/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Huh?

>>7999812
Knife cut in kitchen, food. I'm sure you've used one. I need one that's not trash.

>>7999819
Huh?

>>7999812
i think i know what you're doing and i'm on board too

Sabatier

Accept NO substitutes

Try a victronox 10" i love mine great handle on it never had a problems with nicks in the blade and i am rough on it (sous chef in denver 9-5) easy to sharpen

>>7999828

also, i reckon it will be a robotically charged mcshill.

called it!

>>7999890
Is this the one? This is on amazon. The other 10" with a black handle is half the price but the comments say it's actually a cheaper 8" knife. Though I don't know if it's worse in quality to the bigger knife. I'd sacrifice a few inches for half the price is the blade and metal quality was the same.

>>7999906
This?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008M5U1C2/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3GI8UXR1GQ3NJ&coliid=IZPZ4OHF9UCJC&psc=1

Cause this one is great bang for the buck. Also, consider getting the sheath.

>Quality
>Gyuto
>Knife

Get a whetstone

Similar shape to the blade of a typical Chefs Knife
Same functionality
Sharp as fuck
Great looks
Amazing performance. Use mine at work and it's a pleasure

Find a quality knife that is good for you, slight technique preference dictates what style of knife fits you best.

>>7999810

I got an Ikea knife in 2004 and it still cuts well.

I'm as amazed as you.

I have a high-quality ceramic knife that I got as a christmas present two years ago but honestly I'm still using the ikea knife - it works fine and I'm less afraid of accidentally wrecking it.

Spyderco Santoku

Victorinox is pretty good for the price. I'd also recommend a Global, I absolutely love it.

>>7999810
Happy with my Kiwis. Cheap as all fuck, soft ass steel, works great.

Victorinox Fibrox has a $30 chromoly chef knife that works fine.

Just looked at a $500 knife. It's pretty. But for that kind of money I could set up a whole kitchen full of cutlery.

If you want something special then find out what works best and have it made from carbon steel, then take good care of it. Blacksmiths aren't that expensive, and you'll have an heirloom instead of a meme.

Get a Mercer. They're great and you don't need to blow $60-$100 on a knife if you're just a hobbyist who doesn't cut through 60 dishes a day. It's what I've used for years. No ragrets, would shill

https://www.amazon.com/Wusthof-Cordon-8-Inch-Cooks-Knife/dp/B0001WN9VO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471522590&sr=8-1&keywords=wusthof+knives+cordon+bleu

Bought this knife about 6 months ago, and loving it.

>>7999810
i've got a ceramic knife. they're a joy to use, but cant cut through bones or fruits with stones

>>8000633
Neither should your steel knife. There's cleavers for that. It's not just the heavier blade, the grind is different and less vulnerable.

>>7999810
I don't really like chef knives for anything.
<Flint vanadium stainless, use for everything, never dulls, but I doubt you can find a vintage one like this.

>>8000642

>>7999890
Victorinox is fucking wobbly shit but is good for when I don't wanna demolish my good knife.

Had my global stolen from me a few months back, couldn't afford to replace it but with the peak of our busy season approaching I will most likely be picking up another G-2 unless someone here can convince me that this piece of shit
>>7999890
is somehow superior.

>>7999810
Zwilling J.A. Henckels is probably the best bang for your buck. You can get a super high quality 8" chef's knife from them for around $150, maybe less if you can find a sale. I have their Twin Four Star II chef knife and have not had to send it out for sharpening once in the 5 years I have had it. Regular honing keeps it working perfectly. Pic related.

>>8001170
And anyone who tells you that Japanese knives are sharper, they are full of shit. Henckels uses a 15% edge angle which is the same as a Jung or other overpriced Japanese chef's knife. German engineering is GOAT.

>>8001173
15 degree... not percent.

>>7999810
Victronox or Global are the best personally,

It's all we use at work

>>8001173
>measuring your brands by how "sharp" they come out of the box
Reminder that people who buy german knives know most of what they "know" based on the Macy's cutlery catalog
>muh full tang
>muh rivets
>muh ice hardening

isn't the major difference between east and west knives is the east sharpen only one side?

>>8002952
No, and while we're at it let's dispense with a few more:
>folded a gorillion times: no
>made of pig iron: no
>always rat-tail tang: no
>always paper-thin and fragile: no
>always 12.000.000 JPY: no
Comparing "east" and "west" knives doesn't make sense. The comparison most people are really making is between mid-market Solingen knives and mid-market Japanese knives. The key difference is that mid-market Solingen knives are all fairly similar to one another whereas mid-market Japanese knives take design cues from literally everyone: Chinese, Germans, French, Americans, and, of course, Japanese

>>7999810
Get yourself either a Tojiro dp 210-240mm gyuto
>https://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-DP-Gyutou-8-2-21cm/dp/B000UAPQGS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471566002&sr=8-1&keywords=tojiro+dp

or a K Sabatier in stainless
>https://www.amazon.com/French-Sabatier-Forged-Stainless-Knife/dp/B007NZMKHQ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1471565949&sr=8-4&keywords=k+sabatier

Both of these knives are classic and extremely versatile blade shapes and made by respected brands. Japanese wa handles are a meme in my opinion and a nice western handle just appeals to my sensibilities so much more and are better when cutting up something sloppy for a long time.

Or if you HAVE to go german, I learned on this guy. My dad has had his for ~30 years and he gave me one when I was learning to cook in college. They are tanks, but they dont really cut as cleanly and the bolster can get annoying when you resharpen it on a stone.
>https://www.amazon.com/ZWILLING-J-Henckels-Four-Star-8-inch/dp/B00004RFKS/ref=sr_1_4?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1471566143&sr=1-4&keywords=zwilling+j.a.+henckels

I don't recommend buying a knife over $100 until you know what you are doing and you don't need to ask people for advice. Save that fancy custom kiritsuke with the powdered steel with the fukkin sick pattern weld for another day, my man.

>>8000645
>>8000642
You're a fucking idiot.

>>7999906
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/2835/chef-knives.html?vendor=Victorinox&gclid=CjwKEAjwudW9BRDcrd30kovf8GkSJAB3hTxFuRhKuZV_ZQhRbA2RswY_grY9R9EbSEY_ViTDRfmnaRoCSfDw_wcB
Third one on the list like 45 bucks had mine for about a year and a half with the fibrox handle

>>7999810

Learn how to sharpen freehand first or any money invested into a chef's knife will be money wasted.

People who don't know how to sharpen their knives on a whetstone should stick to $2 Walmart knives.

>>8003045
>knives have tribal tattoos now
are they gluten free though?

>>8002833
> Not reading the original post
Anyone with experience with a good quality german knife knows that they come sharp and stay sharp for a very long time before needing to be sharpened. They hold an edge VERY well. The only people who think Japanese knives are better are weebs who think >muh samurai steel.

>>8003307
I disagree completely. Perfect sharpening is a trade that takes time to master. Get a good knife that doesn't need to be sharpened often and when it does need to be sharpened once every several years, have it done professionally.

>>8004483
>he thinks Japanese knives are made of pig iron from some Japanese riverbed and smelted in a furnace by hand by an elderly Japanese gentleman
Please. German knives were always the poorfag's choice. They were the knockoffs of Sheffield knives. Sadly for the German knife industry, they were a one-trick pony and they're going the way of Detroit. Better metallurgy came along. This better metallurgy is no state secret. Japan does it. Sweden does it. America does it. But Germans are obstinate retards and refuse. They're trying to sell outdated, wallowing, low-tech luxo-barges in a world of Priuses and Teslas, and shrieking like a spoiled toddler when anyone suggests that they perhaps consider they get with the times

MAKE SOLINGEN GREAT AGAIN shrieked the Wusthof fag, before bashing another tomato into pulp with the least blunt edge of his teutonic meat axe

Get a good vintage carbon steel knife and restore it yourself.

>>8004488
>Once every several years

Hello non-sharpening plebfriend.

A regularly used home chef's knife needs to either be touched up at least weekly or sharpened at least monthly to not become butter knife dull.

Thinking that any knife could go SEVERAL YEARS between sharpenings just admits that you've no idea what you are talking about and have never handled an actually sharp knife.

That's okay though, most people have never used an actually sharp knife either, plebfriend.

>>8004491
This better metallurgy that is so common. Care to share a link?

>>8004495
Are you using a knife made of styrophome? I use my chef's knife a few times a week, hone before every use, and take good care of it. I have never had to have it sharpened and it can still slice a tomato so thin you can see through it.

If you sharpen your knife weekly in a few years youll be out of steel.

Or are you one of those plebs who doesn't know the difference between honing and sharpening?

>>8004491
>teutonic meat axe
nice, gonna start calling all my knives that

>>8004496
http://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/products/
http://www.e-tokko.com/
http://www.uddeholm.com/
http://www.home.sandvik/en/

>>7999810
I'd start with Victorinox or Ikea. Güde if you want to spend more for something cool, albeit many of them do not have too much of a practical advantage over a recent Victorinox or Ikea knife.

You could also go with some Japanese knife (of which there are quite many good ones, stainless or not). Amazon.jp or japanesechefsknife definitely already have a lot of good ones with okay prices.

But most of the Japanese knifes will come with an implicit requirement to have *more* than one sharpening stone to maintain well over time.

>>8004500
I agree with this.

I hone my knives almost every time I use them.

I sharpen once or twice per year.

Plenty sharp for all cooking tasks.

I wish I had a sharp knife.
I basically hate to brute force my way through a beef brisket earlier so I could dice it up for my stew.

>>8004491
Someone asking what their first chef's knife should be shouldn't be buying a $700 micro-carbide knife. A good quality stainless steel knife in the 50-150 range>>8002833
is what he should be looking for.

>>8004491
This is true. The German brands that do sell the most technologically advanced knives manufacture them in Japan. Only the traditionally made knives are made in Germany.

>>8004508 (cont'd)
By the way, the small Vic pairing knifes (extremely brilliant, these cheap things!) and a bigger Güde pairing knife see as much use as the Chef's knife in my kitchen.

Maybe you already have knifes like that, but I'd simply suggest to not JUST get a Chef's knife.

>>8004518
>german knife shilling intensifies
Where do you krauts come up with this shit?

Just give it up Hermann, it's all over. Germany on suicide watch.

>>8004524
>The German brands that do sell the most technologically advanced knives manufacture them in Japan.
Nah, the genuine Solingen knifes are just as "modern" in many instances, even if they also do more traditional designs. Pic related, best bread knife I know (though arguably too expensive for most people, get a genuine Swiss Victorinox if you want great but not quite as big and expensive).

Not too few of the mass market brands have their knifes manufactured in Japan though, sure.

>>8004530
How was I shilling german knives in that post?

The knife in your image is not made with the newfangled steel you like to shill, it is a cheap stamped knife that you can find manufactured anywhere in the world.

But no it has a Japanese name so it must be superior. Nice weeb.

>>8004500

Honing only works on under-hardened German knives, and you'd be much better off doing a brief touch up on a proper abrasive than trying to use a honing rod, particularly if you buy properly hardened cutlery.

Honing just uses a hard surface to try and forcibly realigned the microscopically rolled portions of thr apex back into a straight line.

As you might imagine, the repeated plastic deformation inflicted on an apex is not very good for its strength, snd in any case, knives hardened above ~60 HRC are likely to microscopically chip fairly severely at the apex if you attempt to "hone" them.

Also, if you learn to sharpen properly, sharpening removes only a few microns of steel and it would take several thousand hand sharpenings to consume the blade.

The ability to slice a tomato only says your knife is not butter knife dull, but not that it is sharp. Cleanly slicing raw proteins (especially raw chicken) is a much better test of sharpness.

In any case, buying expensive cutlery is a total waste unless you plan to maintain the edge, as the vast majority of the cost is in the steel and heat treatment you won't be taking advantage of.

You'd be better off buying the cheapest thinnest knives you can get and just throwing them away at least yearly, rather than spending hundreds on a knife you will never see the true performance of.

>>8004543
>VG-10 is not a newfangled steel
Amazing, you managed to be a luddite and an insufferable steel-of-the-week cutlery hipster, both at the same time!

>>8004546
>Learn how to remove a few atoms of steel at a time from a knife before you buy your first knife.

>>8004546
>As you might imagine, the repeated plastic deformation inflicted on an apex is not very good for its strength, snd in any case, knives hardened above ~60 HRC are likely to microscopically chip fairly severely at the apex if you attempt to "hone" them.

Part one is incorrect. Honing a blade has no negative impact on its strength..
Part two is correct, knives that hard need to be sharpened more frequently which is one reason they are less suited to home cooks.

>Also, if you learn to sharpen properly, sharpening removes only a few microns of steel and it would take several thousand hand sharpenings to consume the blade.

This is a skill that takes time to master. Unless OP wants to take a knife sharpening class before buying a knife, he should get one that requires sharpening less often. A novice sharpening a blade is likely to fuck up the edge angle at best.

>The ability to slice a tomato only says your knife is not butter knife dull, but not that it is sharp. Cleanly slicing raw proteins (especially raw chicken) is a much better test of sharpness.
Bullshit. Slicing through a tomato skin requires a sharp blade to not mash the tomato. Raw protein can be pushed through with a dull blade by applying enough force.

r8 my knives

>>8004603
Tojiro - Why not. Useful.
Other two - don't care, probably paid too much.

>>8004593

So please explain the physical mechanism by which a honing rod works if it is not plastic deformation, and if you admit it is plastic deformation, explain how the repeated plastic deformation of a metal won't weaken it in a manner akin to bending a coat hanger wire back and forth causes it to weaken and then ultimately fail.

Learning to sharpen on a whetstone is not that hard, there are very good tutorials on YouTube.

Also, the difference in edge retention between the least and most wear resistant steels in at best ~2 or 3 to one, so spending big money on a knife that will be dull as shit in a few extra months is silly.

The thinnest cheapest knife you can get is always the right answer for people who don't sharpen because the cheap thin knives at least have a thin geometry to cut with when dull.

I said slicing raw proteins, not pushing through. I can make clean slices length wise through a raw chicken breast like a sushi chef with a yangiba because my knives are kept sharp as fuck.

>>8004725

Classical steeling rods were not smooth, it's always been intended a combo of burnishing and honing. Modern ceramic and diamond covered steels do it even better.

>>8004848

You're wrong. Modern abrasive 'steels' are sharpening tools made to look like honing steels because they're made for hipsters who think it's traditional.

An actual honing steel is, indeed, not smooth though. It has longitudinal ridges which are intended to contact the end of the blade at a shallow angle and comb any deformation out of the edge of the blade.

>>8004871
>comb any deformation out of the edge of the blade.

No, they work like a file. They remove metal from the blade. You can clearly see this on antique carving sets like pic related. See how the edge of the knife has so much metal removed from it?

>>8004888
forgot my pic like a tard

>>8004848
>lassical steeling rods were not smooth

Correct. Here's a closeup of one that's roughly 100 years old. Notice the serrations.

Modern ones might be ceramic abrasive or diamond-coated steel. In any case they are abrasive and remove small amounts of metal from the blade.

>>8003051
You literally can't buy it. Find me one on ebay and I'll back off.
Chefs knives are all around useless garbage with no real life applications besides full heads of lettuce, which you should be dismantling and washing before you cut anyways.

Someone please explain why a 3.5 inch wide easily dulled blade that you have to treat like a two year old child is better than a 3/4 inch wide serrated knife that needs no maintenance?
Have you ever chopped a raw steak? An onion? Why use a slippery blade that doesn't grab, increasing your risk of injury?

I am quite happy with deli/serrated, so please, read global rule 3 and fuck off will you?

>>8004901
>better than a 3/4 inch wide serrated knife

Serrated knives are useless for many cooking tasks. They don't work for chopping and force you to use a slicing motion instead. That's much slower, They're also impractical to use for small delicate tasks like mincing garlic or herbs.

>>Have you ever chopped a raw steak? An onion?
Yes, many times. I chop raw steak to make tartare. I chop raw pork to make mapo tofu, or if I want to make a little breakfast sausage and don't feel like breaking out and cleaning the meat grinder. These tasks are much easier with a straight edged knife.

>Why use a slippery blade that doesn't grab, increasing your risk of injury?
I agree anon, dull knives are not only ineffective, but dangerous.

this is all that you need

https://www.amazon.com/Shun-DM0712-Classic-Chinese-Vegetable/dp/B0000Y7L6W

German knives have their place. Personally I use a Henckels pro chef knife for heavy chopping or breaking down things like large squashes. I like the weight and balance for those types of jobs although that's obviously personal preference.

When I'm doing more fine slicing or working with meats and fish I break out a Yoshihiro gyuto knife.

Generally japanese knives hold a sharper edge for longer but are lighter and less comfortable to work with. German knives are more comfortable and require less maintenance. They can get by with a few runs across a honing rod before use and don't need to be whetstone sharpened as often.

>>8004919
I don't mess with garlic and herbs but I can see a straight edge being better. I have tremors and find the serrations make it much safer to cut onions, the sawing motion really isn't necessary, one draw backwards and it cuts clean.
The knife I posted does have 1 inch unserrated on the tip, which I use for those finer cuts like pepper ribs or steak trimming. It's not really visible but it gets used.
I'm too twitchy and stuck in my ways to bother with my chef's knife, I only use knives for vegetables and steak. Try chopping baby carrots with a sharp chef's knife for the lulz.

>>8004927
>German knives have their place.

I agree. It's not a question of one being better than the other, it's a matter of balancing pros and cons.

The (generally) softer steel and thicker blade of the German style knife makes it more durable. If I have to break down a bunch of chickens & chop the carcass up for stock I want a knife that I can just chop down wherever and not worry about chipping it on bone. For that application I'll choose a German style knife any day.

OTOH if I'm slicing vegetables then I'm going to reach for the thinner and sharper Jap style knife.

It's like saying which is better: a ferrari or a cargo van? The choice depends entirely on the application. I wouldn't want to take a date out in a cargo van, nor would I want to move using a ferrari.

>>8004901
>Can't sharpen a knife

>>8004543
>The knife in your image is not made with the newfangled steel you like to shill
Yes it is you retard.
>it is a cheap stamped knife that you can find manufactured anywhere in the world.
No. It's a powder-steel core with a softer clading. You're a retard and know nothing. Now please go.

>>8004725
>So please explain the physical mechanism by which a honing rod works if it is not plastic deformation, and if you admit it is plastic deformation, explain how the repeated plastic deformation of a metal won't weaken it in a manner akin to bending a coat hanger wire back and forth causes it to weaken and then ultimately fail.
There is something called a fatigue threshold. You can have plastic deformation without fatigue, you can have non-permanent deformation _with_ fatigue and any other combination of the three. They are unrealted. But as anon said, it's not all just banging the steel back into shape. Most rods actually remove a fair bit of material. Optimaly just the weakened false edge you're so worried about.

>>8004940
>I don't mess with garlic and herbs
So you don't cook. Opinion discarded. Go play with your serrated knives somewhere safe.

>>8004940
>I dont mess with garlic or herbs
oh wow

Why do you think you have an opinion that matters?

>>8004603
Don't know about the Tojiro but
Good taste/10

>>8004974
I have zero access to fresh herbs in the Appalachian mountains without growing them myself. Zero.
And why would I need a whole clove of garlic for ANYTHING being a lone male that cooks big meals 5 times a month?
If you can't get by with salt, pepper and parsley then maybe you should stop drinking vodka and smoking marlboros all day?

>>8004925
Oh good the Chinese cleaver shills are here. I was wondering where you were.

>>8004994
> Doesn't like flavor
> Posts on a cooking forum

>>8004848
wait what? There's SMOOTH honing steels now?
BWAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHHAH*cough*AAAAAAAAAHAHHAAAAAAAA IDIOTS

>>8004994
>Comes to knife thread
>Doesn't cook

>>8005010
>overpowering every single meal you eat 3 times a day for 3 months per clove of garlic
>flavortown

Maybe you missed the part where I am a lone male.

>>8004994
>2016
>using parsley for anything other than ironic garnishing

nigga. It's not the 80's anymore.

>>8004994
>Appalachian mountains

I thought you guys had all kinds of wild edible plants and herbs in your area?

I watched a TV program with Sean Brock a while back. He grew up there, and was constantly talking about how his mother would collect various wild herbs & plants to cook with. Several were shown on the program. (Mind of a Chef).

>>8005023
> Doesn't know the difference between a clove of garlic and a bulb of garlic
> Posts on a cooking forum

>>8005023
>Maybe you missed the part where I am a lone male.

Why would that matter? I'm a lone male. Doesn't stop me from using fresh garlic, herbs, etc. Why not take pride in the food you make for yourself? Why not make yourself better, tastier food than basic shit?

>>8005023
>I am a lone male.
Trust me, anon. No-one has mistaken you for anything else. Now leave this nice knife thread to the neurotypical adults would you? You get five good-boy points if you do.

>>8004871

You are scraping it across the acute edge (ridge) of a substantially harder material. It always was essentially a file, especially with the classical super-soft knives.

As for sharpening rods being for hipsters, it's easier to maintain an angle on a rod held vertically than freehanding on a stone.

>>8005030
Only a couple things here. Everything is harvested for money in rural wv by the suboxin/subutex abusers. You're not even likely to find mint leaves.

>>8005044
Not to mention how much faster it is for a quick touch up than breaking out a stone.

>>8005054
bitch if you don't throw some seed out in the yard...

>>8005010
Posters: 39

>>8005041
Posters: 39

So this leads me to believe that
>>8004966
>>8004974
>>8005010
>>8005019
>>8005025
>>8005041
Samefag.
Why the fuck didn't you go to school today anon?
Global rule 3.

>>8005067

>>8005010
Only one that was me. The rest might be samefag though.

>>8004959

I am fairly confident that an apex that has rolled enough to be significantly realigned by a honing rod has exceeded the fatigue threshold. Also, I'm aware that most honing rods abrade to some degree, I just think that it isn't worth the burnishing and plastic deformation, both of which weaken the apex, when there are much better alternatives available.

A leather bench strop pasted with a coarse particulate abrasive would do a far better job at touching up an apex by abrasion while minimizing burnishing and plastic deformation.

For that matter, so would regular touchups on a high grit waterstone.

The later two would also be the only practical options for higher hardness blades anyway.

>>8005067
nice try.

>>8005076
for the record, im gettin day drunk because I work for myself and fridays can go fuck themselves.

>>8005067
You're wrong on this too, no-herbs-or-spices-cooks-with-serrated-granny-blade-kun. Nice trainwreck you have going here. I understand why you have to live far out in the sticks, away from people.

>>8005067
Almost

>>8005067
>>8005076
>>8005081
>>8005083
>>8005092

>he thinks everyone who disagrees with him is a samefag

>>8005075
>For that matter, so would regular touchups on a high grit waterstone.
Which is a hard surface. You drag the edge over it. Which does the exact same thing as drawing it against a fine ceramic rod. But keep believing your nonsense if you wish.

>>8005067
all me

>>7999810
Victorinox/Forschner is a great knife for the money. I love mine especially for veggies.
>>7999906 That is a good one.

For complete general purpose I think the 8" is more versatile.

>>8000604
yeah the 5 dollar kiwi chef knife is a real deal. not a fan of the wooden handle but it stays sharp, sharpens up well and it was only 5 bucks

>>8005067
>no knowing what samefagging is

>>8005112
See now this shop is awful because you're so retarded you can't even line up the (You)s and the font for the trump post isn't consistent with the rest of the post.

>>8005143
>can't even line up the (You)s
prove it

>>8005143
The point is that global rule 3 is in effect and this guy needs a good week to cool off.

>>8005181
>i reported it!

wow i'd hate to be a janny on this board with so many uptight people reporting things they don't like.

>>8005181
>this guy
Which guy? The one you're replying to or the one that guy is refering to?

I just want to point out. This guy did all of this:

>>8004901
>>8004940
>>8004994
>>8005023
>>8005054

To literally defend this:
>>8000645

I think this thread has been bamboozled.

>>8005097

Firstly, the contact area between a curved honing rod and the apex is tiny, and since pressure is force times area, this means even a few grams of force produces massive pressure at the apex. Compare this to the much larger contact area of a waterstone and it will be obvious that the pressure is exponentially lower.

Secondly, even a high grit waterstone is much MUCH more abrasive than a honing rod, and thus operates much more by abrasion than burnishing and plastic deformation compared to a honing rod.

>>7999810
Just get like 10 dollar store chefs knives and when one gets dull switch over to another one. Then get them bulk sharpened for cheap.

>>8005571
> when one gets dull
You mean immediately after unpacking?

I have a few old Forgecraft knives I'm getting sharpened this weekend. How do they compare to German or Japanese blades?

I've got this knife
https://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-DP-Gyutou-8-2-21cm/dp/B000UAPQGS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471566002&sr=8-1&keywords=tojiro+dp
and was wondering how I decide what kind of steel I should purchase for it?

>>7999810
do not invest in a good quality knife unless you're willing to learn how to properly maintain it. poor sharpening technique can ruin it fast. yes a good knife holds an edge for a long time but they don't always come with a good edge on them and they do eventually need sharpening

>>8005571
There is such a thing as too cheap. Even if those also will cut.

At least do get an Ikea 365+ knife (or a model from the line with riveted handles), someone at least thought a moment about their design.

>>8005673
> I'm getting sharpened this weekend
Not gonna DIY with some stones?

> How do they compare to German or Japanese blades?
Depends on how old they are, but probably not gonna beat a decent German or Japanese (or even Swiss) knife.

Steels got a bit better again in the last three decades or so, and so did manufacturing techniques and ultimately plastics (honestly, a superior material for a handle, as ugly as some claim it looks).

>>8007178
Pic related is my Forgecrafts (bottom three) and a Foster Bros.

I'm planning to learn sharpening on some of my bucket knives and sharpen them myself next time they need it.

As for the nicer newer knives, I can see myself getting a higher end one or even a custom, but not as my introduction to carbon steel in the kitchen. Find out what I like first. And make any mistakes on something cheap and all that. I'm competent enough with my kamisori, but still, totally different use case.

Still wouldn't get a plastic handle if god himself came down to vouch for them though. I'm a sucker for wood.

Huh?!

>>7999812
Huh?

Can you guys recommend me some cheap chinese cleaver that i can order from amazon.uk?

>>8007391
> Pic related is my Forgecrafts (bottom three) and a Foster Bros.
Looking nice for older knifes.

But I am pretty sure newer knifes would have a bunch of advantages, yes. You could diversify the sizes a bit, get better handles somewhat better steel (since that looks like decent forged steel, it won't necessarily be worlds apart, but there can be a noticeable difference anyhow).

> I'm planning to learn sharpening on some of my bucket knives and sharpen them myself next time they need it.
Sure. If you end up sharpening your knifes more often, I'll recommend paying up for like 2+ good whetstones or diamond plates.

I've got a bunch of methods, but I most often use just two or three since I upgrade to some great Japanese models on the medium / finer grit whetstones that just do extremely well.

> Still wouldn't get a plastic handle if god himself came down to vouch for them though. I'm a sucker for wood.
You won't have any trouble finding these.

>>8007420

They don't have a huge selection. I'd get a Zwilling twin point Chinese Chef's knife, decent price and hard to go wrong with it.

Here's the reviews for a Twin Signature (almost certainly same blade, just different handle).

https://www.amazon.com/Zwilling-J-Henckels-Signature-Vegetable/product-reviews/B0000TPBVY

"Great knife for opening young thai coconuts"

That right there is the difference between German steel and low cost VG10 Japanese knives.

>>8007762

PS. of course there's plenty of Japanese knives with sturdier edges, just saying that HRC isn't the be all and end all.

>>8007762
>>8007773


Since a harder heat treatment and thinner blade geometry geometry make a knife better at ~90% of kitchen tasks, it is more sensible to buy a dirt cheap cleaver type knife for those 10% of tasks and optimize your chef's knife choice for the other 90%.

>>8007778

It's still a 15/15 edge and they are generally just as thin behind the edge as Globals/Tojiros (which are also made for plebs after all). When they're sharp there is not much difference, they just blunt slightly faster.

>>8004543
50.000 Reichsmark wurden auf Ihr Konto

>>8007815

I would be pretty surprised if Zwillings were as thin behind the edge as a Tojiro DP.

There is also the minor issue of hardness being a significant influence on strength and therefore how thin an apex the knife can actually hold without microscopically rolling too easily in use.

>>8007869

> I would be pretty surprised if Zwillings were as thin behind the edge as a Tojiro DP.

My Zwilling Chef's knife is 0.3mm at 1mm behind the edge, pretty much the same as a Tojiro DP or Shun. The difference is final spine thickness, the Tojiro flattens off much faster and thus has a thinner spine.

> There is also the minor issue of hardness being a significant influence on strength and therefore how thin an apex the knife can actually hold without microscopically rolling too easily in use.

On the other hand, faults propagate less with the softer steel, you don't suddenly miss a chunk.

>>8004546
Which is why for a beginner, it's better to get an under-hardened German knife, hone it frequently, and send it off to get professionally sharpened every once in a while

>>8008086
Lol why though
You could get a chefs choice or some other easy mode sharpener
People who advocate for taking or sending their knives to be sharpened need to be kicked in the teeth
>having a dull knife 70% of the time and no knife at all 15% of the time is better than using a sharpener that isn't 100% neckbeard approved
Spoiler: your pro sharpener buddy is using a dry power grinder

>>8008086

Go take a coat hanger wire and bend it back and forth until it snaps. That fatigues metal behind the break in the wire? That's what the honing rod is bending back into a straight line and you are using to cut with.

Unsurprisingly, it tends to subsequently microscopically roll again almost immediately upon contacting a cutting board.

>>8007988

Can you measure how thick it is 1/4" back from the apex? I'm genuinely curious now.

>Faults propagate less

Agreed, but again, I'd rather invest the money in the knife optimized for the 90% of the time with no risk of damage and use a cheap beater for the other 10%.

>>8008199

> Can you measure how thick it is 1/4" back from the apex? I'm genuinely curious now.

~0.9mm

korin
fujiwara
takeda

>>7999810
The basic Victorinox is okay if you are a poorfag
Mac MBK-85 if you want actually quality entry level chef's knife

>>8009691
What's with the hipster hardon for Mac knives anyway? I've got a UK-80 that I bought as a sacrifice to keep my roommates away from some retards I lived with at the time, and I can successfully confirm it's a piece of shit

Is it just because Keller shills for them?

>>8004530
fucking great knife

>>7999810
these pieces of metal with handles cut stuff pretty well
>Tramontina Cook's Knife Set ProLine High Carbon Steel 8" & 10" Knife: Total 2 Knives Included

https://www.amazon.com/Tramontina-Cooks-Knife-ProLine-Carbon/dp/B00UG3M1EE/ref=pd_sim_79_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=XFY8E01C1GF29CC8DSKF

>>8009824
They have like ten lines of knives and indeed most that I've actually seen didn't really make me happy. [Haven't seen the higher-end ones yet.]

That said, the Victorinox' are pretty much all actually great knives. I'd frankly rate them above Mac at this point., despite muh European edge and cheaper price...

>>8010142

For all the ragging on German steels, the standard AUS-8 in MBK-85 is just as ancient.

SA-80 at least has muh cryo and that classic fuck ugly Mac profile. Seems a better knife than MBK-85 to me.

>>8010162
>SA-80 at least has muh cryo and that classic fuck ugly Mac profile. Seems a better knife than MBK-85 to me.
Could be. Then again, if you want a bit more diversity, why not get a JCK...

And I personally will still go with Victorinox Fibrox being better than MAC for the general sweeping statement, regardless if there are a few MAC that might be better.

>>7999830
suh ba tee ayylmaos are fine if you can get hold of an antique thiers-issard

just get a tojiro dp

IMO just get Victorinox and keep that shit sharp. If you don't think you'll ever have the time to use a Whetstone just use the mom tier Knife Sharpeners they sell for dirt cheap, they do good enough of a job.

For the record I have a friend who works at a Michelin Star Restaurant and he owns the fancy shit they sell at Sur La Table.

Yes his knives are FANTASTIC. They cut through anything basically with no resistance whatsoever. But unless you're busting your ass as a line cook and need perfectly diced vegetables don't waste your money. Just sharpen your knife every few months (depends on how often you cook) and you'll be golden.

>>8009824
cause mbk-85 is pretty much the best bang for your buck for entry level decent chefs knife
Really would look into other brands if you are going to spend more though

>>8011264
> cause mbk-85 is pretty much the best bang for your buck for entry level decent chefs knife
At like $160...? No, that's not really good bang for your buck.

You can have 2 better JCK or 3-4 Victorinox Fibrox for that.

>>7999810

Others have mentioned this knife, and I will vouch for it, too:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008M5U1C2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3GI8UXR1GQ3NJ&coliid=IZPZ4OHF9UCJC&psc=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=ddrtrailogfro-20&linkId=3cf4cf375c95cf8df483cd64f602f3a6

I checked my Amazon order history and I've purchased over twenty of them as gifts over the last three years for folks on my third-tier Xmas list (small clients, distant relatives) as well as people who just never had a decent goddamn knife when I tried to cook in their homes (mom, mom-in-law-to-be), etc. Everyone loves them.

>>8011282
>No, that's not really good bang for your buck.
But it is. Decent chef's knives start at around 200 hundred dollars and upwards. Like I said in my original post, the Victorinox is great poorfag choice, currently using one myself as well. But it's still fucking trash in every regard pretty much when compared to 'actual' chef's knives.
In a way the mbk-85 and 8' Vibrox Victorinox are both 'base level' knives that are the best bang for your buck in their own categories.
Victorinox is great and at 30-40 dollar price new it's the perfect babbys first chef's knife and I cannot recommend it enough.
But if you want to spend more and want good quality mbk-85 is pretty much your next choice.
Of course at that price point you can try different weight knifes, different shapes of handles etc. but mbk-85 is still the best I've handled as far as knives in that price point go.
Lot of people seem to like Global but I don't like them.

>>8011282
Which JCK? Someone keeps meming them in this thread. Are the higher end ones like the Deep Impact any good? I have upgrade-itis and I've been using a DP for the last 10 years.

>>8011301

Please specifically enumerate how the Fibrox is trash and what you would get more for your money in European style chef's knives at a higher price point.

In reality, if you want a European style knife (I.e. stainless and hardened around ~55 HRC) then there is no point in spending any more.

As to MAC knives, what does a MAC do that a Tojiro DP doesnt do for considerably cheaper?

>>8011301
> But if you want to spend more and want good quality mbk-85 is pretty much your next choice.
I wonder. I mean, even the Japanese Amazon buyers will pick a Kai, Verdun, Tojiro, Misono or such.

Maybe they're also below your "good quality" with that, but these knifes then aren't actually very different by design.

> But it's still fucking trash in every regard pretty much when compared to 'actual' chef's knives.
I don't really think so myself. I get that it's clearly not the nicest feeling / looking knife.

But it's light, balanced and sturdy. These damn knifes see more use than you think, even when you put up much more expensive knifes next to them. At least that's how it is for me.

> Lot of people seem to like Global but I don't like them.
Agreed on that at least. Also not my taste in knife

>>8011314
> Which JCK?
JCK Basic or Misono Molybdenum. There might be more. But that's just if you want (well, almost) two 180 - 210mm Chef's knifes.

If you are just looking at what single knife you can get for ~$160, there are a lot more choices. Including various made from steels that are harder to forge and thus usually more expensive than Molybdenum steel.

> Are the higher end ones like the Deep Impact any good?
Don't have any of them yet.

But I did buy JCK FH Hattori for myself and a cousin. Boringly normal VG-10 steel, but certainly very nicely made in terms of balance, handle and finish. No regrets there.

>>8003307
I'm getting an electric pull through sharpener

I don't have the autism required for grinding on a whetstone

>>8012218
>I don't have the autism required for grinding on a whetstone
You mean you're a fat, lazy, ignorant shit?

>>8012251
No I meant I don't have the time nor the patience to repeatedly scrape a knife against a stone at a perfect 15° angle when the electric sharpener is just as effective

I do all of my cooking with a combination of a Victorinox Fibrox 10 inch Chef, a matching 4 inch paring knife. A bigass Kiwi Cleaver, and some dollar store bread knife.

The chef's knife is the work horse. The cleaver is for when I chop through bone for bone in stews, or for when I just don't want to risk nicking the blade on the chef's knife when dealing with certain items. The pairing knife is mostly used by the wife when I need some sous work done.

I really don't feel that you need the cleaver, but it comes in handy. The other 3 knives should accomplish everything you need. You'll also get away with your whole set for about 45 bucks, and it's very serviceable. Don't worry abut high end knives unless you make a career out of this shit.

>>7999810

Chefs knife $44
https://www.amazon( dot... )com/Victorinox-Fibrox-Straight-Chefs-8-Inch/dp/B008M5U1C2

Serrated and bread knife $22
http://amzn( dot.. )to/2aOa4LN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWewefvCZXM

Both of them work very well and have the best price to performance ratio you will find.

>>8012576
Shit the price on the fibrox has gone up. When I got mine, it was 30.

Watch for a sale. I'm sure they'll be offering discounts on kitchen gear soon with Thanksgiving coming up.

>>8011301
>Decent chef's knives start at around 200 hundred dollars and upwards

Nigger, please.

Poor collegefag here, what one knife do you guys recommend?

>>8013741
>>>7999810 (OP)
>Others have mentioned this knife, and I will vouch for it, too:
>https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008M5U1C2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3GI8UXR1GQ3NJ&coliid=IZPZ4OHF9UCJC&psc=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=ddrtrailogfro-20&linkId=3cf4cf375c95cf8df483cd64f602f3a6
>I checked my Amazon order history and I've purchased over twenty of them as gifts over the last three years for folks on my third-tier Xmas list (small clients, distant relatives) as well as people who just never had a decent goddamn knife when I tried to cook in their homes (mom, mom-in-law-to-be), etc. Everyone loves them.

>>8013741
+1 for Victorinox Fibrox.

Also get one or two of their small pairing knifes (doesn't matter terribly much if it's the Fibrox or older handle).

>>8008460
been thinking about copping a Takeda, maybe a honesuki or decent sized petty, what's your opinion on em'?

Seeing the reaction on your knives, just how high maintinance are they in terms of carbon steels?

I've got a few AS knives and im just wondering if a simple swipe with a dry cloth is enough for maintinance. How long COULD you leave the steel exposed to water? Say you were doing a large batch of something really moist, would you find yourself having to dry every now and then?

https://www.amazon.com/Calphalon-Contemporary-7-Inch-Santoku-Knife/dp/B0001O3480

I have been using mine for over ten years. I spent less than 20$ on mine.

>>8007391
I have the butcher knife that matches that set. love it

>>8011403
>Please specifically enumerate how the Fibrox is trash

Let me be clear here. I don't think the Victorinox is trash. But I do think it's overhyped. Other foodservice brands like Dexter Russel, Bakers and Chefs, etc. are the exact same thing but only half the price. The Victorinox used to be the same price as those, but no longer.

>> and what you would get more for your money in European style chef's knives at a higher price point.

1) A better handle. The Victornox isn't bad, but I find that it tends to encourage the "fist grip" rather than the proper grip.

2) Better steel. In other words, it needs less frequent honing and and sharpening. When sharpening is required, it will be easier to do.

>>8012618
I guarantee they could charge $75 for that knife and retards would still buy it because muh anal retentive chef endorsed it

>>8015113

Arcos and Icel for European supply store knives.

An Arcos 10" Chef's knife is 12$ on Amazon.

>>8015113
>1) A better handle. The Victornox isn't bad, but I find that it tends to encourage the "fist grip" rather than the proper grip.

Never was an issue for me, but it migjt be for some people.

>2) Better steel. In other words, it needs less frequent honing and and sharpening. When sharpening is required, it will be easier to do.

At the mid 50s HRC European style knives are heat treated to, you arent going to see much, if any, difference between different steel types, since the primary wear mode is from microscopic apex deformation from cutting board contacts. As long as you avoid any steel with too many (non iron) carbides, you should be fine.

Plus, Victorinox can at least be relied upon to not butcher the heat treatment.

>>8015415

How am I going to avoid a steel without too many non iron carbides? Stainless is heavily alloyed by it's very definition. So preventing large carbides is relevant regardless of final hardness.

Which is where muh cryo comes in.

>>7999810
I cook restaurant-tier (non chain) food every night for 5 years. I've been using same $20 knife from Wal-Mart whole time.

Sharpen twice a week and works great. ....I don't understand the expensive knife maymay

I work in a high end kitchen, I use a victorinox 10 inch forged chef's knife it was 80 bucks and I don't have to worry about anyone stealing my 300 Damascus gyoto.

>>8015507

I meant avoiding the kinds of steels often used in utility and folding knives and touted for their wear resistance, such as s30v, D2, etc.

Any cutlery grade stainless steel without an excessive volume of carbides should perform similarly at a ~55 HRC.

You need to get into the 60+ range for the best quality cutlery steels and heat treatments to really start showing their worth, but then you arent talking about European style kitchen knives anymore.

>>8015597

Zwilling, Eka etc. make their knives substantially harder than 55 HRC to begin with. They have been doing that for a long time.

Felix Solingen does some VG10 knives and 12c27 at HRC60 in Germany.

Florentine Kitchen Knives does small runs of Sandvik steel knives at HRC60 in Europe.

It has been muh cryo, new alloys like VG10 and powder steels which allow stainless steel knives to move up the hardness scale without becoming uselessly brittle and/or large chunks of vanadium carbides ripping out.

There's just a little more inertia in Europe than in Japan. I think customers play a large part in that too. Bokers did diamond in Titanium knives first but it went nowhere. Now the Japanese are doing it and their customers seem to like it more.

I really like the look of the Kikuichi white carbon knives. Great looking out not flashy or fake damascus or other silly shit.

>>8015525
Could someone Redpill me on why I'm wrong in this post

>>8015948
I don't think you are wrong at all.

1) IMHO sharpening twice a week is nuts. I wouldn't be satisfied with that.

2) Like anything else, some people get into it as a hobby. Some people are into fancy knives. Some people are into fancy clothes. Some people are into the lastest-and-greatest vidya game.

>>7999810
>post Jack
Evidently not.
:^)

>>8015948
You're not wrong, but it appears every elitist 14 year old who has finished their homework has congregated into one massive shitpost-fest where they talk about shit they know nothing about and attempt to get the upper hand on people they don't know and can't identify in order to glorify their anonymous internet personas.
Short version: This thread is shit and needs to die.

>>8015948
Overall I think you observed right.

But it's not like you couldn't possibly like a knife better. Maybe it's lighter, maybe it sharpens at a different frequency, maybe its balance or grip are different.... apart from just ending up sharper when sharpened.

A few weeks ago i got this Victorinox, think it's 10 inches. My biggest knife I've had so it nicked me when I was using the steel.
Fucking hell of a good knife though man, lovely wooden handle and it fits my piano fingers well, chef ordered me this off the internet (Nisbets iirc) for £30. Had it for a couple of weeks now and it's pretty strong, I've used it to do literally everything with for 60 hours a week and it's still as good as it was

>>8015992
Yeah everyone who doesn't agree with everything you said here, and everything you haven't yet said but would expect us to deduce from your posts, is clearly 14 and needs to die. We should be grateful for your wisdom, anon-kun

>>8015160
collegefag again, is this what you're talking about? Can anyone else vouch for arco, because the price is really tempting.

>>8015525
Sharpening your knife twice a week; for 5 years?
You wouldn't have a knife left. Never mind a "WalMart" knife with considerately /shit/ steel.

Get over yourself

>>8004998
Not that anon, but I am a huge chinese knife shill. They work, they are cheap and are practical. I think Shun and many other brands are highly over priced though.

I have bought several for my friends and their $200-300 german knives sit in a drawer. I am not saying they are the best, and it is mostly to me working in asian kitchens for my preference, but they work. And a decent quality made in the USA chinese knife can be had for like $30.

>>8017965
>my cheap thing is a better value than cherry-picked examples of well known overpriced knives
This mostly just reveals your ignorance of what's out there though

>>7999810
>>8000604

I was a professional cook from 1991 to 1998 and still use my Victorinox Fibrox 8" chef knife as my go-to. I have Japanese handforged damascus tsuchime knives that look pretty but stay in the block 90% of the time.

OP fuck all the meme knives. If you want cheap and cheerful, go an 8-10" Mundial, but you'll have to whet it on the reg, plus frequent steeling.

If you want best performance at price, get a vicky fibrox- easy to keep clean and sharp.

Pic unrelated, knife pic was a duplicate

>>8004943
>softer steel of the German style knife

Confirmed for never having whetted a Wusthof or F. Dick.

>>8005075
>honing rod

It's called a fucking steel you fucking ubercunt. Do Americans insist on making up new fucking nouns and mis-spelling words just because it's easier than actually learning anything?

Go eat some bleu cheese and french fries while driving 150 roods to the hogshead you fucking spastic.

>sperglords still raging about honing vs sharpening
>2016
Knife threads are the gift that never stops giving

>>8018195
They're almost as entertaining as tipping threads.

Fightclub.... you dun talk abt it, now you spoiled my entertainment!

The kids stopped fighting cuz u laugh out loud! :P
;)

>>8018190
Are you honestly this upset about simple words?

>>8018190
And don't forget to:
SHART
IN
THE
MART

>>8018177
> I have Japanese handforged damascus tsuchime knives that look pretty but stay in the block 90% of the time.
Why is that so in your case?

>>8018395
He's saving them for the moment he enacts revenge to the one who dishonored his clan.

But remember, if you seek revenge - dig two graves.

>>8018395
Because he probably bought them based on looks from the internet, and not based upon the things that really matter like blade geometry, handle shape, blade length, etc. Also a lot of the tsuchime + damascus knives out there aren't as good as a knife with just damascus or tsuchime of the same price. Just bells and whistles, really.

>>8011264
almost 200 bucks for a knife... why not just buy a minimal set of equipment and learn to make knives?

>>8018464
Because specialization of labor isn't a liberal conspiracy to make you gay

Just buy a knife, sperg burger. This isn't a video game where knife making is a valuable life skill

MGTOW DIY cultists need to grow up

>>8018464
I've tried to make a knife before.

You can easily make a blade that cuts from modern steel with some tools.

But making a nice, balanced knife with a good grip never mind a forged knife is a LOT harder.

>>8018464
Do you realize how time consuming and difficult it is to make a knife good enough for the kitchen? Kitchen knives are different than the outdoors-ish knives that a lot of modern bladesmiths stroke their dicks over, and only recently has it been a trend for master bladesmiths outside of japan to focus on making good kitchen knives.

>>8018483

Different in the sense that people actually fucking use and sharpen good kitchen knives, unlike the avalanche of pocket jewellry and safe Queen faggotry rampant in the utility and folding knife world.

>>8018507

While I agree that your overall point is 100% true, there's plenty of "jewelry" in the Kitchen knife world too, especial from Western makers.

>>8018526

Sure, but how many people safe Queen even high end kitchen knives?

It also makes me laugh that the people who use and sharpen their knives the most also avoid all those idiotic "super steels" that take 10x longer to sharpen for 2x the edge retention.

Meanwhile the pocket jewelry buying factory edge lords in thr pocket knife world clamour for a blade made entirely out of vanadium and which would require a super villains death laser to sharpen, despite not using their knives for anything more than opening mail and posting on the internet.

>>8018557
>Sure, but how many people safe Queen even high end kitchen knives?

I have no idea. But it does seem very common in the West, anyway. I deal in antique knives (mainly Victorian-era stuff from Sheffield) so I go to knife shows and read the trade magazines. They are flooded with kitchen knives that are obviously made for looks with no concern as to practicality at all. But that seems to be mainly a western thing.

When I talk to Japanese knife makers about a custom kitchen knife they ask me things like my height, the height of my cutting board above the floor, and what kinds of foods I need to cut.

When I talk to the Western guys they wax poetic about the latest damascus pattern they have or how they found some really cool walrus tusk for the handle....and when you look at their work and handle it, it becomes apparent they've never had to dice a single onion in a kitchen.

The crazy vanadium blade & death laser sharpening is just as prevalent in the kitchen knife world as it is in the world of custom folders. In the Western world anyway; I've never been to a knife show in Asia.

>>8018577

Huh, I guess I just don't tend to come across those types of Western makers very much.

The Western small makers I'm familiar with that do kitchen knives actually tend to do very functional pieces, but then again, the only small makers I keep an eye on are those types.

And, sure, while there are Western custom makers out there making kitchen knives out of high carbide steels, the majority of Western kitchen knife enthusiasts tend to buy Japanese kitchen knives anyway, and there relatively pure carbon steels tend to dominate.

Again, the Western small makers I know tend to use 1095, 52100 or AEB-L for their kitchen knives (actually, for all their knives, but I digress).

>>8018598
>I just don't tend to come across those types of Western makers very much.

Entirely possible. I don't seek out any custom makers, I just happen across them at shows that I attend for business reasons unrelated to kitchen knives. It may well be that the "show crowd" is totally unrelated to the body of custom makers as a whole.

>>8018483
>only recently has it been a trend for master bladesmiths outside of japan
weeabos aren't the only ones who've been making good knives for years
Wustof and Henkel have been in business for over 100 years.
Forschner has been making good knives that aren't fuckall expensive for years.

>>8018634
>have been in business for over 100 years.

That doesn't say much about their relative quality.

The big western knife makers have all had periods of success and decline. Toledo in Spain. Solingen in Germany. Sheffield in England. Thiers in France. There are famous makers from all of those regions who were in business for hundreds of years....and now are either defunct, or exist in "name only" because some big multinational conglomerate bought their name after the original company went bankrupt.

Those places were successful for their time, but these days are either dead or dying.

Joseph Rodgers of Sheffield, for example, was once the world's premier knifemaker. They held royal warrants. They declined after WWII and nowadays they are owned by the "Egginton Group" who sells crap under the old brand name they snatched up. (along with other famous Sheffield makers like G. Wostenholm and Ibberson). The company might still be around but it's basically dead/dying, and what they make now is by no means indicative of their heyday.

Japan is quite a bit different. They're still blowing and going like they always have.

The old-school German makers like Henckel are still in business, but they are changing in a massive way. Henckel, for example, is now a multinational conglomerate (Zwilling Group). And guess what? They are now selling Japanese knives (Miyabi).

>>8018634
Yeah, I realize that. For fuck's sake, Sweden makes some of the best steels for kitchen knives. I'm talking about custom work and low product yield bladesmithing, m8. Forschner, Wustoff, Henckel, and Sabatier are factory brands, my dude. Western knifemakers haven't been focusing on kitchen knives until the last 20 years, and Kramer is the biggest breakout in Western-styled custom kitchen knifemaking to hit the mainstream.

Jap knifemakers have almost exclusively been doing kitchen stuff since the old swordsmithing families and businesses had to stop making swords; kitchen knives were the next logical step for them.

I can see more and more Western (American) knife makers getting into kitchen knives in the coming decades, especially since America is gaining interest in proper cookery, and boy do we love our shiny fancy tools.

>>8018526
> especial from Western makers
Nippon probably adds more expenses by decoration than the vast majority of the west, today.

>>8018577
All right, the western antiques are often abysmal. As are many non-kitchen knifes.

At least the Japanese today don't usually make their knifes useless as they decorate them.

But modern kitchen knifes are usually spartan and utilitarian in the west, more so than the Japanese ones on average...?

>>8018670
>Nippon probably adds more expenses by decoration than the vast majority of the west, today.

I've had the opposite experience, as I explained in >>8018577.

I own a couple custom Japanese knives. It's easy to spend several hundred $$ or even over a thousand on a Japanese knife that has no "bling" at all. No Damascus, no carving, no inlay, and just a basic traditional handle. OTOH at half that price point with a Western knife you're getting a fancy pattern blade, a handle made of fossilized mammoth bone with multi-colored rivets and spacers under the scales.

>>But modern kitchen knifes are usually spartan and utilitarian in the west,

If we're talking about the average knife, sure. But I was talking about custom knives specifically, not just "off the shelf".

In my experience, "custom knife" in the West usually means "bling central", whereas that's not always the case in Japan. Of course the Japanese do offer fancy carving, pattern steel, and so on, but that's an exception rather than the rule it is for Western custom knives.

>>8018660
>Henckel, for example, is now a multinational conglomerate (Zwilling Group). And guess what? They are now selling Japanese knives (Miyabi).

Not only that, but knives are becoming a much smaller portion of their business. Zwilling group (which still uses the famous "twins" logo) consists of Henckels (German knives), Staub (French cookware), Demeyre (Belgian cookware), and Miyabi (Japanese design knives).

Half their business is now cookware, and only a quarter of it is the original German.

>>8018685
> But I was talking about custom knives specifically, not just "off the shelf".
I see. Okay, that's "bling central" I guess.

What else would they sell? Westerners are actually just going to individual artisans for personalization and bling.

If you are a richfag westerner that wants "the best", you probably don't ask for the steel folded over 9000 times by that famous 20th generation direct male descendant of Masmune and his blade making skills that take 10m yen and ten days of begging to get.

You'll get engineers, companies and their machines to design this shit instead. And as many machines as possible so that you can iterate the design and do improvements quickly and objectively.

>>8018769
>What else would they sell? Westerners are actually just going to individual artisans for personalization and bling.

Like anything else, some people care about the bling and others care about the performance. Both markets exist.

>>If you are a richfag westerner that wants "the best"

Again, I think both types exist. Like I posted above, I have a couple custom-made Japanese knives. I don't give a shit what they look like because nobody will see them other than myself and a couple of my fellow cooks. OTOH, I do care very much about the choice of steel, the weight and balance, etc. Those are personalized factors, not something than you can make on a mass production line where everything is the same.

I'm sure other people want fancy flashy stuff to show off. There's both kinds.

Consider cars: You see rappers showing off their custom-painted Bugattis while waving around fistfuls of cash and literal bling jewlery. They want them for the image. The prestige. I doubt any of them know how to drive to even 1% of the car's capability.

Then you get people like one of my business partners--the guy is worth over $10 million from the oil industry. He owns a rather inconspicuous looking, though very rare and special, Acura which he takes all over the country and races himself. He even works on the engine himself despite being in his 60's. For any market there are both types of customers--those who care about appearance, and those who care about performance.

>>8018660

> Japan is quite a bit different. They're still blowing and going like they always have.

Many of their most popular blade shapes are relatively recent, so not quite like always.

They have a captured market due to their lack of immigration, cohesive society and strong work ethic. If Germany was still pure Germany they'd still rule the world in quality.

>>8019186
>Many of their most popular blade shapes are relatively recent

Yeah, agreed. I didn't mean that their product has never changed with the times. I meant that the Japanese knifemaking industry has yet to experience the decline in quality and reputation that the major Western makers have had.

>>7999810
>having sharp knives

enjoy your hospital trips

>>8019218
Half-sharp and not sharp knifes are *way* more dangerous for adults with normal motor control.

Only if you're forced to use force and make extra movements you're kinda likely to loose control and cut yourself somehow. You know, you try to cut, say, a potato, knife is ultra dull so you press down hard, potato rolls sideways and blade slips right on your poorly positioned fingers... that kinda stuff. Maybe not with a potato, but it's not really relevant.

If it cuts predictably, you'll pretty much predictably not cut yourself.

>>8019232
> adults with normal motor control.
You know, you can have perfect motor control 999 times out of 1000 and still go to the hospital.

>>8019287

Sure you can. But fact is that most knife accidents aren't caused by lack of perfect motor control. They're caused by a dull knife slipping off the food and thereby ending up in a place that you didn't intend for it to go.

>>8019232
>You know, you try to cut, say, a potato, knife is ultra dull so you press down hard, potato rolls sideways and blade slips right on your poorly positioned fingers...
and you go "thank god none of my knives are sharp" and nothing happens

this happens to me at least a couple times a year

>>8019291
a dull knife won't cut you, not even a little

>>8019287
Yep, by inattentiveness or not watching where you cut or being too tired / drunk or something.

But it's not the typical case. And you could stab yourself with a dull knife or a glass shard or whatever as well, you're not 100% safe.

An evenly sharp knife that does not require much force to cut just makes working safer, but obviously not entirely safe.

>>8019294
If that works for you somehow...?

But usually you have just exerted enough force to achieve the cutting of some food you needed to cut, so it has a decent chance of cutting you.

I had a lot less cutting accidents since I started sharpening knifes when they get dull.

>>8019298

What's your point? A dull knife is useless for anything, so why would I even have one in my hand, unless I was sharpening it?

>>8019294
>this happens to me at least a couple times a year

So why do you keep tempting fate? Isn't this like driving drunk and then saying "thank god the cops didn't catch me"; this happens at least a couple of times a year.

>>8019321
>So why do you keep tempting fate?cause the

I disagree that it only happens because the knife is dull

btw, a dull knife still cuts the usual things fairly easily but it won't easily cut into your skin

>>8019336
>I disagree that it only happens because the knife is dull

There are two possible causes for cutting yourself with a knife:
1) a straight-up accident, inattention, or impairment (drunk, etc.). That can happen with any knife.
2) slipping. That only happens with dull knives.

>btw, a dull knife still cuts the usual things fairly easily but it won't easily cut into your skin

1)"fairly easily" isn't good enough
2) and it's dangerous because you have to press harder on the knife. Pressing harder means there is more to go wrong when the dull knife slips.

A sharp knife won't cut into your skin because it won't slip off the food.

>>8019342
>1) a straight-up accident, inattention, or impairment (drunk, etc.). That can happen with any knife.
a light touch with a sharp knife is enough to cut you with a sharp knife

with a dull knife it takes work.

> 1)"fairly easily" isn't good enough

says TV marketing that brainwashed you

> 2) and it's dangerous because you have to press harder on the knife.

I accepting that it adds to the accident potential but the accidents much less severe

>>7999810
Victorinox is a good starter brand, I'd personally avoid anything with a closed bolster like the one in your image, I find they get in the way of sharpening and have had issues with them making full contact with a cutting board. I really like Shun, if you don't mind spending a pretty penny. If you want to maintain your knife, get a decent honing steel, and if you can't be bothered with stones for sharpening (they're a bit of a pain in the ass, IMHO) something like the Lansky sharpening system works great, be sure to get a mount with it, either the metal stand or the C-clamp. Be sure to cut on a cutting board at all time, a wood or plastic one, never glass or counter tops or plates. Those will fuck up the knife sooner than one would like. Wash by hand, not by dishwasher, and store in a block or on a magnetic metal bar, definitely not in a drawer cause that will just damage the blade from banging around other things in a drawer. Best of luck, friend.

>>8019350
Don't put your fingers in the path of the knife and you won't cut yourself. That's just physics.

>>8019373
>Shun
>Honing steel

Shun 's are literally notorious for have a brittle heat treatment and are at a very high risk of microscopically chipping at the apex if steeled.

Steeling rods were designed to be used on kitchen knives of significantly lower hardness where the apex tended to roll rather than chip. A steeling rod should never be used on higher hardness/Japanese style kitchen knives.

Also, a Tojiro DP is a much better value for high hardness VG-10 than Shun.

>>8019350
>a light touch with a sharp knife is enough to cut you with a sharp knife

Fine with me, because I don't intend on touching myself with the knife.

>>TV marketing that brainwashed you
Lol, no. Says me. Cooking. Who the fuck wants to spend a minute cutting an onion with a dull-ass knife when can be done in a few seconds with a sharp one? Not to mention that many kitchen tasks are downright miserable with a dull knife: want to fillet a fish? Cut the skin off a piece of pork belly? Finely mince some beef for tartare? That's a huge hassle with a dull knife.

>>I accepting that it adds to the accident potential
Then we're done here. I'd rather have :

No accident with a sharp knife
than
An increased frequency of "less severe" accidents that also happens to make my cooking that much more of a hassle.

>>8019336
If it cuts pig and chicken it will cut human. You're an idiot m80.

>>8019391
Just speaking from experience, they've worked just fine for me for the while that I've owned them.

>>8019218
Having a dull knife smashes and fucks up your product that you're cutting, unless you hack things up into random chunks like a total fucking pleb. Ever try to french an onion for a stir fry, do a fine brunoise for soup, or finely dice a tomato for salsa effectively with a dull knife?

I have tried to do those things with my friends' dull pieces of shit in school, after growing up with my parent's reasonably sharp henckel set, and let me tell you, never again.

Oh and don't say "use a mandoline," because even chefs slice their fingertips off on those.

My great grandmother was an excellent chef in cooking country southern food. She had a dull serrated knife for damn near everything, but she still had a big sharp cleaver for the meat in the smokehouse, and an old french chef knife that she had grandaddy keep sharp for the occasional gratin dish. She was also pretty much blind when I knew her.

>>8019399
>Oh and don't say "use a mandoline," because even chefs slice their fingertips off on those.
Right in the feels, you bastard.

>>8019399
>Oh and don't say "use a mandoline," because even chefs slice their fingertips off on those.
Cut resistant glove for $10

>>8000627
+1 for the Wüsthofs, very good price/performance ratio and this one handles good.

>>8019423
Yeah, I know. Also,
>using the guard
>ever
It's just important to take your time, be patient, and to not try to slice that little bit of potato left. That's your best insurance policy.

But who hasn't either seen or heard about someone fucking up on the mandoline in a kitchen? I mean my dad nicked his knuckle on a v slicer cleaning it after being so careful during its actual use.

>>8019373
> they're a bit of a pain in the ass, IMHO
I find them super easy, but I have some of the more pricey Japanese stones (tested them and some Chinese and other devices - in the set I tested, the better Japanese stones are definitely worth it at this point).

I usually make do with two, Sharpton 1000 grit and Chosera 3000 grit.

The only "complication" is that depending on how evenly you used the stone, you might need to straighten out the stone itself around every 60 sharpened knifes or so... but even that is easy.

>>8019446
I have a set of kinda pricey DMT stones, I can usually get an okay edge with them, but nothing spectacular, could be the stones or just my fucking it up somehow, but for price comparison, ease of use, and quality of the edge I get on my knives, the Lansky wins by a ton for me. Maybe for someone more experienced the stones would be better, but for someone inexperienced just looking to get a nice sharp edge without a learning curve, it wins out for me.

>>8019464
There is no particular learning curve with the stones I mentioned.

Buy them and some holders. Watch short instruction video how you best pull knifes over them (two or three strokes, really), sprinkle water (these two are not the kind you drench for a long time), hold knife at correct angle and sharpen, wash off metal. Done.

No big deal, really.

That said, perhaps the Lansky set is even easier. Haven't tried it. But I'd claim it's not really a problem anyhow.

>>8019539
To each their own, I guess.

That being said, if I end up getting an itch to try freehand again in the future, I'll definitely keep those stones in mind Anon.

>>8019553
> That being said, if I end up getting an itch to try freehand again in the future
Yea, it is actually kinda fun.

> I'll definitely keep those stones in mind Anon.
They are great, but actually cheaper/older models.

Sharpton has a "glass" rather than the cheaper "ha-no-kuromaku" I use. And Naniwa Chosera now have a "Professional" line.

I am not actually looking to upgrade 'cause the current stones are already essentially perfect for me, but maybe if they wear out in some years, I'll switch...

>>8018395
Well, they were gifts, and they're nice to use occasionally. But they're finicky and need the right technique and are a little 'mono tasked'. But the old Vicky Fibrox is good to go for just about anything anytime.

>>8018415
No, they were gifts from a girlfriend, but thanks for being a know-it-all judgemental cunt about it.

>>8019577
I see. Thanks for explaining.

>>8018167
I am not saying a good knife is not worth the money; but the value is only there if you are a professional, have good knife skills and the willingness/skill set to care for a high end piece. The fit and finish on high end kitchen cutlery is awesome much like a high end custom rifle; but it doesn't make you better at what you are doing. I got a $200 hammer I inherited from my roofer/carpenter brother and it in no way makes me able to pound nails better than the old estwing I have.

If you are a professional or hardcore cooking hobbyist, then by all means spend your money how you like. But there really are quality knives that can be had at a fraction of the cost.

I just prefer a chink style knife. They work, easy to sharpen, can find good merican steel ones, are a multi-tasker, and I like the hand feel - makes me think i'm choking up on ladyboy cock.

>>8019446
What is wrong with Arkansas soft granite and using jewelers rouge and a strop? If you know someone in a steel mill you can also get a very nice piece of ceramic for free for finishing an edge.

>>8019849
Not him, but artificial stones are more consistent, generally available in bigger sizes for cheaper, and tend to be more up to the task of dealing with modern super hard steels.

>>8019849
> What is wrong with Arkansas soft granite
Never used it. But it's probably not quite as consistent and almost certainly not as abrasive - should have slower working speed.

That said, the result might be equally workable if you have time. It's not like 1000 grit (what I think that stone is, more or less) is the final step.

> jewelers rouge
IIRC that's like a 6000-10000 grit equivalent on a strop? Might be wrong, but most polishing pastes are in that range and beyond.

Definitely gonna do the 3000 grit first myself, (and usually then that's enough for the cutting edge for me).

But I'm sure your approach also works.

>>8019799
I don't shoot, but I imagine with rifles there's a pretty similar thing going on as with knives. You have your ultra low end cheap shit, made of the cheapest possible materials using the cheapest methods, designed to undercut everyone and capture the market segment that shops on price (low). And you have your ridiculous stuff made by some grizzled old man where the tiniest little parts are made by hand, by feel, at incredible expense and for no real benefit other than "it's real neato", often targeted by those who shop on price (high).

But then there's this space in the middle where good materials and good modern manufacturing gets you something objectively better than both

When people say "I don't need a high end knife", they act like the middle and the top are the same thing, even though they're not. And then they act like they've outsmarted everyone by getting the low, even though they've only outsmarted themselves.

The one and only

>>8019924
>I don't shoot, but I imagine with rifles there's a pretty similar thing going on as with knives

There is. A $400 Ruger with the same in good optics will shoot better than the average shooter ever could.

>>8020097
So the Ruger would be the Tojiro, the fabled folded 9000 times knife made of pig iron is the H&H rifle where each dress screw is custom made to fit in a hole that will take no other screw, and the Wusthoff is your average Saturday night special?

>>7999810
the only name you need

>VICTORKNOX yes its made in switzerland. yes the same people who make the swiss army knives.
no they arent cheap but quality you should only have to pay for once

>>8020147
>doesn't know what meme arrows are for
>tripfag
reeeeeeeeeeeeeee get this summer out of here

Alot of my co-workers use the Misono-UX10. It's a good knife but I prefer Ryusen knives or my Togiharu Damascus 8inch knife. If you live in NYC go to Korin on Chambers Street

>>8020171
Togiharu isn't a brand
Misono ux10 is GOAT though

>>8020167
This whole thread is full of 14 year olds and hilarious to read though. Don't stop now though kids, let's hear more about how much you know about sharpened chunks of metal and how superior you are in wake of the competition.
Chefs knives are literally useless in any practical application. Debate me.

>>7999810
just pick up a generic one with a handle you like from your local restaurant supply store

>>8020181

>>8020176
Togiharu is a house brand of Korin no?

>>8020214
Correct
It's like calling Great Value a "brand"

>>8020181 You

>>8020181

So what do you use to cut up large vegetables or slice proteins then? Harsh language?

http://www.hocho-knife.com/sakai-takayuki-33-layer-vg10-damascus-hammered-chef-knife-gyuto-240mm/?_ga=1.111320070.309990597.1471603788

>tfw friend chipped the tip off my knife

>>8020569
A serrated deli knife.
Are you mad? You need to tear your lettuce up and wash it before you cut it anyways.
What kind of dumbass slices a whole head of lettuce, pesticides, dirt and all?
Name one application where an offset serrated knife is innefective and I'll shut up.

>>8020657

You slice raw proteins with an offset serrated knife? How's that work out for you?

You dice onions with that thing too? Must take you a week to slice up a cucumber too.

But hey, whatever it takes to avoid learning how to sharpen I guess.

>>8020679
Yes in fact. One backwards swipe cuts perfect strips of steak, one swipe with the unserrated tip trims fat, and onions are only a problem if you're mentally retarded.
How the fuck can you NOT cut onions with a serrated knife? It actually bites and helps control slice size.
Cucumber? trouble? Sharpened steel? Lol dude.

>>8019734
:^) *smooch*
you know I love you, anon.

>>8020699

You cut perfect strips of steak in one slice with a offset serrated knife? And use the rounded tip to trim the fat? Really? Sure thing boss.

And I didn't suggest that there was anything difficult about using that type of knife for onions or slicing cucumber, just needlessly slow and inconvenient.

But hey, if it works for you and let's you justify not learning how to sharpen to yourself, then more power too you.

Personally I prefer to use an extremely sharp laser geometry gyuto for my kitchen needs, but I freehand sharpen so maintenance is easy for me.

>>8020699

Hey look everyone, this guy >>8000645 is back for more!

>>8020699
>muh offset knife
>all I could ever need

Someone's just read 'Kitchen Confidential' and feels the need to LARP

>>8020768
Funny thing is, Bourdain got himself an expensive real Kramer knife and waxes poetic on it.

/ck/

I am looking to buy a chefs knife and a santoku and I was wondering if the Victorinox Fibrox at $40+ are still worth their price. At this price point, are there any other better knives? Last time I purchased the chef knife it was $20.

>>8020830
If you insist on getting two knives, I would suggest getting a nakiri instead of a santoku. Get a big boy chef knife (240mm) and a normal sized nakiri (~165mm). Tojiro DP are your go-to choices for a little more than a vic, but vic still makes a good chef knife. Tojiro DP will be a more satisfying knife to own though, and has better steel (generic jap VG-10)

https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-47521-10-Inch-Fibrox-Handle/dp/B0000CF8YO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1472010388&sr=8-6&keywords=fibrox

https://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-DP-Gyutou-8-2-21cm/dp/B000UAQOUA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472010455&sr=8-1&keywords=tojiro%2Bdp

https://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-4099-Kitchen-Knife-F-502/dp/B000UAUKHI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1472010455&sr=8-6&keywords=tojiro+dp

>>8020866
Thanks, I have nothing against the victorinox knives but they doubled in price since I got a chef knife so I was wondering if there was anything better around the same cost. Any recommendation for a pairing knife?

>>8020717
Too fucking hilarious to pass up triggering knifetards with drunken banter.
This thread is literal shit and it's attracting flies.

>>8020768
Complete misconception, correct your aim.

>>8020927
Get whatever. An expensive paring knife is a mistake imho, I don't really use mine much. You'll be using a peeler for most of things a paring knife was made for.

>>8020937
>I was merely being retarded.
you're like one of those guys in /diy/ who swear they can do everything with vice grips and a bit screwdriver

>>8020951
Ah thanks.

>>8020951
>quoting things that were never said

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

This just keeps getting better.
Go to bed, you have school in the morning you mentally incapacitated shitposting troglodyte.

>>8021252
You're defending your usage of a deli knife for everything in a chef knife thread, and when everyone calls you out for making such a weird/stupid decision, you peg it up to be "drunken bantering! Just triggering you stupid knifetards :^)"

Totally ebin, my dude! Why did you decide to come into this thread again? You're not contributing anything, and calling everyone underaged or a "knifetard" (in a knife thread, go figure) is obnoxious and unhelpful.

At the very least post a link to the knife you personally use so that your deli knife gospel can be meaningful instead of just being combative shitposting.

>>8021289
>quoting things that were never said

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

Did you miss that link, friend?
Take your fucking smily faces elsewhere, we're all sick of unproductive posts on this board.
Typing a thousand words to tell me why my choice of cutting implement is wrong is "helpful" and "non combative" to you?

Send me your address and I'll mail you a small fragment of a mirror so you can define hypocrisy in your own mind, because no one has properly explained this concept to you.

The knife and brand hasn't been manufactured for 65 years, so why ask? Flint was bought by Ekco 30-40 years ago.
The fact that it cuts steaks like butter after 50-60 years with no maintenance speaks for itself.
Meanwhile you wankers fuck with 3 different sharpening stones twice weekly because you can't cut a tomato otherwise. It's laughable that anyone considers chefs knives viable when you need specialized cutting boards, sharpening stones and weekly maintenance.

You still need to name one task that a serrated knife is completely useless for or I'll just keep laughing about it.

>>8021334

>>8020937
>Too fucking hilarious to pass up triggering knifetards with drunken banter.

In your own words.

My great grandmother used vanadium flint and ekco serrated knives in East Tennessee. Rural Appalachia, just like where you come from. My mother still uses the 2 short serrated paring knives that she had at the farmhouse, and they still work great for certain things.

But you know what? Those old-school country serrated knives are not a replacement for a good nice chef knife.

You shouldn't need to spend a lot of money for one or obsess over steels, stones, and sharpening methods (like some faggots are doing in here,) but there IS a reason why nearly every goddamn reputable chef and culinary instrucutor EVER says that the most essential tool in the kitchen is a good chef knife. They're not all shills trying to jew you out of your hard earned money.

While your relic of a knife may work for you anecdotally, it is not the jack-of-all-trades knife that will allow a new cook to master various cutting skills.

It cannot:
-mince herbs, garlic, shallots, etc.
-french onions
-do fine cuts such as julienne for salads and stir fry or brunoise for garnish and soups
-filet a fish
-smash garlic with the flat of the blade

All these things a chef knife is excellent at. In fact, the only thing a serrated knife could possibly be better at than a chef knife is cutting bread and maybe slicing tomatoes.

P.S. if you are that guy who said he was from Appalachia and he couldn't grow herbs, bullshit. My family comes from the mountains there too, and granny had an herb garden that she maintained from WW2 to her death. Stop making excuses for yourself having a sad and limited palate.

Holy shit, anon you triggered me so hard.

>>8021380
I use it for onions, peppers and steak once every two months. My memory is shit so my meals are purchased and prepared one at a time.
It's not like I don't own a chefs knife, I just have no reasonable application for it.

This isn't my property, I can not have a garden here. Fresh herbs are not worth growing to me anyways, being a single male with literally no use for anything but salt and pepper. I understand this pisses you off, but let's be real, I cook food 8 times a month or less and am restricted to $6 a day for all of my needs. Eating like Ramsay is obviously not important to me.
Goodnight anyways.

>>8021408
>implying you cannot grow herbs on a window sill or even your fucking closet if you wanted to.

>>8021457
Eh. Don't worry about it, he backed down. Doesn't even sound like he cooks much anyways, if having some herbs is "eating like Ramsay"

/ck/
I prep a lot of raw beef rump, lamb leg and pork shoulder.
Could i get any recommendation as to what type of knife i should be looking for?
I just use the average chinese cleaver you can buy at an asian supermarket but is there any specific knife i should keep in mind for my next purchase? thanks.

>>8021501
A thin flexible boning knife is great at getting silverskin and cleaning around bones and joints. In this case, western is much better than japanese, as they don't really make good knives for that kind of meat. They can't handle a good scraping against a joint like a good traditional boning knife should. A good heavy cleaver and a nimble boning knife are your best friends.

https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-6-Inch-Boning-Fibrox-Handle/dp/B000QCNJ3C/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1472029690&sr=8-3&keywords=boning+knife

or

https://www.amazon.com/Wusthof-Gourmet-6-Inch-Flexible-Boning/dp/B0000DJYW5/ref=pd_sbs_79_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=FZ4RH5EE47FJV0HYRDB7

>>8021519
your wife is a thin flexible boning wife

>>8021519
thanks for the recommendations for the boning knives, but for large amounts of boned out protien, just the meat what would be the perfered too for slicing this way?

>>8021521
kek

>>8021528
*tool* damnit

>>8021528
If you want to slice lots of meat super accurately a sharp 10" or so chef's knife is your best friend. If you need to go on bones and trim fat a more nimble boning knife and a cleaver is good. Really get all three if you can and find what works for you.

>>8020830
The Fibrox arre worth their price. They're actually inexpensive.

I'd go for the Chef's knife without hesitating.

For the Santoku, I probably would go with Ikea 365+ or a Japanese Kai. Or pic related 'cause it works and is a woman magnet.

>>8021528
Get a slicer of some kind. The japs call 'em sujihikis, but those are basically like western slicers. If you are a bushido ninja master sushi sensei, then you can get yourself a yanagiba, which is the absolute best knife for boneless protein prep. But for us mere mortals who don't want to deal with a single-beveled blade or maintain carbon steel, I recommend this:

https://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-DP-Sujihiki-Slicer-10-5/dp/B000UAQOTQ/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1472030499&sr=8-8&keywords=tojiro+dp

I have this exact one and it's great at other things than just meat. But yeah,>>8021533 is right. If you have a long-ish chef knife that could work too. But you said you use a cleaver, so I thought you might want something more sleek for all your slicing needs. If $75 is too much for a knife, get this:

https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Slicer-Semi-Flexible-Pointed-Fibrox/dp/B001C3QXXW/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1472030719&sr=8-15&keywords=fibrox+slicer

although, you'll just wish you had gotten the tojiro (or something better) in the end.

Frankly, if use a chinese cleaver, a boning knife, a sujihiki, a paring knife, and maybe a heavy cleaver, you're pretty much good on everything. Oh, and don't let anyone tell you you can't cut bread without a serrated knife, you can. Just keep your sujihiki/slicer sharp.

>>8021543
>If you are a bushido ninja master sushi sensei
Believe it.

thanks for the recommendations i've been looking for a while now but just couldn't decide on the right knife.
The chinese cleaver i used is pretty much the best thing i have right now because i work with the whole rump steak and i find the height of the blade good for getting through it.
Money is not an issue in this case as i'll be seeing it as an investment for my business.
Cheers

>>7999810
Go on ebay get something carbon and old
Cheap + quality.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-RAZOR-SHARP-Carbon-Steel-10-blade-LAMSON-wood-USA-Chef-bolster-Knife-/322238584633?hash=item4b06ea9739:g:RlUAAOSw6n5XvTvk

>>8021543
>Oh, and don't let anyone tell you you can't cut bread without a serrated knife, you can. Just keep your sujihiki/slicer sharp.
You can, but keeping your slicer very sharp vs just using a Victorinox or perhaps Ikea bread knife that will work fine on bread for a long ass time without sharpening is more work.

And you save what, $25...? Not worth it for bread-eaters IMO.

>>8021563
That has a shitty blade profile. And it costs $80.

Why would you prefer something like that to a Victorinox Fibrox or Ikea 365+. Or some $80 Japanese or German knife?

>>8021570
True dat, you're right. I got my bread knife for 5 bucks in the bargain bin at my restaurant supply, and it works great.

But for people who don't eat much bread, like those /fit/izen cretins, I just wanted to make a point that you can do a serviceable job cutting some bread with a slicer. I still cut my bagels with my slicer.

>>8021575
Carbon steel is just nice, especially old knives made of virgin steel. Sharpens easily, holds an edge for a decent amount of time. I dunno horses for courses I guess.

>>8021570

Not the guy who suggested that, but I would presume anyone who knows how to sharpen their chef's knife (or slicer) will be doing so regularly anyway, thus using it for bread doesn't add any work.

>>8020830
>Santoku
>Nakiri

Don't do this anon. Don't fall for the memes.

A chef's knife can do anything these two knives can do. I have a Santoku and a Nakiri and I rarely use them.

Don't get me wrong, they're fine for certain applications but they're not as versatile as a chef's knife for home use IMHO.

>>8020937
>lol I trole you le ebin maymay master trole lol lol lol

Go fuck yourself, pal. And that's the last you'll get out of me in this thread.

>>8021772

Carbon steel is very nice for kitchen cutlery applications because it is easy to heat treat to have a very fine microscopic grain structure which supports taking a very fine apex and that apex resisting microscopic chipping or rolling from repeated cutting board contacts.

Unfortunately, vintage carbon steel blades were typically not hardened high enough to take full advantage of those traits, modern carbon steel kitchen cutlery made by American small makers and a bunch of Japanese makers are typically hardened quite a bit harder than the vintage stuff (~60-64 HRC vs ~52-55 HRC, if that means anything to you).

The trade-off is that carbon steel knives have to be cared for so they don't corrode.

Mind you, we are only a few years away from the widescale availability of nitrogen steels (they replace carbon with nitrogen) which can create steels identical to existing pure carbon steels, except they are totally rust proof too.

>>8021874
Close enough I should wait to buy a really high end knife or are we talking like 7+ years?

I got to hold a lot of high end Japanese and German knives, and a couple from a small American custom maker, and I'm absolutely hooked on the feel of one of the Japanese brands. But that nitrogen stuff sounds nicer than the white carbon steel.

>>8022007

I wouldn't wait, it will steel be a few years before nitrogen steels are produced in enough volume to not be outrageously expensive for knife use.

White steel is great at high hardness, you'll just have to take the usual care required for a non-stainless blade.

If you are really concerned about corrosion, there are ways to heavily mitigate it as an issue. There's a USDA approved foodsafe lubricant and anti rusting agent called froglube which can be used to render a carbon steel knife pretty resistant to oxidization.

>>8022007
>But that nitrogen stuff sounds nicer

It does, but it's going to be a while before it's practically available. It technically exists now, but only as a rare speciality material that few people know how to work with. Once it gets into the knife are it's going to be introduced as a new and special thing with a high price tag to match. By the time it becomes fully available, the price isn't insane, and all the kinks and gotchas have been worked out (or at least become known) it will be a few years, sure.

>>8022052
Not concerned about corrosion, I already use vintage carbon knives so I'm used to drying and oiling. Just figured if nitrogen was going to have all the good and also not corrode with no downsides then why not get that? But if it's not right on the horizon I'll just get a nice knife soon.