/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>vegans look unhealthy

Precisely how many vegans have you met, faggot?

>inb4 b-b-but muh evil celebrities (who I secretly worship)

>>9410897
Most vegans don't do it for health, although some do claim that it's healthy. But my understanding is that veganism is more of a way of life than a diet.

Vegans typically avoid using any animal product (not just eating them). But vegans also have no problem with breastfeeding (since the milk is taken ethically with permission).

>>9410897
Most meat eaters also look unhealthy (fat).

>>9410978
I don't understand this logic.
Cows need to be milked.
They develop painful sores, ulcers if not milked.
Cows enjoy being milked.
But cow's milk is evil?

Eggs are chicken periods. We just collect them.
But eggs are the result of suffering?

>>9411217
What do you think meat and dairy farms are, a place of sunshine where cows are tenderly milked?

Vegan stance is that the whole dairy industry should not exist, the milk cows which are kept constantly pregnant should not exist.

>>9411217
>>9411235
This. Vegan stance is that the industrialized farm industry in general is inhumane, and that the situations we put animals in are false paradigms engineered for our benefit. Cows only produce milk constantly because they're kept pregnant, Chickens only lay eggs constantly because we cajole that behavior out of them and then steal them, etc.

What veganism does not provide - though, to be fair, it has never claimed to no does it claim a responsibility to do so - is a reasonable alternative to these practices or what to do with the millions of farm animals that already exist.

They're a step removed from PETA, in that they still haven't embraced outright euthanasia of animals "tainted" by human manipulation and influence.

>>9411254
>millions of farm animals

they are killed at a very young age, so with ever decreased production, they would just disappear

>>9411235
>>9411254
What do they think happens to herd animals in nature tho? Cattle speed dating followed by a 3 date before sleeping together rule? No, the cow comes into heat, spreads her hormones in the air then two males lock horns for the right to fuck dat pussy. They do this year after year until the day they die. A farm just keeps them all in one place so we can collect the excess milk.

>>9411271
i keep forgetting how little plebs know about nature and animals

>>9411271
Oh and did I mention the females dry hump the one in heat (or ovulating as scientists like to say) to send a visual signal out to the makes that it's time to fuck this bitch and get her pregnant? There is no choice involved for the vast majority of mammalian species females.

>>9411290
Lol swipe left for Bessie.

>>9411217
Yes, cows need to be milked. But humans don't need to keep constantly artificially inseminating as many cows as possible to make more cows to live filthy miserable existences and make more milk.

>>9411334
It's not like they wouldn't get naturally inseminated by bulls anyways in a natural herd. Also cows would be nearly extinct without agriculture, just like their cousins the buffalo and yak. So you're really for the marginalization of a species that has a pretty comfy working relationship with humans. You're dumb if you think they don't enjoy 3 square meals and a warm place to stay free of natural predators.

There's never been a single culture throughout history that's been vegan. It's extremely arrogant to think that humans are totally above nature and therefore outside of the food chain which every single living organism is a part of.

>>9411346
i don't think it's arrogant to acknowledge you enjoy a standard of living at which animals don't have to suffer for your survival. I'm not vegan myself, but I think there's at least some merit to the ethical arguments behind it.

>>9411217
>I don't understand. People need to have sex and enjoy having sex - but raping people is evil????

>>9411345
>cows would be nearly extinct without agriculture
domestic livestock animals are an abomination compared to their wild ancestors and their extinction would not be a loss

in nature they would not be constantly pregnant, herd animals go into season once a year.
they would follow their natural instincts and raise their calves instead of having them taken away at birth

>>9411360
Wow the humanity of vegans everyone.

Checkmate faggot.

>>9411362
>existing in misery is preferable to having never been born

>>9411360
They are no more constantly pregnant in an agriculture setting than nature. Gestation cycles do not change. When she comes into ovulation the hormones are released, the other females of the herd dry hump and signal the males it's time. A few males fight a bit causing severe harm and sometimes death to the weaker one and then the victor mounts the ovulating female. First ovulation occurs during a lactation cycle, so yes they are essentially always pregnant even not in agriculture. Feral cats, rats, feral dogs, coyotes, etc all behave in similar fashion. This is the true color of nature. It is only the elevated human mindset that has allowed us to harness our base sexual urges and cycle or we would be the same.

>>9411360
How many months do you think it takes a calf to be weaned off milk I wonder? And do you realize that an agriculture cow only produces one offspring per year?

>>9411375
Why are you so fixated with this idea of cows dryhumping each other?
>feral cats, rats, feral dogs, coyotes, etc all behave in similar fashion
all of those listed have very different behaviors, mating habbits, litter sizes, parenting behaviors, lifespans, etc.
coyotes for example form lifelong pair bonds, there's no fighting and fucking tons of females.

>>9411403
It's just facts dude. And their actions may look a little different but the core behavior of being pregnant as much as naturally possible until death remains the same there are no retirement homes in nature. And actually the life spans of cows, dogs, and cats are relatively congruous.

>>9411357
>equates drinking milk with rape
>wonders why nobody takes vegans seriously

>>9411235
Vegans are in a state of suffering. Vegans shouldn't exist.

>>9411417
yeah after all a cow's life expectany is just 2x that of a dog

>>9411429
Cows don't live to 26 yrs old. Especially not if they had to compete in nature.

Vegans often are unhealthy, it is very easy to have a good vegan diet, but they'll look at you like you just walked in from the school that they train funny clowns if you even say "amino acid"; they can't into nutrition for shit.

>>9410897
vegan diet? I can't say.

A "whole foods plant based diet," of course. It's been proven that eating a lot of meat, especially red meat and even moreso heavily processed meats is bad for you. The goal should be to heavily reduce if not eliminate the intake of meat.

As such I'd advocate more for lacto-ovo vegetarianism than veganism.

In this day and age it is possible to get all of your nutritional needs through a vegan diet, what with all of the fortified foods on the market.

>Why is it that most vegans look unhealthy?
It's probably in part confirmation bias, or it's that the vegans you see don't pay enough attention to their micros and are deficient.

>>9411438
>nature
a dog in nature (wolf) lives only like 6 years

>>9411444
>Proven
It's been correlated. You don't understand dick about published studies.

>>9411419
That's clearly not what I'm doing. Let me simplify my argument even more:

Milking cows and drinking milk = fine,
Having sex with someone = fine,
Enslaving + torturing cows for their milk = not fine,
Enslaving + torturing someone for sex = not fine

>>9411445
Yeah I'd say a cow would probably do that in nature. In captivity she could go 12 sure (an outlier old age not the average) but her first calf is at 2 yrs old and by the third or fourth pregnancy complications like postpartum milk fever become quite common and are very fatal if not treated by a human.

>>9411455
You have yet to prove that argiculture is enslavement or torture though and that is the Crux of the matter. You won't ever be able to prove it because it is a misguided opinion that tiny minority of the world's population holds.

>>9411345
If they lived naturally, they would keep reproducing (at some rate) probably. Their lives would be much more pleasant and they'd partake in natural cow sex.

As it is, their lives are wretched and diseased and they live in their own shit, and humans don't have the patience to wait for two wretched diseased cows to actually fuck each other in a tiny cage covered in a pile of their own shit so we pay some guy to jack off the bull and shoot it in the cows pussy with a syringe.

>>9411465
You don't have any idea what you are talking about. They are not humans they are incapable of choosing to slow down their reproduction rate. Artificial insemination does not increase the rate of pregnancy it just makes it easier to diversify genetics and not have to worry about the danger and cost of housing aggressive bulls.

>>9411463
If you hold an animal captive in order to exploit it, then the burden lies on proving that it ISN'T enslavement

Can someone tell me what nutrient deficiency might kill a vegan's libido and what food might correct it? Asking for a friend.

>>9411502
Because the word enslavement means that you are holding back something with self determination, which animals lack. They are already a slave to their senses, which we manipulate.

>>9410897

My main question for Vegans has always been: If everyone turned vegan this moment, what do we do with all of the livestock?

>>9411485
They don't consciously think to themselves that they don't want their kids to have that future. But animals tend not to want sexy time when their lives consist of standing shoulder to shoulder in their own shit.

>>9411521
This

>>9411448
How many studies need to happen before the correlation/causation argument is invalidated?

>>9411536
Herd animals are almost always standing shoulder to shoulder in their own shit. It's what happens when you prefer to live in a tight group and eat together and also shit while you eat where you eat. I actually run a pasture based dairy and even though I have about a half acre if grass available per head they still prefer to all group with each other inside of less than an acre of pasture and literally shit on each other or lay in their shit. It's hilarious when a short little Jersey comes up to with shit on her back from a taller Holstein.

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/19562864
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/579S.short
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673682915070
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0899900704001674
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.short
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0884533610385707
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/
>benefits of vegetarianism and/or plant-based diet in multiple aspects of health

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/3/532s.short
http://www.bmj.com/content/308/6945/1667
>correlation between meat eating and cancer, and vegetarianism/plant based eating and less of a chance of cancer

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.short
>American Cancer Society Guidelines circa 2002


some articles gained from google scholar for anyone interested

>>9410897
My main question for Vegans: why the fuck you just don't shut up and stop attacking other people?

People seem to be confused about large-scale livestock farming.

I'm not making a moral judgement here, but it's important to understand what you're talking about.

Chickens, for example, don't get enough space to move, are kept inside, and have their beaks removed because they get violent with one another when they literally can't fucking move.

Cows, likewise, are kept in pens just big enough to fit their bodies, artificially inseminated (with the calves being aborted), repeat until they die, with a milking machine hooked up to them constantly. It's more common for cows to have infected udders than not, in factory farming.

>>9411591
what you see online is not entirely indicative of the real world. do you know any vegans in real life?

>>9411571
Dietary studies are not very reliable anon. There are many reasons why. I personally eat a balanced diet with mostly vegetables and meat but I have no doubt I'll live well into my 80s eating beef, sausages, and bacon just like all of my grandparents and their parents.

>>9410897
I can't logically defend eating meat but I'm going to do it anyway

>>9411596
Are you serious? I've met vegans in real life, and most of them are pushy.

>>9411593
>have their beaks removed because they get violent with one another
>they're too dumb to stop themselves from gutting their neighbors and somehow that's people's fault

>>9411502
why are you equating animals with humans?

>>9411608
I've met vegans in real life, most of them are chill as shit.

anecdotal evidence counts for a lot, huh?

>>9411217
>eggs are the result of suffering?
Yes

>>9411945
We're actually helping them out of their pain.

>>9411945
should've given the boi chikkuns to the vegan
they love to swallow cocks

>>9410962
Not OP but the two vegan chicks I know at work are both chubby

>>9411785
>they're too dumb to stop themselves from gutting their neighbors

pathologic behavior emerges in unnatural, stressful environs, both in humans and animals

>>9412022
I know two chicks who used to be fat and lost a lot of weight by going vegan.

>>9413231
>I know two chicks who lost weight on a crash diet

No shit! Wait 'til they start craving cheese again.

I've gone vegetarian for 8 months, to see what it would be like.
At first, it felt great, my skin cleared up, I'd go to the toilet every day, if not twice and I had a lot of energy. Not only that, but I found out a lot of interesting recipes and felt good for being able to resist meat.
Fast forward to the third month or so, I began to feel odd. I'd have terrible headaches every now and then, I'd get sick very easily if I ate some things, my memory began to fail, concentrating became harder, my muscles started to feel weak and in general I started to feel a lot more tired than before.
I insisted for 5 more months, until I've decided I had had it and went back head first into the world of meat eating. Instantly I felt a boon of energy, and had a lot more motivation and willpower to get up and do what I needed to do. For the first few weeks, my poop smelled like it was rotting inside of me, but that soon stopped. I felt a lot stronger too, and my immune system improved a lot.
My conclusion: I need to eat meat if I'm to stay healthy. Vegetarianism and veganism are, to me, ways of cleansing the body from accumulated "dirt", but shouldn't be taken as a life long choice. For instance, I believe it could be used to treat certain diseases.
Either way, that's how my body responded, perhaps some people might be actually able to survive without meat. If you're in doubt, the only way to find out is trying it for yourself.