/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>6155159
A weeaboo placebophile
Why am I not surprised

>>6155165
how can the performance of a blade be considered placebo? is that even possible?

>>6155172
>forded over a golirrior times!

You don't need that shit. I buy $5 IKEA knives and their sharp as fuck.

You only think they're good because grorious nippon is automatically good

>>6155183
>the "you don't need good tools to make food" meme

you also don't need good food. what's you're point, dumbass?

>>6155192
You don't need good knives to make good food, but you'll be sharpening them a lot more often. Try to at least get a crap knife with good ergonomics if you're going to go with crap knives and sharpen them constantly though.

I think you mean it's the grado sr60/80

>>6155216
i use cheap ass knives all the time, but a good knife makes a significant difference for handling delicate items. and ergonomics are fine here, you just hold it like any other knife. what is your problem?

>>6155192
it's true tho, I made this with a dull as fuck 4 inch serrated knife. I actually ordered a tojiro dp santoku last week tho, should be here on tuesday. got tired of prep taking so long from having a shit knife

>>6155234
haven't you heard? nice things don't exist.
the only knife you'll ever need in your entire life is a second-hand mora beltknife.

>>6155159
>not using ATH-M50s
>comparing knives to audio equipment

>>6155251
>ATH-M50

how big is your hentai collection? is it encrypted?

>>6155251
>memephones
>not using pic related

>>6155234
I own and use some nice kitchen knives, but honestly I really don't see how the quality of the knife matters much as long as the ergonomics and blade shape/size are correct. As long as you keep it sharp the cutting performance will be similar enough that it may as well be identical. It takes more maintenance to keep it sharp enough, and that frequent sharpening shortens the life of the blade, but that's about it.

>>6155159
>>6155251
>>6155259
>>6155264
>talking about headphones on a cooking image board

>>6155159
I disagree with the Wusthof being beats. did you try something from their cheap line (the gourmet series? Either way the best affordable knife is Henckel's 10' Chef. I paid 120 for this model (http://www.zwillingonline.com/31021260.html)) in stores and it's incredible. Didn't have to sharpen it for a year (although I did hone it after every few uses). It cuts through everything, it's got a nice heft to it, and it's got a good grip. The steel wasn't too hard to sharpen and it's not too soft to hold an edge. My mother used it a few times and she ended up buying one for her kitchen. Highly recommend

>>6155315
you can get a vg-10 core tojiro dp for under 60 bucks

>>6155336
I've never tried anything from that company, but I'm wary of plated steel. My uncle ran a few restaurants and was a chef, I trust his word on knives. He always spent a little more to get German steel because he said they lasted the longest, and had the best trade-off between holding an edge, not being a bitch to sharpen, and not being too brittle. In my opinion an affordable knife means the cheapest knife you can buy that will last your whole life and maintain it's quality (with reasonable care) througout. I've personally used his 50 year old Wusthof and it cuts everything like butter. Maybe your knife does the same, I can't say, I've never used it. I prefer to stick to what I know.

>>6155345
>judging wusthof on a 50 year old knife

bruh they simply don't make them like that any more.

>>6155347
I've used the newer Wushof's too and they seemed fine to me. Admittedly it was a friend's set and I don't own them so I can't speak to their long term quality. That being said I use a Henckel's anyway because it felt better in my hand. I think the whole discussion of the best cheap knife isn't that helpful anyway. When people ask me what sort of a knife they should buy this is what I tell them.
Go to your kitchen, find your favourite knife, and take it a store that sells nice knifes (in my area, this is bed bath and beyond, which carries $400+ knives for some reason). Expect to pay between $100-$200. Try out the knife you're going to buy. see how it feels in your hand compared to your favourite knife. You do not need to buy a whole set. You should not buy the super high end or the super low end line of whatever company you chose. Don't get a Santoku, It's not a Japanese chef's knife, it's only meant to chop. Finally, ask the salesperson to teach you how to hone your knife, and buy a honing kit it you don't already have one. When the time comes, pay somebody to sharpen your knife, it's like fifteen bucks, don't mess up your expensive knife trying to learn.

That's how I feel on the subject, and everyone I talk to ends up happy with their knives.

>>6155259
that cat is devastated

>>6155159
kawaii desu

>>6155183
Keep tipping.

For those interested in reality, there are perfectly good reasons to like Japanese knives . I prefer French but that's another story. Japan uses better steel than German made knives (Yes, historically, Japan was shit with steel and katanas were and are shit--but they've caught up to the West since the Feudal age) and they tend to be thinner; additionally they tend to have great ergonomics. There's no placebo effect with knives; there are actually real performance differences in how a knife is designed and how well its steel will take and hold an edge, as well as how its other properties help it cut.

The average person doesn't need a Ferrari, but that doesn't meant that a Ferrari doesn't perform better than a Civic.

>>6155159
Nip steel is absolute crap.
>mora master race

>>6155760
If you mean steel out of iron ore from the Japanese islands, you're right. If you mean steel from elsewhere processed by the Japanese, then you need to shave that neckbeard.

>>6155375
>ask an employee of Bed Bath and Beyond which knife to buy
literally discarded anything you said

>>6155773
You are so wrong my weaboo friend.

>>6155773
Go in peace Ken Sama.

I'm interested in becoming a professional knife sharpener.

I was wondering if anyone could recommend any university courses in knife sharpening.
If anyone here sharpens knives, what's the industry like?
How long did it take you to become a master sharpener?
Are there some must read text books I should get before going to uni?

>>6155784
>>6155795
Nope, sorry. I'm correct on this one. The best Japanese knives will often use steel from other places, like the Swedish steel also used in the aforementioned Mora knives. But they process it extremely well.

You can hoot and holler and stamp your feet all you want but this is not a subjective matter. VG-10 is excellent, Aogami is excellent, etc.

Take off the trilby for a moment and I'll explain to you on an elementary level how this works. First of all there is no one perfect steel because different kinds are right for different purposes. What makes a good kitchen knife doesn't necessarily make a good hunting knife. In cutlery what you're looking for is how well it takes an edge, how well it holds an edge, and how easily it sharpens. Crappy steel like the 440A in Cutco is poor in all of these areas. The German steel in a Victorinox Fibrox sharpens very easily, takes an decent edge, and doesn't hold it especially well. A Konosuke Fujiyama sharpens easily, gets obnoxiously sharp, and holds that edge very well. Do I need to take this down to kindergarten level or do you understand yet?

>>6155813
mechanical engineering

>>6155834
>mechanical engineering
>knife sharpening
lel what?

>>6155813
computer science

>>6155813
art history

>>6155235
>dinner shit.png
Titled appropriately. I'm glad to know you enjoy eating shit for dinner.

>>6155813
Philosophy

What are some solid all around knives in the 30-50 dollar range? Western or Jap knives, doesn't matter.

>>6155873
At that price your best bet is a Victorinox or an Ikea Slitbar.

>>6155813
Computer Aided Design

>>6155315
I also have a Henckel's Pro S chef knife. I have a variety of other knives, but I am amazed at how well it holds a good edge considering everyone on 4chan would have you believe that it will dull after cooking one meal.

I hone it regularly, and sharpen it every 1-2 years.

>>6155235

And it looks like you couldn't cut things consistently with it, but its cool. I don't like santoku at all but I do have a Tojiro gyuto that I use for work. Very decent. My Misono is too nice to have Guatemalans kicking it around.

>>6155873
the OPs knife if $57 on amazon

>>6155159
I wasn't even going to post in this thread, but seeing as /ck/ fucking loves to reply to the worst thread topics, it will probably be up for 2 weeks, anyway, so I might as well. Your comparisons are terrible. Have you ever cut through a chicken joint or bone with a Tojiro gyuto and a Wusthof chef knife? They're designed to be used differently and maintained differently.

>>6156390
Joints and small bones are no problem, although if you're hacking through bones as a matter of habit and you're not a chinaman I have to wonder what you're doing. No one likes razor sharp bone fragments in his food.

>>6156390
not OP but obviously you choose a knife based on what you're going to be using it for. me, I know i'll be mostly using it to cut chicken and pork, veggies and potatoes. so i went with a tojiro dp, because of the hard steel core that will hold its edge longer (plus it was 50 bucks vs some other more expensive knives). i take care of my stuff so i know chipping the blade wont be an issue, but obviously if i did a lot of prep work with bones or frozen foods, i would get a thicker blade, made of tougher, less hard steel.

>>6156480
That was a rhetorical question. It's a night and day difference between the knives in that task, one which the wusthof works much better for. Trimming joints off bones is a fairly regular thing in many presentations. Pic related. That isn't to say there aren't things a Tojiro gyuto won't do better, but Japanese knives are typically made to separate joints, not cut them off, and for that, you would be much happier with a honesuki. Things that many people might favor a Tojiro gyuto more for a utilitarian knife might be like it's ability to retain a fine edge better. The problem with that is most of the people asking about cheap knives don't know enough about sharpening to obtain a fine edge in the first place, let alone maintain it, and many won't even try to learn.

>>6156524

I have a honesuki, I was answering your question about the gyuto.

Frankly I still prefer a paring knife for chickens, although for cracking through bones (which I pretty much never do), I will give the edge to the honesuki.

>>6156545
Just stop posting.
A honesuki is not meant to crack through bones. As was said, it is meant for separating joints.

>>6156545
>>6156524

Also if you're whacking through bones that big, you really should be using a cleaver in the first place. I never really figured out the point of this thing although I guess if you're deboning chickens for 8 hours a day maybe it would be useful? I've probably used it less than 20 times since I got it.

>>6156554

Go fuck yourself, idiot who uses chef knives to hack through thick bones. Choke on a chicken bone while you're at it.

>>6156558
You're not going through the hardest part of the bone. You're going through the spongy tip. Not the cartilage in the joint, which is all that a honesuki should be asked to handle (though that is bad technique). A heavy cleaver is meant for going through much larger joints or chopping down alongside bone, and is absolute overkill for something like a Frenched breast. You do not "whack" through it. You position the heel of the blade and firmly press down, so you do not risk hitting the more solid bone, causing splintering.

>>6156561
Sometimes I wonder why I even post here. Many of you deserve nothing but Joey threads.

>>6156583
People get really bitter about knife debates. It'd be nice if everyone here would spend a few days lurking on Kitchen Knife Forums so they don't end up shitposting these threads.

>>6156577

I have a cleaver if I need to do stuff like that, which is basically never, so I haven't used it in years.

>>6156583

Bye, don't let the door hit you on your fat ass on the way out.

>>6156594

The threads are usually pretty civil until some faggot like >>6156583 decides he's god's gift to cooking and everyone should do exactly as he says, then it degenerates into shitposting about fast food and joey.

>>6156602
It's basic fucking technique.
You don't have to be god's gift to cooking to know that shit, but you do have to be a completely ignorant cunt to argue against it, and insult while you're at it.

>>6156608

You're the one who implied that a common, standard brand of knife is incapable of jointing a chicken, which is completely fucking wrong, and topped it off with insults.

You should maybe have not posted in this thread. In the future, keep this in mind.

>>6156615
Quote where those implications were made. Not even close.

Was it because I said it's a night and day difference between the knives? It IS a night and day difference. Does that mean it can't be done? Of course not, but if you've ever tried it, you know what I'm talking about. The blade and edge shape and type of steel make it much easier with western knives than japanese knives, and if you put a very fine edge on your gyuto, you can kiss that goodbye. It is different altogether from separating joints. In separating joints, you cut through the connective tissues, then pop the joints out, or sever the cartilage.
Then people who have no clue, instead of asking about it, decide to argue and complete assholes about it. So keep that in mind.

Richmond Knives = Grado?

>>6156633

But it's not a "night and day difference" except to the extent that you can barely get the wusthof sharp enough to do that, and hold the edge long enough, because it's meant to blast its way through everything through brute force.

The way you make a 53 hrc wusthof slice through tissue like that is by putting microserrations on it with a grooved steel. Which of course promptly collapse when they have to do any actual hard work, but that's why you're constantly going back to the steel, to bring back that aggressive bite that you erroneously think of as sharpness.

http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/129/Chefs-Knives-Rated

check this out OP

>>6156641
You can get a Wusthof just as sharp as any gyuto. The difference is in how well it will hold that sharpness. You do not have to use brute force with a Wusthof, but you will have to take it to the stones more frequently to hold a nice edge. If you're prepping for hours on end, chances are the Wusthof will not hold a very fine edge for the whole period unless you really baby it. That is why most cooks carry multiple knives. Different blades for different tasks and possible pinch hitters. Micro serrations have nothing to do with cutting through spongy bone and if you're relying on micro serrations for sharpness, you're doing it wrong. Steels and ceramic or glass rods can help to extend the life of an edge decently, but if you're looking to maintain it for weeks on end on the job with one, you will mess up your edge to the point where you will have to spend a lot more time on the stones to fix it, and you will be grinding the blade down more than you would have to otherwise.

>>6155159
Shigefusa would be the Fostex TH-900 of knives.
But what would i know...

>>6157322
By the look of them not having been used much, not a lot. That is unless you're selling them, then maybe, but shilling sucks in any case.

>>6157336
I've used them 5 days a week for 4 months now.
If you think these look unused, it only goes to show you have no idea how to look after your own knives.

>>6157354
Pft, they haven't been used at all until those octagon handle edges smooth out a little.

>>6155873
just bought a mac, good value imo , much better then the victorinoxes ived used but ive only used crap knives so im easily pleased.
>inb4pleb

anyone have recommendations for 3000+ grit whetstones on a budget? all the ones i can find under 50 are a bit narrow or short

>>6157383
That may be the case if you hold your knife like a racquet or a hammer.
The way I hold it, I honestly don't see the edges on my handles smoothing out any time soon - even with heavy use.

>>6157397
I don't think they make a 3k, but King 4k can be found for around $40, and for $50 pretty easily. You can find combi stones from them, usually 800 or 1k with 4k for under $30. I haven't used any other stones in the 2-4k grit range for under $50, though. Sorry. I know Bester makes a 2k that can easily be found for under $50, but I've only used their stones under 1k grit, and they're kind of chippy. I like the couple of King stones I've used, if that matters.

>>6157420
>any time soon
well there's the crux of it
Just teasing.
The knife I pictured has had 5 years of intense use. How do you like the ZDP so far? What sort of maintenance have you put them through?

>>6157427
>How do you like the ZDP so far? What sort of maintenance have you put them through?
Oh man its brilliant. I loved it so much that I bought a second one in the 270mm version.

I touch them up on Shapton glass 16000 grit every couple of days, plus a 0.5 micron strop every day to give it that 'fresh off the stones' feel.

I broke the tip off the 240mm one and fixed it from the spine. 66 - 67 HRC is not overly hard to look after (scuse the pun), but it will chip if you drop it tip first into the metal sink.

What is your 5 year old knife?

>>6157424
thanks for the reply anon. was just looking at those on korin. will probably buy

muh cow knife

I got a Tojiro DP for christmas. Should I get some waterstones and try to learn to free sharpen, or buy something like pic related instead?

>>6156641

Wüsthofs typically have around 58HRC. I can bring mine to shaving sharpness with some cheap stone and a balsa strop with buffing compound smeared on it. The edge does deteriorate a bit after you have worked with it for a while but it can be restored by a smooth polishing steel in a few seconds. Not nearly the hassle that breaking out the stones in a professinal kitchen would be.

>>6157594
freehand is the way to go. devices like the one in the picture will invariably yield poor results, remove a lot of steel and ruin the profile of your knife.

>>6155873
I have the knife OP posted. It's just above $50, but I really like it. I am not an expert on knives though, I will say it's far better than the cheap shit I've been picking up yearly at the grocery store for a while though. I also feel like this is a knife I could probably learn to actually sharpen with at some point too (might head down to goodwill and pick up some cheap crap to get the basic idea first though).

>>6155159
Typical audiophool looking for, and finding, performance improvements that don't actually exist nor would they ever matter if they did.

>>6158119
Yeah, it's fine for a professional music producer to use Beats in the studio, just like it's perfectly fine for a professional chef at a Michelin-starred restaurant to use a knife with incredibly low edge retention. It's all placebo.

>>6158119
>performance improvements that don't actually exist nor would they ever matter if they did.
nice turn of phrase

>>6158119
>it's not real and even if it is real it's not REALLY real real and even if it is, I like the shittier version which is actually the same unless it's scientifically proven to be shittier in which case, you can't tell the difference

Amazing what kinds of gymnastics the poors will go through. Should be as simple as "can't afford it, not relevant to me" but instead, all this rationalization.

>>6158119
>>6158146
Audiophiles and knife enthusiasts are rather similar to each other, in so far as they both take products with a real and measurable quality difference between low and high end and demand that the performance be increased well beyond what would ever be necessary in professional use and at a level that is almost certainly unnoticeable in every day use compared with more reasonably priced professional level options.

It's also similar in that there are people who pretend that there's no difference at all beyond the cheap walmart option and professional options for both audio equipment and knives.

>>6158146
Edge retention does not get massively superior past VG-10. VG-10 knives can cut like a laser. If you want cutting performance beyond what a Tojiro gyuto can give you, then you want specialized tools for whatever it is you're doing. People buy expensive knives either because they like the aesthetics or because they don't know any better.

The best headphones still have FR errors on the range of +/-5dB, and that's without going into the HF canal resonances as a which are impossible to engineer away. Pretty much no headphones are suitable for use as a reference; they're just used for live monitoring. State of the art sound reproduction has been the domain of speakers forever. Audiophiles buy source equipment that's not only overpriced, but often incredibly shitty. Recent listener studies have shown that headphones have been misguided in their approach to frequency response, so today's entire lineup of headphones will be made obsolete in the coming years.

>>6155159
>akg k271 mkii
>not akg k240 mkii

Shiggy diggy.

>>6155813
You would have to get an apprenticeship with a local professional.
And no, you won't find any university courses on knife sharpening because it isn't academic.

>>6158174
This is a reasonable parallel. There's a huge difference between professional equipment and luxury goods. Few chefs are using luxury knives. They use professional knives because those are crucial tools for them.

I'm a professional in the music industry, and most of my crucial listening is over a set of Mackie HR824 powered monitors. Why? They're accurate and they're $600 each. I could easily buy better sounding speakers. But I don't need better sound. I need accurate sound. While I enjoy listening to music on high end speakers powered by tube amplifiers I don't need that for work.

I'm sure chefs are the same about knives. They need knives that will hold an edge and perform well in a stressful environment. They don't need any bling factor. It's their job, and they just need good enough tools to do it well.

>>6159063

...and regarding the music industry, you also have to take into account what the listener has. It does you no good to create a perfect master that sounds perfect on your Sennheiser Orpheus when the listener is likely going to be playing it back in a car, or a cell phone or mp3 player. Mass-market music is mastered to sound good on the generic speakers that the average joe has. I know two recording engineers who have (among other things) a couple sets of cheap-ass computer speakers as well as the ubiquitous bass-heavy modern headphones (beatz I'm looking at you) because what's the fucking point if your music can't sound good on those?

>>6159102
Mastering is its own ball of wax. The mastering engineer I use most of the time double checks all of his work in a Honda Fit at 65mph.

There's no parallel to that in a kitchen. Imagine a guy who had nothing to do with cooking the food, but it was his job to put the final seasoning on everything, to assure that every dish coming out of the kitchen had the same level of flavor. That would be a mastering engineer.

>>6155159
do not ever talk shit about wüsthof again, you ignorant fuck

>>6158434
edge retention isn't everything, either. Multiple knives, different ones for different tasks. I mean, yes, most cooks have their utilitarian knife that they use for most things, but unless they're working at some place that doesn't have demanding prep at all, they will need multiple knives or do their job poorly. Unless you know people who use multiple headphones for mastering albums, it's not the same thing at all.

>>6159723
Eh. In a pro kitchen you really only need your chef's knife and your paring knife in most circumstances.

>>6159815
Depends on the kind of chef knife and what sort of tasks you typically have. Do you butch everything with your chef's and paring? If so, I'm sorry.

>>6159820
Not the Anon you're responding to, but I get everything done with pic related.

>>6159825
again, depends on the knife and what sort of tasks
If you have a chef who is particular about the way they want things done, and it isn't a cuisine that is centered around that style of knife, that isn't gonna fly.
It's really cool watching those guys who are really good with them do their garnish cuts.

>>6159845
>If you have a chef who is particular about the way they want things done, and it isn't a cuisine that is centered around that style of knife, that isn't gonna fly.
Correct. These days I'm just cooking at home, but I don't do much French, and do plenty of Chinese.
>It's really cool watching those guys who are really good with them do their garnish cuts.
It's amazing how many delicate things a little technique allows you to pull off with such a rough seeming tool.

Shigefusa is pretty neat.

>>6159932
see:
>>6157322
nice stuff anon

>>6159845
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV_FAeJrSSw
I wish I could use a cleaver this good

>>6159861
And they do it with speed, too. It can be mesmerizing.

>It's amazing how many delicate things a little technique allows you to pull off with such a rough seeming tool.
Yes. It's mainly slicing and chopping here, but I still think it's awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0k-cgnWWqs

>>6160042
>1:28
That's fucking cool

>>6159932
Can you even find these without a ridiculous mark up?

>>6161345

I'm not familiar with that maker, but there are plenty of deputy services in Japan that will buy things for you and ship them overseas for a modest fee. Just contact one of those, tell them what you want, and they'll get a price for you. I've used services like that to buy Japanese woodworking tools and it cost FAR less money than shopping with the normal import tool websites.

>>6160042
That was great. Thanks.

autism: the thread

>>6161345
You'd have to order from one of Shigefusa's dealers in Japan and get onto a waiting list.

You might luck out and find a dealer that already has one in stock from someone who didn't pick up their order, otherwise the waiting list is 1 to 2 years.

are tojiros (the dp line) double bevel or single edge blades?

>>6162536

Double, although the honesuki is something like 95/5. Also something something Joey and fast food, you don't deserve my wonderful and profound wisdom :^)

>>6162545
i just got one and it looked like it was double edged but the blade was so ridiculously thin compared to other knives i've used that i just wanted to make sure.

>>6162558

Single edged knives are pretty much impossible to miss once you've seen one. The back side is slightly concave and the shinogi line is way up towards the middle of the front side of the blade, except debas where it's maybe 1/3 of the way up (which is still pretty high up)

Basically if you're asking in the first place, you're not looking at one.

Call me a pleb but I use a 10" Victorinox

>>6162545
You don't have any wisdom that someone couldn't find out with 3 seconds on google.

.

I enjoy my Shun classic knives.

>>6163988
How long did it take you to earn your cutlery licence?

>>6162575
I'll call you a practical, value-minded person

>>6165674

There's a license for cutlery? Is that similar to a certificate for proficiency?

>>6155159
Wheres my sennheiser knives?

>>6165784
Veiled, just the way you like it

>>6155876
Haven't used the Slitbar, but the Gynnsam was sharp as all fuck, and it was 17$
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10134952/
Thin blade.

>>6155159
duuuuuuuuuuuuuuude. That fucking knife, I don't know jack shit about knives but I work at a japanese restaurant and they brought in a new knife and it's that exact same fucking one. I rarely browse /ck/, is this knife often discussed on about?
>cutting frozen carrets is like slicing warm butter
>making sushi is a fucking breeze

>>6155159
Alright, then whats the STAX SR-009 of knives?

>>6165811
Damn, that looks sick compared to the slitbar's wannabe santoku look. It's got a really nice bolster too. Gonna pick that up tomorrow, thanks anon.

>>6165811
I own the biggest version of the Slitbar; it's a pretty good knife all things considered. Definitely doesn't hold an edge excessively well, but I do like the profile of the blade and it has a nice feel in the hand. The Slitbar is actually shaped somewhat more akin to a gyuto than a western chef's knife

>>6165839
>is this knife often discussed on about?

It's pretty well known as a really good knife for the price point.

>>6155756
I use a JCK Gekko tsuchime damascus santoku and a tsuchime damascus nakiri as my 'fancy' knives and a plain old Mundial 10" chef's knife as my go-to for dumb chopping.

I got the Gekkos after years of Mundial, Wusthof and some obscure Japanese forged brand with bakelite handles.

The only way I could describe the Gekkos to my (non-chef) friend was that they were sharp 'all the way up the blade'. Where western knives had a definite edge of sharp, the Japanese knives just seened to cut beter, and the tsuchime finish helped food fall off the blade during slicing.

Every professional chef should own a tsuchime damascus gyuto or santoku, they are an absolute pleasure to use.

>>6155827
This man speaks truth.

Have worked meat processing, Wusthof Trident took ages to razor sharpen but held their edge for ages, Victorinox were for people who wanted to hone daily and replace every 3 years, and Felix Solingen was for masochists.

Captcha, amsuingly, is 'incel'.

>>6157354

>Logos brutally stamped into the soft-plastic stage steel

Nice

>>6166753
>soft-plastic stage steel
are you making shit up now?
you should take some time to learn how knives are made before creating your own terminology.

>>6165811
Actually looks bretty good.

>>6166849
But that's a real term you dummy

>>6166849

Someone that doesn't know the difference between elastic and plastic deformation detected.

Go take a materials science class sometime.

>>6166738
>they were sharp 'all the way up the blade'

Just say "their geometry is much thinner behind the edge than that ofGerman knives and because of that they don't wedge in hard foodstuff". Tha would be the correct terminology.

/autism

>>6166849
What I love about knife threads is how the dumbest people are the most self righteous, superior, and dismissive

>>6160042
The show is called A Bite of China and it's available on Youtube, if you guys are into actual authentic Chinese food start learning from there.

>>6160042
>Dat two headed duck dish.

Classic China.

got this bad boy earlier this weak. cuts like a pro, and makes prep a breeze (especially since the only other knife i had was my roommate's shitty 4 inch serrated knife, pic related)

As long as we're comparing knives to headphones, where the head end is overpriced bullshit that only spergs care about ($1200 senns, etc.) and the low end is shit that falls apart in your hand (skullcandy, wal-mart brand, etc.), what would be a good bang for your buck workhorse chef's knife, comparable to say Koss PortaPros?

>>6167856
a victorinox >>6162575 costs like 30 bucks or a tojiro dp >>6167852 costs like 50-60

>>6167852
Christ, I think I'd have a seizure if I had to do any serious amount of prep with a knife like that serrated one. People on home cooking shows seem to use tiny knives all the time for some reason, and it looks like such a pain in the ass.

>>6167856
>good bang for your buck workhorse chef's knife

Any of the commercial kitchen brands: Dexter-Russel, Forschner, Victorinox, etc.

>>6167861
cutting thin strips of chicken for stir fry/fajitas is fucking hell. there was so much more wasted shit using that shit knife, now i barely have any waste, just some fat/ligaments.

>>6167864

You know that for Fajitas you're supposed to grill the meat whole, then slice it across the grain AFTER it's cooked, right?

>>6167852
Hey, I recommended that to you.
I hope you're not the chit who started the thread, though, even if you are, I'm glad you like it. It should serve you well.

>>6167875
fuck that i'm not about that authentic shit. i can just cook all the meat and veggies together in the pan and it cooks way faster.

>>6167881
started what thread this one? i didn't, just seconding tojiro for a rec for solid knives

>>6167886

Fajitas in a pan? How the fuck are you supposed to get that smoky grilled taste? Pleb central.

>>6167859
going to put in a vote for mac. got mine for 60. iirc, the steel is marginally harder than similar tojiro dp's

>>6167875
Does it make that much difference with chicken though?

>>6167896
seasoning. plus i live in a small apt right next to campus and dont have a grill

>>6167901
It's easier to get a good sear on a whole piece without overcooking it than it is on a lot of little pieces.

>>6167901

Well, it's a giant pain in the ass to flip individual strips of meat on a grill.

>>6167914
I suppose so. I've usually been able to get a relatively good sear and smokiness by just cranking a pan and throwing the chicken pieces in dry, but I've never actually had an authentic fajita, so I have no frame of reference to make mine taste disappointing.

>>6167892
Yeah, I meant this thread.
Do you think you'll get a combination stone or anything like that?

>>6167938
i've got a few sharpening stones from my dad from when i was younger, and my dad has a bunch too, not sure what grit level or whatever but they should be plenty good enough (his pocket knives would cut bent/folded magazine paper like butter and those were like 2-3 times thicker blades)

>>6167929
I was just commenting on cooking chicken in general. It's just easier to get a well seared outside and juicy interior with a larger piece. Same goes for any piece of meat.

>>6167962
Oh right, yeah.

>>6167961
very nice
Yeah, grit level doesn't have much significance unless you want easy markers to know what to look for new intermediary stones or something like that. So long as you have a few for progression to make it easier, and you know how they sharpen, you're set. My grandad taught me, and I used hand me downs from him until they were unusable and had to be replaced.

>>6167050
>>6167031
>>6167259
Ok i'll bite, when does the "soft-plastic stage" of the steel start and when does it end?

I have no issue with the use of the word 'plastic' as a property descriptor, but to call a stage of the knife making process around it?
The point in the forging process where the metal is at its most plastic is while it is glowing red hot. So was he was implying that the knife had it's logo put in at that stage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54R1377VM70

>>6168250

I think he was saying that because the logo was stamped onto the blade, the blade had to be fairly soft in order for the stamping to work. stamping or embossing a logo (or whatever) into a piece of steel is clearly a process involving plastic deformation.

as for what the heck "soft plastic" means I have no idea. Plastic vs. elastic deformation is a thing. But "soft plastic" ? Maybe he meant plastic in general and was mentioning the stamping was done prior to the steel being hardened?

>>6168276
Yeah he's calling it "soft-plastic" stage because he looked at the picture and thought the stamp sunk some of the metal around it in with it.

What's actually happened is they stamped the metal in the same way its done 8:30 mins into this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqwxkyaSws8

Then they've polished the blade on a soft buffing wheel, giving the logo a rounded out appearance. The buffing wheel had the same effect on the softer nickle parts of the pattern which abraded faster then the harder parts of the steel.

But yea, i guess it can be stamping into soft-plastic if you really want it to be.

Btw i like the logo rounded out like that, without it it starts to look really scratchy on the surface of the knife, pic related.

>>6168313
>pic related.

I greatly prefer the appearance of your pic. I find the buffed look to be "cheap" for lack of a better word.

Also, the pic you posted was cut with a tool resembling a chisel one straight line at a time, not stamped at once as in your video.

Are you shitheads fucking kidding me
The vast majority of you will NOT need any of these knives because you won't be handling ingredients and cooking process that require them
Just get a $5 chinese cleaver from the asian grocery store and a $20 plastic handled victorinox kitchen knife
Plus do you faks even know how to use a grindstone

>>6168326
its got both, the ZDP and smaller markings are stamped, but i agree with you that the bigger characters were chiseled in.

>I find the buffed look to be "cheap" for lack of a better word.
Fair enough, each to their own.

>>6168333
>everyone is stupid like me
You're doing it again

>>6168343
I am 100% certain that every retard in this thread comparing kitchen knives to headphones don't even know how to use a grindstone.

A ferrari in peak hour traffic goes at 5 miles per hour just like all the other cars in peak hour traffic. If all you listen to is pop song MP3s and no amp to drive the headphones with, they will all sound tinny and whiny. Same fucking shit with knives.

I don't even know why the fuck you guys are going apeshit over clearly western chef knives you like to think is Japanese.

>>6168333
Speaking of grindstones, what's the best day to day way to sharpen your knife without going full sperg with wet sanding? I imagine the little two type fine/course sharpeners you can get at the dollar store aren't very good for the edge in general.

>>6168378
I don't really care where it's from, as long as it's comfortable to hold, has good balance, and keeps its edge longer than a week during regular use.

>>6168392
It really depends on your knife.
If you've got a western style knife like a Henckels or whatever, then just use a honing steel or a ceramic rod before use.

If you have a Japanese or Chinese knife with a thin grind and more brittle steel, you'll want to either strop it on wood backed leather with a bit of fine stropping compound, or give it a few passes on a high grit stone.

>>6168378
The only one going apeshit here is you
Many people have discussed their stone preferences

Don't worry no one will know you're a weeaboo, anon-kun. Your secret is safe with us ^_^

>>6160042

I hope that this has been brought up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs5WiddD7i0

Hey my friends, I got pic related (Böker Brava) for my birthday, is it a good brand? Is X50CrMoV15 just German standart steel for knifes or softer/harder?

>>6169145
It's much softer than the high carbon steels used in asian style knives, but is a common german steel for western knives.

It's 0.5% carbon, 14.5% chromium and a bit of molybdenum/vanadium.

I have a set of watanabes. Not bad and they are left handed.

>>6169145
The steel composition itself does not mean it is softer, but they tend to harden blades with that composition less. If you were to compare it to some MAC knives, for instance, it could be quite close in hardness rating, but it is probably slightly softer. Looks like a very nice knife.

>>6169360
Is that your actual set or a stock photo?

>>6170664
http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/standard/l6knife.htm

I use this every day.

>>6167900
Macs are 58-60 HRC, Tojiro DP is 60-62 IIRC.

>>6155159
Mora you fucking weeb.
> captcha related: pedoo

>>6172548
>cooking with a camping knife

silly neckbeard, why would you do that?

>>6172555
Mora don't make kitchen knives anymore?
Pleb.
>widen your knowledge

>>6172567

Oh you mean the €150 novelty knife with the same flimsy oval handle as the disposable camping knives?

Yeah, no. I give it a 1/10 for effort.

>still

it came out like six months ago, are you three years old?

>>6172555
http://www.moraofsweden.se/products/food
Confirmed for ignorant cunt.
Mora produce excellent proffesional cooks knives.

>>6172555
What the shit is this. is this tripe with a half eaten bay leaf? why would you do this

>>6172555
Prick. Scandinavian steel rocks.

>>6172573
>paying that much for a glorified dexter

nice one

>>6172578

It's even better when the Japanese turn it into a shape people actually want to use

Enjoy your piece of nice steel with a piece of recycled water bottle caps melted onto the tang haphazardly

>>6172580
I'd consider that to be cheap.
Are you on welfare or something? Maybe life isn't working out as you wished?
Be successful or stay pleb.
>protip: you're a pleb

>>6172575
That is clearly pate wrapped in caul fat and the bayleaf is half covered by a flap of fat. Pleb.

>>6172592
>I'd consider that to be cheap.

Do you just buy random garbage because it happens to be cheap? Where do you fit all of it? In the barn?

I don't like filling my life with ugly, awful things. Sorry about your horrible knives.

>>6172586
Nip steel is such high quality.........
Why don't they export their Iron Ore ?

>>6172605

We were talking about Swedish steel. Are you upset because the Japanese make better knives out of your precious sandvik than the disposable camping knife company?

>>6172605
Japanese iron ore has always been crap. The ground does not have enough iron, so they have had to learn techniques to improve the ore and this is the infinite folding. Europe has always had very rich ore, so folding is not necessary to get the same result.

>>6172659
>implying Japanese shipbuilders, bicycle manufacturers, and structural steel makers are pounding out folded steel in the tatara

Yeah uhhh, this thing called globalization happened, "Japanese steel" is no more likely to be mined in Japan than a Nazi sympathizer is likely to be a German

>>6155159
Cheap good knife?
Victorinox, gg.

Vintage sabs

>>6176245

Unngh my dick is hard. I should post my 1923 Henckls

>>6176245


ITT

>you are now aware that the famous Japanese gyuto knife was copied from French chef's knives a short time before the 1900s

fact. if you covet a gyuto, you actually want a proper old school French chef's knife like these

>>6176572
Yeah, nah.
Old sabatiers aren't hardened to the same degree as gyutos and have different geometry. The only similarity they share with gyutos are the basic blade shape.

>>6176736

I'm not making it up due to the picture. It's an historical fact.

We're talking about a culture that was too autistic to sharpen both sides of a knife for 2000 years here. They had to get the idea from somewhere else.

Also, traditional Japanese clothing? It's all square and simple because the Japanese never figured out how to tailor clothing. They literally never learned how to sew better than a child.

>>6176806
>I have no idea what I'm talking about so here are some random totally unrelated factoids I picked up somewhere, probably an anime

Calm down.

>>6176813

sushi is just rice and fish

tonkatsu was ripped off from schnitzel

sake isn't that good

katanas aren't that great

Japanese cars are shit

anime is actually just children's cartoons

Iron Chef was a lie

>>6176572
Point being? Even if the gyutos are patterned after old French chef's knives, they're the only knives on the market today that have that particular shape. It's not weebery just because western makers have switched almost exclusively to the German profile.

>>6155827

>Do I need to take this down to kindergarten level or do you understand yet?

It would help if you knew what you were talking about first.

>In cutlery what you're looking for is how well it takes an edge, how well it holds an edge, and how easily it sharpens.

Sure.

>Crappy steel like the 440A in Cutco is poor in all of these areas. The German steel in a Victorinox Fibrox sharpens very easily, takes an decent edge, and doesn't hold it especially well.

Nah. You're right about the Victorinox but 440A has the same performance, if not slightly more potential than the 425M Victorinox use.

Cutco also claim 58hrc, which seems odd to me given crucibles spec 440A at 57rc post quench. Even if it 56-57rc it's likely a bit of an improvement over the 420/425M they use in victorinox/shun/global/henckels/wusthof.

i hardly ever bring out my chef knife. only when cutting through a rutabaga or butchering a whole chicken. i love my $25 rapalla fillet knives, the ones with the blond wooden handles and tan leather sheaths. also you gotta have a smooth steel. the steels that come in knife blocks have ridges for a reason. they want to eat away at your edge and never make it as sharp as new so you get frustrated and replace the whole damn set. 98% of the time your edge is just rolled over. a quality smooth shaft steel will realign your edge and make it just as sharp (or sharper) than the day you bought it.

you don't have to spend a lot of money to get a good knife.

>>6176966
Japan is mostly shit, but "German" knives are entirely shit. Most are blanks that are "Manufactured in Solingen", then ruined in China by cheap fuckawful heat treating, and rapid polishing that overheats the blade further ruining the heat treatment.

I'd rather buy a knockoff that was made well then a sellout that was made poorly.

>>6176849
This sums up my entire feelings about Japan.

>>6155159

What's a good cutting board to get /ck/

>>6179072
A thick end grain one.

Just saw this on sale for $30 Canada Bucks.

Undoubtedly the best deal I have seen on a 10" chef knife. This has the same quality steel as Henckel's/Wusthof knives that are $100+.

http://www.cabelas.ca/product/29369/zwilling-ja-henckels-kolorid-10-chefs-knife