/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Well the thing is that Africans on average are less intelligent than the mildly retarded and the starving ones are probably part of the less intelligent half glad to help.

They must be really goddamn stupid to be unable to grow food. As in the picture, they fucking lay around all day waiting for a handout rather than planting some goddamn potatoes.
Its an incredibly fertile continent with rich soil, plenty of rain, and 12 months a year of warmth.

>>8286279
maybe they don't have a potato to sprout spuds from, or any corn seeds

I thought it is obviously that green can be eaten even for true retarded people. So I guess there are some reasons why they don't try to cook something

>>8286283
And yet there are 2 children in that picture.

I have a really hard time feeling sorry for them.

>>8286283
Stupid morons would probably eat the seeds.
There's really no helping these people, many have tried. They're stuck in a permanent cycle of failure, regardless of geography.

>>8286295
I heard that every time someone wants to set up a farm, some warlord comes in and kills everyone or fucks up the water well or something

Theres no way you could ever get enough calories from "eating green that grows around you"

Like other anon said, most regions with skeltal africans are too unstable to live normally and farm. sounds miserable

Why would they grow and eat/sell any of it if they get millions in food aid every year?

>>8286342
because usually a group of thugs steals the food aid and then hoards it and sells it for black market prices back to other Africans

>>8286283
Maybe if those agencies like Oxfam and the Red Cross donated seeds instead of sacks of rice and advised them on farming-
wait, oh dear II forgot they have average IQs in the 60s and 70s so dropping a potato in the ground is just too complex.

>>8286354
They eat the seeds

>>8286279
>plenty of rain
you wot

>>8286349
>Black market

Kek

>>8286360
Contrary to popular belief, Africa isn't all desert

>>8286257
I wonder what their stance is on anal before marriage/homosexuality.
#hillery2017

>>8286365
They eat da poo poo. They hold it like pic related

>>8286364
the continent is fucking huge. even the parts that aren't a literal sandbox don't get much rain when they're far away from the ocean. learn some metrology

>>8286355
Then they deserve to starve.
That may sound edgy but that is the one basic rule you follow before any others.
Don't eat your seed crop

>>8286387
Well yeah. It's a good sign of an idiotic people when Koko the gorilla had a higher IQ than the average African

>>8286387
They don't know how to agriculture. They can't read and their parents were killed in genocides so no one taught them about seed crops

>>8286391
They've been taught by Americans and Europeans alike. My college classmate went there last summer to try and show them agriculture. It doesn't work.

>>8286396
What did the Africans do?

My friend went with the uni to Pakistan to teach them how to use soap to clean themselves. The Muslim men said their women were using these "soap" things after sex, and said they were using them to cheat or something. So they drove the researchers out. Kind of makes you wonder what filth the Pakis live in

>>8286390
>>8286391
>>8286401

"Put that potato in the ground and leave it there for 3 months, then dig it up and keep one in every ten for the next crop"
>M'OBUNG BUNGA *click click* FABOLO KAMPALA SHESHI *eats all the potatoes*

You can't grow food on African soil you dumb fuck

>>8286412
I don't think Africans understand English. Maybe you should have gotten someone who understands click or Swahili

>>8286401
Ate the seeds. No lie, that's what they did according to her.

>>8286257
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxPtb397Dxc
watch and you will understand
africans hunt in groups of hundreds like ants
when africans hunt they destroy eveerything in their path
the real reason they starve are war, overpopulation and getting kicked of their habitats, there is enough game to sustain never having to farm

racism is fun!

>>8286480
>literally hitler
>like oh my god
>really???

>>8286480
racism means all of a race are classed as inferior or superior because of an inherent characteristic

all Africans are not starving, all Africans are not stupid but many of them are starving and are stupid

>>8286491

is there anything more clearly signalling of racism than becoming pedantic and stringent about the definition of racism in a defensive context?

>>8286283
They receive a shitton of international aid. I highly doubt that at this point they can't afford buying some seeds

>>8286504
How about disparaging someone solely due to there race?

>>8286477
>when africans hunt they destroy eveerything in their path

do you think that's evidenced by a video in which like 100 of them struggle to kill a hippo?

>>8286511

like this thread, in which people are both implicitly and explicitly claiming to be superior to tribal africans

>>8286513
>struggle to kill
that hippo is as good as dead as soon as those afrocans show up
they catch it in water and get 100 spears through him before he can climb out
did you see the elephant?

>>8286520
If I have a reliable source of nourishment then I am, by default, superior to tribal Africans.

>>8286535

not inherently, you teenaged bellend

>>8286535
wellif you made that source of food
yes?
its not like anyone started in the garden of eden here

>>8286520
anon tribal africans cant read, do math or speak more than 200 words
we are by definition better than tribal people

>>8286539
Unless they somehow find a way to completely turn their life around, then yeah, it's not inherent. But until that happens I am still superior to tribal Africans.

>>8286549
that's bullshit, I read a novel based on some African history or legend or some shit

It was called "Things Fall Apart"

>>8286550

no, you are not inherently superior even if they remain permanently malnourished. what is inherence? look it up.

>>8286549

>by definition

by which definition? a more fortunate human being is not a better human being by my definition.

>>8286504
>pedantic and stringent
I gave you the basic definition of racism.

If someone ITT was to state something like "all Africans are stupid" then they would be making a racist statement.
If someone was to observe that many Africans have trouble farming they would not be making a racist statement.

>>8286551
was i suppossed to understand that reference?

>>8286556
No, I'm telling you about a novel written in English, but based on an African man and his history in Nigeria. They speak an African language with a vast vocabulary, obviously written in English because we can't speak African Igbo

>>8286552
>human difference stops at skin color
you know this isn't true

>>8286553
but im not claiming to be superior to black people, im claiming to be superior to tribal people
tribal people arent a race they are a proto society, africans in citys and africans descendents all over the world arent tribal

>>8286553
okay. MANY Africans are stupid.
Happy now?

>>8286553

>If someone was to observe that many Africans have trouble farming they would not be making a racist statement.

much of racism is in subtext, which we are all capable of observing, yet many of us are disingenuous because we enjoy being racist.

>>8286562
racist

the entire african continent isn't suffering from famine you dopes, and what's this shit about the supposed agricultural practices of 'tribal people'?
nobody in this thread is even slightly informed or has an accurate understanding of what is happening in africa or what it's like. read a book.

>>8286560
You never heard of a place called Chicago? Johannesburg?

>>8286562
No, statistically most Africans are stupid.

>>8286558
are you aware of the amount of books that exist? how was i supposed to know about this particular book?
plus there are 3000 different african languages

>>8286566
savage =/= tribal

How expensive are seeds anyway?

>>8286257
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesia

>While as Rhodesia, the country was once considered the breadbasket of Africa. Today, Zimbabwe is a net importer of foodstuffs, with the European Union and United States providing emergency food relief as humanitarian aid on a regular basis.[152] The nation has suffered profound economic and social decline in the past twenty years. Recently the agriculture sector has started to do well since the availability of expertise and machines has improved supported mainly by China.[153][154]

So this... Is the power... of colonialism... woah

>>8286568

>are you aware of the amount of books that exist? how was i supposed to know about this particular book?

because some books are more well known than others you dumb cunt

any moderately literate person knows who chinua achebe is

is it a coincidence that racebaiting threads are filled with frustratingly unthinking people, i wonder

>>8286577
well duh
china wont accept a popular uprising tho, it would be fun to see how this ends up like in 200 years or so

>>8286508
I dont think you understand how fucked Africa is

>>8286579
you arent exactly quoting harry potter sweetheart
and i have 0 interest in african literature, time is a luxury i cant afford to waste and i would rather read something useful in todays world like 1984

>>8286508
they fight wars to control that international aid and keep everyone else poor

>>8286587

>time is a luxury i can't afford to waste

yeah i mean recess and lunch break and the time you spend skipping gym to shitpost on 4chan is a valuable resource right.

>and i have 0 interest in african literature

you don't address a claim that you're ignorant by telling me you have 0 interest in knowing things. it doesn't make you less ignorant, it just makes you less likely to become less ignorant. how the fuck does that improve your argument? this is the kind of argument a cab driver makes. is a cab driver what you wanna be when you grow up?

>>8286600
i dont have 0 interest in knowing thing and i dont hve 0 interest in africa. I have 0 interest in african literature
you have derailed the conversation so much that i no longer understand what is the argument, if its africans speak complete languages then im right since there are african tribes with languages that contain less than 400 words
if it is tribal people arent inferior then you may aswell be arguing against water being wet, tribalism is a step towards actual civilization, every race in every corner of the world went through
im going to start considering talking with kids under 21 an act of charity, i already fufilled my good deed of the day
knowledge isnt random facts no matter what the big bang theory says, you are completely useless

>>8286618

>the most widely read piece of african literature
>'random facts'

>>8286619
look at how much it has taught you
>africans (some) speak lots of words
>they also have legends or something

>>8286622

you made an ignorant generalisation, were corrected quite humbly by some dude and then started whining about how you shouldn't be held to a certain standard of knowledge in order to make generalisations. well that's bullshit mate. you should know what african culture is before you start shitting on it.

>>8286625
>you made an ignorant generalisation
what generalisation? that some tribal people in africa have languges with fewer than 400 words? thats true
>be held to a standar of knowledge
again, african literature to meholds no value at all, i know plenty about things that i give a fuck about
>african culture
wich i never mentioned, i talked about tribalism

go find some other poor fuck as miserable as you to waste hi time on this, there is no end in sight and im smart enough to know mine has more value, yuo clearly have low self steem probably because you are underage and are looking for people to outsmart to fill the void
and you know what? i dont need that

>>8286634

>what generalisation? that some tribal people in africa have languges with fewer than 400 words? thats true

you literally said 'tribal africans cant read, do math or speak more than 200 words'. i mean it is right fucking there.

>again, african literature to meholds no value at all

which is, i suppose, why you are ignoring it exists in order to shit on them.

>go find some other poor fuck as miserable as you to waste hi time on this, there is no end in sight

there is. if you acknowledge your clear incapacity to say correct and reasonable things on the subject, i will let you have the last word, which is clearly what you want.

>>8286283
>>8286293
>>8286295

Holy fuck, isn't it still a school day? Put something on that edge, you'll hurt yourself kids.


>>8286325
>>8286334
>>8286349
This is more accurate in SOME places in Africa.

It's a pretty war-torn place with an unforgiving climate that would be a struggle to live in without warlords and their drugged child army mowing down anyone who resists.

Some places are not so bad, but you need to understand what kind of crops are grown. Most food crops are not native. The most important local crop in many parts of Africa is sorghum, which is a kind of grain. Sorghum will sprout or ferment within a few days if picked and not processed, and so is a labor intensive crop with a short window of viability. Sweet potatoes (and similar tuber plants like cassava) are another choice plant to grow, but without modern farming tools, farming is labor intensive and not guaranteed to work. No rain? Too much rain? Your whole family is dead.

Have you every threshed grain? I have, it makes you want to force someone else to do it for you for free. An hour of post-processing might yield you a single serving or two of grain.

Modern peoples have no idea what efforts have been poured into our food industries. There are thousands of people whose sole job in life is to make vegetables produce more, either via breeding or careful growing conditions. The stone-age version of this science called "agriculture" is what allowed Native Americans to grow enough food to feed themselves (and starving Europeans)

Corn is very nutrient dependent, so is squash. One grows up, one grows out wide. Beans provide the nitrogen needed for both to thrive, but needs support while growing and has shallow roots easily bothered by weeds. You put the three together and get more out of each.

That's genius. They didn't have PH tests or the ability to test nitrogen in the soil (the fuck is a nitrogen?), that was trial and error for years.

Y'all would die if you had to subsistence farm.

they need bigger and better brains. we can give them better brains by sending them sperm from intelligent donors. Then we can train them to produce enough food for themselves.

>>8286577
colonialism is mostly shit when you consider the colony. the elite are always pissy because the mother countries taxes and jewing ways fuck you over, and the mother country is often stupid and blind to the obvious to you and will attempt ecological imperialism and ruin your shit with it, like the canals built in india and refusing to let the "savages" drink in their working water system.

>>8286642
dog
dog
hes trolling. it doesn't matter what you say, he's just going to shit post his way into more arguing because he didn't come here to shit on africans, he came here to stir up shit.

>>8286668
>Y'all would die if you had to subsistence farm

No, we (white people) wouldn't.

>>8286257
GRASS IS NOT VERY NUTRITIOUS.

>>8286722
Ask the fucking pilgrims who were dying in droves until the brown people taught them how to grow food. That's the story of Thanksgiving you retard.

Sincerely, a white person from New England.

P.S. You would all die if you had to grow everything you ate, no exceptions, me included.

>>8286375

I am surprised that a continent of hunters couldn't find a way to lure delicious vultures in with a famished child then capture and consume them.

Instead of dropping supplies. Drop some haitians to teach them about the glory of dirt cookies.

>>8286751
>Ask the fucking pilgrims who were dying in droves until the brown people taught them how to grow food
Hahahahahaha holy fuck is this what they're teaching in American schools now
I'm sure those nomadic tent people knew fucking everything there is to know about agriculture and horticulture didn't they
Jesus Christ

Niggers

>>8286783
are you even trying anymore?

>>8286668
>not making children you can't feed is edgy

>>8286579

But that's fucking wrong. Nobody knows some obscure African novel. Maybe if you said Cry the Beloved Country, sure, but please take your nonsense back to /lgbt/ thanks

>>8286783
Tent people? You mean the nomadic hunters who ate mostly meat ~2,000 miles away from where I'm talking about? I'm sure the Iroquois and their society are a myth too.

People are not born with innate knowledge of how things work, they must discover them or be given the discovery of others. This is why I'm not mad at your posts-- you merely lack the knowledge necessary to have a real conversation about why people starve to death.

>>8286371
Thank u doctor pastor martin

>>8286257
I know of old Filapinos that recounted cooking their lawns and tree leaves to survive.

>>8286565
Look at the photo... starving to death while greens are growing all around them... that's what OP is inquiring about.

OP photos get misused all the time. Perhaps these people are sick by other means, not starvation.

maybe if leftists stopped blocking GMO crop development we could fix this

>>8287303

Grass growing all around them. Humans can't digest grass.

>>8286504
>I don't like it
>it must be racism XD
>my opinion is fact, words only have the meaning I feel they have

>>8287378
Literally I can't even

>>8286579
>any moderately literate person knows who chinua achebe is

No they don't. Unless your definition of remotely literate is some sort of specific liberal arts degree major.

>>8286257
They do. Foraged food is a large part of many african cuisines, especially in poorer areas.
The issue is that many wild plants in africa are poisonous, most ancestors of the watermelon are, and what is edible can be sparse.

When talking about foraging one must also consider the energy expended to find and dig up or otherwise gather food. Greens can be nutritious but lack calories to fuel physical activity, for that you more need tubers, even nuts and wild grains are more a snack unless gathered in significant quanity.
Even in less harsh parts of the world it can be difficult to gather enough food to make it worth the energy you spend without a lot of knowledge and not-insignificant luck.

>>8286273
Fun fact; leaking your shitposting out of your containment board actually breaks a global rule.

>>8286283
Maize is actually a staple crop in much of africa and while potatos are grown cassava is more common as it can be more nutritious and suited to the climate.

>>8287313
Nice emotional shitposting desperate for any chance to blame "da big bad liberuls" but most of the "famine fighting gmos" are just token bs for publicity to trick idiots like you who jump at headlines without reading sources or research.
Golden rice certainly could theoretically fight malutrition but in the real world it's too expensive for the people it's supposed to help to afford and that's not because of the big bad libruls.

Gmos have immense potential for humanity's future but emotional appeals that if we just let big companies do whatever they want then they'll fix all the world's problems out of the goodness of their hearts are just as stupid as appeals against gmos because of their theoretical potential for harm.

>>8286480
>>8286504
>>8286511
>>8286539
>>8286551
>>8286552
>>8286564
>>8286587
>>8286625
>>8286751
>>8286783

Good afternoon there Redditor!

While it may be a surprise you and the nu-male echoing hugbox ideas that you have, it is common knowledge that blacks from the central part of the world are generally worthless "humans." Since the dawn of civilization, which developed independently and away from the most resource dense continent on earth (Africa), other societies have refined the ability to farm and produce food without the dependence on those problematic white people. It may come as a surprise, but despite what your surrogate bull-father told you, Africans have not only failed to learn the techniques of "modern" agriculture ("modern" referring to techniques learned upwards of 4000 years ago) but have also systematically destroyed any means to create a sustainable source of food that isn't bugs or monkeys. While calling people racist on a virtual Tibetan couch-assembling brochure seems like the proper response to such a challenging concept, I assure you that in time, you will learn that such knee-jerking responses will only be met with laughter and ridicule.

While your desire to let the 10 people in this thread know how offended you are on behalf of an ethnicity that can't tie their own shoes is passionate, I strongly suggest you never post here again. With a little effort in permanently avoiding this website, you too can help make the world a better place to coexist in.

Thank you so much anon, and remember, please leave and never come back!

You guys should watch empire of dust.

>>8286504
Holy fuck go back to Tumblr

>>8287399
Then you got Abos. Imo, the missing link.

>>8287399
>y-you nu-male millenial feminist sjw jewish muslin niggers! stop invading my hugbox by saying things I disagree with, get out REEEEEEE!!!!!

>>8287411
Disprove what he said.

>>8287411
Notice how the redditor didn't try to argue his points but instead went right to insulting.

>>8287411

Well thought out post lad!

However, you appear to be reinforcing my point about being an overly-offended baby. Perhaps a site more suited to your tastes like Salon or Kotaku would interest you? Again, your input is not at all appreciated. perhaps you should re-read the post I made instead of sounding like an asshole.

Have a great day, friend! I'm certain you will learn from your mistakes some day soon!

>>8287392
>Nice emotional shitposting desperate for any chance to blame "da big bad liberuls" but most of the "famine fighting gmos" are just token bs for publicity to trick idiots like you who jump at headlines without reading sources or research.
>Golden rice certainly could theoretically fight malutrition but in the real world it's too expensive for the people it's supposed to help to afford and that's not because of the big bad libruls.
Literally none of this is true. Leftists organizations like Greenpeace spend a lot of fucking money to trick people into thinking science is scary and are quite literally killing poor people as a result

>>8287404
Yeah because the chinese are really the ones to lecture with their gutter-oil and sky-high cancer rates from all the pollution and smog-oh I mean "fog" pls don't censor me china.
They've almost exterminated their native pangolins and tigers and amoung others so now they almost single-handedly fund poaching throughout the world and especially in africa so they can snort powdered tiger nuts to try to muster an erection out of their little limp dicks.

And now that they've fucked up their own country they're buying up land in africa and london and canada to try to escape to new lands to poison.

>>8287411
Please be b8

>>8287423
And it's awesome. They're not stopped by political correctness. Go argue with Chang and how he's ruining the world. Guarantee he'll laugh in your face.

>>8287423
>they're buying up land in africa

So they're only what, 150 years behind the Europeans doing the same thing with their colonies in Africa and SEA? Oh wait, the Euros did it by force, not money.

>>8287411
Virtue signaling doesn't really work without another sjw around to agree with you
You are appealing to Ally's to show up and cover your back so you can look like you are winning even tho you arent

>>8287413
>>8287417
>>8287418
How about this part"
>Africans have not only failed to learn the techniques of "modern" agriculture ("modern" referring to techniques learned upwards of 4000 years ago) but have also systematically destroyed any means to create a sustainable source of food that isn't bugs or monkeys
Well there is sustained agriculture in africa. It's a huge continent with many countries and is not all savannas and tribes and they have cities farms and shit.
I mean you retards just make these wild claims based off of your feels and memes and you expect people to explain everything about a whole continent to you just so you can say "nuhh uh niggers lol XD"?

>>8286257
>complain about starving
>doesnt grow food

This is why you shouldnt give money to homeless people. Lazy fucks can just get a job. Nothing stopping these people from growing crops, going fishing or just going somewhere less shit.

>>8287431

>anecdotal evidence
>no proof of your own
>being butthurt
>falling for bantz

stop posting anytime my man

>>8287431
Well yeah. Some of them actually learned some things from the Europeans. You're implying all or most of them already knew about agriculture (which they didn't) and using another SJW tactic. Cherry picking

http://qz.com/458137/mugabe-is-asking-back-the-white-farmers-he-chased-away/

>>8287419
>Literally none of this is true.
Golden rice IS too expensive to be affordable by the people it's supposed to help, sorry if that triggers you by not agreeing with your feels.
Feel free to keep screeching about how the greenpeace liberal conspiracy is solely responsible for us not having flying cars and apples that give all the nutrition you ever need or whatever else dumb bullshit you fell for.

>>8287431
Of course nobody is complaining about south Africa where a good chunk of the population is white and isn't native to the land

>>8287445
Dindu nuffin mane

>>8287426
>cancer is awesome bro yolo XD if you disagree you're just a pc sjw!

>>8287431
Yet when someone posts that a large chunks of africa are literal good for nothings, you get all butthurt and defensive. Calling people here "racist". it's not all Africans right? Just some of them.

Egypt and Ethiopia seemed to know what they were doing for some time, true. But blaming african being a shithole on colonialism is blatantly false and shortsighted.

>>8287392
>if we just let big companies do whatever they want then they'll fix all the world's problems out of the goodness of their hearts
The leftist feel good groups are trying to completely ban biotech. Th science is settled there are huge burdens already in place before a crop can actually be used, don't act like those measures are not already in place.
and sure the big bad corporations have additional motives, thats the beauty of capitalism, they can make money while also providing people with a product or service that betters their life, that how the vast majority of technology we currently use came to be

Greenpeace is analogous to climate change denialists, and anti-vaxxers when it comes to their stance on technology, they are fighting scientists and harming humanity

>>8287447
You must be an aussie and therefor b8ing me. Congrats you got me this time.

>>8287443
>Golden rice IS too expensive to be affordable by the people it's supposed to help, sorry if that triggers you by not agreeing with your feels.
They literally wanted to give the shit to them for free but have been blocked by governmental agencies and shitty politics

>>8287445

>dindu thug suicide by cop
vs.
>a talented hardworking man who was driven to death by being overworked and having ignored mental illnesses

a damn shame

>>8287443
>Golden rice IS too expensive to be affordable by the people it's supposed to help
Where did you come up with this?

>All this pseudo-intellectual garbage in the thread
It's ok guys, Aussie reporting in.

>>8287445
>>8287445
Wow
It's like society cares more about a famous actor than a drug dealer

Cuz they are too busy killing each other or being forced to mine useful minerals to pay for the war efforts
C O N F L I C T
O
N
F
L
I
C
T

>>8287354

>>8287438
>anecdotal evidence
What ancedote? That there is in fact agriculture in africa despite the memes you retards keep spouting? Does the whole continent have to be covered in farms for it to "count"?

>no proof of your own
That there's sutained agriculture in africa? I mean I could google that for you and post some pictures of farms but you seem to already be rejecting anything that disagrees with your feels as "ancedotal".

>being butthurt
>falling for bantz
>s-stop disagreeing with me, i-it's just a joke!, you're just BUTTHURT for not agreeing with me!

>>8287468
It seems like the only solution is stopping all help and let nature run its course until one side genocides everyone else and gets unchallenged power

>>8287473
>Going for the low hanging fruit when you have actual replies
Shake my head to be honest

>>8287455
For free forever, or just till people solely reliant on it and the single huge company that provides it then they need to start paying up?

>>8287392
>>Gmos have immense potential for humanity's future

Yes, they encourage sloppy farming.

The World record for corn was a nonGMO, grown in a notill field... that goes against all conventions of "modern" farming.

>>8287354
just cook it and drink the juice.
also many "grass" can be eaten. dandelions for instance

>>8287479

>that stooge keeps replying

>>8287481
even if that were the case people could always go back to not buying it like they previously were, what an absurd concern

but still, there is no indication your conspiracy theory was true

>>8287481
Maybe. I think so many cultures were way too immature to receive western tech too. We got the luxury of growing up so to speak as our tech advanced deadlier and deadlier

Really sad that some of you people are this ignorant. There is one anon here trying to educate you niggers and yet you act like niggers.

>>8287481
You realize that golden rice was developed by a team of universities and charities, not evil Monsanto, right?

>>8287465
But, but, he was going to Barbers' School... he was gonna be bigger than Supercuts...

>>8287483
Yeah, that was my whole point.
They have immense potential but overemotional retards try to use that to excuse everything else like monoculture and monopolies and patent issues and pests developing resistance to pesticides at a hugely increased rate since they started breeding it into plants instead of spraying it.

And if you try to mention any of that shit then you're just a sjw liberal greenpeace dummy that WANTS poor people to STARVE oh why aren't you pc police just letting a single huge corporation do whatever they want and take over all the world's agriculture so they can fix all our problems and make everything perfect?!?!?Q!?

>>8287399
this post sounds like it was from reddit though

>>8287483
Yeah, farmers and scientists overwhelming agree that GMOs are important for feeding a growing population and helping the environment, but you know better. Good Job!

>>8287507
>overemotional retards
Haha, scientists are now 'overemotional retards' in your conspiracy theory?

>>8287505
That's beside the point. It's constantly used as a token "world-saving wonder" for people to point to and say "oh why do you want innocent poor people to starve!" whenever you say anything less than fully supportive of as much gmos as possible while famine is more of a political issue.

>>8287507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH4bi60alZU

>>8286725
Oh right so it is better to just starve to death then... "Man starves to death after being locked in an ocean freight container filled with cheesy poofs; not very nutritious found scrawled next to his bloated corpse..."

>>8287517
Oh yes it's all just a conspiracy theory like
>pests developing resistance to pesticides at a hugely increased rate since they started breeding it into plants instead of spraying it
I'm definitely just making that up because I'm anti-science and want poor people to STARVE!

>>8287518
>It's constantly used as a token "world-saving wonder
Because its a fucking good example of what GMOs will be able to do. Whats wrong with that?

>>8287518
Gmos aren't the answer as much as local farming and self sufficient communities are. We already grow enough food for the world a couple times over but we have inefficient distribution and market speculation on staple crops which contributes to exorbitant pricing

>>8287524
Its a minor issue to be dealt with for sure, but its absurd to argue that not using pesticides is a superior alternative

>>8287528
>We already grow enough food for the world a couple times over but we have inefficient distribution
Thats why developing GMO crops that can grow in more diverse environments is so important

>>8287521
https://youtu.be/i1dAs-91HmQ

>>8287512
Oh thank you. If you empty your bank account, I can line up "experts" that will attest to anything I want them to say, even with peer reviewed studies to back it up.

>>8287521
lol that video
https://mylespower.co.uk/2013/02/25/the-biased-views-of-hank-green-and-scishow/

>>8287532
There is strong scientific consensus across the board, don't fucking act like its some fringe paid off scientists

>>8287530
Yeah bit natural corn can grow anywhere making round up ready just helps monsanto instead of better weed management practice

>>8287528
Half the world has too many people and too little technology to keep itself fed =/= poor distribution

>>8287530
Actually those are called herloon crops and local veritals.

>>8287525
The people that it's supposed to help can't afford it.
There's nothing wrong with it specifically except that it's used as a "why do you want poor people to STARVE!?!" deflection whenever you question any policies surrounding gmos.

Gmos are amazing, they're the future of humanity but fammine and malnutrition worldwide is more of a political and economic issue and I dislike it being used to demonize any questioning of gmo policies kind of like people labeling anything they don't like as "racist" to shut down dissucssion.

>>8287532
>Why don't people ever listen to science
>No, no that science. That science isn't being manipulated by me :(

>>8287539
Pew...

>>8287528
>We already grow enough food for the world a couple times over but we have inefficient distribution and market speculation on staple crops which contributes to exorbitant pricing
That's what I'm getting at, hunger worldwide is more an issue of politics than food directly.

>>8287541
Its less than half the world you dolt and that's my point entirely that there are portions of the world who can't grow and distribute their own food so yes it=poor global distribution

>>8287536
>Female
>Doctor

>>8287546
Always following the research money...

>>8287540
GMO is not just roundup ready crops, its a much more complicated issue than that

>>8287549
Yeah i was agreeing with you

>>8287541

Even when the technology is there, niggers just destroy it. Just look at Rhodesia to Zimbabwe.

>>8287539
How about sources on every single claim there?

>>8287542
Thats just a shitty less effective version of using GMO crops, and much more dangerous human healthwise

>>8287544
>The people that it's supposed to help can't afford it.
You keep saying this, but what are you basing this off of. I have never once heard the complaint that people cannot afford a free crop given to them by charity

>>8287529
A minor issue?
Our modern massive-scale monoculture agriculture is completely reliant of pesticides to make up for the lack of diversity in our crops.
The increased speed at which pests are developing resistance is something unprecedented on earth.

>its absurd to argue that not using pesticides is a superior alternative
Wow, that is not at all what I'm arguing.
Where the hell did you even get that out of my post?

hmm why do people making scientific claims sound exactly like people making religious claims?

>>8287565
Yeah because they're totally gonna give it free for forever to all of africa pls trust.

>>8287547
Feel free to provide any source that suggests there is not a scientific consensus on the issue.
I'll wait

It's literally on par with vaccines and global warming, there is no substantial dissent amongst educated people

>>8287556
Is it tho? I know the potential is there for all these wonderful things but as someone who has spent a lifetime in ag I can tell you that those products rarely make it to market because there is little interest in selling to poor countries with no money. Also Africa has many many regions that could be bread baskets with rudimental farming techniques

>>8287461
rolling

>>8286783
>I'm sure those nomadic tent people knew fucking everything there is to know about agriculture and horticulture didn't they
They actually introduced the importance of crop rotation and the benefits of symbiotic crops, such as planting certains crops because they create specific conditions in the soil

They grew squash, corn, and beans all at once because it was efficient

>is this what they teach in school
I'd honestly be surprised if someone like you had a high school education
Like, it's not just ignorance, but you won't even be bothered to look up anything that supports your argument because you "know" you're correct so you don't have to prove it

>>8287544
>they're the future of humanity but fammine and malnutrition worldwide is more of a political and economic issue
Sure, but that doesn't mean GMOs don't have the potential to help a lot. Its a lot more plausible than fixing the political issues too

>>8287550
you are assuming that its the responsability of the entire world to feed the countries that cant feed themselves
you are assuming wrong
also its at least half when you account for africa, india and asia

>>8287568
OK, but what you are saying is that they cannot afford it, which is objectively false, you just have some conspiracy theory about how some evil corporation will one day come along and at that point make it unaffordable.
So stop repeating this absurd claim that they cannot afford it when they literally can afford

>>8287554
because there is no money in claiming we are near extinction, that the earth is going to melt and that the revolutionary seeds that will put industries out of buisness cause cancer right?

>>8287570
(YOU)"Let them eat #2 yellow dent"...

>>8287582
Fox New writer detected...

>>8287567
If you don't understand the underlying science then they can seem very similar.
If I just say "smoking causes cancer" that's not much different than someone saying "fags cause floods" without an explanation of carcinogens and their effect on the body which is useless without an understanding of related topics.

>>8287572
have you ever been to the inner city? The one place that is most thoroughly controlled by democrat policies?

>>8287577
No. Not what I'm saying at all. You are illiterate I want these under nourished places to be more self sufficient and for multinational grain and farming companies to stop shilling these ppl in veritable company store infrastructure

>>8287568
honestly es
there is a reason why medicine costs a fraction on the thirld world
its called human testing

>>8287572
where do democrats hide that massive amount of debt tho?

>>8287577
India and Asia are also better fed than the west gives credit for and it's only pockets of Africa that are actually starving

>>8287575
>They actually introduced the importance of crop rotation
this has been around since the bc's the problem with the north american colonies is that there were very few farmers they went, the colonies were actually filled with lots of miners and gold/silver smiths because people heard about all the wealth coming out of south american's mines and though the north would be the same. that and criminals i.e people who dont know how to farm because they weren't farmers unlike the people back home

>>8287567
They don't at all. Scientific claims are based on research and data, while pseudo science (GMOs and vaccines are bad, alternative medicine is real) and region rely on feelings and traditions

They really are not similar at all

>>8287589
fox was the only network to call the trumpocalypse tho
you should demand more out of your propaganda

>>8287572
I know you're the same guy posting the other b8 pics, please continue.

>>8287593
you havent explained in any way how i was wrong

>>8287576
They do have a lot of potential to help, I keep saying that, but just because they can theoretically help doesn't justify allowing absolutely anything with the hope that they'll deliver on that theoretical help.

>Its a lot more plausible than fixing the political issues too
This makes me think that you don't really understand the issue. The political barriers can completely overshadow any theoretical mechanical potential.
We could already theoretically feed every person on the planet right now if it were merely a issue of making enough food, what gets in the way is the political and economic logistics of actually getting it to the people who need it and more nutritious food wont change that.

>>8287603
science is based on research and data
scientific claims are based on who is backing the study

>>8287603
but isn't "research and data" based off what is found through tradition of using the scientific method?

i swear, you pro science people sound just as wacky as any religious nut.

>>8287612
>but just because they can theoretically help doesn't justify allowing absolutely anything with the hope that they'll deliver on that theoretical help.
why not?
its not like those thouisands of starving people have any better option

>>8287619
science is science no matter the age, race, gender or anything that may differ in the human practicing it
science is not art, its not up to interpretation, you cant rate it 2 stars on rotten tomatoes and pick something else

>>8287612
>and more nutritious food wont change that.
Giving people in such areas GMO crops more suited to be grown in their region that require less water and land to grow on are probably more important than the nutrition, but having added nutrition would obviously also be useful

You keep talking about the us already having the food now, but its absurd to suggest that shipping crops around the world is a more cost effective or useful thing than giving people the technology to grow their food locally, and its obviously much worse for the environment if we do not invest in GMOs

>>8287619
No, data is empirical

The scientific method is just an approach to collecting the data, it is not what validates the data

>>8287615
This is literally just conspiracy bullshit you are courting

>>8287639
because it isnt the easiest way to control people right?
what today is held on a higer standar than science?
religion?
the state?
the media?
face it, if people trust it then its the perfect target for untrusty people

>>8287530

>>8287609
Yes I have. 1 gmos are not necessary to feed the world 2 promotion of these products perpetuates a predatory company store style business wherein ppl are dependant on a foreign entity for seeds and products they don't actually need

>>8287623
You're really missing the point.
Famine and malnutrition worldwide are largely not due to a lack of a nutritious crop to grow or ability to produce it on a sufficient scale, but to political and economic factors that prevent the food from getting to the people who need it. Humans can produce more food than we need, literal tons and tons of food rot on shelves and are thrown out due to minor cosmetic factors or simply to make room for new shipments.

More nutritious food will not necessarily change any of those factors that prevent people from accessing food and it is used as a smoke screen to say "why do you WANT poor people to starve!" whenever real issues with gmos and their related policies are brought up like pests developing resistance to pesticides at an increased rate since we have started to include pesticide in the plants.

>>8287570
Go ahead, call Monsanto, ask how many GMO Bambara beans they have in development? Or nyimo or Vigna subterranea... I mean since the idea is that GMO's will save the World... oh it's mostly #2yellow sent production they focus on... "let them eat #2 yellow dent" hun, you're so nice.

>>8287628
That's true for statistics and basic science. Once you get to the really advanced stuff you definitely need to form arguments for your stances and interpret your findings.

>>8287653
HERE HERE!!!!

>>8287652
depending on other countries for easily produced seeds beats the fuck out of depending on them for grown crops
>not necesary to feed the world
there is no fucking way you could possibly sustain that argument

>>8287653
if the food is produced there then the economy and politics dont matter anymore

>>8287657
depends on what you call statistics
it certainly isnt true for buzzfeed statistics

>>8287650
>what today is held on a higer standar than science?
What do you suppose should be held higher than objective truths?

>>8287652
>1 gmos are not necessary to feed the world
Not necessary, but they sure are fucking useful
What sort of retarded logic is this? We shouldn't do something because other, worse, and more expensive ways could potentially be sufficient?
This is just an insane thing to say
>2 promotion of these products perpetuates a predatory company store style business wherein ppl are dependant on a foreign entity for seeds and products they don't actually need
No it doesn't! This is just wrong. If they don't need it why would they buy it or become dependent on it, none of this argument even makes sense!

>>8287664
There are local politics too. In fact they are the biggest barrier because they are the hardest to control as an outsider.

>>8287656
What are you even talking about? What does any of that have to do with anything?
Also, stop with the Monsanto is the only biotech company in the world and has a monopoly bullshit

>>8287650
Those people in OP's photo could be starving because their village thinks they a witches...

>>8287675
>objective truths
even tho half the time we find out they where wrong in a way or another?

>>8287657
and you are better prepared to interpret this stuff than actual scientists and people who are at a minimum scientifically literate unlike you?

>>8287682
of course it still matters but it goes from killing people to being a small issue

>>8287660
>easily produced seeds
You know nothing about farming do you? Gmo seeds are extremely labor intensive. They grow hundreds of acres of gmo sunflowers for seed by my house and they have to be so careful about cross pollenation corrupting their crop they went around to all the neighbors in a 20 mile radius and asked them not to grow ornamental sunflowers.
>no way I can defend this
Plz son. Plz use a bit of logic and realize that these ppl live in good climates with historically good soil that can be easily be built back up if need be. Africa is the cradle of mankind for christs sake not mars. Why are you shilling soo hard

>>8287685
im talking about real people with actual education

>>8287686
>even tho half the time we find out they where wrong in a way or another?
The great thing about science is it is able to recognize when better data becomes available, unlike religion and pseudo-science

>>8287696
i said easily produced seeds not crops
i dobut that the genetically engenieered seeds made to gorw faster, better and in any surface are harder to grow than regular crops no matter what your pig fucker inbred neighborgs may say cornboy
there is no way you can prove it, especualtion is no proof, you just made a statement thats impossible to back up

>there are literally no educated people who are opposed to believing in evolution, using GMOs, using vaccines, or believing in global warming
>You can still find people here that will argue against them
This fucking amazes me, how can people be so dumb sometimes?

>>8287699
so they arent objective truths then because they where wrong
now go a little bit further and think about people who choose to be wrong on purpose

>>8287630
>crops more suited to be grown in their region that require less water and land to grow on are probably more important than the nutrition
That would be great and is one of the many great potentials for humanity from gmos but currently most of the actual real-world stuff revolves around pesticides.
>but its absurd to suggest that shipping crops around the world is a more cost effective or useful thing than giving people the technology to grow their food locally
I never suggested we should focus all agriculture on a centralized area and ship it out across the world. The issues that prevent local sustainability are simply more a political and education issue than a lack of adequate crops to grow.

>and its obviously much worse for the environment if we do not invest in GMOs
Now here's where I take issue. I can completely agree that we need to advance gmo technology for the future of mankind and the environment, but that's not carte blanche to do absolutely whatever you want as long as you say "don't worry, it's gmos and we'll save teh world and fix everything as long as you don't get in the way".

The specifics matter and some things like putting pesticides in plants is probably doing more harm than good. At face value it sounds great, have the plant produce it so you don't need to spray as much pesticide on the plants that can leak into the environment and you don't have to produce as much pesticides so less production pollution.
The issue is that with the pesticide as a constant part of their environment in their food the pests are developing resistance to the pesticides at a hugely increased rate compared to when it was a inconsistent factor sprayed on plants. And once they're resistant enough that's it, it doesn't matter if we switch back to spraying because they'll already be resistant so we'll just need a new pesticide which the same thing will happen to.

>>8287710
define educated
no appeal to auhority pls

>>8287712
You are confusing individuals speculating when not enough info is available with settled science.
Science will tell us when conventional wisdom is wrong as data becomes available

>>8287693
That's completely wrong. More nutritious food does absolutely nothing to change the political barriers.

>>8287719
nigga machinery can be tampered with, numbers can be changed and replaced

>>8287724
that statement has shit to do with what i was talking about

>>8287714
GMOs have dramatically reduced the use of pesticides, and have lead to the use of safer herbicides, and most importantly allow more food to be grown on less land which has dramatically reduced the burden put on the environment from farmland in America
>carte blanche to do absolutely whatever you want
No one is saying this
>some things like putting pesticides in plants is probably doing more harm than good
I very strongly disagree, it has caused a dramatic reduction in pesticide use and makes farming less labor intensive, and in fact is likely to slow the spread of resistance, not increase it. Plus this is combated with small sacrificial plots of non resistant crops which all but eliminates this risk when done properly

>>8287716
Lets just say scientifically literate people. People who could read research and understand it and not just the one paragraph summary on huffington post or some food babe type blog

>>8287683
Those are native African foodstuffs that are already suited to growing in the drought stricken areas of Africa. Yet no one is growing them in say Texas and sending the seeds in bulk to Africa, let alone GMO'ing them to solve Africa's food problem. Sorry if what I said went over your head...

It's not about GMO's feeding the World, it's about #2 yellow dent corn production in the US... that's the real basis of GMO's.

>>8287727
What? This is literally just a conspiracy theory. You cannot just say you don't believe in science because it could be fake and just believe whatever the fuck you want if you want to be taken seriously

>>8287731
I said that the issue of famine and malnutrition is more a political matter than a matter of a lack of nutritious crops to grow.

You suggested that political and economic barriers don't matter on a local level.

I responded that the local barriers are actually the most significant because they're the most resistant to outside influence.

You suggested that the issues go from people dying to a small issue without explanation or justification which I called completely wrong.

>>8287739
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323463704578496923254944066

>>8287746
>Those are native African foodstuffs that are already suited to growing in the drought stricken areas of Africa
If those are already sufficient, then what is the problem? Why are so many people malnourished?
>It's not about GMO's feeding the World, it's about #2 yellow dent corn production in the US
What do you mean by 'it'? GMOs are a lot of things, not just one crop

>>8287755
>wsj

Fucking hell I come to /ck/ because of the winter ball threads and this is the first one that pops up. This place is filled with cancer

>everyone is equal even if they squat in holes in the mud and haven't done anything for civilisation since the dawn of time
>u raciss REEEEEEEEEEE

Is it that this board has a higher proportion of women? Is that it? /lit/ has a lot of girls though and the consensus is that africans are stupid

>>8287746
>#2 yellow dent corn
Why do you just keep repeating this?

>>8287761
/pol/ brought a lot of attention here and we didn't only get right wing redditors but tumblr cunts as well

>>8287758
Suited and sufficient are two different words with different meanings.

GMO's are big business, aside from pet projects that make the company look all cuddly and compassionate about hunger, it's main focus is #2...

>>8287751
right now we live in a world where not beliving in conspiracys makes you the insane one sorry to burst your bubble
migrants conspiracy was proven right
nsa was proven right
hillary leaks proved basically iluminati is a thing
the eu is becoming a soviet union like state, right too
i do belive in science, i also hold it under severe scruteny demanding to know the name of everyone involved, their methods, their results, the people financing it and at least 3 people in other corners of the world whose names cant be disclosed replicating it with the same results
>>8287752
i said blocking crops from reaching the people is harder than stoping people from growing them with seeds they already have, i dont give a fuck what you said,
>That's completely wrong. More nutritious food does absolutely nothing to change the political barriers.
has nothing to do with what i was talking about

>>8287771
>GMO's are big business
so are the anti-GMO 'natural food' crowd
Both sides are big business, you should pick a side based on actual science, not based on what makes you feel good without actually researching anything

>>8287771
>Suited and sufficient are two different words with different meanings.
OK, but you didn't answer my question. What good is having some shit crops that are 'suited' for their land if those crops do not provide them with sufficient nutrition. This hardly seems like a reason to avoid research into GMOs

>>8287764
Because we, in the US, grew 88 million acres of it, yet most of you never heard about it untill now. We are both feeding the world with it...

>>8287779
haaha, so all science is false except stuff you like because the government lies sometimes?

>>8287771
>GMO's are big business, aside from pet projects that make the company look all cuddly and compassionate about hunger, it's main focus is #2...
Please explain what is wrong with this. Why is this bad at all? Also, soy is an even bigger market for them than corn, also whats with the weird jargon? Why not just call it corn?

>>8287761
Honestly it's because reddit/tumblr fags and r9k users frequent this board looking for "le food porn" or "EPIC bacon avocado recipes". There are quite a bit of very well educated people, awesome cooks, even a few top tier fine dining chefs. It's just that most of us don't post all that often because of the incredible idiocy and childishness that runs rampant with the Tumblr/Reddit types.

>>8287792
>Because we, in the US, grew 88 million acres of it, yet most of you never heard about it untill now
We generally call it corn

>>8287798
everyone lies sometimes
all statements are flase until i no longer can dobut them to a reasonable extent
i refuse to call a statement science just because it comes from the mouth of someone with a degree, if its science then it should have the same results in any corner of the world

>>8287709
U mad u can't disprove me bro?

>>8287802
Because when you call it corn everyone thinks you are talking about sweet delicious corn smothered in butter...

While soy production is at par with corn, I don't want to over complicate things...

>>8287807
>if its science then it should have the same results in any corner of the world
This is very true, but not sure why you would suggest current scientific consensus does not conform to that statement

Also, don't act like we are saying you should believe something because one guy with a degree said so, you should believe them because the vast majority of people with the ability to read and comprehend research have concluded that the data is sound, extensive and reproducible, which renders believing that its all just a conspiracy absurd

>>8287809
if disroving me means running 5 miles barefoot to your neighborgs house and asking him to taste some corn and guess when its going to rain no
please reffer to actual sources i can check from now on

>>8287814
>Because when you call it corn everyone thinks you are talking about sweet delicious corn smothered in butter...
ok, but when you say #2 dent they google it and see its just fucking corn. You are just trying to make yourself seem educated by misusing technical jargon

>>8287739
>GMOs have dramatically reduced the use of pesticides
And one of the ways they've done that is by putting pesticides in the plants which has consequences that I, along with many others including researchers funded by monsanto, believe is a major concern.

>it has caused a dramatic reduction in pesticide use
Yes they don't need to spray as much pesticide when it's engineered to grow in the plant but if the pesticide becomes ineffective from resistance then the costs will be MUCH greater.

>in fact is likely to slow the spread of resistance, not increase it
Everything I've read on the topic suggests the opposite but I'd love to see any research that suggests otherwise.

>Plus this is combated with small sacrificial plots of non resistant crops which all but eliminates this risk when done properly
That's literally just polyculture that's smart agriculture gmos or no and does absolutely nothing for the issue of increasing pesticide resistance in general.

Gmos aren't all or nothing, it's not a choice between outlawing all genetic modification as the devil or allowing absoluetly anything no questions asked as long as it's you say it's for gmos and outlawing disagreement as anti-science hate speech.

>>8287759
>it's a conspiracy! only sources that agree with me allowed

>>8287816
>but not sure why you would suggest current scientific consensus does not conform to that statement
because politics have become more corrupt than ever and they are constantly mendling in every aspect of the world
of course the goverment isnt the only one doing it, everyone is doing it
>the vast majority of people with the ability to read and comprehend research have concluded that the data is sound
if everyone in the world belives 2+2 = 5 its still 4

>>8287804
>whole thread is obvious /pol/ bait and first response is blatant /pol/ shitposting outside their containment board
>it's all teh fault of da ebil plebbit mumblr boogeyman!

>>8287820
So triggered
>dyef do you even farm?
Anyone who knows even the basics wouldn't have to ask for these basic facts

>>8287822
Not at all. That's where the bulk of research money is spent. The entire argument is the World is starving, GMO's will save the day. With little money being spent on that initiative, what's your point in this? So do you have any family recipes for field corn?

>>8287823
>And one of the ways they've done that is by putting pesticides in the plants which has consequences that I, along with many others including researchers funded by monsanto, believe is a major concern.
It is a concern, and one that is being addressed, but don't act like thats reason to stop using GMOs, when in fact the problem is even worse with non-GMOs
>Yes they don't need to spray as much pesticide when it's engineered to grow in the plant
This still results in a dramatic decrease of the amount of pesticide entering the environment.as the pesticide is now used only where it is needed and doesn't have to be constantly reapplied as it stays in place and doesn't wash off. The difference in the amount of pesticide is actually quite dramatic.
>That's literally just polyculture that's smart agriculture gmos or no and does absolutely nothing for the issue of increasing pesticide resistance in general.
Providing a small percentage of crops which pests can eat removes the pressure to develop resistance, so not sure where you are coming from there
>Gmos aren't all or nothing, it's not a choice between outlawing all genetic modification as the devil or allowing absoluetly anything no questions asked
Sure, but if you have a general fearful attitude toward scientific consensus it is not doing us any good. No one is saying evil corporations should do whatever the fuck they want. Just that GMOs have been pretty fucking good to us so far and the well organized resistance to them by the 'natural food' lobby is harmful to humanity

>>8287832
>if everyone in the world belives 2+2 = 5 its still 4
yep, the great thing about science is that its true regardless of who believes in it. Not sure how your statement there actually supports your naive viewpoint though

>>8287856
>That's where the bulk of research money is spent.
Its certainly true that most of the research goes into commercial crops, but that doesn't make the rest of the research any less existent. I fail to see how any of what you are saying makes GMOs bad
The fact that they are researching stuff that effects the majority of cropland is surely great for the environment as it will have the greatest effect

>>8287838
OP asked a question. And got answers. Then you triggered fatasses arrived and derailed the thread.

>>8287804

>being high and mighty on a board about shoving objects down your throat

>>8287871
its such a shame there is a knowledge wall between anyone and any aspect of it and it would take a couple lifetimes to know enough to guess when anyone bullshits you

>>8287894
Gmo shills mang

>>8287929
lol yeah, us food babe/Whole Foods shills are so much better!

>>8287881
Again you think that they are using less chemicals when in fact they are using more. (Monsanto's Roundup sales are down 12% due to International bans, not decreased domestic use).

My argument is that GMO's have little to do with solving world hunger.

Sanitation/hygiene, water, farming vs gathering, sooo much in play in Africa beyond a well bred piece of corn...

>>8287957
>Again you think that they are using less chemicals when in fact they are using more
Roundup use has surely increased, but overall combined pesticide and herbicide euse has declined thanks to GMO

Plus it should not be lost that glyphosate is much nicer on the environment that most of the herbicides it replaced

Surely the current state of world hunger is not the primary factor for why GMOs are good, but its important to keep in kind that they are a serious factor, and with CRISPR, developing new GM strains will become significantly cheaper to the scale that even smaller universities should be able to get in the game so the future is pretty promising, which makes it even more frustrating when leftist groups like Greenpeace try and obstruct any form of GM science, or when governments in europe ban them as a form of economic protectionism (maybe this will be less common now that Monsanto was bought by a German company), or when shady 'organic' lobbying and marketing firms get states like Vermont to pass backwards anti-GMO bills and in general spend lots of fucking money trying to trick Americans into think genetic modification is scary and unhealthy

>>8287864
>but don't act like thats reason to stop using GMOs
See this is my whole issue, nowhere have I suggested that we stop using gmos, that's entirely your imagination and you're proving my point.

I'm complaining that you can't ask any questions or say anything about potential misuse of a powerful tool or potential political issues surrounding related policies without having people like you popping out to strawman "geez why do you want to ban all gmos and force poor people to starve?! why do you hate science?!"

>This still results in a dramatic decrease of the amount of pesticide entering the environment
Yes, that's not the point, it feels like you're only half-reading what I say. My issue is entirely with the increase in pesticide resistance and it being an example of how although gmos are not "bad" they are a powerful tool that could have unintended consequences and must be used with care and oversight.

>removes the pressure to develop resistance, so not sure where you are coming from there
Polyculture and sacrificial crops are good agriculture policy in general.
It does not however remove the pressure, it just reduces it. If it was completely effective then there would be no need to have pesticides at all because the pests would just be eating the sacrificial crop and wouldn't bother the main crop. But they do eat the main crop too, necessitating pesticide use and while pesticides produced by the plant reduce the overall use of pesticides and their leaking into the environment it increases the rate at which pests develop resistance.

>No one is saying evil corporations should do whatever the fuck they want.
No but absolutely any questioning of policy is strawmanned as "ban all gmos they're literally the posion devil" and met with emotional appeals of "why do you want poor people to starve?", you yourself have been doing it to some extent putting words in my mouth.
I absolutely hate the "natural food crowd" because they distract from the real issues .

>>8287894
>post /pol/ thread and make /pol/ shitposts out of containment board
>geez what's with all these people shitposting in a bait thread
gee I wonder

Oh and you're projecting your weight issues on anonymous strangers on a korean finger painting board. Maybe just go for a jog instead of getting triggered, tubby.

>>8288044
how about you go to tumblr instead?
its obvious tumblrposters are 1000 times worse than pol has ever been

>>8288015
No it hasn't. If anything in the past farm workers had to take more care in application, now, I have watched horrorible application practices because it no longer needs careful or attentive application. Even with the constant loss of farmland in the US to development, herbicide and pesticide sale are going up.

>>8287935
Huh you know I looked through the whole thread and not one person said that whole foods co. Would end world hunger

I thought /tv/ was the most Reddit board. Whitey stole our farmin, there's literally nothing wrong with Africa, YOU DIDNT BUILD THAT!

A trifecta!

>>8288034
>I'm complaining that you can't ask any questions or say anything about potential misuse of a powerful tool or potential political issues surrounding related policies without having people like you popping out to strawman
Except this didn't really happen. Whats going on is more akin to climate deniers saying "what if all science is a conspiracy bro?", you are just raising vague unfounded and misleading fears

Sure it is possible to misuse the technology, but to suggest that we don't have sufficient measures in place to protect from this is misleading at best if not straight up disingenuous

>My issue is entirely with the increase in pesticide resistance
again, this is not a problem unique or even more prevalent with GMOs, the haphazard and greater application of pesticides on pre-GMO crops is much worse with this regard
> If it was completely effective then there would be no need to have pesticides at all because the pests would just be eating the sacrificial crop and wouldn't bother the main crop
um, that doesn't make sense. What would the difference between the sacrificial crops and the main crop be in this scenario if no GMOs or pesticides were used? A sacrificial crop is planting a small percent of no resistant crops alongside or within you main crop of resistant crops, it all but eliminates the probability of this field leading to resistance as the biochemical pathways required to develop resistance are inefficient and will not propagate in a population when not needed for survival.
Note this technique can not really be done efficiently without GMOs as spraying is very non-specific and haphazard, with GMOs you can now just buy the seed with a small percent of non-resistant seeds mixed in so effort on the part of the farmer is required
>No but absolutely any questioning of policy
There has been no questioning of policies, just strawmen about how evil corporations are and how scientists are making everything up

>>8288062
Use of roudnup has increased, use of more dangerous herbicides has decreased, and use of much more harmful pesticides has decreased dramatically, leading to an overall decrease of agricultural pollution of pesticides and herbicides in the waterways

>Even with the constant loss of farmland in the US to development
Farmland is decreasing much more quickly than development because better technology allows us to feed more people with less land, development is not really a factor, these days

The only thing increasing the use of pesticides is organic farmers and their backwards outdated policies toward GM crops

>>8288084
>Except this didn't really happen
Except even just in our brief conversation you keep arguing against things that I haven't said and trying to portray me as wanting to ban all gmos. You disprove your own statement and support mine.

I've merely brought up a single point of concern about pesticide resistance and you keep trying to claim it doesn't exist, or if it does it's irrelevant, or if it's not irrelevant they'll just fix it and I'm just being an anti-science conspiracy theorist trying to ban all gmnos for even mentioning it.

> but to suggest that we don't have sufficient measures in place to protect from this is misleading at best if not straight up disingenuous
It's much more disingenuous, misleading, and downright willfully ignorant and dangerous for you to suggest that we totally 100% have all necessary measures to ensure that nothing could possibly ever go wrong and to even consider the possibility or ask questions about specific issues is anti-science.
History is full of cases where unforeseen and unintended issues and consequences have arisen both naturally and from our actions and technology that we have had to deal with.

For you to suggest that we will never encounter another issue that we didn't foresee and prepare for is absolutely anti-science and downright retarded. We didn't even foresee the increased rate of resistance development in pests and although we are hard at work on solutions taking for granted that solutions will automatically arise and we will never again fail to predict something is bafflingly deluded.

>this is not a problem unique or even more prevalent with GMOs, the haphazard and greater application of pesticides on pre-GMO crops is much worse with this regard
It's pretty clear that ANY tool can be misused to disasterous effect and gmos are no different which is why I take issue with you demonizing and strawmanning any questions about gmo use as trying to ban them all.

>>8288154
>Except even just in our brief conversation you keep arguing against things that I haven't said and trying to portray me as wanting to ban all gmos.
Note I was responding to not only you

>>8288061
Fucking this. At least /pol/ you can easily ignore and they'll eventually fucking leave. Not these triggered trogdolytes

>>8288154
>It's much more disingenuous, misleading, and downright willfully ignorant and dangerous for you to suggest that we totally 100%
I think we very clearly have beyond what we should reasonably have, in fact we probably are more obstructionist than would be prudent. There is no plausible risk that something dangerous to human health would enter the commercial market with current regulations.
You characterize this as some mysterious poorly understood subject when in fact a fucking lot of time and money has been spent researching it

>History is full of cases where unforeseen and unintended issues and consequences have arisen both naturally and from our actions and technology that we have had to deal with
Sure, but we are still really well off today, much better than we would be if we had obstructed progress altogether as the organizations I am here complaining about are trying to do
>We didn't even foresee the increased rate of resistance development in pests
Jesus Christ man, stop spreading this myth. People are not surprised that using pesticides can cause lead to resistance, thats been commons sense since our understanding of genetics became clear,, but thats hardly reason not to use pesticides at all

>which is why I take issue with you demonizing and strawmanning any questions about gmo use as trying to ban them all.
In my very first post in this thread I made it clear I was taking aim at leftist environmental organizations specifically Greenpeace, so please do not think every statement I make is about your personal beliefs, this has never been about you

>>8288084
You're getting hung up on the sacrificial crops and entirely missing the larger point.

Sacrificial crops are great in general, the pests eat more of them instead of your main crop so you don't need pesticides as much.
But they still do eat your main crop. So you need pesticides and pests will slowly gain resistance the more you use them. The sacrificial crop helps again here, as you keep mentioning, the pests that eat them instead of the main crop with pesticide aren't exposed to the chemical so they don't develop resistance. But they do still eat the main crop too, and most will die, but some may survive and pass on their resistance.
If they weren't eating the main crop at all then you wouldn't need traditional or engineered pesticides.
Pesticides generally don't repel pests, they poison them, but it often takes some time and the pests still need to eat some first.

All other things being equal, plants engineered to produce pesticides lead to an increased rate of resistance development compared to traditional spray pesticides even though traditional methods use more pesticides and they leak into the environment more. Misuse of pesticides make it worse and compared to that the gmo plants may induce resistance slower, but they still do it faster than proper traditional pesticide use.

I'm not saying ban all gmos, and that you can't see that and keep saying there are absolutely no problems, never will be, and we'll definitely fix them anyway so it doesn't matter, kind of proves my point.

>>8288157
Well you're responding to my posts.
I don't control what other people say or think so it's silly for you to try to hold me accountable and talk to me as if I represent them.

If you can't respond to what I actually say then I have to think you're assuming and imagining what I think which you keep responding to.

>>8288161
>/pol/ bait thread
>first post is /pol/ shitposting
>continued shitposting throughout entire thread
>b-but if you just ignore them then they'll leave!...someday...

>>8288216
And you took the b8. Welcome to 4chan, newfag. Notice how other people didn't and there was a topic related to the OPs post? Weird huh

>>8288216
If I ignore you will you leave?
At least 7 posts until auto sage and I won't have to see this shit anymore

>>8288201
>If they weren't eating the main crop at all then you wouldn't need traditional or engineered pesticides.
The only thing distinguishing the main body of crop for the sacrificial ones is the use of pesticide whether sprayed or genetically engineered. There is no alternative where no pesticide is necessary as thats just not how the system works and doesn't make any sense.Note that this works because pesticide resistance does not propagate in a population when significant numbers of non resistant organisms are able to survive as pesticide resistance traits will never render an organism as fit as the normal organism eating normal crops

>All other things being equal, plants engineered to produce pesticides lead to an increased rate of resistance development compared to traditional spray pesticides even though traditional methods use more pesticides and they leak into the environment more
Are there any studies suggesting this? Especially when planted properly?

>and that you can't see that and keep saying there are absolutely no problems, never will be
No, I am saying there are no problems worthy of the extreme obstructionism currently in place (which is only getting worse as the organic lobby tricks more people with fearmongering) and that using GMO crops is better than not using them for both humanity and the environment

>>8288216
you can stop posting and kill yourself, doing us all a favour anytime.

>>8288177
>There is no plausible risk that something dangerous to human health would enter the commercial market with current regulations.
Yeah there are NEVER outbreaks of food poisoning or toxins in baby toys or recalls of medicine that had unforseen side effects or anything like that and never in all of history has a company tried to cover stuff like that up :^)

>You characterize this as some mysterious poorly understood subject when in fact a fucking lot of time and money has been spent researching it
And you characterise it as if we already know everything there is and ever could be on the topic and ongoing research means it's IMPOSSIBLE for anything unforeseen to happen or be discovered which makes me think you have absolutely no understanding of science and just use it as a buzzword to appeal to authority.

>Sure, but we are still really well off today, much better than we would be if we had obstructed progress altogether as the organizations I am here complaining about are trying to do
Wow so you're seriously trying to argue that there's absolutely no middle ground between banning all gmos and progress or giving more oversight and thought towards possible specific issues.
I seriously hope you're just baiting me and aren't really this stupid.

>Jesus Christ man, stop spreading this myth Facts aren't myths just when they trigger your feels, bro.
Pesticide use pressures resistance development. Overuse/misuse makes it even worse, but putting it in the plant increases makes it worse compared to traditional pesticides when they're not misused/over used.
>but thats hardly reason not to use pesticides at all
Geez this is a common theme for you that you can't comprehend a middle ground, it's either all of nothing for you.
It's unthinkable to you that we could promote responsible use of pesticides and reduce their overuse, nope the only options are ban them all or use as much as possible with no questions.

>>8288223
And you keep responding too, retard.

>this thread
What a fucking shitshow it turned into. I want reddit to leave.

>>8288233
>There is no alternative where no pesticide is necessary as thats just not how the system works and doesn't make any sense
I really can't hold a conversation if you're not going to respond to what I say, I mean you might as well just be talking with yourself.

>

.

>>8288277
>>8288269

Let's be honest. If these people can't feed themselves and never will be able to, they should just be allowed to perish. It's sad, but they're either living somewhere unsuitable for agriculture, or not intellectually suited for life,

Karl Pilkington is right. We can't just send them food forever.

>>8288282
But dats rayciss

>>8288282
But I agree. How're they ever gonna progress when they get free food all the time? Kinda like feeding wild animals. Eventually they'll rely on you for food.

>>8288260
>Yeah there are NEVER outbreaks of food poisoning or toxins in baby toys
This is entirely unrelated
>recalls of medicine that had unforseen side effects
This is related, but extremely rare, and we don't really have anyone arguing that it is too easy to get a drug approved, in fact there are all sorts of lifesaving drugs and procedures delayed for years through bureaucracy. Plus this risk hardly exists with the addition of genes to crops we already eat, these are not unknown chemicals never consumed by humans before, the risk is much much higher with medicine
>And you characterise it as if we already know everything there is and ever could be on the topic
No, I am saying that we know enough to say its worth the minimal risk
>Wow so you're seriously trying to argue that there's absolutely no middle ground between banning all gmos and progress or giving more oversight and thought towards possible specific issues.
No, I am saying we already found that middle ground, and did so a while ago. You are acting like GM crops are some completely unregulated wild west, the industry is very highly regulated. I am arguing that the current checks in place are sufficient (which is the same stance held by the vast majority of scientists in the industry and out), if not a little overkill. I am certainly not arguing that no regulations should exist
> but putting it in the plant increases makes it worse compared to traditional pesticides when they're not misused/over used.
You keep saying this without any evidence or even a logical explanation for why it would be true. Using more pesticides as organic farmers and preGM farmers did is worse that the careful and direct use GM crops allow
>It's unthinkable to you that we could promote responsible use of pesticides
Thats literally what I am doing here. I am saying farmers should heed the advice of scientists and plant their crops in such a way as to avoid resistance, research shows this is extremely effective.

>>8287528

We can outbreed our production capacity quite easily if we put black dicks to it.

>>8288216

>complaining about /pol/ on 4chan

you numale coal burners never cease to make me laugh

there are literally hundreds of other safe spaces to go to on the internet

>>

>>8286375
>metrology

>>8288044
/pol/ isn't a containment board faggot, we fucking run this site and as of January 20 we'll be running the free world too

>>8287539

> growing world population will be a major problem

Yay science.

>>8287913
I really don't think there's anything lowly about nutrition.