/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Caring about dining etiquette that has no real use is so 1975.

>>5004002
Most Americans don't know how to properly handle fork and knife simultaneously. This is my experience after having lived in southern USA for a year.

>Giving a crap about how people handle utensils.
> In 2013
Seriouly OP?

>>5004002
It's just something most people weren't taught, if their parents were taught it's something that fell by the wayside when both parents had to work and kiddo was letting himself into his house every afternoon to watch TV alone.

When I tried to tell my husband he was holding his silverware wrong he was like
>What is there like a class where they teach you to do this stuff?
He said it all sarcastically, and I was like YES THERE FUCKING IS!!

>>5004015
Tennessee here. Where you from, auslander?

>>5004027
show titties

>>5004026
>>5004009
>not caring about being a decent human being

This is a major problem for the US right now. It's sad that it has come to this.

>>5004009

Sure it does. Others judge you by how you behave when you eat. When you do something like hold your utensils in the wrong hand or with the wrong grip then people start to wonder just what else you do incorrectly. When I see someone switch their knife and fork to cut something up then switch back it tells me that they tend to give up when something is difficult. It's a sign of laziness--not doing the job right. It also suggests their manual dexterity is poor enough that they find it necessary to switch hands. Such a person should not be trusted with any kind of job that requires perfection or precision.

>>5004015
Agreed. And it's not limited to Americans either.

>>5004038
>And it's not limited to Americans either.

They are the root of the problem though

>>5004033
>Being a decent human being is knowing how to use eating utensils.
>Not showing good will to your fellow man.
Come on, anon...

>>5004041

Root of the problem? Nah, many Americans have shit table manners but I doubt they caused the problem in other countries. IMHO Asians (and that includes India/Pakistan/etc) are much worse about poor table manners. Eastern Europe is bad too. Western Europe tends to be much better.

>>5004057
>behaving like animals is OKAY

Welp

>>5004058
American media and "culture" (see >>5004057 ) made it acceptable in their own country and here as well. They very much are the cause of it.

>>5004058
>IMHO Asians (and that includes India/Pakistan/etc) are much worse about poor table manners.


Hm, I wonder if it's because they have different table manners.

hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

>>5004028
Germany.

Most people I've watched had problems holding the knife in particular. I am not from a snobby family but damnit, even adults looked like kindergardeners constantly switching hands, having to use their fingers to scoop up food, tilting the plate, pushing food over the edge of the plate.

>>5004063
>implying there is a set way of using utensils.
>not realizing its all arbitrary.

>>5004038
>hold your utensils in the wrong hand or with the wrong grip
Wrong is subjective.

>>5004002
are they the kind of tards that hold a pen like this? that shit makes me so fucking pissed off

I'm Croatian and I do care a lot about proper dining/eating etiquette. Just like this anon said >>5004038 by the way someone eats you can clearly tell a lot about them.

A related story. The other day I went for a quick pizza in an average restaurant. There was a couple from South Korea sitting at the table left of me. The waiter brought utensils for them but one fork was a bit smaller than the other one (probably from a different set). The couple protested and wanted the same forks for both of them.

>>5004038
>Making assumptions about someone based on how they use their utensils.
This kind shit need to die.

>>5004110
Were you not taught any table manners, for fucks sake?

>>5004009
>>5004026
I bet you're not even landed gentry.

>>5004112
Yeah, until I realized its all arbitrary and useless nonsense.

>>5004112
>he still eats at a table
This isn't the 1950s anymore, grandma.

>>5004002
Because it doesn't fucking matter and no one fucking cares.

correct me if that's wrong, but I've heard Americans cut all their food in the beginning, then put the knife away, switch the fork to the other hand and eat using only the fork.

>>5004121
>>5004122
>>5004124
Do you realize that manners are one of the things that separates us from animals ?

>all these American posters being proud of their ignorance

>>5004130
Do you realize that the concept of what is good manners and what is not is completely arbitrary.

>>5004130
I thought it was our abstract thought and superior ability to rationalize but okay.

>>5004129

heard this too.
multitasking 2/10.

>>5004009
>>5004026
>>5004057
>>5004078
>>5004110
>>5004121
>>5004124
>>5004130
PROWD MURIKANS

>>5004137
Do you realize that if you put it that way we can say that what is good and what is evil is also completely arbitrary.

>>5004132
> Not caring for arbitrary drivel = ignorance
Maximum fail logic.

>>5004145
>damage control

>>5004132
I do what is most effective and easy for me, not how someone a hundred years ago decided it should be done.

You're the ignorant one because you're incapable of making your own, independent decisions, and instead need to be told how to do something.

>>5004142
We could, but good and evil have moral implications, table manners don't.
Also in different times and cultures even the perceptance of "good and evil" was way different from today.

>>5004152

>>not knowing how to eat properly
>>independent decision

you are doing it right

>>5004152
>I stopped wiping my ass because nobody is going to tell me how to maintain personal hygiene

>>5004152
So... eating has to be effective to make it worthwhile for you? Giving off the impression of being a lazy slob who doesn't care that he's portraying childlike behavior like something desirable is cool? This is a child's thinking.

>>5004152
Ain't you a special snowflake

>>5004149
> No counter-argument against my point.

>>5004157
Not knowing; and knowing, but deciding not to because I have a better alternative are not the same.

>>5004161
Personal hygiene and how to hold an eating utensil is comparing apples to oranges.

>>5004157
> Implying there is a set way of eating properly.
> "Eating properly" is different from culture to culture.
Pick one anon.

>behave like a nigger at the table
>I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THIS

Why do Americans always straight go for the "MUH FREEDOMZ" argument? This doesn't have anything to do with your freedom, we're talking about behaving like a civil person. If you're not a NEET with no family, you're most likely to have food with other people at the table. They might be disgusted by your sloppy way of shoveling food into your mouth.

>hurrrr i dun care what others thinka me
>hurrr why so judgemental
>hurrr leave me be

>>5004167
I do agree it would be cool to eat like animals everywhere we can but imagine what would that look like.
Imagine no rules, nothing in restaurants.
How would that look like ?
The waiters throwing food into your mouth and you applauding like a seal ?

>>5004167
Wouldn't it be a better alternative to eat out of a trough?

>>5004179
Murika...

>>5004182
>yfw families actually do this in Minnesota

>>5004176
>Hurr your being uncivil because your not holding your fork at the right angle.

>>5004191
Yeah, right, why even follow generally accepted standards when you can define your own? Again, childlike behavior. How often do you eat Ramen every week?

>>5004182
Bowls are already just small, round troughs.

>>5004191
Exactly.
What don't you understand ?
That behaviour is exactly what separates normal people from degenerates like you.

>>5004199
Why even use utensils at all these days when we have a better alternative?

Every culture in this world follows a set way to eat, and this way is seen as a civilized way of eating - eating in another way is then seen as a rude and uncivilized way.

Muricans dont care about this set way of eating.
>>lol no culture

>>5004195
>Getting uppity about how someone holds his fork.
>Not childish
Think for yourself anon.

>>5004210

Where I grew up you wouldn't be allowed to sit at a table with adults if you can not hold a fork properly.

>>5004204
Your ad hominem is showing anon...

>>5004038
But people can only judge me if they themselves know hot to properly use utensils and the vast majority assuredly do not.

>>5004216
And now you're scarred for life, and you get upset when you see someone else doing something that your mommy and daddy wouldn't let you do as a kid.

Explains everything.

>>5004030
PLS RESPOND

>>5004216
What, you want a medal?

>>5004232
A statue might work with pigeons crapping all over it and drunk kids puking on it.

Muh Dik!

>>5004206
>whyboner.jpg

>>5004098
I hold pens with that same grip, but with the tip between my index and middle finger. I developed the habit in kindergarten and now the "correct" way feels really awkward to me. Though with the grip I use I end up squeezing the shit out of the pen so my hand gets tired really fast.

I just realized I also hold my fork the same way.

>>5004216
>NO ANON, DON'T HOLD YOUR FORK LIKE THAT OR BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN!

>NO ANON, DON'T GO INTO THE CLOSET BECAUSE THERE ARE MONSTERS IN THERE!

Sounds shockingly similar, doesn't it?

Now tell me who's the childish one.

>>5004249
>NO ANON DONT SHOOT YOURSELF OR YOU MIGHT DIE

You may or may not die, but you'll definitely look retarded in the process.

>>5004249

Not the same at all.

One is conditioning a child to be a civilized human being. The other is just homophobic.

>>5004264
>conditioning
That's a funny word for abuse.

>>5004249

I'm not >>5004195 .

>>5004229
I just don't get how you guys didn't get tought how to eat.

>>5004232
Nope.


It's a culture thing where I live. You don't get accepted if you can not eat like a normal adult, because something in your edcuation went wrong.

>>5004264
>anyone that disagrees with homosexual marrage
>scared of them
>phobe
>word of the day for anyone that disagrees with opinion

>>5004266

Children are like blank canvases. You have to mold them a little or else they'll grow up to be delinquents.

>>5004272
Oh I know how to eat.
1. Grab a fork.
2. Stab food.
3. Put in mouth.
As long as you don't make a mess, making this anymore complicated in unnecessary and stupid.

>>5004142
You're right, what's good and what's evil IS completely arbitrary.

>>5004272
You'll learn in later life, live your own life nobody is going to live it for you or give a fuck when spun through.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/pearlhbr/ph-ja1.htm


Are you even old enough to post on these boards?

>>5004299
Yuropoors can't understand that, and they have to complicate it with silly ritual and "tradition".

>>5004299
*is*

>>5004142
>>5004300
Lets stay on topic plz...

>>5004176
No one in this thread has made that argument.

>>5004300
Keep believing that, and there are only two parties to vote for and they're the ones picking the choices for you!!!!

HAHAHAHA IDIOT... You'll learn.

>>5004262
>Equating shooting yourself to not holding a fork properly.

Nigga you just went full retard.

>>5004272
you know you're gonna die one day, and nobody is going to hold you accountable for how you held your silverware when you ate, and i doubt that's going to be one of the last things on your mind as you pass on as well. there's no need to be so pretentious especially if you're not eating in a nice restaurant.

>>5004307
We can only agree to disagree.
Amerishits are saying dining etiquette isn't important while eurofags are saying it is.
There isn't any conclusion really.
In Europe you're not civilised and you're considered a degenerate if you aren't familiar with dining etiquette, while in the USA I guess it isn't important at all.

test

>>5004272
>It's a culture thing where I live. You don't get accepted if you can not eat like a normal adult, because something in your edcuation went wrong.

Okay, if that's important in your culture, fine. I'm not sure why you can't seem to get it through your head that it's not important everywhere.

People in the US do care about table manners. If you're making disgusting noises, shoveling food in your face, using your hands outside certain foods, etc. people will think you have poor manners. However the exact manner in which you hold your utensils is not really important to anyone here.

>>5004326

Holding a knife and fork properly is just the basics of table manners.

>>5004316
Wow, you're so wise and worldly. I hope one day I can be as wise as you are anon.

>>5004319

it's not that important, it's common to know how to eat with a fork and knife. nobody gives a shit about it, because everybody knows how to use it.

>>5004327
Where you live maybe. Not everywhere.

>>5004002
>mfw you can google examples of utensils etiquette

Takes a few minutes to learn. Just like kindness, it costs you nothing.

>>5004327
in your culture. that's the key part.
believe it or not, not everyone cares about your culture. personally i don't even care to know where you live, because it's that unimportant to me. you shouldn't be upset by that because my opinion should really mean nothing to you either.
i mean why should i care about your culture when i'm not intending to be a part of it? as far as i care to think of it, i think you're culture is pretentious and sad, but that's just my opinion. nothing more, nothing less.

>>5004340
your culture* lol

I'm going to share another story with you, maybe we can come to a conclusion easily.

A relative of mine was working on a cruise ship as a photographer in the gold days of cruise ships.
Whenever they had american guests they earned a lot of money because americans didn't have any problems with them being photographed during lunch/dinner, while europeans were just disgusted and told them to fuck off and let them eat in peace.

It's amusing how butthurt americans turn when they are confrontated with the truth that they can not eat.

>>5004353
Well it's obvious we can eat. Have you seen our obesity numbers?
Obviously you're just baiting because you're lonely, so I'll take the bait so you don't kill yourself today. I hope your life gets better though.

>>5004353
>they can not eat.
Then how did we get so fat?

Checkmate, yuropoors.

>>5004353
>>5004359
>>5004362
We should consider dining etiquette while comparing obesity numbers.
Europeans usually eat slower, while americans eat faster. There must be some sort of a study on that field.

>>5004367

I think it's because Yuropoors make a ritual out of eating while most of my fellow americans just CONSUME their food.

>>5004367
I think it has more to do with the amount of calories we consume, not the speed at which we consume those calories. Plus how common it is for some families to eat fast food 2-3 a day, and the fact that for so long we were pushed to consume tons of grains and vegetables and avoid fatty meats because "fat makes you fat." I swear it's criminal how much they lied to us as children about what was healthy and what wasn't.

>>5004101
You're special and need the special yellow short bus

>>5004376
I LOVE TO CONSUME, Since I'm an American and all of our streets are paved with gold, I just snort it up like the copious amounts of cocaine available everywhere.

What kind of shithole nation to live in? Your jealously preceeds you.

>>5004393

New Jersey...

Different cultures have different expectations regarding dining etiquette. Some cultures are super strict, others aren't. The US isn't. Here, unless you're eating with a very old-fashioned family, no one is going to notice if you're holding your fork properly. They might notice if you're holding it obscenely wrong, or if you're just generally being disgusting at the dinner table, but the nuances of European etiquette are largely neither taught nor valued here.

>>5004406

Is it true that you American first cut everything in little pieces and then start eating only with a fork?
Just want to have this confirmed.

So can you guys post a diagram or image of the proper way to use a knife and fork?

>>5004418
http://whatscookingamerica.net/Menu/DiningEtiquetteGuide.htm

yes google can

>>5004422
>Shish-kabob:
>Appetizers: Shish kebab are eaten directly from the skewer only if they are served as an appetizer.
>Dinner Entree: Hold the tip of the shish-kabob in one hand and use the dinner fork to remove the pieces with the other. When all the food has been removed from the stick, place the emptied skewer on the edge of your plate. Always eat the meat with your utensils.
[pretentiousness intensifies]

>>5004415
American utensil etiquette is to hold the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left hand when you're cutting something, but to only ever bring the food to your mouth with the right hand, so you cut something, put down the knife, and then switch the fork to the right hand. Since switching back and forth for every single bite is fussy, a lot of people just cut stuff up several bites in advance.

So basically yes, it's true.

>>5004428
>When you are finished with a course, place your utensils (silverware) used on your place in the 4:20 position.

I'm a Eurofag and this is fucked up even for us.

>>5004450
>place your utensils (silverware) used on your place in the 4:20 position.
And then blaze it, faggot.

>>5004422
> How to use napkins:
>don't use them, instead put them on your lap and put them back on the table when you're finished eating, but don't use them
> You must not never expect your gift to be served at the dinner party.
>we grammar now
>Tips can vary from 15% to 25%.
>giving 15% for shit service ever

>>5004447
>forky-switchy is proper American etiquette
No it isn't.

>>5004460
>In the American style, also called the zig-zag method or fork switching, the knife is initially held in the right hand and the fork in the left. Holding food to the plate with the fork tines-down, a single bite-sized piece is cut with the knife. The knife is then set down on the plate, the fork transferred from the left hand to the right hand, and the food is brought to the mouth for consumption. The fork is then transferred back to the left hand and the knife is picked up with the right.
I see you've played forky-switchy before.

>>5004466
I wasn't following the thread. Is there a link that makes this claim somewhere?

>>5004460
Not a single person I know actually does that idiotic fork switching thing. Everyone in my family holds the fork in their dominant hand and cuts with the other, then brings the food directly to their mouth without any pointless hand swapping. I have no idea who decided that it was "proper" to swap hands between cutting and eating, but it was probably the same guy who put the word "fancy" on the ketchup packet.

>>5004481
> the same guy who put the word "fancy" on the ketchup packet

You mean the United States Department of Agriculture taught people to switch hands when eating?

>>5004450
Where are you from?
That's exactly how we do it here when we are finished

>>5004481
Look, I like you guys (Americans, I mean), but I ridicule you when appropriate. You guys ridicule my culture when appropriate, too. It's gentle, good-natured ribbing. As a friend to Murrica, I also come to your defense. Been living in the US quite a while now. I've never seen anyone forky-switchy without being ridiculed for it by other Americans. It's something, as I understand it, done by the extreme lower classes, like mouth-breathing and spitting in public.

> mfw a few people I know forky-switchy to the max and cut all their food into bite-sized pieces before using the fork in the right hand to eat all the things
> mfw they complain about how cold everything is

No shit, you spent the first 2 minutes of your meal mangling your plate, and exposed as much surface area as you could for heat to escape. What's wrong with you?

>>5004505
>>5004466
>mfw other people ITT are calling it 'forky-switchy' after I called it that

And I was thinking of that Australian ep of the Simpsons as I typed up 'forky-switchy,' too.

>>5004520

That's why I went with it. The reference was evident and it is a convenient neologism to stand-in for 'that thing people do when they switch the hands they hold their cutlery in all the time'.

>>5004497
>get taught this growing up in US
>this is stupid, I'm not going to do it, it makes no sense
>no one cares

GOB BLESS 'MURICA

>>5004539
Still, I've never seen an American forky-switchy without being ridiculed by other Americans for being of poor class.

>>5004457
>more polite to never use your napkin than to use it
what

Also, forky-switchy isn't just limited to extreme lower classes. I used to do it too before I realized how inefficient it was, and I'm middle class/upper middle class (family earned 50-80,000$ a year while I was a kid)

>>5004578
>implying class has to do with income
Oh, America. It's like you've never heard of pauvreté gentil/genteel poverty.
A rap star will have tonnes of money, but no class.

>mfw people still arguing about switching hands with fork and knife
>mfw the etiquette link posted earlier says exactly that

>American Style: Knife in right hand, fork in left hand holding food. After a few bite-sized pieces of food are cut, place knife on edge of plate with blades facing in. Eat food by switching fork to right hand (unless you are left handed). A left hand, arm or elbow on the table is bad manners.

>Continental/European Style: Knife in right hand, fork in left hand. Eat food with fork still in left hand. The difference is that you don't switch hands-you eat with your fork in your left hand, with the prongs curving downward. Both utensils are kept in your hands with the tines pointed down throughout the entire eating process. If you take a drink, you do not just put your knife down, you put both utensils down into the resting position: cross the fork over the knife.

>>5004578
>well under $100K annual income
>upper middle class
>laughinglowergentry.png

>>5004002
Given that it's Thanksgiving why weren't you told to be polite? With a lot of people, you don't have to agree with everyone, just be yourself.

A punk like you would let it stew up to post on 4c instead of just saying it's water under the bridge. Get blazed and have a drink, why are you criticizing everyone?

>>5004588
Naw I really don't keep track of niggers and their attempts at french. It's not in my interest.

I don't feel the need to suckup to niggers. Maybe you do hence your post.

>>5004593
The U.S. median household income is about 50,000, and I figured having over 50% more than the median would qualify as "upper middle." It's really regional though. Median household income for the town I went to high school in was about 40,000, so I'd be relatively "upper" compared to that. My mom grew up in a part of New Jersey where 80,000/year is chump change. She thought it was funny how someone making 100k/year was considered "rich", when that would be about average where she grew up.

>>5004588
With the exception of celebrities/sports stars/etc who come from very poor backgrounds and end up very rich, class is much more tied to income in America than it is in Europe.

>>5004606
Still not upper middle class, you know. A married couple of two schoolteachers earn more than your meager household income, and they're not well-paid at all. You have a very, very poor idea of what is upper middle class. I bet your parents don't even hold professional degrees.

>>5004612
My mom has a bachelor's degree and my dad has a master's.

Also two schoolteachers in the place I grew up would be lucky to pull in 65,000 combined. Like I said, it's regional.

>>5004606
150k is about median, I can do that in my sleep.

Dollars aren't what they used to be.

That's called devaluation and inflation and union influcences.

>>5004612
>Not having a mom with no college degree but ended up marrying her boss
>Not having a stepdaddy who owns a multi-million dollar company.

You think Academia is the way to get bank?
Pathetic. I bet your children will have to worry about getting a job to support their families in the future.

>>5004632
But they're government empoyees with "tenure" they pretty much can't be fired. I don't give a shit about your local school teacers, if you gave a shit about your children, you'd have them in private school and wouldn't be on 4c whining like a cunt.

The really funny thing is that these "anon" hacker types not only think I give a flying fuck about their bullshit, but think that I give a flying fuck about their agenda. They can't touch me.

Please try...

>>5004632
Wow. You're either woefully young and know nothing or are not remotely upper middle class. A master, other than MBA or research degree, is not a professional degree. A bachelor is never a professional degree.
In the US, upper middle class is synoptic with holding a professional degree. Unless one of your parents holds a doctorate or both hold masters (such as in education or nursing), it is unlikely you are upper middle class. You've likely have never even set foot at a country club.

>>5004636
You're deluded if you think 150k is median. I just looked this up for one of my previous posts. http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html - the real median income is about 53,000.

>>5004643
I didn't bring up schoolteachers to complain about their low pay, >>5004612 used schoolteachers as an example of a low-paying career that supposedly would be making far more than 80,000 a year.

I'm pretty sure I'm being trolled at this point, but since I originally posted something for euros unfamiliar with American culture I figure I might as well clear up some misconceptions about American wealth

>>5004652
>at a country club

As a child of a PhD and a JD, I laugh at your backwards ideas of class.

>>5004637
Again, class is not about income, per se, but income can be used as an estimate of class. It's not always accurate, but it helps.

>>5004661
Rather than discuss cooking or food, we discuss how rich and educated our parents supposedy are. No.

>>5004661
What else is there to do in the middle of nowhere but go golfing?

>>5004652
I'm aware that bachelor's degrees/most master's degrees aren't professional. I wasn't stating my parents' degrees to refute what that anon was saying, I was just supplying information. It's relevant because the average American doesn't have bachelor's or master's degrees, and my parents were able to earn more money than the median because they are more educated.

>>5004663
I'm not talking about richness or income I'm talking about wealth.
You may be "upper middle class" but class and richness are temporary statuses.

If your legacy can't hold up generations after you, you have no real place to put yourself higher than the people who are middle class, or lower middle class.
No new use of country clubs or the like will change that.

>table manners so arbitrary why should I follow ima a strong independent man who does what he want

You dumb pig dress code is arbitrary as fuck too but I bet you dont show up at a fancy dinner with a sweater and a grease stained tshirt. You are one disgusting piece of shit stop trying to make retarded behaivour sound cool and just learn some manners. Ffs its not even hard

>>5004676
This.
People like that have no self respect.

>>5004669

I hear they like to shoot guns at animals when they get bored of driving around giant lawns in electric carts.

>muh illusion of self reliance

>>5004673
I'm not the one claiming to be upper middle class. Someone whose parents don't even have professional degrees and don't even have a combined income in the top 25% of earning in the US is claiming to be upper middle class.
I'm just pointing out that by no accounts could the combination of both of those facts result in an upper middle class family.

>>5004494
Usually it is considered polite or dining etiquette to just place your utensils(besteck) on the plate in any way but they must be facing the same direction. Even though when I think about it now I usually put them at 4:20 or 8:40
I'm from Croatia.

This is how I eat my food.

>>5004717
His household income is less than ours and we're a dirty chink family

>upper middle class

toplel

>>5004717
Ah but it is possible for these things, just not common or really wanted.
"Gifted" money is not considered income.
The combination of those things wouldn't result in an upper middle class family, no.
But outside money being transferred in, from having a wealthy family? Completely possible.

>>5004637
>I bet your children will have to worry about getting a job to support their families in the future.
How much is your stepfather worth? My father is worth $6 million and I couldn't imagine even my immediate siblings and I living off of his inheritance, let alone our children.

Good thing your retarded mom fucked the boss though.

>>5004805
Still not upper middle class and that's the only point made that needs refuting.

I also want to point out with the global redistribution of wealth that is taking place, middle class in the US is a shrinking demographic.

>>5004809
How do you measure someones worth ?
Eurofag here.

>>5004823
>How do you measure someones worth ?
In financial terms: their assets.

>>5004661
>my mom and dad are educated

Too bad you still browse 4chan. It must be nice being a trustfund infant.
I don't even.

>>5004661
>As a child of a PhD and a JD
What does this have to do with you? A JD isn't worth gloating over and anyone who likes school enough can do a PhD. I noticed you didn't say what the PhD was in.

>>5004826
Just their assets ?

6 mil is a lot of money though if it was in a bank, If only 1 mil is in a bank you could probably live from the interest alone.

>>5004829

That's what happens when your parents send you to private all-male schools through puberty and you end up being a social retard who can't talk to women.

I envy my friends who went to public schools and got to have normal puberty.

>>5004834
I doubt it's in any science. They have never been very rich.

>>5004836
I'm not entirely sure about where my parents' assets are spread out. They own some properties that bring in a good income on their own, but I'm not sure how much of that $6 mil is "in the bank".

Split four ways with my siblings it isn't really that much and isn't a legacy or anything. I'll be able to buy some land, which will be nice.

>>5004834

Physical chemistry

>>5004843
Yeah, split 4 ways it isn't very much but if you invest it in something good it's really a good starting point.

>>5004038
you just showed that you, yourself were never trained properly on etiquette. so don't act like you know it... you switch hands when cutting to slow down and enjoy the food. it is considered barbaric to not switch hands.

>tfw parents taught me how to properly use utensils when I was four years old.

How many in this thread had their parents cut up their steak into little pieces for them until they reached highschool when they finally grasped their fork and knife in their fists like a club and sawed away at their meat like an animal?
>Filthy cretin freaks.

I like how everyone on 4chan suddenly turns into millionairs when money and wealth is mentioned.

9/10

>>5004266
Did you just say that teaching a child how to use eating utensils = Child abuse?

>>5004321
Which is fucking funny because they always gets a shitfit when someone does not pay tip.

Do American kids get taught table manners? I'm talking about normal families here, not the 4chan dysfunctional NEET gatherings.

>>5006192
There is obviously no way to prove this. But I'm 23 and have about 10thousand dollars worth of investments. But I have roughly the same amount of student debt. So I guess I am worth exactly zero.

>>5006267
Nope. Granted, my mother's parent's were French Canadian's and my father was Puerto Rican. No notice was ever given to how utensils were used, no one ever mentioned a "right way", it was never brought up at family gatherings, and throughout my entire life, eating with friends and acquaintances, school or work, no one has ever mentioned table etiquette. I even had a Home Economics class when in high school and table manners was never brought up.

No one cares about it unless you are an asspie.


Honestly, are there really people in this thread who've experienced anything about utensil usage outside of their family during their life?

>>5004243
I know why

drives me postal when people have to switch their fork to their right hand to eat and use it like it's a fucking spade. they look learning disabled.

>>5004302
Europe is like the sports team that won a lot of championships decades ago, but has consistently lost since then. All they have to hold on to is muh traditionz, it's semi-honorable in the saddest of ways.

>>5006383
>Honestly, are there really people in this thread who've experienced anything about utensil usage outside of their family during their life?

Yes. More than you think.

>>5006460
I've never seen this happen. It boggles my mind. What do people say? Do they openly scold others for "doing it wrong"? Can you really blame someone if they've never been taught? I have no idea what the "proper" way of using utensils is.

And that anon telling people to look it up, why should anyone if it has never effected their life? I can't see it coming up as an issue unless, for some highly improbable scenario where I am taken to some high class $100 plate restaurant.

>>5004098
I hold my pen that way. Fuck you anon, and your pretentious, nitpicky rules on how to do minor tasks.

>>5006472
>I hold my pen that way.
Oh god lol. Not anon, but I have to let you know everyone cringes and looks at you like you are a child when they see you write like that.

>>5006475
Well I am oh-so-very sorry that nobody told me the way I write was 'wrong'. Writing the 'right' way just feels strange.

>>5006475
Yeah, no. I've never paid attention to how people hold their writing or eating utensils. That isn't something normal people with normal lives and concerns think about, it never crosses their minds. What kind of person is constantly watching what others do and judging them? Are you that desperate to feel superior to someone that you have to internally laugh at how they hold their fork?

Completely ignoring table manners, I find using a fork and knife in the "proper" way is significantly easier than trying to saw through food.

>>5006489
People notice adults with child-like mannerisms. It has nothing to do with feeling superior, "projecting", or anything else.

>>5006489
>I'm not observant and can't notice patterns and subsequent deviations

C-cool bro. Because it takes so much effort and time to notice a manchild when they are in front of you.

>>5006556
My point is, these days, the majority know nothing of the "proper" way of holding utensils, so there is a very small pool of people who could possible witness someone doing things "wrong" and judge them for it. Where do you live that you are absolutely sure that everyone notices how people eat? Why do you think the majority of people even have an opinion on how others are eating or holding their pens? Is it because your parents told you everyone around you is watching you? Have you witnessed people laughing at others for doing things wrong? Has anyone actually brought this up in conversation with you that wasn't your family at the dinner table?

>>5006469
>What do people say? Do they openly scold others for "doing it wrong"?

Actually you don't say anything if you're not good friends with them. Even if you are, you can't really say anything because that would be considered very rude. I have friends who don't know proper dining etiquette and I haven't told them anything but I do value them less because of that, and I avoid going anywhere with them in public. It's just the way I have been thought. I value those things and like I said it's a very big thing in Europe.
Those people are looked down upon and if it's a business meeting such a trivial thing can mean a business failure.

>Can you really blame someone if they've never been taught?
It is very common in Europe to be thought proper dining etiquette. Only degenerates don't know it and refuse to use it.
It's a cultural thing. My family wasn't very rich but they had class. And like someone said class can't be bought.

I do know that this question is irrelevant when you think about it, and that you could eat your food like an animal. I'd be perfectly fine with that, but when you think about it, this question is more of a philosophical one than a cooking/food one.
It's just like saying why wouldn't you wear camo cargo pants on a business meeting, you're not naked are you ?

It would be cool if we could behave like we wanted and not like society tells us to, but we can't, can we ? Because we would be outcasts.

>>5006593
As long as someone is actually USING utensils, eating with their mouth closed, and don't have their elbows on the table, they aren't "eating like an animal."

I suppose it's a European thing. In America no one gives a fuck, honestly. And I'm not from Southern white trash, backwoods shithole.

>>5006604
Exactly, I've said the same thing in one of my earlier posts.

Just like sticking your tongue out is a sign that the food was good in some Asian country I can't remember which one. Those people can't be judged like degenerates because that's what they have been thought it's normal.

>>5006383

>>doing internship abroad in europe, france - lyon
>>eating with your boss in a restaurant
>>ordering a steak with potatoes and some soup
>>after i ate the soup they bring me the steak with potatoes
>>i 'forky-switchy', and first cut the steak in little pieces
>>my boss looks at me
>>asks why im raping my meal
>>i blush
>>i recognize im degenerated
>>dont say anything
>>i 'forky-switchy' cut the whole potatoes and mash them
>>everyone from my company watched me doing it
>>worst day ever during my internship

how it is in american and canada
> http://www.drvoyageur.com/eatright.html

> In fact, merely keeping your mouth closed most of the time while eating and not grabbing food from another's plate are nearly all anyone needs to know in many informal dining environments in the United States, such as fast food joints and some Silicon Valley company lunchrooms.

> Of course, Dr. Voyageur suspects that few will care about how you pass a salt shaker or how your eat your bread. However, you may find yourself dining in situations where people do care.

tl;dr
No one gives a fuck how you eat here unless you're eating with your boss or at a fancy restaurant

>>5006633
the french are assholes no matter what the situation is

>>5006633

This happened to me too, when I was taken out for lunch on a business trip to Paris.

>that feel when you're representing your company in a new market and with one clumsy hand maneuver, you humiliated yourself and by proxy your entire company and all of your coworkers who were counting on you to make a good impression

I'm pretty sure this kind of thing is grounds for committing ritual santoku in front of your boss at Japanese firms. The worst thing is I haven't told anyone except the internet.

>>5006633
>dissecting your food

Are you still 12?

>>5006633
>>5006653
This clearly illustrates the purpose of table manners. They're meant to be a class indicator. They're a tip off of the social status one was born into.

Americans are generally resentful of European class indicators, since we like to pretend we're a classless society. So we tend to be ignorant of them, or view them as mincing and pretentious. As a result most of us have what Europeans would consider atrocious table manners.

>>5006655

Nobody cared in New Mexico

>>5006593
>Hurr durr class
>Durr hurr fitting in

Fuck you, that's not what this is about.
I'll tell you what this is about:

Dignity.

Who is more dignified? The rich, educated manchild that stuffs nourishment into their gaping maw by spastically flailing their utensils around or the idiotic pauper, haunted by their worries, yet valiantly attempting to eat their meal with restraint and elegance?

>>5006685

They say you can't buy class.

>>5004038
I'm left-handed so I'm a fuckup at everything I do to begin with, but thanks for caring.

>>5006685
You wot m8 ?

I can't understand your point. Or you're saying something like
>people who are stupid and uneducated are happy and don't have any worries so it's better to be like them ?

I've been thought that manners matter, and I behave like that since I was a child. I don't know any other way to behave and I consider my way to be a good one. I don't think about it, or worry that someone might judge me because I'm not holding my utensils the right way. It's just like riding a bike, I do it without thinking about how I do it.

>>5006703
No, I'm saying that whatever the world throws at you, it can never take away your dignity. You can only do it yourself. (For example by not bothering with table manners)

>>5006671
Nobody even gave you a sidelong look? Maybe murrica is more tolerant than I thought.

>>5006708
>Maybe murrica is more tolerant than I thought.
The word you're looking for is "ignorant". And in typical American fashion, we tend to wear our ignorance like a badge of honor.

>>5006277
I'm 19 and my stock portfolio is worth 18k...
and I know how to use cutlery

>>5006707
But I personally am not bothered by table manners.
Like I said, I've been doing it since I was a child.

I do agree with you though, but then again you might end up alone with only your dignity.
It's not really worth it, sometimes we need to loosen up.

>>5004156
>Moral
>Concerned with or derived from the code of behaviour that is considered right or acceptable in a particular society

Dining etiquette is designed for the greatest ease for servers and diners in a social context. There are little less obvious subrules, like for example, the proper way to hold cutlery; however, it's not entirely bullshit. The traditionally correct way of holding cutlery gives one the best grip and the optimal strength:dexterity ratio. While this may be reduced for someone who isn't used to holding cutlery in this way, someone used to holding cutlery "correctly" would have more control and precise ability while cutting than someone used to any of the myriad "incorrect" ways to hold cutlery.
It has to do with stability and finesse. It may look like you are being more at ease, delicate and precise by holding both utensils like a pen, but the stability and strength isn't there to give you that precision.

It is, for all intents and purposes, SYSTEMATICALLY correct.

>>5006718
America needs to tighten up. It's degenerated into barely cordial scattered tribes of mutually hostile cultures and interest groups.

> tfw badly broken nose and deviated septum
> tfw can only mouthbreathe, have to do it as subtly as possible or people get all up in your shit for being a troglodyte

Fuck you guys. Pay to have it fixed for me so I have more than 15% airflow and I'll stop breathing through my mouth.

>>5006738
Go back to your cave.

>>5006732
I'm a eurofag and I was talking in general.

I'm not really familiar with the situation in America.

>>5006738
It's rude to ridicule people with health issues.
If you were in Europe it would probably be free or covered with basic insurance.
Sorry about that.

So when I was younger my mother taught me to hold my utensils, and made sure that I new place settings. After she taught me I went to my father's for Easter, and he exclaimed that I wasn't holding my silverware "in the American fashion" and I needed to switch immediately.

I wasn't switching hands, and I was eating with my fork's back pointed up (like in OP's pic).

I just gave up since I couldn't please them both, and now I eat how is most comfortable.

>>5004058
eastern european here
basic table manners were taught in school and were being taught at most homes as well
>hurrr everyone except us western europeans are uncivilized
retard

>>5006766

lol do you have clean running water?

>>5006835

No, but you can be civilized without clean water.
our pipes are just way too old.

>>5006472
How the fuck do you write? I bet you write in gigantic, sloppy letters

>>5006835
I'm not him but a fellow guy from Eastern Europe and I'm just gonna say it, fuck off.

I eat like a caveman. Sometime with my bare hands no matter what it is. It happens when Im pissed off or in a hurry. I got the bad habit while in the navy. Id be in a hurry to eat lunch and get back to work but as soon as I walk onto the mess decks with my tray, bam. no fucking silverware. So id eat my rice, canned peaches and porkchop with my hands really fast, then throw my tray in the scullery at whoevers back there and yell at the faggot back there for being a lazy ass and go back to work.
some people got shit to do, op. Deal with it.

>>5000000

>>5006835
water does not run, fag. it has no legs. we might not be as educated as western europe but we are not that stupid as to think that water runs

>>5006902

Eh, not the anon you addressed, but running water is a term you can use instead of tap water.

>>5006912

I've never heard anyone saying running water

>>5006919
You're gonna shit yourself when you find out about refrigerators running

>>5006919
>I've never heard anyone saying running water

East Czechestan, pls

>>5006926
Oh my God get the fuck outta here with that goddamn picture.

She leaves forever and people insist on reminding us she existed.

>>5006927
I still have feelings for her.

>>5006927
The funny thing is, 4chan crashed briefly the instant I posted it. It remembers too, apparently.

>>5006902
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/running%20water

you stupid slavshit

>>5004450
I'm American and even I know this. You make an x on your plate with utensils to signify to the waiter that you're done and they can take your plate. Hell it's common diner etiquette that everyone knows, just like closing your menu when you're ready to order.

>>5006955
Here a "x" is considered as waiting or that you want to order more. But that's too formal and wouldn't anyone bother

My paternal grandparents had quite a bit of money (more than they ever let on, actually) and so I got a very thorough grounding in proper table manners from a pretty young age. 90% of the time, it doesn't really matter, but you'll be glad you understand how a proper place-setting works for the other 10%.

>>5006975

This. It shows class and that you had a proper education in younger years

Bunch of teenage savages...

>>5007011
>Fork above plate

Obvious troll is obvious

>>5006955

Correct: "after you have finished your dinner, cross the knife and fork on the plate, that the servant may take all away, before bringing you clean ones for dessert."

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/39293/39293-h/39293-h.htm

>>5007019

Also: "It is a good plan to accustom yourself to using your fork with the left hand, when eating, as you thus avoid the awkwardness of constantly passing the fork from your left hand to your right, and back again, when cutting your food and eating it."

>>5004009
You say this because you're of a lower class.

It's that simple.

>>5007017
I don't know the rules of European etiquette, but in US etiquette, that would be the dessert fork.

>>5007017

Where else would the fork be? That's where the food is.

I eat like this, i can check facebook more efficient now.

>>5007067

>>5006267
when i was in school (in birmingham, al) i had 4 or 5 years of manners classes included in my regular schooling. many parents opted for manners classes with "ms. manners" at the local college. my mom apparently had something against her after she went to that school so i didn't go. just because half these inbreds were not taught how to behave doesn't mean that none of us were. this was even a public school.

>>5007011
>eating with your left hand

Infidel

So what's the correct way to hold a fork then?

>Why have people not been taught this?
Because this sort of thing is generally only taught to people who are 'upper class', coming from families with lots of money/power.

>feeling superior to others because you have more money
>2013

>>5007580

Knowing basic etiquette - knowing how to handle a fork and a knive probably - is now considered to be limited on people with lots of money/power?

>>5004189

WE DO NOT!

Unless we really want to

>>5009616
He is talking bullshit, disregard him.

Holy fuck, that thread exploded... I have to remember this topic, it's fresher then tipping and ketchupsteak still.

What is /ck/'s opinion on eating with the left hand using the fork and cutting with the right? So you cut with the knife, lift with the left with the fork. I always felt this looked too pretentious or something so I usually switch the fork to my right hand after cutting.

>go to japanese restaurant
>chopsticks on table
>asks for a fork

>>5006766
>hurrr everyone except us western europeans are uncivilized
literally true though.

So, do I get this right: American parents don't care how their children are getting accustomed to cutlery at all? It's really a question of whether teaching your kids how to behave like a civilised being so that they don't make themselves look like someone whose parents didn't give a fuck about. It's kind of weird since Americans' ancestors came from Europe and should, thus, have installed a sense of class and proper behavior there. It's not like holding a knife and fork and your hands is complicated either.

I kinda get the feeling that this is a similar debate like when Americans don't know or howlingly refuse to drive a stick shift car. I've got to know guys who started to behave like little kids when they were supposed to drive stick. "Nooooo this is soo complicated!!!! Automatic is soo much eaasieeeer!". Like, fuck, cut me a break, it's not rocket science.

>>5011348
>muh stick shift

This is like the /o/ version of /g/'s "built muh own computer". Neckbeards like to act superior over something that's less complicated as putting together legos.

The number of people who can't ride a bicycle is about the same as the number of people who can't drive a stick shift, but you don't hear me shitting on those poor idiots who never had a proper childhood, because it's vulgar to behave that way.

As someone who builds muh own computer, shifts muh own gears, and can tie my own shoelaces, you'll never hear me gloat about such things because it's inane and it makes you sound like you've got nothing going for you.

tl;dr please stop breathing

>>5011372
Can you not tie your own shoe laces? Damn

>>5004245

I just came in here to tell you that you're a fat fuck.

>>5011322
What in the fucking fuck did I just read. You change your fork hand after every cut to eat because it's less pretentious!??! I must be getting troled good job or kill yourself

>>5011372
>As someone who builds muh own computer, shifts muh own gears, and can tie my own shoelaces, you'll never hear me gloat about such things

I see what you did there, you ginormous fag.

>>5011404
Ok, I'll just use my left hand from now on.

>>5011372
>can't ride a bicycle
>can't drive a stick shift
>can't tie his own shoe laces
>can't eat with fork in left hand, knife in right hand
>mfw all these things are a question of social class in the US

My Southern relatives are pretty primitive with their utensils, but when you look around everyone else does it so it's really no big deal.

The spoon shoveling always bothered me though.

>mfw yuropoors use a bidet
>not just using your hand and wiping it off with the poop towel under the sink
>mfw

>arguing about how cutlery is used.
Just when I thought you neckbeards ran out of shit to fight over. I guess tipping threads didn't cut it anymore huh op? Don't any of you have anything more important to do like a job or something? Ya'll nigga's are sad.

>>5005057

not person you quoted but is this a bad joke or something? almost like koreans shitty excuse for eating with mouthful of food

Let's get this shit started
http://strawpoll.me/842936

>>5011426
At least I know how to use an apostrophe.

I may not hold my fork correctly or cut my steak the right way but don't eat like a slob, I treat people with respect, when they talk I look them in the eyes, and I make an effort to make people laugh and feel welcome when necessary. If you still don't want me at your event, dinner party or what have you, then leave me the fuck off the guest list.

>>5004173
They're both round
They're both fruits
They both grow on trees
They're both brightly coloured

I could go all day son

>>5011450
Sounds like this happened to you before. No wonder, if you wield knife and fork like a little kid.

>>5004173

Nope.jpg. They're both things that you parents should have taught you when you were a child.

>>5004122
>he doesnt eat in his bed
>he doesnt use his bed microwave to eat the frozen meals out of your nightstand fridge
lel

>>5007017

That's for dessert.

>>5006669
I don't give a fuck about elbow on tables.
Keep you mouth closed when chewing and don't talk with mouth full of food.

that's pretty much all I give a crap about when it comes to table manners. Being American I guess I wouldn't know what Europeans do. I mean why should I care?

>>5004129

yea, but the point of cutting one piece at a time is so the remainder can stay whole, and therefore hotter/juicier/whole

Look at the hands look at the spoon. It's like a pair of pterodactyl talons.

What I don't understand about Americans refusing dinner etiquette is the fact that dual wielding knife and fork actually makes you eat more comfortably and faster, if that's what you're looking for. On a board that praises fast food threads and gives tips on how to eat as much as possible at banquets, one would think this would be a desirable trait of the style.

>>5004129
Only if you're feeding small child. I always learned you're supposed to cut one bite, put down the knife, switch your fork back, eat, then switch the fork, pick your knife back up, and cut another bite. Repeat. It's time consuming and the European way is faster, but my grandmother would smack me if she saw me eating with the fork in my left hand.

>>5006689
>kardashians
You are quite right
>>5011809
But it's ridiculous, can't you see that?

>>5004088
>Wrong is subjective.
Sort of. The correct way gives you a lot more fine control and power at the same time and you spill less. The "chimp grip" is just not very good!