/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>implying anything can ever be considered vegan in an industrial society

>>4427936
I'm pretty sure they consider it a form of exploitation.

>>4427936
also contains animal proteins

nttawt

>>4427936
It's an animal product, so no, but I know several vegans that do eat it, even if I disagree with it.

I prefer agave nectar.

>>4427956
>I prefer agave nectar.
No you don't but you want the hipster cred so you eat it instead

i only eat plants that are grown in a huge bubble where nitrogen fixing bacteria have been carefully removed to a safe haven.

of course, all of my people die before the age of seven, so we have to kidnap babies from outside.

>>4427956
What does agave taste like in reference to honey?

I guess it would depend on the individuals reasons for adopting veganism, it's not like its a monoculture(despite the yuppie appeal it seems to be having as of late)

Some would say that bees are an animal of sorts and require the same respect that any other living creature deserves.

I am not one of those vegans. For me, honey is fair game because I want to enjoy it before it disappears. That and I don't see the exploitation of insects to really be an issue.

Industrial food production infests all aspects of contemporary capitalist society and there are few ways to escape it. So there is validity to saying that even vegetable based diets contribute to the environmental degradation that so many vegans obnoxiously preach about. As if your individual diet is somehow a revolutionary act.

This industrial process includes honey as well. There is exploitation involved in the process, the exploitation of human labour. Like any commodity, industrial honey is largely of poor quality as being more damaging to the bees(not that it really matters, but I imagine the waste of this process is great).

There are alternatives: expensive local varieties that may have better practices, or they may not one should always be mindful of these things

>>4427936

I don't know if it's vegan or not, but it's socialist.

it comes from animals. honey is produced for the bees. the queens wings are cut off to prevent them to move to a different location.

many vegans eat honey though, they believe that eating honey is better than not. why? Because bees are very important to the nature - flowers, trees, etc etc. Without them I wonder what our planet would look like.
Also - organic bee farms do not allow the queens wings to be removed. No harm done, other than that we steal the honey they produce for themselves.

>>4428071

I don't consider it vegan, anyway. I draw the line at fungi, even avoid such things as xanthan gum, and I refuse to use organisms that are part of the animal kingdom as bioreactors.

>>4427965

No, I really do. Honey burns a bit by being so sweet. It's really not pleasant for me.

>>4427974

It doesn't taste as... thick. It hasn't got that almost burnt caramel quality honey has on the back of your tongue. Other than that, it tastes pretty similar, sweeter and thinner though. It's better for you since it doesn't raise your blood sugars

>>4428085
>honey burns because it's so sweet, you say
>agave nectar is sweeter, you say

huh wow, I say

>>4428084
That leaves you with distilled water and some forms of lab-grown nuts.

>>4428145

I'd totally do my groceries from chemical suppliers if I could afford it.

>>4428109
I'm not very good at explaining! Honey has a caustic quality to it, at the back of my tongue. Agave nectar doesn't. It's not as heavy. It's sweeter, but it doesn't last in your mouth as long

>>4428085
> it doesn't raise your blood sugars

Yeah confirmed for flat out retarded I'm a type 1 diabetic and I know for damned sure it does. It's basically a pure fructose glucose mixture.

Any vegan against eating honey because it exploits bees had better stop eating anything that came from a flowering plant, like all fruit bearing trees and most nuts like almonds. Because that is the other half of the bee keeping industry, pollination of farms. Even if the bees are raised inorganically(the vast majority of bee farms in the US), you can still count the trees they pollinate as organic. So It's not possible for those kinds of vegans to really know if a product has exploited a bee.

>>4428081
>the queens wings are cut off to prevent them to move to a different location.

Making sure a hive doesn't swarm is pretty much impossible, and too labor intensive to be worth the effort. So it's a pretty fucking low priority to clip a queens wings when they very reliably don't swarm away to start with.

The reason most bee farms aren't organic is because most of them use chemicals to fight off the varroa mite that would otherwise kill 25-90% of all US bees in a year.

>This fucking thread

Vegans truly are the most retarded people on the planet.

>>4428151
Sceak confirmed for insane

>>4428085
>It's better for you since it doesn't raise your blood sugars

It's sugar
All sugar increases your blood sugar.

>mfw vegans are retarded because of brain starvation

>>4428194
that's how it works in Europe at least - they clip her wings unless organic.

> "I don't eat meat because exploitation and blah blah blah."

fucking hypocrites. what about those mexicans picking your fruits and vegetables for little to no pay? They get exploited everyday, especially the woman, who are sexually assaulted by the supervisors and cant say shit or else theyll get deported.

It's up to each individual if they think it's okay to eat or not. It's not fucking black or white. Thinking it is is just stupid as shit.

>>4428545

Unfortunately US bees have not yet developed as many natural resistances to the varroa mite as UK bees have. Since the mites have only migrated to the US recently. UK bees can survive the mites, US bees cannot. Selective breeding for mite resistance is a slow process.

>>4428671
Aren't there a bunch of methods you can use to deter/kill varroa mites? I could've sworn I read a whole article about those things in a beekeeping magazine once.

>>4428169
what do you expect from new age hippies? theyre about as thoughtful as retarded creationists.

>>4428085

>doesn't raise your blood sugar

Source? Agave is 100% fructose, which raises blood sugar even quicker than sucrose

>>4428684

There are. But depending on those too much does two things.

#1: It makes the bees weak. If they never have to deal with it on their own how will they ever learn how to take care of themselves without human intervention?

#2: It makes the mites stronger. If we depend too much on ANY method of killing mites, they will very quickly develop immunities to those methods. Kill the hive, and then spread to other nearby hives.

The best thing to do is to sometimes hurt the mites and never use the same method twice in one year. This is called the brass knuckle approach. This means you can't always use an organic method of killing mites. You can't just let the mites be for an entire year or randomly attack them, you need to hurt them during their population peaks. and let off when their numbers are low. Because you need to have a wide variety of methods in use to curb mite population, you can't always use the few that are genuinely organic. I only know of one method that can be called organic, it is labor intensive, massively time consuming, and not always reliable.

Trust me on this one, there are almost no fully organic bee farms in the US right now. In the next 10-20 years though, maybe. They have come up with a few great genetics when it comes to bees taking care of mites on their own. But again, it takes time for these genetics to spread around and/or activate.

It's a rough job trying to balance the bees own evolution to mite resistance and trying to keep your business afloat by taking care of the mites yourself. Not all beekeepers have the time or money to buy/breed mite resistant queens. A strong queen with a high mite resistance can go for about $200 each, this is a big deal when a small farm has to keep around 100-250 hives.

Yes gay men love honey.

no. animal product.

>>4428169
Which is processed quickly, and unlike complex sugars? It's the same reason that diabetics can eat nothing but fruit and have stable blood sugars.

>>4427985
Despite my reservations when it comes to diet-restricted lifestyles, I would like to shake your hand, good anon.

>>442808
We'd have a lot more plants that are wind pollinated.

>>4429760
No you're either the same idiot or a different one, if I eat nothing but fruit my sugars would spike through the roof. Either this is some sort of freakish form of type 2, or you're talking shit.

Either way the amount of people who seem to think they have an informed opinion on diabetics drives me insane.

>>4429810
The variety of plants today is a fucking product of the flower even fucking existing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjXleMp194o

Wind pollination would condemn variety.

>>4427936

some say no because they feel bad they are stealing from the bees.

i understand the logic, but i hope that there is a system that allows us to get honey and bee-foods without hurting bees, like for example, only taking a little bit of honey so they don't get screwed over.

What do vegans do if they are ever bit by a venomous reptile?

Clearly they cannot have anti-venom because it is a byproduct of human interaction with animals... in fact that's how they get it. They take snake venom (comes from animal) and inject into horse to get anti bodies (also comes from animal).

Any thoughts, vegans?

>>4427936
EVERYONE PLEASE SHUT THE FUDGE UP.


everyone crying "HIPSTER SOCIALIST HUE HUE VEGAN HIPPY HUEHUEHUE"


just shut up please, you pretentious smug dumbasses that are even pretending to know what your calling someone else because of the preference of their syrup-like sweeteners.

WHAT THE CRAP DO YOU CARE!?!?


u lik agav nectr u hipstr hue
>PERSONAL PREFERENCE


GET THE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUDGE OUT, you self entitled dirty butthole for a soul NAZI SHITHEADS FROM HELL THAT CANT HANDLE THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS AN OPINION OTHER THAN YOUR OWN!!


GUESS WHAT BITCH people will continue to love honey and agave nectar all they want and there is no-pants-crapping-CRAP that you can do about it.


so to everyone that is being a whiny little bitch that gets their feelings hurt by syrup, GO TO THE GAME

>>4430482
Avoid venomous reptiles? I'm sure if they got bit, most vegans would take antivenom.

It's not like you can say no if you're seized up about to die.

You get some militant ones that wouldn't take it, obviously, but most are sensible enough to realise that their life is more important than their belief and if they stay alive, they can alter the world to be better for animals at the cost of one animal being exploited.

this explains the matter fairly well
http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

Whatever semblance of a remnent of respect I had for vegans is gone thanks to this thread.

>TFW living in Australia
>Last bastion of truly organic, high quality honey

How does it feel settling for second best?

>>4428517
nothing new here

>>4427964
>putting bee vomit on pancakes
>not glorious tree blood

>>4427974
It has a bitter back end.

My father is vegan and has been for over 20 years. He doesn't consume honey, because it's easier to just say "Nothing that has come from an animal".

>>4430548
>Organic Honey...

You can't make fake honey...

>>4430603
Bee vomit is thicker, sweeter, and more delicious than tree blood. Agave nectar is better than syrup, but I still prefer honey overall.

>>4430614
Bees are bugs, your dad is stupid/

>>4428566
What if your serving it to someone?
its called being considerate jackass

>>4430628
>Amerifats in charge of intelligence

>>4429895

Only if you chase it down with a gallon of bacon grease, fatty. That's how you got diabetes in the first place. Lay off the fatty foods so the sugars in your diet can properly digest

>>4430491
>The Enslavement of Bees

Noooooo thank you. Fuck, vegans are insane.

>>4428145
nuts contain proteins, which are tiny organisms.
if it's planted in the earth, that nut had a chance to become a living breathing tree, which would embrace other forms of life in it's branches. Providing shelter for birds, and squirrels, out of the purest of love.
eating nuts is murder. one day there wont be any birds or squirrels left in the world, because nut eating freaks will have killed off all the trees.

>>4428555
>especially the woman, who are sexually assaulted by the supervisors and cant say shit or else theyll get deported.

maybe the reason she gets raped is karmic. if she eats meat on her tacos, she's no better than the rapist.

>>4430628

No, but you can cut it with sugar syrups to increase yield.

I know in some part of Europe and in Aus honey can only be commercially sold as honey if it's 100% harvested from bees, no additives other than heat-treating to eliminate bacteria.

>>4431131
There's also a method where beekeepers plates of sugar water around the hive, so the bees produce higher yield but not 'real' honey.

Apparently it's become widespread with the bees dropping like flies.

>>4431140
*place plates of

>>4431140

I think that's what most commercial honey actually is. The honey producers feed the bees sugar syrup and corn syrup to increase yield. I also think I read that feeding bees corn syrup is what's causing colony collapse disorder due to the residue of a particular pesticide in the corn syrup.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/04/new-studies-colony-collapse-disorder.html
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/04/neonicotinoids-colony-collapse/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/sep/29/endangeredspecies.wildlife

>>4431162
>banned in other countries 5+ years ago
>still legal in USA because regulatory agencies are owned by corporations

Why does Europe hate science? If not for modern pesticides, billions would starve. With respect to the bees, we need to take a cautious "wait and see" approach. If these chemicals are really a problem (which I seriously doubt since they go through expensive testing), the free market will sort it all out. These hysterical fear mongers underestimate how resilient bees can be.

>>4431176
You know I bet we could just breed a hardier more productive bee stock if it comes down to it. Nothing bad could come of that.

>>4431185
Americanized honey bees?

>>4431185

Perhaps if scientists were to cross European honey bees with African honey bees. A sort of "Africanized honey bee", if you will.

>>4431176
>he free market will sort it all out
My fucking sides.

>>4431185
You know that's why there's a killer bees infestation down South right?

>>4431210
Oh, that's just crazy internet conspiracy theory.

The real source of the killer bees was as a plague from a vengeful god.

>>4430681
See again this is sheer ignorance, type 1 diabetes develops when you are a child in most cases by your body deciding your pancreas is a disease, then killing it. It has literally nothing to do with weight you poorly educated redneck.

>>4427971
>all of my people die before the age of seven

gtfo underaged /b/

>>4430488
You're whining about people whining.

>>4431210
that_is_the_joke.jpg