/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>6779797
I'd gladly pay extra on my meal if it meant not dealing with this bullshit. Not to mention how incredibly full of themselves the average waiter is. I've worked as a waiter it's not harder than any other job out there. This duality of greed in the waiter/owner is poor form all around. If I ran a business I would pay my waiters a lower wage, but I would be giving them full health benefits and standard time off, because that's how you take care of people. And institutions like this only flourish because of the dumbest labor law that is minimum wage. Minimum wage is a simple trick that corporations abuse people into thinking that it's on their side. But wait you say, the minimum wage is mandated by the government and calculated for the lowest cost of living! Minimum wage is pointlesss because as the name implies it encourages the MINIMUM on the workers and the companies parts. They treat their staff like shit because there is an endless pool of minimum wage workers. The workers perform poorly because they are making the literally bottom of the barrel. And at the end of the day minimum wage misses the most important issue, the actual needs of the people. People need healthcare and housing first, money second. Abolishing minimum wage, but establishing mandatory benefits would be so much better for workers, but they focus on the dollar per hour instead of the real cost of living. That's how I feel at least.
tl;dr: tipping is a pointless institution that rewards the wrong person and is a product of the worse idea of minimum wage which eliminates the urge to perform and makes companies/workers complacent.

If you're in the United States, you tip 15-20 percent.

If you're in the United States and are a mental deficient and refuse to follow social structure, stay home.

Wait am I reading this right? Waiters in the United States get underpaid because they receive tips?

>>6779830
In the US, if you receive other monetary compensation you can be underpaid minimum wage, since in theory tips will make that up, however, if you do in fact not make minimum wage with tips you can tell your employer and they are legally obligated to pay the difference.

The minimum wage for service workers in the US is $2.13. I don't know how your rant above about entitled waiters and minimum wage fits into this (it doesn't).

>>6779833
The whole point is that it's a shitty system that is only continued because of greed not just on the employers part, but the employee as well.

>>6779818

nah, i'll just pay my bill and not a penny more

you can enjoy paying up to a fifth of the price of your meal because that's your prerogative, not mine

it's not my job to help pay someone's salary, it's the employer's

people like you are why waiters are underpaid, you're enabling the employers

Because $2.13 an hour is sufficient pay so they're just being greedy?

>>6779831

Oh that makes me feel a little better. I only gave a very small (5%) tip to my waitress when I was in America because she was incredibly annoying, constantly returning to the table to make sure everything was "alright" and interrupting our conversations trying to be likeable. I guess that might just be culture clash because here in the Netherlands I'm used to waiting staff just visiting to take the order, deliver the food, and then to have the bill paid. Not in between unless you beckon them over.

But if they earn a decent wage at least if they don't get tipped enough, then it works out. Still kinda weird that tips aren't a bonus but get the normal pay deducted from them first before they become a bonus.

>>6779841
As I stated previously they accept 2.13 an hour on the promise of tips and expect in fact to make more than minimum wage. Let me put it this way, if I were to offer all the waiters in the US 2 options, 1) you make the minimum wage or 2) you make the service minimum wage with the chance for tips, which do you think they'd take? The greed of the owner and the workers works to not only hurt the consumer (who has to foot the owners lack of payment), but the worker too who loses access to the more important things like health care benefits.

>>6779842
Tip what you feel is right, it's not your job to pay anyone's wages and I prefer an upfront system.

>>6779844

Why can't the staff make normal minimum wage and also get tips?

There are a few states where workers lobbied for a higher minimum wage and additional rules to prevent owners from taking cuts, distributing to salaried workers, taking losses out of tips, etc. So I have my doubt's about which choice most waiters would take given a choice. The vast majority of high end restaurants pool tips, treat them as extras to hand to the kitchen staff as well, because the waiters are well trained and receive much much higher pay.

Sure, you can be a dick and not tip as a form of 'protest' but what you should be doing is lobbying for federal changes in payment structures for service workers, and protections for said workers (in a lot of states its legal for employers to take broken dishes, customers that don't pay etc out of the waiters tips). But OK you would rather be an internet tough guy and look for others to pat you on the back so your rudeness is justified.

>>6779847
Well obviously they could in the real world they could, but the point I was getting at is that they would take the chance for more money. In reality a waiter should make minimum wage, and maybe get a tip if the customer feels like it was worth it, but for me that would be a hell of a good service.

>>6779853
Labor wages fall on the worker. I don't support the system because I find it silly, but if you as a worker merely accept what is going to happen then it's up to you to make your own way.

>>6779830
In the US employers barely pay at all and make up the excuse that the customers should tip. Prohibition. People losing money.. Why should I pay.... more sheckles for big boss

>>6779839
>it's not my job to help pay someone's salary,

but in a private business it's always the customer who ends up paying

whether you pay the extra as a tip, or just pay a higher price for the food as the salaries are increased to cover for the non-tippers.

>>6779797
It isn't the job of the consumers to pay the distributor for their service. The manufacturer pays the distributor to sell the product that they have created, and the consumers pay for the product. The money for the product is then split between manufacturer and distributor along an already established percentage. This is my understanding of how normal business works, but the service industry seems a bit different. In the Service Industry the food is the product. The work isn't too expensive so neither is the food. The employer pays the cooks for the food, that is the main attraction. The cook can't stop what they're doing to distribute the food so then a server is hired. The server distributes the food , which is the product, to the customers, the consumers. The employer doesn't feel that the distributors are really doing much of a job, they're taking food from point A to point B which is essentially 20 feet. The employer pays the cook more because they are doing the main job, and the servers less because they don't feel their role is that useful. Employers feels like they're still paying too much to the server so they kinda keep cutting pay until they feel its an appropriate amount. Server knows they they need more money. Employer doesn't want to pay, but has to "pay" somehow. So they make up an excuse that the customer has to pay the server since they get to sit down and relax instead of walking to get food. Consumer feels sympathy and does so. Other employers hear this and follow the same. Employer keeps more money, while having more employees, which means more government benefits. It becomes a hegemony and no one questions it. An outsiders see this and brings the question to light, the consumers are now split between what they "think" is right and what they "feel" is right. Morals against principles now divide the consumers, but they continue to consume aforementioned product. Employer keeps more money, gets more benefits, so on and so forth. Repeat.

>>6779839
You are the equivalent of a scumbag thief

>>6779797
Most resturants struggle as it is, imagine if their employee wages doubled. What will they have to raise?
Food prices exponentially.
So just tip. It's cheaper that way.

>>6779831
>>6779833
>>6779841

Learn the fucking law. Employers don't pay servers 2.13. They pay them the legal minimum wage, and then take a credit against the payment based upon tips earned to reduce the payment to 2.13 an hour.

This only happens when a server reports enough in tips to average 5.12 an hour during the pay period. If they got tipped 4.12, they would be paid 3.13, 3.12 4.13 etc

The simple truth is that the average server earns well over minimum wage with tips involved, and no server makes less than minimum wage unless his employer is stealing from him.

Which brings up the other wrongful bitching. I always hear about endless "side work" and having to spend an hour after close rolling silverware for 2.13 an hour. If your restaurant makes you do this, it is illegal and you should contact your state's labor board. Any work not directly related to earning tips, must be paid at the full minimum wage.

As a side note, your tip share is also probably illegal if forced. Stop participating, they can't retaliate against you for keeping your money. If they fire you, sue their asses.

>>6779854
>be me
>work pizza delivery making servant wages $2.15
>$.25 paid per delivery out of delivery charge, store kept the rest
>50% of customers broke as fuck, other 50% tip reasonably
>end of shift manager asked how much in tips made, I claim no tips
>employer forced to pay $7.25 per hour and all tips I really did make went right in my pocket

How many waiters are you tipping that do this same thing to work the system to make more?

I did this where I work because 1 large supreme pizza cost only $4.50 to make but was sold for $22.50, large pepperoni cost $3.75 sold for $17.75. That's a a profit margin of roughly 373% to 400% from each pizza sold, they could afford it no problems.

>>6779991
This is absolutely right.
+1

>>6780092
Interesting. Around here most of the chains pay drivers 5-8 an hour, and around a dollar per delivery.

I think it is the need for people with reliable vehicles and a lack of dui's.

>>6780092
Waitstaff who force their employer to actually make the minimum wage payment get fired, for obscure reasons if necessary.

>>6780092
In some places taxi drivers are required to claim X amount in tips to keep their taxi license. Then at the end of the year they can claim refunds from IRS for overpayment. However this requires very good records. Most people just ignore it because they probably made more in tips than the IRS required them to claim.

I think a similar 3 bucks per delivery would work for pizza.

>be working as a line cook
>end of my shift, hungry af
>get one of the servers to ring up a burger for me (boh can't use the pos system)
>make my burger
>take it to the back and eat it
>go up to pay for it
>skip past the tip screen
>server watches me skip it, gives me the nastiest snake eyes I've ever seen
>throws receipt down on the table and marches away like I just smacked her
Bitch, literally all you did was press 4 buttons that I would've done myself if I could. I used up maybe 90 seconds of her time. Servers need to get the fuck over themselves.

>>6780141
Hairdressers often don't get paid by their salon. Instead they rent their chair for X a day plus a percentage of their client fees.

If servers are such hot shit, maybe they should start renting their tables instead.

>>6780141
It's a victim complex, society says that need to be tipped to survive because without it they combust into flames and their entire family dies in a car accident; so when they don't get tipped they think did something wrong when in reality the only wrong thing they did was become a server.

I feel like, instead of a minimum wage, the government should give everyone 10000 dollars a year.

Suddenly people won't have work just to survive. The labor force will go down for low paying jobs, forcing the companies to raise wages. Similarly we could get rid of tipping, and servers would be paid a fair wage for their work.

>>6780170
where the fuck can you live in america on $10,000 a year?

>>6779797
>?
tldr. faggoy

>>6780176
8% of households are currently doing so.
another 5% make less than 15k

Get married, and 20k is more than what 18% of Americans are living off of.

>>6780193
That's still a poverty wage.

I work hard for my money, arguably harder than servers - I make a lot more per hour, however at the end of the year they make more than me, because I pay taxes on all my income.

if you pay with a card, tip on the card - they cannot tax free pocket that money.

>>6779797
The simple solution is to takeaway rather than eat in with the other people who can't cook.

>>6780283
that solution does nothing but give the business more money.

its already included in bill, you don't get a different price for take out/dine in.

if you did a take out, do you still tip? the person brought you your food...literally the same is if you sat down - even drinks - literally the same if you only have 1 glass - why not tip fast food servers? for the same reason.

Somewhat related: Do you have to write in the tip amount on your receipt if you pay with a card?

I just started paying for things with plastic, and just figured I could be lazy and only write out the new subtotal, including tip.

Moved back to school Thursday and spent all yesterday hitting up my favorite bars for food with friends. Just checked my card activity and noticed that my three meals came in as the only the pre-tip amount.

Did I fuck up or am I overlooking something? Going to be really embarrassed if I went cheap on my favorite waitresses.

>>6779847
in some states they do

>>6779797
I must say I agree with your sentiment about the cook. I would love to tip cooks instead of waiters because the cooks are the ones making it all! Especially if the food is particularly outstanding.

Whats a scenario where you have tipped a waiter well? Most of the time I tip the minimum unless the waiter is particularly awesome.

>>6780119
Well their probably doing a shit job (or the restaurant is just always dead) if they aren't making enough in tips to cover minimum wage

>>6780141
you were a cook, couldn't you just make it yourself and eat it or was your management that anal?

In TN I usually tip 22% or $10, whichever is more. I don't make a lot but I'm making more than I ever have before and I have lots of friends that are servers. Disgusting TN inbreds don't tip half the time.

IF YOU CANT AFFORD TO TIP THEN STAY THE FUCK HOME YOU PISSBABY

>>6780384
Most places require all orders, even from staff, to go through POS to deter theft and track food costs and such, it's pretty typical outside of restaurants where staff gets a family meal.

>>6780395
Ok I'll take my business elsewhere, psychotic waiter.

>>6780193
>households
You can't afford to rent anything with that much money. That's like $800 a month.

In my area the cheapest studio apartment is like $400 if you're lucky, most are at least $500. Then utilites are at least $150 if not $250. Car insurance is like what $100? personally I have to pay $190 because I have one accident on record and I'm 20. Necessities per month is probably around $100, and food is another $100 at least; that's just rice and beans every day shit.

This already adds up to $850 with no room for anything. You would be living a miserable life.

>>6780428
I pay £300 rent, and I'll pay that much on a mortgage soon, about £15~ a month on electricity, about £2 on gas and water, £30 internet, and I don't drive. About £15 for a month's worth of toilet paper, toothpaste, brushes, and soap. Food's £100 because Liverpool likes to strangle people because there's thousands of cash laden students running around who need draining.

So that's £462 a month, at most. You yanks are being robbed.

>>6780428
That's still super cheap for a lot of places. Where I live (Vancouver, BC), 850 a month would almost certainly not even cover rent. Most places here even a one room apartment is over 1000/month.

I think it's a dumb custom too.

But regardless of how you feel about it, the system is in place in the US. It is expected of you whether you agree or not. If you don't tip, you're just a faggot who gets servers to pay for part of your meal.

okay, so I understand that sometimes you can get too many tables to take care of the way you want.

most of the time a server writes down what you want to drink/eat, drops paper off for someone to prepare it, some places server grab premade salads out of the fridge and dressing (this is not cooking) bring drinks to table and every 15min check to see level. Then once food is cooked they bring food to table, I can train a primate to do this within a month, you do minimal work for minimal pay.

so 2 restaurants: 2 servers working in each, both have a table of 5, both order the same meal - everything is the same, same amount of plates, ect ect - one restaurant happens to be proud of their food/place and charges 2x the other, now your going to tip the server in the more expensive place 2x for what reason?

oh I like to point out all the min wage jobs that don't get tips too.

>>6779797
bump

I tip 5 dollars per hour spent at the restaurant. I figure that if the server has 4 tables then he will be making 20 dollars. That is more than I make.

>>6779797

>I don't believe that if you bring me a glass of water, and the food I asked in the appropriate time you deserve a tip. You deserve a wage because you did your job. I don't expect rewards at my job for doing the same fucking job I was hired for, so what makes waiters and waitresses so damn special?

the wages for waiters and waitresses are significantly lower than they are for other jobs because of the expectation that they will receive tips to make up the difference.

if you believe that people should receive a fair wage for their work, and you live in America where the minimum wage for servers is absurdly low (like $2-$3/hr), you should tip them to make up the difference.

if you think this arrangement is stupid, yes, you are correct. if it weren't legal for restaurants to pay servers a 'sub-minimum-wage,' nobody would have to tip. there are various political ways that you could push for servers to receive normal wages like other employees do (or like other servers in Europe or Australia or wherever do). in the meantime, though, if you think a person should receive a fair wage for their work, you should tip, because without tips servers in North America do not receive a fair wage.

in conclusion, great bait, mate!

>>6779991
>I always hear about endless "side work" and having to spend an hour after close rolling silverware for 2.13 an hour. If your restaurant makes you do this, it is illegal and you should contact your state's labor board and get fired and look for a different restaurant job where you will also be screwed because state labor boards are toothless and have no authority and restaurants can fire/hire at will and no one will ever unionize restaurants to fix this situation

ftfy

>>6779797
You do know most places pull tips and split them between FOH and BOH right?

>>6781128
>labor board
>no authority

They can totally pull the restaurants business license if the restaurant refuses to pay you owed back pay. If the restaurant still doesn't pay, you get to file to foreclose on their business. Then you get to sell their shit until they pay you back.

Similarly, if you are worried about unemployment during legislation, you have the option to wait for up to 2 years after you leave the job to file your labor board claim.

>>6781152
> they owe me back pay
> no we don't

Case closed.

>>6779884
underrated

OP here again, interesting to see all the different views. I'd also like to point out that the first 2 posts are me continuing my explanation. But getting back to the original point and the main counter argument I see over and over. Getting paid less because you make tips is a product of your own complacency. Waiters accept it based on the promise of tips and most (though they would never admit it) plan on making more by using that sympathy factor. This Anon >>6781122 sorta of understands what I mean, but again I pose the question to all you waiters out there how many of you would take the minimum wage as described here >>6779844. I also think it's funny that many of the assumptions here are that you can't cook if you go out to eat. Going out to eat could be about enjoying the meal, or supporting that local terriyaki place that gives you enough food to feed 3 people for $8.

>>6781380

it's not meaningful to ask if people would accept minimum wage. I wouldn't accept minimum wage to do anything, period, unless I was literally starving to death.

you should ask if servers would be okay with working for the prevailing wage for other no-training-required entry-level positions in their city. being a server is pretty much on par with being, say, an office receptionist. entry-level wages for a receptionist in my city are around $17-18/hr, and yes, if I was still at the point in my life where I was considering entry-level positions, I would be comfortable serving for $17-18/hr. minimum wage here is by comparison about $10.50 and I laugh at anyone who tries to offer me a job for $10.50/hr - even the mcdonalds here pays like $14.50 to new untrained employees

>>6781433

I should note that while $17+ for serving seems astronomical when you look at it, it's going to be comparable in terms of cost to the customer to tipping.

labor costs typically come out to around 20-30% of a restaurant's total costs, so if you get rid of tipping (thus reducing cost to the customer by 15-20%), you can increase base wages by 75-100% and end up with menu prices that are pretty much exactly what customers were previously paying.

>>6781152
>the system works, you guys! you won't get fucked! you just have to believe!

>>6780384
We get a freebie if we're doing a closing shift, otherwise we just get 40% off and have to ring it in before we make it.