/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>19685836
Fake and gay

>>19685836
Ancient Chinese medicine tier
i.e. complete horseshit

>>19685836
I think a lot of it is woo woo but there's probably a grain of truth hidden in there somewhere.

Stupid. It's just taking advantage of people who foolishly think that they can be exempt from the systems; that if they look hard enough, they'll find the "way out".

>>19685836
herbs deal with the symptoms, not the disease itself
aka: use it to deal with a headache but dont expect it to cure fucking cancer

IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN DUDE
CRACK AND SNIFFING GLUE

>>19685838
>>19685846
>>19685849
>>19685884
>>19685945
don't you people realize lots of modern medicine is derived from plants

>>19686000
just because it's derived from plants doesn't mean the plants are better.

I'd rather take 1 aspirin pill than eat a fucking slab of willow tree bark

"Rosemary" WOULD want me to get into herbalism wouldn't she? Don't fall for it!

>>19686023
you mean to tell me capsules are a convenient method of delivering medicine? thanks for the insight, no one else figured that out.

wrap it up homeopathic medicine, this guy discovered convenience.

>>19686000
trips of godly truth

>>19686056
homeopathy is complete bunk

>>19686000
I'm deeply offended that you thought an argument this poor would work on me

>>19686094
meaningless statement. "bunk" is institutionalist redditfag terminology.

conclusion: this poster is FULLY vaccinated. he'll be embarrassed to even admit it, watch.

>>19686108
you brain damaged or something? seek help

>>19686138
called it!
>he'll be embarrassed to even admit it, watch.

booster season is coming! chopchop vaxxie!

>>19686056
You say this as if it is not unironically 100% accurate

it's like nootropics but with less codecels but somehow gayer
at least with nootropics it's all about finding the drugs that actually do work but are legal to buy without a prescription like phenibut or that can be bought from shady indian websites like modafinil

>>19685836
I want to make an alchemy game based on modern herbalism but I have neither the skills or connections to do so.

>>19686023
yeah rot your liver too, why don't you

>>19685836

there are plenty of herbs with chemical compounds that do all sorts of medicinal stuff. Will they be as effective as pharma drugs? No, but people used medicinal herbs for thousands of years. For example a ton of herbs that go into traditional curry have antiparasitic/antimicrobial properties.

>>19686184
>unless something is approved and pushed by hundred billion dollar pharmaceutical conglomerates it's not possible for it to be useful
>convenience and popularity are my only metrics for the validity of something
this is why we call you NPCs. Sad!

>>19686334
there's also the potential benefit of NOT taking pharmaceuticals with various side effects, immediate and long-term, known and unknown. I bet a lot more people could benefit from cutting things out of their diet and consumption (Taleb calls this "via negativa") than adding any pharmaceutical chemical to their daily life.

>>19685836
I alwaycsu keep in cubboard mix of herbal tea for "healing cough."
It is great when you feel like shit with cold and constantly spit out mucus because it works literally like laxative for lungs.
I cought up things that accidentally went down wrong hole half a year ago.

>>19686376
Many natural herbs also known to have assorted negative side effects too, and there is probably a lot less effort going into finding currently unknown side effects. After all there are plenty of class action lawyers looking to get a nice payday from the big pharma companies for when some nasty side effect gets past testing. And of course, you really have to be careful on where you get your herbs; stuff on the shelves may have the usual chinese heavy metal contamination.

goyimniggercattle really do be thinkin that pills made out of gasoline are healthier than the plants the gods invented for us baka

>>19686444
>After all there are plenty of class action lawyers looking to get a nice payday from the big pharma companies for when some nasty side effect gets past testing.
that's a stretch. thousands of years of traditional use and folk knowledge vs <5 years of trials with a profit incentive to minimize negative effects. look at how much testing the clotshot got before everyone was encouraged to take it. for a virus that barely affected most people. there's a zero percent chance anything like that would happen with herbal medicine. aren't we BARELY discovering that aspirin can cause liver issues long-term?

avoid chinese stuff for sure though

There's multiple schools of herbalism some are backed by science others by tradition and others still by nothing but faith. The only real problem with herbal medicine is the difficulty in maintaining a consistent dose.

>>19686000
but I don't have any opium plants within 100 miles of me

>>19686592
just grow some

>>19686592
The dried pods at craft stores/etsy for flower arranging are still viable for extraction if one is so inclined.

>>19686486
>there's a zero percent chance anything like that would happen with herbal medicine
My guy, naturopaths are 90% professional grifters who will tell you eating mint by the pound will help detoxify the pharma demons making your chakras cry. It attracts snake oil salesman because it's so difficult to actually approve that any of those herbs actually work or don't work.
>oh, Random Herbs in a Jar #1 didn't cure your vague sense of impending doom? Random Herbs in a Jar #2 will certainly work then, your symptoms must be caused by an overstresses liver instead of an overactive spleen.
>repeat until patient randomly feels better
>sell them whatever concoction """"worked""""
>profit

>>19686805
the argument you're hearing:
>you should always pick homoepathic and herbal supplements and everyone who offers them is more credible and knowledgeable than any pharmaceutical-bought doctor in all situations and at all times

the argument being made:
>you should be skeptical of big pharma's profit motives and avoid putting anything in your body that you don't need. if you have an ailment that isn't especially serious, you should first try to fix your diet and lifestyle habits to see if the ailment is relieved. if not, then move to natural remedies and see if they help, viewing pharmaceutical dependence as an undesirable outcome if it can otherwise be avoided

it's not as black and white as you want it to be. you shouldn't be so sensitive to skepticism about pharmaceuticals after the clotshot fiasco. check your institutional biases.

>>19686805
You really like conflating practices, huh?

>>19686829
You said there was a zero percent chance of an herbalist pushing a cure with minimal understanding of side effacts or evidence that it works (like the covid vaccine). That is wildly untrue, and is how the majority of them operate.

>>19686954
I wasn't referring to any individual treatment or vouching for all possible herbal products, but the idea that you can treat your ailment with universally available herbs, in contrast with a top-down state-enforced pharmaceutical treatment that wasn't even tested before it was pushed

>>19687119
If your arguement was
>there is a zero percent chance the government will push a specific herb on you without understanding the risks
Then yes, you are correct. I could just as easily say there is a zero percent chance that the government will push unicycle riding, crocheting, or dueling on the populace.
Or are you just moving goalposts because you realize you made a bone-headed statement about herbalists always knowing what theyre talking about and always having honest intentions and always having the best of their customers in mind?

>>19685836
herbs are good for keeping you healthy but they won't fix any problems like modern medicine.
>>19686000
also this. Doesn't mean the plant itself would work for the same thing, I think the homeopathy people get confused about this point.

>>19686056
>Homeopathic

The way I got taught what homeopathic is, is that the less active ingredient there is, the stronger the medicine becomes, which is horseshit.

If you're talking about taking natural active ingredients, like say some ginger and lemon into hot water to drink as a tea, then I'm on board.

>>19688587
Shut up homeo

>>19685836
completly valid branch of medicine, basis for modern medicine.

>>19688286
>Or are you just moving goalposts because you realize you made a bone-headed statement about herbalists always knowing what theyre talking about and always having honest intentions and always having the best of their customers in mind?
It's the opposite, you realized your institutionalist perspective had no weight to it and couldn't be defended in an argument so you went on a tangent about snake oil salesmen and pretended my argument was that they don't exist. I could have worded my argument better, but you're ignoring the substance of my argument, which is not
>all herbal medicines are always good and no one selling them is a scammer

That's a convenient strawman for you to reject my broader point about pharmaceutical dependence and the centuries if not millennia-long vetting of herbal remedies. Remember, this discussion is in the context of an "herbalism" thread with the OP image being a book about the subject that presumably tells you how to do it yourself, meaning your non sequitur about scammers was the ACTUAL bad faith argument.

Again: pharmaceutical dependence should be an absolute last resort. The comparison isn't "herbalist scammer products vs pharmaceutical products", and no one was discussing that except you. You can back down now and apologize for missing my point.

>>19689353
>I could have worded my argument better
Then we agree.

>>19685836
chamomile is my favorite

>>19689795
I think I made a few typos too, you should go find them and make really insightful posts about it.

>>19685836
Does it have a cure for type 1 diabetes?

>>19685836
It's cool. I think some of it is probably better than the shit pharmacies pump out, but if you have a serious issue seek legitimate medical help

Alright I tried shitloads of herbs and plants for effects, and these are the ones that have an effect that i tried:
>opium poppies
>kava kava
>damiana
>blue lotus
>San Pedro cacti
>Salvia
>amanita muscaria
>psilocybe mushrooms
>Kratom
>coffee, tea, that gross south American shit
>betelnut
>tobacco
>cannabis
>chamomile

All those other random herbs basically do fuck all (valerian, lemon balm, catnip, galangal, etc).

Oh BTW almost none of these drugs that do have effects are worth taking regularly. Most aren't even worth trying.

>>19685836
>forward by Rosemary
conflict of interest

>>19690079
Why bother, there's zero percent chance you make any errors, right?

As someone who is Chinese, who grew up reading Lord of the Rings/playing video games and who has a father who got into foraging/bushcraft later in life, I would like it to be true
I would go hiking on the few days my dad had off and he would out the names of different herbs and trees which he learnt during his Uni days
That's fun
It's fun to imagine that all of these herbs have different uses and that some could even heal
Yet I think it's completely delusional
I wish the government would ground all of this nonsense into dust, it shouldn't be allowed to exist

>>19691035

>>19685836
They can have genuine effects but basically always very mild to the point where it does almost nothing in most cases.

>>19691325
China provides an interesting case where they actually systematically tested a large number of plants to see if they actually worked. Back in the late 1960s, the Chinese Army decided it wanted a malaria treatment that was not dependant on western imports. So as part of their research project (called Project 523) they cracked open a bunch of older texts on traditional Chinese malaria treatments, and tested over a thousand remedies. They discovered 1 plant extract, from sweet wormwood, that was both effective & safe enough to use, another plant plant extract that was effective against malaria but had toxicity issues ( Dichroa febrifuga), and the rest turned out to be useless. So yeah, great medicine can home out of traditional remedies, but you need to actually test shit. And even plants with a long history of use, like that Dichroa febrifuga, can have nasty side effects when you concentrate the active ingredients to the level needed to be effective medicine.

>>19691253
>there's zero percent chance you make any errors, right?
You would think so because my argumentation is so strong, but even someone like me can make little mistakes sometimes. Still awaiting your substantial insights into pharmaceutical dependence.

>>19691026
>that gross south American shit
take it easy on dem yerba mates now

>>19691325
The problem with chinese herbalism is that a lot of it may have medicinal uses but often come at the cost of long-term toxicity which won't be easily attributed to whatever herb that's being used unless you run longitudinal randomized control trials.
Same thing with avurvedic medicine. Like, yeah, ashwagandha has some (mild) benefits but what about that hepatotoxicity that it ALSO comes with.

>>19693786
l-theanine supplements are based though

>>19685836
im herbalized right now OP, was smokin on some of that green shit

It goes well with Alchemy.
It's how I made enough for a mount in classic

>placebo effect implies that your body can totally just fucking heal anything if it wanted

>>19695568
the brain is not understood by the medical world at all. it really is a case of mind over matter

>>19695568
Yes.

>>19691026
Redpill me on damiana

>>19691026
Redpill me on damiana and blue lotus. I've tried about half of those and am aware of the existence of the rest of them

>>19691026
>galangal

What exactly where you expecting to get from SEA alt ginger besides a tasty stir fry exactly?

>>19685836
I think its pretty neat actually. There are lots of cool applications for common plants and herbs you can use to treat mild ailments. Id like do some more studying so I can identify more plants and things that are out there innawoods. I wouldnt recommend most of it over modern medicine but its cool stuff to know if the world collapses or I choose to go full mountain hermit and never see anyone again.

>>19692827
Nigger just admit that many herbalists push unproven and untested cures onto people. Most what you said I agree with, but to claim that every herbalist is the epitomy of medical ethics is fucking stupid and you know it.

>>19685836
i like reading about historical herbalism, like ancient greek/roman stuff. pretty fascinating stuff

>>19685846
>>19685884
>>19686023
You can cure cancer by fasting on grapes. Look up The Grape Cure by Johanna Brandt.
Every remedy can be found in nature.
Glory to the Gods and glory to Mother Earth.

herbal-ACK!

>>19685836
hippy pussy is good pussy, a bit smelly though