/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>5238711
>What the hell do I tell him?

Just how delicious meat is.

Well what's your argument for why meat is alright to eat and what's he saying back?

>>5238719
I'm saying it's fine because it provides protiens that are hard to find elsewhere and that humans are omnivorous, and he keeps telling me it's immoral and nobody has the right to kill a living thing.

He tried to further this point by drawing attention to how in Star trek they don't harm sentient beings. See what I endure?

Because your physical wellbeing is depended on eating meat. It is true though you can subsistute the nutriets with supplements (B12, etc) - but this does not change the biological reality we live in. Especially if the butchering and breeding occur in a humane way.

If he denies you the right to eat other animals for nutrients, ask him why should we then draw the line at humans, and not all animals?

>>5238723

Well you're making a pretty dumb argument, but on his end an argument just from morality isn't great either

It feels like you're talking to a rock because you're both saying dumb shit and neither of you realize it

>taking this bait

ck please

but is it really alright to eat meat?

I mean I do it because its delicious but I dont have to, I choose to. taste is sort of flimsy reason to allow the killing of animals

If he says "but muh animals" you tell him "I don't give a shit about the animals."
If he says "but ur health" you tell him "I don't give a shit about my health, either."

>>5238735
If you stop, you'll have more money to spend on vidya. Even shitty meat costs more than the other options.

Approach it in a very easy manner.

Human tooth enamel is very, very, very thin in comparison to other omnivores and especially herbivores. By comparison a cows tooth enamel is 18 times harder, and almost 500% times thicker than that of a human.

The reason behind this is that a cow eats grasses and grains, and inevitably little bits of sand, dirt, dust etc. If a human was to do that, we'd have no teeth within 12 years, they would be damaged and gone by then, and likely the person might be dead as well to an infection.

So either we're evolved to wash our plant intake off, OR we've evolved to where eating meat is also a good idea.

>>5238727
vegans are vegan because they think vegan is the way to be healthy, you cant change that in one debate
me? I would argue it to be a natural high
I can spend 300 dollars on some fine ass grass or i can spend 300 on 300 dollars worth of grass fed steak
and ill come out the happier man

>>5238741

Ancient man didn't eat plants?

>>5238737
bullshit
i was a vegetarian for two years, and it was so much more expensive to eat well

>>5238746
Then you're bad at shopping/cooking and/or eating shit now.

>>5238735
This is why the human race is literally retarded
its the only race that seems to have remorse in killing an animal
I can guarantee you hippyshit, that if shamu ate your ass, the last thing it would care about is your feelings
you don't need a justification for killing to satisfy hunger, its natural

>>5238746

How? It's the same thing as a meat diet except your caloric staples shift from meat to legumes and whole grains, which are undeniably cheaper than meat

>>5238748

>everyone else is an asshole, so let me be one too!

One day when you're an adult you'll realize how ridiculous this reasoning is

>>5238754
I see your reading comprehension matches your outward intelligence. Dumbass.

>>5238760

Is that not what you said? Or are you just embarrassed that I pointed out what you said was stupid?

>>5238741

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/07/23/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/

>>5238754
being an asshole out of necessity is one thing
being an asshole for fun is another
say a bully who does it for fun, and a drill sgt who does it because its part of the mindset conditioning
That applies to killing to eat which is, again, fucking natural, as opposed to killing sport, which I would agree is fucked up and wasteful
But if you want to pull out retarded Piers-morgan tier nonsensicals, than Ill talk farts
why dont you vegefaggots all go to an island and never come back, your broccoli farts and asparagus pisses are like the fucking plague

>>5238765
I'm not the person that posted that, but you obviously have zero critical thinking skills, since you can't differentiate between talking about how nature works and personal attacks. Your post was bad and you should feel bad.

>>5238769

>being an asshole out of necessity is one thing

What's necessary about it in this context?

>>5238765
also the anon here>>5238760
is not the anon here >>5238769
I'm not embarassed, I'm just not sure how you can equate being an asshole, with hunger, which is a perfectly essential urge

http://youtu.be/R4D1godY4vI

http://youtu.be/V4jZ_BV4MQ4

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill

http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi#PETA

>>5238767
we change and evolve with time
evolve=/=getting better, it just means we changed
Still, the dodo never evolved its wings for flight and it went the way of the dodo bird
thank fuck our ancestors weren't dodo birds

>>5238769
I know i wrote a wall of text but if you're going to not read even half my fucking post
>and a drill sgt who does it because its part of the mindset conditioning

>>5238785
>>5238773
forgot to reply to the right person
either way, shouldve listened to
>>5238729
vegetarians really are unreasonable and dumb

>>5238780

Of course, but we didn't change that majorly, especially in regards to the tooth enamel argument

>>5238790
I'm still not quite sure what the tooth enamel argument is
I just know i like my steak rar-ish (if lean) and with a side of steamed broccoli (no sauces)

>>5238779
>http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi#PETA

Everything negative you hear about PETA originates from this spin doctor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Berman

>>5238796
Everything negative I hear about PETA comes from talking to people who either support or rally against PETA. They are a terrorist cult, and most people involved are fucking idiots.

OP here.
The vegan went to bed, but we've agreed to disagree.
In other news while you're all arguing, does anyone have a good recepie for an Irish Steak and Guinness Pie? I want to make one for Saint Paddy's in a few weeks.

I don't eat meat because for the black community, eating meat leads to diabetes, high blood pressure, heart attack, cancer etc etc. Not to mention that if you live in America, the food is designed to get you sick so you can by "medicine" to get more sick. Plus all the chemicals and fake shit they pur in the meats, from human DNA all the way to rat DNA. Dont get me wrong, meat is delicious. I just wanna live longer and not get sick because I decided to be dumb and not pay attention to what im eating.

>>5238820
Why particulary for the black community?

>>5238820
did you know yahoo studies also say running is bad for you, wine gives you cancer, and everything you do gives you cancer?
So I mean I guess you should box yourself in with lead, and then reinforce the box with plastic so you don't get gamma rays which cause cancer, and lead poisoning which kills!
and you should stop breathing so you don't oxidize your body, thus aging yourself and inadvertently killing yourself
fucking moron

>>5238828 here
>>5238820
being sarcastic is mean i know, but I couldn't help but be pissed at how big >>5238820's tin foil hat was
its like if all that shit is on meat, it magically isn't somehow isn't on the vege, it's literally hearing only what you want to hear, and filtering everything else out

>>5238820
How interesting a black man who thinks the system is out to get him

>>5238824
Because most of us are eating food that goes against our physiology. eating McNastys, junk/processed food only kills us slowly and the diseases we get hit us at least 2x harder than any othet race. We out here eating soul (slave) good and we have been trained to think that we are inevitably supposed to get sick. Ignorance is a killer.

You guys don't even ask questions to even consider what I'm talking about. Lol just write me off as some dude who doesn't know what he's talking about.

A vegan diet can sustain most every form of vitimin or mineral required by the human body sans a few easily made up with supplements. It does require more planning such as properly complementing vegetables to get all 6 required amino acids you'd normally get from one serving of meat. But the diet is sound regardless.

If you wished to argue in favor of meat you can just go generic RULES OF NATURE, or far easier to consume and worry less about meeting dietary needs, how a lot of meat animals are humanly treated even though they focus on the ones in terrible conditions all the time. Always argue how hunting keeps ecosystem balance and prevents the land from going barren and everything dyeing.

>>5238831
You go on assuming and think i think that all vegan food is free from bullshit and blah blah blah. I didn't say that. We got GMO out here too. What I'm trying to do is lessen the hits I get that hurts my body. YES I know there's gamma rays and plenty of things cause cancer but that doesn't mean I just say "forget it, I'll eat whatever I want."

>>5238832
The "system" doesn't care who it takes down. White people and every other race gets jacked up shoving burgers down their face too.

>>5238839

>It does require more planning such as properly complementing vegetables to get all 6 required amino acids you'd normally get from one serving of meat

That's kind of a myth. Amino acids combine without you thinking about it, if you just eat more than one kind of food a day then your proteins will complete. Nobody eats just one kind of food every day

>>5238848
and I wasn't saying you should eat whatever you want (actually you should, but as always the crux is that you should do so in moderation)
Your argument however was solely aimed at meat and its magically unproven ability to somehow singlehandedly fuck black people over
which is stupid because its like all you do is read the "why meat is bad for you" bullshit yahoo news spews out every week

>>5238857

> its like all you do is read the "why meat is bad for you" bullshit yahoo news spews out every week

That seems to be the news everywhere, on every news site and scientific journal. Maybe there's something to it.

>>5238857
Once again you assume things about me. You think I'm reading this off of yahoo news? No. Somebody else was ready yahoo news as they stated in a previous post. You are trying to discredit what I'm saying but you don't even know where I got my information from. Yes I did attack meat specifically because meat specifically is fucking up black people. I apologize if I offended your meat.

>>5238859
reading*

>>5238858
or maybe there's not, because it's fucking easy to rig statistics to your point of view
I'm going to remind you that there's an article on yahoo out there that says cardiovascular exercise is bad for youth
>>5238859
I know you got your information from common knowledge, which yahoo news is full of
My point is this
Some dumbass tells me meat will kill me, and proceeds to smoke a ciggy in my face
Science shows we're all going to die
Irishmen can chug a pint of guiness till the ripe old age of 9X and die of a hip injury
EVERYTHING EVER WILL GIVE YOU CANCER
the whole world is out to get us, and carcinogens are present in incredibly small traces in, unsurprisingly, everything
It's fucking natural that isotopes, the source of natural and unavoidable radiation, are present in small amounts in anything ever, and that we can eventually get mutations and cancers from said mutations
My point is there are easier and much more easier ways to die:
you can go get blown up by the taliban
you can worry yourself to death (the stress is arguably worse than any carcinogen or fat from any meat) which ironically can also be the source of your niggardly blood pressure
or you can go kill yourself and quit being so fucking paranoid that cow meat is going to kill you here and now
Its literally no different than being a crazy naked doomsayer on the eve of new years 2012 telling everyone jesus is coming back, and alot of us are going to hell

>>5238859
and >meat is specifically fucking up black people
oh dear god you're retarded
every black person ever eats too much fried chicken, this is a fact here in houston because KFC's have been held up for running out of chicken
The average black person WILL order their steak welldone, which most people dont know how to cook, which leads to burnt proteins, which are carcinogens
the average black person and indeed the average american will go for quantity, but not quality
I dont know a single one of my friends who has ever enjoyed mid-upper class mediterranean food because they based their judgements on costs of herbs n shit, and didnt get the good meats because "it cost too much" blame your stupid self for buying shit quality

>>5238866
Once again you are assuming things. You think I got this from "common knowledge". No. I rigged the statistics for my point of view? Hmmm....how about you go look up who leads the country in diabetes and high blood pressure.

Some things I totally agree with you on. There is soooo much shit that gives us cancer. I know. What I'm trying to figure out is what exactly are you trying you tell me? That there's so much shit out there that I/we shouldn't be worried about what's in a cow or pork?

>>5238870
Man hold up......Are you a white person? How you gonna tell me about black peoples health? You calling me all types of names over a discussion about food. Haha come on now. Why you getting emotional?

>>5238875
>That there's so much shit out there that I/we shouldn't be worried about what's in a cow or pork?
Actually that's exactly what Im trying to tell you
Worry about real problems
The US is a 1st world country, it's entitled to problems like overeating, which I would prefer to starvation, because starvation implies we're no better than shitty third world countries
Look at fucking Boston, its got a Dunkin Donuts literally every block, and in some cases on opposite sides of the same street (google street view that shit, its true)
as if downing a mega diet coke and eating fried chicken is preferable to an unsweetened iced tea and a burger
>>5238879
I'm actually asian, but I love arguing with vegans and vegetarians because I think they're hella stupid for rigging their logical foundations
But if you must know, ever since Katrina happened, the "refugees" never left houston, crime went up in the general houston area and middle school was shit for me because there were a ton of fights and, for lack of a better term, niggers
I know not to blame every black person
but you know a nigger when you see a nigger he/she acts in a way befitting a nigger, and calls him/herself a nigger

>>5238885
In the black community food is a real problem. We are eating food that is going against us. It is a REAL problem because I see it in my family and my people. For all those black people who avoided the Taliban but kept on eating bullshit because it wasn't a real problem, guess what? They had a stroke or a heart attack or cancer. Food is meant to nourish your body not slowly destroy it. Either you gonna eat something that helps or hurts your body and since people eat everyday, its a inescapable choice to make everyday. So check this out.....you're Asian right? Cool, stay in your lane. You can have your own personal experiences and information and all that stuff and that's fine but don't call me names and knock me and what I'm saying when you don't know where I got my information or have the respect to consider what a black person has to say in regards to black people and thier diets. Since you're not black you probably don't have an interest in looking into the black people and food dynamic.

I eat meat but I consider it a personal weakness and recognize it as morally inferior.

But within that context there are levels of morally inferior, tiers relating to how the animal lived, sustainability, amount etc.

There is really no ground to say it's morally equal to being vegan.

>>5238879
How are you
FTFY
What is with Black people and refusing or being unable to speak or write in standard American English?

Why are vegfags such horrible misanthropes? I don't know a single one who isn't a horrible human being incapable of empathy towards their fellow man.

Also do extreme vegfags hate other vegfags too?

>>5238912
Now we both know we've seen plenty of other people write/type some far worse "standard American English" than me. Please don't ask stuff like that just to be an ass.

>>5238914
Vegans are essentially the trannies of the culinary world.

>>5238910
stop looking at food as a means to survive
its much more than a neolithic bare necessity (unless of course you are magically a stupid, unevolved caveman, in which case by all means be my guest and eat to just survive)
cooking and eating should be viewed as a passion and a hobby, it's a way of making friends, communicating with others, and making memories
What the fuck are you on /ck/ for if you ONLY view food as a nourishment
If you want to downplay me for respecting food, then fuck you too
Any food, no matter how bad for you can be managed with moderation

>>5238931
I agree with you as food being a way to communicate, and it can be art and all that. That doesn't mean I'm gonna eat something that I know isn't good for me AT ALL because it looks pretty. Food is used as nourishment among other things. I'm not eating to survive, I'm eating to live. Eating to survive means you'll eat any crap that's lands on your plate. Eating to live means that you understand that eating this or that type of food can help your body strengthen itself. Having the knowledge to know what different food reacts in your body and to mix and match them to make a beautiful, nutritious meal. If that ain't artwork.......

Not saying you can't make artistic burgers either.

>>5238943
>I'm not eating to survive, I'm eating to live
now you're just being fucking stupid because surviving and living are synonyms
you're attempts at being poetic are so fucking roundabout it hurts
I bet your idea of food is fast food, and that you think all 'pretty food' is extravagant and pretentious
plating is more than making a diorama of ryan gosling riding a 6-winged unicorn out of french fries and chicken wire
All that said I don't think its food that kills the black community as you say
Rather, I think Its people like you with unfathomably retarded reasoning that gets you people killed
I might as well go to sleep before I catch your stupid

Normal upper middle class person
>eat free-range beef
>cow walks around on natural grass fields and eats what it wants
>gets slaughtered
>enjoy delicious steak
>bodycount: 1
>somehow worse than hitler and stalin combined


Typical city-dwelling deranged vegan
>eat soy and tofu
>responsible for destruction of whole eco-systems to make room for soy fields
>responsible for massive soil degradation thanks to monocultures
>those monocultures need more care (read: fertilizer and pesticides) than plants grown to feed animals, contaminating the water supply as well
>hundreds of animals are ground up and left to die miserably in fields during soy harvest
>bodycount literally in the hundreds
>somehow morally superior

>>5238950
Lmao so what do you eat for? To survive? Or to live? Since there both synonymous then why you bashing me, talking about I'm eating to survive when you do the same thing? (to your logic) You can call me stupid and make stuff up out of thin air to insult me but your only showing your ignorance.

>>5238950
http://m.dictionary.com/definition/live

http://m.dictionary.com/definition/survive

I hope you can see the difference.

>>5238951
Lots of the "alternative" diet are like that. People don't seem to understand how bad for the environment lots of their substitutes are.

Just stop. eat a burger in his face and walk away.

>>5238711
>arguing with vegans

Are you dumb, boy?

>>5238711
>2014
>not laughing loudly directly in her face
It's the only way.
Logic and facts will never succeed, because her decision was never a logical one to begin with.
The only way to get her to change is to shame her for her foolish choice.

>>5238855
That's not true at all. I have been so poor where there have been days I just ate peanut butter sandwiches all day. Not nutritious at all but vegan!

>>5239270
This
You can't argue with a vegan, they are litterally the densest people in the world. Just ignore him and let him join his group of shitty soymilk coffeedrinking hipsters.

>>5238951
Only a short percentage of cows gets to eat fucking fresh grass. Guess what they get to eat most of their time? SOY! In a proportion were we could feed most people in the world. I'm not a veggie myself but at least do your research.

>>5238723
The thing about that is "sentient beings". Livestock animals are not sentient beings. Of course, he's also making a reference to a fictional code of ethics that forbids a member of the federation from preventing a race of aliens from wiping themselves out.

>>5239270
Damn, bitch. That big fuck was actually the most interesting man in the world in his day.

>>5238910
Hey man I'm Trini and I gotta say you need to chill out and quit acting like every meat is as bad as pork. My cousins in the us know not to chug soda like they're phife and nobody gets diabetes

>>5238911
So animals are amoral for eating meat? get the fuck outta here.

>>5238711
only catchers put meat in their mouth

>>5238910
The food tastes good so I don't give a fuck bro. We're all gonna die someday so I'm gonna spend my time on earth eating what I like eating.

just give up... you won't win... when someone is vegan for moral reasons it's impossible to talk to them... i'm mostly vegan (except honey and occasionally i have yogurt or cheese) and i can't even talk to morality vegans without them arguing with me and telling me my reasons for doing almost exactly what they're doing aren't good enough cuz i don't care about the animals... you actually eat animals and you expect to win? lol

>>5239503
Hello Trini. Are you a black person?

Ask him what better alternative he can offer for the animals. Complete eradication of their species?

"Life must be removed because there is suffering" isn't a good way of thinking.

>>5239569
"so lets just kill them and eat them in the mean time instead"

stop posting

>>5239589

even though we kill & eat for real reasons, not that

>>5239611
yes, very real and very obsolete reasons

Honestly, there are so many healthier meat alternatives now that you have no argument besides "it tastes good and it's traditional"

>>5239619
>>5239617

eating vegan or vegetarian is expensive, there's chemicals in our genetically engineered crops, who gives a fuck about 'moral' reasons, if you feel that way then go to africa & feed people

>>5238723
You don't have to justify why you eat meat. You simply do, animals eat meat and her/his feelings don't decide what's wrong or what's right.

>>5238723
Anyone who references science fiction (emphasis on fiction) as a basis for real life situations should not be taken seriously. He might as well go join Scientology if he's going to go that route, it'd be about the same.

Why the hell do people just up and decide that it's wrong to kill any living thing

I'm fine with serial killers being executed, animals being killed for food, trespassers getting shot. Shit like that. It's all about context with killing.

Also being vegan doesn't even make a difference. Even if your presence in the world even spanned a single pixel, which it doesn't, you and five of your friends not buying meat is not going to disincentivize the entirety of fucking agriculture.

>>5239848
Let me preface this; I'm not a vegfag. In fact I eat plenty of meat, and love butchering.

For some vegfags, it's more about the minimizing of "suffering" - most farmed animals live in less than stellar conditions.

As far as not making a difference, sometimes its not all about making it a difference. Not everything someone does has to be a political statement, changing the ways of the world. Not saying some vegfags treat it this way, but I have family and friends who do it solely for their personal health/moral wellbeing.

>>5239848
Vegans just try to reduce suffering to the bare minimum. Some vegans still occasionally eat cheese and eggs. Most vegans still own pets, even though that's at odds with their movement.

>>5238723
>I'm saying it's fine because it provides protiens that are hard to find elsewhere
It's proteins, not protiens, and in the case of humans, this is not true. Also, this does not address the ethical question.

>and that humans are omnivorous
That's irrelevant, if humans were obligate carnivores you'd have a point, but they aren't.

>and he keeps telling me it's immoral and nobody has the right to kill a living thing.
Even vegans have to kill things, it's all about figuring out where to draw the line. But it sounds like you are both complete imbeciles, so there's no point in continuing the argument.

>>5239526
>So animals are amoral for eating meat? get the fuck outta here.
I don't see how you infer that from the post you quoted. Animals aren't capable of the same level of understanding as humans. Is it not fair to hold an adult to a higher standard than a child? Then it must also be fair to hold a human to a higher standard than a less intelligent species.

>>5239468
>Livestock animals are not sentient beings
What do you call sentient, then?

it says in the bible that all people used to be vegetarians

>>5238711
Whoever started the argument is the retard. Vegans can stick to their own diet. As long as they don't get up into my face about my diet then I'm fine with theirs.

get out now quick while you can.be it hetero or homo,(or even trans though I don't understand it (the failure to like meats.)..cause I am ,well never mind. Really has nothing to do with what you like eat. opolitiucs pubtard ot demqak and am the worser one don't strainyourself like a hound shiting a peachpit do not worryyourself do the best you can.sometimes that's enough.

>>5240590
wow

>>5240595
>as long as they don't get up into my face
They DON'T, though.
Please refer to: militant vegan, animal liberation, etc

I usually don't respond to these threads, but have been in this situation a good number of times, and am drunk.

If I didn't become an alcohol, I was planning on writing a few papers (and maybe a book) on the ethics of eating animals, taking a pro-meat stance (yeah, it would have been an uphill struggle). Basically, every argument/discussion I've been in ultimately comes down to the vegetarian/vegans admitting that it isn't really a matter or reason or logic (as much as both sides like to make arguments.

In ever case, when you push people far enough, it comes down to some visceral experience/encounter, which just left them with a bodily distaste, or even disgust with eating meat/animals. I've literally never met a vegetarian or vegan who chose not to eat animals based on reason. There are many arguments, but in every case, when someone decides not to eat meat/animal products, it is based on some physical reaction.

In other words, as intelligent as they might be, they will always be a rock, and there is nothing you can tell them.

As much as I hate bringing it up, it's pretty similar to atheists arguing with religious anons. The latter have a number or arguments to counter whatever criticism they are faced with, but their faith isn't based on reason in the first place, so it's kinda stupid to even try, or be bothered by it in the first place.

>>5240691
Seriously? None based on reason? Tons of vegans/vegetarians are that way for digestive reasons, health reasons, etc. Not everyone wants to eat meat at every meal, I'm not even sure why it's such a problem to people

>>5240691
>If I didn't become an alcohol

I'm sorry, ma'am...

>>5239526
>So animals are amoral for eating meat? get the fuck outta here.
They ARE amoral, as in without morals, as in not bound by the ethical considerations of civilised men. Being amoral means that they can't be immoral, because to be immoral you have to have broken a moral code, something which animals don't have.

>>5240718

>not everyone wants to eat meat at every meal

Yes, I agree, and also agree that many people cut down on various types of food for digestive/health reasons.

In my experience, there is something of a gap between the majority of people that try to cut down on meat, for whatever reason, and people that have decided to be entirely against eating meat, or animal product in general, as a matter of principle.

The former group are usually influenced by arguments, and often the people they find themselves surrounded by (who are also often giving those arguments). It's not really a big deal to cut down on meat, or even give them up entirely if your other/friends already do so.

People who are vegetarians/vegans, and try to argue their point, are a completely different story. The only reason people have a problem with vegans/vegetarians is because of this latter group. They have made up their mind about not eating meat/animal products, and often make a point to argue about it (yeah, and it's annoying to have a friend that refuses to eat something when you invited a bunch of people over for dinner). My point was that, when you get down to it, there is never a solid, rational argument for going vegetarian/vegan. In virtually every case it comes down to some visceral response they had at some point; and if you've never had an experience like that (eating a piece of meat and seeing it as utterly disgusting - regardless of how well it was prepared), no amount of discussion will make a difference.

Arguing on the internet is a waste of time.

>>5240691

>As much as I hate bringing it up, it's pretty similar to atheists arguing with religious anons

Actually, I always see the vegans as atheists and the non-vegans as mainstream Christians. If you watch The Atheist Experience, you notice that the non-vegans on this board use the same kind of arguments that the Christians on that show use. A lot of vegans actually do research and are starting from a base of knowledge that most meat eaters don't have. By default, most everyone was raised to eat meat, so both sides know the meat-eater perspective, but meat-eaters don't understand the vegan perspective, and in my experience attempt to deny and block out any information or situation that questions their established world view.

>>5241072

I'm drunk, so I guess I'll take the bait.

Yes, you do make a point insofar as both atheists and vegans do research so as to argue against what they see as overly predominant world-views.

The difference is that vegans are trying to start a movement (for better or worse), whereas atheists are against a movement that has been around for a couple thousand years, and nobody really buys into anymore.

The more pertinent issue is that of faith vs. reason, and by faith I mean some kind of visceral, emotional, non-rational response to the cause you're arguing for.

Religious anons have argument after argument up their sleeves, but always ultimately fall back on faith. All I'm saying is that virtually every vegan I've know has fallen back on something I'd equate with "faith" when you get down to their commitments.

In any case, comparing vegans to atheists is the worst analogy I've heard in quite a few years.

Virtually everyone is an atheist these days (which simply means they don't think about religion, and basically don't allow it to affect their life in any way). Maybe you still live in the 17th century, but it's only 17 year old's that even take the time to argue about religion. For most people old enough to post on 4chan it is laughable, and/or simply a way to troll anons.

Vegans are in an analogous relationship. It is a stance that cannot, in any current society, be defended on logical grounds.

>>5241110

> All I'm saying is that virtually every vegan I've know has fallen back on something I'd equate with "faith" when you get down to their commitments.

How so? Every vegan I've known bases their diet on mountains of scientific evidence pointing to plants being the healthiest foods for humans and animal products being the least healthy.

>Virtually everyone is an atheist these days

No offense, but I think that's very naive. On the internet you might find yourself in the presence of a lot of atheists, people who would identify as atheist with no belief in a higher power make up a very small percentage of the population. Coincidentally, it's the same way with vegans

>>5241229

>people who would identify as atheist with no belief in a higher power make up a very small percentage of the population
>coincidentally, it's the same way with vegans

There's no coincidence there. For many people religion plays no role in their lives. It's not a matter of "identifying" one way or another. The misconception comes from people on the internet who get the impression that "atheism

>>5241237

>For many people religion plays no role in their lives

And yet it's still there due to culture and tradition. Atheism, in any society, comes from reflection and analysis, where the default is a religious mindset. Such is the case with veganism.

>>5241237

...that "atheism" is something akin to a "position" people hold.

In reality it is just the absence of anything resembling religious belief being a part of one's life.

The same hold's true, conversely, for veganism. Most people simple eat meat and animal products, and don't give it a second thought.

You seem to have the idea that the religious folk are fighting this group of atheists (yeah, take your own advice and spend some time off the internet), and have all these rational arguments against the mob of heathens (I'm writing in hyperbole, but that basically sounds like what you're saying), wherein the truth is that "atheists" only make up a small handful of individuals that feel the need to start shit with the sons and daughters of farmers from the middle of nowhere.

>i'm drunk and not willing to re-read my post, and also accidentally posted my post half way through.... I'm also not sure if I actually got to my point

>>5241255

>atheism, in any society, comes from reflection and analysis, where the default is a religious mindset

>atheism, in any society, comes from reflection and analysis
>a religious mindset is the default

I don't know where your're from where you think that is true, but it is clearly not the civilized world.

It's the 21st century, and the 1st world is pretty much secularized. A "religious mindset" is basically laughable in this day and age, and calling it "default" warrants a chuckle.

Literally nobody cares about the atheism vs. religion "debate". The issue of eating meat/animal products is much more relevant, and the point stands that vegetarians/vegans have no argument that doesn't come down to some visceral/emotional response.

He is somewhat correct, but not fully.

It is not necessary to facilitate the suffering of animals for food. However, diets such as these are expensive, and can be too expensive for a common man to afford.

If he means that our meat industry is immoral, he is certainly correct, but he must also understand that not everyone has the financial stability to escape it.

>>5241287

>However, diets such as these are expensive

Actually, they're much less expensive

>>5241229
>How so? Every vegan I've known bases their diet on mountains of scientific evidence pointing to plants being the healthiest foods for humans and animal products being the least healthy.

Note that veganism is the complete abstention of animal products and animal exploitation. Even if it were determined that having a larger ratio of plants to animal products in one's diet is healthier, it would not make a case for no servings of meat at all. Not only that, but veganism extends to pet-owning, animal testing, pest control, and animal entertainment. A plant-based diet is not faith-based, veganism is however.

>>5241287
Can one raise chickens humanely for consumption or is that not okay?

>>5241293

>Even if it were determined that having a larger ratio of plants to animal products in one's diet is healthier, it would not make a case for no servings of meat at all.

But studies comparing vegans to vegetarians and meat eaters do. The seventh day adventists studies in particular are great for this

>>5241296

> raise chickens humanely for consumption

hu·mane
/(h)yo͞oˈmān/
adjective
adjective: humane; comparative adjective: humaner; superlative adjective: humanest
1.
having or showing compassion or benevolence.

I think by definition, killing chickens is an inhumane thing to do. The marketing for "humanely raised meat" is just marketing

>>5241284

Well, here's the world factbook to show you how religious the real world actually is

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2122.html#xx

And here's a picture

Even if you don't see most people as ACTIVELY religious, going to church and studying a bible every day, it doesn't mean they're atheistic

Back to Veggieboards, I guess.

>a black guy pansy vegetarian
Now I can say I've seen everything.

>>5241408
Ever see a black guy pansy vegetarian eat meat?

>>5241440
I've never seen one period.

>>5241408

Did you forget this guy existed?

>>5241450
Well yeah, I think most people have.

If eating animals is bad, then why are they so delicious?

Checkmate, vegans.

>>5241456

burnination

>>5241408
>>5241440
A pansy 78 vegan body builder. Jim Morris.

>>5242183
what a fgt

>>5238746
How the fuck? I'm a vegan and I spend $10-15 a week, tops. Unless you spent all your money buying faux meat and substitutes, there is absolutely no reason it could be considered "expensive"

>>5238711
>I have no capacity to think for myself but I want to win an internet debate, help me out 4chan

How do you survive?

>>5238711
>What the hell do I tell him?
You stop talking to him and ignore him completely

The only possible argument for veganism is muh environment.

Animal rights are a load of shit. I live that #topofthefoodchainlife every day, do you?

>>5242183
...He also roided his ass off

http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2002/mar/osu-scientist-questions-moral-basis-vegan-diet


Vegans are delusional.

>>5242398
You mad bro?

>>5243951

>a few thousand animals killed accidentally is just as bad as 10 billion animals killed on purpose

Now that's just a ridiculous thing to argue, and if you grow your own food you completely sidestep it.

>>5238711
Tell him humans are the fucking best and we can eat what we want because nothing can stop us. If you are so high up on the fucking food chain that you have time to feel bad for the thing that will inevitably become your dinner, your species is doing something right. We can eat it, so we do eat it, the only moral dilemma is one you create yourself.

>>5242183
for a black person that build is pathetic.

>>5238870
please go back to planet middle aged white dude

>>5238912
What is it with people on the internet using anonymity to be dickwads? I DON'T HABEEB IT

>>5239549
>Trini
Trinidad.

>vegetarian friend bothering me about eating meat
>"waah anon how could you eat the flesh of another living creature?"
>tell him that eating another creature's flesh sounds awesome as fuck
>he never bothered me about eating meat again

You can't fight them. Just say something absurd or scary and they'll shut their mouths. Vegetarians are pussies and they won't bother you if you frighten them.

>>5238711
You don't debate a vegan. Like you don't talk to a troll, it means they win.
You ARE talking to a rock OP. Give up stonemasonry.

I always say that people shove whatever they want in their body in whatever way they want. It also works with homosexuality, prostitution, etc.

>>5240825
You're speaking of rationality and emotions as if they were completely unrelated constructs. Here is a question for you. How can you defend anything as rational if you don't have an emotional preference to start with?

It is really annoying to be the partypooper who won't eat what I'm served, but I honestly believe taking a stand for those who cannot speak for themselves is worth it. In the dinner party situation I usually try to be discreet because I'm a bit shy, but someone always asks about it. You are right that a lot of animal rights advocates aren't being elegant enough about it, but animal welfare is an important issue that should be voiced.

>>5241110
It can be defended on logical grounds. I'd look into some of Peter Singer's articles if I were you (can't remember the exact titles right now).

>>5244377
For a 78 year old black man that build is pathetic.....well either that or a wrinkled up white person. White folks at 78....yeah, it shows.

>>5238723
If he has a moral objection to using animal products you can't win, the fundamental disagreement is not one you can resolve. Agree to disagree.

>>5245627
Why is animal rights such an important issue?

>>5245627
>How can you defend anything as rational if you don't have an emotional preference to start with?

Because the very definition of rational is that it makes logical sense without emotions being involved. Emotions have nothing to do with a rational argument. A rational argument is based on facts and logic rather than emotions.

The only right move when discussing this would be to not even participate. No one is going to change their opinions and best you can hope for is you punching the vegan because they believe they are ethically, and therefore they believe intellectually, superior.

>>5246048

>they believe they are ethically, and therefore they believe intellectually, superior.

Intelligence and kindness are two different things. Hitler wasn't an idiot.

>>5238910
I'm a black person. I know it's a little late, but shut the fuck up. Thank you.

Vegan arguments boil down to

>muh feelings vs muh desires

There's really no intellectual argument to be had with ethical vegans.

>>5246093

The same could be said for a lot of things. Womens' rights, racism, exploitation, child labor, etc

>>5246095
Did you just equate human suffering and inequality with animal well-being? That is why NO carnivore will ever take you seriously. We do NOT think of ourselves as being equals with animals. Period.

>>5246104

>Did you just have an opinion that isn't the same as my opinion?

Yeah. Remember back when slave owners thought it was ridiculous that some people felt that blacks shouldn't be abused and forced into slavery? History repeats itself.

And don't worry, I don't take anyone who calls themself a "carnivore" seriously eater.

>>5238711
Tell him you're sorry for being an ass and digging for excuses to harm animals for your trivial desires.

>>5238723
>and he keeps telling me it's immoral and nobody has the right to kill a living thing.
he is objectively wrong, and he murders living things everyday
he eats living things

just tell him to fuck off- the greatest thing any libshit like that can do is to make you waste your time and energy creating logical rebuttals that they will ignore. they are just trying to waste your resources

>>5246107
People will never stop eating meat. Veganism may or may not grow but I have no doubt you people will remain a minority. Changing mores or passage of time will not change that. There's nothing to be enlightened about on this issue.

>>5246093
So you're admitting you place no value on empathy?

There's really no worthwhile argument to be had with people who willingly admit to not having empathy.

If you actually don't care about anything and you think it's illogical to feel, why not just kill yourself?

>>5246129

Coincidentally, people still haven't stopped owning slaves or murdering each other. The world's fucked up, but we can strive to make it better

>>5246140
>eating meat is the same as murder
you're a faggot, kill yourself you stupid fuck

>>5246147

>killing something isn't the same as killing something!
>now I'm explosively angry because you made me think about how shitty of a person I am!

Sorry bro.

>>5246107
>is rape wrong?
>you know they once looked down upon rapists like the Nazis did to the Jews
>therefore rape will soon become the norm

People like you will never understand logic.

>>5246107
We don't have "enslave blacks" teeth, we have canine teeth.

Hundreds of thousands of years of evolution say we eat meat. There were some divergent apes that only ate roots that ended up with big flat teeth, whereas some monkeys ended up with fangs and no molar type teeth that only eat bugs and meat. If the vegans have a problem with that, tell them to buy an island and inbreed the canine teeth out of themselves. Or tell them to go to africa and protest the lions eating gazelle.

I have no problems with veganism per se, as I did it for about 6 months to lower my cholesterol, but if they have a problem with me eating meat, they are in the 0.00001% of the billions of humans that have lived on earth. If you don't like the smell of burning meat, get off the planet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HlUBke0U5A

Animals rip other animals to shreds for food all the time.
As long as the animal farming is humane and sustainable, there's nothing wrong with it. However, that's not the case for the vast majority of meat farms. That shit needs to be toned down and consequently we need to eat a lot less meat. It's not good for the majority of your diet to be meat, as evidenced by this fat as fuck current society. Most people don't even know how to eat a meal with no meat anymore, even though our ancestors and even most old people still alive today did it on the regular. Put simply, we're spoiled. But eating meat is fine in moderation.

>>5246889
That's why peta harassing hunter baffles the fuck out of me. It doesn't get more free range than wild.

Alright OP? Only alright? Not even knowing meat is actually beneficial, and really an amazing great thing. You're almost as stupid as vegans.

>>5246881

>We don't have "enslave blacks" teeth, we have canine teeth.

The canine argument is one of the stupidest arguments to make. No, your tiny nubs are not perfect for ripping the flesh off of bones, even deer have canines bigger than yours, as do many other herbivores, because canines do not signify a meat-eater.

>>5246889

>Animals rip other animals to shreds for food all the time.

You're welcome to use that kind of logic as long as you accept all the baggage that comes with it. When you say that, you don't get to just leave it at "one animal kills another for food, so I can too." You're also saying that everything animals do to each other, you should do too, which is limitless in the immoralities you can justify to yourself

>As long as the animal farming is humane

Look up what the word humane means. It doesn't involve killing things. "Humanely raised" is a marketing term

>>5246904

>meat is actually beneficial, and really an amazing great thing

>>5246906

>even deer have canines bigger than yours

No they don't. Go fuck yourself.

>>5246881

>There were some divergent apes that only ate roots that ended up with big flat teeth

I guess gorillas are carnivores then

>>5246909

>>5246906
>The canine argument is one of the stupidest arguments to make. No, your tiny nubs are not perfect for ripping the flesh off of bones, even deer have canines bigger than yours, as do many other herbivores, because canines do not signify a meat-eater.

Have you ever taken an anthropology course, even a 101? The human brain increased in size thanks to meat-eating. The corollary of that is that we got better at the use of tools to process animal carcasses for meat, that's our adaptive niche. Using your logic, we shouldn't run because we're bipedal.

>>5246923

> The human brain increased in size thanks to meat-eating.

*starch-eating

>>5246906
>You're welcome to use that kind of logic as long as you accept all the baggage that comes with it. When you say that, you don't get to just leave it at "one animal kills another for food, so I can too." You're also saying that everything animals do to each other, you should do too, which is limitless in the immoralities you can justify to yourself

...but we are adapted to kill and eat animals just like other predatory animals. We can digest the meat, we create weapons to kill the animals, we can track them using our developed brains to recognize footprints, droppings, markings etc., we can see and have spatial awareness across a vast space so we can see our prey far away, and we get an adrenaline rush when we close in on our prey.

We are predators and humanity would not have survived if we were not adapted to eating meat, whether you like it or not. What "immoralities" are you referring to? Dung beetles and flies eating feces? Well, considering the fact that those of us who eat feces tend to vomit and/or get diseases, I'd say we are not well adapted to that behavior.

>>5246925
Plants formed the majority of our calories, but meat was necessary for the growing of the brain. A single serving of meat can provide all of the essential amino acids you need while the same can't be said of any single serving of plants. Meat also contained saturated fat that helped with the development of the nervous system; not forgetting we also absorb more iron from meat than from plants. Finally, it's recommended by pediatricians that growing children be fed at least 2 to 3 servings of meat because of their need for good sources of iron and protein during their growing period.

I'm not saying a vegan or vegetarian diet is wrong, but you're being patently false if you say we weren't designed to eat meat as well.

>>5245886
Because we are causing billions of animals unnecessary pain for the sake of convenience. It doesn't add up. I'm not against eating meat (or killing), but I am against treating others badly while they're alive. Most people would agree to this, but most people don't know/care to know what happens in the meat industry. It's important to inform the public and urge farmers to take actions against animal abuse.

>>5245893
Rationality is a normative concept. Facts and logic can never make for a rational action. What you need is an emotional component that drives you. If I don't have a preference for any outcome, then any action follows logically. If I do have a preference, I can start evaluating which actions are more rational to meet my goal. Do you follow?

>>5246925
>>5246934
See further:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121004093508.htm

>The two-inch skull fragment was found at the famed Olduvai Gorge in northern Tanzania, a site that for decades has yielded numerous clues into the evolution of modern humans and is sometimes called `the cradle of mankind.'
>The fragment belonged to a 2-year-old child and showed signs of porotic hyperostosis associated with anemia. According to the study, the condition was likely caused by a diet suddenly lacking in meat.
>"The presence of anemia-induced porotic hyperostosis…indicates indirectly that by at least the early Pleistocene meat had become so essential to proper hominin functioning that its paucity or lack led to deleterious pathological conditions," the study said.
>Musiba said the evidence showed that the juvenile's diet was deficient in vitamin B12 and B9. Meat seems to have been cut off during the weaning process.
>"He was not getting the proper nutrients and probably died of malnutrition," he said.

>>5246929
You're using a faulty argument. Just because something is a certain way doesn't mean it has to be that way. For example, the patriarchy had quite a good grip on women's rights for some time (and still does in many places today). One could argue that the strongest should prevail, and men are indeed stronger. However, we don't think like that anymore because it doesn't have to be like that. My father and brother are stronger than me, that doesn't mean they have to control me.

As a parallel, humans can eat meat. Humans have eaten meat for quite some time. But now we have easy access to alternatives, and there are good arguments to use them (more sustainable, less harm done, healthier compared to diets with too much meat).

>>5246940
There are so many things wrong with what you just said, I don't even know where to start. If you have a problem with males being larger, take it up with every species of animal that has larger males. Or go argue with dogs and tell them to eat vegetables because their jaws are meant to eat meat.

>You're using a faulty argument. Just because something is a certain way doesn't mean it has to be that way.

Yes it does. That's like saying "just because that plane has wings doesn't mean it needs to fly." Canine teeth are for tearing apart meat. Feline taste buds taste ATP instead of sugar because that is what gives them nutrition. Give a room full of cats vegetables and watch them die and then climb off your vegan throne.

>>5246940
>patriarchy
Go back to tumblr faggot.

>>5246929

I wouldn't say we haven't adapted to eat meat in any way, but the relatively small amount of time we've been eating meat (with regularity atleast) combined with our biological history as fruit eaters and compounding evidence in the form of human studies on diet leads me to believe that we adapted to eat meat in times of food scarcity. It's a great ability to be able to make use of any food source, but obviously some food sources are better than others, and it seems meat is a terrible option for long-term diets and was only meant to serve as a plan B when fruits and such weren't available since it's better to eat something unhealthy than to starve to death

>>5246934

>A single serving of meat can provide all of the essential amino acids you need while the same can't be said of any single serving of plants
> Meat also contained saturated fat that helped with the development of the nervous system

I don't know why you would think these would have an effect on human brain growth. You couldn't take a rabbit and start feeding it meat and see it get smarter, so why would that work for us when we were still frugivores? A more likely explanation is that an abundance of calories/glucose gained from eating starchy underground tumors led to brain growth. We developed extra amylase in our mouth and gut specifically to digest starch.

>>5246939

>deficient in B12 and B9

B12 outside of modern society is one of the hardest vitamins to become deficient in since it doesn't come FROM plants or meat but bacteria that's on every food and in every water supply. B9 is folate, which is abundant in plant foods and lacking in meat. This isn't an example of a child not thriving on a meatless diet, this is one random case of a kid who died of malnutrition due to a general lack of food.

I have articles too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6983330.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/magazine/09starch.html?_r=2&

>>5246929

I wouldn't say we haven't adapted to eat meat in any way, but the relatively small amount of time we've been eating meat (with regularity atleast) combined with our biological history as fruit eaters and compounding evidence in the form of human studies on diet leads me to believe that we adapted to eat meat in times of food scarcity. It's a great ability to be able to make use of any food source, but obviously some food sources are better than others, and it seems meat is a terrible option for long-term diets and was only meant to serve as a plan B when fruits and such weren't available since it's better to eat something unhealthy than to starve to death

>>5246934

>A single serving of meat can provide all of the essential amino acids you need while the same can't be said of any single serving of plants
> Meat also contained saturated fat that helped with the development of the nervous system

I don't know why you would think these would have an effect on human brain growth. You couldn't take a rabbit and start feeding it meat and see it get smarter, so why would that work for us when we were still frugivores? A more likely explanation is that an abundance of calories/glucose gained from eating starchy underground tubers led to brain growth. We developed extra amylase in our mouth and gut specifically to digest starch.

>>5246939

>deficient in B12 and B9

B12 outside of modern society is one of the hardest vitamins to become deficient in since it doesn't come FROM plants or meat but bacteria that's on every food and in every water supply. B9 is folate, which is abundant in plant foods and lacking in meat. This isn't an example of a child not thriving on a meatless diet, this is one random case of a kid who died of malnutrition due to a general lack of food.

I have articles too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6983330.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/magazine/09starch.html?_r=2&

>>5246955

>Canine teeth are for tearing apart meat

http://freefromharm.org/photo-galleries/9-reasons-your-canine-teeth-dont-make-you-a-meat-eater/

>>5247710
Yeah, I hate polysyllabic book words too.

Why does everyone need to debate that shit?
Luckily I've never met a vegan who tried to make me feel bad for eating meat. They were all pretty much just saying "yo, I don't eat meat or animal products and I don't care what you eat". I never felt the need to debate them. It's their decision and it has no impact on me.

Maybe I was just lucky with these people.
I haven't yet met one of these angry femnazis either.

Also, there's no good reason to defend eating meat except the taste. I love meat but the meat industry is fucked up.

>>5247991
>Luckily I've never met a vegan who tried to make me feel bad for eating meat. They were all pretty much just saying "yo, I don't eat meat or animal products and I don't care what you eat". I never felt the need to debate them. It's their decision and it has no impact on me.
>Maybe I was just lucky with these people.
>I haven't yet met one of these angry femnazis either.
It's because people IRL act differently than people on 4chan or television.

It's sad that people base their opinions on what they read on 4chan. Or think that the vegan threads on /ck/ are actually genuine and started by vegans.

>>5247970
>freefromharm.org
>because...reasons

>>5247999

>several herbivores that also have canines, much better than ours
>"f-fuck you... f-fucking peta bullshit.... d-doesn't count..."

>>5248006
lol I never understood the whole canine "argument".

If anything, our shitty canines suggest vestigiality and an adaptation to a non-meat diet. I don't believe this, but it makes more sense than the "hurrr canines mean we are carnivores" thing.

>>5248012

come on bro, look at these massive canines. they could rip an elephant apart!

>>5239282
Peanut butter has traces of bugs in it.

>>5248012
http://www.pbs.org/your-inner-fish/watch/

smaller canines may have something to do with humans cooking meat for many generations

the book goes into much greater detail than the clip does

>>5248034
There is evidence of jaw muscle size decreasing due to eating a diet based on cooked (especially processed) foods.

I am not aware of fossil evidence showing pre-fire humans having larger canines.

>>5238711

>hurr durr we have the teeth to eat meat
>hurr durr that's means that we should eat meat

So, does having 2 fists means I we should beat each other to death?

That we CAN do something doesn't mean we SHOULD do it

>>5248046
You have a brain, and most likely, two eyes, and two hands, with all your digits intact.

You had no reason to fucking type like that.

While you shouldn't always do something just because you can, you CAN sound intelligent, and SHOULD have used your fucking brain and other gifts to not post like an underage.

In other news. Meat is delicious. Fuck vegans.

>>5248076
>like an underage.
an underage what?

>In other news. Meat is delicious. Fuck vegans.
Speaking of underaged...

Meat might not be Necessary, but neither is alcohol, but people would continue to make boyh because there is demand and people like it.

We don't need big canines because we don't lunge at animals face-first and rip into their flesh like most other predators, you fucktards. We hunt and slice meat with weapons and tools. Why would we need big canines, dipshits?
Intellectual bankruptcy ITT, I tell you...

OP, just show him this. Wear a shirt with lots of animals on it.

>>5238711
Why would it not be OK to eat meat?
Animals eat meat.

People are animals.

We (modern civilized people) don't eat other humans because murdering other people is demonstrably evil, and you know, prions.

>>5238711
ask if he's gotten any shots at the doctor's office.

some shots contain mouse brain.

>>5248648
I know it is difficult for you ultra-cool apathetic fedoras to understand, but sometimes people conceive that it is impossible to be perfect and 100% dogmatic and are satisfied with trying their best. In this case, minimizing how their life negatively impacts animals.

>>5238711

>>5248606
Prions is why you don't eat nervous tissue, eating muscle meat is okay.

>>5248837
>prions is

>>5248660
But it's basically for you a matter of convenience. On the one hand, you want to claim moral superiority under the guise of veganism, on the other hand you want to maintain the great conveniences of our modern lfiestyle, which are predominantly based upon various animal-derived products. You're not willing to give up the convenience for the sake of your ideology.

If you really wanted to be a vegan, you'd live in a mud-hut in the middle of fucking nowhere, with no modern gadgets and conveniences, growing your own food and eating it.

But that's not a sacrifice you're willing to make. This in itself is reasonable; what's unreasonable is maintaining your moral high-horse while doing it.

>>5248824
Shut up bitch.

>>5248824
Anno is a hack.

>>5246121
>libshit
aaand that's when your post became irrelevant.

>>5248883

>This in itself is reasonable; what's unreasonable is maintaining your moral high-horse while doing it.

What's unreasonable is you pretending someone has no moral superiority over you because they don't meet the standards you set in place. You make no effort yourself, but then criticize people who do make an effort for not making the most extensive, life-altering effort possible. Until you atleast do what they do, they're quite welcome to sit on that horse.

>>5240556
>It's proteins, not protiens

It's not.

>>5247960
>I don't know why you would think these would have an effect on human brain growth.

Because as I said meats provide essential amino acids more efficiently than plant matter, this is key for the developing brain. You're being specious when you confuse calories with nutrients. I could eat several pounds of barley and still die from malnutrition. This fact is more important when you're weaning a child.

>You couldn't take a rabbit and start feeding it meat and see it get smarter

You vegans really do sound like creationists when they ask why chimpanzees haven't evolved into humans by now.

>B12 outside of modern society is one of the hardest vitamins to become deficient in since it doesn't come FROM plants or meat but bacteria that's on every food and in every water supply.

Ignoring the article, huh? The child was deficient in nutrients, which included iron. I don't know if you've ever raised a child, but they require an enormous amount of rich foods, not just plant matter. We happen to absorb iron better from meat than plants, that's the reason it's recommended to feed children several servings of meat or fish. That and it also has a variety of essential amino acids.

Do I need to keep repeating myself?

>>5247960
>>5251293
>it doesn't come FROM plants or meat but bacteria that's on every food and in every water supply

Absolutely retarded.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/
http://www.mckinley.illinois.edu/handouts/vitamin_b12/vitamin_b12.htm
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.php

B12 is only found in herbivores, it originates from the bacteria inside their gut. Saying the child died because he/she didn't eat enough plants is lie.

>Tempeh, miso, sea vegetables, and other plant foods are sometimes reported to contain vitamin B12. These products, however, are not reliable sources of the vitamin.
>Very small amounts of vitamin B12 have been found in plants grown in soil treated with manure (8). It is not clear whether this vitamin B12 is the active form or the inactive analogue. In any case, the amounts are so small that more than 23 cups of organically grown spinach would have to be eaten every day in order to meet the adult RDA for vitamin B12
>It was once thought that tempeh, miso, and sea vegetables could provide B12. However, these foods do not contain the active forms of the vitamin. Instead, they contain inactive forms, which may actually interfere with B12 absorption and metabolism.