactured to the high standards of a Japanese company

[Anonymous No.10783541]

>>10783428
I wasn't talking about those, but western style knives made by western companies (the usual Victorinox, Wusthof, Zwilling...).
The brands you mentioned are not even available here unless you order them online from abroad. The only japanese knives you can find here are Kai Shun and Global, and even those are not that common among actual chefs.

[Anonymous No.10783574]

>>10783541
That makes sense, those companies are more local to you, and they'd have a stronger brand loyalty. Also it would not surprise me if the EU had crazy tariffs on Japanese knives.

In America there is a big gap between the really low end disposable shit knives, and the very high end unreasonable hand made trophy stuff, and the European brands you mentioned are laughably overpriced.

So Japan, conveniently, has stepped in to fill the void. 20 years ago it was like you said. Shun and Global, and they were obscure niche products and rather expensive.

Now, there are several thriving Japanese cutlery retailers in my city, catering to local professionals and the occasional hobbyist. And the more generalist kitchenware shops and the better restaurant supply stores have a large selection of Japanese knife brands.

[Anonymous No.10784873]

A Wüsthof Classic, Le Cordon Bleu or IKON is good enough for any chef. Gordon Ramsay uses IKONs. Pepin used some $20 shit knife in his famous galantine ballotine video. But even the greatest chefs dont know how to sharpen their knives ... Ramsay has one video up where he rapes his knives with a steel, and attempts to teach other people too and show them "how it's done".

[Anonymous No.10784887]

You'd probably want to find a Retinax 5 model.

[Anonymous No.10784897]

One can get plenty of perfectly fine J klnives for between 100 and 150 bucks. Any of the first four series on this page here is a good buy:
https://japanesechefsknife.com/collections/jck-original-kagayaki
They also sell the Fujiwara FKM and FKH series, those are just as good,

[Anonymous No.10785047]

>>10783262
Because unless you are cutting Daikon, edge geometry and thickness of the knife aren't all that relevant for cutting. The knife doesn't even have to be super sharp. It will still do just fine.

They are however important for robustness. A heavy western style knife (including Mac and Global) can chop frozen food and go through cartilage ... the meme laser will take chunks out of the edge.

[Anonymous No.10785273]

>>10785047
I like how you think cutting through cartilage is on the same level as hacking through a block of frozen meat

[Anonymous No.10785320]

I prefer the look and feel of German knives. Nowt to get het up over.

[Anonymous No.10785397]

>>10783262
Pretty sure this is bait.
As much as I despise Merkel and how she has destroyed Europe in just a few years, German companies in pretty much all sectors have a good reputation for quality. In the knife industry they have an outstanding reputation.
Also, if you want to go really high end, the German knives are cheaper.

[Anonymous No.10785404]

>>10785397
>really high end
>german knives
Pick one

[Anonymous No.10785572]

ZWILLING factory in seki japan

[Anonymous No.10785634]

>>10785572
ZWILLING bought the Miyabi brand in japan, most likely that is their building. Not sure if true but I reeeead once that german knives are very popular among Japanese housewives who are leery of the traditional high maintenance single purpose Japanese knives that need to be handled with skill.

[Anonymous No.10785642]

>not buying American

[Anonymous No.10785669]

>>10783262
>glorious nippon steel folded 10000000 gazilion times over can cut throught tanks like butter
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/16/news/companies/kobe-steel-scandal-what-we-know/index.html

[Anonymous No.10785681]

>>10785634
Yeah because in Japan everyone has a full set of takobikis and unagisakis and usubas, the idea of a 50/50 grind is a radical new concept. The germans definitely are not playing catch-up or anything

[Anonymous No.10785687]

>>10783288
what the fuck is wrong with abusing wives all of the sudden? They're your property, that's what the ring means.

[Anonymous No.10785689]

>>10783262
>not just buying an ikea knife and learning how to sharpen it properly
I like cooking, not cutting up stuff perfectly.

[Anonymous No.10785692]

>>10785687
Unironically based

[Anonymous No.10785744]

I bought the Shun and i can honestly say Im in awe if it every time i use it. Not only is it absolutely beautiful to look at but the ergonomics are incredible. And its an absolute pleasure to cut with. Poorfags stay mad. Tldr, if you really like cooking, spring for a quality knife amd stop making excuses about some soft metal piece of shit is "just fine", trust me its not even close. You're lying to urself

[Anonymous No.10785763]

>>10785689
>sharpening ur knifes
If you’re not buying a new knife whenever you’re boomer knife gets dull ur obviously not gucci like me

[Anonymous No.10785769]

>>10783262
I fucking hate Wusthoff

[Anonymous No.10785774]

>>10785763
my are boomer knife?

[Anonymous No.10785776]

>>10783262
post pics of food you have cooked. lets see those knife skills!

[Anonymous No.10785777]

>>10783288
>superior Japanese knife made of modern steel

I thought the whole thing about nip knives is that they're made of ancient steel that's actually just a super poverty damascus?

[Anonymous No.10785853]

>>10785681
WTF are you rambling on about, I have made it pretty clear that German knives are not popular because of their unique geometry or performance but because of their robustness.

[Anonymous No.10785856]

>>10785777
I think you confused d&d copypasta with real life

There is also no such thing as “gorilla warfare”

[Anonymous No.10785861]

>>10785744
Just what I am always saying to those "hurr durr I can cut all my food with a $3 knife form the Dollar Store just fine" retards. And Shun is not anywhere near to being a true high performance knie.

[Anonymous No.10785863]

>>10785769
they are pretty decent and can do anything 98% as well as a $500 handmade japanese knife can, and a lot more besided (like not break or chip when chopping though a chicken bone). The F. Dick knives, now those suck. Stay away.

[Anonymous No.10785866]

>>10783262
Because japs suck at metallurgy.

[Anonymous No.10785874]

>>10785853
>robustness
You mean they can be used as a hammer without chipping?

That doesn’t make them good cooking knives unless you’re cooking nails

They’re optimized to minimize product complaints caused by user error, because the postwar generation considered cooking to be an obsolete chore, and being able to throw a knife under a heap of plates in the dishwasher was more important than cutting food

Unless you’re trying to break down a chicken with a yanagi you’re not going to have trouble with the robustness of Japanese knives in a cooking context

If you have dumbfuck roommates who leave empty pots on the stove at high heat then the problem is the user not the tool

[Anonymous No.10785879]

>>10785863
>$500 japanese knife
Much like the straw man of the $1500 wine that everyone is drinking every day apparently
>>10785866
Name a single german chef knife made of powdered high speed tool steel let alone anything better than X50CrMoV15

[Anonymous No.10786764]

>>10785861
people who have never had nice things will always trip over themselves to prove that they’re missing out on nothing

[Anonymous No.10786775]

[Anonymous No.10786782]

>>10785874
>You mean they can be used as a hammer without chipping?

Not necissarily a hammer, but they're great for more abusive kitchen tasks like breaking up frozen food, chopping through bones, etc.

>>Unless you’re trying to break down a chicken with a yanagi you’re not going to have trouble with the robustness of Japanese knives in a cooking context
Agreed. But some people need or want that extra durability. Personally I'd rather have a nice thin knife for most things and then a cleaver for the heavy jobs, but some people don't have that luxury and need a jack-of-all-trades.

[Anonymous No.10786787]

>>10786764
Very true.

Though in my experience they usually understand the concept of "nice things", just in a different area. I used to live with a guy who thought it was retarded to spend more than $10 on a kitchen knife, but was happy to spend thousands on his fancy gaming computer.

[Anonymous No.10786854]

Mother is sick of her dull old kitchen knife. She has €40 to spend to rectify the situation. What should I get for her?

[Anonymous No.10786873]

Does knife origin really matter at any level below professional chef? I have some shitty knife from a knife block set I bought on amazon that I sharpened myself, and it cuts fine. You're not a better cook for just buying more expensive tools.

[Anonymous No.10786874]

>>10783262
I bought a German chef's knife (Zwilling Solingen) 16 years ago and have been using it for pretty much all my cooking since. With a bit of care and the occasional sharpening it's working as well as on the first day.
Please tell me what's wrong with it. Are Japanese knife faggots the equivalent to /p/'s gearfags?

[Anonymous No.10786883]

>>10786854
A name brand King, Naniwa, or Suehiro 400/1000 grit combo whetstone

[Anonymous No.10786891]

>>10783262
I use both. Each has it's uses.

[Anonymous No.10786895]

>>10786854


>>10786883
Depends on the knives. Whetstones for a Mum would be an overkill.

[Anonymous No.10786899]

>>10786873
>You're not a better cook for just buying more expensive tools.
No, but nice tools make cooking more enjoyable. You say it cuts just fine ... in my experience most people have never worked with a truly sharp, high performance knife. It might be very difficult to go back to your old knife that you used to feel "cut just fine" after that.

[Anonymous No.10786907]

>>10786899
but anon, cooking is a chore to be endured to save NEETbux for muh vidya

[Anonymous No.10787110]

>>10786874
>Zwilling Solingen

This little guy is my friend for life, use it all the time.

[Anonymous No.10787127]

>>10783262
I distrust the nips.

[Anonymous No.10787133]

>>10786891
Those aren't non-slip shoes.

[Anonymous No.10787138]

>>10786907
>If you don't buy expensive toys to massage your ego like me, you must not actually like cooking

[Anonymous No.10787145]

>>10787138
>if you don’t wallow in piss bottles and cum soaked dirty socks, you’re an egomaniac who does it for attention

[Anonymous No.10787198]

Just got a notice from the cops here that they'll be seeing me soon about my attempt to import this illegal knife I bought on eBay.
It was to be a cheap camping backup because my brother always forgets his.
I live in Denmark and I have no fucking clue what's illegal about this thing.
Feeling nervous, lads.

[Anonymous No.10787203]

>>10787133
No they are not lol

[Anonymous No.10787211]

>>10786899
this. and there's also the matter of how often you have to sharpen. A nice knife holds its edge better, requiring sharpening far less frequently.

[Anonymous No.10787217]

>>10785861
I bought it at first for the incredible craftsmanship but I have to tell you the thing cuts like a razorblade and they have free lifetime sharpening which i think is cool too
>>10786764
>>10786787
That's basically always the essence of these threads. No so subtle jealousy because of ignorance or because they simply are too cheap to buy a quality knife. Their loss desu.

also recommend more nice knives. My first was a Global 7inch santoku which I still like but it pales to the shun. What are some more sexy knives?

[Anonymous No.10787219]

>>10787198
Seriously? I just bought a replacement for my field knife that was stolen when I went camping.

Good luck, anon.

[Anonymous No.10787238]

>>10787198
that's pretty funny if true

[Anonymous No.10787260]

>>10787219
Thanks
>>10787238
It's not funny when it happens to me, dude.
I really don't need this in my life right now and I still have no damn idea what I've even done wrong.
They didn't hassle me over the Chinese cleaver I ordered.

[Anonymous No.10787280]

>>10784873
what's the right way to sharpen? With a whetstone?

[Anonymous No.10787288]

>>10787260
Maybe you just have to pay tax on it or something?

I own an online business. I constantly get complaints from customers in Europe bitching about how they have to go to the post office to pay import tax on their orders. Could it perhaps be a tax issue? I have family in Denmark and none of them have ever mentioned anything resembling a knife ban.

[Anonymous No.10787325]

(image is not mine, but my western knives are sharpened at a similar angle)

I know this is a troll thread... but here's perspective from a traditional Japanese cook.

Every traditional Japanese cook in Tokyo from every discipline, whether it's nihonryouri ("jack of all trades" chef), tempura, sushi, soba, unagi -- every single one owns at least 1 double-edged, stainless steel knife. Here are the reasons why:

1. Less maintenance. Especially if you're working in a small restaurant, you're going to have less time to sharpen and polish knives. It takes less effort to use a 8000+ grit to "hone" a gyuto everyday, than it is to do the same with a yanagi.

2. Versatility. There are a few Japanese techniques that can only be done with a single-edged knife, but for the majority of tasks, a gyuto or sujihiki is sufficient. This is even more true for cooks that customize their knife by sharpening it at a "Japanese angle" of 10 degrees or less, at an 8:2 ratio.

Check out this page for a real life example of a traditional cook in Tokyo using a sujihiki for a variety of tasks:

https://temaeitamae.jp/top/t4/0.html

Or check out this video where a Japanese cook (in the west) is using a gyuto to effortlessly fillet a salmon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIneI9-wOuI

3. Some tasks can ONLY be done with a double edged knife. Cutting hard items like kabocha and portioning frozen loins are 2 examples. 20-30 years ago, kabocha might have been cut with a nakiri, but in my years of working in Japanese kitchens, I have never seen a single cook own a nakiri (it's considered a "housewife's knife).

The only kinds of artisans or shokunin I know that would not use a gyuto would be fish mongers in Tsukiji (whom almost exclusively use deba or the unwieldy tuna knives), high specialized sushi chefs that serve ~30 customers a day, or anyone trained in kaiseki cuisine with Kyoto lineage.

[Anonymous No.10787338]

>>10787260
Could they be annoyed with you if the sender wasn't truthful about the package contents?

[Anonymous No.10787340]

>>10787288
Import tax is a standard issue that isn't handled like a legal case.
They specified the Danish Knife Law, which is a real thing, but didn't specify which damn part that little thing is supposed to have broken.
Only half-decent part of it I can make out is that throwing knives are illegal, but this isn't a throwing knife and I seriously can't find any documentation online of someone trying to throw one of them, despite there being plenty of reviews etc. of this model.
Sorry to derail the thread. I guess I'm just angry and nervous. Carry on.

[Anonymous No.10787388]

>>10787325
I've got a question you might be able to help with.

What kinds of knives do Japanese butchers or chefs use when breaking down meat, i.e. pork or beef? We hear a lot about the various specialized knives for fish and so on, but what would be the Japanese equivalent of pic related be? In the west this sort of knife is very common; it's called a cimiter and the blade is usually quite long, 250-300mm, maybe more.

[Anonymous No.10787406]

>>10787325
Are you a westerner who trained in Japan? How did you end up there?

[Anonymous No.10787413]

>>10785687
lmao

[Anonymous No.10787474]

>>10787388

I can only speak for Kanto (eastern Japan, Tokyo influenced), but most butchers that handle red meat use carbon steel Masahiro or Sugimoto knives. Some butchers use a honing steel, some don't.

Here are the knives they would typically use

https://www.ehamono.com/shopbrand/ct98/

I don't have too much knowledge regarding their discipline beyond that. I have no idea how or with what knives a butcher in Hyogo would break down an entire cow. They do have interesting knives, though, like pic related is used specifically to slice open intestine.

Many butchers who handle Wagyu (especially the higher tier Wagyu such as Matsuzaka or Kobe) are traditionally trained, so they tend not to use a steel. In fact, their knives are used only for light trimming, since Japanese wagyu is regulated by law to have a certain % of red meat protein that does not need to be trimmed. Like commercial Western chefs, almost all of the work is done by slicers.

>>10787406

I was born in the states, but I have Japanese heritage.

[Anonymous No.10787488]

>>10787474
Thanks, I was mostly interested in what the butchers use when breaking down a whole carcass into smaller cuts, not what the cooks themselves would use.

The reason I ask is that I hunt a lot, and I also buy whole hogs sometimes from small family farms because the meat is so much better than supermarket factory-farmed stuff. I'm always trying to learn more about breaking the meat down to improve my own skills.

>>sugimoto
they make some excellent knives. I own three of their Chinese knives, a no. 6, 11, and 22.

[Anonymous No.10787509]

>>10787488

I actually did a lot of hiking in Japan, and this is a common hunting knife used among the マタギ (hunter).

Obviously it's not nearly as useful as a regular combat knife to most non-Japanese hunters... I thought it might be an interesting bit of info.

[Anonymous No.10787538]

>>10787509
I read about those on Watanabe Blade's website. The hollow handle socket is a neat idea, though I wonder how often hunters encounter bears?

I do carry a "combat" sort of knife when I go hunting, but it's really more of a general purpose tool than anything else. I don't cut meat with it, I use it for general tasks. The only reason why it's a "combat" knife is that military knives are reasonably priced and extremely durable since they have to pass all the army's testing. If you want a reasonably priced knife that you know you can abuse without much risk buying a mil spec one is a good move.

I usually don't have to do much butchery in the field; when I do I usually bring a skinning knife (folding), a victorinox flexible boning knife, and pic related.

[Anonymous No.10787558]

>>10787538

I encountered 3 boars on my 30~ or so times I went deep into the mountains, EVEN with a bear bell... I almost got knocked off a ledge one time! But I've never seen a bear myself -- when a hiker does encounter a bear, it becomes local news.

Which state do you hunt in, or which country if you're not in the states?

[Anonymous No.10787559]

>>10787198
Just google for "Izula Kniv site:dk"

Those knives are being sold in Denmark.

[Anonymous No.10787689]

>>10786787
>I used to live with a guy who thought it was retarded to spend more than $10 on a kitchen knife, but was happy to spend thousands on his fancy gaming computer.
jesus

he's probably going to die of colon cancer at 38

[Anonymous No.10787696]

>>10787559
Don't know why I didn't think of that.
This will help my defense a lot. Thanks man, I think you seriously just pulled me out of some deep shit.

[Anonymous No.10787700]

>>10786891
>I have both
but you only posted the Japanese ones?

[Anonymous No.10787713]

>>10786891

I have never seen sushi cook get as much use out of a 関孫六 as you did.

[Anonymous No.10787824]

>>10787558
>Which state do you hunt in
Mainly Texas (where I live) but I've hunted in a few other states too.

[Anonymous No.10787839]

>>10785856

[Anonymous No.10787845]

>>10783262
stinking weeb

[Anonymous No.10787947]

>>10786873
knife origin doesn't matter at all

the alloy, the heat treatment, and geometry matter a great deal

unsurprisingly, Japan does those better than Germany. some might say it's to the point of overkill. for most people a knife is a one-time purchase, so a little overkill seems perfectly reasonable considering it's basically the same price anyway

[Anonymous No.10787974]

As a plebeian who uses knives bought from the local supermarket, how do I start to up my game?

[Anonymous No.10788034]

>>10787974
Learn to sharpen what you have. First and most important step.

Once you have that down you might buy a new knife or knives, but it's hard to give suggestions without knowing what kind of cooking you do and what your budget is.

[Anonymous No.10788044]

>>10787974
first invest in good stones (you can get by with cheaper ones but good stones make sharpening a lot more fun)

500-1000-6000 is a good progression, you don't really need to go higher. you also want a lapping plate, a strop is highly recommended

once your supermarket knives are passing the hanging hair test, buy some better knives

fujiwara FKH is a good starter, takes a great edge without a lot of work, holds it decently well, F&F is not amazing but it's cheap enough to get your feet wet in the world of "good" knives until you have a better idea of what you really want

[Anonymous No.10788372]

>>10787974

Buy decent budget commercial grade knife (the NSF approved plastic handle kind(vick,dick,dex ect..) of the type you want - I'll just assume a classic western chef's.

Next step is get a budget stone(s) and a strop. Do not worry about grits too much. If you can't hold a consistent angle on a 800 grit Norton you are not really going to get a good edge on a 30K Shapton glass or anything else.

Next step is just practice and muscle memory.

Oh, and the biggest tip I have ever gotten in knife sharpening(double bevel Western style knives) is do not worry too much about something like - this knife is sharpened to 18 degrees on each side. You will have a really sharp knife if one side is 16 and the other is 19 as long as the angle is kept consistent and ground evenly.

[Anonymous No.10788433]

>>10788372
>If you can't hold a consistent angle on a 800 grit Norton you are not really going to get a good edge on a 30K Shapton glass or anything else.

it's rare to see sane people talking about sharpening, usually it's stupid nonsense like "start with a 4000 grit stone until you're an expert, and only then are you allowed to use a lower grit"

[Anonymous No.10788492]

>>10788433
>it's rare to see sane people talking about sharpening

Well I am just a pragmatic meat cutter who holds a knife in my hand 8hrs a day and uses a slab of industrial grade electrical insulating ceramic tile given to me 20 yrs ago to keep my knives sharp.

I do not have the luxury of 8000grit weaboo warriors and their safe queen knives.

[Anonymous No.10788524]

My wiltshire knives have done me good the past 10 years.

[Anonymous No.10788581]

>>10788492
Do you ever think it would be cool to get into halal or kosher slaughtering? Imagine if t was your job to slit 2000 throats a day. There’s something really appealing about that. I realize that may tend to make me sound like a psychopath but whatever

[Anonymous No.10788618]

>>10788581
Umm, we kill and de-bone 1000 pigs a week where I work.

That said, I have looked into traditional Orthodox Jewish slaughter knives-that I would use for nothing more than de-hairing pigs' asses- just so I can see a star of david on pig ass.

[Anonymous No.10788687]

>>10788618
But do you kill all of them personally, with a knife to the jugular?

[Anonymous No.10788719]

>>10788492

Depending on the context, an 8000 grit stone is merely "pragmatic."

Some cooks I know with Kyoto lineage exclusively use natural stones.

I use an 8000 artificial stone on a daily basis, and so do most cooks at traditional restaurants in Japan. If you work at the counter, you're busy also required to keep a mirror post. I also know of ethnic cooks who sharpen their cleaver on a slab of concrete outside their back door. And I know fish mongerers in Tsukiji who only use a 1000 grit stones, since they can go through 100+kg of fish in a day.

My point is that not all of the cooks who use 8000+ grit stones are unpragmatic "queens," or are doing it out of luxury.

[Anonymous No.10788727]

>>10788719

Sorry, cellphone typo, meant to type mirror finish.

[Anonymous No.10788729]

>>10788687
They get shocked first, then throats slit. And yes, done the deed.

Bacon doesn't grow on a tree.

[Anonymous No.10788740]

>>10785687
mental abuse is the most fun

[Anonymous No.10788742]

Does World Market sell good knives? I'm about to go because I need to buy new shit for my new apt

[Anonymous No.10788754]

>>10788740
>gaslighting your wife
try it

[Anonymous No.10788766]

>>10788719
>My point is that not all of the cooks who use 8000+ grit stones are unpragmatic "queens," or are doing it out of luxury.


I agree. I understand the usefulness of a really fine honed edge on quality steel/knives. with out a doubt, those things are way scary sharp and super practical for their applications.

But you are talking about a niche, not the norm.

For most practical applications of what a knife is used for in a kitchen(or even most commercial senses) a 1000-2000 grit range is sharp enough.

Most people are not working in a Japanese restaurant. Most people are not chefs. Most people do not know how to sharpen a knife.

[Anonymous No.10788785]

>>10786891

Cutting board is dirty
afraid of food poisoning

[Anonymous No.10788798]

>>10788729
I didn’t ask you if you’ve “done it”

I asked you if you personally kill all 1000 pigs

My boss has millions of dollars in his portfolio, that money isn’t mine though

[Anonymous No.10788843]

>>10788798
>I asked you if you personally kill all 1000 pigs

No. Jobs can switch daily. But, yes, I kill and slit throats of pigs.

And it really isnt personal. There are several people from the USDA inspectors to the workers involved in the slaughter. The robotic nature of it is almost scary.

[Anonymous No.10788857]

>>10787198
>Import
You are so fucking retarded holy fucking shit
T. Dane