/ck/ - Food & Cooking

What is your question
Of course it's all bullshit

>>6641515
All the time she sat on her ass reading that book could have been better spent exercising.

Your mother is dumb as hell. Make her read the sticky brah

My mother read grain brain and now she is convinced as well. avoiding gluten isn't the worst thing in the world, go with it for a bit. no harm in that.

>>6641524
Forgot to type it.

Basically does anybody know whether a gluten-free diet is completely bullshit. Not out of health benefits but to avoid the whole "wheat is contaminated by the BIG BAD EVIL GM corporation"

It's yet another fad diet book that promises a magic bullet for weight loss, written by this chubby guy

There's many valid health reasons to avoid refined wheat products, but wheat itself is not evil.

>>6641532

>grain brain

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/alzheimers-disease-grain-brain-or-meathead/

>>6641532
except when it tricks you into thinking you're actually doing something. Fad diets that have no legitimate effect do real harm in a few ways. It convinces you you're making meaningful changes when you aren't. When those changes don't produce results, you're more likely to write off all diets. You're also less likely to adopt a meaningful diet while you're on a bullshit one.

calorie control and exercise are the only proven weight loss mechanisms. If you're busy telling yourself you're on a gluten free diet so bread is bad, but you can still eat candy bars and drink soda because those don't have gluten, you're fucked.

>>6641539
A gluten-free diet is not completely bullshit. Now go away faggot.

People have been eating wheat for more than 10,000 years, and it has yet to kill us. Your mom is a moron, you're a moron, the person who wrote that book is a fucking liar and/or a moron.

>>6641575
I've been saying that to her, yet she always replies "but in recent years wheat is all now GM as there isn't a single unmodified strain left"

>>6641575
Anon everyone who has been eating wheat for the last 10000 years has died spoooky,

>>6641579

Have you considered pointing out that her reply is incorrect? It's simply not true.

>>6641579
your mom is retarded, there is literally nothing wrong with GMOs. Millions would have died long ago if we didn't modify crops to wield more to be able to feed more people. If you hate GMOs, you are literally hating poorer people having food to eat.

>>6641564
Why are soccer moms browsing 4chan? Don't you know this is a wiccan poetry board?

>>6641555
my mother doesn't eat candy, she just avoids gluten because of her brain and well being or whatever. It hurts no one. It actually makes her cook more food from scratch and therefore she can determine what goes into it. No one gets harmed, I have even enjoyed the food when I visit her.

>>6641608
>If you hate GMOs, you are literally hating poorer people having food to eat.

Yeah, that's about right. I'd be perfectly happy if there were a few hundred million less Chinese, Indians and Africans polluting the shit out of everything and swarming into first-world nations like a plague. The third world is hideously overpopulated right now and more than anything else that stunts their independent development and makes them indefinitely dependent on first-world nations instead of letting progress take its course.

>>6641608
>your mom is retarded, there is literally nothing wrong with GMOs. Millions would have died long ago if we didn't modify crops to wield more to be able to feed more people.

This. One of my biggest pet peeves, that never fails to fill me with rage, is the fact that people genuinely have no idea what "GMO" means. It just means "genetically modified organism". What people fail to realize is that humans have been genetically modifying organisms for MILLENNIA through selective breeding. The only difference between then and now is that now we do it in a laboratory.

>mfw I saw a bumper sticker that said "Keep your GMOs out of my food!"

Gluten is good for you make sure to eat it with processed vegetable seed oil too for those omega 3 fatty acids, make sure to pick up some Enbrel® from the doctor too when your inflammations gets out of control

Gluten is undeniably shitty once you do some research on it, I still eat it though because it's everywhere and I'm too lazy for diets

>>6641585
holy crap, this made me laugh way more than it should have

>>6641737

>once you do some research on it

as in reading magazines and fearmongering books?

>>6641515
120lb and have been eating like 6 pieces of wheat bread a day for like 6 years. before that i was eating shitty generic white bread, so yeah, it is all bullshit.

>>6641737
>wheat protein is EVIL
literally how

>>6641515
>gluten-free diet
This won't work at all if she just buys the gluten free version of the same stuff.
A good way to loose weight and don't cut down on eating is to just eat foods low in energy while relatively high in nutriens.

>"all wheat now is genetically modified and there isn't a single grain that is the same as how it was years ago".
Even one-grained wheat and amelcorn? I don't think so. You should even be able to get non GMO spelt. She could just make bread and pasta herself if she's worried about that.

>>6641850

'cause it's... 'cause the um... the government and stuff.... it's everywhere, so it's... bad and shit.... rah rah, rebel rebel....

>>6641515
>I have no idea whether this book is bullshit or not

Protip: Anyone who says something like "just cutting it out your life magically stops all your problems" (or adding something, for that matter) is talking out of their ass. There are no panaceas in this world.

>>6641515
Get out of here /fit/.

>>6641515
New dumb fad diet #6165412454. Not eating gluten when you don't have an intolerance does fuck all for your health.

>gain extreme amounts of weight via a "wheat belly"

What the fuck?

>>6641585

>>6641564
If you have celiac disease, otherwise there's no point.

Gluten makes for some pretty fluffy.tasty pastries, I'm really thankfull I can eat it.

Op, you're not going to get a lot of support on this issue in /ck/. Lots of people think the whole gluten thing is bunk. All I can tell you is my own experience.

About five years ago I started to have painful stomach problems. I could not figure out what was causing the seemingly random stomach pain I was experiencing. I started to. Believe that I might possibly be allergic to pork. We don't eat pork at home, but I do when we go out to eat. I noticed that often I had stomach pain after eating out, so I thought it might be the pork (or the soybeans that most pork is finished on). Well I stopped eating pork but the pain continued. Sometimes I would feel bad days after eating out, sometimes it was almost immediately as soon as I started eating. There seemed to be no rhyme or reason to it. I heard about people having a reaction to gluten, so I stopped eating all wheat products. That sharp stomach pain stopped immediately. The intestinal discomfort went away after about a week. Now I avoid most wheat, but some things (like pasta and crackers) don't bother me. I can also occasionally eat bread without too much stomach upset. However, I cannot do that two days in a row. So if I have pizza on Monday I'm ok. But if I have pizza on Monday and pancakes on Tuesday, I'm fucked. So I think I have an allergy or a sensitivity of some sort, but it's not terrible. I do feel much better on a day to day basis.

>>6642067
> if you don't have an intolerance for massive tubs of lard then it's healthy to eat massive tubs of lard
your logic

>>6641515
Thank god lying to the public is illegal in my country. America sure is fucked.

>>6641515
The book sounds like shit, but it's a good idea to treat wheat products as occasional snack foods, unless you're poor enough to need the filler. Your diet will be much richer for substituting those calories with more nutritious foods.

>>6642196
Don't try and justify that insanity because you have IBS. Your inferior genes are irrelevant to normal people eating normal food like the human race has done for the past ten thousand years.

>>6642196
I believe that you don't have a gluten allergy but you almost certainly have IBS, which means that you can tollerate gluten and can eat glutinous rice, wheat free pasta, limited quantities of oats, and many other glutenous foods. It's somethin by else in the wheat that you (if IBS) are reacting to and it's called an oligosaccharide.
You should get this checked out by your doctor, and look up the 'fodmap' diet. It will tell what you should and shouldn't eat if you have IBS.

Also, I think it's hilarious that when somebody mentions wheat a lot of ignorant know-all's come out of the woodwork talking shit about gluten and how they 'think' that gluten allergies aren't real. It's funny because often the problem with wheat has nothing to do with it's gluten content.

>>6643088
>Comparing gluten, which is literally grain protein, to lard

Okay m8

>>6643182
Once again you reveal your lack of logic.

>>6641515

Bread is not bad for you.
Animal products and fat+sugar thats not plant based is bad for you.
Fitness Professionals like Australian Pro-Cyclist Durian Rider or Dr. Micheal Gregor or Dr. Neil Beranrd or Dr. McDoughal. Whole grains are good for you.

>>6641552
First sign that the diet is a load when many of its advocates are fat. Keotgenic and Adkins suffer the same thing. I've only seen Vegan health advocates/youtubers all in shape.

>>6641531
beat me to it but..,
Read the fucking sticky on /fit/
/fit/'s sticky is my bible

>>6643220
Refined sugar is plant based, cane sugar being a plant. It is terrible for you.

If calories in = calories out, you won't gain weight. Wheat won't magically give you a fat gut in of itself.

>>6643156
>>6643101
I do not have IBS. I only have digestive problems when I eat something like pizza, cake, pancakes or bread. I have not had any problems at all since I stopped eating those things.

>>6644197
Those things all most likely contain wheat-based flour. If you can eat other grains then you're most likely reacting to something in the wheat. Not necessarily the gluten content.

It's your health.

>>6644208
I can eat other wheat based food with no reaction (pasta, crackers, gravy). It's only "bready" textured food that upsets my stomach. That's why I'm pretty sure it's glutin and not wheat that I'm sensitive to.

>>6644218
pasta and crackers will both have gluten...
I think you're psychosomatic brudda

>>6644225
But not nearly as much. If I sat around eating spaghetti all day i would feel bad. But two pieces of pizza put me in a bad place. Like I said in my first post, i can eat SOME things SOMETIMES without discomfort.

The author is not far off the mark. Atkins got it right all those years ago: carbs are the easiest way to put on weight, either simple or complex. Avoiding much grain in the diet will probably result in a significant slowing of weight gained and if paired with exercise will likely result in weight loss.

>>6644267
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_advantage
>It is a claimed effect of low-carbohydrate diets and was popularised by the Atkins diet, but although several mechanisms exist to make it biologically plausible, it has yet to be definitively demonstrated as a significant factor in weight control. Some studies [3] that have specifically measured the changes in basal metabolic rate under isocaloric very high-fat and very high-carbohydrate diets have failed to find any statistically significant differences.

>>6644259
gluten sensitivity but not allergies are a thing.

But if you wanna keep fucking with your gut, that's your business.
I'd cut out all wheat in your situation

>>6641608
>there is literally nothing wrong with GMOs
Gene patents.

>>6642196
>muh anecdotal evidence
I also have personal anecdotal evidence with keto diet, which I've adopted as a permanent diet now, but I'm not running around telling people to stop eating carbs and how carbs are bad for you. Different diets work with different people, something that helped you might havr a neutral or even negative effect on someone else. So yeah it's something you should keep for yourself.

The book is a scam. Most of the guys claims have been disproven .
He got rich as fak though.

>>6644293
I said that I may have a sensitivity in my initial post.

>>6642196
>I have an allergy or a sensitivity of some sort

I do not eat wheat products on a regular basis. I will have a piece of pizza every few weeks or so, but that's about it. It's really too bad, I'm known among my friends and family for my baking skills. Now I just make biscuits and bread for other people.

>>6643189
You're a fucking idiot.

>>6644364
Go back to your first comment in the chain: >>6642067
>Not eating gluten when you don't have an intolerance does fuck all for your health.

Hint: Wheat is not 100% gluten.
Hint 2 (because it's obvious that you're this stupid): That means there are other things in wheat too.
Hint 3: Those other things aren't gluten.

Let me (and the world) know if you need any more help figuring out this challenging puzzle.

Why go for Glutenfri instead of Sourdough? Please tell me.

>>6641515
Well, look at it this way

Wild 'wheat' growing in the Ferticle crescent was what made people settle down and build permanent dwellings roughly 10,000 years ago.

A constant, reliable, energising type of food was enough to encourage people to cease the hunter gatherer existence.

So if its worked for 10K+ years, why in the last decade would it suddenly not?

Also FYI, 'Gluten free' often doesn't mean 'free of Gluten' it just means its below a certain level. A bit like Decaf.

>>6644197
>I only have digestive problems when I do exactly as the disease anon thinks I have
plz
fuck off

>>6641515
I'm literally allergic to gluten, and therefore avoid wheat products entirely. I'm still fat as fuck, because the alternative (rice) is really calorie-heavy.

>>6644521
Why rice instead of root vegetables?

>>6641714
OK so let's say we want to teach corn how to fly.
normally we would just take two corn plants and bread them until one gets wings and then we would bread ones wth wings until they flew.
BUT WITH GMO
we take the corn and then take a bat then take genes out of the bat and then put it into the corn. Then we take that and drop it in a vat of antibiotics to kill the non bat corn and then we make bat corn seeds and plant it and we have new crops.

How's GMO natural again? All you do is take random plants and genes and trow it in your corn soy and wheat.

>>6641608
Because Africans can afford the extra cost of GM seeds and the Glyophosphate the seeds require to grow means production in creases and wored hUnger derases. Every GM crop costs no less than 130 million USD and you suppose this money could be used in no other way besides making whole new crops to increase productivity

>>6644531
>we take the corn and then take a bat then take genes out of the bat and then put it into the corn

Only in a Sci-Fi book. That is not done at reality.

>>6644543

Glyphosate is not required for seeds to grow.

I haven't read the book but my two cents on the whole gluten thing.

A diet based too much on empty calories and refined wheat products is indeed harmful and too much gluten is dangerous.

Now should we just abandon Wheat? Should we abandon gluten?
HELL NO.
That's like saying we should abandon fats, or sugar.
A quantity of it is good for you, and it lets us develop amazing breads.
Just like a quantity of fat is healthy and some sugar too.
That "functional diet" focusing on health shit is bullshit and arrogance. We once thought Margarine was a good idea and now we think Canola is a good idea. I bet we'll find many things wrong with all those modern diets.

What we need is to get back to a more natural and organic diet. Grassroots pre-industrial peasant foods are the best and we should follow the logic of the ancients. Most of the great wines, great cheeses, great classic preparations are just peasant things.
How to cook tough meat from wild game, ways of storing cheeses and wines and eggs and vegetables and meats, ways of smuggling wine and surpassing the law, ways of using nature and yeasts and bacteria to create new amazing results and preserve food, how to use every single part of the animal from the bones to the fats to the organs, etc.

And all of that was made by peasants and tavern keepers and traders and hunters and the wives of steppe raiders and merchants.

Even the proportion between vegetables and carbohydrates and protein was adequate amongst traditional grassroots cuisines even though often the peasants were so overtaxed and explored that they couldn't afford fats and meats.

The fact is that when you're not bombarded by bullshit influences and pop culture, you tend to not think stuff like "BACON IS AWESOME YEAH!" or "YEAH DEEP FRIED BIG MAC!!" or "I AM A MAN I NEED A HUGE STEAK!". When you move around and do productive stuff, you tend to crave a food with some fat but not too much, some carbohydrates but not too much, etc..

>>6641515
calories in calories out you fat fuck

>>6644544
You miss the point. They don't take bat gene they take other plant gene. It's the same process though. They take plant A give it gene B and then won't fucking test it and won't fucking tell us what the they actually need it for.
>>6644549
It's true, but in America you get subsidies for buying Glyophosphate for your Glyophosphate ready and also subsidized seeds.

>>6644554
Not to mention, a good reason why people eat too much refined white bread is because of capitalism. I don't think i need to explain further than that.

>>6644554
>and too much gluten is dangerous.

Only if you have specific medical conditions like Coeliac disease.

>>6644520
You forgot the part where I initially thought my problems were attributed to pork and not gluten.

>>6644559
>You miss the point

Yes, because you used hyperbole. It's actually quite important to make that distinction. A lot of people are afraid of GMOs because they actually believe that scientists are putting radically different genes into plants, like your bat-wing example. They aren't doing that. They're making very small changes comparatively. I'm not saying I'm approving of GMOs, but it's inappropriate to spread misinformation or fear.

>>won't fucking test it
Of course they test it. Monsanto (et. al.) are lawsuit magnets to every environmental group in the world. You bet your ass they are going to test things before they get get sued into oblivion.

>>6644573
They are putting radically different genes even if they still are plant genes. Any foreign genes from other plants can behave wildly different based on other genes inside the plant. Even if it isn't the introduced genes issue there can still be genes that are reactivated like with the failed GM pea Australia was making. Doing anything besides normal plant pollinating and selective breading is wrongful against the natural balance.

And based on the tests that they have done they have not cleared any GM product for human consumption. Monsanto gets most of their patents passed off of scouts honor because they have so many lobiests and money tied up in protecting themselves. Monsanto gives not one fuck, sir.

Lots of idiots in this thread.

It's good to avoid grains as much as you can because are they stupidly calorie dense.

Is gluten poisoning you? Perhaps there are issues, but eating several thousand calories more per day is the worst part and the only truly harmful part of grains.

>>6644605
>calorie dense.
Are calories a bad thing nowadays or are you just lazy?

>>6644602
>They are putting radically different genes even if they still are plant genes

OK, but don't go telling gullible scrubs that there are bat genes in plants. You don't need to spread bullshit to make a valid point.

>>Doing anything besides normal plant pollinating and selective breading is wrongful against the natural balance.

Wrong according to what? This is no place for a moral discussion.
And of course sometimes GMOs don't work correctly, but then again neither does natural breeding. There are all sorts of growth as well as birth defects that affect plants and animals even with no GMO at all. Guess which screws up more often?

>>Monsanto gets most of their patents passed off of scouts honor because they have so many lobiests and money tied up in protecting themselves

Agreed. But that sounds like a government problem to me. The patent exclusivity is a real problem.

>>6644531
How is anything "unnatural"? It's not magic. Everything is natural, the idea that something is unnatural is as absurd as people who complain about "chemicals"

>>6644608
Too many calories are a bad thing, and eating nothing but bread to fill you up will get you to 6000 calories a day in no time.

People need to cut back on the grain in the US.

>>6644610
Gowth defects and inconsistencies is crops as well as disease control are the main draw to GM crops I will agree. However when thegovernment creates the idea that they can circumvent any of these issues with a magical crop then they are mistaken. When disease finally hits crops like corn and soy they most likely be magnitudes more efficient at destruction and creating famine simply because every crop is the same. By same I mean a clone of the original and patented cross bread. What gives them to be able to say without certainty they have perfected the cloning process and have made it fit for human consumption on a large industrial scale?

>>6644640
Magical is completely misplaced and I apologize, but I do have legitimate concern for the agroculture and the sustainability of this system

>>6644640
>What gives them to be able to say without certainty they have perfected the cloning process and have made it fit for human consumption on a large industrial scale?

They haven't prefected anything of course.

But that's no reason to stop trying. There is no such thing as a perfect system. There are certainly problems with GMOs, as there are problems with conventional farming. Just because problems exist is no reason to abandon anything. If we did that we'd never accomplish anything, ever.

http://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet

I started keto recently and it's been going well so far. Gluten isn't really the big issues as carbs are. Carbs are not just grains, they're also sugars and in starchy foods like potaters or any root vegetables. In truth however, carbs are not an enemy that everyone should avoid. The issue is that carbs are very dense in calories. For example 1 bowl of cooked rice = 101 calories, 1 cup of boiled potatoes = 136 calories, 100g of whole wheat bread = 247 calories. Now who out there eats just 1 bowl of rice or 1 slice of bread? The bread for a 6" sub at Subway is anywhere from 280 to 470 calories alone.

Unfortunately dietitians can't recommend a low carb diet because they're influenced by the wheat board who need people to keep buying flour and corn. Going on a low carb diet is more about avoiding gluten, it actually prevents you from eating food that's bad for you. Keto is also great because the food you eat is delicious and thus keeps you on the diet longer, doesn't make you crave things as much because you're still eating things you want to be eating and not something that you're forced to eat. But it also teaches you to watch what you're eating, reading labels is important, you end up cooking more and eating out less (which according to this is bad for you most of the time: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/11712905/Restaurant-meals-are-as-unhealthy-as-fast-food-survey-finds.html)), really focusing on making better choices in what you eat which eventually become a lifestyle even if you move to a different sort of diet for the rest of your life.

Calories In/Out is a simple way looking at it but there's much more science involved in weight loss. I know someone who is able to gain weight on just water due to hormonal imbalance and stress.

>>6644656
On principle though we would not try to have such a chemical run agroculture system. I would be elated to see a more fungus driven Era where we may at least preserve our topsoil. The problem with conventional farming is that it doesn't make people rely on a government to process it's food stock

>>6644554
>What we need is to get back to a more natural and organic diet.

No, fuck the fuck off.
The best diet is the one where we get a little of everything.
Fish oil, all the protein types, all the fat types, etc etc etc.
We don't need to give a shit what it is from.
So long we recognize that some of the 1800-2000 processes rottens food for some of the nutritional value.
I.E
1. Pasteurization has downsides for milk
2. Sour dough might be better for us than beer yeast
3. Hermetization & freezing of products do cost them some nutrition
4. Exessive amount of Soya has downsides, since it contains a lot of special nutrition

>>6644554

Your two cents is worth about two cents if it's all based on some fantasy you have in your head about "the good old days"

>>6644688
>I know someone who is able to gain weight on just water
That is quite literally impossible. There is no fuel entering the body if all you consume is water. You can just make energy out of nothing.

>>6641515
Just let your mother do her stupid diets she's going to give up on after 4-5 months. My mother does the same thing. Last time I talked to her she was on some "whole foods only" diet.

Just eat whatever you want and let her eat what she wants.

>>6644688

>The issue is that carbs are very dense in calories. For example 1 bowl of cooked rice = 101 calories, 1 cup of boiled potatoes = 136 calories, 100g of whole wheat bread = 247 calories

The fuck? That's nothing calorie-wise. Fats are the most calorie-dense macronutrient. 100g of butter is 717 calories.

>Unfortunately dietitians can't recommend a low carb diet because they're influenced by the wheat board who need people to keep buying flour and corn

Oh shut the fuck up with your wheat conspiracies. Health officials everywhere recommend a diet based on whole grains, beans/lentils, fruits, and vegetables because those foods are shown consistently to be good for you, protecting against various diseases, including obesity.

>Going on a low carb diet is more about avoiding gluten, it actually prevents you from eating food that's bad for you.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to poison your body with any terrible blueberries, oatmeal, black beans, or peas. Better stick to the healthy things, like red meat, cheese, butter, and eggs, right? Having functional arteries is just for suckers of the wheat industry, right?

>>6644770
>I've never heard of water retention

>>6644777
>Double dubs and trips

Nice.

>>6644777
>Fats are the most calorie-dense macronutrient

By weight, yes. But I think anon is talking about how easily those calories can be eaten. It's much easier to overeat on carbs than it is to overeat on fat. One of the reasons why the Atkins (and similar low-carb) diets work is because it's honestly difficult to over-consume calories if it's only fat and protein due to the fact that they make you feel full faster and for a longer time.

>>6644780
Well in that case, I'll do you one better. I know a guy who can gain weight just by wearing a backpack.

>>6644777
No one eats 100g of butter in one setting though, even if it's in something like sauces or pastries. Eating 300g of bread is super easy.

>>6644813 has it right, when you eat a high fat based diet you feel full very quickly. I actually have to eat more than I want to because I'm usually very full all day long eating only 1500 calories and I should be eating 18-1900 at the moment.

Vegetables are allowed on low carb diets. In fact, you're forced to eat the best kinds of vegetables, ones lowest in carbs and the ones that are healthiest like spinach, bok choy, broccoli. Fruits have a lot of fructose, however berries are totally allowed in limited portions. Blueberries + cream = pretty awesome dessert for someone who's trying to lose weight.

>>6644813

Considering that people who eat very high carb diets have traditionally known to be thin, I think it's just as fair to say that those calories aren't as easy to get in. By volume, you have to eat a lot of food. Try to get 2000 calories of barley and lentils in for example, especially without counting fiber calories. It's easy to eat a bunch of sugar and refined wheat just as it's easy to pour a bunch of oil and butter all over your food, but complex carbohydrates, like all health institutions recommend, are pretty hard to accidentally overeat.

It's also worth mentioning that many high fat diet promoters, including Atkins, are themselves fat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVxA6yipv4

If someone goes from the American bacon and sugar diet to just the bacon diet, they cut out a big calorie source and therefore limit their calories, and you see weight loss atleast initially. Low carb diets are notorious for not following through in the long-term though, and just as importantly, it doesn't really improve peoples' health. You may lose weight and then die of heart disease from the high fat, low fiber nature of the diet.

>>6644816
Because that's how weight gain works, right?

Gluten-free diets are only good for people actually unable to digest gluten.

For anyone else, it's ridiculous. Wheat doesn't make you fat, excessive simple carbohydrates do.

>>6644840
About as valid as water retention

>>6644823

>no one eats 100g of butter in one setting

You'd be surprised. Pic related, Jimmy Moore who runs the "livin' la vida low carb" podcast, eternally fat no matter how low carb he is.

>Vegetables are allowed on low carb diets. In fact, you're forced to eat the best kinds of vegetables, ones lowest in carbs

Do you believe that sweet potatoes are dangerous to your health then? Leafy greens are great, but avoiding things like sweet potatoes, squash, and peas because they contain carbohydrates doesn't make sense.

>fruits have a lot of fructose

Which is bad in its refined state, but, quoting the World Health Organization, "The WHO guideline does not refer to the sugars in fresh fruits and vegetables, and sugars naturally present in milk, because there is no reported evidence of adverse effects of consuming these sugars."

All you're doing by avoiding fruit and limiting berry consumption is setting yourself up for degenerative diseases.

>>6643182
Lard has much less saturated fat than butter. "OMG LARD THAT'S DISGUSTING" is a meme born out of the fact that the word 'lard' is gross sounding, not out of any particularly bad quality of lard.

>>6644823

By the way, eating your blueberries with cream may almost completely negate the benefits of eating the blueberries, due to the dairy blocking the absorption of the antioxidants

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19135520

>>6644847
Water retention is a valid medical problem that causes you to gain weight. You said it was not possible to gain weight from water, which is simply not true.

Look into the Ray Peat diet.

>no grains, but lots of fruit sugar
>lots of dairy, but no yogurt
>eat muscle meat, but also gelatin and broth (red meat preferred)
>avoid polyunsaturated fats like the plague
>don't get too much iron, drink coffee to block iron absorption
>carrots every day

>>6644859
I'm not saying that sweet taters are bad for you. All food is good in moderation except possibly refined sugars other than for the mental aspect of eating them. However our modern day diets create carb addictions which for some people can be as strong as drug addictions. I think low carb diets put you in a path of eating good for you food that also tastes good. Keto also makes your body utilise the fat on you to burn it instead of using up your lean mass. You literally piss out calories on keto.

As for the nutritional value of eating fruits... you can get the same nutrients from other sources while avoiding the added sugars.

>>6644882

You realize that omega 3s are polyunsaturated, right?

>>6643220
>another retarded fad dieter

>>6644889
According to Ray Peat, avoid those as well.

Besides, even mainstream publications are saying Omega 3s don't provide any real benefit.

>>6644876
Yeah, in the same way you gson weight from a backpack

>>6644883

>carb addictions which for some people can be as strong as drug addictions

Lol wut

Anything is addictive for the comfort they bring, but to say people can become 'addicted' to something required for life is much akin to claiming that we're addicted to oxygen. You're correct to say that people become accustomed to eating high carb foods, but to compare that to things like opioid addiction is shillery.

>Keto also makes your body utilise the fat on you to burn it instead of using up your lean mass.

Yes, it does do that - but that's not a ketogenic diet's intended purpose. It's intended to control glucose usage by the brain and help control seizures. The butchered ketogenic diet most assholes use is just rebranded Atkins - the real ketogenic diet is medicinal with some very severe side effects.

>You literally piss out calories on keto.

You can't be this stupid. You piss out excess glucose that your body isn't using, yes. Glucose =/= kilocalories.

>As for the nutritional value of eating fruits... you can get the same nutrients from other sources while avoiding the added sugars.

No, you can't. Fruits contain, on average, more antioxidant vitamins than any other type of food and there are types of antioxidants you cannot obtain from any other source. Considering that all fruits are actually ovaries, it's a bit unique.

>>6644859
>You'd be surprised. Pic related, Jimmy Moore who runs the "livin' la vida low carb" podcast, eternally fat no matter how low carb he is.

No idea who this guy is but he sounds like a moron if that's what he's eating. Any low carb diet has certain limits on what you're supposed to be eating. Certain low carb diets are just plain old stupid and don't have any support from a research/medical standpoint. It's no wonder the people on them don't lose weight. On the other hand, there are those low carb high fat diets that do work but take more effort to control thus making them "too difficult" for the typical person.

>>6644883

> I think low carb diets put you in a path of eating good for you food that also tastes good

That's where I disagree strongly. Low carb takes you away from many foods universally recognized to be good for you and usually turns to unhealthy foods to get the calories. Having spinach with your dinner is great, unless the dinner is a big steak fried in butter. The low carb message is misguided and is based a lot on the ambiguity of the phrase "carbs." Of course it's bad to drink soda. Of course donuts aren't a health food. That doesn't mean you shouldn't eat things like pinto beans, apples, barley, or sweet potatoes. In fact those are the kinds of foods you're not recommended to eat "in moderation" but as a prominent part of your diet.

If you're a sweet potato "addict," consider yourself lucky, because it's one of the healthiest foods we know of. Okinawa, Japan is the first thing that comes to mind when I think of sweet potato. Highest rate of centinarians in the world, diet made up of 69+% sweet potatoes, and 85% carbohydrate. If being "addicted to carbs" means living a long, healthy life, that sounds like a good deal

>As for the nutritional value of eating fruits... you can get the same nutrients from other sources while avoiding the added sugars.

It's not all about vitamins and minerals though. It's a lot easier to get vitamin C by incorporating more fruits into your diet, but that's not all you're after.

http://www.aicr.org/reduce-your-cancer-risk/diet/elements_phytochemicals.html

Eating a variety of plant foods gives you a wider range of beneficial antioxidants. Since there's never been any recorded negative of fruit consumption, why not enjoy tasty fruit and reap the health benefits?

>>6644882
Look into the retard diet.

>eat lots of saturated fat to clog your arteries and damage your brain
>eat less unsaturated fat and grain phytochemicals that protect against artery clogging and brain damage
>eat red meat with lots of iron to give you colorectal cancer
>eat less probiotics that produce compounds to increase colon cell DNA repair, intentionally block iron absorption so it can accumulate and damage your colon cells DNA even more

>>6644907
You're a moron of you really think that's true.

>>6644951

Water weight is not fat added to your body, therefore it is in the same category as wearing a backback.

>>6644951
No, faggot

>>6644958
Water weight is still weight. It still makes you weigh more.
You did not say, "you can't get far from water."
You said-
>>>6644770

>>6644688 #
>I know someone who is able to gain weight on just water
That is quite literally impossible.

You said it was impossible to gain weight from just drinking water.

>>6644973
Backpacks make you weigh more too

>>6644922
http://news.nationalpost.com/health/carbohydrate-rich-foods-trigger-addiction-response-in-brain-u-s-study

>The butchered ketogenic diet
Please explain to me the differences between the real keto diet and the butchered version. I agree with the rest of that statement, keto has been developed to help with certain medical conditions, not just seizures.

Ketosis does actually force you to piss out calories, it's not a significant amount but it contributes to weight loss. And for the fruit thing, I disagree based on what the diets of my ancestors consisted of. I come from a family in northern Europe where fruits were scarce. Eating a lot of fermented cabbage and other vegetables provided them with the needed nutrients. To be fucking honest with you, the fruits available to us in most stores are devoid of many of those nutrients you speak of due to being picked when still unripe and then gassed to look pretty on store shelves. Not everyone has access to fresh fruits from the garden.

>>6644928
>pinto beans, apples, barley, or sweet potatoes
The diet in the country I come from includes only apples from those 4 mentioned foods, and only when in season. Doesn't make everyone in the country unhealthy. As for the Okinawan, there were many studies done and there are other contributing factors to their longevity than just eating a lot of sweet potatoes.

Regarding the fruit consumption, read my comment to the other poster. On top of that if I may add, fruits these days have been genetically modified to be better tasting, aka have more sugar. Bananas and oranges are the #1 example, both have been completely altered from their original form and now taste overly sweet in many cases. Fructose directly from fruits may not be as bad as refined sugars but it is still sugar. And like I mentioned earlier, I don't think fruits and vegetables are pure evil but at the same time a diet that excludes them can still be healthy.

>>6644279
Not the guy you are replying to, but I feel like the biggest factor in weight loss due to carb-free dieting is that it's just plain harder to eat a shit-ton of calories if you cut out carbs.

I mean, it's pretty hard to overeat when you're restrictied to just veggies and meat.

>>6644985
>>6644813

That'll teach me to post before reading the whole thread

>>6641515

Wheat has been very heavily danced upon and apparently doesn't even resemble ancient grains as far as human digestion goes.

>>6644984

>The diet in the country I come from includes only apples from those 4 mentioned foods, and only when in season. Doesn't make everyone in the country unhealthy

Those were examples of healthy foods, not specific foods that every diet must include.

>As for the Okinawan, there were many studies done and there are other contributing factors to their longevity than just eating a lot of sweet potatoes.

Sure, they live stress-free lifestyles, take casual walks, and tend to personal gardens. You still have to acknowledge that their apparently drug-like addiction to sweet potatoes worked out well for them. Mainland Japanese, too, with their more rice-focused diet have also historically done well healthwise.

>Regarding the fruit consumption, read my comment to the other poster

It's a nice comment, but you'll have to actually substantiate it. I could say "vegetables these days aren't healthy anymore" just as well, but it doesn't mean anything without data. Unfortunately for you, virtually all the data in the world agrees with the idea that fruits, meaning modern fruits that we've cultivated, are good for you.

Here's another paper to go with the one you posted for that other guy too

http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2004/carbs

>when you stop eating carbohydrates, your brain stops regulating serotonin, a chemical that elevates mood and suppresses appetite. And only carbohydrate consumption naturally stimulates production of serotonin.
>"When you take away the carbohydrates, it's like taking away water from someone hiking in the desert," Wurtman said. "If fat is the only alternative for a no- or low-carb dieter to consume to satiate the cravings, it's like giving a beer to the parched hiker to relieve the thirst -- temporary relief, but ultimately not effective."

>>6645011
>http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2004/carbs
I don't know whether this researcher didn't take into effect that eating fat also makes you full or if there's more to this study than I can read here.

Since starting keto I have not experienced hunger even with consuming significantly less calories than before. To be honest with you, I felt hunger a lot more often when I ate rice for example. There was always a craving to eat more of it and the feeling of fullness was very difficult to reach until I was so stuffed that I would feel bloated and nearly sick. I believe what the article is describing is more of a low carb low fat diet which I have tried in the past. What I realized was that I can't ever feel full from eating just salad. I lasted a long time due to a strong will to lose weight but eventually gave up because I couldn't deal with being hungry any longer. So far on keto I feel full almost too often and almost want to skip meals but keep reading that I need to reach certain caloric intake goals or else my body will get used to eating low amounts of calories and slow down my metabolism.

As for the Okinawans and Japanese in general. Yes, there's no hiding from the fact that they're doing something right. It could be a number of things, but I also believe that their body composition is different from people in different regions as well. After all, although we're all the same species we do vary quite a lot. I don't want to stereotype or anything but I know a lot of Asians in general who eat a lot but don't become significantly overweight. I have not read studies or even articles on how well this diet works in a westernized setting. Would living the modern day rat-race life have an influence on this? Possibly...

>>6645054
>After all, although we're all the same species we do vary quite a lot.

We vary in many ways, but not much in regards to metabolic rate. The concept of some people having a "fast metabolism" vs a "slow metabolism" is mostly BS. Most human beings have a very very similar metabolic rate.

>>6645054

>To be honest with you, I felt hunger a lot more often when I ate rice for example.

The article does make the point that protein inhibits the seratonin production, so eating chicken + rice wouldn't be as satiating. From my end, it can be hard to get an excess amount of calories from healthy carb sources, so if I need more calories (I don't need to lose weight), I eat more fat from nuts and seeds. I'm heading off to work right now, and taking two meals with me; a container of oatmeal with a mix of berries, and a container with a mung bean/tomato curry with cauliflower. I can't imagine anyone getting fat on such filling, high-volume, fiber-rich, calorie sparse foods.

As for the asians, they end up like westerners when they move to western countries, and their diets in their own countries now have less rice and more fat and protein, and they've become more overweight and diabetic, so I don't think it's their genetics.

Talk to you later, bro

I've read almost half the book and to me it sounds like it talks about wheat like they used to talk about fat many years ago. So according to this, wheat is the boogieman to obesity.

>>6645366
>it talks about wheat like they used to talk about fat many years ago

Yep. It's the current fad.
80's was low fat.
90's what low cholesterol
now it's "gluten free".

>>6644984

>Please explain to me the differences between the real keto diet and the butchered version.

The real ketogenic diet forces the liver to convert organ fat into ketones, which flush to the brain and are used instead of glucose to power the brain. It's not 'low carb' - it's 'absolutely no carb' to limit glucose production as much as possible. People on ketogenic diets require excessive bloodwork and supplements to ensure the patient doesn't die from low blood sugar or increased cholesterol in the blood. Patients have to take numerous supplements to combat the fact that a true ketogenic diet lacks a large number of nutrients necessary for life. Ketogenic diets increase the chances for kidney stones massively, by the way.

It's not wholes tic or safe, in the least. It's a last-ditch effort to treat epithetic seizures (which is the only disease it was designed for, by the way). If you're on a real ketogenic diet, you need constant medical supervision.

The butchered ketogenic diet is a high-fat, high-protein, low-carb diet that is just Atkins.

>Ketosis does actually force you to piss out calories.

A kilo calorie is a unit of measurement, you imbecile. It's not an object. A calorie is a measurement of how much energy an object produces when it burns. It's measured by noting how long it takes a burning object to raise the temperature of a gram of water by a single degree.

>Not everyone has access to fresh fruits from the garden.

Did you ever hear of a Farmer's Market?

>>6645411
>it's 'absolutely no carb'
Where are you getting this information from? The original keto diet allows 16g of carbs a day. Most people who genuinely do keto and not some pseudo-bullshit-keto-atkins-piece-of-shit stay under 20g of carbs a day. Supposedly it's possible to go over that amount to 30 or 40 or even 50g and still stay in ketosis. But like I said most people who are very into this stay under 20g.

Regarding pissing out calories. When in ketosis, your body changes fat to ketones. Excess ketones are then disposed off through urine amongst other things. So technically you piss out calories.

>Did you ever hear of a Farmer's Market?
Ah yes, that local banana farmer here in Canada sure is amazing...

GLUTEN IS EEEEEEEEEEVIIILLLL

>>6641515
>there isn't a single grain that is the same as how it was years ago
nah, there is, older varieties can be purchased.

you're eating dwarf wheat as bred in the 60's. more chromosomes. it's higher in gluten and the structure of the gluten is slightly different. quite possible there could be something bothersome about this new variety.

>>6641714
nah, you're a retard. genetic modification has an exact definition. traditional breeding is not under the umbrella of qualifying techniques.

>>6645969
just because youre a subhuman with inferior genes and cant digest it doesnt mean its evil

if hitler had won the war people like you wouldnt even exist

>>6641608
>GMO
>long ago
love how dumbasses just yak it up without reading for even a second. GMOs are 20 years old and haven't done anything to feed people. they exist to patent organisms and increase herbicide sales via a nice long con.

Just imagine I wrote a book called meat belly and in every chapter I mention protein causing kidney damage.

>>6645411
>Patients have to take numerous supplements to combat the fact that a true ketogenic diet lacks
The true Keto diet involved to eat all the parts of the animals one hunted, alongside the sparse things you can harvest in the good seasons.
For instance, various vitamins from Whale skin.

That said, I sorta agree. When you do a modern variant, you will live in some city, and live off the limited selection of supermarkeds. They won't sell whale skin for eating. Or stuff like that.
Supplements is where its at.

>>6644296
>Gene patents.

>watching Orphan Black
>reveals that Big Bad Organization has patented genes
>laugh it off because there's no way that could happen in real life
>short time after the episode first aired I hear something on the news about gene patents not only happening, but being deemed legal

>mfw

>>6641515
Okay, I have an actual gluten allergy. I tested positive for gluten AB. I can still eat bread and shit. Just not much without getting horrible diarrhea.

This gluten scare is fucking ridiculous. I can't order gluten free food without being thought of some new age pseudomedicine hippy.

>>6644904
This.

Oh look, another everyone is stupid except me thread

Hidden

My sister is doing paleo and has lost weight and feels good. Can't argue with results.

>>6648902
At least it's easy for you to get, now.

>>6649501
>Eating more protein, more vegetables and less bread, salt and fat is good for you

You don't say.

>>6649501
What kind of caveman do you have to be to fall for le latest fad diet?

>>6649588
> person has cancer
> scientists discover a cure for cancer
> person receives treatment for cancer
> herp derp what kind of caveman falls for the latest fad...etc

>>6649501
Let's see them tittays

>>6641608
I watched that episode of Bullshit! too.

>>6643226
>Keotgenic and Adkins
Adkins, sure, but Keto? Really? Worked fine for me and most everyone I know that did it. Kept the weight off for years, never rebounded.

>>6646800
>GMOs are 20 years old
Try going further, bud. We're talking Green Revolution-onwards here, not twenty years ago.

>>6644560
>a good reason why people eat too much refined white bread is because of capitalism.

>>6644905
>Omega 3s don't provide any real benefit.
This is a very recent discovery and is under heavy suspicion largely since the medical community has sang the Omega-3 praises for YEARS. Which is why the new results aren't particularly alarming.

>>6644882
Ray Peat makes the most sense out of all the meme diets, you have to do a shitload of reading to fully understand it though

>>6644905
So a dietary supplements giving 3-4 spesific minerals/vitamins in large amounts, that is otherwise lacking in the normal diet, in a age where people don't eat that much fish?
Its a given that Omega 3 has gains, but not if you eat stuff that grants you the same stuff.

Maybe if you spent some more time with your mom she wouldn't be falling vulnerable to all these snake-oil salesman.

>>6641515
wheat is not "bad" but most americans eat a fuckton and could chuck out the bun in their burger and lose a bit of weight. its ~200 calories that most americans are too fat to eat

>>6641729
nigga less than .05% of the population is gluten intolerant the merchant just want to make money selling gluten free shit

>>6651638
no yogurt?

FUck that shit. I eat plain yogurt nearly every day

>>6641515
I haven't read the book, and I haven't done much study on the subject myself, so I can only speak from my own experience. But, anyway, I quit eating most breads and pastas a couple months ago (not because I think I'm gluten intolerant or anything, but because I want to maintain my weight over the summer during swimming season). And just today, I ate some baked goods (doughnut, buns, etc) because I was staying at a friends house for the holiday weekend, and I'm a good houseguest and eat what's served to me instead of being a picky bitch. So, at about 6 pm today I start getting a fucking terrible stomach ache and bloated up like a balloon (still am bloated). Everything else I did and ate was just like I do all the time besides the baked goods, so I'm thinking I had a digestive reaction to them. (partially, I'd wager, because I hadn't eaten them in so long, not just because they're "bad" for me.) Anyway, it's something I need to consider.

>>6653066
This is a common reaction for people who have quit carbs for a while. But it's not just that, a lot of vegetarians experience something similar when they eat meat again the first few times. Body just isn't used to it. Some people get that from trying new food even if they eat carbs and meat.