/ck/ - Food & Cooking

And if you missed the first part, here it is as well.

>>4938395
this is surprisingly non retarded considering what I expected. I'm too drunk and tired to give it a careful response but I'm sure this will be up tomorrow. for now I would just amend the comment about virtually impossible to ruin irreversibly. say it's worse to have a dull edge than a knife with whatever minor flaws a botched sharpening job can cause in the worst case or something along those lines. I mean you can definitely cause permanent issues but if it was a beaked tip vs a dull edge forever it's not a hard choice.

>>4938450
Thanks for the input. I might actually put a graphic in there on how to repair a broken tip.

No comments as I don't know much about knives, but thank you; I remember you saying before you were going to do a part 2.

>>4938399
>not recommending any western style knives in the premium category
I'm sure you could put a Henkels or Wusthof on there.
You could be harsher in highlighting the importance of taking care of the knife as well. Sure some people are still going to be idiots about it, but you can still stress the point: not taking care of a knife will lead to a dull, chipped edge!

minor note on presentation:
I'd recommend moving the last sentence regarding the star down a line or two and then putting the star in front of the sentence just because some people are going to skim through or just look at the pictures.

>>4938395
possible typos:
>choosing the right tools
>third paragraph says stone flatter

>under "polishing the edge"
>push-cut vegetables
not sure if that's a typo or not

Seems like a good guide and I like the clean presentation, but it suggests that a whetstone is the only way to sharpen your knives. It's probably the best way short of the sort of belts that professional sharpeners use, but for some home cooks the skill and technique (or at least the desire to develop those skills) might be a little out of their grasp.

>>4938395
how come no mention of using a steel to maintain the edge?

>>4938529
stones work on all hardnesses. grooved steels are only ideal for soft knives.

That's a really nice guide, OP, but
>7. Testing
Do people really do that stuff? I've always just run my thumb (perpendicularly) across the edge to see how sharp it is.

>>4938517
>I'm sure you could put a Henkels or Wusthof on there.
I'm not trying to be objective or inclusive. I make recommendations based on my own experiences. I liked the Victorinox knives I've used, I didn't like the Wusthofs.

>You could be harsher in highlighting the importance of taking care of the knife as well. Sure some people are still going to be idiots about it, but you can still stress the point: not taking care of a knife will lead to a dull, chipped edge!
I think I might add a section for maintenance.

>third paragraph says stone flatter
That's a typo, I meant stone flattener.

>>4938529
I'll add a section on maintenance. I use a ceramic steel for my Victorinox and Old Hickory knives. I don't use a steel on my expensive knives. I use a strop, or one of the fine stones for them.

>>4938575 I've always just run my thumb (perpendicularly) across the edge to see how sharp it is.
Whatever works for you. I sometimes use the thumb grab technique, where you lightly run your thumb down the edge to see if it grabs it (I'm not including that). I think I'll extend that section to include the paper test.

>>4938450
>>4938395
ok here again. going to be late for work soon but for now, I'll add that I personally disagree with your selection of grits. in my opinion, especially on the more expensive setups, you need something between the 120 grit and the 1000 grit. a 500 grit would work. even on the low end setup an 800 grit or even lower would be a good addition.

personally I believe the fad of trying to scare inexperienced people into avoiding coarse stones until they're sharpening hermits with 300 years of experience is stupid and counterproductive, but I think I'm alone in this opinion.

Thanks for the effort OP, generally I applaud this kind of thing as at least a good starting point but I do think is should be emphasised more than these are subjective choices with numerous other routes being viable.

>>4939206
>personally I believe the fad of trying to scare inexperienced people into avoiding coarse stones until they're sharpening hermits with 300 years of experience is stupid and counterproductive, but I think I'm alone in this opinion.
Nope, you're not alone! Especially if a cheaper knife is a first-buy recommendation, which I think is a good idea to prevent costly mistakes early on.

Wow, those prices. Up here in Canada the prices for knives are double the amount.

>>4938395

I read a lot of sharpening and all the burr jazz.

When I do sharpen, I never follow the complicated procedures, I just run the knife over the stone alternating sides and that works fine.

explain that shit

>>4939473
yeah but when you cut your finger off the emergency room visit is much cheaper

>>4939547
Not OP but you don't really develop a burr if you religiously alternate strokes on each side of the blade — each stroke removes most of the burr created by the previous stroke, and as you work through grits the remaining burr gets smaller and smaller.

And if you strop at the end it removes any microscopic burr that may remain from the final stone, while simultaneously polishing the bevel, resulting in the finest edge normally. If you do this right the knife should be sharp enough to shave hair from your forearm.

>>4939609

But why would I want a knife to be sharp enough to shave hair from my forearm, though?

I want it to cut meat and vegetables and i don't need to perform a samurai ritual to get that.

>>4939710
because less pressure on the food and cutting board means your edge lasts longer. also some food (tomatoes, tender roasts with crackly skin, etc) benefit from an extremely sharp edge. of course if you're only prepping mirepoix who cares but I assume most people do more than one thing with their knives.

>>4938395
Your infographic is pretty good OP. A few suggestions:

- I only move my blade across the stone with the edge leading, that way there is no burr you have to get rid off later in the first place.

- I f you don't choose to adopt this method, a better way to detect a burr is to drag the blade over a bit of woolen yarn with the edge trailing. That method will let you detect the slightest burr, it will also show you the direction it is pointing.

- If you are unsure whether you have sharpened the edge all the way to the "cutting point" cross section put some marks on your blade with a waterproof sharpie. Any colour left after sharpening will show up immediately

>>4938588
>I'm not trying to be objective or inclusive
You should. The point in making a general guide is to be educational, not just a limited expression of a personal opinion. There's enough people on /ck/ that use and would recommend knives from western manufacturers that a "/ck/ knife guide" ought to include few of them.

Good shit OP. I use my stone dry now, and I haven't noticed any difference from the waterstones I've used in the past. Some people say that wetstones produce irregular edges, but I haven't had any perceptible change. America's Test Kitchen said dry sharpening was less dangerous, which is true if you're extremely clumsy. Dry sharpening produces metal dust, but since I do it at my toolbench and not the kitchen, I don't care.

>>4939891
America's test kitchen doesn't know shit. these are the people who test three randomly chosen knives and declare the best of the three to be the best in the world.

I'm new to the board, and I admit that I didn't your your op pic. That being said I cooked professional for years and would recommend Hienkel or a similar brand. If you don't won't to drop that kind of money get a victorinox (same company that makes Swiss Army knives). TBH I use my 8" victorinox more than my Hienkel. If I worked in a professional kitchen again I might change my mind.

A good knife rarely needs sharpening, just hit it with a butchers steel. Any time you sharpen a knife you're removing blade material and therefor shortening its life. I have knives that I have only sharpened once in ten years, just hone it on the steel every time you use it and you won't have any problems. You can get the victorinox for ~$35 the Hienkel will run you $60 and way up depending on the model. The $60 hienkels aren't German either, they're made in Spain.

thank you. I've been doing research on knives and this is exactly what I needed.

If I knew you, I'd buy you a beer.

one way to test how sharp a knife is is to run it through a piece of paper. it should slide right through with minimal resistance.

alternatively, you can lightly tough the blade on your fingernail and if it encounters resistance if you move it, it is sharp.

While a picture is all fine for an imageboard, a video is a lot more useful for beginners because the sound helps you a lot in sharpening. A consistent sound helps you make sure you're keeping a consistent angle. Chefsteps made great course and series of videos on this. One of the set of stones they recommend is the Norton Waterstone Starter Kit which you can get pretty cheap off amazon and gives you pretty much all you need. The set also comes with a DVD tutorial to teach you how to sharpen as well.

http://www.chefsteps.com/activities/how-to-sharpen-a-knife

http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waterstone-Starter-Kit-flattening/dp/B000XK0FMU

>>4939206
>you need something between the 120 grit and the 1000 grit
I agree that a coarse stone is valuable, but if a knife already has an established bevel, it can be resharpened starting with a 1000 grit.

>personally I believe the fad of trying to scare inexperienced people into avoiding coarse stones
I'm not trying to scare people away from coarse stones. In fact, it's the first step in the instructions.

>>4939473
Can you get it shipped from the US? Prices in brick-and-morter stores are very high here in the States as well.

>>4939547
Whatever works for you.

>>4939710
>But why would I want a knife to be sharp enough to shave hair from my forearm, though?
It's a convenient test that I can do at any point during the sharpening process. It's a method for quantifying progress. You can tell when a burr is removed on the 1000 grit when it starts catching hairs. It's one of many tests.

>>4939792
Edge leading strokes reduce burr creation, but they don't prevent it. My current method is back and forth, followed by edge leading strokes, then finished with edge trailing strokes. I wanted to keep it simple for the guide: back and forth for setting the bevel, and edge trailing for deburring.

>>4940867
I take Paypal

>>4941353
>if a knife already has an established bevel, it can be resharpened starting with a 1000 grit.

I have yet to see a knife where the factory edge was something I wanted to work with.

>I'm not trying to scare people away from coarse stones. In fact, it's the first step in the instructions.

Oh, I misunderstood the point of the 120 grit, I thought you were suggesting that as a flattening plate only. If you go from 120 straight to 1000 you're going to be grinding out the scratches all day. Maybe not if it's a 1000 grit diamond plate, but any standard stones would take way too long.

>>4940873
but cutting paper dulls your edge

>>4941360
Not OP. And I would never ask for monetary or any other compensation of any sorts for my contributions, EVER. I only ask that you state your honest opinion on them, and hopefully post them if you like them.

>>4941435
>I have yet to see a knife where the factory edge was something I wanted to work with.
Yeah, only a handful of my knives came with an edge I didn't change the angle on initially. But it's doable with 1000 grit, just not recommended.

>Oh, I misunderstood the point of the 120 grit, I thought you were suggesting that as a flattening plate only. If you go from 120 straight to 1000 you're going to be grinding out the scratches all day. Maybe not if it's a 1000 grit diamond plate, but any standard stones would take way too long.
DMT Coarse is closer to 325 grit. Removing the scratches with the 1000 is doable. At every step, more stones is better, but I don't want to scare people off of hand sharpening with a $400 set.

>>4941703
I've never noticed a sharp reduction in sharpness from testing on a sheet or two of paper.

>>4941360
This guy is not the OP. And I would never ask for monetary or any other compensation of any sorts for my contributions, EVER. I only ask that you state your honest opinion on them, and hopefully post them if you like them.

>>4941435
>I have yet to see a knife where the factory edge was something I wanted to work with.
Yeah, only a handful of my knives came with an edge I didn't change the angle on initially. But it's doable with 1000 grit, just not recommended.

>Oh, I misunderstood the point of the 120 grit, I thought you were suggesting that as a flattening plate only. If you go from 120 straight to 1000 you're going to be grinding out the scratches all day. Maybe not if it's a 1000 grit diamond plate, but any standard stones would take way too long.
DMT Coarse is closer to 325 grit. Removing the scratches with the 1000 is doable. At every step, more stones is better, but I don't want to scare people off of hand sharpening with a $400 set.

>>4941703
I've never noticed a sharp reduction in sharpness from testing on a sheet or two of paper.

Updated Part 2 to include maintenance and tip repair.

>>4940782
>declare the best of the three to be the best in the world
their ranking system is a simple "highly recommend" "recommended" or "not recommended." i don't think you know what you're talking about

>>4941703
so does using it

>>4940782
>America's test kitchen doesn't know shit.
>these are the people who test three randomly chosen knives and declare the best of the three to be the best in the world.
All of my wut?
>three randomly chosen knives
>declare the best of the three to be the best in the world
You're either very ill-informed or you feel that ATK crapped in your Wheaties or something and you like to bad-mouth them as a result, but either way you should probably refrain from further posting on the subject.

>>4938395
No mention of ceramics? Really?

>>4942293
You seem a little butthurt bro. I'll continue to post here, and you can continue having an irrational attachment to your precious infallible ATK.