/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Who thinks that?

Aren't carbs the new boogeyman?

We call those people doctors and scientists. The question is, why do you disagree with them?

>>5710655
nope, Gluten is apparently.

>>5710659
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DevcNPfZlrZs&has_verified=1

>>5710701

Okay, and why did you form such a strong opinion after watching one propaganda video by a stand-up comedian rather than doing more research on both sides of the argument and listening to people like this guy who's actually cured heart disease in patients by switching them to a very low fat, plant-based diet with cholesterol lowering drugs as needed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYTf0z_zVs0

>>5710680
the gluten must flow

>>5710701
WHAT A LOADA BALONEY

>cholesterol is bad! do everything to avoid it!
>brain made of cholesterol
>hormone production: cholesterol
>cell membranes: cholesterol

Guys, can anyone help me figure out why Parkinson's disease and Alzheimers are plaguing the population? I just can't figure it out for the life of me!

>>5710859

The question is how much cholesterol is actually required and how much is too much? Your body needs body fat as well, are you going to argue that morbidly obese people are really healthy?

>>5710909
Fat aint gonna make you fat though, it's eating carbs that makes your body store the fat. Cut down on carbs, eat lots of fat. Be healthier than you've ever been.

ITT: a bunch of people who think they know what they're talking about, and nobody who actually does

>>5710930

Fat is readily stored as body fat. Carbohydrate is very rarely turned into body fat. Any low fat, high carbohydrate society you can think of is full of thin people. Hell, even the most prominent "eat fat and lose weight" book sellers are themselves overweight. Robert Atkins, Robert Lustig, Sally Fallon, Loren Cordain, Jimmy Moore, William Davis, etc. Clearly fat can make you fat.

Speaking of cholesterol again, fat people are known to have higher cholesterol and losing weight actually drops your cholesterol as well. Why would you not advocate being obese if cholesterol you believe hypercholesterolemia is a good thing?

>>5710940
casuistry: the post

>>5710909
I'm a vegan myself and I get enough fat because as >>5710859 pointed out, it's fucking important. I use avocado oil and EVOO. Sometimes even ghee (oops!) but I don't care, I make sure I get adquate amounts of it (around 20% of my diet is fat). You want to find a diet that makes you healthy and disease bulletproof? Well, that's a plant based diet WITH good fat.

To deny that fat/cholesterol isn't important and depleting the body of it is just another extreme like those carnists we both hate.

>>5710940
But where is your decade long case study that shows a plant based diet doesn't cause XY and Z? Sure, I agree it lowers risk of heart disease and maybe even cancers (inclusion of plants does this, so a diet rich in veggies and animal protein might show the same) but can you with a straight face tell me that such a diet does NOT increase risk of any other disease?

Simply curing one type of disease does not mean it's a diet that cures ALL diseases. Well?

>>5710945

>To deny that fat/cholesterol isn't important

Nobody's denying that fat and cholesterol aren't important, I'm just pointing out that the idea of not having enough of these things is a ridiculous concern. There's no possible diet you can go on that'll leave you with inadequate blood cholesterol, and even the most carb-heavy foods are still around 10% fat. You don't need to drink oil to get some amount of fat in your diet and you don't need to eat bacon to make sure your cholesterol doesn't get too low. They're irrational fears that lead to dangerous diets.

>>5710955

>Simply curing one type of disease does not mean it's a diet that cures ALL diseases.

But it has been shown to be effective in treating and preventing a large host of our most common diseases and doesn't seem to lead to any other diseases in the process, so I don't think there's really anything to argue here. I also think you too easily brush off the fact that our country's number 1 cause of death has been cured.

>>5710940
Let me counter with some basics, my friend:
https://www.smahcp.co.uk/professional-know-how/nutrition-for-babies/macro-nutrients-in-breast-milk/information-1318.aspx?catid=26

>Fat is also the vehicle for the transfer of the fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K and other substances such as prostaglandins.

>Breast milk also supplies other essential fats: linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid,
docosahexaenoic acid and arachidonic acid, which are vital constituents of brain and neural tissues

Shit son, I wish I could just feed my baby carrots and potatoes. I wonder how that'd turn out.. oh wait, mother nature figured it out before us and made sure our offspring gets enough fat. Because guess what? FAT IS GOOD FOR YOU. YOU NEED IT AS MUCH AS YOU NEED CARBS AND PROTEIN (to a lesser extent than what people eat nowadays).

Stop demonizing certain food categories or groups, all food is good. Quality is important and preparation (You wouldn't heat EVOO to 350F+ would you now? You wouldn't eat a moldy squishy potato now would you (potatoes are poisonous fyi)?).

>>5710958
just curious what does a day (breakfast, lunch and dinner) look like for you? how do you get your 80/10/10?

>>5710972
I personally don't give a shit, bro? Humans can go fuck themselves for all I care.

I'm not at risk of heart disease, I have 8% BF and I'm not experiencing health issues. Why the fuck should I go on a diet that might increase my risk for alzheimer's or parkinson's? I have yet to see a study that shows a plant based diet is beneficial or superior to others for HEALTHY human beings. Don't give me a study about people tested that had shitty cholesterol and were obese. That doesn't apply to me, I care about myself and my own health. There is no evidence you can show me that'll change this - be my guest though, I'm all open to change if reasonable.

>>5710973

Why is a baby's diet relevant? Of course I advocate breast feeding newborns, but this doesn't say anything about the diet of any other stage of life. Babies are also born with LDL cholesterol levels around 30mg/dl, which is insanely low relative to adults, but still functional.

>>5710984
tinyurl com lfgqeug

Give it a read. You were a baby once, it's maybe important to understand why the macronutritional profile of breast milk is the way it is.

>>5710943
you really like that word don't you? (don't worry, I like it too).

>>5710977

I change things up every so often, but the main staples of my diet are oats, barley, lentils, black beans, sweet potatoes, and homemade whole wheat bread, with a lot of fruit (especially oranges) and a few kinds of vegetables (mainly red cabbage, kale, beet greens, and brussel sprouts unless something else goes on sale) that I eat with a flax seed/balsamic vinegar dressing. When I have them around, I also eat a small palmful of walnuts each day, so my diet probably isn't 80/10/10, which seems like more of a fruit-based diet

>>5711006
So you're basically ingesting high amounts of omega 6 from nuts. Where do you get your Omega 3s from? Do you take supplements? How's your inflammation doing?

This is my primary reason why I don't buy into this plant based stuff. When you look at the fat composition it just doesn't go your way. I bet you'll just tell me it doesn't matter, because you feel fine and you don't take physical exams because that's what yoru gurus like McDougall tell you.

>>5710997

Ha, I think you misgoogled or something. That's carbsanity, a blog dedicated to speaking against the high-fat suggestions of various diet promoters. That specific article is discussing why the breastmilk argument isn't a good one. I can see that every species' breastmilk is quite high in fat, even obligate herbivores who obviously thrive on a very lean diet of grasses as adults, like cows.

Even ignoring this article's debunking of that claim, if babies were no different than adults, wouldn't the low cholesterol of human infants also prove that low cholesterol levels are preffered?

>>5711017

>So you're basically ingesting high amounts of omega 6 from nuts. Where do you get your Omega 3s from?

The only nut I eat is walnuts, but walnuts and especially flax seeds are some of the biggest sources of omega-3 in the world. I do take a B12 supplement, but then again I did that before I cut out the meat and dairy as well.

From my point of view, I've seen clinical trials where this style of diet has reversed heart disease without even thinking of the omega-3/omega-6 woo that the low carb promoters try to make a mountain out of

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9863851

And epidemiological data like that of Okinawa, where the traditional diet is very low in fat and yet they're the longest-living people on the planet

And then when I try to get into these low carb, eat-lots-of-fat internet gurus, it's just unproven theory after unproven theory that's incompatible with all observable data

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/vegetarians-are-less-healthy-and-have-a-lower-quality-of-life-than-meateaters-scientists-say-9236340.html
>the vegetarian diet, as characterised by a low consumption of saturated fat and cholesterol, due to a higher intake of fruits, vegetables and whole-grain products, appeared to carry elevated risks of cancer, allergies and mental health problems such as depression and anxiety.

VEGANS BTFO

>>5710930
>Fat aint gonna make you fat though, it's eating carbs that makes your body store the fat.
All excess calories become fat.
Just ask /fit/, /ck/, /sci/ or even /b/ and /pol/.

>>5711042
But Okinawans ate seafood, which is high in n=3. But even in that study it's just an average of the 2279 people they surveyed. That is in 1949, who the hell knows whether that was accurate or not. Maybe it was during winter and they weren't able to catch enough fish etc.? I'm just saying, all things being equal, a bad ratio in omega 3 to 6 can cause other issues - put heart disease aside for a minute please. And I'm sorry to inform you, but walnuts are actually one of the worse nuts to eat for good n=3. You want to keep the ratio 1:1 as best as possible and LOWER the amounts of those fats you ingest. Walnuts are insanely high, just look it up. If you really cared about this, you'd buy macademia nuts which are the best nuts to eat if you care about your omega ratios.

>>5710945
>I'm a vegan myself and I get...
[opinion discarded]

>>5711058
But don't some dairy products have more fat than meat?

You can be vegetarian and still consume a lot of saturated fat...

OMNIVORES DON'T ALL HAVE THE SAME DIETS

VEGETARIANS DON'T ALL HAVE THE SAME DIETS

VEGANS DON'T ALL HAVE THE SAME DIETS

>>5711058

Well, let's take a look at the actual study they're talking about

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0088278&representation=PDF

Right off the bat, it's a cross-sectional study, meaning it didn't follow people over a length of time but rather all the data came from one survey. As the authors of the study admit:

>"no statements can be made whether the poorer health in vegetarians in our study is caused by their dietary habit or if they consume this form of diet due to their poorer health status."

>>5711058
I know so many vegans from school that suffer severe anxiety, melancholy and depression. I try to explain to them they need fat to synthesize several cell membranes in their brain, but they just laugh it off and call me a shill. Saturated fat is bad for you after all. It's like I'm telling them to just eat fat, when all I'm saying is they should probably add a little more fat into their diet.

Oh well, what do I know. At least I don't suffer from depression and have severe acne.

>>5711070

The diet shown there is the traditional diet associated with their longevity. It's changing to a more western diet now, and with that change their life expectancy is going down, but it goes to show that the diet was very low in any animal products and very high in purple sweet potatoes, their extremely lean staple food.

About omega-3 though, can you explain why you're more concerned about getting a 1:1 omega-3/omega-6 ratio than anyone in the medical profession who has credentials that might give their opinions more gravity? Like I said, all I see from the low carb crowd are a bunch of "but this" and "but that," opposite to what I see from the high carb crowd which is basically the world's leading doctors and researchers, like Caldwell Esselstyn who was former president of the Cleveland Clinic, and William C. Roberts who's the editor of the American Journal of Cardiology, who have decades of experience and have proven what they preach with valid clinical data. I'm not interested in what someone like Chris Kresser or Joseph Mercola claim over what Esselstyn and Dean Ornish have proven. Do you get what I mean?

>>5711058
>muhhh science

>>5711101
I get what you mean, but you're making a big leap of assumption here. You're arguing to me about things I already know. When did I ever say I ate "paleo" or HFLC? I'm just trying to get you to tell me what you do about your omega 3/6 ratio. And you said walnuts. Which proves to me that all you do is follow what you read on vegsource and nutritionfacts and call it a day. If you don't even understand why this is important, you clearly never read a book about biochemistry. I got what I was looking for, thank you. I don't need to indulge your fetish of "hurrdurr these paleotards are idiots, look at these people I trust in!" ad nauseam. I find both ends of the spectrum cleverly misguided. Pick up a book and question some of the choices you're making, maybe you'll learn a thing or two about yourself.

>>5710701
Forming opinion off one poorly produced propaganda video made by a comedian, what are you a middle aged women on facebook?

>>5711115

> I'm just trying to get you to tell me what you do about your omega 3/6 ratio. And you said walnuts

Don't forget to read past the things you're looking for. I said flax seeds as well, which have a 4:1 ratio of omega-3 to 6. What I'm suggesting is that you put way too much stake into the 3:6 ratio, when it apparently isn't the most important thing to be concerned about. As for "look at these people I trust in" and both sides being misguided, what exactly do you mean? I can understand you wanting to see all the data and study things thoroughly, but why do you think the people who have proven what they say are on the same level as people making random claims on the internet that go completely against what is accepted by mainstream science? Do you believe in gravity or was Isaac Newton just some crackpot too?

>>5711147
http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/meds/omega3pathway.htm

Yes, my field of work is psychology. In any case, change up those flax and walnuts for macademia and you'll reap the benefits. I loathe how all of you plant people always argue against heart disease, but you never try to expand your own dietary choices beyond that. Stop lingering already, jesus christ. Let's tackle other issues, longevity, healthy skin, healthy brain and moods etc. I'm not saying people like McDougall or Esselstyn are misguided, I'm saying a lot of their "followers" are just the same as paleo fanatics.

>>5711163

>change up those flax and walnuts for macademia and you'll reap the benefits

If your argument is for more omega-3, less omega-6, macadamia nuts have a 1:6 ratio, while walnuts have a 1:4 and flax seeds have a 4:1

>I loathe how all of you plant people always argue against heart disease

Until heart disease stops being the leading cause of death in the western world, I don't think it's dumb to give it extra importance

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3520090/

Fruits and vegetables also improve mood

http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2004/carbs

As does carbohydrate in general, without extra protein atleast

>>5710940
HAHHAHAHA

GET A LOAD OF THIS FUCKING FAGGOT