/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>4958243
I do enjoy me some GMO, but that large scale corporate shit's a bummer.

>>4958243
BREAKING NEWS: Countries that have hundreds of millions of citizens shockingly favor agriculture methods that offer the highest yields with the most minimal work for a minimal cost over more involved, more costly and often riskier small operations.

More at 11.

>this shit is gonna limit food GMO labeling

Retards in the America voted against labeling GMO foods. Evidently, GMO's are so spectacular and wonderful they don;t even deserve to be recognized on the label.

I wish I was a GMO.

>>4958266
the sky is blue
back to you anon

>>4958243

Precisely, I think it's a great time to check-out of the world where you can't grow your own stuff.

It's clearly a conspiracy between the evil government and the evil lizard people living under the denver airport.

Where be at my tater tots?

>>4958243
Good

GMO is the new MSG

all marketing for more expensive no-gmo products

>county just passed a bill requiring GMOs to be labelled, and all pesticides used to be disclosed and a bunch of other shit
>also fields need to be a certain distance away from hospitals, schools etc.
Oh boy here we go

>>4959201
>mfw I imagined farmers having to somehow move their fields when a new school opens up nearby
>in the future we'll have a GMO database online
>farmers who move to a new town required to go door to door and disclose their crops to terrified families

>>4959081
I consider it the left's answer to global warming denialism- a whole bunch of feels-based antiscientific bullshit

>>4958309
Thank you. Now here's the Black-u-weather forecast with Ollie Williams. Ollie?

>>4959772
Yeaaah thanks kevin

looks like the sun is going to continue to rise throughout the week, followed generally by colder evenings

back to you

Im okay with gmo's. Anyone who's not can just go starve.

>>4958273
>Evidently, GMO's are so spectacular and wonderful they don;t even deserve to be recognized on the label.

Evidently, GMO's are so insidious and unhealthy that they deserve to be loudly pointed out whenever they show up.

Because genetic modification is totally worthy of being shoehorned onto food labels as a scare tactic.

>>4959772
IT'S GON RAIN!

>>4959858
Thank you, Ollie.

You guys make me feel unsure weather to support gmos or not. Anyone have some sort of articles of research to back your claims? Or is everyone going by gut feeling on this stuff?

>>4959874
The right GMOs would care what the weather is.

GMO has developed a fear in the minds of NORPs (aka dumbasses, especially in 2013) that is 1:1 analogous to the fear of nuclear power.

using that analogy: there are literally people who believe that a nuclear power plant can go critical and explode like a nuclear explosion.

since this is absolutely impossible, even with reactors that use HEU with a positive void coefficient like those in the former soviet union, its a pure misunderstanding that results from the fact that people universally associate "NUCLEAR" with nuclear weapons.


to a similar extent, people associate anything nuclear with MUTATIONS. since this is universally the result of popular culture (protip: radiation exposure fucking kills you; mutations don't cause Toxic Avengers. they cause death), its yet another pure cultural misconception.


GMO has that term "genetically modified" right in the god damn name.


people tend to make the following objectively false leap:

"genetically modified" = "genetic engineering" = "MONSTERS AND MUTANTS"


The point of that long segue was to point out that people are legitimately afraid of:

a) MUTATIONS
b) MUH LONG TERM CONSEQUENCES!


yes. people are either afraid of getting sick from GMO food, or from a world covered in vines.


the first is so ridiculous I'm not even going to waste my time cause I'm gonna run out of space

the 2nd is conveniently negated by Roundup.

>be sick with congenital disease
>get gene therapy
>become GMO
>????

PROFIT!

>>4959903
Thank you for your time writing that out anon, I'll take it into great consideration as well as do a little research myself.

>>4958243
Welp, time to plant more and more heirlooms and get my neighbors more involved in heirloom gardening.

>>4959874
There are no proper articles of research left. Monsanto has defamed all of them into oblivion. Anyone that says anything gets their entire careers ruin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_ztZGbLEJ0

>>4959903
>pro-GMO
>pro-nuclear
>using a terrible analogy

GB2/pol/

>>4959952

>no proper articles

>monsanto


a) Amgen invented the concept of industrial/commercial genetic engineering and has published fucking 100s of thousands papers over the years

b) every fucking university on the planet publishes fucking stacks of papers on a daily basis on genetic engineering, either for pure research, medical, or horticultural purposes

c) if you are extremely stupid enough to think that the subject of GMO is actually categorized under "Genetically modified organism" in terms of scientific publications, then you need to commit suicide immediately. if you search journals for "Genetically modified organism" all that you will find are policy papers and studies by social sciences and humanities researchers, and so measurably absolutely worthless.

the relevant search criteria is "genetically engineered" or "genetic engineering" to name the most basic and simplistic search criteria.

Transgenic is also another popular term that no one ever uses ever in science.

>>4959964

97.5% of the agriculture in the US is big industrial agriculture that is almost wholly subsidized.

same is true in Brazil

same is true in South Africa

same is true in eastern China

>>4958266
>>4958309
samefag

>>4959946
THE SWAT TEAM JUST COMES AND RIPS UP YOUR YARD DUDE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiFnnR_gpvg&list=PLdpWFdxaNWiS78jUGtMO2ES6EqziLDb0h

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q56bGHL5gWA

after seeing this and using this a few times as an argumentative point, i have come to a conclusion that it may not be a fair point for the critic or the person who says something for which the citation is needed...


its important for everyone to know any and all information that exists so that they may come to their own conclusions, or all we get is two people fighting "PROVE THAT ITS TRUE"

"NO YOU PROVE THAT IT ISN'T TRUE"

its chaos....


it bothers me when people like eating organic and someone just has to try and convince them that they should just stop and eat monsanto food, YEA RIGHT! they don't want that!

some people would rather convince someone to eat monsanto poison trash than consider the possibility that organic food might be better for the planet and the people who eat it, and give them the fair benefit of the doubt and leave them alone, but instead they go so far out of their way to try and desperately discredit organic food, like they HATE it or something?

nobody forces them to get organic food, it is all clearly marked.

meanwhile genetically modified food from monsanto is not always clearly marked so in a sense, many people are passively being "forced" in essence to go to the store and buy food (which they need to survive) picking up products a b c d e f g with over half of them being likely to have come from monsanto, with no clear or obvious way for them to tell.

that is why i believe we need organic food right now, because it is so difficult to tell what food did and did not come from monsanto or other genetically modified pesticide overloaded sources.

monsanto dumps millions every year straight into the government to avoid having to be fair and label their products as "this came from us" because they fear the consumer and they know that many people would likely avoid their products because it is simply their freedom of choice. they fear freedom, so they seek to enslave us.

those are my thoughts and opinions.

i believe that if all farmers focused their efforts on growing all their fruits and vegetables and plants of all kinds in a very natural way with no poisons and mostly organic sets of rules on how to grow things, they could make things work.

for example, some farmers buy crates of LIVE ladybugs to release into their fields to eat the pests that harm their crops, naturally making things work.

also i heard garlic and oregano as well as other plants are natural pest repellents because some pests don't like going near them.

im sure there are many plants with properties like this out there, why don't farmers just plant lots of these plants around all their crops? it would be very interesting to see farmers working together with nature instead of just covering everything in poison and calling it "done"

i know it is possible, if everyone works together and treats nature with respect and uses common sense and nature knowledge, we can live in a world where everyone eats sustainably and more natural.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXEEiznjkMM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6_DbVdVo-k

fructose itself isn't a bad thing in my opinion because in nature many fruits are loaded with this stuff, and so is honey and agave nectar, but those things are usually a complete sugar.

high fructose corn syrup usually comes from a bad place to begin with, for example genetically modified corn from monsanto loaded with harsh chemicals and pesticides. and then its treated with even more harsh chemicals (inb4 water is a chemical, that agrumentative point is invalid as the context is discombobulated into manipulatively derailing the point without actual basis, as well as the fact that there are good and bad chemicals in subjectivity to the human body, and even the good ones are taken in moderation) so after being treated with chemicals (again) they add even more terrible stuff to neutralize its pH which at the point of finishing its crazy journey it is sold to companies to use it as a cheap sweetener in drinks and foods. at this point its a very incomplete sugar that poisons the liver, causing all kinds of insulin issues and unhealthy fat buildup of bad fats sometimes around the liver.(not necessarily weight gain).

i do however believe (but never tried any of) that Organic corn sugar that has not been processed could likely be relatively safe and healthy in moderation.

I am NOT a doctor. ask your doctor before doing anything.

Beyond the specter of possible health risks from GMOs (which may or may not be real - nobody knows) the system based on GMOs is unworthy of support and dangerous for health.

We know the Western diet leads to health problems like obesity, diabetes and high blood pressure. Our agricultural system is set up to make eating a Western diet as cheap as possible. This is done through monoculture: 80% of our produce is corn and a little soy. Er don't eat either as is - the stuff is used for animal feed and processed foods. Very risky to bnase your food system on one crop. GMOs have made it more risky, since now it's not just one crop, it's 80% of our agriculture based on one set of genetics. That's insanely dangerous over the long term, because sooner or later a threat will come to which that specific genome is vulnerable. When that happens the whole system will fail.

Then there's the way it works: it's cheap because it depends on huge petrochemical inputs. As long as petrochemicals are cheap the food will be cheap. Petrochemicals get more expensive and prices will skyrocket.

Depending on petrochemicals is inefficient. Traditional farms don't make pollution. Animal waste feeds crops, silage feeds animals, yadda yadda. Petrochemical farming creates huge pollution in terms of runoff, animal waste and pesticides. Yes, it can feed many in the short term, but it's incredibly wasteful of energy. The only reason it looks efficient is because petrochemical energy is still so cheap. It won't be so forever.

The reason I don't want GMO food has as much to do with not wanting to take much part in the system based around them than distrust of GMOs themselves. The system is dangerously short sighted, dangerous and designed to support a kind of diet we KNOW is unhealthy. Fuck that shit.

bump

bump for justice

>>4960144
You sound like you would talk like a crazy, organic obsessed version of Masaokis.

"Dey put all dese chemicals and stuff in the corn, right. and then as it grows, dey put more chemicals on. But not like water chemical, cuz water is a chemical, but like other stuff.

I totally swear by this other stuff you might find, that I've never tried, cuz it says like 'unprocessed' and 'corn' on it.

I'm not a doctor or anyting though, so like, you know"

>>4958243
Does it allow the copyrighting bullshit monsato pulls?

>>4960296
anon, I started with

"monsanto sucks"

someone said "why"

so then i changed what i say to

"monsanto sucks and because"

and they said "ORLY"

and i said "yeh"

and they said "PROVE IT"

and then i said "da chemicals"

and they said "water is a chemical"

and i said "YOU SONE OF A BOTCH"

and after many trolls bothering me, i finally talk like this now, so they can't get around my words and manipulate the conversation.

(as easily)


ask your doctor before doing anything.

>>4960301
i heard it does, i might be wrong though

bump!

>GMOs are safe!
>GMOs are unsafe!

>no studies of correct length ever conducted so GRAS all around
>the few studies that were correct length found problems and got vilified and defamed for it

Hmm....well you know what? I think I'll pass on eating GMOs and stick to gardening.

http://gmoevidence.com/danish-pigs-gm-soy/
Danish Pig Birth Defects – GM Soy
http://gmoevidence.com/iowa-infertility-in-pigs-from-gm-corn/
Iowa – Infertility in Pigs from GM Corn
http://www.examiner.com/article/mounting-evidence-that-gmo-crops-can-cause-infertility-and-birth-defects
Mounting evidence that GMO crops can cause infertility and birth defects

bumping

>>4959838

A modest label is not a scare tactic, you shill. It's called transparency. The consumer should be aware of what they are purchasing.

>>4960937
>>the few studies that were correct length were full of problems and got vilified and defamed for it

FTFY

>>4958273
i live in america. i never had the option of voting on the option of labeling gmo food or not. never even heard of the chance to vote. its odd because my phone gets blown up all the time letting me know of all the up coming political parties who are running for office. i would have voted yes to labeling gmo foods as gmo

>>4961366
there is a vote going on now i think.

look it up on youtube

>>4961330
This. Put "GMO" on a little green dot with a sprig of wheat and no one will know the better.

>>4961416
i honestly believe that everyone has a right to know if their food is gmo or not.

why does monsanto spend MILLIONS a year to prevent a little label from letting people know?

>>4961429

Odd isn't it? They're supposedly doing all of these great wonderful things for the food supply yet don't want any recognition. They evidently must be so humble that they are willing to spend all that money not to be recognized.

>>4961448
its freaky... I just want to know if the food came from them, so I can choose to absolutely never ever buy it! (im 100% serious)

>>4961429
Why spend that much when they can easily fuel positve propaganda? The only actual problems with GMO are insufficient testing (negligible) and the whole copyright issue. Simple problems to work around.

>>4958243
>over sustainable local farming
I don't think you have any idea what is kind of farming is required and beneficial for the developing world.

>>4961540
>developing world.

There's been no developing word for at least 100 years or more. That is a western mindset. Develop, expand, grow, etc. There comes a time when you need to have stability or fly into space with that shit.

>>4959964
Maybe you should go back to whatever touchy feely retard bin you crawled out of because you clearly don't understand the subjects at all.
I swear it's like you fucks don't even want to know what you are talking about and are only fear mongering. Chirst this whole thread is full of retards who don't even understand the most basic sciences. I swear to fucking god I don't even know why I go in these types of threads on this hippy infested board.

>>4961562

Bye.

>>4961556
True enough, however efficiency of land to crop output is woefully poor. Organic farming even more so, and looking to the future we cannot afford to take steps in the wrong direction.
Though as far as I am aware there have been several ideas for engineered towers and other types of large scale operations that reach much better operating efficiency. But they are untested and no one has even tried to put them into use or even the testing phase. Perhaps when need grows we may do so, however I think this is a mistake and we should already be pushing for reform.

Picture not really related to the actual real world designs I mentioned previously, it is just a cool idea I found looking at some designer's ideas of future large scale engineering, though it does feature the tower greenhouse idea.

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GMO's are typically safe, Bananas are GMO's.

Monsanto however are an evil company and if you're in this thread you already have an idea of what underhanded tactics they use to fuck up farmers and others

So instead I will appeal to your ability to think, do you think this company that actively attempts to bankrupt farmers to ensure no competition give a shit about you or if their food that you consume is safe?

If you haven't noticed that the powers that be haven't favoured corporations rather than people significantly lately you've had your head in the sand too long

Sweet, science for the win.

>>4962669
Start a hippy commune and bitch about it with other people like you who's opinions don't really matter.

I know that Peru has a temporary ten year ban on GMOs.

>>4962736
Because Peru is the pinochle of human civilization and technology, amirite?

>>4962669

bananas have never been artificially modified. They have been clonally propagated from a seedless mutation.

The only traits to have been engineered into plants and subsequently released are resistance to the herbicide glyphosate (Roundup) and a gene from bacillus thuringiensis, which makes the plants produce their own endogenous pesticide. The most common GMO crops are corn, soy, cotton and canola. Papayas have also been modified, with the majority of papayas grown in hawaii currently GM. There was a tomato that was recalled due to health issues, and a potato I think but am not sure. Also, Monsanto has been trying to push a Bt eggplant in India, but due to the massive flop that Bt cotton has been, it has been facing large scale resistance... dunno if they wound up releasing it yet or not. Oh yeah, and a good bit of raddichio is supposed to be GM too

Contrary to the common misperception, trats for higher yields and nutrien content have not been engineered into any approved crop. The "golden rice" is really illogical, since we don't need to engineer vitamin A into anything to get it into peoples' diets, since loads of really easy to grow food like carrots or yellow corn is full of it

Monsanto is a multi billion dollar corporation that has goals to own most of the food in the world.

If they believe so dearly in their products then why are they so afraid to have their products labeled?

This is why it seems very sketchy. Even the very idea of a corporation patenting nature seems fucked up.

No group of humans should have that much control over something that's essential to our survival.

Oil is one thing.... but plants? Really? What happens if someday Monsanto passes a law stating that
one one shall grow their own plants on their property? What happens if someday Monsanto owns 95% of the world's
food supply and dictates who gets to eat - when - where - and how ---- or else suffer the consequences.

>>4962755
WAIT... there are other banabas... WITH seeds?

i want to try.

>>4964722
I think thats exactly what they want. complete evil control over everything.

thats what every evil bad guy in every single movie and cartoon always wants.

then superman shows up.

where is superman?

>>4965370
bump for justice

bump

>>4965370
We... We need a hero.

>>4965365
Enjoy your cracked teeth.

>>4958243
>worries about gmo food coming into the food chain.
>doesn't realise america is the biggest gmo producer.

bumping thread

>>4964722
That is not how companies work.

>>4966446
Not yet.

>>4966198
This is a wild banana. The bananas around now have been selectively bred for lack of seeds. The way they get the plant to reproduce is to propogate them, so every banana plant is genetically identical.

The old breed of banana was straight but came under attack from disease, and that's why we don;t eat them any more. Can't remember what they were called

>>4966489
gros michel, remembered

>>4958266
i've never seen any evidence that GMO crops grow faster or have higher yeilds. it's just something you assume when hearing about GMO.

>>4965365

There are thousands of different kinds of bananas bro. They come in all kinds of crazy shapes and colors and sizes. My favorite is the Blue Java. AKA the Ice Cream banana. The banana is blue and it tastes like vanilla ice cream or custard. Most people don't know about it because of monoagriculture.

>>4958266

GMO crops often need more labor and more intensive use of things like pesticides than normal crops. Particularly some of the GMO varieties of soy or corn. Often there are two different types of GMO crops of the same food type. The most popular are the types designed to survive herbicides like glyphosate (aka roundup). Plants usually die when exposed to an herbicide, but through genetic modification they can survive it. One of the problems with this is that these same crops require a helllllllll of a lot more herbicide used on them on a regular basis and the herbicides like glyphosate require a nasty surfactant to even be of any use. The surfactants are usually pretty toxic and they tend to drive the herbicides deep into the tissues of plants. It helps kill unwanted plants even better, but itl means your GMO foods like soy and corn are packed with more crap you don't really want in your body.

When I had to do some research papers in college on this stuff it was really interesting to learn about. Up til then I didn't know that some GMO crops required more pesticide use and more intensive farming for about the same result. Right now I've got some people at the UF college of agriculture asking me to join in some research work with them. They've got all this new multi-million dollar lab equipment and insane amounts of money from farmers and agriculture companies like Monsanto. Agriculture research is surprisingly interesting and profitable.

bumping with info.

The Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP) is a new extremely damaging act that will allow corporations to do everything from sue foreign governments for not allowing monsanto in their countries, to suing the domestic american government if they pass any laws that hurt profits, to suing YOU PERSONALLY for posting content from say, a movie scene, on 4chan! This is really fucking bad. Get the info out.

https://wikileaks.org/tpp
https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/nov/13/wikileaks-trans-pacific-partnership-chapter-secret?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
http://rt.com/op-edge/tpp-us-secretive-draft-736/

Spread info, look for TPP threads, call your representatives.


- The TPP undermines access to fundamental medicines by extending monopoly protections for Big Pharma
- The TPP empowers corporations to sue governments for environmental and health measures they do not like
- The TPP restricts Internet innovation and increases the surveillance of online interactions
- The TPP undermines Indigenous rights and human rights
- The TPP creates a race to the bottom on working conditions, environmental standards and all kinds of public regulations
- The TPP prioritizes large-scale corporate agriculture (GMOs, antibiotics, etc) over sustainable local farming

http://www.flushthetpp.org/actions/

In case you didn't read it. Here's where they can patent plants and animals, excluding microorganisms.

>>4959903
LOL.. what a thoughtlessly damp, flimsy argument.. Every point you tried to make was false in a similar tone as those videos produced explaining atomic bombs in the 50s and how they where so safe..

This shit is disastrous... The most risky, permanent fucking around with this planet man has conducted to date.. more risky than radiation. Life can easily be destroyed by this as the eco unbalances it introduces are staggering.. a GMO has the power to outstrip any other species or strain and throw off our eco system in a disastrous way.

Not to mention the unknown and unpredictable effects of what they can do to us.

It isnt just "safe"... It is extremely risky and permanent.. You sound like you either have too much trust in man kind or too much carelessness, either way you wont be honest about it.

>>4967662

The world won't allow this to happen.

The people who are doing this are old fucks that have no compassion or empathy.

This proves that people in position of power still want to maintain their power through more control. They can go fuck themselves, they're not a part of humanity in my opinion.

>>4966536
A lot of GM crops are engineered to be resistant to pests and be able to grow in low nitrogen soil/fix their own nitrogen.

Just because you haven't seen evidence doesn't mean you're right.

source: I'm doing a bioengineering elective at a top uk university

spoiler: "top" uk universities are shit and full of retards

>>4967847

The only thing this post proves is that you fundamentally misunderstand both nuclear physics and genetic modification, other than that monocultures are like totes fukkin bad, bro.

You're probably one of those people who pisses their pants when they find out radioactive cobalt is used to sterilize food, and dismisses everyone who disagrees with you as some 'shill' or 'sheeple' or some other strawman wrongheaded meanieface.

Not to mention this entire topic belongs in /pol/ to begin with.

>>4966549
U WOT THE DOGE M8

i want to experience so much, all the plants!!!

i want to fly a spaceship that is made out of plants and explore the universe and make friends and eat organic pizza and be so happy... I WILL FOLLOW MY DREAMS!!! SOMEHOW!!!

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>>4961562
>fear mongering
>implies Nuclear power plants and GMO plants are analogous
>not fear mongering your self.

>>4959981
I am confused? Bigger is not better?
And Nuclear power plants can be made for local communities in smaller versions?

problem with GMOs is that they aren't being made to reduce chemical use, water use, increase yields, increase shelf life. They are developed so chemical companies can sell you more of their poison. Got a yearly bug problem? well they got a corn seed that doesn't mind being drenched in their bug killer. so go ahead and use as much as you want. oh soil depleted from decades of monocropping? well our seeds need a special synthetic fertilizer that only we can sell. now your chemical wasteland fields can grow corn to be used for ethanol for cars or animal feed. then the rain will wash it all away and kill everything in the rivers, lakes, and oceans.

the of course more and more countries are banning GMO. so American farmers are loosing export markets. even farmers who aren't growing GMO are loosing because their crops get cross pollinated. Oregon wheat farmers discovered illegal monsanto gmo wheat fields in their state. which had contaminated their fields.

bump

>>4970111
They do make products that are meant to be more disease resistant, reduce water use, increase yields, ect.

But the main thing they try to do is make money by selling shit like round-up ready corn or whatever that makes it easier for industrialized modern farmers to do their thing.

The other stuff is just sort of a bonus.

Anyways, soon enough industrialized farming will be impossible with rising energy costs. Then we can all do everything with hand tools and die of crop failures and everything like the good ol' days.

>>4970705
disguised shill

>". Then we can all do everything with hand tools and die of crop failures and everything like the good ol' days."


no thanks, there are many natural ways to do things that would be successful and don't need to be full of poison and chemical to work.

doesn't have to be industrial.


Ask your doctor before doing anything.

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bump for justice

BUMP FOR JUSTICE FOR THE WORLD!!!!!!!

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i keep bumping because of the importance of awareness of the issues.

>>4975297
bump

What's the tl;dr?

>>4975297
>the importance of awareness of the issues.

Jury is still out.

The real question that a lot of scientists against GMO is that what effect has a mutated DNA food have on the human body, because no one has an answer to that (does it get digested, or does it become part of the human body in forms of cells added to your body).

So, most people are like
>Wow! Let's not rush this. Let's wait another 10 years of experimenting on US citizens to see if they grow an extra arm, leg, or head!

So, yeah, let's wait this one out. We'll know better in 10 years time.