/ck/ - Food & Cooking

the contract would change for the world being are bitch to use being the worlds bitch

>>4572265
I tried putting this sentence into Google Translate but it couldn't detect the language. Say that again please.

food and cooking, not ethics and philosophy, not environmental conservation.
I hate you and hope you are eaten by a bear

>>4572273
It's environmental conservation through food and cooking. Food isn't just about taste. Every bite has an impact on our surroundings, and ourselves.

>implying consuming less meat and dairy means vegan

I love meat - but I try to only it a couple times a week for both health and environmental reasons.

Are there any vegan directors who AREN'T useless hacks?

James Cameron hasn't made a good movie in over a decade. Why should anyone listen to this washed up loser?

>>4572288
This is a cooking board. This thread is not about cooking food. This is a bad thread. Take it to /an/.

Consuming less doesn't mean consuming none at all.

>>4572324
The dozens of threads we have about drinks aren't about cooking food either. Pouring a bottle of whisky into a cup and drinking it =/= food and cooking. /Ck is about food and cooking, and all that encompasses. It's not only about "plz hlp me how do I cook cheezburger."

>>4572327
>womyn on the same level as whale
Egoistic patriarchy is the one forcing strong womyn to buy makeup at gunpoint and ruining the planet pls eat carrots.

food food and more food

>>4572341
Yeah, right because drinks aren't anymore related to food than speculations about the ecosystem.
According to, uh, you?
Yeah, no, fuck off.
Man drinks whilst eating its food, man doesn't talk about bullshit whilst eating because mankind knows that shit is outright rude.

>>4572341
This thread is shitposting at it's worse.

I believe blatant trolling is a bannable offense.

>>4572327
>woman on the same level as whale
The whale should be first. Look at the amount of women stoned and raped in places like Saudi Arabia, versus the amount of whales killed by Japan. And there's no TV show on like Whale Wars with people trying to save the stoned women.

>>4572355
And I believe janitors are complete retards.

Stating the obvious won't get you anywhere champ, you might as well join in on the shitposting.

>>4572354
>man doesn't talk whilst eating
Ancient Greek and Roman civilizations were pretty much founded on talking while eating. All important matters were discussed over food. They even had bags on the tables to throw up into since people ate so much for so long. Even today this is in our culture. When friends "catch up" they go out to lunch. People have dates at restaurants to get to know each other. Actors, writers, etc. talk to their editors at lunch.

Food and politics are like peanut butter and jelly. Bread and olive oil.

>>4572369
>Ancient Greek and Roman
>civilizations
And soon you'll call cavemen civilised.

Grow up, kid.

>>4572369
/ck/ and >>>/pol/

>>4572379
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_technology

Without Ancient Rome's technology and arts/culture, the world would be a radically different place right now. They laid the groundwork for everything.

>>4572327
>Women higher than dogs

i'm glad he did this. it just gives me another reason to list
when people ask me why i think he's an asshole.

>>4572326
>Consuming less doesn't mean consuming none at all.
Yeah, people should do whatever they can. No meat is ideal, but even cutting meat consumption by one meal per day makes a big difference. Or things like Meatless Monday.

http://www.meatlessmonday.com/

>>4572327
So wait, are the Japanese eating women?

Vegans are so desperate to legitimize their stupidity for not wanting to admit they made a choice without ever really thinking it through that they jump at any chance they can get to attach a name to it. It's sad, and really annoying when they think it's worth anyone's time by shitposting it all over a board. Just chalk another one up to the faggotry of idiots.

>>4572421

>>4572418
Go fuck yourself.

Good, I hate the environment. Still rooting for an arcology covered Earth.

>>4572421
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyotaimori

>>4572318
>James Cameron hasn't made a good movie in over a decade.
I'm not a big fan of his movies, but pretty ridiculous to say this seeing as he's the most successful director of all time. Avatar is the best selling movie in history.

Cute idea and such, but it's entirely unfounded and untrue.

>protip: If you want to be Vegan, stick to moral arguments. Those actually have weight and validity. Science does not in any way bear out Vegan as being better than a rounded omnivorous diet nor is there proof eating meat will make the world end.

>>4572439
Two and a Half Men is a wildly successful sitcom; a long-runner with tons of viewers. Do you see the flaw in your logic yet?

>>4572439
And it sucked, what's your point?

>>4572439
>best selling
Yo, best selling does not equal good.

Hell, let's put it in board/thread related terms:
What do you think is better selling in the US: McDonald's Big Macs or tofu?

>>4572441
I eat meat, and don't care if others do, but to say that meat isn't bad for the environment is just plain wrong. Meat production is the #2 cause of greenhouse gas emissions, a top cause of pollution, species extinction (due to habitat loss), resource use, and deforestation.

>>4572467
Yeah mate, no. Calories per acre, meat is by far the more environmentally friendly food source.

>>4572467
Bullshit.

>>4572467
Civilization being number 1.

Don't be against meat, be for more efficient livestock farming. For example we've just made cows that don't fart. Too bad the whackjob environmentalists are also the anti GMO crowd.

>>4572471
Are you kidding me? Meat is the least sustainable food product on this planet. It takes 13 lbs of grain to produce 1 lb of beef. 1 gram of beef protein uses 10x+ more fossil fuels than a gram of plant protein. You can produce more calories per acre growing foods that have little calories, like tomatoes, than you can with cows.

http://www.ewg.org/meateatersguide/interactive-graphic/

>>4572473
Do a simple Google search on "meat and the environment" and you'll find reports from every agriculture and environmental agency, both independent and government ones, in the world detailing how damaging meat is.

The United Nation's agricultural agency, the largest one in the world, has said time and time again that if people don't consume less meat we're going to be completely fucked in the next 50 years as population rises and developing countries switch to the meat-heavy Western diet.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet

>>4572480
>Derp
>Herp

Yeah, mate. You realize it's possible to grow enough meat to ensure no one starves without actually actively feeding them? Right?

You realize that it is literally impossible to grow enough vegan acceptable veggies on this planet without doing shit like altering the water tables, fertilizing, and the like?

>>4572480

While I agree that he is dead fucking wrong, food sustainability is the absolute least of a problems right now. The problem is food logistics. Getting all the calories we produce where we need to go.

>>4572480
>It takes 13 lbs of grain to produce 1 lb of beef.
13 lbs. of shit tier grain not fit for human consumption. Beef can be grown on land not suitable for agriculture. Goat or sheep is much more efficient however.

>>4572487
>[Citations needed]
If you're going to try arguing against every agricultural organization in the world, you better provide more evidence than opinions pulled out of thin air.

I'm guessing you also think global warming is a myth, and that we should just dump oil and chemicals into the oceans because hey it's good for the environment.

>>4572485
Yes, and only five-10 years ago they said we'd be out of oil by 2030.

Even if what you were saying is true, market forces will correct themselves and there will be technological breakthroughs. We have the smallest herd of cattle in the history of the US, yet more meat per head offsetting this.

>>4572485
So let all the assholes causing overpopulation be vegan. Why should we have to deal with their problem? It's not Europeans and Americans causing gross overpopulation.

>>4572488
Which is directly related to calorie density, something that plants and the vegan diet massively lack.

>>4572500
Every agricultural organization in the world? Really?

>>4572499
because 'muh liberal logic'

The same logic that dictates that if we waste money on companies like Solyndra that the Chinese won't put up a coal plant every other week.

>>4572502

Eh, it's more to do with preservation methods, creating hardier crops for shittier growing grounds, and maybe starting some low grade terraforming.

Meats calorie density is all well and grand, but it doesn't do much good if it spoils before it gets where its going, or if its so heavy/so low priced that shipping it becomes non-feasible.

>>4572467
>#2 cause of greenhouse gas emissions
I bet #1 would be farting humans if somebody were to calculate that.
>species extinction (due to habitat loss)
That might be true, but those habitats would be lost, even if the crops were directly fed to humans instead to animals. One could argue that raising animals to feed people takes a lot more space than directly growing crops, but animals are very often held in areas, where crops can't be grown and harvested. Their food is also often grown on bad land, where nothing much else grows.
>resource use
Consider the following. A cow can eat plants and plant matter that no human could, they can be fed with grass and thus enable humans to indirectly use those calories as well. Pigs can be fed with leftovers or bio garbage like potato peels and such could serve as a very important way to reduce waste. Also you can't see an animal purely as a source of meat. Every single part of an animal can be used for completely food unrelated purposes. Leather, medicine, tools, makeup, chemicals, etc. Sure, you could probably grow equivalents from plants, but that cuts into the arable land.
Just consider the food shortages caused by bio fuel already.

Lastly, all the good land on our planet is already used for agriculture. Early human high cultures always sprang up in locations with good arable land. Those areas have been in use for a long, long time now. With the relatively recent explosion of global population, even more space had to be used to feed that population, so that today most good land is already in use and a good chunk of the bad land is also in use for animal food or grazing land.

>>4572441
>>protip: If you want to be Vegan, stick to moral arguments. Those actually have weight and validity. Science does not in any way bear out Vegan as being better than a rounded omnivorous diet nor is there proof eating meat will make the world end.

What about having to produce all the beef in farms for human consumption? you need to feed them and give them a lot of water (2500 gallons per pound):
http://www.vegsource.com/articles/pimentel_water.htm

on the documentary "Home" on youtube they went into detail. i don't recall the exact number. hopefully the website is accurate. it's some absurd number. this water then gets "exported" in forms of food to other areas. so wetter areas are getting wetter, and dryer areas are getting dryer.
Plus, you need thousands of cows, which all produce methane and other things too concentrated on one particular area.

The industrialization is the true enemy with meat. But since we are so many, it's the only way to keep it cost effective.

look at this:
http://vimeo.com/57126054
it's from the beautiful documentary "samsara" (there's a lot of pretty stuff unrelated to meat. this is in china, but it gives the idea how unnatural our process is).

big time TL;DR...

>>4572441
>protip: If you want to be Vegan, stick to moral arguments.

Or better yet, don't try and make any arguments at all and just shut up and do it. It's all based in your own irrationalities anyways, but if it makes you feel better than whatever.

>>4572491
>Beef can be grown on land not suitable for agriculture
Yes, it can, but not nearly enough to feed even a small percent of the population. 99% of our meat comes from factory farms, not from cows living in deserted wastelands. Do you have actual logistics for this? What specific land are you talking about? Who owns that land? What is the acreage per head ratio? What is the accessibility for these sites?

There are currently over 1 billion cows, and we use 30% of the Earth's land surface for livestock. While it's nice to say, "Hey, we'll just let the livestock live in places we can't use readily for crops," it's just an armchair dream. It's like saying, "Why don't we have all our chemicals so that they make the oceans healthier rather than damaging it "Let's make coal power plants that produce zero greenhouse gas emissions."

Great idea. Doesn't work in reality. If you figure out all the logistics of this, and it actually works, then get back to us.

There's nothing wrong with eating a little less meat and dairy, most people eat too much dairy as it is. But it's STUPID to think the world can get by on a vegan diet. We weren't evolved to do so, and the planet can't take it. Enjoy your dustbowl. I'm now going to hide this thread, because this bullshit belongs on /pol/ or some shit.

>>4572531
>irrationalities
The only irrationality I see is people trying to convince themselves their actions have no impact on the world. "What, my burger is bad for the environment? Fuck you! A rainforest grows every time I take a bite."

FFS, if you want to eat meat eat meat, but let's not stick our heads in the sand about the realities of animal agriculture.

>>4572526
Your point?

Bro, I work in the oil industry -- well more correctly a supporting industry of the oil industry.

Last month we literally pumped a quarter million gallons of water into a ditch.

We also pumped over 4 million barrels of water that was then mixed with salt to form what's known as 10 lbs water (referring to the weight per gallon) to be pumped down into the ground.

Our company, since January alone has pumped over 180 million barrels of water (barrel being 42 gallons). We are one of nine companies serving this same industry.

>>4572264
sage

>>4572537
>plant foods use less resources, produce more calories per acre, and less GHG emissions and pollution. But the planet can't take it.

>>4572539

Of course actions have impact. The thing that vegans don't seem to grasp is that impact doesn't mean the end of the world.

The Earth as a biosphere constantly adapts. Look at cities. Pigeons, rats, all manner of little pests had an absolute population boom.

The environment always adapts to our actions.

>>4572548
They don't produce more calories per acre. This is abjectly wrong, especially when you consider animal byproducts such as milk and egg production.

>>4572533
So, what are you going to do with all the Freedom Cows that have been liberated, then? They have to live somewhere. Or do you propose disposing of an entire domesticated species (which could have been used as a food source), to make more room for your GMO soy, wheat, and corn?

>>4572542
Your point?

Oil industry uses lots of water, therefore we should just not care about water usage and eat as many hamburgers as we want?

Nobody is arguing that the oil industry doesn't negatively impact the environment, how is this related to the thread?

>>4572548
You fucking moron. Get your head out of your ass and realize there's other parts of the planet besides the atmosphere. Over farming leads to dead earth, you twitnipple.

>>4572549
>The environment always adapts to our actions.
The 1000+ species that are going extinct every year disagree. Unless you plan on us bringing everything back to life Jurassic Park style in the future?

>>4572564

What's your point? Things have been going extinct for as long as there has been life. They didn't adapt, they died. Either their niche no longer existed or they were out competed by something else.

Status Quo is death, life changes and adapts.

>>4572542
my point:
eat organic meat, if you have to. i'm not vegan. nor vegetarian. i just don't eat meat often. and fuck chicken (whenver i can) cause it grosses me out (how they keep them, what they feed them, hormones, etc..).

i'm against extremes. i think a balance is better. thing is, there are so many delicious vegetarian (and vegan) options to eat, which are healthier...

i think "Food, Inc." also went into detail of how meat is directly related to cancer (studies done in norway and japan i think). i don't want to go into detail to not bore you guys.
if you are curious, i recommend these documentaries. They are interesting and actually fun to watch...

i work with fruits. we import fruits. it's somewhat similar. you turn all that water in poorer countries into fruits, then export it to a water rich area, and then the consumers defecate and release said "water" into their area, thus continuing the trend of exporting water...

there are WAY too many issues here at hand.
my suggestion? try and reduce it. look for alternatives. and if doubtful, look for information on subject. i personally really like veggies. they taste great! every now and then i'll have a barbecue. i try and buy organic whenever i can...
i think it's a fair approach...

>>4572564
environment!=species


Anyway, were we to suddenly all to turn vegan, what would happen with game species such as deer?

>>4572560
Over 50% of grain produced is fed to livestock, you know. Meat production results in more farming, not less.

Not to mention meat production is one of the leading causes of soil degradation. According to the UN, 70% of all grazing land in dry areas is degraded due to overgrazing, compaction, and erosion from livestock.

http://www.fao.org/ag/magazine/0612sp1.htm

>>4572570
Yes, things have been going extinct for a long time. But not at this rate. Human actions are directly causing mass extinction, simply from our selfishness and ego. We overfish the oceans to the point that all the fisheries collapse, we level 70% of the Amazon Rainforest to use for livestock grazing for our hamburgers. And then we go, "it's okay guys it's natural"

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Holocene_extinction_event.html

>>4572574
>i think "Food, Inc." also went into detail of how meat is directly related to cancer
yeah, vegetarians have a 20% less risk of cancer and 25% less risk of dying from heart disease. that is reason enough for me to cut down my meat to one meal per day

you know, posting any points trying to defend veganism, even if there is a kernel of reasoning (though the conclusion is still flawed), in a thread where vegans make themselves out to be shitheads by posting it in the first place isn't really helping your case.

>>4572615
Bullshit comparison.
If you compare 1000 vegetarians with 1000 meat eaters, you essentially compare 1000 people who are guaranteed to think about what they eat with 1000 people who may or may not invest the same amount of thought.

>>4572264
Vegan circlejerk thread? Vegan circlejerk thread.

>cars, the oil industry, and infrastructure all damage the natural environment
>better stop driving altogether then!

>>4572597
What you still aren't getting through that thick head of yours is that over farming crops for HUMANS will result in dead earth. We can only eat a few grain species, a certain number of weeds, a handful of wild fruits, and cultivated fruits and vegetables. If you replace the the crops grown for livestock with more soy, wheat and corn for humans, you will be creating vast patches of dead earth. Soil doesn't do well growing the same crops year after year. Farmers know this and rotate their crops from field to field. But take that on a larger scale, one that's meant to feed the entire earth, and you'll have some HUGE problems.
Also
>actually listening to anything James Cameron says
>my sides

>>4572610

It doesn't matter if its natural or not, because, once again, the system will always adapt and change, even if we make "environmental" decisions, all we're doing is changing the system in a way that hippie liberal environmentalists think it should go, namely in trying to maintain the status quo.

As for your point on extinction, it's still an absolute drop in the bucket compared to the number of species that have gone extinct prior to mankind even existing.

Shit dies all the fucking time. A large part of that "mass extinction" are creatures that lived in such a fucking specific niche that it was a miracle that they existed for any time at all.

None of it matters. Things will die due to our actions, things will thrive due to our actions, and we'll just keep on keepin' on, because we are the most fucking adaptive creatures on Earth.

>>4572630
Most studies are simply based upon consumption of meat. The more meat someone eats, the higher their risk of cancer and most diseases. Someone who eats meat 3 times a die is more likely of dying than someone who eats it once a day. It's not about vegetarian vs meat eater.

Harvard's nurse study, the most comprehensive nutrition study ever done, showed that more meat = more death

>>4572638
>. If you replace the the crops grown for livestock with more soy, wheat and corn for humans
<triple face palm>

Soy, wheat, and corn ARE what we feed to livestock, dude. If animal agriculture was removed there would be LESS of those crops, not more, because we feed the majority of them to animals.

More than two-thirds of all agricultural land is devoted to growing feed for livestock, while only 8 percent is used to grow food for direct human consumption, LEAD reported. If the entire world population were to consume as much meat as the Western world does-176 pounds of meat per capita per year- the global land required would be two-thirds more than what is presently used, according to Vaclav Smil, professor of environment and geography at the University of Manitoba and participant in the EVP study.

http://woods.stanford.edu/environmental-venture-projects/consequences-increased-global-meat-consumption-global-environment

Since we already use 30% of the Earth's land surface for livestock production, using two thirds more isn't even feasible, dude.

>>4572646
Even if what you're saying is true, and it's fucking not, all that means is that there is more proof that the world is a fucked up place and shitheads like you will live a few miserable years longer in a bullshit world where fucktarded attitudes don't mean anything.

>>4572666
"Red meat: in addition to raising the risk for colorectal cancer and other health problems, it can actually shorten your life. That's the clear message of the latest research based on data from two ongoing, decades-long Harvard School of Public Health studies of nurses and other health professionals. It appears "healthy meat consumption" has become an oxymoron."

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mens_Health_Watch/2012/June/cutting-red-meat-for-a-longer-life

>>4572264
He made some shitty movies and now he's an authority? Oh, right, it's because he agrees with you.

You can't trust every millionaire chucklefuck with a Messiah complex.

>>4572681
you're stupid and worthless. Citation: this thread

>>4572665
You fucking idiot. Livestock is fed much more crops than soy, wheat and corn. Crops that have an important place being grown, some of which actually help enrich the soil in between nutrient sucking crops like corn and soy. PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.

some people in this thread remind me of my grandpa
he smoked a pack a day and whenever someone said smoking is bad for health he just got angry and denied it no matter what studies we showed him
and of course he died of lung cancer :\
life is about moderation
meat is not bad for your health in small amounts but you can't eat 300lbs a year like Americans do and not expect a triple bypass eventually

>>4572687
What crops are you talking about? What is the ratio of those crops to soy, corn, and wheat? You still haven't provided a single study yet. Nor have you addressed the fact that 70% of all grazing land is degraded due to livestock. Nor the fact that production of grains would DECREASE if meat production ceased, rather than increase.

Get back to when you have actual statistics, not just baseless opinions.

>>4572709
Well, actually, agricultural societies who were for the most part vegetarian had smaller citizens, worse teeth and more other assorted diseases than societies who ate a lot of meat.
Romans and Germans are an example.
But this of curse was in a time were people led active lifestyles with completely organic food and not nearly enough to overeat like we can today.
Which only shows that our problem is not our food, but rather our lifestyle of driving everywhere and not moving all day.

>>4572681
>>4572681
>These people also tended to weigh more, exercise less, smoke tobacco more, and drink more alcohol than healthier people in the study. Yet even when the researchers compensated for the effects of unhealthy lifestyle, mortality and meat remained associated.
And yet no mention of any methodology, nor how the fuck you're supposed to compensate for the differences. That makes absolutely no scientific sense whatsoever. This thread is shit, as all vegan threads are on this board, because all the vegans who post this shit are shitheads. Thread hidden, wish I had a 4chan nuke so I wouldn't have to hide this worthless shit every goddamned time I come

>>4572267
"Doing this would change the 'contract between the human species and the natural world' from the world being our bitch, to us being the world's bitch."

>>4572735

fuck you, I was out working in the yard all day. Where's my STEAK!?

>>4572751
Ever since the new vegan world order took over, meat eating was outlawed. Now get yourself to the nearest correctional facility to check your privilege of having a job with fresh air.

I have no doubt he is sincere. on the other hand, be careful. I like meat, but have avoided many cured or processed meats. I like brown rice, not news to me. I like yogurt and buttermilk. better than ice cream and never liked sweet soda. but be wary... especially after a big flop.

This shit is still here but the Japanese food pics were somehow lowering the quality of /ck/...

>>4572808
What?

>>4572808

Are you still bitching about Moot deleting the Japanese food thread that was literally started with an image of spaghetti and meatballs?

>>4572808
Agreed, /ck/ needs a mod.

>>4572808
If you don't like a thread then just hide it, no need to bump it with a complaint.

>>4572808
The "/ck/-is-my-personal-blog" Jap was shit, just as the vegan trolling is shit. BOTH need to eventually be removed altogether from /ck/. At least now that the blogspammer was kicked we have one less shit thread to deal with.

>>4572395
otay George, that meme is old. andi Jason Alexander,is a pretty good actor and a decent guy. bet he is is tired of it. unless you want to bring out the festivas pole. You are right. for a generation, he was everyman.

>>4572860
what thread on here meets your standards?

>>4572881
All of the ones currently on the front page minus this one and the animal welfare bullshit. Surprising that we don't have a ramen or a tipping thread right now.

>>4572860
A thread on bigmacs is better than a thread vegnaism?

>>4572879
>that meme is old.
There's a meme police now?

I agree, i try to limit my meat intake to small servings only every two or so days.

I think we have a responsibility to push for more ethical and sustainable food production.

>>4573135
Holy shit someone reasonable in this thread.

>>4572899
It's better than the multiple vegan threads a day, that's for damn sure.

>>4572264
This guy is so far up his own ass it would take some of the equipment he used to dive to the lowest depths of the ocean to retrieve him from there.

>>4573214
Doesn't mean he's not right about this.

>>4573227
Except he's not. How would not eating a particular animal, like for instance chickens, change our contact with their entire species? I mean, we started eating them and it hasn't changed our contact either, they just waddle about clucking, mostly ignoring us unless you run at them. Aside from having more chickens out in the wild being eaten by carnivorous animals, even if the entire human population of earth would stop eating chickens, we would still have the same contact with them. I'm not saying chickens or other animals we breed for consumption are dumb, just that they are not social, and that in a sense, being that most of those are herbivores, their role in the ecosystem is mostly to be preyed upon, whether it is by us or other animals.

>>4573227
yeah it does.
Soybean production in Brazil is eating the fucking rainforest.
If you want to save the fucking planet from overconsumption, nuke china and India. A nation of 300 million changing their diet wont do shit compared to 1.7 billion.

>>4573251
Cameron said contRact.

>>4573259
Those 1.7 billion people are changing to an American diet because of the diffusion of our culture, and all our companies like McDonald's and KFC taking over there. So it's still all America's fault, let's not blame China.

>>4573260
I think my point still stands. The animals we breed for consumption are preys in the wild, and if the contract we have with them changes, the end point is still the same for them. The fact of the matter is that humans are omnivorous predators, we have to come to terms with that aspect of our nature, no matter how much we try to bury it.

>>4573259
>Soybean production in Brazil is eating the fucking rainforest
Yep, and all of that soy is produced for the livestock industry. 98% of soy meal is fed to livestock. Humans eat a very small percentage of the soy we produce, it's all for the meat industry to fatten up cows.

http://www.soyatech.com/soy_facts.htm

>>4573262
>lets not blame china
Okay miss/mister americentric/eurocentric. Lets not blame the insane food consumption/ oil consumption/ raw material consumption of a nation of one point fucking seven BILLION people, because they arent fucking white as your pale ass.
I bet you suck tumblr social justice dong and you think everything is america's fault too, doncha. Fucking moron.
Did you know that the US has the most protected land in the world? Did you know we have stupidly harsh laws to protect said federal land? Did you know that because of china's booming population, the south pacific trash gyre has grown more than 150% in the last 15 years? Did you know that China consumes more food than any other fucking nation on the planet because it has 6 almost 7x the population of the US?

TL;DfuckinR, you are a fucking numbskull

Get shrecked, shithead.

>>4573280
>humans are predators
Stick a bunny and a bowl of fruit into a pen with a toddler. It will eat the fruit and play with the bunny. Predator my ass. A real predator would eat the bunny, eating the fur, veins, organs, and all. Humans have no predator instincts. Our early ancestors were mostly scavengers.

>>4572747
>being the world's bitch
you mean being a part of an ecosystem instead of a virtually limitless parasite?

>>4572751
Extremism and idealism are the reason the human race is fucked. Personally, I don't eat meat at all. I don't push my diet on other people, but to try to raise awareness that the amount of meat we should consume has been swayed and the meat industry is catering to this in ways that harm the planet.

>>4573284
Per capita Americans consume far more resources and produce more pollution and greenhouse gases than Chinese. Don't pretend America gives a shit about the environment.

>>4573285
hunter gatherers
both hunting & trapping animals has been around for a long long time

>>4573281
>http://www.soyatech.com/soy_facts.htm
You are dense as fucking sin.
>About 85 percent of the world’s soybeans are processed, or "crushed," annually into soybean meal and oil. Approximately 98 percent of the soybean meal that is crushed is further processed into animal feed with the balance used to make soy flour and proteins. Of the oil fraction, 95 percent is consumed as edible oil; the rest is used for industrial products such as fatty acids, soaps and biodiesel.

>95 percent is consumed as edible oil; the rest is used for industrial products such as fatty acids, soaps and biodiesel.

Soybeans are very fucking oily. Very. Fucking. Oily. and you know who uses soy oil to the tune of a shitfuck more than the US? South america, India, and fucking China.

>>4573285
When I was 7 I got lost in the wood for 3 days. I killed both a rabbit and squirrel with stones and ate both raw.

When I was 34 I met a 14 year old online and later found out it was Chris Hansen.

Tell me Im not a predator.

>>4573289
listening to numbers given by the chinese government is like beleiving that north korea is the best fed and best educated country in the world.

They make up fucking statistics.

>>4573285
The toddler example is just plain retarded. Predatory animals at the same level of development don't have great hunting instincts either. Puppies, kittens, even birds of prey, they all have to be fed by their parents and taught how to hunt.

The neanderthals we evolved from may have been scavengers but humans cultivated crops and domesticated livestock for literally thousands and thousands of years.

>>4573295
Soybeans are only 18% oil.

>>4573289
That's a red herring. We all know the asians don't need calculator which produce a significant portion of the United States carbon foot print.

Take your racism back to stormfront.

>>4573304
Who said anything about numbers given by the Chinese? Even based on the US's own statistics per capita Americans produce far more greenhouse gases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhouse_gas_emissions_per_capita

>>4573305
>Puppies, kittens, even birds of prey, they all have to be fed by their parents and taught how to hunt.
My cat grew up in a shelter, never learned how to hunt, and still hunts birds. Many domesticated dog breeds aren't predatory. Birds of prey are fed by their mothers when they can't yet fly and are helpless. Toddlers are strong enough to kill small animals and stick them in their mouths. They choose not to. Why? No predatory instincts in humans, that's why.

>>4573316
>per capita

Yes, per capita we consume more.

Our 'capita' is around 300 million to 400 million.
their 'capita' is 1.3 to 1.6 billion.

ie; statistically speaking of course, you are a moron

>>4573324
>>domesticated dog breeds aren't predatory
>>domesticated

No shit.


>>4573324
I ate our kitten when I was a toddler. We got a dog I couldn't fit in my mouth after.

>>4573324
>My cat grew up in a shelter, never learned how to hunt, and still hunts birds.
your cat is grown. Its innate nature tells it to hunt.
>Birds of prey are fed by their mothers when they can't yet fly and are helpless.
This is true. They then learn from their parents how to fly hunt and sing, depending on species.
> Toddlers are strong enough to kill small animals and stick them in their mouths.
Yep they could potentially strangle small rodents.
> They choose not to.
Someone has never had to pull a kitten away from a 2 year old who decided it was nice and crunchy, or has never raised children.
Also, I am an adult. When I see a wild animal that is food, I think of it as food. I look at a deer. Venison. I look at a hog. Hog tenderloin.

You are, unfortunately, the wonderful doting creature we call a city imbecile. The city imbecile looks at a deer and thinks 'pretty', or a hog and thinks 'piggy'. The city imbecile has no knowledge of weapon fashioning, how to make a flint arrowhead or a rudimentary spear. How to fire a bow, or maintain a bowstring. Most are horrifically afraid of guns, and do not even attempt to handle them. You are born, bred, and raised to fear fending for yourself, therefore you wish to be controlled and protected by 'authority' to alleviate your fears of the unknown. This is why the 'city imbecile' tends to lean towards an authoritarian state, and notably vote left leaning.

Basically, you are a pussified version of homo sapiens. Congrats on that, I guess.

>>4573324
I said at that they don't have great hunting instincts/skills at the same level of development as a human toddler. Keeping that in mind:

Your cat is probably at a mature age, so even if it doesn't know how to hunt as well as one who was reared to hunt, its latent instincts kicked in.

Have you ever spent any time with dogs? They have predatory instincts too, no matter how "domesticated" or untrained.

Those young birds of prey are just like human toddlers... So, you just implicitly agreed with me. They both don't have full motor or cognitive skills and are helpless against potential predators. Animals are able to hunt and fend for themselves when they reach maturity. Toddlers haven't reached maturity. They're about as ready for the world without their parents as a baby bird is.

>Toddlers are strong enough to kill small animals and stick them in their mouths [...] They choose not to.
First of all, what small animal can a toddler catch? Those small animals are either a.) babies who are being protected by a larger, aggressive adult, who WILL attack and hurt the human baby, or b.) small but have reached maturity, which means they have mastered dexterity and survival instincts to outrun/outwit a half gooey human toddler. This has nothing to do with whether or not humans have a predatory instinct, but all to do with specimen maturity.

Second of all, have you ever spent time with toddlers? They will try to grab things that move and stick it in their mouths. It doesn't matter if they're worms, stinkbugs, cockroaches, crayons, what have you.

>>4573285
humans have few instincts, they need to be taught just about everything more advanced than breathing.

if you killed rabbits in front of a toddler and taught him how to wring their necks, he would be pretty good at it by the time he was 10 years old.

>>4573343
Dont forget, if he voted left he's also a nigger lover.

>>4573326
And yet even though China's population is more than 4 times larger than ours, they don't produce that much more GHG emissions than us even looking at the total. US is 18% of global emissions, and India is only 5% so whoever said India is a problem is an idiot.

Americans are wasteful. Period. Though apparently Australia produces even more GHG per capita. WTF are you doing Australians?

>>4573343
>city imbecile
Aka people who make up the majority of the population and are the ones contributing to the country's GDP. No one is useful to society sitting out in the woods making spears so they can go kill a wild boar and then eat it with their 20 siblings that have genetic mutations from inbreeding.

>>4573352
>First of all, what small animal can a toddler catch?

Insects, lots and lots of insects.

>>4573354
>humans have few instincts
Yes, we're products of our cultures. People are neither naturally carnivores nor naturally vegans. If you raise a kid either way, he will be that way.

>>4573373
>he thinks sipping lattes and doing bank work is contributing to anything
>not farming delicious crops and feeding the world
>not laying down and developing state of the art fiber optics
>not poking dead things with sticks innawoods and writing doctoral thesis on it

Man you kids these days are delusional, I bet you think the space program is useless because it hurts the atmosphere or something, shit.

Still makes you a pussified version of our species. Pretty sad, really.

>>4573373

90% of the US's GDP is from factory farming of livestock and agriculture which we export all over the world.

But you can't expect a vegan to know this when they're so pumped full of pills and non-fat gluten free free-range non-cruelty open source non-gmo peanut butter to think.

>>4573373
I've lived in two cities, and I'll never go back. You are rude, selfish, and outright sociopathic people; and the fact that you accuse non-city-fags of being spear-chucking incest-babies speaks much to your ignorance.

>famous person becomes a vegan
>everyone else should too!

You are all sheep

tfw this thread when from some famous person being vegan to urban vs rural living

>>4573448

It's a fashion fad, what do you expect.

>>4573442
You write a long paragraph insulting people who live in cities, then complain when they insult you back? If you pick a fight, don't whine when the person hits back.

>>4573424
>90% of the US's GDP is from factory farming
I'm certain this is a joke, but since people say ridiculous shit on /ck all the time I'll reply just in case. US GDP:

Capital goods, 27.9%; industrial supplies and materials (except oil fuels), 24.8%; consumer goods (except automotive), 11.8%; automotive vehicles and components, 9.4%; food, feed, and beverages, 8.6%; fuel oil and petroleum products, 7.6%; aircraft and components, 6.1%; other, 3.8%.

>>4573448
>Parents feed you meat
>Friends around you eat meat
>McDonalds commercials on TV say to eat a bigmac
>You eat meat
Everyone is a sheep.

>>4573467
That was my first post in this thread. Learn to anonymous. Also, learn to argue without strafing with wide-sweeping bigotry.

>>4573503
There is a difference between doing what is natural and what someone famous does just to seem "different"...

>>4573519
How is eating meat natural? We eat meat because our parents feed it to us and it is a part of our food culture. If you grow up in a vegetarian community in India it's natural to not eat meat. It's all a matter of what is the norm in our culture.

>>4573526
Except man has been eating meat for 3 million years and the body we have today is designed to handle both meat and veggies.
Oh wait, but of course we got brainwashed by the media and our parents to eat cute little animals.

The only real culture related thing is that humans have become spoiled. We can afford to no longer see animals as food because in this world we don't necessarily need them to survive. But saying that 'eating meat is not natural' is just plain bullshit.

>>4574055

Lol it's because we ate meat our brains evolved into the way they have. Fucking ignorant malnourished vegan christian scumbag

>Starchless Sunday as opposed to Meatless Monday

Fund it.

>>4572264
Oh look, another rich man telling to common people to consume less resources. What's wrong, are your population control schemes projected to not be as effective as you once hoped?

>>4574088
>implying population control isn't a good thing
>implying violent overbreeding isn't synonymous with poverty
>implying India's rural birth rate hasn't dropped sharply as the country modernizes

>>4574060
That is actually thanks to shellfish. Which literally supercharged our brains' evolution.

>>4574119
>shellfish
Which is meat.

I don't support vegetarianism/veganfaggotry in any way. But I do think that modern humans consume too much meat.

It's only been in recent times that refrigeration made long-term meat storage viable and corporate farming made meat cheaply available. For the majority of human history meat was a scarcity because it was expensive to procure, reserved for special occasions or served as seasonal treats. A lot of traditional foods reflect this. You'd reserve animal fat for cooking, stretch every bit of meat in stews or vegetable dishes, cook the entire animal (bones for stock, marrows scraped, skulls and feet eaten), etc..

Go back further than your parents' generation and you'll see that meat entrees weren't daily stars at the dinner table. There's a reason why Sunday roasts feature so prominently in American nostalgia--it was a special, once-a-week event. And meat scarcity also the reason almost every country in the world has a strong tendency for protein-heavy bean-based traditional recipes.

>>4574234

That hasn't changed, my entire family does not go through 15 steaks a week, at most we will go through a tube of hamburger in a week, and then we have chicken or tuna, that's also most families that I know of. The difference is, when you have millions of people, you consume millions of cow to feed that much people.

Slaughterhouses use every part of the cow, a good amount of the bones and blood goes into making pills and vitamins to give to Vegans, the vitamins themselves are extracted from animal parts.

The only true evil of the animal farming industry is the cruelty involved in some of these companies.

But Veganism is at it's heart anti-poverty. It is soley the domain of rich, self important white people who have never struggled just to HAVE food.

>giving a flying fuck about some douche from the loony left has to say
>about anything

>>4574249
> is at it's heart anti-poverty

Poor, bitter white person who struggled just to HAVE food detected.

Maybe you should have pulled yourself up by your bootstraps.

>>4574253

Looks like I touched a nerve

>>4574257

Really, which nerve? Because I'm not white and not pro-vegan. I just happened to notice that you can't tell the difference between "its" and "it's". Typically it's you uneducated types who get worked up over edumucated self-important rich people trying to tell us hard working honest real murrkins how to live.

So perhaps when you say "touched a nerve" you are projecting a bit, yes?

>>4574258

so mad vegan-boi

>>4574234
I'm with this Anon. The whole vegetarian/vegan thing because ethical reasons grates on me, yet I eat what amounts to a vegan diet most of the time. Because that just seems sane to me.

The biggest problem with the Western diet in general, and the American diet in particular is that the kind of meals we consider "everyday meals" are what generations past would have had for special occasions. There's a tendency to eat as if every day were a feast day, because we can. Feasting all the damn time can't be a good thing.

Also I don't trust that the production methods that allow us to have such cheap meat and dairy result in particularly healthful products, so that's another reason I consume them infrequently.

>>4574269

Oh, you're "everyone whose values differ even slightly from mine is a vegan" guy? You might want to see a psychiatrist about that.

>>4574275

>gets completely anally devastated when someone criticizes vegans
>not a self-important white american woman

You're bad at this

>>4574258
You never said anything about grammar in your first response...
He never said that rich people were telling everyone else to be vegan, just that the fact that they are rich is what allows them to be vegan...
The only projection happening right now is your own. Which should be obvious since this person didn't even defend himself when you jumped down his throat.

>>4574275
Lmfao WHO thinks that way?
>"Different opinion? Ohhh, you must be a vegan then. There's probably maybe one person in the world who shares every opinion that I have, IF that, so I must be the only person who is not a vegan."
Wait... What? Did I read that wrong?

James Cameron is a hack director and vegan threads are not /ck/ unless they are specifically discussing recipes and cooking.

Personally I think Americans eat too much starch, not too much meat.

The way to a man's heart is through his stomach.
Unless he's a vegan, then you can go directly through his vagina.

As soon as you make a substitute with the same texture, taste, and variety in preparation while also providing complete proteins, then sure, I'll stop eating meat.

Until then, fuck off

I think the whole problem with talking about this topic is that people tend to look at it from a black and white perspective, which is just fucking silly.Never eating meat is just as stupid as having to have it at every meal. There's so much good stuff to eat out there it's pretty easy to eat well (and reasonably ethically, if you give a shit about that) without going to extremes.

While it is true that we as a culture eat entirely too much meat, it is still an essential part of our diet, Meat should really be only eaten about four to five times a week.

>>4574442
Ah. a reasonable argument. It will be promptly ignored

>>4574447
An astute observation. I will be severely offended for no reason and express my hypothesis that you are a person who enjoys musical theatre.

>>4574450
Good sir. While I do enjoy musical theatre, I am not of the homosexual persuasion. In fact I have an heir on the way.

>>4574455
Then congratulations are in order. Let us disperse of this unpleasant talk. I'll have the butler bring out my finest brandy.

>>4574470
Brandy? At this hour? Surely Scotch is more in order.

heaven

>>4574455

>Implying gays don't have children

people = the only real invasive species

>>4574442
>it is still an essential part of our diet,
In what way? There's not a single nutrient in meat that can't be obtained from vegetarian/vegan sources. And the vegetarian sources usually have the added benefit of 0 cholesterol, low saturated fat, high fiber, and phytochemicals.

>>4574542

Reshared and upvoted for all my kawaii vegan friends
hehe the only tru aninimal es hooman xDDD

>>4574548
People always say that but I've never met a vegetarian who was fit. I don't mean "looks skinny", I mean fit as in running in marathons healthy.

Anyway, as much as vegfags argue, no vegetable source provides heme iron, which is why so many of them have to take supplements. If your diet means you have to take pills to complete it, it's not the "natural" one, buddy.

>>4574566
>I've never met a vegetarian who was fit. I
Lots of people I know who eat lots of meat are fat as hell. Does that mean meat = fat and unhealthy? No, it's just our anecdotal experiences. There are plenty of professional vegetarian and vegan athletes. Carl Lewis, a vegan, won 9 Olympic gold medals, making him one of the very top athletes in the world. It was after turning vegan that he broke the world record in 100m sprint in 1991. Current welterweight boxing champion of the world, undefeated in his career, uses a vegan diet for his training because he says it gives him more energy and power.

Just Google "vegetarian athletes" and you'll find lists of athletes.

There's lots of people who eat meat that have anemia too. It's not simply a matter of heme vs non-heme iron. Sure, heme iron is easier to absorb, but so what? You can get 100% of the iron your body needs with non-heme regardless. Studies have shown that as a population vegetarians are no more likely to be iron deficient than meat eaters.

veganism is merely denial and self loathing as eating habits

>>4574637
I googled Carl Lewis and found a bunch of stuff on how being vegan probably affected his performance in the long run.

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/carl-lewis-vegan/

Human beings have always been an omnivorous race. We hunted and we gathered. We farmed and we raised animals for food. It wasn't until very recently that an all vegetarian option became viable. There are some great vegetarian recipies, but the hardcore vegans who insist on forcing their beliefs on others are really only hurting their case in the long run.

>>4574716
>It wasn't until very recently that an all vegetarian option became viable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_vegetarianism#Historical_and_Latter_Hinduism

>Jain and Buddhist sources show that the principle of nonviolence toward animals was an established rule in both religions as early as the 6th century BC.

Why is /ck/ so stupid?

what a faggot! I'm enjoying a nice steak right now with a spicy rub.

>>4574650
Because the conjecture of some meathead that can't acknowledge veganism is healthy, despite every major dietary association in the world saying it is, is more valid than Carl Lewis himself saying veganism improved his athletic performance? The dude shattered world records and won gold medals, what more do you want. No shit he got injuries and lost from time to time, so does every other athlete ever.

>>4574792

I find it hilarious that people still support store bought and organic produce after knowing that most factory and animal farming are run by companies in larger farming conglomerates. And often the meat industry they detest is selling them that lettuce.

And you can't sustain an athletic lifestyle on veganism without supplements that are again, made with animal parts.

Most studies say, which vegans overlook is that while there are distinct advantages to a vegan diet. If your average american adopted the same food into their diet and removed fast food they would be just healthy, and arguably healthier due to the more robust supply of vitamins that vegans can't get without inefficient and expensive vitamins.

>>4574783
>implying 2,600 years ago on a scale of over 50,000 years isn't "recent"

>>4574808
>And you can't sustain an athletic lifestyle on veganism without supplements that are again, made with animal parts.
Bullshit. Name a single micro or macro nutrient that is necessary for athletic performance and can only be found in animal products.

You can get every nutrient using either diet. Whether or not you win a gold medal comes down to genetics and training, not whether or not you had Indian food or ground beef for dinner.

>>4574812
>implying we actually know everything that happened in the last 50,000 years and can say there were no vegetarians in that time frame

JAMES CAMERON CAN EAT A BAG OF DICKS AND SO CAN ALL OF YOU.

>>4574819

Athletics come down to the delivery of energy, someone like Michael Phelps who broke so many records as well trained on a diet of stacks of pancakes covered in snickers and chocolate. You can look it up. He probably eats your entire weekly calorie intake in just one day in the off season. And during the Olympics, I can only imagine what he ate.

To each reach that level of intake, a vegan athlete probably has to eat a wheelbarrow full of peanut butter ever meal.
It has not as much to do with getting all the right vitamins, that is part of it, but it's also filling the furnace with coal and veganism cannot do that.

>>4574827
What are you talking about? Grains, legumes, nuts, seeds, sugars, oils, all the highest calorie dense foods are plant foods. Pancakes with chocolate = sugar, wheat, and fat. None of the calories in there are dependent on animal products. Do you seriously think chocolate with milk in it has less calories than chocolate that uses soy as an emulsifier instead of milk?

High-endurance athlete eat a shit ton of CARBS. Pasta, breads, you name it. Vegan foods.

Calories (energy) have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's plant based or animal based.

>>4574836

It wasn't just pancakes, most of what he ate used non-vegan products, stuff like steak and eggs which are incredibly efficient. Stuff like grains, beans and legumes are complex foods and so their energy release is much more prolonged and less immediate.

>>4574840
"Breakfast included three fried egg sandwiches, an omelete, a bowl of grits, French toast and three pancakes, while lunch and dinner included a pound of pasta at each meal, along with an entire pizza, all washed down with energy drinks and shakes."

Bowl of grits. Toast. Pound of pasta at each meal. Pizza that gets lots of the calories from wheat and oil. Energy drinks and shakes which are simple sugars. Pancakes which have most calories from wheat and syrup.

High endurance athletes don't get their carbs from eating steak, dude, they get it from grains and sugar. Which are vegetarian foods.

Is nutrition not taught in US schools? I can't believe people actually think eggs, milk, and bacon are the primary source of energy for the body.

>>4573287
>humans are parasites

ow that edge

>>4574917

>>4572467
corn-fed meat is the #2 cause of gweenhouse gwasses.

>>4572520
vegans hate GMO though. Don't know why. Golden rice would solve a lot of problems and it's not like there are any vegan geneticists

>>4574928
In other words 99% of meat

>>4574924

Is this vegan equivalent of jew comics?

>>4574941
>jew comics?
?

>>4574928

Wrong, the #1 cause is decaying plants, the #2 is volcanos.

>>4572526
>when meat drinks water, that water disappears forever

>>4572526
>cows, which all produce methane
a result of diet, not because they're there at all. maybe you should educate yourself on that

>>4572681
The healthiest people are not vegans, the least healthy are meat eaters. The most healthy are also meat eaters, but there are a whole load of meat eaters.
There are no vegan slum dwellers.

>>4574946
Google about water scarcity and the developing water crisis. The water used for beef production does not simply re-enter the water cycle and all is fine and dandy.

>>4574961
Which is why vegetarians live longer, have 25% less risk of dying from heart disease, and 20% less risk of cancer?

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/337301

>>4574967

It totally makes sense to live your entire life in misery eating grass so you can live longer and eat more grass. Why would you want to live 20% longer? Why is this such an obsession.

>>4574971
Grass? I just had some blueberry pancakes for breakfast. For lunch I'm going to have pad Thai, chocolate cake for dessert.

>>4574973

Oh god it's dry and cracked.

>>4574973

Just like you can eat ribs every night once you buy a soybean mold, amirite?

>>4574974
>Oh god it's dry and cracked.
Yep, because it's made with eggs and milk. That's a random Google pancake, not a vegan one.

>>4574967
Again, people in dire conditions eat anything and are therefore not vegetarians.
Also, gluttons who eat everything are not vegetarians
countries who lack the resources to sustain a vegetarian diet also lack the resources to maintain good public health.
Only the richest 5% can afford to go full vegetarian/vegan. The richest 5% are also the only group that can afford to survive heart disease and cancer

>>4574975
Ethnic cuisines like Indian, Thai, etc. are some of the most flavorful and rich foods out there, and are hugely vegetarian.

As for cake, vegan desserts taste the same. No one can tell in a blind taste test. Vegan bakers have won plenty of food contests competing against the traditional egg/butter/milk style of baking. Like Chloe Coscarelli, who won Food Network's cupcake wars show with vegan cupcakes.

>>4574977
so I'm guessing you used that since there are no appetizing pictures of vegan pancakes

>>4574973
>wheat is a grass

>>4574979
>Only the richest 5% can afford to go full vegetarian/vegan
Vegetarian foods are much cheaper than meat, as they require far less resources to produce. A lb of rice or lentils vs a lb of beef, there is no comparison. You will get more calories for cheaper with grains/legumes. It's only with heavy subsidizing with tax payer money that meat and milk are as cheap as they are.

The amount I spend on groceries has been cut in half since I went vegetarian. A cheese pizza vs a cheese pizza with peperoni. Obviously the cheese pizza is cheaper.

>>4574981

Really, really, fucking cupcake wars? Why is it vegans always bring up the most inane self-afirmation google factoids to try and seem more holy than non vegans. You can't just be a vegan and not mention it every 5 fucking minutes.

Saying "A vegan won a reality TV contest so therefor vegan cupcakes are impossible to distinguish from real cupcakes" is like saying Country music is good because Carrie Underwood won American Idol.

>>4574981
>who won Food Network's cupcake wars show with vegan cupcakes.

Yeah, but that was probably with a subliminal handicap. Judges get notifications beforehand of contestants' entries being peculiar, so they probably bumped her up a few points because vegan, not taste.

It's the same theory as giving a special ed student a 4 second headstart before timing him for a 500m dash.

>>4574986

Okay, what do want for dinner? Pizza, Spaghetti, Hamburgers or 5 pounds of rice?

>>4574981
>As for cake, vegan desserts taste the same. No one can tell in a blind taste test.

Yeah... that's bullshit. I can see a vegan cake being great in its own right but you can't make a vegan cake that tastes like layered vanilla cake with whipped cream frosting and fresh berries in between then covered with chocolate ganache and toasted almonds.

>>4574991
Sugar and fat are the dominant tastes in baking. No one can tell if you use eggs/butter/milk in a chocolate cake by taste alone, those ingredients are their as emulsifiers, to bind, and for moisture to form a dough. Guaranteed in a blind taste test nobody can tell what is vegan and what isn't.

>>4574994
>Pizza, Spaghetti, hamburgers
Two of the foods you just named are vegetarian. Unless you ruin your pasta and pizza by putting cheap shit meat on it.

>>4574991

differentfag, and a carnivore. Saying 'group x ALWAYS does' is usually a sign you have no fucking argument and don't know what you're talking about.

>>4574996
Best chocolate ganache cake I've had in my life was from the Cinnamon Snail in NYC. They have a line blocks long every single day. Not because they're vegan, but because their baked goods are fucking delicious.

If you think vegan baking is inferior, you've either never tried it, or have some serious preconceptions creating a placebo effect on you.

For things like creme brulee, where the recipe is 90% egg, then yeah you won't get an identical taste with vegan baking. But for cupcakes, donuts, cakes, the vast majority of baked goods there is no difference.

>>4574994

>wut is a vegetable?

>>4574998

You unconsciously implied vegan food didn't have emulsifiers, which is a way of saying vegan desserts are dry unedible shit. Which from my experience is true.

Sorry, I eat lentils in my stew, but I'll also put chunks of chuck into it to. That just makes sense. There are healthy foods vegans eat, but when you say "vegan food is the most healthy diet" is misleading when you're comparing it to eating McDonalds. As someone who used to live in the bayou and cooks their own gumbo, Veganism isn't any healther than my diet which has 95% or more of what you eat, plus delicious fucking animals.

>>4574986
You are aware that it is impossible to make a healthy diet out of rice and lentils alone, right?

>>4575015
You are aware that it is impossible to make a healthy diet out of meat alone, right?

>>4575022
Almost as if I was advocating some sort of omnivorous diet. If only we had the digestive system to support such a thing.

>>4575022

>if you're not a vegan you eat 100% meat or mcdonalds and nothing else.

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

>>4575025
>if you ever have even looked at a piece of arugula you're a librul feminazi PETA fascist

cool story bro

>>4575023
If you're eating vegetables and fruits with your meat, how is that possibly cheaper than eating vegetables and fruits with lentils/grains?

The point is that as a base to a meal, vegetarian foods are cheaper. You will get more nutrients with less dollars than you would having meat in the meal.

An Indian dish of lentils simmered in tomato marinade, spices, and vegetables is cheaper than a meal of chicken/pork/beef with vegetables.

>>4575034

Try and rephrase that cause it came out as gibberish.

>>4575036
I'm really glad I don't have to scrimp and save to buy food. I feel sorry for you.

>>4575040

Farming vegetables covers every point on that list. Try harder self re-affirming faggot.

>>4575040
Apparently if we all became vegans no one would starve anymore.

>tumblr
Color me surprised.

>>4575042
Plant agriculture isn't nearly as destructive as animal agriculture. It's like comparing nuking someone versus firing a slingshot at them.

http://woods.stanford.edu/environmental-venture-projects/consequences-increased-global-meat-consumption-global-environment

>>4575036
If what you said is true, then why are the poorest of the poor not sticking to your budget diet?

Why is it that the poor who do eat this diet lack a choice of anything else?

Why is it only the rich can afford to choose this diet when alternatives exist?

>>4575049

>clearing the land for crop is better than clearing the land for animals. Why? B-bebebbebebecause TUMBLR SAID SO

>>4575048

>>4575055
You're free to eat as much grass as you want, m8. Me not eating something doesn't automatically make it appear on someone else's plate.

>>4575052
Because people are lazy and McDonalds are everywhere.

In developing countries animal foods are a minority of calories. It's only as economies grow that people can start affording the Western meat-heavy diet. Because meat is expensive as fuck compared to staple grains and legumes.

30% of India is vegetarian. Millions of people living in conditions you and I would consider extreme poverty. Hardly "the rich"

>>4575049

>ignores it requires vastly more land to grow crops to yield the same food production as cattle
>implying that growing crop is not highly regulated because of the dustbowls that killed thousands.
>implying decaying plants and volcanos don't vastly out produce cars in terms of carbon dioxide, not even counting animals which are far below that.

Naive vegan faggots I tell you.

>>4575055

The cattle produces more food per acre of space it occupies.

>>4575060
People starving is a matter of money, not food production. We produce more than enough food to feed the world population.

>>4575040
Malnourishment in the developing world is because we fed them, they multiplied, and we sstopped feeding them. Also, rice farmers can eat as much rice as they want, they're still dying of scurvy until GMO saves the day.
Animals are not a dead end in the water cycle
Everything humans do contribute to pollution, especially crop farming
Deforestation is a boogeyman as far as meat is concerned. Outside of Brazil it's hard to find amazon beef.
All human development causes species extinction
Nothing degrades land more than intense crop farming
Decaying plant material, most everything humans do, and volcanoes are bigger contributers

>>4575066
[Citation desperately needed]

Cattle is pretty much the least sustainable food source in existence. You can produce more calories per acre growing crops that have barely any calories, like tomatoes or green beans, than you can with cows.

>>4575064
Beef produces 1 million calories per acre. Potatoes produce 18 million. Corn produces 12 million. Wheat produces 6 million.

Learn 2 agriculture.

>>4575062
>In developing countries animal foods are a minority of calories
So that means everyone's vegetarian? I thought it meant everyone had a poor diet and died in their 40s

Also nobody is advocating 'meat-heavy' diets, they're as bad as meat-free diets without supplements.

>>4575071
Irish here. Relying solely on potatoes for sustenance is a solid plan.

>>4575070

Picture a head of lettuce faggot, now picture a cow. How much lettuce can you get for the space the cow occupies, It's called spatial relations, are you seriously this dumb?

Please tell me you're fucking joking when you say you can't mentally compare two objects of differing sizes. This is why veganism is a fucking mental illness.

>>4575055
>crop farming in africa doesn't lead to desertification

>>4575075

Yea that certainly worked out for Ireland.

>>4575073
I wasn't arguing about health, just the insane idea that only rich people eat vegetarian and that it's more expensive than meat. Meat is a luxury in many countries. Meat consumption increases as income increases. Poor people do not eat meat. Unless they live in the US with mass meat subsidizes and food coupons. And even then you'd still get more nutrients for less money eating vegetarian.

>>4575010
>If you think vegan baking is inferior, you've either never tried it, or have some serious preconceptions creating a placebo effect on you.

Like I said, I do enjoy it, but there's a right way to make things and then there's variations you can make if you have dietary restrictions. I'm not saying it's bad, it just can never be quite as good as the proper way executed perfectly.

And let's face it, if the "best" anything you've had came from a food truck, you have yet to try the actual best. I've had amazing stuff from a food truck but even then, restaurants just do it better because they aren't restricted. Same deal with the vegan substitutes.

Again, I have 0 problems with vegan alternatives and I think it's a very healthy way to eat that more people should probably try out, but why must Vegans insist that the equivalents to traditionally non-vegan items are "just as good or better". It makes no sense other than to make themselves feel comfort since they can't/won't eat the real thing.

>>4575075
Who the fuck is talking about only eating a single crop? Stop distorting facts. The fact is that pretty much every single crop produces more calories per acre than beef.

>>4575080
Yup. And in the rare case it doesn't we can always fall back on corn.

>>4575079

>mfw vegans think dustbowls never hurt anyone.

>>4575078
>Thinks people get all their calories from lettuce
Actually, lettuce does produce about the same amount of calories per acre as beef. 1.3 million.

Which just goes to show you how ridiculously unsustainable meat is, when LETTUCE for Christ's sake produces as much calories per land area.

>>4575087

I guess you can't grasp sarcasm, or you're not Irish. I bet you think Bono is just super hot and wished you were Irish.

>>4575091

Please make the hurting stop. You can't be this dumb.

>>4575067
>We produce more than enough food to feed the world population.

And still the problem is that "we" aren't just going to give it away because "we" are trying to make a profit.

>>4575088
Major source of soil degradation is livestock, you know.

http://www.fao.org/ag/magazine/0612sp1.htm

>>4575086
who the fuck is talking about eating only red meat? Stop distorting facts. The fact is that a large amount of land is unsuitable for growing crops that are suitable for human consumption

>>4575092
I'm Irish and you may want to have a quick search of the phrase 'Irish famine corn'.

>>4575098

>posts irrelevant googled article
>doesn't actually know what dustbowls are
>doesn't know there's a governmental agency JUST for preventing them.

>>4575103

Potato famine, try again buddy, you got your veggies wrong.

>>4575099
We've already gone through this argument. Read further up the thread. 30% of the Earth's land surface is already used for livestock. 70% of all grazing lands in dry areas is degraded due to livestock.

Is there land unsuitable for crops that can be used for livestock? Yes. But not enough for the 1 billion+ head we have, with that number growing exponentially as population increases.

If you want to make your argument, provide logistics.

This thread just proves to me that Vegans are some of the stupidest motherfuckers on this planet.

>>4575107
Oh, I see. I'm being coaxed into a snafu, aren't I?

>>4575108

>soil degradation from farming crop has never happened, will never happen, and crop farming is infinitely sustainable.

I'm out.

>>4575111

Just stop, Bono isn't your husbando.

Can all the children leave and stop making us meat eaters look like morons, please. Don't spout off bullshit without providing any citations. Environmental and resource costs of meat are well known facts of life. I swear to God people on this forum would argue that the Earth goes around the moon and not the sun too, then call others fags when they posted proof that it goes around the sun.

>>4575112
Way to miss the entire point? No one said crops don't cause any soil degradation, but it's nothing compared to animal agriculture. 50%+ of the crops are grown to feed to animals in the first place.

>>4575121

>North Ireland is tru Ireland

kay.

>>4572643

Oh my God, what a vain, childish point of view. The fact that you think the Earth will always adapt is fucking laughable. Keep your head stuck in the sand, you stupid cunt, it'll be easier for me to kill you so my species can actually survive.

>>4575115
Bono is as Irish as Pierce Brosnan, Michael Flatley, or Colin Farrell

>>4575124
Oh you. Norn Arelund is a UK shithole that no true Irishman would want tacked onto the republic

>>4575125
Don't pay too much attention, most of the morons on here are likely 12 year olds who worship meat because Luffy from One Piece likes it. Once they grow up, take some science classes, and learn about the world they'll look back in shame on their former selves.

>>4575129

I don't even have a problem with eating SOME meat. I just hate the fucking idea that we can keep doing what we're doing with no changes and we'll be fine.

I'm becoming a farmer for this exact reason. We are headed towards a very grim future, and I'd like to not be a part of it.

>>4575125
Earth doesn't even need to adapt. It'll be here long after humans are gone, with or without pygmy mouse lemurs.
Lets complain about all the oxygen in the atmosphere that's killing and restricting the anaerobes that lived long before humans infested their former ecosystems

>>4575123

You're telling me that it's not economically realistic to grown crop to feed animals, based soley on the fact that you have to grow something to feed another thing you grow. Those animals also grow poop to feed plants.

I grew up in Idaho and we have cows and potatos. Sorry but soil degradation is not only environmentally devastating, it has killed thousands. Clearing the land for cattle does not degrade the soil on the fact that you don't fucking farm livestock on farmland. Most livestock farming happens in areas unsuitable to grow crop, and often the only thing on there is top soil. Only in rural prairie farming do you have to regulate your farming because of concentrated animal soil killing plants just on the basis of there being too much shit and cow to get sunlight.

Sorry but vegans despite worshiping the plant, know absolute shit about farming.

>>4575137

>hurr durr my head is so small and my ego so big that I cannot fathom we might actually majorly be fucking things up here
>hurr de durp de duuuurrrrrrrrrrrr

Once again, once your pathetic little walls collapse, I will have no problem executing you and others like you for the continuation of my species.

>>4575135
Exactly. Meat in moderation is fine. But people who think we can produce as much as we want with no repercussions are naive as fuck. I hope 99% of the posts on here are trolls, because if the next generation is this ignorant and selfish we're completely fucked.

>>4575137
Get out, no one under 18 allowed on this board.

>>4575137

Yes I find it funny that vegans are so conceited and self important to think we are killing the planet. The earth will be here for billions of years after humans. I'm starting to feel like George Carlin every year. Longing for the death of humans.

>>4575143
Unless humans are literally cracking the planet in two, we are not making a lasting impact in the long run

>>4575150

You do realize that the things environmentalists worry about tend to affect HUMANS during our EXPECTED LIFESPAN, right?

Fucking retard.

>>4575143

The earth was molten for millions of years no-brain vegan scum fuck, it's survived countless extinctions and guess what 99% of the animals that have ever lived here are dead. Humans will just be next. We'll die and the Earth will keep spinning, until the end of time. A meteor will hit and we'll all die, and Earth will just keep going. Maybe a new intelligent species will rise, and then a billion years later they'll die. The cycle continues.

So stupid and self important, everything must be about the dumb little Vegan. But what Vegans are really saying is "LOOK EVERYONE! LOOK HOW MUCH I CARE! ;_;"

>>4575155
So, what you're saying is vegans are not environmentalists?

sage

>>4575155
>implying I have any regard for this fucked up species

I think Earth will be better off without us. The extinction of the human race can't come fast enough.

inb4 hurr durr kill yourself. You first, bitches.

>>4572341
Are you honestly trying to say alcohol is as related to the consumption of food as the eco system?

Also, how do you not consider alcohol a food? It has a nutritional value, essential nutrients, and in moderation promotes life longevity. Eco system in itself is not a food.