/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>6162823

your description sounds like a normal chef to me.

"Executive chef" would be a person who once was a chef, but now their job is business management rather than cooking. They would never work in the kitchen (even expediting) unless it was a rare occurrence. Their job would be overseeing multiple restaurants, handling business matters like financing, loans, legal issues, TV/Book deals, advertising, expanding the chain of restaurants to a new area, etc. Think of them like a "business executive"

>>6162849
Thanks. I like that definition.
What's your background?

FYI, I'm pretty much doing what I described minus expediting and schmoozing. There's a guy running the hot and cold sides, a prep kitchen manager, a catering manager, and there's a grill/fryer kitchen that we use in the summer. I'm their boss, but they do their own things. I mean, I'm not aggressively overbearing as a manager -I let them be creative, but if I see something being done inefficiently or wastefully or just plain wrong then I step in.

C'mon /ck/.
Lay it down.

I agree with the OP until the part about "rarely steps on the line to cook". Executive chefs at my jobs have always worked on the line, and have done a little bit of overseeing of new people who are being trained although that's primarily the job of the sous chef.

>>6162823

I've known plenty of "executive chefs" from shit like bar burger places. They are technically, buy you wouldn't compare them to say, Thomas Keller, before he started doing other restaurants too.

>>6163126
What size were the places? How many kitchens/managers were the executive chef in charge of?

>>6163137

And also, I expect few professional cooks here on /ck/. Idk why,

>>6163142
We're here. I mean, I've been here for 7 years. I know there's others. Sometimes one comes in with a huge ego. They don't last long. I post OC some times, but just from home cooked stuff.

>>6163168

Nifty. There's just so much innane housewife stuff that I wasn't sure. Can't leave though.

>>6163142

We're here, we are absolutely a minority but there are enough people on 4chan for there to be at least a handful of actual cooks.

I may as well ask this here

So I'm sort of thinking about becoming a chef. This is almost certainly a dumb idea, but how dumb is it exactly? What's the career like, fresh out of culinary school? What are the prestigious schools? How expensive is it?

>>6163224

Skip school. Learn while getting paid. You'll come out of it with experience, and you'll be respected more. Probably get good at it too.

But don't. Shit hours, shit pay, no social life, bad work environment.

>>6163224
OP
Depends on where you live. Making roughly 30K. Would be making 40-50K in a major city.
You'll probably make half that out of school, and if you're not a SERIOUS go-getter, if this isn't your PASSION, then you may be better off getting into HVAC or being an electrician. Pay is better.
CIA is the go-to university, but a lot of people just do tech school. Cordon Blue as well. No idea of the cost anymore. Was ~25K in the early 90s for a 2 year from a minor school.
Cooking schools seem to me to be like the "Ummm, I don't know what I want to do so I'm just going to enlist in the military" alternative.

>>6163280

>Cooking schools seem to me to be like the "Ummm, I don't know what I want to do so I'm just going to enlist in the military" alternative.

yeah that sounds about right

thanks

>>6163224
Not really a dumb idea, but you have to be passionate. You can't be "sort of" thinking about becoming a chef. That is a lifelong goal. Btw, cooks are not chefs.

You have to really love food and cooking.

Now having said that, go show up at your local fancy restaurant and tell them that you want to "stage" (pronounced stahhj, French for apprentice). You'll work for free for a couple of weeks, and if they like you and they're hiring, they'll hire you.

Have a blast

Trigger Warning: Blog post
So, here's the deal:
I have to talk to my General Manager tomorrow. She told me on Saturday that she was considering laying me off because she didn't feel like I was performing as an executive chef. When we (me and her) created this position the duties were pretty vague. My take was that I'm supposed to be doing pretty much what I already described, and now it seems like her take is... different. I'm not going to get into it, too complicated, but I think she wanted Superman to come in and wrest control, but I don't get any of Superman's abilities (I have to confer with waitstaff before adding or deleting items from the menu for example). I've grown to be okay with this set-up. It's obnoxious at times, but there's a lot of pluses to this place that I'm not going to go into. It's a commune of sorts. We take care of each other.
So I need to redefine what my position is and explain how fucked the place would be without me, even though I just took 9 days off without warning because I felt like sleeping. Because depression. But I ran that shit from home with a phone. I guess I've painted myself into a corner by delegating duties to other people. My phone is a perpetual reminder of my usefulness, though. If I wasn't there, there would be panicking and people running in circles for 6 months. I've been there for 9 years.

:( Comfort me

>>6163168
>>6163201
Gentlemen.

>>6162823
>>6162849
Also, the exec mentors and teaches his staff. I'm the exec sous for a pretty large operation that ties in 6mil catering with around 22mil regular operations annually. My job is pretty much what you describe with the addition of a shitload of spreadsheets and some HR stuff (hiring, promotions, disciplinary actions).

My boss focuses on long term planning and putting his staff in a position to make him look good. He's not the most skilled guy in the kitchen anymore, but he's the most experienced. He'll go to conferences and bring back ideas, will sometimes bring one of the staff with him as reward for excellent performance. He's been pretty generous about teaching me most of what his job is in case he gets hit by a bus or has a heart attack.

TLDR: Chef leads and we support.

>>6163388
If you can not be in a kitchen for 9 days straight you're not needed, sorry.

Maybe if you csn document the amount of work(# of phone calls, orders made/reconciled, problems solved, and have a document showing you put real hours in during your time off, you have a sliver of hope...
When.the exec chef goes on vacation the resturant closes IME. I can't fathom any job at the executive level where you can just fuck off for more than a week.

Okay, thanks guys. These opinions will help me with the conversation. We'll see how it goes. Worst case scenario is a severance package and unemployment.

>>6164850
a good cook is never "unemployed" .. he just take a "break" ...

in 30 years of cooking was never "unemployed" more then 3 month and that just because i came out of a 4 years contract without hollydays .. and during my break the phone rings every day for a new job...

>>6163140

Ok I'm that guy. They were/are all fairly large restaurants in a very large city. The tasting menu at my current restaurant is $98, and the food cost at the others was similar. That is not to say that price necessarily means quality, but these were all highly regarded restaurants.

>>6164104

my nigga

>>6164119

>If you can not be in a kitchen for 9 days straight you're not needed, sorry.

truth

that doesn't mean that you're going to consistently be working for 9 days straight, but you need to be prepared to. Some of those might include double shifts.

If you can't stand potentially giving up some of your social life then you shouldn't go into the industry, you'll just be miserable.

>tfw usually I don't mind but last weekend was invited to go paintballing but had to work a double

>>6165185

Oh I read the thing about not being in a kitchen wrong, before I read OPs post. Thought it said "can't not".. etc

Anyway I had horrible depression for about a decade but could still function....barely. I guess at some points taking 9 days off wouldn't necessarily been that far off the realm of where I was. I'm not going to try to strongly push meds because I know the conspiracy theorists and "hurr durr supporting the medical jew" people will show up, but that was what ultimately helped me when it began strongly impacting my career. I didn't take an SSRI because fuck getting fat and having to taper off something, but different shit works for everyone. Just figured I'd throw that out there because I felt bad when I read that you were that depressed.

Good luck bro

>tfw browsing /ck/ instead of getting fired
(I'm on break)

Thanks, and I had to read that 9 day thing twice before it clicked. And it's true; I agree with it wholeheartedly. But to be honest 4 of those days were my weekends and I did actually go in for 2 of the days.
I know I can find employment, but I might as well take a little time off if unemployment pay is decent.
I started taking Cymbalta and was seeing a therapist in September. I'm done with the therapist, but still taking the pills. Just had a little rough spot.
Still haven't had the talk yet...

>>6165666

Good luck, Satan

I was in the business for almost 10 years, and am a certified red seal chef, but I left after the shit pay was just too shitty to have to put up with the hours and stress. Split shifts and double shifts everywhere. Days off were totally random. No holidays off ever because they were busy as fuck with tons of catering events and banquets in the dining hall well as regular kitchen service. Could never organize anything with anybody because my days off were so random, and I worked all weekends all the time. Most other chefs and cooks were drunks and/or coke heads so it was difficult to make friends with any of them.

Now Im in a trade where I work anywhere form 8-12 hours a day, get my 2 day weekends 90% of the time unless we have something thats in a rush to get done, I get all the main holidays off, get vacation time, and I get paid good money to work hard. Unlink restaurant work where you work your balls off, stressed out of your mind, in the sweltering heat, for pennys.

The only time you will ever make good money in a restaurant is if you are the owner of the restaurant.

>>6163337

>Now having said that, go show up at your local fancy restaurant and tell them that you want to "stage" (pronounced stahhj, French for apprentice). You'll work for free for a couple of weeks, and if they like you and they're hiring, they'll hire you.

Its hilarious how outdated and stupid the cooking industry is with this shit.

>work for a free for a couple of weeks

I laugh whenever cooks and chefs try to sound and act tough by talking about how shitty their hours and pay are. No other profession is that way. Chefs and cooks have been left behind in the dust by every other industry, stuck in their old ways like its still the 60's.

"Internship" in general is an old as fuck outdated way to fool poor fucks into working for free. Dont fall for it.

But thanks to the cooking network, restaraunts the world over will have tidal waves of retards lining up down the block to be tough guys working for a pitance 14 hours a day for a month straight to be like the hardcore chefs on the teevee!

>>6165787
What trade did you get into, and how old are you?

>>6165826

Im 33 and now Im a Heavy Duty Mechanic.

I love to cook, and I did it for almost a decade, got all kinds of certification, and worked in some really nice places, but it sucks ass as a profession.

Only time I would ever go back to it is if I opened my own place so I can do things my way and actually make money for working so hard and having good ideas, or opened a catering business or something.

>>6165838
Hell, I ain't too old to change professions. I'm working as a programmer and I fucking hate it.
I've wanted to get into a trade, but taking a pay cut to be an apprentice has always deterred me.

Being stuck behind a desk for 10 hours a day is torture. Maybe a pay cut isn't that bad after all.

>>6165846

mfw i'm studying programming

>>6165849
The pay is decent -- I live in a smaller town and make close to 6 figures.
BUT it really sucks to be stuck in an office all day. It's taken the fun out of computers for me.

>>6165846

Honestly, if its a decent trade, apprenticeship isnt all that bad when you are "older" in your late 20's or early to mid thirties.

The only apprentices that get treated like shit are the really young ones that are like 18-25, and the really dumb ones.

When people are young apprentices, they get low pay and get shit on for being young, but older people get to bypass most of that simply for being older and wiser in general. Also usually get better pay than the younger apprentices too.

But hell, look at it this way. Spend anywhere from 3-5 years working on a good apprenticeship and you are pretty much set for life.......unless you have some kind of breakdown where you realize you dont like the profession halfway through your apprenticeship.

And if its something you really like, they branch off into tons of different specialized trades that focus on certain things. Like an electrician might be sick of working on houses, so he can move on over to working on shit like trains or even planes if he gets certified for it. Tons of opportunities out there man.

Dont think you have to be stuck doing one thing forever. When I took my heavy duty course before I started my apprenticeship we had people in the class from 19, up to a couple guys that were almost 40. Its never too late.

>>6165877
You're a good man.

>>6165825
Honestly, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

While a young chef staging is classical, it doesn't mean there's no logic to it. You aren't just going to walk into a Michelin-starred restaurant and say "I wanna be a line cook, hire me!" Either you A) have a résumé and show them that or B) have a culinary degree (lol) and show them that or C) tell them that you are there to learn and want to stage. Staging is a way for young chefs to learn technique at a high level and low cost.

And, as I said before, it is a good way to get a foot in the door for a job that a young chef wouldn't have gotten because the restaurant is too high-level.

That's why it's good advice for the anon considering cooking to just do a stage rather than pay exorbitant amounts of money for school or settling for work in some shitty restaurant.

Chefs are tough, they have to be. You wouldn't know that. The ones who aren't tough are the ones you see whining. You talk about it like it's the same as some white-collar industry. It's not. It's funny you mention tv, because that's probably the only exposure to restaurant kitchens you've had.

>>6165890

>Chefs are tough, they have to be. You wouldn't know that. The ones who aren't tough are the ones you see whining. You talk about it like it's the same as some white-collar industry. It's not. It's funny you mention tv, because that's probably the only exposure to restaurant kitchens you've had.

Im actually the guy that posted about being a chef for a decade in some really nice places, and talking about joining other trades.

But feel free to tell me I have no idea what Im talking about and how working for free like a slave is a good thing!

>>6165896
I guess that makes you a whiner then.

Somebody's gotta cook, restaurants are essential to society. You don't get to throw the entire profession under the bus just because you weren't cut out for it.

>>6165907
>In a community college culinary school
>everyone there doesn't really give a fuck about cooking
>completed a 370 internship to graduate last summer
>was treated like shit from day 1, had multiple 'meetings' with my sous because he was a jackass and would always tell me one thing, and expect another.
>about 350 hours in, the kitchen staff started to like me
>mfw they were assholes this whole time because the sous was.

How many places actually run like this?

Fuck that fucking restaurant.
Makes me just want to transfer after spring semester into business management or open a food truck.

>>6165890

You're full of shit. A Waffle House fry cook makes the same money a fucking saucier makes in New York City.

You are full of shit. You are an asshole and a liar.

Chefs are tough?

>So is everyone else you dumb shit

>>6165980

All of them run like that.

It's prissy pants and chasing money and bullshit and bullshit.

>>6165980
OP here
Not any that I've worked at. I only worked at one place that was kitchen brigade "yes, chef" type. It sucked. The menu was written like you'd expect from fine dining. Fucking IQF shrimp for the shrimp cocktail. Another hack here, another hack there... I preferred working at smaller places that put energy and quality ingredients into the menu.
You just need to find the right one. Don't give up quite yet. However, if you're on someone else's bill, get that business degree.
The talk got transferred to tomorrow if anyone is interested.

>>6165666
I'm on cymbalta right now. Double the dose to 60mg if they haven't already, and take it before sleep. Lovely medicine, has helped me much more than wellbutrin to have emotions again, although the latter was fantastic for getting shit done.