/ck/ - Food & Cooking

I went to an AYCE sushi place with my gf a few days ago. The waitress asked me "if I was finished" FOUR times, as in "are you leaving and want the cheque". They also ignored half the orders and gave us random stuff.

I literally gave her a 1 cent tip. I simply was not going to tip, but I figured she needed a bit of a push for better service.

>>4128873
>If you can't afford to tip, don't eat out
But you go to a restaurant to pay for a good meal, not take part in charity.

im glad that asshole has to pay more in taxes.

>makes over $400k/year
>can't afford to tip

Yep.

>>4128873
Letter on pic is most definitely being written by some butthurt and passive-aggressive republican faggot who's very likely someone who earns good money.

People who know what it is like to not earn a lot of money would tip.

>paying for someone's job

Why don't you faggots push for better salary legislature?

>go to local brunch cafe thing
>get asked by every goddamn server if I've been helped yet because the first didn't bring my drink out for ten minutes
>get refilled once in a forty-minute stay
Nope

>>4128905
They're Americans. They'd probably get fired if they were out on the street demonstrating. Lel.

>2013
>Not getting your legally obligatory 3 months notice

>>4128905
I do, man, I promote it in my state as an issue to look at. I'd be great if we could have waiters who make more that 2.13/hour. But you know how fuckin strong the resistence to reform is? Tipping well is the best I can do outside of the state legislature.

Maybe it is because the servant class in my area gets paid over $10/hr regardless of my charity, but I will only tip if service is good. I will only tip well if service is excellent.

I've not tipped plenty of times and even left a penny tip twice. But I've also tipped 50%.

I don't get the American social obligation mentality. What the waitress gets paid has no bearing on you going to a restaurant to eat food.

While I find American service better at times than Canadian service, I find their service to be too obsequious and overtly try-hard. I come to a restaurant to eat, not to be coddled by an-overly friendly waitress/waiter who is "being my bud" in hopes of getting more money out of me.

I would rather have to ask the waiter for another drink than to put up with fake niceties for the whole meal.

>ameritips
You people are actually stupid.

>>4128873

that feel when I live in glorious UK, and employers actually pay employees the legal minimum wage, so they don't have to rely on tips to make a decent wage

I don't bother tipping because I figure they're just going to add it automatically to the receipt anyway.
I refuse to tip twice.

>>4128928
>I will only tip well if service is excellent.
> I come to a restaurant to eat, not to be coddled by an-overly friendly waitress/waiter who is "being my bud"

So what the hell would you consider an excellent service, a blow job under the table while you're eating the meal she served you a minute ago?

>>4128940
that feel when I live in superior US and can go outside without fear of violent protests or bumping into a muslim everywhere I go

>>4128950
That's because protests are quelled in the U.S. due to apathy and the elite classes convincing people they have the right to protest, yet protesters should all grow up and get jobs.

>>4128873
>trying to eat a meal in the US and have a nice conversation
>being interrupted the whole time by some overly eager waitress
>being pretty much shoved out of the door the second we put knife and fork on the table
>still give a tip

Seriously, going to a restaurant in the US is not exactly fun.

>>4128943
>add it automatically to the recipt

Low class restaurants that have a lot of black customers do this.

I'm really not sure how to say that without sounding racist as fuck, but that's the reality.

Solutions: stop being black, or go to better restaurants.

>>4128950
>superior US
You keep telling yourself that, buddy.

Just be careful not to get sick, old, have an accident or lose your job, my American friend.

>>4128959
Yeah, I found service in the US to be similar.

>perpetuating the tax evasion scheme
I sure hope you faggots don't do this.

>>4128943
You could always actually read your receipt to be sure.

>>4128873
Anybody that leaves a card like that on the table instead of a proper tip should be banned from the restaurant.

>>4128892
Ha. I make less than $30,000 and my first paycheck shows that even I have been hit by some increases, albeit unsubstantial. It's around $160 difference a month, basing it off of one check.

I could see how this could legitimately fuck someone up on a strict budget, but OP's got a point; it shouldn't affect tipping, regardless.

>>4129089

The payroll taxes weren't in any way related to Obama's "pay your fare share" policy point. That was related to tax increases for the wealthy. The Republigarchs were willing to compromise on $400k as an acceptable definition of "wealthy", Obama bought this as a substitute for his much more reasonable $250k because the alternative was armageddon.

themoreyouknow.jpg

>>4128959
In the US that is what we consider good service. We like a lot of attention and are willing to pay more for it.
I understand if that is not your bag but it is what we like here.

>>4128873
If you can't live on a waiters paycheck, don't work as a waiter.

>>4128966
You be careful not to criticize anyone on any social media website, lest you be jailed.

>>4129147
le wut

>>4128873

I ate out at a cajun place last night. The bill was around $40. No matter what my bill is, I usually leave the same amount. If it is amazing, I leave a $5, if it's decent I'll leave $2-$3, and if it sucks, I leave them nothing.

I see it like this...they are already getting paid by the hour, it's not my responsibility to tip them good regardless of the service. Tips are earned.

>>4129176

>If it is amazing, I leave a $5, if it's decent I'll leave $2-$3, and if it sucks, I leave them nothing.

The service, not the food*

>>4129174
>le
Reddit pls go

>>4129179
>that feel when /ck/ is so autistic that they cant recognize ironic shitposting

Wow, that is the most disgustingly passive aggressive thing I have ever seen. I mean, to go to the effort of writing, printing and then leaving that instead of a tip or even no tip is just obscene. Can you imagine having so little to do with your time and money that you spend it on this to get back at someone who maybe voted for a politician who raised your taxes a little bit?

>People who know what it is like to not earn a lot of money would tip.

Nope. I've lived below the poverty line my whole life so far. Currently working on climbing out of this rut and hopefully getting a pretty good amount of money in the bank.

I will never tip because the whole system of mandatory/expected tipping is absolutely demented.

Unfortunately, the only way to get rid of this system is to make it crash, and the only way to do that is for no one to tip, causing people working for tips to die from hunger/sickness, since their employers will never actually listen to reason. The only way to make them change is to have them run out of employees who suffer and keel over from utter poverty, thus collapsing their businesses unless they start providing actual pay and remove mandatory tipping.

It's an incredibly sad and unfortunate state of things, but it's the only way. People, especially pampered/sheltered/wealthy people, are usually blind. They will never change anything about themselves or their ventures until they stand to lose everything.

>>4129235
Now read it again in Dr. Stupid's voice

>>4129235
Jewfags gonna jew.

>>4129126
I strongly dislike it. That's why I prefer going to a nicer bar for my food. No forced small talk, good food, good beer. Exactly what I like.

>>4129243
You know bartenders expect tips as well?

>>4128882
A one cent tip is actually worse than nothing. It tells them that you didn't just not leave a tip but that they don't deserve one.

there is nothing reasonable about this "fair share" nonsense, it's simple math and you can't argue with it.

guy 1 makes $1,000,000
guy 2 makes $100,000
by all accounts they are both making a very nice living.

at a 20% flat tax guy one is paying $200,000 in taxes and guy two is paying $20,000, and obabo would have the gall to suggest that guy 1 is not paying his "fair share", he is paying twice as much in taxes than the other guy is making in an entire year total. He's not only paying his share, he's paying the other guys share and everybody he knows share too. It is not as though he is using $180,000 more in public services than the other guy and if anything he is using less.

Expected tipping is retarded. The restaurant should be paying the server's wages not the customers. Nobody fucking tips workers in other industries besides food service, what the fuck makes their job so much different?

>>4129254
That's the point.

>>4128873
Poorfags are the only ones who tip anyway. Wealthy people dine at establishments where tipping is faux pas.

>>4129267

Guy 2 is using perhaps 1/2 to 2/3 of his income to pay for life expenses (his own house, food, insurance, transport, education for his kids, etc). The remaining 1/3 can go to retirement investment funds, a time share in Florida, hookers & blow, etc.

Guy 1 makes substantially more so he has adjusted his lifestyle. Let's say he increases the amount spent on the above items so now he spends 1/10 of his income or $100k. That's equal to the first guy's entire income. And despite all this, he still has $900k left over to invest, spend on hookers & blow, etc.

Taxing the extra $900k harder makes him a lot more selective about how he squanders it. Maybe he'll be more likely to use it for purposes that are beneficial to both himself and the economy as a whole, instead of slaughtering caspian sturgeon or collecting italian supercars.

Get the idea?

>>4129267
the guy making a $1,000,000 still has $800,000 to live off of the guy making $100,000 has $80,000 to live off of.
if both work equally as hard then who has more than their fair share?

>>4129279
>>4129282
I understand the idea but it's the wrong way to approach the situation. Remember, the government is not generating money, every cent they get they have stolen from other people who are actually working for it and when they want more they simply take more. People get hung up about percentages and percentages really aren't the thing that matter, dollar amount is what matters, the more money you make the more dollars the government is taking away from you, dollars that you earned and belong to you. It is outrageous to suggest that because somebody has more dollars that they should be required to give more to the government when they are taking the same or less out of it by way of public services which is what the dollars are supposed to be used for.
a program that can not be sustained by taxing everybody equally is not worth keeping.

you should not punish people for their success, they should not have to give more than anybody else.

>>4129247
I usually give them a dollar or two, depending on how much I drink. I didn't say I was against tipping, I just don't care for that buddy/pal bullshit game waiters/waitresses try to play.

>I find that I must cut back on discretionary spending and gratuities.

You make at least more than $400,000 a year and can't afford to tip at least $5-$10 on a meal. That's some Class-A fuckery right there.

I don't tip. If a waiter doesn't make minimum wage he's obligated to be paid minimum wage.

why is /pol/ up in my /ck/?

gb2food guys

>>4129299
the entire society allowed them to earn more than the average income of a normal individual until they have brought back to that level they are in no way being punished. They are making an Unfair amount of income and taking a larger share of the society's resources than should be allowed. What would be fair is if every man woman and child was given exactly what they personally produced. Society however is structured so that other people can take the gains of other people through leverage and that is Unfair.

>>4129338
it is not unfair at all since anybody is capable of doing it, and you also dwell on the idea of money giving someone an unfair leg up, what about people who are really attractive so they are treated nicely and have more opportunities than ugly people. should they have to pay a higher tax rate because they have a leg up?
society did not allow anything, their personal education and understanding of how the market works did, their ability to run a business and build it in a stable, sustainable way did. your idea of "what would be fair" are you ignoring that the person running a company is in fact producing all of the jobs there in it and so is directly responsible for all of the goods and services the people below him produce? it is his company, which he organizes, and uses his equipment, which he paid for. It is not unfair because they built it and they run it. and if your argument is going to be "what about people who inherit money" I give you this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrBE0f857QM

>>4129361
ah so a slave was able to make millions of dollars picking cotton while his master had to work his ass of for nothing owning the property and not being paid.Makes perfect sense.

>>4129361
are you aware that the people working there are allowing that person "running the company" to have a job "pushing paper and stealing the gains of his workers" as well.

advantaged position =/= fair share

You give a tip if you are satisfied with the overall service at place to the point of thinking they deserve to get more than they charge you, or they they accomodated a request they weren't obliged to.

In any other case I see no reason to tip, especially if there's a service charge on the bill.

>>4129368
who is talking about slaves here? slavery is wrong, slaves do not have a choice in the matter and so you can not make a comparable argument using them as an example. It was either do what massa say or suffer a savage beating.
>>4129377
>stealing the gains of his workers
what is he stealing? they would have no generated anything if not for him, he is entitled to a portion of what they produce because of this, no different than a commission where say somebody rents a piece of equipment and pays the owner for its usage.
Workers are replaceable and do not "allow" for anything, they are not doing their boss a favor by showing up to work, he is doing them a favor by giving them a place to earn a living and if they don't like it he can easily find someone else.

>>4129389
why is he entitled to a portion of their earnings because he filed paper work? so what his workers produced the physical product some might consider that more of an entitlement. its just the way society has been structured. Luckily we live in a democracy where society can correct who is entitled to what.

>>4128873
Why are you tipping in the first place? You don't have to.

>>4129403
You also neglect the HUGE risk the employer took in starting the business, if the business goes under the employee finds a new job, the employer loses absolutely everything, his entire livelihood is gone.

but see it this way since you seem to have trouble understanding how the employee employer relationship works.

you have skills as a printer and want to get a job doing that, well ok so all you need to do is go out and buy a printing press and run it out of your house and boom, you are taking 100% of your generated profit since you are paying for it.

but what about the guy who can't afford a printing press or doesn't have space for one? well he goes to someone who does, that person gives him a place to work, a press, electricity to run the machines, and even a list of clients and projects to do. The employee assumes none of the risk, the employer foots the entire bill and has all of the risk, so this make a portion of what ever the employee generates belong to the employer who was so gracious enough to give him the equipment and the jobs he would not have had otherwise. Deal not good enough for you? go find a better one if you can.
without the employer the employee would have NOTHING

>stealing the gains of his workers

lol. these threads always make it real clear who has actually had a real job and who hasn't

>If you can't afford to tip, don't eat out. Fucking poorfags, all your excuses not to tip are just as transparent as this bullshit.
If you have to rely on charity, get a better job.

>>4129206
>lol le ironic sHitPOsting XDDDDD im jus pretending to be retarded

>>4129455
u mad

>>4129310
I'm a bartender at a relatively upscale japanese restaurant in the states. If I'm serving you food AND drinks and you just leave a buck or two, you can bet I'll remember you and adjust my service next time.

That means I bring your food out after I've served everyone else, I won't give you samples of our drinks and I'll go easy on the booze when I'm making your drink. My job sucks enough without people like you wasting my barspace

>>4129476
And then we won't come back, and we will tell all our friends that your place sucks, and your company will sink!

>>4128873
>rise in income tax for people making +$250,000

yeah, tipping would totally obliterate their budgets

>>4129476
You should be happy that you are given a *free* “buck or two” at all, you entitled little prick.

>>4129476
Are the drinks free or something?

>>4129089
That has to do with the ending of the Payroll tax cut, the largest middle class tax cut in the history of the country, which was ended by the Republican's hostage taking during the cliff deal last week.

>>4129483
>>4129488
>>4129492

lolololol

Who's entitled here? I'm not being rude or out of line by scaling back my service for people who tip badly. I bring out the food, I pour the drinks. That's it. That's all you get for the menu price of food and drinks. All of the extra things I do to provide an awesome experience are reserved for those who appreciate quality service.

Also, it's no skin off my back if the restaurant goes under (which based on our volume, it won't). I'll just get another bar job.

>>4129497
>republicans wanted to extend tax cuts to everybody
>democrats wanted to raise taxes on some people
>republicans are the bad guys

keep being partisan bro

>>4129422
And without the employee the employer would have nothing. What's your point?
>hurr durr the employer can hire someone else if the employee quits
And the employee can find another job if the employer goes bust. It goes both ways, and your example is moot.

>>4129518
>Who's entitled here?

You. You seem to think that good service is the reward for tipping well, when, in fact, it is the other way around.

>>4129518
>Who's entitled here?

You are.
…………………………………………………
You seem to think that good service is the
reward for tipping well, when, in fact, it is
the other way around.

>Food & Cooking

not Ethics and Economics

>>4129522
>the employee can find another job if the employer goes bust
it's so easy to find jobs in this economic climate isn't it?

the employer really does not need the employee, if he wants to he can do everything himself but he would prefer to just handle the financial aspects and give someone else a cut of the profit in exchange for helping out. Anyone who thinks employees actually have some kind of leverage especially right now is fooling themselves, they are a limitless resource because there are always people who need jobs.
the reason the employer has employees is because he had something before they got there, they did not generate it all, he had to generate it first himself.

I'm done having this conversation here though since /ck/ is no place to argue with people that don't know the first thing about business administration.

>>4129534
Actually I do agree with you on the point. My default service is always good. And it's not like I expect everyone tip 20% or anything. But if I bust my ass for someone all night, entertaining them and giving them good service, and they order several hundred dollars worth of food and drink, then leave me a buck or two, you can bet I'll remember them.

On the rare occasions that my service is off for some reason, then I absolutely understand when people stiff me.

>>4129543
>the employer really does not need the employee, if he wants to he can do everything himself
That's the most retarded bullshit I have ever heard. Wow. Seriously, wow. I am amazed.

>>4129543
I'm glad you got that off you chest.

>>4129549
fair enough.

>>4128873
Tips are just a extra
you should be able to survive with out them
unless you live in a 3rd world country

>>4129543
The whole "employer/employee" line is moot, since tax only takes into account the income, not the position in a firm.

>>4129550
good argument
>implying most business owners do not spend the first few years of their company doing everything on their own with no employees and only later take them on as a matter of convenience once it would be profitable to do so

>>4129568
So that argument only applies to companies with one or two employees?

>>4129570
hate to break it to you but that is the majority of companies out there, a very small staff. not all businesses require hundreds of laborers, sometimes people just want to hire a guy to help sweep the floors or run a cash register so they have more time to deal with other responsibilities.

a friend of mine does contracting for example. he stopped doing the work himself and taught his son how to do it because he just doesn't need to do it anymore, now most of his day is spent giving estimates, ordering supplies, drawing up plans, and dealing with customers. He could very well do the work himself if he wanted to but it's easier to have someone else do it for him.
and then the retarded argument getting thrown around that he has no right to the money being generated because he never actually drove a nail into the wall is insane.

>>4129566
that was a response to the comment that employers have no right to the money their employees generate

Im in college and used to be a waiter.

Yes its true black people do not tip.
>work breakfast every sunday
>church crowd
>same giant (5+ in addition to kids) black family every sunday
>orders lots of shit
>usually orders more food after they get their food
>have to cut the coffee lids for kiddie cups myself (theres always at least like 3 or 4 kids)
>take a lot of extra time to do waiter things for them, normal on a sunday though
>fucking mother fuckers tip like 3 or 4 bucks total

I dont make jack shit for money, but if I have leftover singles and I think you did a good job ill give you a buck or two. If I'm paying with my debit card you prolly will get a nice tip just because I dont give a fuck. I dont hate people who dont tip, but If your waitress is busting your ass for you or if you have like 3+ special requests that definitely arent on the menu (or if you have kids that need to be waited on) FUCKING TIP YOU CHEAP FUCK.

If you can't cope with some people not tipping, don't be a fucking waiter. How about that instead?

>anyone who makes over 450k must pay more taxes
>welp guess I cant spare a 10 dollar tip

what the hell?

>>4129521

>Republicans want to extend tax cuts to everybody

Nope. That's now how Conservative economics work. It's really pathetic that anybody who makes less than six figures thinks Conservative economic policies are there to help them.

Conservitards: the most brainwashed, used and retarded political group, or what?

>>4129629
conservative economic policies help the economy, that in turn helps everyone else. Where exactly would someone get brainwashed by conservative ideals? The internet and television is dominated by the contrary, even academia, radio is about even.
Compare Texas to California and their current state economies and budget management, It's pretty clear which system of doing things is working better.

>>4129588

People this is what happens when your only source of knowledge is your rich daddy and a bunch of ron paul youtube videos.

You've clearly never run a business and I can see why your daddy doesn't let you take over. The employer/employe relationship is symbiotic one. You're first mistake is dealing with the fact we don't live in largely unskilled economy but a mixed economy of skilled and unskilled labor. But, even if we still did live in an unskilled economy, viewing all employs as an unlimited resource is nothing short of retarded. Even unskilled labor like being a waiter requires guess what a ton of fucking skill, and the quality between waiters can vastly differ. You don't think your customers will notice the never ending, changing supply of crappy waiters you keep on hiring? You don't think they'll stop coming when the quality of service becomes a fucking joke at your establishment? I bet with that silver spoon in your ass you didn't even know the highest cost to any business is employe turnover. That's right the stagnation that comes from constantly hiring, training, and orienting new people greatly effects your business.

This is the problem with entitled fucks like you. You see workers as a never ending resource instead of real human beings. We're all just a bunch of lazy bottom feeders looking to screw the master over so we can get more drinking money. And, you wonder why people hate the rich more than any other group of people.

>>4129638
>It's pretty clear which system of doing things is working better.

Yes, because texas and california are completely identical apart from their economic policies! Nice one, anon! Good job pointing that out!

>>4129654
>implying I have a dad
>implying I came from money
>implying I don't own a small bistro which I started myself off of a bank loan
>implying my cooking skills are not all self taught
>implying I'm rich
I plan to some day be rich but I actually make a pretty modest living as of right now
>>4129655
you're right, their social politics are different too and yet people are abandoning California in droves and heading over to Texas every day.

California has the largest global entertainment industry by far and silicon valley, as well as all those vineyards and oil, so many natural resources to use. Texas is a dust bowl with cows so obviously economics is the reason for one to thrive and the other to fail when one has so many more resources to use.
Still can't come up with how people allegedly get brainwashed by conservative ideals either since media is dominated by the contrary.

Why are we still having 100+ post threads about tipping?

>>4129638

>conservative economic policies help the economy

LOL, like trickle down theory, right? You know, that thing disproved completely that does nothing but make rich people richer, while Conservative political powers increase taxes on the middle and lower classes to make up for that income disparity and destroy their discretionary income?

Retard. Educate yourself before you speak.

>>4129692
>trickle down theory
does not exist, there has never been an economist EVER that suggested "trickle down" was a good idea, it's not a theory, it's a strawman that turns into a red herring and has never had any literature published by a conservative economist suggesting it. The only time you ever hear that term is when democrats are trying to mischaracterize conservative economic policies.
Of course if you are such an authority you should have no problem finding me a piece of literature written by a respected conservative economist suggesting "trickle down theory"

obviously you are the one that needs some education because you just make yourself look really stupid to anybody that has studied even single semester of economics.

>>4129692
>calls someone else uneducated
>talking about trickle down
lol
http://www.tsowell.com/images/Hoover%20Proof.pdf

>>4129748
What do you call all this "job creator" stuff, if not trickle down?

>>4129775
you can read >>4129766
if you don't want to read 13 pages worth of literature then you really have no business arguing this topic

>>4129777
>can't distill a 13 page paper into a paragraph for discussion

Yes, the other guy has no business arguing the topic ;)

I was in the US for a month last year and ate out a lot by myself. I would spend ~$20-30 on food and leave a $5 tip. Would I be considered a scumbag and a faggot in the eyes of Americas nazi food and bar staff?

Trickle down economics is a pejorative term commonly used to refer to Supply Side economics. It's similar to referring to firearm magazines as "clips". Incorrect, but the person using the term does so because they are uneducated, not out of spite.

It's a bit of an ad hominem to attack someone for using the term when both parties know what they really meant.

>>4129777
The argument there is that if we lower tax rates, rich people will stop being total fuckasses and actually pay what they owe, instead of evading them?

Am I reading this right? Is this guy serious?

>>4129796
It can be distilled into less than a paragraph.
"Trickle down theory does not now and never has existed, there is no proof to the contrary anywhere, people who suggest such a thing are obviously uninformed about the topic at hand."

but anything to avoid reading something that will prove your ideal wrong though, right bro?

>>4128882
Had a similar situation at a local bar a few weeks ago. Woman kept forgetting about us, visibly rolled her eyes at my friend when he asked if a dish was his, brought me a beer I didn't ask for and gave me crap when I pointed it out, complained when we said we wanted another round, then when she brought our checks said "can you guys go ahead and pay so I can cash out and go home?"

None of us gave her a thing. We weren't even done. After we paid her she was standing outside the kitchen complaining about us. We went to the outside bar and talked to the girl there about it, she said the girl is new and didn't know she was like that. Talked to us for a while. I didn't get another drink, I just got water, but I left 20% of my inside order as a tip for the girl outside. I'm sure she knows why, and I hope she told the other idiot.

>>4129820
>Is this guy serious?
the most respected economist alive today, yes he is serious and this is another basic fact of economics based on a laffer curve. The higher tax rates are the more the underclass pays because it drives the wealthy to move their money to other places.
>>4129818
>It's a bit of an ad hominem to attack someone for using the term when both parties know what they really meant.
absolutely not, people who use trickle down think there is a trickle down theory. if they even understood supply side economics then they would use that term instead of one they heard on the internet. people who think trickle down is a thing don't know what they are talking about.

>>4128884
Would totally be nice if our country operated this way, but it doesn't. We've decided tips are socially required, and that waiters and waitresses don't even have to make minimum wage because of it.

So if you don't tip someone because you can't afford it, all you're doing is screwing someone, you're not actually enacting any change.

>>4129855
>the most respected economist alive today
>compared Obama to Hitler

>>4129855
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve#Congressional_Budget_Office_analysis

Even if the curve exists it's far from clear where the maximum revenue area is. Neither the theoretical Laffer Curve nor any hypothetical ideas on taxation drawn from it are "facts".

You seem to be espousing the same views as Friedman in his "free lunch" speeches. The problem is the assumption that there is a tax limit on the rich that, once crossed, will lead to them pushing expenses onto lower classes and capital flight. There is no evidence of such a limit, and even if there was it would likely depend on a variety of factors such as the ways in which tax revenue is spent by the government.

>>4129872
you know why liberals hate arguing with Thomas Sowell? because their standard response of RACIST HES A RACIST LOOK AT THE RACIST!! doesn't work on a black man who was part of the civil rights movement.

>>4128943
How are you not able to look at your receipt to see first?

>>4129883
>sage

Seems I touched upon a particularly sensitive area?

>RACIST HES A RACIST LOOK AT THE RACIST!!

Your words, not mine.

>>4129881
actually most economists agree it sits between 30-35% before evasion starts, that's not even worth arguing because that is how it is and there is tons of data about it. if you read that booklet posted above there is a very clear example of when the rich were taxed upwards of 70% the lower class paid a higher percentage and tax revenue was lower than when they were taxed below 30%.
the government does not own the money of the people that live within its countries boarders, remember that. Higher tax rates ALWAYS result in lower revenue from the upper class and there is not a single example saying otherwise.

>>4129126
This conversation is starting to help me understand why I hate the employees of restaurants in other companies, some recently-opened mom-and-pop foreign food joints, or the international kids who work in some of the restaurants here.

>>4129228
>write the message, print out 100 cards, have 10 with you, add more as your on hand supply diminishes, pay 2 dollars, save 500

>>4129896
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sGn6PdmIo

>>4129176
This makes way more sense than percentage. Just because I bought an expensive meal doesn't mean you deserve more money.

Long ago, our standards for tipping should have been based on minimum wage, and it should have been a flat rate expectation that you'd adjust based on service.

>>4129228
Guarantee you it's an upper middle class dude who thinks he's teaching a lesson to someone he assumes is voting for communism.

>>4129907
>durr durr he's not a racist

Don't care, didn't watch, not relevant to the discussion.

The context of the Hitler comparison was that the Obama administration put pressure on BP to create a relief fund to compensate for destruction of the Gulf Coast.

That's right, forcing an oil company to make restitution is similar to genocide. This is what this guy ACTUALLY believes.

The most respected, my foot.

>>4129926
he was actually criticizing obamas use of rhetoric to control the masses instead of actually giving people the facts to make an informed choice, something that you can not argue about him doing. You sure know a lot about the comments and nothing about the context.

>>4129932

That's how politics works; just because Dubya was a buffoon and made America somehow forget what an intelligent politician sounded like doesn't make Obama anything special. I guess you're too young to remember Clinton, who was far more charismatic than Obama, who comes off as polished rather than charismatic.

Hitler comparisons are the nuclear option when you're criticizing someone. The fact that he went there, in that context, means he is not to be taken seriously.

>>4129403
Where does their money come from if he makes their jobs not exist?

>>4129900
You can say that most economists agree to anything, but that does not make it so. The same goes for saying that "That's how it is" and plugging your ears to empirical evidence. Tax rates alone are no indication of the wealth of the nation, or the spending power or average discretionary budget of its citizens.

Conservatives in every country usually argue that lower taxes drives the free markets to fix all problems while regulating themselves. The fact of the matter is that lower taxes put money in private hands, and those hands may or (More commonly) may not choose to invest that money in ways which better the nation as a whole.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Historical_Mariginal_Tax_Rate_for_Highest_and_Lowest_Income_Earners.jpg

Boom times in the U.S. have followed both raising taxes and lowering them. The key to a successful economy is successful regulation and oversight, something that is possible but difficult when capital is in the hands of private citizens and easier but more prone to corruption and bureaucratic misappropriation when in the hands of a government. The key difference is that lower tax rates have been shown to give those citizens who control the wealth the opportunity to use it for their own short term benefit, while higher taxes give the government a chance to wisely invest the money for the good of all.

Lowered taxes cause booms and busts such as in the 20's, 80's, and 2000's. Raised taxes and intelligent oversight lead to reliable and persistent growth. As John F. Kennedy said; "A rising tide lifts all boats".

>>4129943
>a single gaffe discredits all authority

you must find it very hard to find voting really hard

>>4129932
It's an exercise in hypocrisy to criticize Obama for using rhetoric and disingenuous statements without also criticizing conservative mouthpieces such as Hannity, Bush, Cheney, Reagan, Thatcher, etc.

The key difference is that Obama wishes to support every American Citizen, while the majority of Conservatives speak about "equal opportunity" and "free markets" to ensure that profit is privatized by themselves and their friends while expenses are socialized to the downtrodden middle and lower class.

>>4129949
I just need to get this out of the way, It's obvious from the use of wikipedia that I am not debating people well versed in the subject.

you are naive to think the government handles money better than the private sector, there are no examples of this. you actually said
>government wisely invest
when has that ever happened?

This isn't even a discussion about if you think the government should have a large role, its a fact that the private sector is a better system than the public one for all things.

regulation caused the great depression, it caused the housing bubble, the new deal set back economic recovery by 10 years, it just isn't a smart basket to put your eggs in.

but what it really comes down to here is you think the government invests money better than private citizens, it's just plain wrong so there really isn't anything more to talk about here, you are just wrong.
the federal reserve caused the great depression and clinton created the housing bubble we are still suffering from today.
also JFK lowered taxes which was the key to his success.

>>4129962
>to ensure that profit is privatized by themselves and their friends while expenses are socialized to the downtrodden middle and lower class.
that is just a lie, the free market helps everybody, government programs create poverty traps that keep people down.

why do you think that just because conservatives are not coddling people that they are trying to hurt them? the free market is the only way to achieve equality, equality can not exist without a free market.

>>4129986
actually it was deregulation of the banks that caused this latest financial melt down and the depression was partially caused by a run on the banks which to prevent in the future the government had to create the FDIC.

>>4129522
The employer will get the employee who didn't have a job and will work for a fifty cents less an hour than you did without your complaints.

>>4128873
>>4128873
op the card in that picture is the gayest piece of shit excuse I have ever seen. Whoever made it isa weak cunt.

I don't live in the states so tipping is different, but fuck I'm sick of hearin you cunts whining about it. I agree that you should leave a tip, but theres always been people that don't tip and there always will be. And there will always be servers who simply don't deserve a tip because they suck at their jobs. And there will always be some places/industries that don't garner a tip, and some that do. These fucking pointless threads can get fucked

>>4129588
I worked for a company that brought in millions every year. My CEO, of course, was a millionaire.

The company was built by him and one other person. He invented the technology that made it successful, and expended it so it could make more money and he could be in charge.

If I demanded a "fair share" of his product for writing the manuals for them, he could fire me and do it himself. He could do that to everyone in the company and go back to doing it all himself. He wouldn't be quite as rich as he is now, but he'd still be well off.

I wouldn't, because I've never invented something people will pay thousands for.

>>4129654
If they're real human beings with actual skills worth keeping around, that's one thing. I'm skilled at my job and get paid a nice premium so I'll stick around. You're ridiculous if you think that's most minimum wage workers.

>>4129815
That's just fine, if not a little generous.

>>4129986
>Unsupported Ad Hominem

Anyway, please tell me about how the private sector created the internet, GPS system, memory foam, cordless tools, and a host of other products which we use every day. The government invests money in roads, research and development, and long term solutions to problems which its citizens face. The private sector invests only in that which brings immediate profits.

This isn't even a discussion if you think the private sector should have a large role, its a face that the public sector is a better system than the private one for all things.

DE regulation caused the great depression, along with a massive decrease in taxes on the rich which allowed them to invest their money unwisely to watch short term profits rise while the country's bubble of an economy grew.

The housing bubble was caused by regulatory capture of the agencies meant to prevent it and wide scale corruption of the housing industry. Real estate companies bet on the predatory mortgages they granted so that they could rake in, you guessed it, short term profits. The private sector was playing chicken with the reality that the bubble they created through sub prime loans was about to collapse.

The New Deal was flawed in that a large amount of its regulatory bodies were under the control of those with private sector interests.

The private sector just isn't a smart basket to put your eggs in.

But what it really comes down to here is you think the private sector values anything but short term profits at the expense of all else. It's just plain wrong so there really isn't anything more to talk about here, you are just wrong.

Also, if you actually spent some time reading rather than playing video games, you'd understand that JFK's tax cuts benefited the middle class. The bottom 85% of the country received 59% of the benefit.

>>4129672
>Implying Texas, one of the biggest oil producers in the world, has no natural resources

>>4130070
Get a load of this faggot, thinking that you can base entire economies off of oil and natural gas and entire countries off of petro-diplomacy.

...Guys? Why are you laughing?

>>4129900
>and tax revenue was lower than when they were taxed below 30%.

Hold on, the only times in the past century when the top income tax bracket had rates below 30% was during the Hoover administration, and that of Bush Sr. The former president lead the economy into the Great Depression, and that latter into a recession

>>4130027
>apple floor staff complex

Money breeds money.
Why would I give away money when I have the option not to?

>Liberal economics
>I'm entitled to what you work for

>>4130078
>thinking that you can base entire economies off of oil and natural gas

That's how they think out here in the Permian Basin.

>if you defend the job creators, they might let you be rich like they are

No really, that's how it works. Now stop asking for the government to help you, it's here to help us. You like that job, don't you? Show some gratitude.

Coulda sworn I clicked /ck/ and not /pol/......

>>4128873
>Live in Norway
>order some tasty pizza
>get delivery
>white (obviously) delivery guy shows up
>bill is $17 and change
>hand him a $20
>he tries to give me $3 change
>I refuse and tell him to keep it as a tip
>he gets angry and says I'm insulting him and his work by trying to give him money, because tipping isn't in our culture, and employers actually pay people a reasonable living wage
>tfw I go to America where apparently tax is bad, but then I have to pay this massive extra tax called tipping everywhere.

>>4130159
LOLOL

>>4130159
Americans pretend they believe in "picking themselves up by their bootstraps" yet they are socially obligated to throw their charity change at waiters.

lol

What's the big deal on tipping?
If I like the service I get I leave a tip, if I don't I leave a penny tip. Waiters saying they don't make enough is bullshit, you have to be paid minimum wage unless specified otherwise by your government.
>Visit hometown after being away for 4 years
>Donair/pizza place I used to get lunch at everyday in high school is still around
>Same guy is still running it and remember me, have a chat with him
>He's still awesome as hell
>Leave $50 tip on my $6 donair

>>4130179
>giving someone $44
LOL

>You will never be retarded enough to be liberal
>You will always be libertarian and value individual liberty over everything else

>>4130206
>you will always be a faggot who thinks people can be trusted to behave themselves

>>4130206
>You will never be intelligent enough to realize you are being puppeted by the conservative party to keep "Big gummint" from taxing their multi-million dollar empires.
>Feels goodman

>>4130219
to be fair, so will you

>>4130219
>You will always live in fear of human potential because you are weak and wouldn't be able to take coins from my pocket with government force

>>4130228
>you will always be raped by those who don't care and support them fully

>>4130234
>He believes anarchism is the same as libertarianism

Get a load of this faggot, Cletus.

That feel when I end up tipping so that I don't look like an asshole even though I know I'm perpetuating an institution I don't believe in.

/pol/ is that way ===> >>>/pol/

used to tip, not anymore
come at me bros

>>4130276
>Implying telling off conservatards should be relegated to one board.
>Implying this isn't my face when

>>4129239

So you ever tipped the guy at McDonalds or Arby's?

>>4130282
>tards
>have all da monies
look whos tarded nao lol

>not tipping
>voluntarily becoming the same as niggers, jews, and eurotrash
>>4130159
Tax in america is about half od that in europe, sorry.

If you can't afford to not be tipped, you can't afford to be a waiter. Go work in a no-skill industry like retail or sales or whatever else where your pay is not dependent on the generosity of strangers.

>>4130287
http://funancials.biz/democrats-are-richer-than-republicans/

heeheehee

>>4129176
Servers in the US make roughly $2.15 an hour, with the expectation that tipping is done on a percentage. As you might be aware, that is UNDER the minimum wage-- the expectation being that the customer will be tipping a minimum of 15% on the total bill. Yeah. It's a shitty system, but it is what it is.

You can tip poorly as you've been doin', but I wouldn't eat at the same place twice.

Speaking from experience: We'll recognize you, and we WILL fuck with your food. We loved you guys. Waiting for you consistent-shit-tippers to come in and give us an excuse to get creative... hell, it made our night.

>>4130305
>We'll recognize you, and we WILL fuck with your food.
lel
And these are the kind of people demanding charity. Keep this is in mind when considering how large your tip should be.

>>4129609
>
We had an all-you-can-eat crab leg night on Tuesdays that the ghetto crowd would turn out for in force. Imagine a sea of shit tables, as far as the eye could see...all reekin' of crab juice. Fuck those motherfuckers.
Been ages since I was a server, but you should see me now-- not only do I tip like Daddy Warbucks, but I mock the merry fuck out of their crap tables as they scurry out of the restaurant. "Hey. That server was running their ass all night,did a great job, you ate all that high priced shit, and you just left them two bucks. Fuckin' classy, you piece of shit."

>>4130334
>but I mock the merry fuck out of their crap tables as they scurry out of the restaurant.
Nice troll, bro.

Here's one thing I don't get: why should tipping be based on how much the stuff I'm eating costs?

It isn't any harder to carry a plate with a lobster on it than a plate with steamed vegetables on it. They aren't preparing the food, nor are they purchasing the ingredients.

>>4130314
It's not "charity" if they're getting paid under minimum wage. It's part of the price you pay for eating out in the US.

But hey, you could always sacrifice your firstborn if you're that short on cash. We had plenty of butter and garlic in the back.

>>4130305
Uh-oh, here comes the waitstaff mafia! I'd better pay my "protection" money or they're going to make me worry that they spit in my food!

Give me a fucking break.

>>4130340
places with more expensive dishes usually have better everything, including service also usually the tip goes to everyone not just the server

>>4130348
they arent getting paid under minimum wage, if they don't make minimum wage the restaurant has to pay them the difference. mind you they are getting paid in tax free tips too.

>You will never be an entitled little shit who expects everyone to do everything for them

The reason you're poor is because you have shit work ethic (TIP OR I SKEET ON YOUR SALAD), shit education (MUH PHD IN WOMEN STUDIES), no self-discipline (OMG NEW MAC) and you grew up under the roof of a single mother living off welfare/child support. It's only natural you've become an entitled little shit who never stops to think where those tax dollars are from.

Also MUH DEBT. Shouldn't have signed shit, faget.

/ck/ sure consists of some odd people. at the restaurant i work at, at least 90% of the people leave tips... generally between 20-40% but it isn't uncommon for the servers to get tipped even upto 100% of the bill. then again, our food is fucking amazing, prices are pretty fair, and it can be very difficult to get a table

>>4130305
I don't negotiate with terrorists

Now go back to /pol/

>>4130179
Are you American? How are you not aware of how tipped-position minimum wage works?

Federal minimum wage for a tipped position is $2.13 an hour. There are only five states (Alaska, California, Nevada, Oregon, Washington) where the minimum wage for tipped employees is at least the $7.25 federal minimum wage, with a couple others (Nevada and Connecticut) having some exceptions that also have the employees making minimum wage.

So, in short, you are right in your statement that you are paid minimum wage unless specified otherwise by the government. Where you appear to be wrong is your assumption the government doesn't specify otherwise.

>>4130083
No, much smaller. It was a military contractor. Small enough I was on a first name and regular conversation basis with the CEO.

They also paid me way better than what I'm betting tech writers make at Apple. Could be wrong.

>>4128873
>This is what richfags actually believe

If I lived on a waiter's salary and some rich dude left me that note, I'd probably just want to go French on their asses.

>>4130673
If you can't deal with that then get a better job.

I'm not rich, by the way.

>>4130678
>Get a better job
>Enjoy not being waited on

>>4130298
why are democrats so selfish if they have all the wealth? why don't they share more?

If you can't afford to pay your employees at least minimum wage, don't force them to work under.

>>4130687
Advocating higher taxes is paying more.

>>4130689
The last restaurant owner I knew was in hardcore tax evasion while simultaneously barely being able to pay their waiters $3 an hour.

>>4130690
nobody is stopping them from writing a check for more money every year, you are perfectly able to gift the government money if you think you don't pay enough and would like them to have more. obviously they must not mean it since they aren't doing that.

>>4130690

This. I'm in the 90th percentile income wise, and I say bring on the taxes. I have a certain standard of living that I'd like to maintain, but in all honesty I can afford it more than some poor schmuck who's scraping by on 30k/year because he had a shitty upbringing and he didn't graduate from high school.

>>4130720
Maybe they'd prefer if people with excess expendable income would pay their fair share.

>>4130725
we have already covered earlier in this thread it is unfair to ask someone to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars more than someone else for public services when they are not using more public services.
"fair share" is rhetoric, they pay more than you, 80% of all the taxes total, you are the one not paying a fair share compared to them.

People that don't tip have no class.

Also, the faggots that claim not to tip either come from a place other than American, and/or are people with ZERO social grace or edgy teens.

I'm being charitable when I say these things.

>>4130751
>Wat is a percentage
>How do I potato?

>>4130724
Sooo. . . what's stopping you from giving money directly to programs and the people who you would like to benefit from it?

>>4130809
yeah, you want rich people to pay a higher percentage when they already pay a higher amount, nobody was trying to argue for a lower one, they already pay a higher one and always will.

and percentages really don't matter, their 5% is probably more than your 100%, why should they have to pay hundreds of thousands more for the same services? the only way you can argue it is if you somehow think you are entitled to the money other people earn.

but still nobody is talking about that, we are simply saying a progressive tax of "the more money you make the higher percentage you have to pay" is unfair and it's nonsense.

>>4130875
>the only way you can argue it is if you somehow think you are entitled to the money other people earn.

That is what he thinks. That is what a ton of Americans currently think.

>>4130860
You're right, if only there was some way you could invest money for the good of the country, perhaps some type of institution which is created to administrate and assist the citizens of the United States in any way it can, some sort of governing body which assesses the needs of the people and has thousands of dedicated, intelligent men and women whose jobs are to administer services to the people of the United States. Maybe it could even be led by officials elected by the people to serve the people's best interests and lead the country and its people.

If only such a system of governing existed. If only.

>>4130875
Yes, because everyone who makes large amounts of money earns every penny of it through honest work, and so to ask them to contribute a larger amount than the downtrodden who were not born with silver spoons in their mouths is moral debauchery. Structuring taxes so that the government gains the maximum tax revenue possible without impacting quality of life in the citizens is obviously unethical!

tl;dr I have money, fuck you if you don't.

>>4130889
You need the government to do this for you? You can't do it yourself? They do exactly what you want with your money?

Why do Americans proudly embrace such a ridiculous system?

>>4130921
>I wanna fund the building of new roads!
>I'll just invest in one of those private sector road building companies!
>Wait... shit.

>I want to donate to Medicaid and nothing else!
>I'll just put "Medicaid" on the envelope and stuff it full of hundreds! That must be how this government thing works!

>What do you mean I can't pick and choose which government initiatives to fund? COMMIE BASTARDS LIBERAL TAKING MY JOBS STEALING MY MONEY FEMA DEATH CAMPS SECOND AMENDMENT

>>4130929
Why are foreigners so fucking stupid?

>>4130907
that's the problem with people that argue, it is on the premise that most people who have money stole it and did not earn it when in fact the vast majority of millionaires are self made business owners that came from shit. you have no interest in building effective programs that are able to actually work the way they are supposed to, you think they should just keep pumping money into them to make up the difference.

call me a dreamer but I would like government programs that don't work to be restructured so they function properly before people are asked to give more money to them.

>>4130941
You can donate to the government.

>>4130941
When did we stat talking about road work? That was never a part of the original post that was replied to. Keep up.

>>4130941
all of those things you mentioned can be handled with private sector charity.

the question remains, why do you need the government to do these things for you? you can absolutely do them yourself.

>>4130948
>American responds with insult to a perfectly reasonable question
MUH AMUHRIKKKUH

>>4130950
>What is inheritance?
>What is altruism?
>Corollary to my last query, I don't understand what ethics are and it doesn't make sense to me that the government is there to serve the people. And I *hate* things I don't understand, just like I hate them A-Rabs, niggers and fags!

>>4130969
inheritance was also already covered in this thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrBE0f857QM

it is not a binary system of money and not money, there are other forms of inheritance as well.

>>4130961
classic tactic
losing ground? change the topic!

ohhh the money is cumming down your throat OHH OHHHH IM CUMMINGGGG ON YOUR BIG MONEY TITS BABY OHHHHHH BUrger money TIT OHHHHARRGHHHHHH *splattering sounds*

>>4130965
You do realize we view foreigners as less than human, do you not? When someone identifies themselves as non American, we instantly lose all respect for them and immediately discount whatever they have to say.

>>4129332
>If a waiter doesn't make minimum wage he's obligated to be paid minimum wage.
THIS

>>4130955
>>4130961
>>4130964
The private sector does not administrate Medicare, or Social Security, or USAID, or roads, or national security, or global positioning satellites, or the ISS, or research in any area that is not expected to be profitable in less than a decade. By your logic all the money should flow to the free markets, and the government wouldn't have had the chance to invent the Internet or any of the host of other technologies that stem from long term public sector R&D.

The government administrates all of these and while portions of the services it provides can be provided with donations the majority is funded through taxes. Arguing that we shouldn't pay taxes and should just send our money to where we personally think it will do the most good is ridiculous. The funding for NOAA or the NSA or the ATF or the NSC and nearly every other non-big name agency would dry up overnight.

How deep down the rabbit hole do you want to go? Cherry picking what programs in each agency to fund? What about the DoD? Should you be able to donate directly to military units your loved ones belong to to ensure they have the best equipment? What about adding limitations to how its spent, something that is reasonable by your logic. If you tell NASA that you'll give them a billion dollars but only if they ensure it's used to send you to Mars?

But of course, if they refuse that's just big gummint sticking its nose in your business, right?

>>4131005
>The private sector does not administrate Medicare, or Social Security

jesus christ, maybe if they did those programs wouldn't be fucking collapsing

>>4128873
I agree, if you can't afford to tip then stay home and eat some soup. Damned cheap skate.

>>4131009
Those programs are not collapsing, but they are under constant attack by Conservatives who either are actually naive enough to think that those programs are in some way deleterious to the nation or simply wish to destroy them so that they and their friends can get tax breaks and otherwise further increase the disparity of wealth.

For an example, just look at Romney's plan for Medicare and Medicaid. The Voucher plan would drive up costs for those involved while drawing funds away from those programs, ensuring their collapse within a decade or two. That's not hyperbole like the conservatives earlier in this thread have spouted, that's straight from the CBO.

>>4131005
gotta go extreme huh? all or nothing is the only way you can make an argument? nobody wants to dismantle the government, we just want a more efficient and smaller one that is streamlined to do it's job instead of creating massive deficits and dragging all of the citizens down with it.

are you going to actually defend medicare and social security, medicare alone is bankrupting the country without factoring in all the other shitty programs the government flushes money at. from a report last august "Last year, Americans paid $274 billion in Medicare taxes and premiums. At the same time, the program paid out $564 billion in benefits. That amounts to a shortfall of roughly $290 billion. Looking into the future, even the most optimistic estimate by the program’s trustees puts Medicare’s future unfunded liabilities at more than $38.6 trillion."

I actually figure this out once when I was confronted with someone that had an elderly relative having difficulty paying their medical bills with the money they government was giving back to them. after a 40 year career if the money taken out for social security and medicare and all that shit had been invested in a bank and left untouched with a reasonable interest they would have retired with $2,000,000 in the bank and would never need to worry about a dollar for the rest of their life. instead that money got taken by the government and handed back for a fraction of the value of what it would have been worth since it did not collect interest in government hands.

>>4131030
I vote a straight Republican ticket each and every election in hopes of drowning out ignorant dumbasses like you.

Translation: You hate personal responsibility.

>>4131030
>Those programs are not collapsing
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

>>4131038
Replacing taxes in part or in their entirety with people deciding how to invest their money in government *is* dismantling it.

As for Medicare, its cost growth is the same as GDP growth, meaning it obviously costs less than private sector insurance. Medicare's deficits are in large part a result of the increase in the pool of eligible seniors as baby boomers age. The question is not one of how much it costs, it's of why its detractors refuse tax increases or other fiscal measures to fund it and close the deficit.

As for your anecdote; If a person makes enough so that his SS and Medicare taxes can, with "reasonable" interest, accrue to 2,000,000 then it's quite strange that they are now having trouble paying their bills with the millions of dollars they should now have in the bank. Granted, savings in the U.S. are at an all time low, but unless an extremely large portion of your friend's income went to discretionary expenses (Hookers and blow is the 'street' term), it's highly unlikely he actually would have trouble paying a few bills.

Then again, it's possible I'm wrong. Our private sector healthcare system is highway robbery.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/why-an-mri-costs-1080-in-america-and-280-in-france/2011/08/25/gIQAVHztoR_blog.html

Funny how they put all the blame on the consumer instead of the employer.

If people that can't tip don't go to the restaurant the employer won't need as many workers. If he doesn't need so many workers some of them will be fired. And those will get a change in their payment from "less than minimum wage" to 0.

You are supposed to demand a good paymento from the employer, not blackmail the clients.

>my work is harder than yours
>that's why i am getting more money
>you wouldn't be able to handle my job

>pic related
it's me and my brothers hard at work. now stop worrying about what i'm doing and focus on your work.

>> Tipping

Disgusting Bourgeoisie practice.

>>4131030
>Those programs are not collapsing

>>4129126
IMO service is ideal if you hardly notice the server. Your food comes, the things you want are taken care of but aside from that you aren't bothered and can talk with whoever you're there with and eat your dinner. Also bonus points if they don't rush you.

>>4130657
I wasn't aware of that, I'm Canadian and minimum wage is $10.25 where I am

>>4131097
I agree completely. You are 100% correct. Servers should remain unnoticed unless they are needed to interact with the patrons.

>>4131101

That's because you live in a first-world country

>>4131030
>Those programs are not collapsing
Bahahahahaha holy fuck you are an ignorant SOB.

Why should people who have earned a good living have to give any of it up to other people just because they were too lazy or stupid to earn it themselves?

>>4128873
People used to tip because waitresses, busboys, and so on used to not have salaries. The entirety of their wages came from tips. You have a salary which is more than most can say. be happy and stfu.

>>4131111
>Everyone who has less money than me is lazy! I work hard at my dad's company! I come in four times a week and he even makes me audit inventory sometimes! It really cuts into the time I have to go on /ck/ and /s/!
>Morality? Philosophy is for stupid liberals who want to take my money and give it to those dumb poor people! Fuck that!

>>4131117
Wrong.

>>4131122
Look, I can ad hominem too!

>I don't want to be responsible for not having a clue how to manage my money and spending way more than I could afford on my way to getting my degree in women's studies, and now I can't get a job to pay it back, so those damn business people should have to give up some of theirs so that I can pursue my chosen career in a useless field!

>>4131130
Actually, you can't.

>I wish I could be responsible for my money, but everyone of my race and or class has been disenfranchised by the minority of the U.S. which controls the wealth and therefore the political process! That's okay though, because I have access to free education which the evil gummint provides! Secondary school isn't free? Well, guess I'd better take a job or two in unskilled labor and try to work my way through a community college on par with third world countries or worse if I ever want to have a job that isn't 9-5 retail!

>Whelp, now I'm deep in debt and the purchasing power of my dollar is the same as it was in 1980, with a degree in my dream job and nothing in my pocket but debt! Uh oh, I'm sick! And I don't have insurance after having to decide between an overpriced apartment or healthcare! Looks like all of my discretionary budget for the forseeable future will go to trying to repay the highwaymen who have crafted the most expensive healthcare system in the world!

>Boy, I love supply side economics! It really helps me have equal opportunity as a good for nothing brat born into wealth who received an extremely good education, allowing him access to jobs I might have more experience in but he has a diploma from an Ivy League school for! That's alright, maybe if I'm lucky I can claw my way up to the middle class if the GOP hasn't destroyed it by then!

>>4131147
>everyone of my race and or class has been disenfranchised
a black man is president, your argument is invalid

>>4131147
>Implying success is determined by being born with money
Because no rich people started off without money, right? Oh wait...

>>4131158
thats right and also no rich people have never gone poor either. stupid republicans!

>>4131158
>implying they didn't have to work harder than some daddy's boy born into money
>implying the odds weren't against them
>implying equal opportunity
This is what republitards actually believe.

>>4131252
if you are ignorant to believe that most wealthy people are born into money then there is no hope for you.
no I suppose those immigrants that bust their asses and send their kids to medical school don't exist?
I suppose scholarship programs for people that show promise and work hard in academics or athletics don't exist?
I guess there are no such privately funded programs that help to train people born into difficult situations to better themselves?

facts are facts, some people are smarter than others and they are the ones that will succeed more in life, deal with it. obviously you have never been poor the way I have or you wouldn't be so condescending to think that people who came from a bad situation, my situation (a low income single parent home) are incapable of becoming productive, successful people and you would understand how easily attainable a comfortable middle class life is and the people that do not transcend their original means are doing it as a choice, because they prefer their situation to actually working hard. you actually sicken me.

I work in a grocery store. I see lots of EBT customers. Today, I had a customer spend $10 on some Krispy Kreme donuts and a 6pack of glass bottle cokes. Guess what he used! That's right! He used all tax paying citizen's money to buy sugar!

The needless spending will be there regardless of which party is in office. Those retards that we elect keep trying to throw bandaids on a cut fucking artery. In order to fix our problems, we have to cut spending by a shitload and raise taxes by a shitload.

I mad. I mad that I'm getting fucked over. You should be too.

>>4131259
>hurr durr if you aren't rich that means you're lazy and stupid
This is what republitards actually believe to feel better about their retarded convictions.

>>4129089

>strict budget
>eat out
>plan to not tip
>pay for printed cards that says why you're not tipping

I feel sorry for him, he's so poor.

>>4131252
>>4131276

You're wonderful at debating your stance. Which year of high school did you decide to drop out?

I don't mind tipping. I just hate it when you fuckin restaurant leeches expect a certain amount. Be grateful for what I give you and don't stomp away with a pout face and a god damn attitude. It's even great when you're black and you're automatically expected not to tip. Like, I was gonna tip you because I always tip. But you assume I'm not gonna tip you so fuck you. Thus the cycle continues.

>>4131259
Facts are facts, some people have better starting conditions than others and don't have to be nearly as smart or work nearly as hard to get rich. Deny it all you want.
>think that people who came from a bad situation are incapable of becoming productive, successful people
Nobody said that, you fucking moron.

>>4131296
Nice ad hominem, bro. Sadly, it has more value than any of your other "points".

>>4129089
I make less than 15,000. I live on my own
inb4 lives with parents

I still tip when appropriate, you piece of shit.

I tip 1$ because that is all the service is worth.

15-20%? Maybe for a coffee.

Get over yourselves service fags. Nobody even likes you. Learn to do something more valuable than carry food.

Complaining about tips? Must be poor as shit.

>>4131310
>only tips $1
>calls others poor

>>4131315

I wish someone gave me a dollar every time I did my fucking job.

>>4129872
8/10 should have misspelt "scientific"

>>4131299
goddamnit. all the people in these threads who post about poor people are rich. and all the people who post in these threads about rich people are poor. this just confirms the lack of existence of the middle class.

>>4131330
Don't you get paid?

Been in Taiwan for 4 months.

Haven't had to tip once. It's amazing. They don't bother you while you're eating either. I don't want a fucking relationship with my server.

I'm an American, and I have woken up.

>>4131348
no

>>4131264

There's nothing worse than a cashier that comes on the internet to bitch about what other people decide to buy with their money, EBT or not. Does it ruin your day that much? The government does far worse things with 'your' tax dollars that go unreported.

>>4131370
I'm not a cashier. Am -I- allowed to complain, oh great one?

>>4131345
Piss off and go to cuba, venesuela, or north korea, they'll appreciate your insights there.

>>4131395
>Implying everyone in the Western Hemisphere who can doesn't travel to Cuba for free healthcare and subsidized pharmaceuticals.
>Implying Venezuela doesn't sell oil at cost to fund the neighbors that America buttfucks regularly.

>>4131393

You're not the one that scans other people's groceries and puts them in bags. So no, I don't think this applies to you.

>>4131259
>Actually buying GOP rhetoric that hard work=success.
>Is too stupid to realize the American dream has faded as the wage disparity has grown while spending power stagnates.
>Thinks that everyone actually has equal opportunity to succeed.
>Probably believes in Friedman, Thatcher, and a god.
>My face when

Shiggity diggity

>>4131413
>"free" healthcare

This is what liberals actually believe. You know who paid for that health care? All those poor Florida Cubans who no longer have the factories and casinos that they built in the Bautista era.