What is best in wine, /ck/?

[Anonymous No.10629678]

>To crush whole clusters. See the juice driven before you. And to hear the lamentations of the triggered beerfags.

Also, wine general

[Anonymous No.10629696]

>>10629678
I don’t drink wine because I am not a homosexual or a roastie

[Anonymous No.10629710]

>>10629696
what you are is a permavirgin.

[Anonymous No.10629814]

>>10629678
Can someone make a beginners infographic? Or just recommend me some bottles to try out. I have very basic knowledge of the main types (merlot, sauv blanc, chardonnay, etc.) and have tried a few malbecs. I never really know where to start

[Anonymous No.10629859]

>>10629814
The best way to learn about wine is to drink european wines with established AOC/DOC/DOPG/etc

The reason for this is that the characteristics of grapes are strongly affected by the way they are turned into wine, and in most new world appellations the rules are "anything goes" hence why you have stuff labeled with a varietal name that may have large amounts of another grape mixed in, and you have no idea if they put it through malo, or blasted it with oak, or whatever

Single-varietal wines may therefore appear to be less common in europe than they appear in America, but this is only an illusion since what you may think is "pinot noir" or "cabernet sauvignon" is really 25% something else entirely

Most of the stuff about "terroir" is usually over-attributed to microclimates and soil whereas it's really mostly coming from post-harvest actions. And that's where PDO laws help you. You can look up what's permitted and what's traditional under a certain label, and you can therefore learn to associate standard taste descriptions with your own personal sense experiences. This is next to impossible when tasting American wines because for the most part the labeling is wrong, other than with a select few wineries like Bonny Doon. This permissiveness is very good for the wineries' profit margins, and very bad for people who care about wine

tl;dr avoid American drink European

[Anonymous No.10629871]

>>10629859
Aight I'll snag some French and Spanish shit next time. What about south America? Any countries worth investing some money in?

[Anonymous No.10629890]

>>10629678
wine is just ok. Only worth drinking if someone else already bought it and offered it to you. There are so many far superior alternatives available to waste time with what is essentially juice for old white ladies

[Anonymous No.10629892]

>>10629890
then why don’t suggest them instead of being a vague faggot?

[Anonymous No.10629897]

>>10629859
>with established AOC/DOC/DOPG/etc
Reminder that arbitrarily limiting production to politically chosen people to artificially reduce competition is anti-consumer an bad for quality in general

[Anonymous No.10629899]

>>10629892
because this thread is about wine, not alternatives to wine

[Anonymous No.10629907]

>>10629871
Chile does a mean knockoff of the Bordeaux style although on the cheaper end it leans overly green and stemmy probably due to colder climates. Stick to the stuff made by French expats. They have a few decent "modern" wines too, Clos des Fous for instance. Otherwise South America is a wasteland of jug wine and mediocre "house wines" for corner gastropubs, meant for serving out of a mason jar. Argentina is to be avoided if at all possible.

Also while Spain is a value leader their DOCs can be quite a bit more permissive and in any case are often much newer and less documented than the wines of France or Italy. Stick to the most famous producers of Spain (La Rioja Alta, CVNE, Lopez de Heredia, Muga, Pesquera, Vega Sicilia, etc) and you're good.

[Anonymous No.10629911]

>>10629897
>anti-consumer
You mean like making it legal to literally lie to people? Yeah that sounds great, thank god for Murica Freedom Eagle #1

[Anonymous No.10629917]

>>10629911
limiting competition is textbook anti-consumer regulation, and saying you aren't allowed to literally lie is entirely unrelated to the concept we are discussing

[Anonymous No.10629922]

>>10629907
Thanks for the help m8

[Anonymous No.10629924]

>>10629917
Truth in labeling is about as pro-consumer as it gets, brainlet. You make it sound like you're not allowed to produce wine in Europe unless you're part of a PDO. Ever heard of super tuscans? Obviously not, educate yourself.

[Anonymous No.10629954]

>>10629924
>Truth in labeling is about as pro-consumer as it gets, brainlet
It definitely is, but also almost entirely unrelated to this discussion

>You make it sound like you're not allowed to produce wine in Europe unless you're part of a PDO
You are not allowed to market certain styles of wine unless you are in a politically connected class

[Anonymous No.10629958]

>>10629917
When he says "established AOC/DOC/DOPG" he means clearly labelled as what it is, not "established" as a regional monopoly by law

[Anonymous No.10629968]

>>10629958
>not "established" as a regional monopoly by law
thats precisely what those regulations are though

I am very much not against clear labeling

[Anonymous No.10629973]

>>10629968
"jamaican rum must be produced in jamaica"
fucken.... tyranny

[Anonymous No.10629987]

>>10629954
It *is* the discussion, maybe you confused this thread for the one open in your other tab on /pol/ or /int/? Anon asked a good way to learn about wine, and it was suggested he initially stick to wines where the words on the label can be at least somewhat taken as assurance of a certain kind of content. Later, if he wants, he can try the "anything goes" styles of North America. Some of them can be quite good. Almost none of them can be predicted in any way, you simply have to pop, pour, and drink.
>You are not allowed to market certain styles of wine unless you are in a politically connected class
I'm sure anyone could cherry pick some extreme cases where you could find a producer was barred from selling a wine for reasons that might seem unfair, but as a general rule, you can make what you want and sell it, but you can only actually claim PDO status if you qualify for PDO status. Whining that the mean political grape jews barred me from selling my random Albanian grpes as DOCG Barolo isn't going to gain any sympathy from fans of barolo wine.

[Anonymous No.10629989]

>>10629973
Do you honestly believe that analogy is at all what these regulations are about. All food sold in both America and the EU is labeled with the country of origin

[Anonymous No.10629995]

>>10629989
See
>>10629911

[Anonymous No.10630018]

>>10629987
>PDO status. Whining that the mean political grape jews barred me from selling my random Albanian grpes as DOCG Barolo isn't going to gain any sympathy from fans of barolo wine.
People who like good wine would all agree that wine should be sold and marketed based on what it is, not whether bureaucrats approved people in a specific region to make it.
I am definitely not saying people should be able to call their wine a style it doesn't adhere to, simply that EU policies on geographical origins are a really shitty, and anti-consumer way to deal with this problem. Most of which are blatantly designed as protectionist policies with quality being an afterthought

[Anonymous No.10630020]

>>10629987
This.

I'm all for capitalism, but shilling against regulation in a way that legitimately reduces product readability is absurd

>Let's just remove all region labels and label all wine brands with "Wine" and a brand serial number so the consumer can truly decide which one is best

[Anonymous No.10630039]

>>10629678
I wish I could drink wine. I get near severe reflux 10 minutes after drinking it, noticed it 5 years ago, it happens more/worse with reds.

Am i allergy or hyper-sensitive to tannin? it has to be a compound unique to wine because i drink beer and liquor every week with no problem.

[Anonymous No.10630042]

>>10630018
Huh? In the first place, what do you mean by "what it is"? The best guess I can come up with is that you think there are like, armed gangs roving around the European wine regions, assaulting people for growing grapes with the intent of making wines without kowtowing to the mean grape jews.

I assume you've looked up Super Tuscan by now, and you've adequately worked out that part in your head? Good, now look up "declassifed wine", hopefully that clears up a lot of the confusion on your part. These designations are opt-in, you use them when you want to, but you are free to abandon them if they aren't in line with your intentions.

[Anonymous No.10630052]

>>10630042
What are you even talking about? Gangs and jews? What does this have to do with anything? Are these some sort of /pol/ meme that you think I should be familiar with?

>These designations are opt-in, you use them when you want to, but you are free to abandon them if they aren't in line with your intentions.
But most importantly and problematically most people are simply not allowed to use them regardless of the quality and nature of their product

[Anonymous No.10630073]

>>10630052
>What are you even talking about?
I'm trying to speak your language here. You keep trying to spin truth in labeling as though it were some kind of shadowy (((conspiracy))) of the sort one might find on /pol/. I'd like to help you understand how the real world works - if not you, then at least those reading this thread.

>most people are simply not allowed to use them regardless of the quality and nature of their product
Well, yeah. Why should they? I think Bonny Doon makes some tasty wines and I don't expect them to try and trick me by claiming to actually be located in Pomerol or Mosel or the Langhe, but supposing they did, I see no reason why this should be tolerated, regardless of how good their wine is. Nor should they be able to fraudulently use reserved PDO terminology so as to imply something about their wine that would be factually wrong.

[Anonymous No.10630089]

>>10630052
Provides clear labeling but comes with fucky regulations like production ceilings and red tape meant to boost price that're not good for consumers

The current implementation is flawed, but again, politics aside, for OP's question, european wines would be the go-to for tasting

[Anonymous No.10630106]

>>10630039
I've heard from several people that red wine gives them reflux

"Another review found that red and white wine both increase the amount of acid produced in your stomach. This puts you at risk for worsening reflux"

So you probably have acid reflux to some degree but wine exacerbates it

[Anonymous No.10630201]

>>10630106
yeah i do have mild reflux/gut issues so this isn't surprising. its a shame because i work in a bar and i know i am missing out on a whole world of bartending. I can only take small sips just to be able to describe and recommend to customers but even then its a tossup if i'll doubleover with a searing chest.

[Anonymous No.10630212]

>>10630073
>I'm trying to speak your language here
By using really fucking weird language that I have never even implied?
>You keep trying to spin truth in labeling
It is you who is trying to spin outdated protectionist economic policies as "truth in labeling"
>Well, yeah. Why should they?
No on should have special rights just because they are politically well connected, or where they happen to live and work

Also, you keep repeating this concept that these regulations are about preventing "tricking people into thinking something is from where it isn't" when that is very obviously not what any of this is about. All of these countries have laws that say products must be marked with their place of origin and that marketing cannot outright lie. That is entirely outside the scope of the regulations we are discussing

[Anonymous No.10630248]

>>10630212
At first it looked like you just didn't understand how labeling rules worked. It's becoming increasingly clear from your intellectual dishonesty that you're simply trying to win this argument by attrition, by repeatedly insisting that what false is true, and what's true is false.

What's your stake in this? No respectable new world winemaker opposes truth in labeling because their target market knows right from wrong. It's only the shady fuckers cranking out fake "burgundy" made from bulk zinfandel that want to be able to lie their faces off with full impunity. So I have to assume you work for Carlo Rossi or some such place.

[Anonymous No.10630277]

>>10630248
>What's your stake in this
I don't make wine commercially, my interest is as consumer who likes being able to have good things, and dislikes anti-consumer regulation in any industry

Anti-consumer regulations are almost always supported by the industry, they create undue burdens on new people starting up and are therefore beneficial to the industry insiders

Again, I think wine style standards should exist, and should be based on the quality and nature of the product, not politics. I am very much not advocating for winemakers to have the ability to lie about what they are selling. I think regulations should be written to be pro-consumer, not pro-industry or protectionist

[Anonymous No.10630316]

>>10630277
Unregulated and unlabeled bulk swill or regional monopolies? What a choice!

[Anonymous No.10630324]

>>10630277
> I think regulations should be written to be pro-consumer, not pro-industry
PDO rules are both pro-consumer and pro-industry. The consumer wants some assurance that the bottle contains what it says it contains. The producer wants some assurance that hucksters will not be able to easily damage their reputation by appropriating a designation that the huckster doesn't qualify for.

As we've established, you've made multiple, patently false claims that have been refuted:

1. That all countries forbid fraudulent labeling (see >>10629911)
2. That innovative wine makers in consumer-friendly countries are unable to produce wine without the permission of PDO officials (see >>10629987, >>10629924)
3. That makers of high quality wines are unable to sell wines without PDO status (see >>10629924, >>10630073)

Nobody is claiming that these systems are perfect, but they are definitely better for learning about wine than the alternative "anything goes" system where it's basically trial and error for the consumer.

[Anonymous No.10630348]

>>10630277
There are plenty of classifications that were never intended to be simply a standard of quality, but to maintain a lineage and tradition. The notion of having a classification that applies to all wines of a certain quality is somewhat intractable; it'd yield way more bitching than it'd alleviate over where exactly to draw the line between different tiers. The existing arbitrary, non-democratic, and "anti-consumer" system of classification is far more helpful to a wine novice looking to learn the landscape, because in learning and understanding that system, you need to learn a decent chunk of the full history and culture of european wine.

[Anonymous No.10630396]

>>10630324
>PDO rules are both pro-consumer and pro-industry
You can keep saying this, but any law that limits competition is inherently anti-consumer

>The consumer wants some assurance that the bottle contains what it says it contains
How many times do I have to repeat that I am not against quality standards? Literally my entire argument has been that regulations should specifically be based on quality and nature rather than politics, never have I even implied that I think quality should not be a factor.
Are you intentionally trying to misrepresent what I am saying?

>The producer wants some assurance that hucksters will not be able to easily damage their reputation
And meanwhile also that someone can't come around and make their product better and cheaper so they can pad their profit margin

>That all countries forbid fraudulent labeling
Do you honestly believe using terms in the english language that are understood to mean a style is dishonest? A wine being labeled as Burgundy is 100% meant as a style guideline, not just something that is literally made there, thats simply not how the word is understood. Just like when I go to the butcher shop and buy some polish sausage I do not believe it is literally imported from Poland, simply made in a style associated with Poland

> innovative wine makers in consumer-friendly countries are unable to produce wine without the permission of PDO
It very much does mean that if you choose to make a wine in a style that happens to be protected by the EU you cannot legally market it as such in the EU

>That makers of high quality wines are unable to sell wines without PDO status
You do not need to be utterly banned from making wine for the regulations to be harmful to you and consumers

To clarify, I am not taking issue with the idea that the concept could potentially be useful for the guy trying to learn about it, just the fact that the system has been so ill conceived

[Anonymous No.10630524]

>>10630396
>any law that limits competition is inherently anti-consumer
There are many laws that inhibit "competition" in favor of consumers. Laws against lies, laws that require companies to honor the terms of sale or warranties promised, and so on. "Competition" on its own is only conditionally good - some competitive activity can be abusive, and such abuses should be stopped.
>How many times do I have to repeat that I am not against quality standards?
You can repeat, and yet, your overall argument has been against standards, and in favor of "anything goes"
>And meanwhile also that someone can't come around and make their product better and cheaper so they can pad their profit margin
I don't think anyone with a working tongue would call Carlo Rossi fake burgundy "better", but it certainly is cheaper.
>A wine being labeled as Burgundy is 100% meant as a style guideline, not just something that is literally made there, thats simply not how the word is understood.
"Burgundian style" is something reasonable people can disagree on. Just saying "burgundy" is a lie, and should not be allowed.
>Just like when I go to the butcher shop and buy some polish sausage I do not believe it is literally imported from Poland, simply made in a style associated with Poland
That's not a very good analogy because meat is a perishable good, a consumer who doesn't know much about what people eat in Poland is unlikely to assume that the raw meat literally came from a pig that lived and died in Poland. Nevertheless, if your butcher is randomly deciding to call something "polish sausage" and it bears no resemblance to sausages eaten in Poland, the consumer is getting a distorted notion about Polish food
>if you choose to make a wine in a style that happens to be protected by the EU you cannot legally market it as such in the EU
That's a good thing. If it's a good wine that people want, people will buy it. If there's enough people making it in that other area, a new PDO can be formed.

[Anonymous No.10630667]

>>10630524
>There are many laws that inhibit "competition" in favor of consumers. Laws against lies, laws that require companies to honor the terms of sale or warranties promised, and so on
None of those are examples of anti-competitive laws. Anti-competitive laws regulate who can do something, laws limiting the number of people who can compete in a market
>"Competition" on its own is only conditionally good
No, competition is inherently good for consumers, you are really stretching the concept of competition here
>your overall argument has been against standards, and in favor of "anything goes"
No it has not, it has rather clearly been against a current set of standards set by the EU. It very much has not been against the concept of standards in general no matter how much you want to conflate the two
>I don't think anyone with a working tongue would call Carlo Rossi fake burgundy "better"
Ok sure, but one specific brand is irrelevant. The idea of the law, and the reason it is anti-competitive is because it doesn't allow anyone else to make things better which artificially reduces selection and increases costs to the consumer
>Just saying "burgundy" is a lie, and should not be allowed.
Saying this wine is from Burgundy would be a lie, and is very obviously not what they are doing, or even trying to do.
What about an example like cheddar? Do you think a cheese should literally be made in the caves of cheddar to call itself such, and anyone making a cheese they call cheddar is being dishonest?
>not a very good analogy because meat is a perishable good
The fuck does that matter at all? These regulations are legitimate for long lived products and not for perishable ones? What a silly dichotomy

[Anonymous No.10630700]

>>10630667
>it’s only competition when it’s the kind I like
That’s not how economics works dude. Anything that a company can do to give itself an edge over another in the same market is a competitive advantage, whether you consider it “nice” or not. You’re talking like you think regulations were invented to destroy commerce rather than balancing the playing field to minimize abuse.

I’m on mobile now, I’ll reply to the rest when I have a keyboard again

[Anonymous No.10630706]

>>10630524
>to call something "polish sausage" and it bears no resemblance to sausages eaten in Poland
A bit off topic, but keep in mind that many terms entered the English language years ago and may not actually resemble conditions in the modern place they were named in reference to, and further, a lot of times they start based on an immigrant community and have nothing to do with the food that is actually consumed in that place, such as the Cuban sandwich invented in Miami by people formerly from Cuba.

people like to think of a foreign places's cuisine as a static thing but it very much is not, just look at what an amazingly high percent of Euro dishes are based on New World crops, entirely foreign to traditional European cuisine

>That's a good thing. If it's a good wine that people want, people will buy it
If they can find it, which is a lot harder to do if you cannot call your wine what it is. The whole idea is these laws put undue, artificial burden on producers who are not given these antiquated, almost feudal rights

[Anonymous No.10630721]

>>10629678
has anyone tried green wine? I have had it only once so far, and it was over a decade ago. Still my favorite wine to this day. I'm pissed because I cant remember the vineyard so the chances of finding it again are slim.

[Anonymous No.10630724]

>>10629710
>what you are is a permavirgin

WELL ACTUALLY, IT'S CALLED BEING AN INCEL. THEY DON'T DRINK WINE BECAUSE THEY STILL BELEIVE THAT 'JUST BEING YOURSELF' MEANS LITRALLY NEVER TRYING NEW THINGS. AND THEY EXPECT THAT THIS NO CHANGE POLICY WILL ATTRACT A MATE. FUCKING IDIOTS IS WHAT THEY ARE. WE NEED A NEW PLAGUE.

[Anonymous No.10630730]

>>10630700
Anti-competitive laws limit who can do what. If the laws effect everyone equally they are not anti-competitive. Quality standards that all must adhere to are not anti-competitive. You are seemingly intentionally misinterpreting this concept to broaden it to things that are obviously bad, and also obviously not part of the concept

>ou’re talking like you think regulations were invented to destroy commerce rather than balancing the playing field to minimize abuse.

A huge portion of the regulatory burden on any industry in the EU and America is designed by insiders. Very, very few are designed to help competition. Thats an incredibly naive view of how government works on your part

[Anonymous No.10630736]

>>10630724
Incels are far more likely to enjoy wine than normie dudes

[Anonymous No.10630751]

>>10629859
>in most new world appellations the rules are "anything goes" hence why you have stuff labeled with a varietal name that may have large amounts of another grape mixed in

Gr8 B8 m8. I R8 8.8

[Anonymous No.10630786]

I was watching Frasier the same time I started drinking. I was living with my alcoholic brother, and I'd bring a bottle of wine back, and if I didn't finish it, he would.

Cheap red wine is great for a lazy day.

[Anonymous No.10630808]

>>10629907
>Stick to the most famous producers of Spain (La Rioja Alta, CVNE, Lopez de Heredia, Muga, Pesquera, Vega Sicilia, etc) and you're good.

This is just straight-up, fully biased shill talk. Ignore this poster and drink what you like.

If the wine tastes good to you, note the grape varietal(s) that were used to make it and look for more wines of the same type next time you shop. Getting "into" wine requires that you learn what different types of wine taste like. That means you might want to do some reading and/or keep a journal of what you taste.

If you want a crash-course in wine, watch "Somm" and "Somm: Into the Bottle" on the Netflix. They give an excellent overview and summary of the history and technical knowledge of wine making.

[Anonymous No.10630833]

>>10629911
Is there supposed to be something deceitful in that image? Because there is literally nothing wrong with it. If you buy one of those jugs, then you are buying a jug of Burgundy made by Carlo Rossi. Nothing deceitful at all, unless you think that using Carlo Rossi's name is deceitful because he isn't personally stomping the grapes. It's just a brand name, get over yourself.

[Anonymous No.10630871]

>>10630524
>Just saying "burgundy" is a lie

Oh, I see, you're a pedantic autist. Got it.

[Anonymous No.10630925]

>>10630524
Do you not understand country of origin labeling, or are you being intentionally obtuse?

A country of origin label tells a consumer whether the Burgundy was made in Canada, France, Spain, or somewhere else. The same applies to the Polish sausage example: the country of origin label tells a consumer if the product was imported or not.

Your entire argument seems to boil down to the idea that producers should have to append the word "style" onto their label if their product is not literally produced in the region whose name denotes the style. That's pedantic as fuck and becomes full blown autism when you consider that country of origin labeling already is mandated.

Perfect example: I bought two different Parmesan cheeses because I wanted to compare the products. Thanks to country of origin labeling, I was able to buy two equivalently aged cheeses from two different places: one from Italy and one from Wisconsin. See how that works? Because I'm not a mook, I knew exactly what I was getting and made an informed choice; no shill-friendly protectionist autism necessary.

[Anonymous No.10630938]

>>10630925
>WIDF is against honesty
figures

[Anonymous No.10631075]

>>10630938
What does any of this have to do with honesty?
Legally disallowing someone from calling their product what it is is the only dishonest thin here

[Anonymous No.10631094]

>>10631075
>pasteurized process cheese food from Beloit, USA is raw milk 24 month aged actual cheese from Parma, Italy
Neato, you should alert CERN, they accidentally punched a hole in the universe

[Anonymous No.10631103]

>>10630808
At what point did I suggest they would like any of those wines?

[Anonymous No.10631123]

>>10631094
Note you already cannot label process cheese as simply cheese, that has nothing to do with the issue

Also, whether cheese uses pasteurized milk is also indicated on labeling, another entirely unrelated concept. Also, implying that pasteurization is somehow inherently bad is dumb

The idea that you can only make a product that is recognizably parmesan in the area of Parma is super fucking silly

[Anonymous No.10631165]

>>10630721
Vinho verde? Its pretty common and not just one vineyard, you can get it at the grocery store.

[Anonymous No.10631177]

>>10631123
It sounds to me like you’re arguing that «recognisably parmesan» is a function of what I’m permitted to say to you, the consumer. It would appear neither manufacturing process nor ingredients, let alone flavour, would have much to do with it.

[Anonymous No.10631191]

>>10631177
You lost me here

[Anonymous No.10631201]

>>10631123
>Also, implying that pasteurization is somehow inherently bad is dumb
I don't think anyone said it was "bad", but it does have an undeniable effect on the flavor of the cheese.

>>The idea that you can only make a product that is recognizably parmesan in the area of Parma is super fucking silly
I agree. But empirically, what has happened is that 99% of those "parmesans" NOT made in the p.d.o. are vastly inferior imitations of the product. COULD someone make a truly good "parmesan" somewhere else? Of course they could. But they don't. In my experience the same-name knockoffs are never as good as the real deal.

You do, of course, get good or even great cheeses made outside the traditional Euro areas, but those end up being marketed under their own name.

[Anonymous No.10631252]

>>10631201
>I don't think anyone said it was "bad"
It was certainly implied
>but it does have an undeniable effect on the flavor of the cheese
I think that effect is highly exaggerated around here, its mainly just used for marketing purposes, people have to an extent been taught to assume lack of pasteurization is good through marketing. I hardly think such a quality is instrumental in the defining of the style of a hard, aged cheese

[Anonymous No.10631270]

>>10631201
>what has happened is that 99% of those "parmesans" NOT made in the p.d.o. are vastly inferior imitations of the product.
I wouldn't say that at all. I would say Kraft pregrated "parmesan" should not be called parmesan and is very mediocre, but I would really not say they are representative of 99 percent of people making parmesan outside of Parma

>COULD someone make a truly good "parmesan" somewhere else? Of course they could. But they don't. In my experience the same-name knockoffs are never as good as the real deal
>You do, of course, get good or even great cheeses made outside the traditional Euro areas, but those end up being marketed under their own name
Thats more a result of these regulations than anything else. A world in which we lacked protectionist naming policies would be a world in which more people were able to make a style which would mean more people would have access to better cheese at lower prices

[Anonymous No.10631299]

i'll ask about whatever spanish reds whenever i'm ordering a bottle at dinner. i'll keep my eye out for beaujolais depending on the year.

otherwise i don't really know or care much about wine. i cook with chard.

[Anonymous No.10631305]

>>10631270
You might as well be arguing that if not for trademark laws there would be no George Daniels or Philippe Dufour, as they’d have preferred to style themselves as Vacheron Constantin, there being no such thing as pride

[Anonymous No.10631344]

>>10631305
>oh yeah? well you might as well be this strawman I made up

[Anonymous No.10631356]

>>10631305
Am I supposed to know who those people are?

Again, you miss the point here, the fact that something can be done does not suggest it should be done. Sure it is possible for good cheesemakers to exist and sell cheese by some other name, but that doesn't mean the situation is desirable

and again, comparing specific brand or individual names to general style names is silly

[Anonymous No.10631357]

>>10631191
Obviously. The point is that «Parmesan» actually means something, you can slap the name on any random hard salty cheese, or for that matter a fish sandwich, but that’s not what words mean

[Anonymous No.10631369]

>>10631356
>it’s not desirable for producers to stand by their goods instead of freeloading off someone else’s work
Because you have no faith in their abilities. Sad.

[Anonymous No.10631371]

>>10631165
yeah but i meant the specific winery so i could buy more of it

[Anonymous No.10631384]

>>10631252
>It was certainly implied
It's a flavor. It can't really be objectively good or bad. It's always a matter of personal preferace. Having that information provided--either directly on the label, or implied by strict labeling--helps the customer determine whether or not they'd like to purchase it or not. It's an important detail for many customers.

>>I think that effect is highly exaggerated around here,
Have you compared various kinds of cheese made with pasteurized & raw milk? I find the difference to be significant. Likewise, UHT milk tastes worse than standard pasteurized which tastes worse than raw, to me. It's hard to put flavors into words but there is a richness to the flavor that disappears the more you cook the milk.

Anyway, even though I like raw milk cheeses doesn't mean the others aren't often good too. They are good. But they are not the same thing.

[Anonymous No.10631389]

>>10631371
It’s all pretty much the same shit. Not a knock against it, if anything here we have a great example of why PDO helps consumers

[Anonymous No.10631412]

>>10631357
And it should mean something, that thing should be defined by the characteristics of the product, the ingredients and methods used to make it. Not by given special rights to politically connected corporations based on where they are located

[Anonymous No.10631419]

>>10631369
Producers can stand by their goods regardless of whether these laws exist, We certainly are not saying that cheese makers should only be allowed to make currently existing styles

[Anonymous No.10631435]

>>10631384
>Having that information provided--either directly on the label
which already exists outside of these regulation. I am all for people having that data, I just think this specific trait is overblown on /ck/, its not a meaningless thing, just far less important than people here often imply

[Anonymous No.10631698]

>>10631412
How many hard rind, aged salty raw cow's milk cheeses have you actually tried though? Have you even tried parmigiano-reggiano? Grana padano? Do they even taste similar to you? If you have a functioning palate they do not. And yet, you seem to think pasteurized cheese from grain fed American cattle, using different microbes and processed under totally different conditions, is "close enough" when nobody even considers grana padano and parmigiano-reggiano to be the same cheese.

It's like calling all red sports cars "Ferraris", this isn't a question of better or worse, it's just linguistic nonsense pushed by people who don't know any better.

[Anonymous No.10631981]

>>10631356
>Am I supposed to know who those people are?

[Anonymous No.10632013]

>>10631981
he must wear a SQUALE

[Anonymous No.10632031]

>>10631698
No, I am saying if it is similar, it should be allowed to be called the well understood common term for the style.
I am not commenting on the similarity of any current cheese, just the fact that adherence to the style is all that should matter, not politics

You keep changing what I am saying and fighting something I have never argued for

[Anonymous No.10632040]

>>10631981
who the fuck wears watches in the age of cell phones? Why should I possibly know the names of any watch maker?

[Anonymous No.10632110]

>>10632031
>I am not commenting on the similarity of any current cheese
I am asking you to do so now. Is your wisconsin "parmesan" more like parmigiano reggiano than grana padano is like parmigiano reggiano?

You are making an argument that "adherence to the style" is what matters, and yet you refuse to comment on whether there really is any such cheese that plausibly adheres to the style. If there is no such cheese, then what is the point of your argument? That, in theory, given unlimited resources, someone could make a convincing knockoff anywhere on earth? Few people would dispute that. And yet if someone had the resources and the motive to do so, why wouldn't they just make something distinct and worthy of its own name? Why does it need a name of a place that doesn't even have a monopoly on hard rind aged salty cow's milk cheeses?

[Anonymous No.10632118]

>>10632040
Adults

[Anonymous No.10632244]

Is this wine any good?

It's a random bottle someone left at my house after a dinner party.

[Anonymous No.10632248]

>>10632110
>Is your wisconsin "parmesan"
Wisconsin doesn't have just one cheesemaker. The answer is some yes, some no
>If there is no such cheese, then what is the point of your argument?
Even if there weren't, maybe there would be if there weren't regulations designed to make competition hard. The whole problem with regulations is you never know what you will never have because of them
>And yet if someone had the resources and the motive to do so, why wouldn't they just make something distinct and worthy of its own name
Or perhaps do both? These aren't mutually exclusive
>Why does it need a name of a place
I didn't design the english language, and neither did they. Its not their fault the name people gave to the style is associated with another geographic area

[Anonymous No.10632274]

>>10632040
kek. I literally no no one who wears a fucking watch. What a tool!
>inb4 b-but I make 5 billion a year and so there's that.

[Anonymous No.10632279]

>>10632118
Maybe elderly people. Men should never feel the need to wear jewellery like watches. With older people it makes more sense because they were once pragmatic accessories and that habit is hard to break, but I have no desire to show off to everyone how much money I am willing to waste on jewellery to impress all my friends or some shit.

[Anonymous No.10632287]

>>10632244
>bordeaux superieur
It's nothing fancy but it should be perfectly decent
>>10632248
>Wisconsin doesn't have just one cheesemaker. The answer is some yes, some no
I'm not asking you to answer with generalities and vague hand waving. Stand by your argument. Do you have a cheese in mind, from Wisconsin or anywhere else, that YOU consider to be more like parmigiano-reggiano than grana padano is like parmigiano-reggiano, based on personally comparing each of the three. What is the name of that cheese.
>maybe there would be if there weren't regulations designed to make competition hard
Yeah because clearly, EU regulations make it so hard for anyone to make money manufacturing cheese in Wisconsin.
>Or perhaps do both? These aren't mutually exclusive
Oh, so you're telling me Honda Motor Company sells cars under the Ferrari marque as well as under its own name?
>I didn't design the english language
Nor do you appear to understand it very well.
>Its not their fault the name people gave to the style is associated with another geographic area
I'll be waiting for you to name the cheese that perfectly exemplifies the style of parmigiano-reggiano, from the state of Wisconsin.

[Anonymous No.10632294]

>>10632279
>>10632279
t. NEET

[Anonymous No.10632299]

>>10632244
Very drinkable french budget red, but nothing you'll write home about.

[Anonymous No.10632393]

>>10631201
>But empirically, what has happened is that 99% of those "parmesans" NOT made in the p.d.o. are vastly inferior imitations of the product.

that's complete bullshit and you know it. Cite a source for this ridiculous claim or just admit that your entire argument is based on the nonsensical "muh traditions are good and anything new is not as good" line of thinking. You've already conceded that it is possible to make an equivalent product outside of pdo

> COULD someone make a truly good "parmesan" [or Burgundy] somewhere else? Of course they could.

so you've just admitted that everything supporting PDOs is pure protectionst bullshit. You've obviously been BTFO several times over. Stop posting and kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.10632441]

>>10632393
Someone could make great wine in your mom's rectum in principle

Until it happens, I'll stick to what's good

Not the guy who made you feel dumb