/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>5335742
>>organic food tastes noticeably better than nonorganic
>penn&teller organic bananas

>>5336481
who gives a shit about bananas? Now organic celery definitively tastes better than non-organic. I will never buy anything but organic celery again.

>>5336481
they own a banana farm? shit.

>>5335742
organic potatoes are pretty good.

>>5335742
I prefer inorganic food like solid waste.

>>5335742
>>organic food tastes noticeably better than nonorganic
woah woah woah woah woah woah woah....
woah.
woah.

I won't believe that it's actually better in general unless I do a blind taste test for a lot of different foods.
I can believe that people who know feel that they do taste better by the placebo effect, and maybe that's worthwhile. But yeah, poor person here.

here's an excerpt of an article with sources from peer reviewed studies and government health organizations

If the UK government doesn't think organic is real, then its not real. I'm not listening to you, hippy.

The shit they use to keep pests off organic crops is far more troubling than inorganic. For example, sulfur and lime, which would give you a chemical burn if it got on your skin.

The problem is that, without the benefit of chemical engineering, the pesticides which are permitted have similar toxicity rates in pests and humans while man made pesticides can be far more toxic to pests than humans, permitting far lower amounts to be used.

>>5335742
>Why are poor people so jelly?

There not, they get a good laugh at middle class smucks paying out the nose for an inferior product that they think makes them look superior

>organic food tastes noticeably better than nonorganic

Blind taste tests disprove this myth.

Far lower yields
Worse resistance to drought, pests, hot, cold and pretty much everything
Grown using antiquated pesticides that cause problems in humans.
Costs twice as much as normal food
Goes off in half the time

Not one reason to eat organic food

Organic food leaves bad taste in the mouths of some consumers.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121207085551.htm

>>5338140
does that old woman have a little beard?

>organic food is overpriced hipster bullshit
>get excited because a farmer's market is in my city
>go to it
>$8 for a head of "organic" cabbage
>"organic meat" is over $15 a pound
>go to a tiny ass shitty city of like 10 people in arkansas where my family lives
>get 2 dozen eggs from a farmer selling them out of a truck for $2
>ask if he has milk or beef
>go to his farm, tells me to pick a cow
>become bros and hit him up each time i visit family
>has started a honey farm on the side

organic food is the tops if you can get it from actual bro-tier farmers and none of this "but muh animalz and veganz" tards. Organic food does taste better but I've only found it noticeable in some things like certain tomatoes, gold potatoes, eggs, and some beef

also america has really shitty mass produced food to begin with. go to another first world country and buy supermarket meat and vegetables, it's much better quality

Organic is pretty bullshit for the most part, I would like to make the argument that some organic produce can be better than conventional. Not because its organic but because a lot of the time more care and stricter quality control goes into the organic produce.

For instance I can't stand Red Delicious apples most of the time. But I've bought some of them organic from Whole Foods that were actually really juicy and flavorful. I don't think its because they were organic, I think its because the grower put more care into growing a quality apple.

Am I wrong here? Not looking for a shitstorm, just wondering if there is any truth to what I'm saying.

I dunno man, organophosphates are pretty damn toxic. Officially they're made to kill insects, but the research that led to their development was basically a continuation of WW2 research into nerve agents. I grew up in farming country and knew a good number of orchardists (including my mother) that were poisoned by malathion and guthion, both organophosphate pesticides, and the shit ain't pretty. These pesticides were pretty aggressively promoted by the industry as "safe" for a really long time, but were eventually banned in my region, because even when used as directed, tended to cause nasty effects in farmers and were not breaking down molecularly on produce quick enough that unacceptable levels were found on market ready fruit.

I don't really trust any of the companies that sell and develop pesticides. I have a good knowledge of organic chemistry, and I've seen what these pesticides do to people, and have worked in the sector of the Canadian agricultural industry responsible for testing produce.

Sulfur and lime cause burns, yeah, but they aren't nerve poisons. And conventional farmers rely heavily on sulfur and lime as much as organic farmers do anyway.

I'm not a hippie, or a hipster or anything but I don't trust the shit they put on non-organic food at all. And I know a fuck of a lot about it it was my job for 11 years.

>>5336481
lol I gotta say, in countries that still eat organic, this is completely the reverse. People KNOW organic tastes worse. A lot of people buy non-organic on purpose, just cause it tastes better.

>>5335742
/thread

OP makes an excellent point, organic food is not this weird new thing, its actually the normal way. the awkward and strange way is actually what monsanto is doing, all this genetic modification and pesticides...

oh and agent orange is approved again for use on food.

>>5338146
no citation.

your comment being consider important? not needed.
>>5338944
>go to publix once
>wow nice store
>try to buy anything organic in the store
>severely overpriced
>come to the conclusion that publix wants people to believe that their prices for organic food are "normal" so that they can ride the wave and rip people off.


go to any truly honest store and buy organic food for only 1-2$ more than monsatan garbage.

Go look at the concentrations of those pesticides required to illicit any physiological change in humans, and realize how you could eat nothing but vegetables bathed in the shit for the rest of your life and in all likn all likelihood come to no harm.

People who hate "GMOs" while they happily eat "organic" plants that have been selectively bred by humans for hundreds of years to have certain properties are fucking retards, and hypocrites. As soon as the techniques used require somebody to graduate high school, you braindead progress hating sperglizards lose your shit and start fearmongering.

Their is technology being developed to increase macro and micro nutrient density in crop yields, make grains sturdy enough to cultivate in regions of the world that currently languish in famine, and yes, increase crop yields in commercial farming by increasing pesticide and fertilizer efficiency. You hippies are literally threatening lives and livelihoods with your ridiculous, unfounded worldview. You are enemies of progress and I hope catch a bowel parasite from your fucking "no pesticide" lettuce

Seralini used rats that get in 90% of cases always a cancer, used groups of 10 animals and he actually found out that sometimes the more glyphosate and GMO he fed the rats the less likely they were to die (statistical error due to using small control groups.

>>5338960
>live in diseased wasteland
>fruits and vegetables arrive at the store full of bugs and taste like crap
>"organic food tastes horrible!"
>dump poison on everything
>doesn't have bugs this time
>"hmm it looks nicer!"

and then

>live in a place where the farms are run by farmers that have a passion for growing the best of the best
>the have professional knowledge on how to grow things with rich soil >they protect the crops from pests and other problems, while still growing everything organic.
>tastes great, looks great, all good.
>different farmer adds a bunch of poison to their own stuff to sell
>hey guis pls by my monsancrap

>>5339263
>selective breeding is the same as going into a lab and altering the plants genetic code to make it produce poison inside of itself

full hue

>>5335742
organic farming simply isn't sustainable and yields consistently smaller crops and would cause food prices to skyrocket without actually increasing income for farmers

>>5339263
>"you could eat nothing but vegetables bathed in the shit for the rest of your life and in all likn all likelihood come to no harm."

citation totally needed bro

>>5339263
>"Their is technology being developed to increase macro and micro nutrient density in crop yields, make grains sturdy enough to cultivate in regions of the world that currently languish in famine, and yes, increase crop yields in commercial farming by increasing pesticide and fertilizer efficiency. You hippies are literally threatening lives and livelihoods with your ridiculous, unfounded worldview."

and how have they lived up until now? oh right they grew their fruits and vegetables their way for more than a hundred years just fine.

how oh how will they ever survive without pesticides and surfactants!

>"You are enemies of progress and I hope catch a bowel parasite from your fucking "no pesticide" lettuce"

u mad?

>>5339281
have you never googled about this before? it takes less than a minute

>>5339280
[citation needed]

>>5339287
weight of the claim is upon you my friendly stranger.

>>5339286
>and how have they lived up until now? oh right they grew their fruits and vegetables their way for more than a hundred years just fine.
ya and famine and hunger were common things even in the so called civilized world untill the advent of pesticides and later genetic modifications

>>5338153
this whole thread
>[citation needed]
>[citation needed]
>[citation needed]
the one cite to to any source at all is about marketing and has nothing to do with the actual quality of organics.

is it a troll tread yet?

>>5339293
>"untill the advent of pesticides and later genetic modifications"

hmmm

http://rt.com/usa/superbug-monsanto-corn-resistance-628/
http://urbanorganicnews.com/superbugs-and-antibiotics-monsanto/
http://rt.com/usa/superbug-monsanto-corn-resistance-628/comments/page-2/
http://treatingstaphsuperbugmrsa.com/category/food-supply-2/gmo-crops/

oh yes! gmo's save us all, until... they don't.

you people pushing gmo's and pesticides on people are nothing but a bunch of vacuum cleaner salespeople with their foot stuck in the door.

>>5339295
>"the one cite to to any source at all is about marketing and has nothing to do with the actual quality of organics. "

[citation needed]

>>5339301
chillax bruh, you wanna eat organic that's fine, but stop pushing for anything that's not organic to be banned. gmo's are quite literally the only hope places like africa have to become something more than just the anus of the planet

>>5339292

idc if you guys believe horseshit because you're too lazy to spend a few minutes googling

>>5339301

>and not a single scientific journal was found

you might as well have cited naturalnews

>>5339309
>" but stop pushing for anything that's not organic to be banned."

I didn't say that. while the links may have mentioned some of that, their views do not accurately reflect mine.

>"gmo's are quite literally the only hope places like africa have to become something more than just the anus of the planet"

how do you know this? citation needed?

>>5339316
are you saying-
"guys believe me and eat stuff drenched in agent orange because its safe"?

no way. that is a bad idea.

>>5339318
yesss yesssss evil shills.... discredit and reject all links no matter what.... like always

>>5339324
I know this because gmos are drought and pestilence resistant, and doing things the natural way has done jack squat for africas food situation so far, or do you believe the southpark bullshit about sally struthers hoarding all the food

>>5335742
>organic food has actual guidelines it has to follow to be considered organic
if you actually knew those guidelines and how lax they are you wouldn't bother to eat organic.

>organic food tastes noticeably better than nonorganic
false

>>5339327
>thinking rt is a reliable source
>thinking organic news magazines are anything other than propaganda machines

>>5339330
you really dont think that the whole instability issue might have something to do with their lack of supply?

>>5339338
no, the instability is due to a lack of supply

>>5339341
idk it looks like this dude would rather yell at people than eat the bread on his head or you know share it with orphans like Aladdin

>>5339351
fuck

>>5339338
this and they eat the seeds instead of planting them because nobody bothers teaching them how it works.

they need education and lots of help, and don't get much of either.

>>5339341
what?


>>5339334
>"organic food tastes noticeably better than nonorganic"
>"false"

I prefer organic food and notice a difference in it compared to food that isn't.

>all these braindead liberals ITT who think organic means non-GMO

>>5339261
Glad to see all of the citations you provided in the OP. Organic food is actually all of those things that anon said, please do your research properly before spouting off bullshit.

>>5339355
>greentexting with quotations

>>5339355
>every other race figured out animal husbandry and farming on their own

>dumb africans can't figure this shit out

>wahhh it's because nobody taught them

>>5339356
your right in the broadest since everything is genetically modified. However the term as it applies today, and in this thread, means by artificial means.Artificial of course referring to laboratory procedures.

>>5339356
non-gmo is actually a part of organic foods because organic food doesn't allow the use of genetically modified ingredients.

>>5339366
>picking at little things that don't matter to change the subject

strawman


>>5339369
so you suggest everyone let them die?

they need help, and not from some gmo pesticide corporation.

>>5339373
>organic food doesn't allow the use of genetically modified ingredients.

>>5339381
they aren't worth helping, they'd rather rape and pillage than take up farming

>>5339381
that's not what i did and that's not what a strawman is either.

The current consensus on the topic of pesticide exposure is that, as far as it's been studied, there's no harm caused by ingesting residual amounts of pesticides.

Those assholes have said that about quite a lot of things in the past century and only realized they were wrong after enough people got diseases and cancer. Maybe modern pesticides are perfectly safe and I'm wasting my money buying organic food but I don't really care. It's not that much more expensive and I'd rather pay a dollar or two more for the product with less residual pesticides. If I can afford free range chicken and grass fed beef and organic produce then you better believe I'm gonna buy it.

>it's 2014 and people STILL don't know most organic foods are GMOs

>>5335742
Because it shits all over the environment.
That said I occasionally buy organic/local.

>>5339369
implying you would have a clue if you hadn't had some rudimentary biology class in highschool

>>5339381

>so you suggest everyone let them die?

I'm not that anon but yes, that's exactly what I would suggest. Africa has obscene, obscene potential and it could be one of the most prosperous places on the planet if the people living in it weren't so obsessed with raping and murdering and committing genocide on one another.

>>5339408
yeah because until biology classes no one farmed or anything

>>5339396
>everyone lives in America

>>5339412
>implying murkastrong doesn't provide most of the worlds crops

>>5339384
>organic food doesn't allow the use of genetically modified ingredients.

yes?

>>5339369
>Africans don't understand animal husbandry or farming
ummm okay?

>>5339418
lol nope.

Also, GMO crops from America are not allowed in the EU.

>>5339422
yep, bitches can't even dig a well on their own

>>5339388
shall I suggest you go back to \pol\?

>>5339389
ok so just grammar nazi. got it.


>"The current consensus on the topic of pesticide exposure is that, as far as it's been studied, there's no harm caused by ingesting residual amounts of pesticides."

[citation jumping jesus needed]

>>5339396
>implying gmo's are the same as selective breeding and hybridizing.

>>5339400
hey a nice person who knows it how it is, hello fellow human being!

>>5339411
why dont you tell me how many generations of corn you have observed and tell me what traits are dominant or recessive.
Mendel studied peas for a fucking decade before he published anything those things grow up fucking quick too do you have any idea how many generations he observed before he fucking figured it out.

>>5339432
>source of most of the worlds diamonds
>still the poorest place on earth
the only problem with africa is that it's filled with africans

>>5339432
>\pol\
>greentexts with quotations yet again
please go back to reddit

>>5339435
>implying no one grew anything untill they studied it to death
bitch pleas
farming has been around far longer than it's knowledge has been codified

>>5339437
Actually, the problem with Africa is that it was literally divided up by foreign countries and exploited for hundreds of years.

>>5339445
>implying africa wasn't far more livable under great brittians rule

>>5339410
I see how you might think the way you do. I still think we should help them.

I once heard a story about a tribe that goes to rape and kill another tribe every day because their deity told them that they were the best and had to bash on those lesser guys.

they come riding in on cars and shooting ak47's to kill and pillage constantly.

someone provided them with those weapons and vehicles, that money is coming in from somewhere, while this other tribe is starving and being killed every day.

things are very messed up right now, those who need it are not getting enough help.

>>5339443
genetics is just one part of farming
idk if you've seen pictures of the place but it ain't fucking wet

irrigation and tilling aren't exactly natural instincts i know we think all farmers are fucking hicks but farming is still more than just fucking a seed into mother earths warm open vag

>>5339445
Or the fact its people were (and still are) tribals living mud huts with little desire for betterment.

>>5339454
how do you know they don't dream?

>>5339455

>how do you know they don't dream?

Since the dawn of history the negro has owned the continent of Africa, rich beyond the dream of poet's fancy, crunching up acres of diamonds beneath his bare feet. His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart or sled. A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of it's use. In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud.

With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed upon the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail.

>>5339486
maybe they didn't need too? maybe they didn't care about shiny rocks that the rest of the world seems to go crazy about? maybe they did not selfishly seek to control nature's creatures? maybe they never needed to make a tool that would last more than a use or two because they were so good at making them that they didn't have to worry, and could simply just make another if they wished? maybe they understood that the tools came from the earth and went back to it just as easily? maybe they saw an ocean that went over the horizon and never invented a sail lest they hasten their dark future, of slaver and the rape of their land... the native americans met a similar fate.

>>5339529
maybe they're just less intelligent than the rest of the world on average by every measure of intelligence.

oh wait, they are.

>>5339486

Darwin was a smart man. Even he could tell that something was "wrong" with Africans.

But they did carve blocks... lots and lots of them under direction of Eyptian overlords... who were as white as any greek, palestinian, or syrian.

>>5339529
>dark future, of slaver
africans had been trading, capturing, and using slaves for thousands of years before a white european ever stepped foot in africa.

>>5339539
>>5339536
>>5339537

how do you know?

>>5339529

>the native americans met a similar fate.

Well, one, both Africans and native americans were murdering, raping and cannibalizing their fellow natives just fine before the evil white man arrived.

Two, native americans have an excuse for their lack of technological advancement - there weren't any animals native to the continent that were much good for domestication or farming.


>>5339543

You serious? Are you really asking how we know that Egyptians built things out of stone blocks or how we know that slavery existed in Africa before Europeans arrived?

>>5339548
>Well, one, both Africans and native americans were murdering, raping and cannibalizing their fellow natives just fine before the evil white man arrived.
...and the white man wasn't? Why do people have this odd standard for any foreign people: they must band together, protect each other, and treat each other perfectly or else they are monsters.

An African killing an African? Proof that they are animals and hate one another. All black people should feel guilty for the crimes of other black people too.

But when a white army kills millions or a white person is a serial killer? Well, I'm not my race's keeper.

>>5339384
>>5339396
and as always this thread does not pay attention to what's really happening, "organic tasts bett, I'm willin to pay a premium"
-and so big businss listned
cornucopia.org/who-owns-organic/
and this is apart from the problem that fertilizers are the world's food source
>>5339437
you better go and chech up in your geopolitics and your gdp vs income gap, your political systems, and your international mineral exploitation trades before you go making those simple minded attacks
>>5339451
way much more
>>5339529
maybe they didn't live in a piece of shit land that freezes over every year so they don't need to go crazy dreaming of money
egypt is in africa by the way, as is sudan ethiopia

>>5339396

actually no. Most organic certification boards (and by most I mean practically all) don't allow the planting of GMOs. A certain amount of genetic contamination is present in wind-pollinated crops like maize that complicates the issue, but a genetically contaminated crop with introduced engineered genes is not a deliberately modified crop. Moreover, most commonly purchased crops are not genetically engineered; the bulk is corn, cotton, soy and canola.

I don't know where people get this shit from.

ITT

>>5340803
I didn't even argue in this thread but I just wanted to let you know you're a faggot

>>5340938

>>>/pol/

>>5340959

>>>/pol/

>>5340938
>implying you have to be a social justice warrior to know that /pol/ is filled with inbred dumb asses.

>>5340803
>>5340959
>>5340965
>>>/b/

>>5336642
>who gives a shit about something delicious
>now here's a vegetable that is easily the worst tasting thing anybody could eat

>>5335742
>>5340993

>>>/pol/

b-but muh norman borlaug

>>5341009
>b-but the man who has saved no less than 100 million people

>>5341009
>>5341240

>>>/pol/

>>5341240
A bandaid solution using intensive-agri measures that drastically increases the populations in arid, famine-stricken environments is not actually a good thing.

It just means the next famine in these areas will be far worse, thanks to the "100 million people saved".

>>5338133
You think Sulpher and lime is bad? You should read up on what actual organic farms use.

bump

>>5338146
other reasons to eat it

not one reason to pay the premium for it

the difference is subtle but distinct.

>>5338948
You're wrong here.

The problem with organic is labeling. People are greedy so a lot of producers will just scrape by and meet the requirements to get the organic label and a lot will just fucking cheat. There have been cases of blatant mislabeling to get the organic extra buck. It is pretty easy to get bogus "organic" produce and if you make a judgement call about all organic food in general from that experience, it's gonna be a bad one.

Organic is only worth it if you buy from farmers that do organic out of conviction and love for the process, not for a quick buck. Even then, there's some stuff where you just won't have a noticeable difference in taste. Especially if you buy quality non-organic produce. It's not like that's all the same either. There's huge variation in quality among non-organic farmed produce too. To the point where high quality non-organic will be much better than shitty organic-produce.

In the long term it's not just about taste, not even just about your personal health but also about the eco system and cutting down on the use of pesticides and having less of a negative impact on ground water and so on.